Am I the only one infuriated by this line?
"For some reason I tried to save that fucking shitbird Ben." -Kenny, S2E2 A House Divided.
While most of the community probably took this line with a chuckle, me personally, I feel really upset about it. It absolutely ruined Kenny's whole return for me, this one single line.
One of the strongest scenes in Season 1 in my opinion happened to be Ben's redemption. When he finally stood up to Kenny and showed that the apocalypse has not been easy for him either. This eventually lead to Kenny symphatizing with Ben, despite all his wellmeaning mistakes. He then proceeds to sacrifice himself in order to spare Ben from his worst nightmare of being eaten alive as the ultimate sign of forgiveness. It seemed like the perfect ending for the two characters.
But then Telltale brought Kenny back in the name of using him to milk more feels out of the fanbase. While I was disappointed to see them cheapen such a touching sacrifice by having him live through it, it was pleasant seeing him again and I willingly gave him a chance.
...Until Telltale sickeningly decided to desecrate that very same powerful scene by completely disregarding Ben's redemption and Kenny's sympathy, having Kenny forget his reasoning and genuinely insult the poor guy despite all the events that happened in S1E5 No Time Left. "For some reason", he says. "Fucking shitbird", he says. It hurts so bad and upsets me to no end to hear them insult Ben's character like that after all he went through.
Another thing that made it even worse was that the player could not respond to this. Throughout season 1 it is constantly made clear that Clementine, believe it or not, considered Ben her best friend. I really wanted her to be able to at least beat Kenny a little bit for that doubleswear.
Why, Telltale? Respect your characters...
Poor Ben.
Comments
Better than saying, I killed that fucking piece of shit Ben
I mean, let's be honest. He's a pretty big shitbird.
Doesn't really bother me because I let him die in Crawford.
I think that's kinda the point, Kenny's kinda lost it a bit by now. He's more on edge than he used to be. He's bitter about all of it.
Yeah, it was kind of out of character considering Kenny risked his life to try to save Ben, and when he couldn't he put him out of his misery. He even made up with Ben after the kid stood up to him, but now that he's dead Kenny's talking trash about him? It is strange. Maybe it's just Kenny's sanity faltering, he has lost it a bit
To be fair, I still think Ben deserved that insult.
He indirectly killed his family, made a deal with bandits behind everyone's back (which ok, I can forgive that)
but then he LIES to us and then causing Carley who stood up for Ben to die? Hahaha, no.
I understand what Ben was trying to do and that I don't think he deserved his fate but if he isn't a shitbird then hell, I don't know who is.
i don't think it ruins kenny's story because it's pretty much adding to it by saying kenny didn't get over what happened to his family and he's trying to find people to replace his family because he might still be in denial over what happened
I admit that I laughed at that line, but you make a fair point. The fanbase is entirely too hard on Ben (some of it is deserved, but he's an easy scapegoat for everything even though he was just another poor S.O.B. doing what he could to survive the ZA).
I don't know if Kenny calling him a "fucking shitbird" really demeans Kenny's forgiveness though... He says it with humor and warmth in his voice. In reality, Ben was clumsy and did so many stupid things, he really was the "fool" of the group (even if he became the type of fool we can sympathize with, and we realized he was just an imperfect human like everybody else).
I think the fact that Kenny calls Ben a shitbird with warmth and mirth in his voice shows that he actually has a warm spot in his heart for Ben (with some hard feelings too, for sure). IMO, you can't really call people something like that with warmth in your voice if there isn't a deeper affection for them behind it.
*Edit to add: wow, I see a lot of you think it means Kenny is still bitter. I didn't hear bitterness in his voice at all. More like how guys talk about each other, often insulting each other in an affectionate way. I don't know how to describe it. It's a "man" thing to use insults to cover up deeper feelings of affection/sympathy/tolerance. It's all about how it's said though, and Kenny's tone was friendly, not bitter (at least to me...) ;P
I believe telltale is trying to show us that Kenny has returned to his state of mind from long road ahead.
Yeah, I gotta agree with StarStruck. I'm sure Kenny genuinely forgave Ben, but then he was on his own for a long while, and with nothing to do, his mind could have wandered. I also was a bit disappointed with that part. It probably would be my only problem with A House Divided.
It seems to be almost a semi-affectionate nickname he created for Ben. I don't think it signifies that he no longer sympathizes with Ben.
^ I agree.
How he says it is affectionate, not angry at all...
Perhaps... but Ben was such a pain in the ass that I couldn´t care less. The only reason I didn´t kill him was because of Lee: I didn´t want everybody giving shit to him. In the end Ben had a chance to redeem himself but even then he was doubtful about rescuing Clem (he came with me but he was the ultimate coward)
I totally agree. Although I loved Kenny in Season One, I was pretty disappointed with Telltale when they brang him back. He had the perfect ending, and it produced so many feels, but bringing him back has completely ruined that for me. Especially when Kenny completely disregarded the fact that he forgave Ben. I know that majority of the fanbase wanted Kenny to return, but it's honestly ruined a lot for me.
Not to mention that Telltale didn't even give an explanation to how Kenny escaped from a logically impossible situation. "I got lucky" doesn't explain how you escaped a tight alley with walkers flooding in from both ends, Kenny.
I agree with you about the "I got lucky" explanation, but I can't fathom how an insult said in endearing way equals "completely disregarded the fact that he forgave Ben." In my eyes, it shows he felt close to Ben and even missed him, in a weird way....
