Thanks, man. I don't take it personally, I just think that if you're gonna disagree, you might as well say why instead of downvoting without saying anything. That's the point of a forum, discussing and/or debating different viewpoints.
No offense, but that’s a pretty arrogant comment. I’m sure you didn’t mean to come off that way, but c’mon man, bad form
Anyways, you should probably try reading some posts that explain why Kenny is unreliable and why Luke is preferable beforehand, posts which you can find on this very thread, instead of only focusing your attention on reasons to love Kenny.
Not saying I support one or the other, but your argument for Kenny is incredibly biased and doesn’t address many of the criticisms people have for the man…
I usually try to upvote only, but since you wanted it
Regarding your post, we need to be clear on the aim. If the aim is to judge Kenny as objectively as possible for instance, then the ski lodge thing probably shows good stuff about him regardless. If the aim however is - as Clem - to figure out if Kenny is the guy for Clem to team up with, then it's highly relevant to know if he only did it because Sarita was in there.
As far as the difference in actions taken, I would argue that it shows the difference between Kenny and Luke. Kenny is all guns blazing because that's what his instinct is telling him to do - what his emotions are all about. Luke meanwhile probably reasons "There's no way I can take this group guns blazing, only a crazy person would attempt that. I know where they'll take them, so I'll see if I can find some other way of helping my group".
Then there's the locking in the shed. Even if Luke hadn't been objecting to it in conversations you overhear, isn't it quite a reasonable precaution to take during a zombie apocalypse? "Oh you've been bit... but it's by a dog??? Well then sure come on in. Why don't you - Ms. Bit-person - go upstairs and play with the other girl here". Hardly think it's unreasonable.
Kenny took a beating for Clem, but it was only a beating meant for Clem because Kenny had dumped that walkie talkie on her in the first place. Thanks Mr. Never-listens-to-anyone-once-I've-got-an-idea-in-to-my-head.
Carver needed to be killed - no argument there. Though he probably just needed a quick whacking, since they were trying to escape. There was really no reason to take extra time for it and draw it out - unless you're acting solely motivated by emotions and whatever comes to you at the time.
Luke fucked up regarding the Jane thing - sure. At least he apologizes for it, and owns up to his mistake. Unlike some other people we could mention whose name starts with a K.
When it comes to making any kind of decision I'd honestly rather have none of those two. They can be advisors, unfortunately that role will never suit Kenny. He's too emotionally unstable to hold any form of leadership role, and he's too stubborn and arrogant to make a good follower. All he'll ever be is in the way - but at least he does make good cannonfodder at times.
I really hope we can finally be rid of him in the final episode. He doesn't necessarily have to die. He can find a boat or have a breakdown, but this time when the group is in a hurry to get away from somewhere (so he can survive by leaning on a tree covered in walker-guts). I don't really care, as long as I don't have to babysit him anymore.
Also, Luke seems easier to work with than Kenny. We've been down this road before in season one where Lilly and Kenny had differing ideas on how to deal with things. While Kenny definitely is a leader (if he's a good one or not is up to you), he doesn't really listen to what others have to say. He's more.. this is the plan. Got it? Good.
The cabin group had more of a democracy, right? In cases where there was a bitten girl found in the woods and when they needed to escape Carver's community, they all had their say and majority won. They're not really afraid to play devils advocate just for the sake of seeing how other plans could work, so this plays into how Luke would likely listen before jumping into action. You can also see this when Kenny and Luke begin arguing over whether or not to stay a couple nights or leave at first light - Luke wants to stay but will concede when Rebecca herself says that she wants to go (this will happen if you agree with Kenny).
Just said this in another thread but it's pretty much my response here too:
I'll still go with Luke over Kenny, though he lost a lot of p… moreoints with me this episode. Kenny's loyalty shifts too easily, you're important to him so long as you stay on his good side, and he's definitely going to be focused on that baby at the expense of everything else. Plus, he's slowly but surely going off the deep-end as a result of the trauma conga line he's gone through. Luke's cracking himself, but not to the same extent at all. I can deal with his coping through occasional bouts of dumbassery better than I can Kenny's violence and rage.
