@Moonbaby: I'm a pretty big Kenny fan but that's while knowing that he can be a coward and an idiot. That's what makes me like him; I really like multi-faceted, imperfect characters.
The one [two?] flaw I see in your argument is the dropping thing. He does it regardless of how good you are in with him, and that's because he has a wound that is barely a week old. He didn't drop Lee willfully. I mean, did you HEAR him wince and moan in pain in both episodes?
I disagree with your first plotpoint for Episode 3. Ben is the cause of everything. The Lilly/Kenny thing had gone on since they first met, and the increased tensions happened because of the bandit attacks. Kenny got anxious about protecting his family in the case of a night attack, and Lilly got anxious because she saw that supplies were going missing - and both can be blamed on Ben.
I'm not going to argue about the other points you made because it doesn't seem as if you're going to see Kenny's side on anything.
Edit: For the record, I don't think there's a character I hate in this game. So don't say that I hate Lilly/Larry/Ben because you'll look silly.
This is a post which I shall be constantly editing because TT keeps logging be out and deleting my saved stuff so bear with me
With Shawn, for all Kenny knew the farm was falling and zombies were approaching from all sides. His reaction to when his family is in danger is to grab em and GTFO, he's sure as hell not going to leave them alone to help someone else. I understand and forgive this and so should you.
His racist remark seems to show a lack of a proper education and something he grew up with in Florida. It doesn't seem offensive and its not like he treats Lee badly or impolitely so I don't really see why you would be so offended.
If you help Larry, you put Duck and Katjaa of risk of a slow and extremely horrible death, being eaten slowly and picked apart by cannibals. Not to mention Kenny's own and everyone else's lives but that probably means less to Kenny. And you do it for some old bastard who punched you after you got him medicine and who is a general dick to everyone. I don't blame Ken for taking the initiative and doing what you couldn't.
Less leave you to die and more doesn't charge a man with a gun. Again I don't blame him. You put Larry above his family, and risked them getting horrible deaths. Not to mention above Kenny who saved your life when Larry tried to kill you.
I refer to my previous point.
Kenny was obviously right about leaving though. The bandits were clearly attacking constantly and when they stopped, it's clear they were planning something. If they had taken Kenny's advice, Duck and Katjaa and Carely would still be alive. The paranoia was about the traitor givin supplies anyway so you are just wrong.
You blame a guy who was recently shot for accidentally dropping you? Nice
Was this in ep 3? I can't exactly remember but I don't recall Clem hearing about the girl.
Well of course it makes a decision. If you have to choose between convicted murderer and normal person to take on the boat, of course you will choose the normal guy. He would be stupid or lying to just say "Aw that's fine. That's not going to affect my decision on who gets left behind, it doesn't even matter" You should be grateful for the honesty. He told my Lee something different though.
Doing so at both time made sense. At the motel, zombies and bandits were approaching and it was chaos. The group is sitting in a vulnerable RV and they had to leave ASAP. Better one die than the RV getting damaged and they all die. On the road, Lilly had just freaking shot Carely for no good reason. She ha clearly gone crazy and was now a loose cannon. He was proved right when you take her and she steals the RV later on aswell.
The guy was shot, what do ya expect? Blaming him for that makes you look mean.
Well duh! Of course he wants you to kill Ben, he just found out that he was indirectly responsible for his family's death. And we know the family is the thing he cared about most in the world. He hasn't even recovered from the tragedy yet, they died pretty recently. Im surprised he never just shot Ben to be honest.
He refuses to help you because all of the above.
Ok, I did my best to address all of you're points. I gotta go to bed, so if another Pro-Kenny can fight his corner, I would really appreciate it.
I feel like I have to post this again for Moonbaby, especially since more of his reasons for hating Kenny were already listed by the OP. Also Ben was the real cause for paranoia, not Kenny.
And even if Kenny didn't give you a ride out of kindness, he still saved you're life in the pharmacy, no matter how much of a dick to him you were.
I feel like I have to post this again for Moonbaby, especially since more of his reasons for hating Kenny were already listed by the OP. Also Ben was the real cause for paranoia, not Kenny.
And even if Kenny didn't give you a ride out of kindness, he still saved you're life in the pharmacy, no matter how much of a dick to him you were.
I dislike Kenny but I think this thread is a bit unfair. But about your post, it's pretty obvious the cause for Lilly's paranoia was her dad having his head smashed in right in front of her and her not being able to do anything about it.
