I don't know if Athena will appear again, seeing as how her being grabbed by Brick and Mordecai was the setup for the present day events of the Pre-Sequel...........maybe she'll appear near the end of E5, after telling her story to Lilith? And all that other stuff happened?
I thought the episode was pretty awesome!
Positives:
-That intro montage of the gang traveling was so great.
-Gortys is adorable an… mored I love the friendship she has with Loader Bot.
-Loved the whole Jack-Apedia thing when scanning stuff.
-Buying outfits.
-Super awesome action.
-Super funny.
-Choices truly feel like they matter.
-Seeing the capture of Athena that leads to her telling the story of TPS back in Sanctuary.
-WE'RE HEADING TO HELIOS.
Negatives:
-Romance with Sasha felt really forced. Seemed like every dialog option was trying to nudge you into it.
-STILL NO CLAPTRAP.
-Not enough Jack. :P
Edit- I ALMOST FORGOT. My favorite part was when Jack pointed up at the "...will remember this" message and was like "What the hell was that?"
This. So much this. If the genders of Rhys and Fiona were swapped this game would be slammed for being sexist, with the male constantly out-performing the female in feats of strength and agility, so why is it deemed acceptable when it's the other way around? This is something that annoys the hell out of me - why don't people realise that it's possible to have strong and competent female characters without going to the other extreme of making the males weak/unskilled for laughs?
I think this point should be brought up more because it's just as bad as it would be if it were the other way around - surely in this modern day of equality we can move past such ridiculously out-dated attitudes. I say this because it feels like writers only do it because of old attitudes to women meaning that female characters were often presented as being inferior to males -- but doing the exact same thing 50 or 60 years later with the genders reversed is not okay! It's not cool, please stop! Sorry for the rant (half of this probably doesn't even make sense) and for such a late reply to your comment, but I think you raise a very good point.
I enjoyed the episode, but I realized one thing bugged me. With the introduction of three long-term female characters (Athena was in 2, but … moreonly barely) and Vaughn spending most of the episode paralyzed, it's becoming more than a little glaring that male characters in TFTB are buffoons, jerks, or sinister... And more often at least two out of the three at a time.
Now, don't get me wrong. Athena, Gortys, and the Queenpin are all fine additions. But the closest thing this episode has to a likable male character who gets to show competence without almost immediately getting a compensating kick in the tail is Loaderbot. And that's kind of sad. I wish the writers would wrap their heads around the idea that it's possible to have strong female characters without setting up their male counterparts for humiliation.
Rhys is not that incapable, it's not like he is a dumb fancy boy whose only skill is to look, sound and essentially be ridiculous, there are even times where he and Vaughn outsmart the two girls, if you think about it . But Rhys for all his life has been used to the comforts of a space station, while Fiona and Sasha had to struggle for every day of their lives, so I think that it's pretty obvious that they are more capable in surviving than the boys. Also, it's a comedy, it's supposed to make us laugh and enjoy the adventure, if the main protagonists were perfect, that would be a bit harder to achieve.
This. So much this. If the genders of Rhys and Fiona were swapped this game would be slammed for being sexist, with the male constantly out-… moreperforming the female in feats of strength and agility, so why is it deemed acceptable when it's the other way around? This is something that annoys the hell out of me - why don't people realise that it's possible to have strong and competent female characters without going to the other extreme of making the males weak/unskilled for laughs?
I think this point should be brought up more because it's just as bad as it would be if it were the other way around - surely in this modern day of equality we can move past such ridiculously out-dated attitudes. I say this because it feels like writers only do it because of old attitudes to women meaning that female characters were often presented as being inferior to males -- but doing the exact same thing 50 or 60 years later with the genders reversed is not okay… [view original content]
You can't be serious. Rhys' character was just radiating coolnes in two episodes in a row - to the point where people started to question what is that Fiona even doing there, because she wasn't doing much. All that thanks to three facts 1. Rhys was very likeable in the first episode plus the episode started with him 2. he's Hyperion and that alone made him interesting 3. as if it wasn't enough, he had Handsome AI in him. And now in just that one episode she was doing better, I guess it's only fair and it's her turn to shine.
why don't people realise that it's possible to have strong and competent female characters without going to the other extreme of making the males weak/unskilled for laughs?
I think you're overestimating Fiona here and underestimating Rhys. The way I see it, they're very much alike and they're equal. They're both ambitious, smart but they're both incompetent af.
This. So much this. If the genders of Rhys and Fiona were swapped this game would be slammed for being sexist, with the male constantly out-… moreperforming the female in feats of strength and agility, so why is it deemed acceptable when it's the other way around? This is something that annoys the hell out of me - why don't people realise that it's possible to have strong and competent female characters without going to the other extreme of making the males weak/unskilled for laughs?
I think this point should be brought up more because it's just as bad as it would be if it were the other way around - surely in this modern day of equality we can move past such ridiculously out-dated attitudes. I say this because it feels like writers only do it because of old attitudes to women meaning that female characters were often presented as being inferior to males -- but doing the exact same thing 50 or 60 years later with the genders reversed is not okay… [view original content]
Do you know what else the males and females have dividing them?
Their home planets.
So yeah of course Rhys, Vaughn and Vasquez are going to appear less competent - they are completely out of their depth - whereas characters like Fiona, Sasha and Vallory have dealt with Pandora's day-to-day craziness presumably their whole lives.
I imagine if Yvette was on Pandora she'd be struggling just as much (perhaps even more, as those killer right-angle heels would be a bitch to walk in the sand with).
Maybe when we get to Helios the roles will be changed and their perceived 'badassery' just won't cut it and it'll be the guy's time to shine?
This. So much this. If the genders of Rhys and Fiona were swapped this game would be slammed for being sexist, with the male constantly out-… moreperforming the female in feats of strength and agility, so why is it deemed acceptable when it's the other way around? This is something that annoys the hell out of me - why don't people realise that it's possible to have strong and competent female characters without going to the other extreme of making the males weak/unskilled for laughs?
I think this point should be brought up more because it's just as bad as it would be if it were the other way around - surely in this modern day of equality we can move past such ridiculously out-dated attitudes. I say this because it feels like writers only do it because of old attitudes to women meaning that female characters were often presented as being inferior to males -- but doing the exact same thing 50 or 60 years later with the genders reversed is not okay… [view original content]
It's funny that me and most of my friends didn't get that Jack 4 wall breaking joke at first. I've seen some let's plays too and none of the players laughed at that joke. I guess we are just too used to see those "x will remember that" things
Do you know what else the males and females have dividing them?
Their home planets.
So yeah of course Rhys, Vaughn and Vasquez are goi… moreng to appear less competent - they are completely out of their depth - whereas characters like Fiona, Sasha and Vallory have dealt with Pandora's day-to-day craziness presumably their whole lives.
I imagine if Yvette was on Pandora she'd be struggling just as much (perhaps even more, as those killer right-angle heels would be a bitch to walk in the sand with).
Maybe when we get to Helios the roles will be changed and their perceived 'badassery' just won't cut it and it'll be the guy's time to shine?
I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Yvette.
She strikes me as a bit of a ditz, at least when it comes to lunch ( in particular the comment where Rhys says that Vasquez will pay and she thinks he's talking about him paying for lunch) - the girl has a one track mind, she probably thinks the Vault will be full of sandwiches and Gortys is just a glorified toaster!
Yeah, I can easily see that, and I can hardly wait for Jack's comments about her. Something like "Ah yeah, I I knew a girl like her once. had her choke on all the goddamn food I could find on Helios, and I tell ya, I really enjoyed the show.
I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Yvette.
She strikes me as a bit of a ditz, at least when it comes to lunch ( in particular t… morehe comment where Rhys says that Vasquez will pay and she thinks he's talking about him paying for lunch) - the girl has a one track mind, she probably thinks the Vault will be full of sandwiches and Gortys is just a glorified toaster!
Maybe for you, but My Rhys has been nothing but an asshole to her since the beginning. There was definitely no chemistry between them in E1 for me.
I really don't mind there being a romance in this game, but like I said in my above post, my issue is how every dialog option turned out sounding romantic. It felt like they were trying to force you into liking her, even if you didn't want to. And that's not something I wanted in my canon playthrough.
Still, not like it was a huge deal. I just found it mildly annoying, is all.
