Episode 4 butchered the season
I felt the writers hand here. I felt it more than any other episode. Now, im sure, the writers had no idea what to do with this episode, It felt poorly presented, rushed, phoned in and sloppy. Without a doubt, this episode failed. I must express my opinion, as I feel cheated by Telltale.
We are given choice. Yes, I understand that this is Clem's story and not my story, but we are given choice. As such, for these decisions, we should be given something-a feeling. A feeling of satisfaction for getting the result we wanted. A feeling of regret for getting the result we tried to avoid.
Episode one did this pretty well. Oh sure, I knew it was all just an illusion, but I played it gladly. making my choices...because the writers justified my choices. Sure, there was no way I could save Ben for example...but dropping him at the tower or keeping him alive had weight. If we kept him alive...his presence STILL had an impact on the story....and sure, he died eventually, but I felt justified in saving him. The writer's gave me a response. I felt regret when I dropped him. I felt like a total douche...even on a second play through...the writers handled it well.
I played this episode through with indifference. Nick's "death" set the tone. Why telltale? Why even give us the choice to save him in episode 2 if you were going to keep him as a MUTE in episode 3, and sweep him under the rug in episode 4? I feel cheated. My choice wasnt even remotely validated Why bother even saving him? Clearly, this was a character the writers didnt know how to use....and its painfully evident. I felt a little cheated from Alvin, but here, there's no shaking it. None of the choices have led up to ANYTHING-even in the smallest sense of the word. Season 1 gave us little things for our choices...not much...Season 2, as I recall so far, has given us a juice box, The illusion is broken. My choices have meant nothing of even the smallest relevance. I had no part in anything. In fact, I replayed a few scenarios repeatedly....and most everything stays exactly the same regardless of choices...even dialogue.
Sarah. I saved Sarah. Only for her to remain a mute the rest of the episode until her inevitable death. Again, why present the option to save her and not give any validation for doing so? I would actually be MORE satisfied if the option werent even presented in the first place....I feel cheated. Telltale...just to say, I would watch this as a film. I really would. id buy it and love it....but you are giving the players choices and you need to cater to that, You need to validate them in more ways than just keeping the character alive, unscripted, to die later on with no point for havimg survived at all. Season 1 did this. Season 2 fails at it. These "choices," are not so different from the old school yes/no rpg choices.
"do you want ice cream or pizza?" "I want ice cream." "here's pizza. I dont actually have ice cream"
But...telltale offered ice cream OR pizza. I chose ice cream! To put it simply, if you had just given me the pizza in the first place, with no choice, Id have been happy and satisfied. But because the choice was given and I chose ice cream, I feel tricked, cheated, disappointed and pissed off. While season 1 did this as well, it did it in a different way.
"What do you have." "we only have ice cream, but we have different flavours."
Episode 1 didnt cheat me. Though I knew my choices were of no MAJOR consequence, the cosmetics an dynamics of the result still made me feel like my choice was worth something. Carley and doug survive 2 episodes and STILL play relatively big roles in the story. I can go look for clean alone, or with others. I can cut off my arm leaving Lee's character model permanently altered...and I believe...he doesnt get sick as fast etc etc.
Season 2...Alvin gave me a juice box. I could sip it. I could mention alvin gave me a juice box. I saved nick. Nick became a mute. he died undramatically later. In season 1, my final words to her were to stay away from towns and cities...not worth it. Kenny and the gorup wanna go to the nearby town. Clem had NO problem.
Furthermore, why did Alvo say I robbed him? I remember very clearly that i didnt.
How did NO ONE notice Rebecca turning and not consider it a problem? Did you guys forget about Christa? Remember her? She is STILL an open plot thread and it's TOO late to resolve it. To resolve it in the final episode would be sloppy and unsatisfactory. Clem hasnt even mentioned her or seems concerned anymore. It would be strange in the next episode to just....change it around. Rebecca...just died kind of like that eh? Quietly. No mention that she FELT like she was dying....at THAT moment? Ok Telltale...ok. Telltale writers....the characters feel inconsistent...changing personality episode by episode. Mike? Really? He feels VERY different than he did from Episode 3. Funny guy...reminds me of Lee. Jane just...suddenly wants to open up to me eh? Just like that. Wow, Clem REALLY has a way with people. No...thats sarcasm. I rolled my eyes when jane began talking about her sister for no reason. It is not believable. There was no reason for her to do this. Why? Did the staff not have enough time to properly build up to this?
Granted...luke was busy getting his rocks off with Jane...but really, no one noticed a heard of walkers THAT big...moaning and groaning, footsteps...but no one noticed it approaching until it was THAT close. Not believable.Furthermore, I believe Luke character would pause to have sex, I do not believe Jane-a woman who is all business and survival-would.
What was the point of having kenny approaching the herd to "hold them off," while the others escaped. He beat ONE walker. All that hype, that build up...for that? It was miserable. I laughed, i really did. You presented this to us in the trailer as a great climax....but in actuality, it was nothing of the sort.