The fact she became paranoid led to her finding out that the supply count was being messed with and thinking the person who had the deal with the bandits deserved to die. But I don't blame anyone for it, because I see no point in playing the blame game.
We've all got our faults, Yeah he can be a bit of an arse and say the wrong thing, but Kenny's a helpful guy. He's a do-er, always there to help clear out areas and make sure the group is safe and he's always had my back. You'll have to go through my version of Lee before you use Kenny as zombie bait!
We've all got our faults, Yeah he can be a bit of an arse and say the wrong thing, but Kenny's a helpful guy. He's a do-er, always there to help clear out areas and make sure the group is safe and he's always had my back. You'll have to go through my version of Lee before you use Kenny as zombie bait!
He's a very bank...ish person. If you make a positive deposit, you better cash it out as quick as you can, because if you won't keep making the deposits every now and then, the bank will close, forgetting about all the money that you poured it into before this week's quota.
says the guy with the x wife.
I find that ironically funny.
So tell me, you wouldnt have gone for your kid first?
You wouldnt have moved him to a safe place or tried to pass him off to his mom before heading back to the danger?
Really?
And where was Hershal while his son was in danger?
The event is scripted as it is, but if he would have run with the pitchfork in his hands to his son instead of going for a gun, well..
PC chair arbiters are a funny bunch.
Im referring to my time in combat where if its zombies or Op-For, it doesnt matter when your life and the lives of those depending on you are on the line.
I make the reference and I stand behind the statement because if you haven't ever been in a life or death situation, then you dont know how you'd really react.
Its easy to judge when you've no idea.
/done
Whats so funny about an x wife? What does that have to do with character? What are you 10 or visiting us from the 50s?
Yes I would have gone for my kids first. What does that have to do with kenny proving time and time again to be a cowardly selfish person?
Nothing is as pathetic as chair-born rangers.
Like I said before I dont get in that stuff like that on the internet. You would likely not believe me anymore then I believe you. Which is not at all. Too many prepubescent tough guys, that lived safe sheltered lives become John Rambo killstuffdaily in-front of a keyboard.
Where Im from we have a saying.
"Those that know wont tell, and those that'll tell dont know."
I disagree with your first plotpoint for Episode 3. Ben is the cause of everything. The Lilly/Kenny thing had gone on since they first met, and the increased tensions happened because of the bandit attacks. Kenny got anxious about protecting his family in the case of a night attack, and Lilly got anxious because she saw that supplies were going missing - and both can be blamed on Ben.
Actually, Ben's actions are more the fault of Kenny and Lily's arguing. Because of their hostility and bickering, Ben was too scared to come to them about the Bandits and naively hoped that if he kept supplying the bandits then the group would be safe. Unfortunately that just fed the paranoia between Kenny and Lily.
But if Kenny and Lily hadn't been so pig-headed, Ben probably would have never gone behind everyone's backs.
Ultimately, Kenny is a well-meaning guy but he's also a self-serving coward when things get too hot. He's consistently making bad decisions and then blaming the results on others.
Seriously, Kenny can be a good guy - but he's unreliable and unstable even at the best of times.
Whats so funny about an x wife? What does that have to do with character? What are you 10 or visiting us from the 50s?
Yes I would have gone for my kids first. What does that have to do with kenny proving time and time again to be a cowardly selfish person?
Nothing is as pathetic as chair-born rangers.
Like I said before I dont get in that stuff like that on the internet. You would likely not believe me anymore then I believe you. Which is not at all. Too many prepubescent tough guys, that lived safe sheltered lives become John Rambo killstuffdaily in-front of a keyboard.
Where Im from we have a saying.
"Those that know wont tell, and those that'll tell dont know."
I not gonna list all my qualifivations for you. I will say that I speaking from experiences that few share. I my time I made almost a hundred staticline jumps dozens of free falls and 3 combat jumps. Youve apparently no concept of what Im talking about or how li'l it matters to me if you believe that or not. And I sill find it amusing that someone would use their tales of a failed marrage in a discussion about morality.
Im coming from a place where promises made and oaths & vows taken mean something. . One of the reasons I will no longer hump a rifle for this nation is because of the knd of pseudo morality thats being preached by PC armchair quarterbacks who would force our milittary women to wear a hijab if they would venture out in public without a male escort or condem a soldier for pissing on their vanquished foes, the likes of who would shoot a li'l girl in the face for standing up for her right to an education.
And to be honest, ( Im guilty as well) its all moot as we're arguing the morality of actions in a scripted event designed to move the story line along a predetermined direction. It would be just as easy to condem Hershel for not running towards the action with thee pitchfork that was in his hands instead of going for the shotgun, if he cared somuch for his sons safety and wellwell being.
I guess it's time for another round of "Fuck Kenny"
Yet again, he's responsible for the death of another person because he won't listen. The guy is beyond redemption at this point
If you mean Johnny or whatever the hell that guy's name was who Kenny head-shotted, then yes. But if you mean Walt, then no I'm pretty sure Carver gets the blame for that.
This is what I don't get, why must the people who like Kenny make a case on why they like him? It makes no sense. It their preference that they like Kenny, why most they defend that. It's like me hating Luke. Once I say that, a flood of people who think he's the best character the game has to offer, want me defend my reasons on disliking him. The reasons why people like Kenny don't need defending. Because it's those people preference, that's it. No defending is needed.
@MosesARose Preferences don't just emerge in a vacuum. Rational people have reasons for why they like the things they like or dislike the things they dislike. That's why they're called "rational."
This is what I don't get, why must the people who like Kenny make a case on why they like him? It makes no sense. It their preference that t… morehey like Kenny, why most they defend that. It's like me hating Luke. Once I say that, a flood of people who think he's the best character the game has to offer, want me defend my reasons on disliking him. The reasons why people like Kenny don't need defending. Because it's those people preference, that's it. No defending is needed.
P.S. I HATE LUKE!!
If Kenny doesn't shoot the guy, Carver doesn't shoot Walt.
It's pretty simple. What exactly did Kenny think would happen when he shot just 1 of 3? It was a really stupid thing to do, especially when I was telling him not to. Once again, Kenny the Dickhead fucks things up and people die because of it.
If you mean Johnny or whatever the hell that guy's name was who Kenny head-shotted, then yes. But if you mean Walt, then no I'm pretty sure Carver gets the blame for that.
Hey,it's your choices that make him look like a bastard.My Kenny was always by my side,and helped me save Clem.And he dropped Lee because he wasn't fully healed,FYI,the man was SHOT.
Ep 1 - He abandons Shawn, literally runs off, even though his child is safe. (Yep, this is on him.)
Ep 2 - He suggests you might be useful at lockpicking because you're "urban." (Oh no, a mild racial prejudice, because no one on this forum has ever used on of those. Honestly, it never even goes passed that point, so this is null.)
Ep 2 - He kills Larry as you're trying to save him (He killed Larry as I held Lilly back.)
Ep 2 - He tells you he'll back you up handling Danny St John, instead he leaves you to die (In my playthrough he helped me, and Lilly left me to die)
Ep 3 - He causes a massive argument at the motel over leaving and is the root cause of the paranoia that leads to Carley, Duck and Katjaa dying. (Ben.)
Ep 3 - He once again leaves you to die as you're trapped under a door (He got me out of that door.)
Ep 3 - He drops you while trying to get on the truck (He was shot. Is this seriously a case against anyone?)
Ep 3 - He fucks you over by blabbing about the girl you kill/leave to die infront of Clem. (This didn't really fuck me over, did it?)
Ep 3 - He tells you your criminal past will be a factor in getting a place on his boat (He told me it didn't matter.)
Ep 3 - He tells you to leave Lilly behind to die, both at the motel and on the road. (She got off easy, I'd have killed her.)
Ep 4 - He drops you again when trying to escape up the fire escape. (A recently shot man lacks the strength to pull someone up that is considerably larger than himself. This is no case.)
Ep 4 - He wills you to let Ben die (Ben got his family killed.)
Ep 4 - He refuses to help save Clem (He went with me without a hitch.)
I conclude that his main fault, irregardless of your opinion of him, is letting Shawn die. If you side against him you get your outcomes, if you side with him you get mine. It's completely determinant.
We've been over this plenty of times. I saved his kid 3 times and his wife once. In return, he leaves me to die because I wouldn't let him murder Larry. He's a cock
Hey,it's your choices that make him look like a bastard.My Kenny was always by my side,and helped me save Clem.And he dropped Lee because he wasn't fully healed,FYI,the man was SHOT.