In most of the instances where Rhys gets to be successful, it's because of technology and resources, not skill or character. It's cybernetics, Handsome Jack, or Loaderbot. Aside from things that come of those advantages, it's never implied that there's anything he does that Fiona or Sasha couldn't, and possibly better, were they in position to do so. Fiona pulls a scam on both hardened criminals and the largest corporation on Pandora that only fails because of an accident. Then she holds off two hardened criminals multiple times all by herself- in one case, armed with one bullet. When Rhys gets betrayed, he stays on the disadvantage until someone else intervenes; when Fiona is betrayed, she almost immediately gets an opportunity either for revenge or to show she's the better person. When Fiona and Athena have a character and relationship-building conversation, it's taken more or less straight; when Rhys and Vaughn do the same, it disintegrates into a "bro" joke. (And yes, it was kind of a funny joke; still, it highlights the way the characters are treated- not by the circumstances, but by the writers.) Fiona gets to rise to challenges; Rhys gets to panic when faced with adversity.
And yes, Rhys and Vaughn are basically corporate flunkies and Fiona and Sasha are hardscrabble grifters yatta yatta yatta. Rhys and Vaughn have also been on Pandora for long enough now, and encountered enough "color", to stop being caught flat-footed every time the planet and its inhabitants take a turn for the worse.
Whenever there's a question about whether someone is of value, it's Fiona who's being asked it, and frequently, at Rhys and Vaughn's expense.
Rhys. Is. INTRODUCED. By. Being. Cold-cocked. And Fiona is introduced by... Calling Rhys a liar and kicking dirt in his face.
It's entirely possible for the game to still be funny without making so many of the jokes at their expense. It's fine for the characters to be "flawed", but really, only Rhys and Vaughn are being regularly shown up by the script for their flaws.
Rhys is not that incapable, it's not like he is a dumb fancy boy whose only skill is to look, sound and essentially be ridiculous, there are… more even times where he and Vaughn outsmart the two girls, if you think about it . But Rhys for all his life has been used to the comforts of a space station, while Fiona and Sasha had to struggle for every day of their lives, so I think that it's pretty obvious that they are more capable in surviving than the boys. Also, it's a comedy, it's supposed to make us laugh and enjoy the adventure, if the main protagonists were perfect, that would be a bit harder to achieve.
Rhys gets into panic when facing adversities? The whole final sequence of episode 3 is a chase in which Rhys has had full control of the situation without panicking, he didn't panick in the first shoot out in episode 1, he didn't panick when running away from a Rakk Hive, he didn't panick at the beginning of Episode 3, and so on. Also, Rhys is in disadvantage when he is betrayed? The only person who's betrayed him is Vaughn, and he is a friend, what should he have done? Savagely kill him so to prove that he is a badass? Fiona holds off two hardened criminals with one bullet? You mean Finch and Kroger? Those guys are two idiots, Rhys could totally outsmart them, and Fiona wasn't alone, there was Sasha with her. Rhys and Vaughn have been in Pandora for approximately more than a week, it's like saying that if I stayed in Spain for fourteen day I would behave like a Spanish. Fiona doesn't pullma scam on Hyperion, she pulls a scam on Vasquez, and that's totally different. Finally you say that Rhys' advantage consists in his cybernetics, but let's just put the case that Fiona or Sasha had access to those, they wouldn't even know how to use them, and being able to control technological devices is a hell of a perk, combine with some wits it's enough to make you valuable, at least in my book.
In most of the instances where Rhys gets to be successful, it's because of technology and resources, not skill or character. It's cybernetic… mores, Handsome Jack, or Loaderbot. Aside from things that come of those advantages, it's never implied that there's anything he does that Fiona or Sasha couldn't, and possibly better, were they in position to do so. Fiona pulls a scam on both hardened criminals and the largest corporation on Pandora that only fails because of an accident. Then she holds off two hardened criminals multiple times all by herself- in one case, armed with one bullet. When Rhys gets betrayed, he stays on the disadvantage until someone else intervenes; when Fiona is betrayed, she almost immediately gets an opportunity either for revenge or to show she's the better person. When Fiona and Athena have a character and relationship-building conversation, it's taken more or less straight; when Rhys and Vaughn do the same, it disintegrat… [view original content]
I must've missed the scenes where Zer0, Mordecai and Brick are revealed to be female. >.> And if we're counting Gortys as female, let's count Loader Bot as male, yeah? He saved everyone's arses a dozen times by now.
Plus, if Vallory counts as a badass despite being a villain, then so do August, Finch, Kroger and of course, Handsome Jack (though opinions vary on categorising him as a villain, I know). There are plenty of badass guys in TftB. Even if there weren't, there's literally four women we see being badasses: Fiona, Sasha, Vallory, Athena. That really doesn't feel excessive, especially bearing in mind that the two male heroes come from a place where corporate evil is more the go-to tactic than beating a guy repeatedly in his face. Or something.