The list goes on and on...but im tired.The illusion is broken. Indifference has set in. I now know. I will play episode 5, not because im eager to see how my choices played out, but eager to see how the ending plays out. I believe...a film for season 3 would be much more enjoyable now than these "choices," you give. This isnt a game anymore. Player interaction has been reduced to NOTHING. All we had left was choice. Now, thats gone too. Episode 5 will need to wrap up and connect in a briliant and unprecedented way to justify and validate its "choice" system. If it doesnt, and I doubt it will, stop giving us these choices. It makes things worse once we see how shallow they are...and just make a movie. I would watch and pay for a series of walking dead animated movies from you guys...gladly. As of now, the "game" writing, i believe, has gone downhill.
My opinion.
Comments
No episode 3 butchered the season
in my opinion episode 4 saved this season lol
Amen to all of this.
How so?
EDIT: I guess asking a valid question is downvote worthy?
I feel like ep 3 did tbh
Episode 3 gave me the sneaking suspicion that the writers weren't going to handle the story properly...but it was exciting and fun and I didnt get to see how my choices played out....I was hoping some plot threads would be resolved in episode 4. Episode 4 confirmed the writers were handling the "choices" poorly...i saw my choices add up to nothing. It's too late for everything to wrap up cleanly in episode 5. Episode 3 still had me in disbelief and illusion. Episode 4 shattered my disbelief. I saw the writers struggling/giving in to "good enough."
Basically, in episode 3, though i noticed a dip in quality...I could still hold out hope that episode 4 would fix everything. Again, as mentioned...we didnt see the results of our choices yet...still had time. Episode for showed us what our choices meant for some VERY big decisions with no pay off to the player. Thats why i believe episode 4 stands as bad/worse than episode 3. Despite episode 3's dip...I enjoyed it for what it was,
Have to admit that the way Nick "left" the season is pretty unsatisfying
no episode 4 butchered it
Dude i agree with you 100%
Episode 5 will be good after all Nick Breckon will write it
I have faith episode 5 will be good. Nick wrote episode 2 right? Episode 2 was amazing. Yeah...I have faith in Nick...buuuut he has one HELL of a mess to clean up, Telltale...would it hurt to give us a 3 hour episode? There's a lot of clean up that needs to be done to end the season on a high note.
episode 1 and 2
Can someone answer this question? Im curious about this. Does Rebecca die? Like if you dont go to the city in the morning and wait few days, will she be better condition to be alive?
Nope...nothing changes at all. Everything stays the same. Even the dialogue.
I kind of agree with you. As Season 2 progresses, it feels more like a movie with choices that won't affect the dynamics of the story or character's attitudes like in Season 1. The only gripe I had with Episode 4 however, was that it seemed too focused on Jane and not Clementine or the other characters.
For me it's the best episode so far in season 2.
I agree with you on most things but overall this episode was still better than episode 3 by a long shot. I enjoyed the little things they threw in such as the raccoon chase lol There was so much suspense in this episode i hardly had time to think about the episodes lack of reward or consequence. Just glad it had a lot of content.
100% disagree, this episode made the whole season 10X better
"Let's develop Jane for a good 60 minutes of the episode then let's make her disappear :DDDDD"
Sadly agree almost 100%. Just that I was starting to feel like that with episode 3. You put it perfect with "The illusion is broken. Indifference has set in.". When telltale give a hard choice is just doesnt feel hard. I am bored when I need to click. I dont care anymore. I caught my self thinking "yeah right" when I read " ***** will remember that ". All dialog options with Sarah in 1,2,3 episode didnt matter a thing. Nick? Rebecca? The same. Tell me Telltale why should I care about my choices? And this is just the biggest problem. There are a lot of other big problems like characters suddenly changing their personalities.
This was my favourite episode of season two, I disagree.
Are you kidding? This was my favorite episode of the whole season! Maybe even the entire game!
i enjoyed ep4 but i do agree it has issues i also got the 'arvo not robbed' but he says we did... so is that a glitch or is it actual a plot twist arvo is stock piling meds for his ;'sister' seems odd he would be alone with such an important bag... and his slow to move with his leg brace..
seem's me arvo is looking out for him self a bit..
another point is..
how does bonnie and mike NOT SEE THE COAT first considering they've been there longer, and not even consider to try and open the shutter behind the box, i mean ffs mike was looking at the box through out the first search with clem..
this broke immersion to me.
Even the outcome of the gunfight is clear. Mike, Bonnie, Kenny(?) and Sarah (if you saved her) will die and you'll have the chance to either kill Arvo or just leave him at the corpse of his dead sister.
What? Are you serious? first off maybe they didn't want to look at Rebecca because they were about there heads fucking blown off if they looked away! Anyways this was also my favorite episode of season 2
I think Jane stole the medicine after she left our group.
I strongly disagree. I'm even surprised people still don't like Season Two at this point. Thought this episode was even made for people who didn't like In Harm's Way. Me being one of them. And I loved this episode. It revitalised my interest into the series again. There was even more opportunities to walk around and talk to people in this one than any episode before in Season Two. Plus there was always a clear direction on how to carry on the story, instead of accidentally carrying it on because you interacted with a particular object.
Plus the series has always had choices take top priority, and I thought that this episode shows that really well. Some of the choices in this episode were really, really heavy.
I couldn't disagree more.
This episode was about proving something: There is weight in what people say.
Carlos constantly reiterated that Sarah would be broken, Jane said that some people you just can't save. And too bad for you, they were both right. And that's the point. You can't save her. No matter how hard you try, some people just can't be saved in this world. And Jane was right, maybe it is better that way. Think of it like giving the girl the gun in A New Day, you let her give up, just in a different way. Sarah was no different, she was broken, and she couldn't go on.
People complaining about both Kenny and Luke becoming a bit too unlikable for their tastes have failed to see what is constantly thrown at us throughout the entire episode: There comes a time where you have to cut ties. Everything has gone too far, Jane wanted out because she saw that it was coming and she warned you fair and square. Even without the arrival of Arvo's group, Luke and Kenny would have gone at it right then and there once Rebecca died. The group was cracking, and that's the ugly truth.
The main message of the season has been about the worth of family, how strong is that bond. Luke said it, Kenny shows it, Jane has even touched upon it. But what does it mean to Clem? Amid The Ruins was the beginning of the end, showing all these themes smash together before the big finale.
Yes, some choices didn't come to pass. That's the point. You don't get to choose. You simply have to face the truth and decide what to do with it.
(in any case, there was more differences in this single episode than I have seen in the entire series so I don't understand the complaints)
You know your playing as a child in reality your choices won't matter Clem is a kid where as Lee was a strong adult and led the group to the end it's sad but Clem can't lead the group and I like season 2 I mean Season 1 is better I will agree but Season 2 isn't that bad choices don't matter because your a kid.
If a kid walked up to you and said "I think we should stay and rest" yet just up the road is a town possibly full of loot and food and water etc.
Obviously you would ignore the kid because you are the adult now Clem isn't an idiot in fact I dare say next to Mike and Rebecca she's the smartest and does need to lead the group but it makes no sense in reality.
Wait did someone say you can save Sarah?
God damn it..... goes to restart episode 4.
no episodes butchered this season episode 4 is the best episode so far roll on the finale
if you save Sarah at the beginning then she still will die later on
She stole his revolver and even though he gets his medicine back, he could still be considered robbed.
Yes thats unfair, because YOU did not steal from him and Jane is actually gone, but why should Arvo care? He has a bunch of angry looking russian friends and I dont think they are the forgiving type.
I actually had really low expectations with this episode. For example, I knew Nick would be swept under the rug this episode. I was sure of it. I was expecting some half assed disposal of his character, but even though I had low expectations, somehow I was STILL disappointed with how haphazardly they got rid of him. I caught myself thinking, "wow, they didnt even try." I must admit, even tho Sarahs death was unavoidable (of course) and I believe they mishandled her, it still had an emotional twinge. I did feel regret. All my best effort, and I still couldnt save her. I both like and dislike that. I can accept that. But nick's handling felt amateurish and uninspired. I really did roll my eyes at all the personality shifts too. When jane called me to take a walk with her, I called it. I predicted she would open up to me about her dead sister for no reason other than the writers want me to care for Jane. When she started talking, I rolled my eyes and uttered "of course." It was SO out of place. All of my choices were made with a "so what," attitude. In season one, the smallest effect of a choice would usually be a character would be mad at you for an episode or 2. In season 2, not even THAT happens. Kenny or luke will be pissed for one scene then forget it ever happened. TT is dropping the ball
Playing this episode made me literally too depressed to make a reasonable-sounding statement about it...
I have no idea what you people are complaining about
I liked the season so far sure some things could have been better but thats always the case
I kinda find it strange that so many people disliked season 2 because it does not have character development. Then episode 4 is more or less 90 Minutes of character development and it is still disliked. Good, probably not by the same people but I find it funny. And yes, most people who are get the development are dead or gone, but that does not change it.
And yes, I agree with the choices. You just cant save everyone and always get what you which for. You are a character not a god. And sure if you metagame many things do not change, but for me playing it nearly any different bit of dialogue IS something big. It probably helps that I only have one save this season and keep up the illusion easier, but I have several saves while playing Season 1 and it still worked.
Did you mean to reply to me? I didn't say anything about unfair.
No I wanted to reply to the post above you, but I was just too stupid to do so
Your choices as Clem do infact matter, correct me if I'm wrong but in episode 4 Clem had to choose between some tough choices. For an examlpe the part with Kenny and Luke arguing whether if it's better to let Rebecca rest for a couple of days or leave first thing in the morning. Clem's choice, her deciding with whom to side, Luke or Kenny, had a rather huge impact. Clem's decision, who to back up, ultimately paves the way for the rest of the group.
edit: Wrote Christa instead of Rebecca