Ep 1 - He abandons Shawn, literally runs off, even though his child is safe. (Yep, this is on him.)
Ep 2 - He suggests you might be usefu… morel at lockpicking because you're "urban." (Oh no, a mild racial prejudice, because no one on this forum has ever used on of those. Honestly, it never even goes passed that point, so this is null.)
Ep 2 - He kills Larry as you're trying to save him (He killed Larry as I held Lilly back.)
Ep 2 - He tells you he'll back you up handling Danny St John, instead he leaves you to die (In my playthrough he helped me, and Lilly left me to die)
Ep 3 - He causes a massive argument at the motel over leaving and is the root cause of the paranoia that leads to Carley, Duck and Katjaa dying. (Ben.)
Ep 3 - He once again leaves you to die as you're trapped under a door (He got me out of that door.)
Ep 3 - He drops you while trying to get on the truck (He was shot. Is this seriously a case against anyone?)
… [view original content]
So people must defend why they like something. They can't just like it? What would be the purpose of liking something if you'd need to defend the reasons why you like it. I think if someone like something, it's their right to like it. You shouldn't have to defend why you like it. Because of the fact, it is their preference, it is their opinion.
@MosesARose Preferences don't just emerge in a vacuum. Rational people have reasons for why they like the things they like or dislike the things they dislike. That's why they're called "rational."
Kenny shoots the guy, so Carver shoots Walt.
If Kenny doesn't shoot the guy, Carver doesn't shoot Walt.
It's pretty simple. What exact… morely did Kenny think would happen when he shot just 1 of 3? It was a really stupid thing to do, especially when I was telling him not to. Once again, Kenny the Dickhead fucks things up and people die because of it.
@Ninnuendo Well there was no chance of anyone was getting out of that situation unless he did something. Admittedly, it was stupid for Kenny to give up his position by shooting a random peon instead of waiting to go for Carver, but Kenny might not have known that Carver was the ring leader.
Kenny shoots the guy, so Carver shoots Walt.
If Kenny doesn't shoot the guy, Carver doesn't shoot Walt.
It's pretty simple. What exact… morely did Kenny think would happen when he shot just 1 of 3? It was a really stupid thing to do, especially when I was telling him not to. Once again, Kenny the Dickhead fucks things up and people die because of it.
As i said,those were your choices.I helped him and Duck whenever i had the occasion,i supported him,i comforted him.He's just a man,protecting his family.I would act the same,protecting my little brother.I held Lilly back and helped him kill Larry.I shot Duck for him.He was shot,he couldn't lift me up,that's not a thing anyone should hold against him,because that's just a dick move.Ben was the actual reason his family is dead,the only thing that kept him going in the apocalypse.The only reason he survived is because he didn't want to let his family just die for nothing,and because he had Lee,and then Sarita.He stood by my side and helped me whenever i needed it.He helped me save Clem.He abandoned Shawn because,like a normal person,was scared.And just because Duck was safe doesn't mean they were ALL safe.He was getting ready to flee and protect his family from the walkers.That thing about the urbans was just a mild joke,hinting a tiny bit at racism.But since Lee was his BFF,i think your invalid is argument.He helped me at the dairy whereas Lilly left me to die.He didn't "Fuck me over" by telling the group what we had to do to get supplies,he was just trying to show everyone how much they had to give for a few supplies.I chose to leave Lilly behind,because,otherwise,she'd steal my RV.
I know my arguments weren't in order,but fuck it,it's all true.My Kenny was a true BFF to me,while yours was not,because it is determined.Your choices affect his personality.
We've been over this plenty of times. I saved his kid 3 times and his wife once. In return, he leaves me to die because I wouldn't let him murder Larry. He's a cock
The fact that you're using Determinant scenarios (Like him not helping you with the door, Refusing to go save Clem, Criticizing your past) and Ignorant remarks about someone who just got Shot not being Strong enough to lift another guy just invalidates this argument IMO , Next time you want to Bash a Character make sure you have real facts to support your opinion because only #1 Truly makes sense here.
@MosesARose Well they don't have to but it would certainly make their opinion more respectable if they can bolster it with some kind of argument. I mean, this is a discussion forum. The point is to have back and forth exchanges about the game. That's not really something you can do if everybody just spouted random opinions they have without giving any reasons for them.
@DomeWing333
So people must defend why they like something. They can't just like it? What would be the purpose of liking something if you… more'd need to defend the reasons why you like it. I think if someone like something, it's their right to like it. You shouldn't have to defend why you like it. Because of the fact, it is their preference, it is their opinion.
Responsible for the death of Shawn, probably. No guarantee that we could have saved him together, but I'll allow that his running to his family (while understandable) didn't help the situation. He was obviously responsible for Larry's death with or without Lee's support because he initiated it, but many people think that was a defensible decision and not an indictment of Kenny. I don't blame Kenny for that, it was the right move. He wasn't responsible for Carley's death, that was 90% Lilly and 10% Ben. Kenny literally had nothing to do with that. Shit, he wanted to leave the motel really early on, and if he had gotten his way Carley/Duck/Katjaa might have lived. I don't see how you blame him for any of those three deaths, even partially. Walter...yeah, he probably was at fault for that one. Poor choice to take out one sentry and force Carver to retaliate. However, while he may be guilty of poor judgement in an extremely tense/difficult situation, that doesn't make him a dick or a bad person. He's made plenty of solid decisions under pressure as well. You have to look at the whole body of work, as it were.
Now, I don't love Kenny. I'm certainly not a complete supporter of his. He has his flaws and has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass depending on how you play the game. But I think you're giving him short shrift.
A lot of your complaints are entirely determinant. The paranoia at the hotel which lead to Lilly snapping was over missing supplies, which Kenny had nothing to do with. On my playthrough, he accepted Lee's past and never brought it up as a factor when getting on the boat. Furthermore, he not only went with me to find Clementine, but he made sure Ben didn't have to live through his greatest fear. When Kenny argued to leave Lilly, it was because she refused to move on. What he suggested was for the group to split up, with those who refused to go staying and for his and Lee's families to head out in the RV. When he brought up leaving Ben it was because he was overcome with the emotion of knowing the part he played in his family's deaths - again, however, the intent was never explicitly so Ben would die. He saw Ben as a hanger on who caused nothing but trouble, just as most fans did. He wanted him to have to fend for himself after all the problems he had brought. Plus, the voting to kick Ben out only came after the realization that the boat they had would not have enough space for everyone.
Don't judge Kenny based on how one playthrough went. Even the racist part was just a use of a stereotype, which he apologized for immediately. Kenny's biggest crime was putting his family so high on a pedestal that when he lost them, he fell out of it for a while. Though to say that he's an alcoholic because he spent a while drinking away his sorrows is ridiculous - you may as well call Nick an alcoholic for drinking vodka after watching his uncle die. One minute you're citing how he's a bad person for saying you should leave someone behind to die, but then complaining about how he was a bad person for telling everyone that YOU YOURSELF left a girl behind to be eaten alive. You're completely hypocritical.
@DomeWing333
My whole point in writing in this thread was telling the OP that people who liked Kenny didn't have to defend their reasons, that's it. Rather their reasons are respectable or not was never my concern. The point was, they don't have to defend them and that's what I tried to get across in my first post. No disrespect
@MosesARose Well they don't have to but it would certainly make their opinion more respectable if they can bolster it with some kind of argu… morement. I mean, this is a discussion forum. The point is to have back and forth exchanges about the game. That's not really something you can do if everybody just spouted random opinions they have without giving any reasons for them.
Most of these are entirely detrimental, happening at the K vs, L point in the meat locker.
Kenny mentions multiple times about Shaun's death, and how much it has affected him. If you wouldn't forgive him, then I hope you let Walter kill Nick.
Anyway, while I don't hate Kenny, the OP makes some good points. His unstable, impulsive, I'm-your-friend-as-long-as-you-agree-on-everything-I-say attitude was beyond annoying. I only like him because he offered to help search for Clem and because he risked his life for Ben.
Do people even realize how old this thread is?
Anyway, while I don't hate Kenny, the OP makes some good points. His unstable, impulsive, … moreI'm-your-friend-as-long-as-you-agree-on-everything-I-say attitude was beyond annoying. I only like him because he offered to help search for Clem and because he risked his life for Ben.
You just listed all his mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. EVEN CLEM. I really don't like Kenny but I'm giving him another shot and I hope he can redeem himself in Season 2. I think this is a little unfair though.
