I completely agree, people imagined a 3 hour long episode with huge hubs, being able to talk to the 400 Days characters (Which is dumb, the … morerest of the 400 Days crew are just guards. They don't know Clem and they don't want to know Clem.) every character telling their life story to Clementine in the middle of a bad situation and people from Season 1 returning. (Which would be bad writing, Macon and Virginia are very far away from each other)
And what do we get? A one hour and forty minute episode with plenty of interactions with characters and action sequences, as well as heart-racing moments. And people cry like babies because they didn't get their perfectly constructed Build-A-Bear episode that they thought they would.
Something people keep forgetting over and over again is that the walking dead universe wouldn't be the walking dead universe if the things in it happened even remotely close to how we wanted it to go.
That's unless we dig into the files, but that'd be like talking to Robert Kirkman and having him tell you what'll happen 50 comics later before they're released. I just can't understand file diggers, especially if they're telltale TWD fans.
I can't say that I blame them, but they do make it hard for everyone to avoid. I see it as both parties' fault, don't go into threads that might spoil the game.
Something people keep forgetting over and over again is that the walking dead universe wouldn't be the walking dead universe if the things i… moren it happened even remotely close to how we wanted it to go.
That's unless we dig into the files, but that'd be like talking to Robert Kirkman and having him tell you what'll happen 50 comics later before they're released. I just can't understand file diggers, especially if they're telltale TWD fans.
I'd honestly say that I don't need a Shakespearean soliloquy but at least more time to flesh out some of the characters or give them purpose. Sarita was only there to cry about Kenny and do nothing. Nick & Alvin basically aren't there. Carlos is gone the majority of the episode. The 400 days characters are just cameos(discounting Bonnie who always joins Tavia in 400 days). Mike and Jane don't do much for most of the episode.
For the most part the episode was fine but just lacked a bit of substance with how "undercooked" everything feels. Carver's camp didn't feel like a huge fort. It felt more like a large room and some smaller rooms because of how little of it you get to see and then it much is over with as everyone escapes it by the end.
Episode was awesome, i felt angry all the time, im afraid my Clem is gonna change, but i like her new style, I loved every single character, except Tavia, Bonnie, if she was real i would apologize to her for the things i thought about her, gosh i can't wait for ep 4
I usually just read this forum and don't respond, but I was sort of surprised at some of the criticism leveled against this episode (and less surprised at some of the other criticism).
- 400 Days Characters: I enjoyed 400 Days for what it was. If they find a way to work those characters back into Clem's story more, I would like that. If they don't, then 400 Days was like a "special issue" comic book where I got to look through the eyes of some other characters for an hour or so. I don't mind that. In my 400 Days play-through, almost nobody went with Tavia, and so there's the possibility that I might get more cameos of them out in the wilderness in upcoming episodes. Cool. If not, I'm still going to enjoy the story (a story which I've never NOT enjoyed thus far).
- Carver: I think folks expected this guy to be the sort of long-term villain that they've seen in the Governor/Negan. I never really expected that. Some folks felt that Carver was underdeveloped. I think that Carver had a reasonable amount of development for his life-span within this story. Because we're playing through the POV of Clem, we're not going to get the same sort of development that we might get in the comic or TV show for an antagonist; the development of those "long-term" villains in those other mediums relied on switching to those villains' point-of-views. Different medium. I liked Carver; he has acted as a catalyst this season, and whatever the story is driving towards in its finale will no doubt be a result of Carver's affect on these characters. Cool.
- HUBs: This is one of those complaints that I can relate to, moreso than the others. I dig adventure games. I liked the light puzzle aspects that we had more of in Season One. I hope that we have more opportunities for "HUB" situations in the future, but I don't see a lack of those situations for being the herald of the series' failure. There's a more focused view on the arc of the narrative right now. That's obviously the approach that they've taken. It's different, but I'm still loving every minute of the game, just as I did back in Season One.
- New Characters: A lot of folks are finding it harder to connect to the new characters. For me, my favorite TWD characters have been Lee, Clem, Kenny, Carley, Lilly, Mollie, Pete, Luke and Bonnie. Those are the ones that I felt most connected to, and some of those characters are from this season. Some of them managed to make a big impact on me with just one episode. It's The Walking Dead: characters are going to disappear, or die, and we're going to meet new characters that are awesome. I like that! And I also think that the addition of Mike and Jane this episode was good. Both of those characters are interesting to me. I think a lot of folks miss Lee a lot, and I dig that. I miss him too. And I remember it (and Clem remembers it) every moment that I'm playing Season Two. When I chose to let Clem indulge in her dark side towards the end of this episode, I imaged Lee watching her. Scared for what she might become. When she found herself surrounded at the end, and proved just how capable she is at surviving and helping others, I imagined Lee's approval. I like to imagine him as a constant ghost for Clem, now, and that is something truly unique to this game and this story. Different, but cool.
- Gameplay: Well, this is really just a preference opinion on the type of game that The Walking Dead is. It used to have a little more adventure (exploration, puzzles) in it, to be certain, but the overall style of game hasn't changed much. And it's not its adventure elements that impressed me, because that was never the focus. The focus was this story that you help to craft; sure, some of the big decisions you make might lead you down similar paths no matter what (because those are the limitations of playing a game, as opposed to writing your own story where anything can happen). But as an episodic, TV-like approach to Game Design, it's truly an incredible experience. And that's what it's meant to be.
- Plot Holes: I find myself on the other side of this situation with many different titles. A lot of folks were bothered by the lack of answers in LOST's final season (or not happy with the answers they got, because they didn't match up with what they expected to happen). Not me. I was too interested in the characters and their development. It's the same here (to a lesser degree). I don't know what happened to Lilly or if I will ever see her again, and neither does Clem. That's with her. I don't know who Alvin murdered and what the story was there, and neither does Clem. She carries that with her. It's realistic.
Overall, I think that critics and detractors oftentimes tend to be more vocal than supporters, when it comes to storytelling mediums. That's okay. Everybody looks for different things when they approach a story. I just felt disconnected from the complaints about this episode. It falls in the top three of my favorite episodes so far, of either season (along with S1Ep2 and S1Ep5). I'll go back to silently reading, now, most likely. I just felt this episode could use another voice of support, because I loved it.
Like the first post said those are some rather silly arguments, they kind of seem like you're just justifying telltale's direction with the episode.
"HUBS- Telltale never confirmed hubs in episode 3 yet you overhyped yourselves with the game's file size. It's hard to have a hub in prison when your every action is controlled."
Telltale takes feedback to add into the next episodes. After episode 1 and 2 everyone cried about wanting hubs back. The file size sparked some hope that we may finally get hubs back after everyone wanted them back for months. There's lots of reasons to get hyped for hubs knowing that a camp is the perfect scenario for hubs.
" CARVER- You created the illusion that Carver was the villain of the series and expected some sort of Governor/Negan character. Carver was just the seed that will lead Clementine to either, be a better person or lose her humanity and finish what Carver started."
Nope, telltale planted that illusion in our heads.
" CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT- Do you want every single person to give you a Shakespearean monologue talking about their life? This is like real life, people either don't have nothing to hide/say or don't care about you to tell you. Also, they're in the middle of a survival situation where people's past isn't as important as their present. Their actions are enough to show us if they are worth caring for or not."
I don't remember season 1 characters going in full depth about their lives yet we still cared about them from just talking with them. Troy was such a crap character that by the time I was setting up the loudspeakers at the camp i had already forgotten he existed. When he popped out of nowhere at the end i said "what the fuck did i really forget about this asshole?". The fact that Troy was mute for the entire episode 2 should tell you something about the writers having some sort of trouble dealing with all the introductions of all these new characters.
" WRITING- A lot of people complain about the story having many unexplained things. Do we really need Telltale to babysit us and explain every single detail to us so we can understand and read between the lines?"
Yes, they need to explain at least some of it, not leave ALL of it to be forgotten. Throwing random information everywhere that will never be explained just for the sake of meeting that 90 minute mark is just plain bad writing.
"400 DAYS- We still have 2 episodes to interact with the 400 days characters so relax."
Should they even bring them back? How would that even work?. Bring them back as enemies seeking revenge for killing Carver? Wouldn't work because almost everyone in there including Tavia didn't seem so fond of Carver. That plus the fact that they're all determinant with your DLC actions would just create more issues. I think we're done with the 400 days characters except for Bonnie, Eddie and MAYBE Nate.
Now just like @TheGoodTheBadTheDead said about the achievements. They really didn't make me create my own episode in my head. The trailer showed about 80% of what the achievements said and i'm sure A LOT more people saw the trailer instead of the achievements.
I'll explain why I think some of your arguments don't really hold water. I think that people disliked the episode for different reasons, they weren't necessarily expecting something based off the achievements. Secondly, just because someone didn't like certain aspects of the episode doesn't mean that they don't have valid complaints and it doesn't mean that they didn't like the episode at all. Some people have a more critical eye. I think if you're going to make the argument that people are just being critical because they were expecting some made-up version of the game, then you can make the argument that the vehement fans of EVERY single episode are so complimentary about the episodes because they'll take anything Telltale makes and call it gold.
Yes, there are people who will never be satisfied, but there are also people who are ALWAYS satisfied and will balk at any criticism directed at Telltale. Either extreme can be obnoxious, but I think most people who play fall in between, and are more balanced. I, personally, really enjoyed this last episode. I don't have very many complaints, but I can appreciate other people's opinions when they're offering up an intelligent criticism. I don't think it's right to make assumptions about them just because they have a different take on the execution of the episode than I do. I think you're painting with a very broad brush. There are perpetual complainers and perpetual fanboys, but most people are not like this. Most people WANT to enjoy the game, some do and some don't and they all have their own reasons. One person's opinion is no more or less valid than the next.
They're entitled to wish for hubs. It's not a ridiculous thing to hope for, given that they were a much-loved, frequently-used feature of the first season. Wishing for more character development is not a bad thing either. Wanting to see more of Carver is a perfectly normal thing to want, in my opinion. While I loved the episode, I would have like more Carver. He was a good villain with a great voice actor. A lot of the things you listed are reasonable criticisms, even if you and I enjoyed the episode regardless. Not everyone is going to feel the same way and that's fine. I think that's what the forum is for, to debate these things. The problem is when people ONLY criticize or ONLY praise. There's no room for debate when people are on either extreme. That's just my opinion on the whole matter.
I have to say that I enjoyed the moments that kept you on your toes, like when the walkers were surrounding everyone and Sarah was all upset, the incident with Sarita, the fight with Carver, etc. I loved the fight scenes, and some of the instances where characters changed physically/emotionally/mentally in this episode too. I even enjoyed the whole scheme about breaking out of the prison.
However, I was not exactly 'happy' either. Some of the characters were very bland this episode, such as Luke and Nick. Potential chances at character development were lost, for old characters and new, and now I feel like quite a few of the current group are simply waste ready to be trashed when the time comes for them to die. The prison seemed like a great opportunity to cause long-term drama and turmoil as well, but it ended up feeling rushed to keep the story moving.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the episode... I just feel there was much to be improved on. For two months of waiting, anyway. Which in about that time, episode 2 shined(well, besides the lack of HUBS). Eh, just my opinion.
Not justifying Telltale, I'm just pointing out that the episode is done and there's nothing we can do to change that. Episode 4 and 5 will make it or break it for many people, but seeing how Telltale has "listened" to our feedback makes it hard to imagine what they can do. I'm just trying to make people see that over expectation is sometimes bringing down a good quality game in their eyes.
"Telltale takes feedback to add into the next episodes. After episode 1 and 2 everyone cried about wanting hubs back. The file size sparked some hope that we may finally get hubs back after everyone wanted them back for months. There's lots of reasons to get hyped for hubs knowing that a camp is the perfect scenario for hubs."
Except it wasn't a camp, it was a prison.
"Nope, telltale planted that illusion in our heads."
Which coincides with my post. You take the information and warp it into your own story.
"I don't remember season 1 characters going in full depth about their lives yet we still cared about them from just talking with them. Troy was such a crap character that by the time I was setting up the loudspeakers at the camp i had already forgotten he existed. When he popped out of nowhere at the end i said "what the fuck did i really forget about this asshole?". The fact that Troy was mute for the entire episode 2 should tell you something about the writers having some sort of trouble dealing with all the introductions of all these new characters."
I admit I over exaggerrated lol. But most of the characters we came to love in season 1 wasn't only because of talking. Their actions made us truly appreciate them as characters.
"Yes, they need to explain at least some of it, not leave ALL of it to be forgotten. Throwing random information everywhere that will never be explained just for the sake of meeting that 90 minute mark is just plain bad writing."
The season isn't over yet. You don't know, I don't know, nobody knows what is going to happen. The story could wrap up beautifully for all we know.
"Should they even bring them back? How would that even work?. Bring them back as enemies seeking revenge for killing Carver? Wouldn't work because almost everyone in there including Tavia didn't seem so fond of Carver. That plus the fact that they're all determinant with your DLC actions would just create more issues. I think we're done with the 400 days characters except for Bonnie, Eddie and MAYBE Nate."
Like you said, they seem to not agree with Carver. They could of escaped the "camp" and scattered all around maybe making appearances later in the story.
Like the first post said those are some rather silly arguments, they kind of seem like you're just justifying telltale's direction with the … moreepisode.
"HUBS- Telltale never confirmed hubs in episode 3 yet you overhyped yourselves with the game's file size. It's hard to have a hub in prison when your every action is controlled."
Telltale takes feedback to add into the next episodes. After episode 1 and 2 everyone cried about wanting hubs back. The file size sparked some hope that we may finally get hubs back after everyone wanted them back for months. There's lots of reasons to get hyped for hubs knowing that a camp is the perfect scenario for hubs.
" CARVER- You created the illusion that Carver was the villain of the series and expected some sort of Governor/Negan character. Carver was just the seed that will lead Clementine to either, be a better person or lose her humanity and finish what Carver started."
Nope, telltale pl… [view original content]
I totally agree with you point, at least when it comes to the writing of the story. However, when it comes to gameplay, people can have valid complaints. The desire for hub areas is one example, also wanting more interaction (for example, watching Clementine walk somewhere and do something in a cutscene, as opposed to controlling her character and doing it ourselves). Wanting these things and having them happen, would not really have any bearing on the unpredictability of the story, but they would make the game a little more fun. Personally, I thought the last episode was good. They gave us at least one hub (the "prison") that I can think of. When I saw it, I thought to myself that Telltale may have listened to all the requests (they also gave us one in Ep. 2, at the ski lodge). It was a small hub and it didn't last very long, but it made me hopeful that they do listen to their fans when it comes to what we want out of a game. Now, when fans start wishing for certain things to happen in the story, I agree with you. It would take away from the unpredictability of everything. I'd rather be surprised, which is why I don't read about achievements or go on the forum until I've played the latest episode.
Something people keep forgetting over and over again is that the walking dead universe wouldn't be the walking dead universe if the things i… moren it happened even remotely close to how we wanted it to go.
That's unless we dig into the files, but that'd be like talking to Robert Kirkman and having him tell you what'll happen 50 comics later before they're released. I just can't understand file diggers, especially if they're telltale TWD fans.
Yeah, what was up with Carlos being gone the whole time? That's a good point. I was just starting to really like him. That was unfortunate. I would like to know more about Sarita too. I know nothing about her. Season 1 gave us tiny back-stories on everyone in the group. I hope they give us more about our characters in the coming episodes. You have a good point about the 'camp'. Where is it? Where are these masses of people? Hopefully, we didn't see it because we were relegated to a tiny area the entire time. Maybe we'll see it and all the people next episode. I hope we do. I want to see the full scale of how big his camp was. You have some good points, even though I really enjoyed the episode.
I'd honestly say that I don't need a Shakespearean soliloquy but at least more time to flesh out some of the characters or give them purpose… more. Sarita was only there to cry about Kenny and do nothing. Nick & Alvin basically aren't there. Carlos is gone the majority of the episode. The 400 days characters are just cameos(discounting Bonnie who always joins Tavia in 400 days). Mike and Jane don't do much for most of the episode.
For the most part the episode was fine but just lacked a bit of substance with how "undercooked" everything feels. Carver's camp didn't feel like a huge fort. It felt more like a large room and some smaller rooms because of how little of it you get to see and then it much is over with as everyone escapes it by the end.
This is silly, it makes sense to talk to them. Lots of them didn't seem to like it there. No one said they want a life story out of them, just interactions
I completely agree, people imagined a 3 hour long episode with huge hubs, being able to talk to the 400 Days characters (Which is dumb, the … morerest of the 400 Days crew are just guards. They don't know Clem and they don't want to know Clem.) every character telling their life story to Clementine in the middle of a bad situation and people from Season 1 returning. (Which would be bad writing, Macon and Virginia are very far away from each other)
And what do we get? A one hour and forty minute episode with plenty of interactions with characters and action sequences, as well as heart-racing moments. And people cry like babies because they didn't get their perfectly constructed Build-A-Bear episode that they thought they would.
Thank you for this! Yes I agree that I come off as rude, I just find it hard to put my thoughts into words like most people here. I just felt like the episode needed some back up as many threads are nitpicking every single detail. I respect people's opinion on the episode, I just get the feeling that many raise their expectations through the roof.
I'll explain why I think some of your arguments don't really hold water. I think that people disliked the episode for different reasons, the… morey weren't necessarily expecting something based off the achievements. Secondly, just because someone didn't like certain aspects of the episode doesn't mean that they don't have valid complaints and it doesn't mean that they didn't like the episode at all. Some people have a more critical eye. I think if you're going to make the argument that people are just being critical because they were expecting some made-up version of the game, then you can make the argument that the vehement fans of EVERY single episode are so complimentary about the episodes because they'll take anything Telltale makes and call it gold.
Yes, there are people who will never be satisfied, but there are also people who are ALWAYS satisfied and will balk at any criticism directed at Telltale. Either extreme can be obnoxious, but… [view original content]
Thanks! I'm an actor IRL, and so I'm really passionate about storytelling. TWD's sort of rekindled the spark in me that's interested in studying and potentially pursuing writing for games instead of just the stage. So, these discussions are always really interesting to me to read, even if I don't participate often.
I'm glad to see that there are plenty of folks like you who are vocal about how great this episode was. It's all a perspective thing, really.
Wow. People really are angry that some people didn't like this episode, huh?
Yeah, the episode exists in it's current state. There's no changing it. There's no "fixing" it. It's done; but we are gamers. We are a society of various types of players. Some of us prefer FPS, others enjoy RTS, some of us love RPGs. There are Metroidvania fans, and there are Classic-vania fans. There are those that like how Ep.3 went, and there are those that don't like how Ep.3 went. I'm one of those that didn't enjoy it, and we exist. We're not going away. We'll be here on the forums. With you. You're just going to have to deal with it.
Holy shit! Thank you for pointing all of these out! I get that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to say that there was no character development because of no HUBS is just ridiculous. Why? Because the character development IS FUCKING THERE!!
I didn't even hope for that any of that stuff you listed or look at the achievements. I was still just disappointed in the direction the story seems to be going.
Let us see where the next months take us. Right now is a good time as any to butt heads, I guess. Not like it will change a thing, but... you know. I mean no serious offense to you guys, but I would not let you have it your way for what little is left of this season, if I had the option.
I said some days ago that I think they are one effective tool in character development, but by no means the only one. There is character development, for sure, it's just lackluster IMO. We know the basics, but I don't know about you, I care little about these people in the long run. That is sad. That should not really be the case.
The spotlight is tight as it is, and our characters are begging to be in it some more. This helps. This is an effective tool, man, no need to get rid of it. It improves the episode in various ways.
Holy shit! Thank you for pointing all of these out! I get that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to say that there was no chara… morecter development because of no HUBS is just ridiculous. Why? Because the character development IS FUCKING THERE!!
this episode had several memorable moments that were (imo) the best in the series, Clem is freaking growing up right in front of our eyes people..the choices she made this episode weren't the choices of a child, but the choices of someone coming into her own in a new world.
Thank you for this! Yes I agree that I come off as rude, I just find it hard to put my thoughts into words like most people here. I just fel… moret like the episode needed some back up as many threads are nitpicking every single detail. I respect people's opinion on the episode, I just get the feeling that many raise their expectations through the roof.
I completely agree, people imagined a 3 hour long episode with huge hubs, being able to talk to the 400 Days characters (Which is dumb, the … morerest of the 400 Days crew are just guards. They don't know Clem and they don't want to know Clem.) every character telling their life story to Clementine in the middle of a bad situation and people from Season 1 returning. (Which would be bad writing, Macon and Virginia are very far away from each other)
And what do we get? A one hour and forty minute episode with plenty of interactions with characters and action sequences, as well as heart-racing moments. And people cry like babies because they didn't get their perfectly constructed Build-A-Bear episode that they thought they would.
I'm not disappointed about the episode, it was done up to a good standard. However reading one of the thread made me hate the mistake of killing carver and not giving us a choice of who to follow (kenny, luke or carver). I under that could be a lot of work for telltales, that why the didn't do it but still a disappointment on what episode 3 could have been.
Comments
That's unless we dig into the files, but that'd be like talking to Robert Kirkman and having him tell you what'll happen 50 comics later before they're released. I just can't understand file diggers, especially if they're telltale TWD fans.
I respect your opinion
For the most part the episode was fine but just lacked a bit of substance with how "undercooked" everything feels. Carver's camp didn't feel like a huge fort. It felt more like a large room and some smaller rooms because of how little of it you get to see and then it much is over with as everyone escapes it by the end.
- 400 Days Characters: I enjoyed 400 Days for what it was. If they find a way to work those characters back into Clem's story more, I would like that. If they don't, then 400 Days was like a "special issue" comic book where I got to look through the eyes of some other characters for an hour or so. I don't mind that. In my 400 Days play-through, almost nobody went with Tavia, and so there's the possibility that I might get more cameos of them out in the wilderness in upcoming episodes. Cool. If not, I'm still going to enjoy the story (a story which I've never NOT enjoyed thus far).
- Carver: I think folks expected this guy to be the sort of long-term villain that they've seen in the Governor/Negan. I never really expected that. Some folks felt that Carver was underdeveloped. I think that Carver had a reasonable amount of development for his life-span within this story. Because we're playing through the POV of Clem, we're not going to get the same sort of development that we might get in the comic or TV show for an antagonist; the development of those "long-term" villains in those other mediums relied on switching to those villains' point-of-views. Different medium. I liked Carver; he has acted as a catalyst this season, and whatever the story is driving towards in its finale will no doubt be a result of Carver's affect on these characters. Cool.
- HUBs: This is one of those complaints that I can relate to, moreso than the others. I dig adventure games. I liked the light puzzle aspects that we had more of in Season One. I hope that we have more opportunities for "HUB" situations in the future, but I don't see a lack of those situations for being the herald of the series' failure. There's a more focused view on the arc of the narrative right now. That's obviously the approach that they've taken. It's different, but I'm still loving every minute of the game, just as I did back in Season One.
- New Characters: A lot of folks are finding it harder to connect to the new characters. For me, my favorite TWD characters have been Lee, Clem, Kenny, Carley, Lilly, Mollie, Pete, Luke and Bonnie. Those are the ones that I felt most connected to, and some of those characters are from this season. Some of them managed to make a big impact on me with just one episode. It's The Walking Dead: characters are going to disappear, or die, and we're going to meet new characters that are awesome. I like that! And I also think that the addition of Mike and Jane this episode was good. Both of those characters are interesting to me. I think a lot of folks miss Lee a lot, and I dig that. I miss him too. And I remember it (and Clem remembers it) every moment that I'm playing Season Two. When I chose to let Clem indulge in her dark side towards the end of this episode, I imaged Lee watching her. Scared for what she might become. When she found herself surrounded at the end, and proved just how capable she is at surviving and helping others, I imagined Lee's approval. I like to imagine him as a constant ghost for Clem, now, and that is something truly unique to this game and this story. Different, but cool.
- Gameplay: Well, this is really just a preference opinion on the type of game that The Walking Dead is. It used to have a little more adventure (exploration, puzzles) in it, to be certain, but the overall style of game hasn't changed much. And it's not its adventure elements that impressed me, because that was never the focus. The focus was this story that you help to craft; sure, some of the big decisions you make might lead you down similar paths no matter what (because those are the limitations of playing a game, as opposed to writing your own story where anything can happen). But as an episodic, TV-like approach to Game Design, it's truly an incredible experience. And that's what it's meant to be.
- Plot Holes: I find myself on the other side of this situation with many different titles. A lot of folks were bothered by the lack of answers in LOST's final season (or not happy with the answers they got, because they didn't match up with what they expected to happen). Not me. I was too interested in the characters and their development. It's the same here (to a lesser degree). I don't know what happened to Lilly or if I will ever see her again, and neither does Clem. That's with her. I don't know who Alvin murdered and what the story was there, and neither does Clem. She carries that with her. It's realistic.
Overall, I think that critics and detractors oftentimes tend to be more vocal than supporters, when it comes to storytelling mediums. That's okay. Everybody looks for different things when they approach a story. I just felt disconnected from the complaints about this episode. It falls in the top three of my favorite episodes so far, of either season (along with S1Ep2 and S1Ep5). I'll go back to silently reading, now, most likely. I just felt this episode could use another voice of support, because I loved it.
"HUBS- Telltale never confirmed hubs in episode 3 yet you overhyped yourselves with the game's file size. It's hard to have a hub in prison when your every action is controlled."
Telltale takes feedback to add into the next episodes. After episode 1 and 2 everyone cried about wanting hubs back. The file size sparked some hope that we may finally get hubs back after everyone wanted them back for months. There's lots of reasons to get hyped for hubs knowing that a camp is the perfect scenario for hubs.
" CARVER- You created the illusion that Carver was the villain of the series and expected some sort of Governor/Negan character. Carver was just the seed that will lead Clementine to either, be a better person or lose her humanity and finish what Carver started."
Nope, telltale planted that illusion in our heads.
" CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT- Do you want every single person to give you a Shakespearean monologue talking about their life? This is like real life, people either don't have nothing to hide/say or don't care about you to tell you. Also, they're in the middle of a survival situation where people's past isn't as important as their present. Their actions are enough to show us if they are worth caring for or not."
I don't remember season 1 characters going in full depth about their lives yet we still cared about them from just talking with them. Troy was such a crap character that by the time I was setting up the loudspeakers at the camp i had already forgotten he existed. When he popped out of nowhere at the end i said "what the fuck did i really forget about this asshole?". The fact that Troy was mute for the entire episode 2 should tell you something about the writers having some sort of trouble dealing with all the introductions of all these new characters.
" WRITING- A lot of people complain about the story having many unexplained things. Do we really need Telltale to babysit us and explain every single detail to us so we can understand and read between the lines?"
Yes, they need to explain at least some of it, not leave ALL of it to be forgotten. Throwing random information everywhere that will never be explained just for the sake of meeting that 90 minute mark is just plain bad writing.
"400 DAYS- We still have 2 episodes to interact with the 400 days characters so relax."
Should they even bring them back? How would that even work?. Bring them back as enemies seeking revenge for killing Carver? Wouldn't work because almost everyone in there including Tavia didn't seem so fond of Carver. That plus the fact that they're all determinant with your DLC actions would just create more issues. I think we're done with the 400 days characters except for Bonnie, Eddie and MAYBE Nate.
Now just like @TheGoodTheBadTheDead said about the achievements. They really didn't make me create my own episode in my head. The trailer showed about 80% of what the achievements said and i'm sure A LOT more people saw the trailer instead of the achievements.
Yes, there are people who will never be satisfied, but there are also people who are ALWAYS satisfied and will balk at any criticism directed at Telltale. Either extreme can be obnoxious, but I think most people who play fall in between, and are more balanced. I, personally, really enjoyed this last episode. I don't have very many complaints, but I can appreciate other people's opinions when they're offering up an intelligent criticism. I don't think it's right to make assumptions about them just because they have a different take on the execution of the episode than I do. I think you're painting with a very broad brush. There are perpetual complainers and perpetual fanboys, but most people are not like this. Most people WANT to enjoy the game, some do and some don't and they all have their own reasons. One person's opinion is no more or less valid than the next.