What I don't think some here are getting is that many guys insult their friends in jest as a sign of closeness. It's like... you have to be close enough to a person to know you can insult them without it hurting their feelings. Even though Ben is gone, Kenny's "insult" (and heroic act of mercy) is a sure sign that he cared immensely for Ben.
In other words:
A bit more discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1fmxvk/why_do_men_love_to_insult_each_other/
That's how I heard it, too. Even at that moment, if he could go back, I think he still would have done the same thing. Its just that it isn't easy to talk in entirely affectionate terms about the guy who got your family killed.
Ben confirmed for shitbird
I would have been slightly annoyed by it but the line was not said with malice. I took it as more of his only little way of remembering Ben I guess.
Just because Kenny sympathized with Ben doesn't mean that he forgave him. In Kenny's eyes, Ben will always be the little "shitbird" that got his wife and son killed. Kenny may not have hated Ben any more but he'll always blame him for what happened.
People seem to think that Kenny's (pseudo)sacrifice for Ben was a sign that he'd become enlightened and realized the error of his ways. Bullshit. Kenny saved Ben for the same reason he did everything else: because his gut told him to.
He gave that big, uplifting speech to everybody and that forced him to man up and do the right thing when the moment called for it. But now he's distant enough from the situation that when he reevaluates it, all he sees is him risking his life to save some asshole kid.
What's he say in place of that? Haven't played with those choices yet
People should live in the UK a while. We jokingly talk about each other in that manner sometimes. I also didn't get any hint of malice really in his tone. Well maybe there was a slight bit, but he was more joking. I haven't played since release though, so just going off memory, and only played the episode once.
I kind of agree, but Kenny is pretty obviously going through some issues/ is psychologically messed up.
I'm assuming he says about that shitbird Ben when your sat at the fire with him. For me he said how thankful he was that Lee took care of Duck after he was bitten.
I actually wonder if Telltale hates teenagers(well then again I do not really know about the first game), and I also wonder if Sarah is going to be like that too.She sort of ran to Carlos when Carver punched him, and I do not think that is much of a help. I hope she wont be like that in the future haha
He's just putting on an act for Clementine and everyone else.
You did notice he was trying too hard to appear cheerful with all the jokes and awkward laughter, right? I doubt he wanted their first conversation after such as long time to be depressing.
It really appears he doesn't want to think about the sad stuff. To pretend it never happened. Sarita said he never talks about his past.
I'm 100% sure if he told Clem the truth about how he feels about Ben , he'd get depressed right there. I mean, just look at how devastated he is when he accidentaly remembers Duck on the dinner table.
He's a very emotional man and these things do scar him mentally immensely. When his son was dying one of his lines was "There ain't no way in hell God lets my boy live when I helped kill another" [referring to Shawn's fate, even though he never really purposely killed Shawn, it haunts him and he feels it was his fault] . I've no doubt the Ben situation haunts him every day as well.
He WILL break down and get emotional on Clem in a future episode, though. The mask has got to fall off sometime, you'll see.
Mark my words!
Also, Ken's voice actor did say we'll warm up to him even more in a tweet about EP3, and some guys digging on the files for EP3 found out that there'll be a scene where he's crying . I'll find them later if I can.
He didn't say it with hate. It was more of sorrow the hate.
I think he respects Ben for standing up to him and he really did think saving him would help but deep down he can't forgive Ben for pretty much killing his family.
I meant what does he say if you dropped Ben in Crawford and he jumped down to save Christa, sorry if I didn't make that clear enough
You British people are weird.
Ben fucked up constantly because he never got to see his family. Also, because he got adult responsibilities as a kid.
He just talks about how Christa got in trouble and that he saved her, and then fought his way out just like what he says about the Ben scenario.
It is strange, but I don't believe that having Kenny live was a bad decision, and I don't feel that he truly meant that. Still, I understand what you were saying. It's weird, but I wasn't particularly infuriated.
Oh thanks, just wondering if there was anything about christa
No I get you. I dropped Ben in Crawford too. I never heard any shitbird Ben line in my episode so I assumed that it was during the fireside chat.
TL;DR : Kenny is just putting on a fake cheerful persona, but the mask will fall soon. He didn't really mean what he said about Ben.
According to his VA, we'll warm up to him in EP3 , and some file diggers found that there'll be a scene where he's crying in that EP. I'm sure he's gonna have an emotional break down, and when that happens he'll tell Clem the truth about how he really feels about the past and present.
I'll be honest this line pissed me off, I hated Kenny but i actually liked him when i thought he gave his life just to show how sorry he was and how he used the last bullet to stop Ben from facing his biggest fear and then Kenny taking all the pain for him and becoming a walker however when i saw Kenny was there it kinda lost some of the feels for that moment but i got over it and then Kenny says this which totally ruined every good thought i had for him and on top of that he calls my two favorite characters gay and then makes fun of them -_- well he made fun of Nick anyways
I absolutely can't believe that the GIF in the OP exists. Who made it and why? How do you become emotionally obsessed with FUCKING BEN?
Because some people have empathy :P
Well he wouldn't have called him a shit bird if he WASN'T A FUCKING SHIT BIRD.
There's a difference between empathy and obsession.
Why are people so unforgiving in this game? I saw people root and cheer while Nick was being eaten by walkers just because he almost killed Clem ONCE by accident when he was super paranoid... How can people even be on Kenny's side slightly, i mean were talking about the guy who assumed Lee can lockpick just because hes black, that Nick and Luke are gay just because their good friends, and he also wanted to leave a girl to die a horrible death even though he had the ability to spare her