Comments
The one [two?] flaw I see in your argument is the dropping thing. He does it regardless of how good you are in with him, and that's because he has a wound that is barely a week old. He didn't drop Lee willfully. I mean, did you HEAR him wince and moan in pain in both episodes?
I disagree with your first plotpoint for Episode 3. Ben is the cause of everything. The Lilly/Kenny thing had gone on since they first met, and the increased tensions happened because of the bandit attacks. Kenny got anxious about protecting his family in the case of a night attack, and Lilly got anxious because she saw that supplies were going missing - and both can be blamed on Ben.
I'm not going to argue about the other points you made because it doesn't seem as if you're going to see Kenny's side on anything.
Edit: For the record, I don't think there's a character I hate in this game. So don't say that I hate Lilly/Larry/Ben because you'll look silly.
I feel like I have to post this again for Moonbaby, especially since more of his reasons for hating Kenny were already listed by the OP. Also Ben was the real cause for paranoia, not Kenny.
And even if Kenny didn't give you a ride out of kindness, he still saved you're life in the pharmacy, no matter how much of a dick to him you were.
I dislike Kenny but I think this thread is a bit unfair. But about your post, it's pretty obvious the cause for Lilly's paranoia was her dad having his head smashed in right in front of her and her not being able to do anything about it.
The fact she became paranoid led to her finding out that the supply count was being messed with and thinking the person who had the deal with the bandits deserved to die. But I don't blame anyone for it, because I see no point in playing the blame game.
Taken out of context, perhaps so.
But then, tact isnt my strong suit.
He's a very bank...ish person. If you make a positive deposit, you better cash it out as quick as you can, because if you won't keep making the deposits every now and then, the bank will close, forgetting about all the money that you poured it into before this week's quota.
Whats so funny about an x wife? What does that have to do with character? What are you 10 or visiting us from the 50s?
Yes I would have gone for my kids first. What does that have to do with kenny proving time and time again to be a cowardly selfish person?
Nothing is as pathetic as chair-born rangers.
Like I said before I dont get in that stuff like that on the internet. You would likely not believe me anymore then I believe you. Which is not at all. Too many prepubescent tough guys, that lived safe sheltered lives become John Rambo killstuffdaily in-front of a keyboard.
Where Im from we have a saying.
"Those that know wont tell, and those that'll tell dont know."
Actually, Ben's actions are more the fault of Kenny and Lily's arguing. Because of their hostility and bickering, Ben was too scared to come to them about the Bandits and naively hoped that if he kept supplying the bandits then the group would be safe. Unfortunately that just fed the paranoia between Kenny and Lily.
But if Kenny and Lily hadn't been so pig-headed, Ben probably would have never gone behind everyone's backs.
Ultimately, Kenny is a well-meaning guy but he's also a self-serving coward when things get too hot. He's consistently making bad decisions and then blaming the results on others.
Seriously, Kenny can be a good guy - but he's unreliable and unstable even at the best of times.
I not gonna list all my qualifivations for you. I will say that I speaking from experiences that few share. I my time I made almost a hundred staticline jumps dozens of free falls and 3 combat jumps. Youve apparently no concept of what Im talking about or how li'l it matters to me if you believe that or not. And I sill find it amusing that someone would use their tales of a failed marrage in a discussion about morality.
I guess it's time for another round of "Fuck Kenny"
Yet again, he's responsible for the death of another person because he won't listen. The guy is beyond redemption at this point
No
If you mean Johnny or whatever the hell that guy's name was who Kenny head-shotted, then yes. But if you mean Walt, then no I'm pretty sure Carver gets the blame for that.
You'll have to do better than that.
Kenny is partially or wholly responsible for the deaths of
Shawn
Larry
Carley
Duck
Katjaa
Walter
This is what I don't get, why must the people who like Kenny make a case on why they like him? It makes no sense. It their preference that they like Kenny, why most they defend that. It's like me hating Luke. Once I say that, a flood of people who think he's the best character the game has to offer, want me defend my reasons on disliking him. The reasons why people like Kenny don't need defending. Because it's those people preference, that's it. No defending is needed.
P.S. I HATE LUKE!!
@MosesARose Preferences don't just emerge in a vacuum. Rational people have reasons for why they like the things they like or dislike the things they dislike. That's why they're called "rational."
Kenny shoots the guy, so Carver shoots Walt.
If Kenny doesn't shoot the guy, Carver doesn't shoot Walt.