Kenny explicitly tells a little girl, who he knows has gone through unspeakable traumas and has lost even more loved ones than he has that i… moret was all her fault that his girlfriend died and never apologizes (except in one very very specific dialogue choice).
He shoots one of Carver's soldiers even after Clem explicitly warns him against it, leading to Walter's senseless death. As Bonnie rightfully says, Carver only killed Walter because "he was protecting his people and Kenny could've killed [them] all."
He puts the entire group at risk by indulging in his murder porn torture fantasy even after everyone tells him several times to just shoot Carver so they can escape. He never acknowledges that said murder porn torture fantasy is the reason they wasted a half dozen precious minutes they could've used to escape, which led to them being caught by Troy, leading to another half dozen minutes wasted.
The group could've been long gone before… [view original content]
Luke running off to figure out a plan didn't benefit anyone. Yes, he may have thought about the situation more logically, but in the end he just tired himself out and was of no help to anyone the whole episode. Kenny's style is more "kick ass, ask questions later", and he is infamous for not thinking things through completely. The big difference is Kenny at least tried to save his group. It's the apocalypse, often the only way to get by I'd imagine is with violence and force. Kenny also showed he is loyal to his group, and would do absolutely anything to protect his own. Even if Luke's plan ended up working, he still abandoned the group and Clem. Not to say Luke doesn't care, but judging by his actions it's often hard to tell how much he cares.
That's why I said "excluding dropping Clem and locking her in a shed alone". I'm aware that those instances have reasonable explanations behind them, but personally, they pissed me off. keyword: personally.
People seem to forget that it was Luke who requested a walkie talkie, Kenny was going along with Luke's plan. It makes sense to send someone that Luke will recognize to deliver the walkie talkie, not somebody he's never even met. There was no way of knowing that things would go south so quickly. If Luke hadn't been caught trying to steal food, the plan would've gone fine, so in a way, we can pin Kenny losing an eye and Clem getting hurt on Luke. Just saying.
After everything Carver did not only to Kenny, but the whole group, he deserved to die in the worst way. Maybe it didn't need to be dragged out, but that doesn't change the fact that Luke just wanted to tie him up and leave him there. If they had gone with Luke's choice, who knows how many more people would be dead because of that.
Luke apologizing also doesn't negate the fact that he abandoned his post. He chose sex over the safety of his group. He was the first to volunteer for an extremely important job, and in some people's playthroughs it caused Sarah to die. Kenny does apologize if you choose certain dialogues, but that's determinant. There also hasn't exactly been time for Clem and Kenny to have time alone to discuss what went down.
I don't hate Luke, but as far as being more helpful, he just isn't. He's not reliable, Kenny is.
I usually try to upvote only, but since you wanted it
Regarding your post, we need to be clear on the aim. If the aim is to judge Kenny … moreas objectively as possible for instance, then the ski lodge thing probably shows good stuff about him regardless. If the aim however is - as Clem - to figure out if Kenny is the guy for Clem to team up with, then it's highly relevant to know if he only did it because Sarita was in there.
As far as the difference in actions taken, I would argue that it shows the difference between Kenny and Luke. Kenny is all guns blazing because that's what his instinct is telling him to do - what his emotions are all about. Luke meanwhile probably reasons "There's no way I can take this group guns blazing, only a crazy person would attempt that. I know where they'll take them, so I'll see if I can find some other way of helping my group".
Then there's the locking in the shed. Even if Luke hadn't been objecting to it … [view original content]
You're telling me that he has spent "half of the time" sitting in a corner mumbling to himself? Even if it wasn't meant literally, the guy was at least implying that it was something that Kenny has spent a large amount of time doing. It was an exaggeration.
Yeah, Bonnie, Mike, and Kenny were back hours ago. When you go to talk to him, he's still mumbling, Sarita, wherever you are.. god.. please forgive me.
You're telling me that he has spent "half of the time" sitting in a corner mumbling to himself? