Because she's not a male...no matter how much you would want to be one . You can't always have it your way.
So from here out I now identify myself as a bear .Sure I could wear a fur coat and live in woods. But that doesn't make me one! I wouldn't last 24 hours...
Because she's not a male...no matter how much you would want to be one . You can't always have it your way.
So from here out I now identif… morey myself as a bear .Sure I could wear a fur coat and live in woods. But that doesn't make me one! I wouldn't last 24 hours...
The doctors have diagnosed her with having gender dysphoria.(a medical condition characterized by distress stemming from conflict between a person's gender identity and the person's assigned sex at birth.)
so what the fuck does she/he (whatever the fuck) look like?? if it looks like a guy go to the guys restroom. look like a girl go to the girls restroom. since people get weird about it going into both bathrooms..
so what the fuck does she/he (whatever the fuck) look like?? if it looks like a guy go to the guys restroom. look like a girl go to the girls restroom. since people get weird about it going into both bathrooms..
I don't know, it's up to them to say if they're comfortable with it or not, I just said that if the majority was to turn something down, the minority needs to respect that, and not demand a change that would impact the many for the few.
Why should they feel uncomfortable with it though? When they go to the bathroom they go to do their own business, not worry about other peoples business.
Is that really all that matters? Honestly, in my opinion that's simply enabling delusion. I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and say "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that. Altering your appearance to look more like the opposite sex doesn't change this.
The school didn't need to blow the situation with the transgendered individual using the 'wrong' toilets out of proportion and unnecessarily enforce the stigma in the school. Unless there were harassment and life threats involved, leave them be.
And the transgendered individual didn't need to go as far as to sue to school over the incident. It'll only end up making their reputation worse, along with what they stand for.
Had both parties handled this issue with some common sense, none of this would have happened.
Is that really all that matters? Honestly, in my opinion that's simply enabling delusion. I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and sa… morey "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that. Altering your appearance to look more like the opposite sex doesn't change this.
You think that a transgender mindset is a deluded one? Why is that exactly, does your reasoning go beyond "Well they weren't born female, so how can they be female"? (Honest inquiry, I've been on the fence about the subject for some time now and haven't found real convincing arguments for one way or the other.)
Is that really all that matters? Honestly, in my opinion that's simply enabling delusion. I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and sa… morey "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that. Altering your appearance to look more like the opposite sex doesn't change this.
..it was kind of a terrible way to make that point, just spreads around a wrong message honestly.
You were kind of unnecessarily jumping to conclusions, and so would anyone else who thought I was actually implying that transgender individuals have their feelings literally changed over night. I thought it was a pretty blatant hypothetical to make a simple illustration of my viewpoint. No need for people to take it the wrong way.
I do think the mindset is deluded, because I don't think any amount of mentally deciding that you're something that you're not should make the viewpoint real/ legit. This is obviously more of an extreme example, but if someone were to mentally decide that they are a tiger, that doesn't mean they need to be recognized as a tiger. It's one thing for these people to be unhappy with what sex they are, it's another to pretend that they are something that they are not. I should add that having a sex change doesn't change this in my opinion. While you can legally be considered a member of the opposite sex, I consider that nothing more than a masking of what you truthfully are.
You think that a transgender mindset is a deluded one? Why is that exactly, does your reasoning go beyond "Well they weren't born female, so… more how can they be female"? (Honest inquiry, I've been on the fence about the subject for some time now and haven't found real convincing arguments for one way or the other.)
I do think the mindset is deluded, because I don't think any amount of mentally deciding that you're something that you're not should make t… morehe viewpoint real/ legit. This is obviously more of an extreme example, but if someone were to mentally decide that they are a tiger, that doesn't mean they need to be recognized as a tiger. It's one thing for these people to be unhappy with what sex they are, it's another to pretend that they are something that they are not. I should add that having a sex change doesn't change this in my opinion. While you can legally be considered a member of the opposite sex, I consider that nothing more than a masking of what you truthfully are.
Do you think that not allowing a transexual into a restroom that is not intended for their sex, solely, will cause them to commit suicide?
No, but I think it's a contributing factor. If your school, and by extension your government, says that you're not a real man, it's going to fucking hurt.
Again I don't know where you're getting this argument about them using their original sex bathroom. Are you trying to strawman, or is it accidental?
You're the one who brought up the dichotomy. Ignoring that, you're essentially arguing that every business and public space should have at least four washrooms. That's going to cost money, and I don't think it's worth it.
Do you think that not allowing a transexual into a restroom that is not intended for their sex, solely, will cause them to commit suicide? A… moressuaging such trivialities is largely inconsiquential in the grand scheme. Overall acceptance should be worked towards sure, but not in cases were purposeful division of sex is the entire point.
Why do people keep saying they shouldn't have to use the bathroom appropriate for their birth sex? I never said they should, and I don't support that.
The kind thing to do is to reinforce the idea that there is nothing wrong with transexuals while still maintaining the separation of the sexes where it is implimented.
No, I don't need to admit that. Because what you are making is a false dichotomy, wherein transexuals are either male or female and therefore there should be only two, one male and one female, bathrooms. Even in a dichotomous species there are outliers. They are different, and deserve their o… [view original content]
I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and say "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that.
Well, it's a good thing that's not how it works at all. No one just wakes up one morning to find that they're not the right gender. It's a problem that presents itself early in life, that most people struggle for years to repress.
Is that really all that matters? Honestly, in my opinion that's simply enabling delusion. I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and sa… morey "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that. Altering your appearance to look more like the opposite sex doesn't change this.
Don't mean to offend
No worries.
..it was kind of a terrible way to make that point, just spreads around a wrong message hones… moretly.
You were kind of unnecessarily jumping to conclusions, and so would anyone else who thought I was actually implying that transgender individuals have their feelings literally changed over night. I thought it was a pretty blatant hypothetical to make a simple illustration of my viewpoint. No need for people to take it the wrong way.
.. I wasn't saying that this mentality is generated over night. I seriously didn't imply that anywhere, and it has nothing to do with the point that I was making.
I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and say "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go … moreinto women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that.
Well, it's a good thing that's not how it works at all. No one just wakes up one morning to find that they're not the right gender. It's a problem that presents itself early in life, that most people struggle for years to repress.
.. I wasn't saying that this mentality is generated over night. I seriously didn't imply that anywhere, and it has nothing to do with the point that I was making.
I really would hope that I don't have to repeat it much more. I wish people would be more interested in discussing the actual point instead of trying to add something to my post that I never said or implied.
What harm does it do to "play along"? Even if you're correct and a transgender person is trying to live out something that could never possibly be real, does it harm you in any way to make them feel happier by pretending? I can see if it was detrimental in some way that you would reject the notion, but them playing dress up doesn't effect you in any other way than a raised eyebrow.
I do think the mindset is deluded, because I don't think any amount of mentally deciding that you're something that you're not should make t… morehe viewpoint real/ legit. This is obviously more of an extreme example, but if someone were to mentally decide that they are a tiger, that doesn't mean they need to be recognized as a tiger. It's one thing for these people to be unhappy with what sex they are, it's another to pretend that they are something that they are not. I should add that having a sex change doesn't change this in my opinion. While you can legally be considered a member of the opposite sex, I consider that nothing more than a masking of what you truthfully are.
I shouldn't have to imply that I didn't mean it in that way. Either I said what you thought I said, or I didn't. That's all there is to it. Again, you rushed to conclusions in thinking that my hypothetical example was how I perceived transexuals as a whole.
Anyway, I've clarified the intention of my post. We can probably move on now.
You were kind of unnecessarily jumping to conclusions
Not really unnecessary considering your wording in your first post, no where in it did you actually imply that you didn't mean it that way.
I shouldn't have to imply that I didn't mean it in that way. Either I said what you thought I said, or I didn't. That's all there is to it. … moreAgain, you rushed to conclusions in thinking that my hypothetical example was how I perceived transexuals as a whole.
Anyway, I've clarified the intention of my post. We can probably move on now.
We really don't need to still be having this discussion. I'm guessing that you didn't catch my edit, so I'll just say again that either I said what you thought I said, or I didn't. You're the one who rushed to conclusions and tried to apply something to my post that needed not be applied. Nowhere in my post did I state or imply that transexuals become the way that they are overnight. I would assume you arrived to that initial thought simply because of your stance on the topic, which may have caused a little bit of defensiveness on your part.
I shouldn't have to imply that I didn't mean it in that way.
Yes you should though.
Either I said what you thought I said, or … moreI didn't. That's all there is to it.
Yes, and having that clarified would be better than having me reply to you in the first place, no?
They are saying that they are different, because they are. Inarguably so. As I said above, fostering overall acceptance is important, but not where purposeful division of the sexes is implimented.
Dichotomy was in reference to your comparison to the black struggle. Sex and race are not the same thing (which is why I mentioned our dichotomic stance as a species, which is fact). It had absolutely nothing to do with my stance on the subject, only your incompatible comparison.
Another bathroom is not that costly, it would be located next to the others so it would already have all of the plumbing necessities at hand and it wouldn't need to be large. Why is a third bathroom too much to ask for? Many places already have one for handicap accessibility.
Do you think that not allowing a transexual into a restroom that is not intended for their sex, solely, will cause them to commit suicide?
… more
No, but I think it's a contributing factor. If your school, and by extension your government, says that you're not a real man, it's going to fucking hurt.
Again I don't know where you're getting this argument about them using their original sex bathroom. Are you trying to strawman, or is it accidental?
You're the one who brought up the dichotomy. Ignoring that, you're essentially arguing that every business and public space should have at least four washrooms. That's going to cost money, and I don't think it's worth it.
You're the one who rushed to conclusions and tried to apply something to my post that needed not be applied.
I didn't rush to any conclusion, it was your wording, let's not forget.
Nowhere in my post did I state or imply that transexuals become the way that they are overnight.
Except you pretty much did, by saying " "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that." that's basically you using that as an example of how things go for transsexuals.
tried to apply something to my post that needed not be applied.
And why does it not need to be applied? Is clarification a bad thing?
We really don't need to still be having this discussion. I'm guessing that you didn't catch my edit, so I'll just say again that either I sa… moreid what you thought I said, or I didn't. You're the one who rushed to conclusions and tried to apply something to my post that needed not be applied. Nowhere in my post did I state or imply that transexuals become the way that they are overnight. I would assume you arrived to that initial thought simply because of your stance on the topic, which may have caused a little bit of defensiveness on your part.
I really would hope that I don't have to repeat it much more. I wish people would be more interested in discussing the actual point instead of trying to add something to my post that I never said or implied.
I really would hope that I don't have to repeat it much more. I wish people would be more interested in discussing the actual point instead of trying to add something to my post that I never said or implied.
I didn't rush to any conclusion, it was your wording, let's not forget.
You did though. In my "wording" I never actually said "transexuals become the way that they are overnight". I'm sorry that you were confused by my hypothetical, but you can't look at anything that I originally said there and logically conclude that I was stating anything about transexuals adopting their mentalities overnight. There is nothing real to base that on. If you actually look at the point of the post you can see that I was simply illustrating why it can be ridiculous to justify how transexuals should be perceived by looking at how they personally view themselves. I don't know how you could possibly understand the point of my post and not understand that I was using a completely random, hypothetical scenario. Aside from straight up saying that I was speaking hypothetically, I couldn't have been more clear.
that's basically you using that as an example of how things go for transsexuals.
No, it isn't at all. That's again you applying something to my post that did not need to be applied.
And why does it not need to be applied? Is clarification a bad thing?
It isn't. If you ever misunderstand my post, I'm all for clarifying it to you... but that doesn't mean that I did a "terrible" job explaining myself simply because you failed to understand. Nothing wrong in not being on the same page, it happens
You're the one who rushed to conclusions and tried to apply something to my post that needed not be applied.
I didn't rush to any co… morenclusion, it was your wording, let's not forget.
Nowhere in my post did I state or imply that transexuals become the way that they are overnight.
Except you pretty much did, by saying " "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that." that's basically you using that as an example of how things go for transsexuals.
tried to apply something to my post that needed not be applied.
And why does it not need to be applied? Is clarification a bad thing?
. Aside from straight up saying that I speaking hypothetically
You said that after the first post was made, I was going off of the first post which if most people were to look at would conclude it to you actually meaning what you said in your hypothetical situation.
It isn't. If you didn't understand my post, I'm all for clarifying it to you... but that doesn't mean that I did a "terrible" job explaining myself simply because you failed to understand.
I don't think you actually understand what I'm talking about though. It's not a matter of me not understanding, it's a matter of how you said it. Just by looking at your first post, I quote "I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and say "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" " is 100% saying that Transsexuals just wake up one day and call themselves/ proceed to do things the opposite gender does out of nowhere. This is why clarification was needed, unless you're looking for people to get the wrong message, which I doubt you are.
I didn't rush to any conclusion, it was your wording, let's not forget.
You did though. In my "wording" I never actually said "trans… moreexuals become the way that they are overnight". I'm sorry that you were confused by my hypothetical, but you can't look at anything that I originally said there and logically conclude that I was stating anything about transexuals adopting their mentalities overnight. There is nothing real to base that on. If you actually look at the point of the post you can see that I was simply illustrating why it can be ridiculous to justify how transexuals should be perceived by looking at how they personally view themselves. I don't know how you could possibly understand the point of my post and not understand that I was using a completely random, hypothetical scenario. Aside from straight up saying that I was speaking hypothetically, I couldn't have been more clear.
that's basically you using that as an exampl… [view original content]
Comments
Oh, he still looks like a girl? I thought he might've done that surgery that gives him more masculine features.
Yeah, all he's had is hormone shots to make his voice deepen but it's still a girl to the human eye
Alright, I can see the concern and surprise guys can have because of this. It will be a hard transition for many if they allow this.
Because she's not a male...no matter how much you would want to be one . You can't always have it your way.
So from here out I now identify myself as a bear .Sure I could wear a fur coat and live in woods. But that doesn't make me one! I wouldn't last 24 hours...
Biologically, no. Mentally, yes he is a male.
The doctors have diagnosed her with having gender dysphoria.(a medical condition characterized by distress stemming from conflict between a person's gender identity and the person's assigned sex at birth.)
And that's all that matters
so what the fuck does she/he (whatever the fuck) look like?? if it looks like a guy go to the guys restroom. look like a girl go to the girls restroom. since people get weird about it going into both bathrooms..
http://news.yahoo.com/transgender-student-sues-school-citing-restroom-policy-164240097.html
It's now a total mess.
Here is pic of the girl
I don't know, it's up to them to say if they're comfortable with it or not, I just said that if the majority was to turn something down, the minority needs to respect that, and not demand a change that would impact the many for the few.
yes lets homeschool all transgendered students when they complain. great idea.
I don't think this can be defined as "bullying" what so ever.
Is that really all that matters? Honestly, in my opinion that's simply enabling delusion. I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and say "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that. Altering your appearance to look more like the opposite sex doesn't change this.
Both parties are in the wrong here.
The school didn't need to blow the situation with the transgendered individual using the 'wrong' toilets out of proportion and unnecessarily enforce the stigma in the school. Unless there were harassment and life threats involved, leave them be.
And the transgendered individual didn't need to go as far as to sue to school over the incident. It'll only end up making their reputation worse, along with what they stand for.
Had both parties handled this issue with some common sense, none of this would have happened.
It's better than forcing the entire school to accommodate your personal life choice. Even when you're out-voted .
I usually agree with you Belan, but that's actually not how it works at all. Lol.
I'm not saying that it does. I was speaking hypothetically to make a point.
Don't mean to offend but it was kind of a terrible way to make that point, just spreads around a wrong message honestly.
You think that a transgender mindset is a deluded one? Why is that exactly, does your reasoning go beyond "Well they weren't born female, so how can they be female"? (Honest inquiry, I've been on the fence about the subject for some time now and haven't found real convincing arguments for one way or the other.)
No worries.
You were kind of unnecessarily jumping to conclusions, and so would anyone else who thought I was actually implying that transgender individuals have their feelings literally changed over night. I thought it was a pretty blatant hypothetical to make a simple illustration of my viewpoint. No need for people to take it the wrong way.
I do think the mindset is deluded, because I don't think any amount of mentally deciding that you're something that you're not should make the viewpoint real/ legit. This is obviously more of an extreme example, but if someone were to mentally decide that they are a tiger, that doesn't mean they need to be recognized as a tiger. It's one thing for these people to be unhappy with what sex they are, it's another to pretend that they are something that they are not. I should add that having a sex change doesn't change this in my opinion. While you can legally be considered a member of the opposite sex, I consider that nothing more than a masking of what you truthfully are.
^
Yes! Thank you...
No, but I think it's a contributing factor. If your school, and by extension your government, says that you're not a real man, it's going to fucking hurt.
You're the one who brought up the dichotomy. Ignoring that, you're essentially arguing that every business and public space should have at least four washrooms. That's going to cost money, and I don't think it's worth it.
Well, it's a good thing that's not how it works at all. No one just wakes up one morning to find that they're not the right gender. It's a problem that presents itself early in life, that most people struggle for years to repress.
Not really unnecessary considering your wording in your first post, no where in it did you actually imply that you didn't mean it that way.
.. I wasn't saying that this mentality is generated over night. I seriously didn't imply that anywhere, and it has nothing to do with the point that I was making.
Yes but if it gets brought up over and over you might get bored of repeating yourself and then lose the debate by virtue of not replying anymore.
I really would hope that I don't have to repeat it much more. I wish people would be more interested in discussing the actual point instead of trying to add something to my post that I never said or implied.
What harm does it do to "play along"? Even if you're correct and a transgender person is trying to live out something that could never possibly be real, does it harm you in any way to make them feel happier by pretending? I can see if it was detrimental in some way that you would reject the notion, but them playing dress up doesn't effect you in any other way than a raised eyebrow.
I shouldn't have to imply that I didn't mean it in that way. Either I said what you thought I said, or I didn't. That's all there is to it. Again, you rushed to conclusions in thinking that my hypothetical example was how I perceived transexuals as a whole.
Anyway, I've clarified the intention of my post. We can probably move on now.
Yes you should though.
Yes, and having that clarified would be better than having me reply to you in the first place, no?
We really don't need to still be having this discussion. I'm guessing that you didn't catch my edit, so I'll just say again that either I said what you thought I said, or I didn't. You're the one who rushed to conclusions and tried to apply something to my post that needed not be applied. Nowhere in my post did I state or imply that transexuals become the way that they are overnight. I would assume you arrived to that initial thought simply because of your stance on the topic, which may have caused a little bit of defensiveness on your part.
They are saying that they are different, because they are. Inarguably so. As I said above, fostering overall acceptance is important, but not where purposeful division of the sexes is implimented.
Dichotomy was in reference to your comparison to the black struggle. Sex and race are not the same thing (which is why I mentioned our dichotomic stance as a species, which is fact). It had absolutely nothing to do with my stance on the subject, only your incompatible comparison.
Another bathroom is not that costly, it would be located next to the others so it would already have all of the plumbing necessities at hand and it wouldn't need to be large. Why is a third bathroom too much to ask for? Many places already have one for handicap accessibility.
I didn't rush to any conclusion, it was your wording, let's not forget.
Except you pretty much did, by saying " "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" and then proceed to go into women's restrooms/ changing rooms, ect, as if there is nothing wrong with that." that's basically you using that as an example of how things go for transsexuals.
And why does it not need to be applied? Is clarification a bad thing?
Good thing it doesn't happen like that, huh?
Fat chance of that I think.
You did though. In my "wording" I never actually said "transexuals become the way that they are overnight". I'm sorry that you were confused by my hypothetical, but you can't look at anything that I originally said there and logically conclude that I was stating anything about transexuals adopting their mentalities overnight. There is nothing real to base that on. If you actually look at the point of the post you can see that I was simply illustrating why it can be ridiculous to justify how transexuals should be perceived by looking at how they personally view themselves. I don't know how you could possibly understand the point of my post and not understand that I was using a completely random, hypothetical scenario. Aside from straight up saying that I was speaking hypothetically, I couldn't have been more clear.
No, it isn't at all. That's again you applying something to my post that did not need to be applied.
It isn't. If you ever misunderstand my post, I'm all for clarifying it to you... but that doesn't mean that I did a "terrible" job explaining myself simply because you failed to understand. Nothing wrong in not being on the same page, it happens
You said that after the first post was made, I was going off of the first post which if most people were to look at would conclude it to you actually meaning what you said in your hypothetical situation.
I don't think you actually understand what I'm talking about though. It's not a matter of me not understanding, it's a matter of how you said it. Just by looking at your first post, I quote "I shouldn't be able to just wake up one day and say "You know what.. I really feel like I identify as a woman today" " is 100% saying that Transsexuals just wake up one day and call themselves/ proceed to do things the opposite gender does out of nowhere. This is why clarification was needed, unless you're looking for people to get the wrong message, which I doubt you are.