It's pretty simple. What exactly did Kenny think would happen when he shot just 1 of 3? It was a really stupid thing to do, especially when I was telling him not to. Once again, Kenny the Dickhead fucks things up and people die because of it.
Hey,it's your choices that make him look like a bastard.My Kenny was always by my side,and helped me save Clem.And he dropped Lee because he wasn't fully healed,FYI,the man was SHOT.
Ep 1 - He abandons Shawn, literally runs off, even though his child is safe. (Yep, this is on him.)
Ep 2 - He suggests you might be useful at lockpicking because you're "urban." (Oh no, a mild racial prejudice, because no one on this forum has ever used on of those. Honestly, it never even goes passed that point, so this is null.)
Ep 2 - He kills Larry as you're trying to save him (He killed Larry as I held Lilly back.)
Ep 2 - He tells you he'll back you up handling Danny St John, instead he leaves you to die (In my playthrough he helped me, and Lilly left me to die)
Ep 3 - He causes a massive argument at the motel over leaving and is the root cause of the paranoia that leads to Carley, Duck and Katjaa dying. (Ben.)
Ep 3 - He once again leaves you to die as you're trapped under a door (He got me out of that door.)
Ep 3 - He drops you while trying to get on the truck (He was shot. Is this seriously a case against anyone?)
Ep 3 - He fucks you over by blabbing about the girl you kill/leave to die infront of Clem. (This didn't really fuck me over, did it?)
Ep 3 - He tells you your criminal past will be a factor in getting a place on his boat (He told me it didn't matter.)
Ep 3 - He tells you to leave Lilly behind to die, both at the motel and on the road. (She got off easy, I'd have killed her.)
Ep 4 - He drops you again when trying to escape up the fire escape. (A recently shot man lacks the strength to pull someone up that is considerably larger than himself. This is no case.)
Ep 4 - He wills you to let Ben die (Ben got his family killed.)
Ep 4 - He refuses to help save Clem (He went with me without a hitch.)
I conclude that his main fault, irregardless of your opinion of him, is letting Shawn die. If you side against him you get your outcomes, if you side with him you get mine. It's completely determinant.
We've been over this plenty of times. I saved his kid 3 times and his wife once. In return, he leaves me to die because I wouldn't let him murder Larry. He's a cock
Same.My Kenny and your Kenny were cool.
@DomeWing333
So people must defend why they like something. They can't just like it? What would be the purpose of liking something if you'd need to defend the reasons why you like it. I think if someone like something, it's their right to like it. You shouldn't have to defend why you like it. Because of the fact, it is their preference, it is their opinion.
I agree with everything except him dropping Lee. Kenny was shot. And you are right - Kenny is a dick. I'm worried Clem may be in a real danger now.
@Ninnuendo No disrespect but if Kenny hadn't shot at all. Pretty sure Alvin was gonna die anyway 'cause of his past with Carver.
@Ninnuendo Well there was no chance of anyone was getting out of that situation unless he did something. Admittedly, it was stupid for Kenny to give up his position by shooting a random peon instead of waiting to go for Carver, but Kenny might not have known that Carver was the ring leader.
As i said,those were your choices.I helped him and Duck whenever i had the occasion,i supported him,i comforted him.He's just a man,protecting his family.I would act the same,protecting my little brother.I held Lilly back and helped him kill Larry.I shot Duck for him.He was shot,he couldn't lift me up,that's not a thing anyone should hold against him,because that's just a dick move.Ben was the actual reason his family is dead,the only thing that kept him going in the apocalypse.The only reason he survived is because he didn't want to let his family just die for nothing,and because he had Lee,and then Sarita.He stood by my side and helped me whenever i needed it.He helped me save Clem.He abandoned Shawn because,like a normal person,was scared.And just because Duck was safe doesn't mean they were ALL safe.He was getting ready to flee and protect his family from the walkers.That thing about the urbans was just a mild joke,hinting a tiny bit at racism.But since Lee was his BFF,i think your invalid is argument.He helped me at the dairy whereas Lilly left me to die.He didn't "Fuck me over" by telling the group what we had to do to get supplies,he was just trying to show everyone how much they had to give for a few supplies.I chose to leave Lilly behind,because,otherwise,she'd steal my RV.
I know my arguments weren't in order,but fuck it,it's all true.My Kenny was a true BFF to me,while yours was not,because it is determined.Your choices affect his personality.