They're entitled to wish for hubs. It's not a ridiculous thing to hope for, given that they were a much-loved, frequently-used feature of the first season. Wishing for more character development is not a bad thing either. Wanting to see more of Carver is a perfectly normal thing to want, in my opinion. While I loved the episode, I would have like more Carver. He was a good villain with a great voice actor. A lot of the things you listed are reasonable criticisms, even if you and I enjoyed the episode regardless. Not everyone is going to feel the same way and that's fine. I think that's what the forum is for, to debate these things. The problem is when people ONLY criticize or ONLY praise. There's no room for debate when people are on either extreme. That's just my opinion on the whole matter.
However, I was not exactly 'happy' either. Some of the characters were very bland this episode, such as Luke and Nick. Potential chances at character development were lost, for old characters and new, and now I feel like quite a few of the current group are simply waste ready to be trashed when the time comes for them to die. The prison seemed like a great opportunity to cause long-term drama and turmoil as well, but it ended up feeling rushed to keep the story moving.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the episode... I just feel there was much to be improved on. For two months of waiting, anyway. Which in about that time, episode 2 shined(well, besides the lack of HUBS). Eh, just my opinion.
"Telltale takes feedback to add into the next episodes. After episode 1 and 2 everyone cried about wanting hubs back. The file size sparked some hope that we may finally get hubs back after everyone wanted them back for months. There's lots of reasons to get hyped for hubs knowing that a camp is the perfect scenario for hubs."
Except it wasn't a camp, it was a prison.
"Nope, telltale planted that illusion in our heads."
Which coincides with my post. You take the information and warp it into your own story.
"I don't remember season 1 characters going in full depth about their lives yet we still cared about them from just talking with them. Troy was such a crap character that by the time I was setting up the loudspeakers at the camp i had already forgotten he existed. When he popped out of nowhere at the end i said "what the fuck did i really forget about this asshole?". The fact that Troy was mute for the entire episode 2 should tell you something about the writers having some sort of trouble dealing with all the introductions of all these new characters."
I admit I over exaggerrated lol. But most of the characters we came to love in season 1 wasn't only because of talking. Their actions made us truly appreciate them as characters.
"Yes, they need to explain at least some of it, not leave ALL of it to be forgotten. Throwing random information everywhere that will never be explained just for the sake of meeting that 90 minute mark is just plain bad writing."
The season isn't over yet. You don't know, I don't know, nobody knows what is going to happen. The story could wrap up beautifully for all we know.
"Should they even bring them back? How would that even work?. Bring them back as enemies seeking revenge for killing Carver? Wouldn't work because almost everyone in there including Tavia didn't seem so fond of Carver. That plus the fact that they're all determinant with your DLC actions would just create more issues. I think we're done with the 400 days characters except for Bonnie, Eddie and MAYBE Nate."
Like you said, they seem to not agree with Carver. They could of escaped the "camp" and scattered all around maybe making appearances later in the story.
For me this episode was a real and brutal masterpiece! and if this episode was already at this level. man! the remaining two will be a total madness!!
I'm glad to see that there are plenty of folks like you who are vocal about how great this episode was. It's all a perspective thing, really.
Yeah, the episode exists in it's current state. There's no changing it. There's no "fixing" it. It's done; but we are gamers. We are a society of various types of players. Some of us prefer FPS, others enjoy RTS, some of us love RPGs. There are Metroidvania fans, and there are Classic-vania fans. There are those that like how Ep.3 went, and there are those that don't like how Ep.3 went. I'm one of those that didn't enjoy it, and we exist. We're not going away. We'll be here on the forums. With you. You're just going to have to deal with it.
I said some days ago that I think they are one effective tool in character development, but by no means the only one. There is character development, for sure, it's just lackluster IMO. We know the basics, but I don't know about you, I care little about these people in the long run. That is sad. That should not really be the case.
The spotlight is tight as it is, and our characters are begging to be in it some more. This helps. This is an effective tool, man, no need to get rid of it. It improves the episode in various ways.
...i agree with every word in your post