And yeah, you probably will get trolled. Welcome to the internet. I get trolled too. That's nothing new or special.
Problem with that is the double standard we have here.
You aren't "baited" into arguments, people want to argue beliefs with you and you enter them and say offensive and incorrect statements a lo… moret. That's your fault, people don't ban you out of ignorance, you break the rules when you get banned. Accept your mistake instead of blaming the political ideals and rules of the forum in general.
There's no double standard here. I just flagged many comments from people stating that religion is pointless, stupid, useless, etc. That's not acceptable, and it's not acceptable to say something like "atheists lack morals" either. Both sides of offensive language won't be tolerated.
See my post below. As long as people don't use offensive language when discussing social issues, anything is free to be discussed on this forum. Posts that offend people, groups of people, or their belief system is against the forum guidelines and the Telltale website's Terms of Use. This forum has people from all cultures and belief systems, and we enforce the rules against offensive content to make it a welcoming place for all gamers, from all walks of life.
And yeah, you probably will get trolled. Welcome to the internet. I get trolled too. That's nothing new or special.
Problem with that is the double standard we have here.
It's the way that people go about saying things that's the problem, not the beliefs themselves. Heck, there were a few threads I posted in where my views were more right wing leaning (such as the gun thread, where I posted that I really enjoyed shooting a pistol at a firing range, just about everyone in my area hunts, and I believe that Americans do have a right to own rifles and pistols). A lot of people didn't agree with me, but that was OK, since I know that it's a sensitive subject. But the thread was discussed in a civil manner, people from both sides of the issue posted their views on it without insulting the other, and it never derailed into needing to get locked.
It's not OK to say that people lack morals, are ignorant, call them idiots, say they're degenerates, say their behavior is unnatural, or other words such as these. Those are insults, either to people, groups of people, or their belief system, and go against the forum guidelines and Terms of Use. People posting those types of insults is the only reason why threads like these get locked, and it's not just from people with right leaning beliefs, as I've flagged and locked topics many times in the past when people with left leaning beliefs are insulting people with right leaning beliefs as well. As long as people post their beliefs with respect towards the people that they disagree with, there's no problem with discussing any subject on these forums.
mod edit: Don't insult people's religions. Respect is the first rule of the forum guidelines.
Alright, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and throw myself under the bus so to speak.
Glad you're being figurative and not literal.
so since he's an outlier, he's considered wrong or offensive
No,it's because he is wrong and offensive in things he says. However, I don't expect him to censor himself at all but instead no push away a reaction as trolling or baiting...Like he is.
Um, excuse me, but since when did I have to apologize for my religious and political views?
You don't have to, but don't expect to hide behind them like others do.
I get labeled with such virulent misconceptions that I have to constantly feel bad for being a Christian.
That's like every group ever. Stereotypes hit every group and it makes them feel bad for it. "Hey you're a democrat? Must be that your here to ruin family values", "You're white? Must be a racist", "You're Asian? Your parents must be terrible". You're not a special group for being stereotyped for other's behavior.
People automatically default to me being an intolerant, gay bashing, illogical bible thumper.
Like I said, that happens to literally everyone. In fact, a good number of Christians are like that, you may not be but that doesn't mean others aren't. People commonly group people together, it happens.
Do people know I have gay friends, and I don't make them feel bad for their choice or lack of choice in being gay. I'm in love with Astronomy, and Science is an amazing subject, and if I was better with math I'd have chosen the route of science. I have never read my Bible all the way through, so no I'm not gonna quote it to beat someone over the head with.
Good for you.
I found out a long time ago to hold my tongue when I saw something that I was offended by
That's your problem. You could actually argue with it, I do it all the time. If you don't like something, speak up like you're doing, and defend your point...Not saying anything doesn't help you.
I'm constantly offended by what people say on these forums and in real life, but because I'm right leaning /right wing moderate in my political ideology my views are instantly labeled intolerant.
Okay? I'm offended by a lot of political views and opinions too, doesn't matter.
And it's not even their beliefs on an issue that offend me, it's what they say about me as a person who is a Christian/or right wing moderate that hurts me.
Then speak up. Offense is taken not given, you can defend yourself from those comments and it's up to you and only you to do it.
I have had people "OTHER CHRISTIANS" call me a horrible Christian because I didn't vote for Obama.
Yes, because no matter what, you will be grouped into a group you don't want.
I have had people say absolutely hateful things about me because I identify with a certain group of people.
Like everyone.
So, it doesn't matter what I say, I am always considered intolerant for being Christian or even slightly right wing.
With that attitude it sure doesn't.
Listen, you aren't in a special group because people stereotype and talk bad about you. You do it too with other groups, I know you do because we all do, if you don't like it then speak up. If you don't speak up then there's no one to defend your position and the stereotypes keep going. Speak up or don't complain about it...Same thing with "If you don't vote when you can then I have no reason to listen to your political opinions".
It's the way that people go about saying things that's the problem, not the beliefs themselves. Heck, there were a few threads I posted in … morewhere my views were more right wing leaning (such as the gun thread, where I posted that I really enjoyed shooting a pistol at a firing range, just about everyone in my area hunts, and I believe that Americans do have a right to own rifles and pistols). A lot of people didn't agree with me, but that was OK, since I know that it's a sensitive subject. But the thread was discussed in a civil manner, people from both sides of the issue posted their views on it without insulting the other, and it never derailed into needing to get locked.
It's not OK to say that people lack morals, are ignorant, call them idiots, say they're degenerates, say their behavior is unnatural, or other words such as these. Those are insults, either to people, groups of people, or their belief system, and go against the forum g… [view original content]
mod edit: Don't insult people's religions. Respect is the first rule of the forum guidelines.
Alright, I'm gonna go out on a limb her… moree and throw myself under the bus so to speak.
Glad you're being figurative and not literal.
so since he's an outlier, he's considered wrong or offensive
No,it's because he is wrong and offensive in things he says. However, I don't expect him to censor himself at all but instead no push away a reaction as trolling or baiting...Like he is.
Um, excuse me, but since when did I have to apologize for my religious and political views?
You don't have to, but don't expect to hide behind them like others do.
I get labeled with such virulent misconceptions that I have to constantly feel bad for being a Christian.
That's like every group ever. Stereotypes hit every group and it makes them feel bad for it. "Hey you're a democrat? Must be that your here to ruin family v… [view original content]
In general: You can believe in the flying tea pot, I mean I just don't care until I have nothing to do with it, it is your business alone. But if you force it on me, then I will honestly tell you to f off. That might sound rude, but hell, you are messing with my civil rights if you do that.
Until something's existence is not proven (in any way that science accepts) it does not exists for me. And I can live a happy life knowing that when I die that is it.
If I offended someone well... this is my opinion. Agree to disagree.
I never said, or meant to imply that you're an idiot. I'm talking about a general political trend I'm seeing here and elsewhere.
I really didn't mean to hurt your feelings and I'm sorry if I did.
Well, I disagree with you, but for what it's worth, I thought you presented your point just fine.
I know what it's like to feel like my opinion is being suppressed. I grew up a left-winger in an evangelical haven during the Iraq War. I've been physically assaulted for my views on that subject.
Just keep arguing your case and don't fall into a self-defeating victim mentality.
Beings from afterlife truly love to mess with us and more. You might be with one in the room, right now when you're reading this and denying that such thing even exists due you can't see it easily. Thinking what fool I'm for having typed this all out.
Bottom line is, I sometimes get encounters that are like if they were from the afterlife. Still you're free to believe that all of us are somehow delusional as it's your right to have opinions. Bibles emitting auras and stuff like that of course shouldn't be taken as granted or you become crazy conspiracy theorist. Which brings me to a point, I have felt auras from various bibles. If I can call them that.
It was a slow process. The first book I read was Revolutionary Deists: Early America's Rational Infidels which led me to read more about Deist philosophy. I found the arguments persuasive and I considered myself a Deist for a long time. Then I decided to read into Catholicism - a subject that I always found interesting. I read books about the history of the Church, Church philosophy, and books by Catholic writers like Thomas Merton, Bishop Robert Barron, and various other sources. I found that it spoke to something I didn't realize I was looking for. That's the short version.
It was a slow process. The first book I read was Revolutionary Deists: Early America's Rational Infidels which led me to read more about Dei… morest philosophy. I found the arguments persuasive and I considered myself a Deist for a long time. Then I decided to read into Catholicism - a subject that I always found interesting. I read books about the history of the Church, Church philosophy, and books by Catholic writers like Thomas Merton, Bishop Robert Barron, and various other sources. I found that it spoke to something I didn't realize I was looking for. That's the short version.
I guess, wait and see?
Beings from afterlife truly love to mess with us and more. You might be with one in the room, right now when you'r… moree reading this and denying that such thing even exists due you can't see it easily. Thinking what fool I'm for having typed this all out.
Bottom line is, I sometimes get encounters that are like if they were from the afterlife. Still you're free to believe that all of us are somehow delusional as it's your right to have opinions. Bibles emitting auras and stuff like that of course shouldn't be taken as granted or you become crazy conspiracy theorist. Which brings me to a point, I have felt auras from various bibles. If I can call them that.
Are you saying that anyone who reads into French history shouldn't want to be French? Or American history? British? Chinese? Every group has some degree of sordid past - the objective is to look beyond that. Much of the common perception of the Catholic Church has been manipulated by it's detractors. The same can be said about a great many groups - one notable example would be the Freemasons. There's popular history and there's real history.
Because nationality is as easily abandoned or accepted as religion? (EDIT #2: Especially in the context of accepting the belief system after an age where critique is possible, which I would wager you are at since you said you did research on the subject.) The nation where you lay your head and a belief system are hardly comparable in this context.
The real history of the Catholic church is filled to the brim with deplorable corruption that can only be believed done and over with with the greatest suspension of reason. Even looking at one of the most resent and well known idols of the Catholic curch, the "loving" Mother of Calcutta, it's easy to come to this conclusion. The "popluar history," as you deem it, is deeply rooted in fact and analysis.
EDIT: And another line of reasoning: The Catholic church has revised its position on so many varrying issues I, personally, find it hard to find them trustworthy about anything. They've had the word of God on their side so many times only to have his word (apparently) change to support social sway.
Are you saying that anyone who reads into French history shouldn't want to be French? Or American history? British? Chinese? Every group has… more some degree of sordid past - the objective is to look beyond that. Much of the common perception of the Catholic Church has been manipulated by it's detractors. The same can be said about a great many groups - one notable example would be the Freemasons. There's popular history and there's real history.
The popular simplified history that people accept as true like Paul Revere's midnight ride, or that the Inquisition could take you away without warning, or that the Pyramids of Egypt were built by enslaved Jews etc etc. So much of modern popular history differs from actual academic history. Simply stating that it's "deeply rooted in fact" is just a regurgitation of bias and a desire to protect yourself from admitting you haven't done much first hand reading.
It's not about the nation where you lay your head it's about condemning a collective for the acts of a minority or condemning the son for the sins of the father. Every country, organization, religion, philosophy has it's black stains - skeletons in the closet but I would no more blame a modern Frenchman for the Reign of Terror, a young German for the Holocaust, or a modern American for the transatlantic slave trade.
If you take your argument to it's logical conclusion every single person is guilty of whatever injustices the group they are a part of has been guilty of over it's entire history including the actions of a minority of it's present members.
Because nationality is as easily abandoned or accepted as religion? (EDIT #2: Especially in the context of accepting the belief system after… more an age where critique is possible, which I would wager you are at since you said you did research on the subject.) The nation where you lay your head and a belief system are hardly comparable in this context.
The real history of the Catholic church is filled to the brim with deplorable corruption that can only be believed done and over with with the greatest suspension of reason. Even looking at one of the most resent and well known idols of the Catholic curch, the "loving" Mother of Calcutta, it's easy to come to this conclusion. The "popluar history," as you deem it, is deeply rooted in fact and analysis.
EDIT: And another line of reasoning: The Catholic church has revised its position on so many varrying issues I, personally, find it hard to find them trustworthy about anything. They've had the … [view original content]
Stating that it is deeply rooted in fact means that there are a ridiculously high number of accounts that stand testament to the aforementioned statement (e.g. going back to Mother Teresa, a person that is still held in high regard in the Cathloic church but was, in actually, a horrible person that did very little good for the people she supposedly helped, oftentimes, or even usually, causing far more damage that good).
It is about where you lay your head, that is nationality. You cannot simply abandon your nationality is most cases whereas with religion you usually can. In your case this is most definitely the case since you actively joined after doing research. If you choose to abandon your nationality you have an arduous path ahead of you, usually irregardless of your circumstances (moving by itself, for instance). You actively sought out the church. You saw its history of mental gymnastics, its continuing history of corruption, and decided you wanted to join.
That's not the logical conclusion to my argument at all. The logical conclusion is that the church has and still does support people like the mother, still attempts to cover massive amounts of corruption, still attempts to bend the word of God to satisfy their fanbase, and is overall not a very good establishment. Personally I have more respect for Christian denominations outside of the church than ones associated with it, and that's saying a lot. That's my perspective. Didn't really mean to spark anything. Until next time.
The popular simplified history that people accept as true like Paul Revere's midnight ride, or that the Inquisition could take you away with… moreout warning, or that the Pyramids of Egypt were built by enslaved Jews etc etc. So much of modern popular history differs from actual academic history. Simply stating that it's "deeply rooted in fact" is just a regurgitation of bias and a desire to protect yourself from admitting you haven't done much first hand reading.
It's not about the nation where you lay your head it's about condemning a collective for the acts of a minority or condemning the son for the sins of the father. Every country, organization, religion, philosophy has it's black stains - skeletons in the closet but I would no more blame a modern Frenchman for the Reign of Terror, a young German for the Holocaust, or a modern American for the transatlantic slave trade.
If you take your argument to it's logical conclusion every single p… [view original content]
I, personally, try to remain as neutral as possible, for neither do I believe in religion nor am I an athiest. I often go by science, but because the credibility and falseness of any religious text is so often unverifiable, I neither gravitate towards athiesism or religion.
With that said, however, religion can be a very negative force as much as it can be a positive one. For example, history will constantly show examples of religion being used as a pretext for control and/or ethnic cleansing (e.g. the Crusades, the torture of Christians and Jews by Romans, the Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, ISIS and slavery just to name a few). There are also plenty of examples of corruption, self-contradiction and deciet within religions, noticibly the Abrahamic religions. Religions may hold some truth to them, but even if this were so, it does not change the fact that it has often been undermined through the contortion and revisions of the texts as time has passed.
The problem isn't religion, it's just that human language is simply open for interpretation. It's just human nature, sadly, to interpret any text to condemn that which you don't agree with. Politicians have been doing this with their government's laws for centuries. It's possible to interpret any text to promote equality. Government organizations such as the United States Supreme Court and the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, and the House of Lords before that, do this with the laws of their nations, and many organized religions are doing so with their religious texts now. The true test of one's character is to interpret any text for good rather than to promote hate.
I, personally, try to remain as neutral as possible, for neither do I believe in religion nor am I an athiest. I often go by science, but be… morecause the credibility and falseness of any religious text is so often unverifiable, I neither gravitate towards athiesism or religion.
With that said, however, religion can be a very negative force as much as it can be a positive one. For example, history will constantly show examples of religion being used as a pretext for control and/or ethnic cleansing (e.g. the Crusades, the torture of Christians and Jews by Romans, the Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, ISIS and slavery just to name a few). There are also plenty of examples of corruption, self-contradiction and deciet within religions, noticibly the Abrahamic religions. Religions may hold some truth to them, but even if this were so, it does not change the fact that it has often been undermined through the contortion and revisions of the texts as time has passed.
I never said that religion could not be something positive. In fact, I actually said that it could be "a very negative force as well as a positive one. I was just pointing out how the point of these religions has been constantly undermined through radical interpretation of misinterpretations. I think I might have been a little obtuse with my wording. What I mean is that those who work within the clergy of these religions have often been historically shown to be corrupt, decietful, contradictory or something similar or of a combination thereof.
Know that I am not arguing with you; I agree with you fully.
The problem isn't religion, it's just that human language is simply open for interpretation. It's just human nature, sadly, to interpret any… more text to condemn that which you don't agree with. Politicians have been doing this with their government's laws for centuries. It's possible to interpret any text to promote equality. Government organizations such as the United States Supreme Court and the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, and the House of Lords before that, do this with the laws of their nations, and many organized religions are doing so with their religious texts now. The true test of one's character is to interpret any text for good rather than to promote hate.
I've read the new testament... twice. And I've put a lot of thought into this. Is it not a little rude to assume I haven't? Maybe I just wasn't impressed by your religion overall and gave it a fair shake?
I like to think of myself as an optimistic antagonist. I'm a very morally guided person, so I can't outright say and believe that there is a god, but I think it would be very very nice for there to be.
I guess, wait and see?
Beings from afterlife truly love to mess with us and more. You might be with one in the room, right now when you'r… moree reading this and denying that such thing even exists due you can't see it easily. Thinking what fool I'm for having typed this all out.
Bottom line is, I sometimes get encounters that are like if they were from the afterlife. Still you're free to believe that all of us are somehow delusional as it's your right to have opinions. Bibles emitting auras and stuff like that of course shouldn't be taken as granted or you become crazy conspiracy theorist. Which brings me to a point, I have felt auras from various bibles. If I can call them that.
I hate the label atheist because I think so obvious there isn't a god there. It's just to give false hope to those who want to believe there is something after you die, but there isn't, you're just dead. I know, it's goddamn harsh. Also, bible is bullshit, no matter what you say. You can believe in god, that's your thing, but bible is full of bullshit. So I don't need a reason to label myself when I consider it as obvious there isn't anything there, no reason to label myself.
I believe in God.
I believe God is good, and that he will let himself be found by those who honestly and earnestly seek him.
I believe that God cares about people, and that he doesn't cause the bad things that we see today.
Those things I think are in many ways our own doing, in other words, that we cause our own problems.
I believe that Jesus Christ came to earth, performed many miracles, like healing the sick, curing the blind and deaf, causing the crippled to walk, and raising the dead.
That he brought peace and comfort to anyone who was willing to listen to his message.
And that he died for our sins, and was raised up.
I do not believe in hellfire.
I think of God as the Creator, the "father", of the entire human race.
And like any loving father, I believe he wants the best for his children.
My dad is a very loving and caring man.
He did his very best to raise me, and has ALWAYS wanted the very best for me, even though I am a grown man.
My dad has proven to me that once you're a parent, you're ALWAYS a parent!
Anyway, when I was a kid, when I did something wrong, he spanked me, but he NEVER held my hand in a burning fire.
Just like my dad would not do something so hideous to me, and he is just a mere man, I cannot believe that God, who is all powerful, all loving, and a father himself, would punish people in such a manner for all eternity.
On that note, I cannot believe that God takes people.
As I said: "God is a father", and I have to ask myself, what kind of father, who cherishes his son, would go and kill his son's mom, or his son's best friend, or his son's grandparents?
I also believe in the Devil.
I believe that the Devil exists, that he has an entire horde of demons at his command, and that he is an out-N-out enemy of God.
I believe in the story of Adam&Eve, and that the Devil influenced them to eat the forbidden fruit.
I also believe that the Devil is able to influence people to commit horrible atrocities, like Adolf Hitler and his murdering of over 10 million people, simply because they were of another race - another creed.
I do NOT follow any religion today.
I have not been to Church in years.
These are my personal beliefs.
What are my opinions on religion?
I believe that religion is a good thing, and that it can give people purpose and fulfillment.
For example, I believe that Christianity is a wonderful thing, and that the teachings of Jesus are things that people should live by, and that his teachings are just as applicable now as they were 2,000 years ago.
But it is useless if Church leaders, whether Catholic or Protestant, do not pass down the teachings of Christ to their congregation.
And if these spiritual leaders are not doing so, than how can Christians be expected to act in a Christian way, if they are not being taught the right things?
Mahatma Ghandi was quoted as saying: "I love Christ, but I despise Christians because they do not live as Christ did."
I've never been religious myself. However, I will respect everyone's beliefs as long as they don't harm someone with it, both physically and mentally. Why can't we all just get along?
I believe in God.
I believe God is good, and that he will let himself be found by those who honestly and earnestly seek him.
I believe tha… moret God cares about people, and that he doesn't cause the bad things that we see today.
Those things I think are in many ways our own doing, in other words, that we cause our own problems.
I believe that Jesus Christ came to earth, performed many miracles, like healing the sick, curing the blind and deaf, causing the crippled to walk, and raising the dead.
That he brought peace and comfort to anyone who was willing to listen to his message.
And that he died for our sins, and was raised up.
I do not believe in hellfire.
I think of God as the Creator, the "father", of the entire human race.
And like any loving father, I believe he wants the best for his children.
My dad is a very loving and caring man.
He did his very best to raise me, and has ALWAYS wanted the very best for me, even though I a… [view original content]
This has led to heated debate, and has caused people to use offensive terms that have caused threads to be closed many times in the past.
I'm not going to stop this line of conversation, but I'm just making a pre-emptive warning to everyone right now - to be respectful to people in your responses, and don't use offensive terminology, on either side of the issue. Please heed my advice above. Thanks.
Interesting point of view, even though I don't believe in it, I have some questions if you don't mind.
In your opinion, what does God think about the people referenced as "sinners" by the Bible?
Comments
wat.
Done.
There's no double standard here. I just flagged many comments from people stating that religion is pointless, stupid, useless, etc. That's not acceptable, and it's not acceptable to say something like "atheists lack morals" either. Both sides of offensive language won't be tolerated.
See my post below. As long as people don't use offensive language when discussing social issues, anything is free to be discussed on this forum. Posts that offend people, groups of people, or their belief system is against the forum guidelines and the Telltale website's Terms of Use. This forum has people from all cultures and belief systems, and we enforce the rules against offensive content to make it a welcoming place for all gamers, from all walks of life.
It's the way that people go about saying things that's the problem, not the beliefs themselves. Heck, there were a few threads I posted in where my views were more right wing leaning (such as the gun thread, where I posted that I really enjoyed shooting a pistol at a firing range, just about everyone in my area hunts, and I believe that Americans do have a right to own rifles and pistols). A lot of people didn't agree with me, but that was OK, since I know that it's a sensitive subject. But the thread was discussed in a civil manner, people from both sides of the issue posted their views on it without insulting the other, and it never derailed into needing to get locked.
It's not OK to say that people lack morals, are ignorant, call them idiots, say they're degenerates, say their behavior is unnatural, or other words such as these. Those are insults, either to people, groups of people, or their belief system, and go against the forum guidelines and Terms of Use. People posting those types of insults is the only reason why threads like these get locked, and it's not just from people with right leaning beliefs, as I've flagged and locked topics many times in the past when people with left leaning beliefs are insulting people with right leaning beliefs as well. As long as people post their beliefs with respect towards the people that they disagree with, there's no problem with discussing any subject on these forums.
mod edit: Don't insult people's religions. Respect is the first rule of the forum guidelines.
Glad you're being figurative and not literal.
No,it's because he is wrong and offensive in things he says. However, I don't expect him to censor himself at all but instead no push away a reaction as trolling or baiting...Like he is.
You don't have to, but don't expect to hide behind them like others do.
That's like every group ever. Stereotypes hit every group and it makes them feel bad for it. "Hey you're a democrat? Must be that your here to ruin family values", "You're white? Must be a racist", "You're Asian? Your parents must be terrible". You're not a special group for being stereotyped for other's behavior.
Like I said, that happens to literally everyone. In fact, a good number of Christians are like that, you may not be but that doesn't mean others aren't. People commonly group people together, it happens.
Good for you.
That's your problem. You could actually argue with it, I do it all the time. If you don't like something, speak up like you're doing, and defend your point...Not saying anything doesn't help you.
Okay? I'm offended by a lot of political views and opinions too, doesn't matter.
Then speak up. Offense is taken not given, you can defend yourself from those comments and it's up to you and only you to do it.
Yes, because no matter what, you will be grouped into a group you don't want.
Like everyone.
With that attitude it sure doesn't.
Listen, you aren't in a special group because people stereotype and talk bad about you. You do it too with other groups, I know you do because we all do, if you don't like it then speak up. If you don't speak up then there's no one to defend your position and the stereotypes keep going. Speak up or don't complain about it...Same thing with "If you don't vote when you can then I have no reason to listen to your political opinions".
Thank you Jennifer for you thoughtful and informative response.
[removed]
Okay, you can keep thinking there aren't super intolerant Christians giving you all a bad name.
If you wish to have an actual discussion on this then respond to the rest of the post.
The right-wing persecution narrative is really starting to wear thin.
I'm an idiot I know. No need to drag that fact out.
Hey, you take that back. I meant nothing of the sort, Hollay.
I am right wing. I am Christian.
I'm an idiot. What else do people want to hear?
In general: You can believe in the flying tea pot, I mean I just don't care until I have nothing to do with it, it is your business alone. But if you force it on me, then I will honestly tell you to f off. That might sound rude, but hell, you are messing with my civil rights if you do that.
Until something's existence is not proven (in any way that science accepts) it does not exists for me. And I can live a happy life knowing that when I die that is it.
If I offended someone well... this is my opinion. Agree to disagree.
I never said, or meant to imply that you're an idiot. I'm talking about a general political trend I'm seeing here and elsewhere.
I really didn't mean to hurt your feelings and I'm sorry if I did.
I understood what you mean, I'm merely stating how I feel.
Well, I disagree with you, but for what it's worth, I thought you presented your point just fine.
I know what it's like to feel like my opinion is being suppressed. I grew up a left-winger in an evangelical haven during the Iraq War. I've been physically assaulted for my views on that subject.
Just keep arguing your case and don't fall into a self-defeating victim mentality.
I love Buckley
I guess, wait and see?
Beings from afterlife truly love to mess with us and more. You might be with one in the room, right now when you're reading this and denying that such thing even exists due you can't see it easily. Thinking what fool I'm for having typed this all out.
Bottom line is, I sometimes get encounters that are like if they were from the afterlife. Still you're free to believe that all of us are somehow delusional as it's your right to have opinions. Bibles emitting auras and stuff like that of course shouldn't be taken as granted or you become crazy conspiracy theorist. Which brings me to a point, I have felt auras from various bibles. If I can call them that.
I used to be an agnostic atheist but I recently converted to Catholicism.
What prompted your conversion?