I enjoyed the episode, but I realized one thing bugged me. With the introduction of three long-term female characters (Athena was in 2, but … moreonly barely) and Vaughn spending most of the episode paralyzed, it's becoming more than a little glaring that male characters in TFTB are buffoons, jerks, or sinister... And more often at least two out of the three at a time.
Now, don't get me wrong. Athena, Gortys, and the Queenpin are all fine additions. But the closest thing this episode has to a likable male character who gets to show competence without almost immediately getting a compensating kick in the tail is Loaderbot. And that's kind of sad. I wish the writers would wrap their heads around the idea that it's possible to have strong female characters without setting up their male counterparts for humiliation.
It's funny that me and most of my friends didn't get that Jack 4 wall breaking joke at first. I've seen some let's plays too and none of the players laughed at that joke. I guess we are just too used to see those "x will remember that" things
Comments
I don't know if Athena will appear again, seeing as how her being grabbed by Brick and Mordecai was the setup for the present day events of the Pre-Sequel...........maybe she'll appear near the end of E5, after telling her story to Lilith? And all that other stuff happened?
No way, Rhys and Sasha had really great chemistry in Episode 1 and I'm glad to see that further develop. It makes sense.
This. So much this. If the genders of Rhys and Fiona were swapped this game would be slammed for being sexist, with the male constantly out-performing the female in feats of strength and agility, so why is it deemed acceptable when it's the other way around? This is something that annoys the hell out of me - why don't people realise that it's possible to have strong and competent female characters without going to the other extreme of making the males weak/unskilled for laughs?
I think this point should be brought up more because it's just as bad as it would be if it were the other way around - surely in this modern day of equality we can move past such ridiculously out-dated attitudes. I say this because it feels like writers only do it because of old attitudes to women meaning that female characters were often presented as being inferior to males -- but doing the exact same thing 50 or 60 years later with the genders reversed is not okay! It's not cool, please stop! Sorry for the rant (half of this probably doesn't even make sense) and for such a late reply to your comment, but I think you raise a very good point.
Rhys is not that incapable, it's not like he is a dumb fancy boy whose only skill is to look, sound and essentially be ridiculous, there are even times where he and Vaughn outsmart the two girls, if you think about it . But Rhys for all his life has been used to the comforts of a space station, while Fiona and Sasha had to struggle for every day of their lives, so I think that it's pretty obvious that they are more capable in surviving than the boys. Also, it's a comedy, it's supposed to make us laugh and enjoy the adventure, if the main protagonists were perfect, that would be a bit harder to achieve.
You can't be serious. Rhys' character was just radiating coolnes in two episodes in a row - to the point where people started to question what is that Fiona even doing there, because she wasn't doing much. All that thanks to three facts 1. Rhys was very likeable in the first episode plus the episode started with him 2. he's Hyperion and that alone made him interesting 3. as if it wasn't enough, he had Handsome AI in him. And now in just that one episode she was doing better, I guess it's only fair and it's her turn to shine.
I think you're overestimating Fiona here and underestimating Rhys. The way I see it, they're very much alike and they're equal. They're both ambitious, smart but they're both incompetent af.
Do you know what else the males and females have dividing them?
Their home planets.
So yeah of course Rhys, Vaughn and Vasquez are going to appear less competent - they are completely out of their depth - whereas characters like Fiona, Sasha and Vallory have dealt with Pandora's day-to-day craziness presumably their whole lives.
I imagine if Yvette was on Pandora she'd be struggling just as much (perhaps even more, as those killer right-angle heels would be a bitch to walk in the sand with).
Maybe when we get to Helios the roles will be changed and their perceived 'badassery' just won't cut it and it'll be the guy's time to shine?
It's funny that me and most of my friends didn't get that Jack 4 wall breaking joke at first. I've seen some let's plays too and none of the players laughed at that joke. I guess we are just too used to see those "x will remember that" things
I think that if Yvette were ever to get on Pandora she'd just constantly complain about the skag meat based lunch of the place.
I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Yvette.
She strikes me as a bit of a ditz, at least when it comes to lunch ( in particular the comment where Rhys says that Vasquez will pay and she thinks he's talking about him paying for lunch) - the girl has a one track mind, she probably thinks the Vault will be full of sandwiches and Gortys is just a glorified toaster!