So yeah.
The fact that you're using Determinant scenarios (Like him not helping you with the door, Refusing to go save Clem, Criticizing your past) and Ignorant remarks about someone who just got Shot not being Strong enough to lift another guy just invalidates this argument IMO , Next time you want to Bash a Character make sure you have real facts to support your opinion because only #1 Truly makes sense here.
@MosesARose Well they don't have to but it would certainly make their opinion more respectable if they can bolster it with some kind of argument. I mean, this is a discussion forum. The point is to have back and forth exchanges about the game. That's not really something you can do if everybody just spouted random opinions they have without giving any reasons for them.
Who cares all about stache
Responsible for the death of Shawn, probably. No guarantee that we could have saved him together, but I'll allow that his running to his family (while understandable) didn't help the situation. He was obviously responsible for Larry's death with or without Lee's support because he initiated it, but many people think that was a defensible decision and not an indictment of Kenny. I don't blame Kenny for that, it was the right move. He wasn't responsible for Carley's death, that was 90% Lilly and 10% Ben. Kenny literally had nothing to do with that. Shit, he wanted to leave the motel really early on, and if he had gotten his way Carley/Duck/Katjaa might have lived. I don't see how you blame him for any of those three deaths, even partially. Walter...yeah, he probably was at fault for that one. Poor choice to take out one sentry and force Carver to retaliate. However, while he may be guilty of poor judgement in an extremely tense/difficult situation, that doesn't make him a dick or a bad person. He's made plenty of solid decisions under pressure as well. You have to look at the whole body of work, as it were.
Now, I don't love Kenny. I'm certainly not a complete supporter of his. He has his flaws and has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass depending on how you play the game. But I think you're giving him short shrift.
A lot of your complaints are entirely determinant. The paranoia at the hotel which lead to Lilly snapping was over missing supplies, which Kenny had nothing to do with. On my playthrough, he accepted Lee's past and never brought it up as a factor when getting on the boat. Furthermore, he not only went with me to find Clementine, but he made sure Ben didn't have to live through his greatest fear. When Kenny argued to leave Lilly, it was because she refused to move on. What he suggested was for the group to split up, with those who refused to go staying and for his and Lee's families to head out in the RV. When he brought up leaving Ben it was because he was overcome with the emotion of knowing the part he played in his family's deaths - again, however, the intent was never explicitly so Ben would die. He saw Ben as a hanger on who caused nothing but trouble, just as most fans did. He wanted him to have to fend for himself after all the problems he had brought. Plus, the voting to kick Ben out only came after the realization that the boat they had would not have enough space for everyone.
Don't judge Kenny based on how one playthrough went. Even the racist part was just a use of a stereotype, which he apologized for immediately. Kenny's biggest crime was putting his family so high on a pedestal that when he lost them, he fell out of it for a while. Though to say that he's an alcoholic because he spent a while drinking away his sorrows is ridiculous - you may as well call Nick an alcoholic for drinking vodka after watching his uncle die. One minute you're citing how he's a bad person for saying you should leave someone behind to die, but then complaining about how he was a bad person for telling everyone that YOU YOURSELF left a girl behind to be eaten alive. You're completely hypocritical.
@DomeWing333
My whole point in writing in this thread was telling the OP that people who liked Kenny didn't have to defend their reasons, that's it. Rather their reasons are respectable or not was never my concern. The point was, they don't have to defend them and that's what I tried to get across in my first post. No disrespect
Most of these are entirely detrimental, happening at the K vs, L point in the meat locker.
Kenny mentions multiple times about Shaun's death, and how much it has affected him. If you wouldn't forgive him, then I hope you let Walter kill Nick.
Do people even realize how old this thread is?
Anyway, while I don't hate Kenny, the OP makes some good points. His unstable, impulsive, I'm-your-friend-as-long-as-you-agree-on-everything-I-say attitude was beyond annoying. I only like him because he offered to help search for Clem and because he risked his life for Ben.
" He risked his life for Ben."
The only thing, i didn't like about him!
You just listed all his mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. EVEN CLEM. I really don't like Kenny but I'm giving him another shot and I hope he can redeem himself in Season 2. I think this is a little unfair though.
Talk about a necro'd thread. This one was so dead it's flesh was rotting.
We the jury find the defendant, Kenny, not guilty on account of his mustache.