It was a slow process. The first book I read was Revolutionary Deists: Early America's Rational Infidels which led me to read more about Deist philosophy. I found the arguments persuasive and I considered myself a Deist for a long time. Then I decided to read into Catholicism - a subject that I always found interesting. I read books about the history of the Church, Church philosophy, and books by Catholic writers like Thomas Merton, Bishop Robert Barron, and various other sources. I found that it spoke to something I didn't realize I was looking for. That's the short version.
You read the history of the Catholic church and converted to Catholicism? You must be a member of a very select group of people in that regard.
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Are you saying that anyone who reads into French history shouldn't want to be French? Or American history? British? Chinese? Every group has some degree of sordid past - the objective is to look beyond that. Much of the common perception of the Catholic Church has been manipulated by it's detractors. The same can be said about a great many groups - one notable example would be the Freemasons. There's popular history and there's real history.
Because nationality is as easily abandoned or accepted as religion? (EDIT #2: Especially in the context of accepting the belief system after an age where critique is possible, which I would wager you are at since you said you did research on the subject.) The nation where you lay your head and a belief system are hardly comparable in this context.
The real history of the Catholic church is filled to the brim with deplorable corruption that can only be believed done and over with with the greatest suspension of reason. Even looking at one of the most resent and well known idols of the Catholic curch, the "loving" Mother of Calcutta, it's easy to come to this conclusion. The "popluar history," as you deem it, is deeply rooted in fact and analysis.
EDIT: And another line of reasoning: The Catholic church has revised its position on so many varrying issues I, personally, find it hard to find them trustworthy about anything. They've had the word of God on their side so many times only to have his word (apparently) change to support social sway.
The popular simplified history that people accept as true like Paul Revere's midnight ride, or that the Inquisition could take you away without warning, or that the Pyramids of Egypt were built by enslaved Jews etc etc. So much of modern popular history differs from actual academic history. Simply stating that it's "deeply rooted in fact" is just a regurgitation of bias and a desire to protect yourself from admitting you haven't done much first hand reading.
It's not about the nation where you lay your head it's about condemning a collective for the acts of a minority or condemning the son for the sins of the father. Every country, organization, religion, philosophy has it's black stains - skeletons in the closet but I would no more blame a modern Frenchman for the Reign of Terror, a young German for the Holocaust, or a modern American for the transatlantic slave trade.
If you take your argument to it's logical conclusion every single person is guilty of whatever injustices the group they are a part of has been guilty of over it's entire history including the actions of a minority of it's present members.
Stating that it is deeply rooted in fact means that there are a ridiculously high number of accounts that stand testament to the aforementioned statement (e.g. going back to Mother Teresa, a person that is still held in high regard in the Cathloic church but was, in actually, a horrible person that did very little good for the people she supposedly helped, oftentimes, or even usually, causing far more damage that good).
It is about where you lay your head, that is nationality. You cannot simply abandon your nationality is most cases whereas with religion you usually can. In your case this is most definitely the case since you actively joined after doing research. If you choose to abandon your nationality you have an arduous path ahead of you, usually irregardless of your circumstances (moving by itself, for instance). You actively sought out the church. You saw its history of mental gymnastics, its continuing history of corruption, and decided you wanted to join.
That's not the logical conclusion to my argument at all. The logical conclusion is that the church has and still does support people like the mother, still attempts to cover massive amounts of corruption, still attempts to bend the word of God to satisfy their fanbase, and is overall not a very good establishment. Personally I have more respect for Christian denominations outside of the church than ones associated with it, and that's saying a lot. That's my perspective. Didn't really mean to spark anything. Until next time.
I, personally, try to remain as neutral as possible, for neither do I believe in religion nor am I an athiest. I often go by science, but because the credibility and falseness of any religious text is so often unverifiable, I neither gravitate towards athiesism or religion.
With that said, however, religion can be a very negative force as much as it can be a positive one. For example, history will constantly show examples of religion being used as a pretext for control and/or ethnic cleansing (e.g. the Crusades, the torture of Christians and Jews by Romans, the Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, ISIS and slavery just to name a few). There are also plenty of examples of corruption, self-contradiction and deciet within religions, noticibly the Abrahamic religions. Religions may hold some truth to them, but even if this were so, it does not change the fact that it has often been undermined through the contortion and revisions of the texts as time has passed.