Yeah, I can easily see that, and I can hardly wait for Jack's comments about her. Something like "Ah yeah, I I knew a girl like her once. had her choke on all the goddamn food I could find on Helios, and I tell ya, I really enjoyed the show.
Maybe for you, but My Rhys has been nothing but an asshole to her since the beginning. There was definitely no chemistry between them in E1 for me.
I really don't mind there being a romance in this game, but like I said in my above post, my issue is how every dialog option turned out sounding romantic. It felt like they were trying to force you into liking her, even if you didn't want to. And that's not something I wanted in my canon playthrough.
Still, not like it was a huge deal. I just found it mildly annoying, is all.
In most of the instances where Rhys gets to be successful, it's because of technology and resources, not skill or character. It's cybernetics, Handsome Jack, or Loaderbot. Aside from things that come of those advantages, it's never implied that there's anything he does that Fiona or Sasha couldn't, and possibly better, were they in position to do so. Fiona pulls a scam on both hardened criminals and the largest corporation on Pandora that only fails because of an accident. Then she holds off two hardened criminals multiple times all by herself- in one case, armed with one bullet. When Rhys gets betrayed, he stays on the disadvantage until someone else intervenes; when Fiona is betrayed, she almost immediately gets an opportunity either for revenge or to show she's the better person. When Fiona and Athena have a character and relationship-building conversation, it's taken more or less straight; when Rhys and Vaughn do the same, it disintegrates into a "bro" joke. (And yes, it was kind of a funny joke; still, it highlights the way the characters are treated- not by the circumstances, but by the writers.) Fiona gets to rise to challenges; Rhys gets to panic when faced with adversity.
And yes, Rhys and Vaughn are basically corporate flunkies and Fiona and Sasha are hardscrabble grifters yatta yatta yatta. Rhys and Vaughn have also been on Pandora for long enough now, and encountered enough "color", to stop being caught flat-footed every time the planet and its inhabitants take a turn for the worse.
Whenever there's a question about whether someone is of value, it's Fiona who's being asked it, and frequently, at Rhys and Vaughn's expense.
Rhys. Is. INTRODUCED. By. Being. Cold-cocked. And Fiona is introduced by... Calling Rhys a liar and kicking dirt in his face.
It's entirely possible for the game to still be funny without making so many of the jokes at their expense. It's fine for the characters to be "flawed", but really, only Rhys and Vaughn are being regularly shown up by the script for their flaws.
Rhys gets into panic when facing adversities? The whole final sequence of episode 3 is a chase in which Rhys has had full control of the situation without panicking, he didn't panick in the first shoot out in episode 1, he didn't panick when running away from a Rakk Hive, he didn't panick at the beginning of Episode 3, and so on. Also, Rhys is in disadvantage when he is betrayed? The only person who's betrayed him is Vaughn, and he is a friend, what should he have done? Savagely kill him so to prove that he is a badass? Fiona holds off two hardened criminals with one bullet? You mean Finch and Kroger? Those guys are two idiots, Rhys could totally outsmart them, and Fiona wasn't alone, there was Sasha with her. Rhys and Vaughn have been in Pandora for approximately more than a week, it's like saying that if I stayed in Spain for fourteen day I would behave like a Spanish. Fiona doesn't pullma scam on Hyperion, she pulls a scam on Vasquez, and that's totally different. Finally you say that Rhys' advantage consists in his cybernetics, but let's just put the case that Fiona or Sasha had access to those, they wouldn't even know how to use them, and being able to control technological devices is a hell of a perk, combine with some wits it's enough to make you valuable, at least in my book.
I must've missed the scenes where Zer0, Mordecai and Brick are revealed to be female. >.> And if we're counting Gortys as female, let's count Loader Bot as male, yeah? He saved everyone's arses a dozen times by now.
Plus, if Vallory counts as a badass despite being a villain, then so do August, Finch, Kroger and of course, Handsome Jack (though opinions vary on categorising him as a villain, I know). There are plenty of badass guys in TftB. Even if there weren't, there's literally four women we see being badasses: Fiona, Sasha, Vallory, Athena. That really doesn't feel excessive, especially bearing in mind that the two male heroes come from a place where corporate evil is more the go-to tactic than beating a guy repeatedly in his face. Or something.
Hehe, I'm one of the people who didn't get it! I was like "what's he talking about - the snow?" >.<