The problem isn't religion, it's just that human language is simply open for interpretation. It's just human nature, sadly, to interpret any text to condemn that which you don't agree with. Politicians have been doing this with their government's laws for centuries. It's possible to interpret any text to promote equality. Government organizations such as the United States Supreme Court and the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, and the House of Lords before that, do this with the laws of their nations, and many organized religions are doing so with their religious texts now. The true test of one's character is to interpret any text for good rather than to promote hate.
I never said that religion could not be something positive. In fact, I actually said that it could be "a very negative force as well as a positive one. I was just pointing out how the point of these religions has been constantly undermined through radical interpretation of misinterpretations. I think I might have been a little obtuse with my wording. What I mean is that those who work within the clergy of these religions have often been historically shown to be corrupt, decietful, contradictory or something similar or of a combination thereof.
Know that I am not arguing with you; I agree with you fully.
I've read the new testament... twice. And I've put a lot of thought into this. Is it not a little rude to assume I haven't? Maybe I just wasn't impressed by your religion overall and gave it a fair shake?
I like to think of myself as an optimistic antagonist. I'm a very morally guided person, so I can't outright say and believe that there is a god, but I think it would be very very nice for there to be.
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I hate the label atheist because I think so obvious there isn't a god there. It's just to give false hope to those who want to believe there is something after you die, but there isn't, you're just dead. I know, it's goddamn harsh. Also, bible is bullshit, no matter what you say. You can believe in god, that's your thing, but bible is full of bullshit. So I don't need a reason to label myself when I consider it as obvious there isn't anything there, no reason to label myself.
I believe in God.
I believe God is good, and that he will let himself be found by those who honestly and earnestly seek him.
I believe that God cares about people, and that he doesn't cause the bad things that we see today.
Those things I think are in many ways our own doing, in other words, that we cause our own problems.
I believe that Jesus Christ came to earth, performed many miracles, like healing the sick, curing the blind and deaf, causing the crippled to walk, and raising the dead.
That he brought peace and comfort to anyone who was willing to listen to his message.
And that he died for our sins, and was raised up.
I do not believe in hellfire.
I think of God as the Creator, the "father", of the entire human race.
And like any loving father, I believe he wants the best for his children.
My dad is a very loving and caring man.
He did his very best to raise me, and has ALWAYS wanted the very best for me, even though I am a grown man.
My dad has proven to me that once you're a parent, you're ALWAYS a parent!
Anyway, when I was a kid, when I did something wrong, he spanked me, but he NEVER held my hand in a burning fire.
Just like my dad would not do something so hideous to me, and he is just a mere man, I cannot believe that God, who is all powerful, all loving, and a father himself, would punish people in such a manner for all eternity.
On that note, I cannot believe that God takes people.
As I said: "God is a father", and I have to ask myself, what kind of father, who cherishes his son, would go and kill his son's mom, or his son's best friend, or his son's grandparents?
I also believe in the Devil.
I believe that the Devil exists, that he has an entire horde of demons at his command, and that he is an out-N-out enemy of God.
I believe in the story of Adam&Eve, and that the Devil influenced them to eat the forbidden fruit.
I also believe that the Devil is able to influence people to commit horrible atrocities, like Adolf Hitler and his murdering of over 10 million people, simply because they were of another race - another creed.
I do NOT follow any religion today.
I have not been to Church in years.
These are my personal beliefs.
What are my opinions on religion?
I believe that religion is a good thing, and that it can give people purpose and fulfillment.
For example, I believe that Christianity is a wonderful thing, and that the teachings of Jesus are things that people should live by, and that his teachings are just as applicable now as they were 2,000 years ago.
But it is useless if Church leaders, whether Catholic or Protestant, do not pass down the teachings of Christ to their congregation.
And if these spiritual leaders are not doing so, than how can Christians be expected to act in a Christian way, if they are not being taught the right things?
Mahatma Ghandi was quoted as saying: "I love Christ, but I despise Christians because they do not live as Christ did."
I've never been religious myself. However, I will respect everyone's beliefs as long as they don't harm someone with it, both physically and mentally. Why can't we all just get along?
Interesting point of view, even though I don't believe in it, I have some questions if you don't mind.
In your opinion, what does God think about the people referenced as "sinners" by the Bible?
This has led to heated debate, and has caused people to use offensive terms that have caused threads to be closed many times in the past.
I'm not going to stop this line of conversation, but I'm just making a pre-emptive warning to everyone right now - to be respectful to people in your responses, and don't use offensive terminology, on either side of the issue. Please heed my advice above. Thanks.
Definitely agnostic. I believe something is out there, but not Nessecarily god. For all I know aliens may have created us.
Also god doesn't let you eat shrimp and I can't have that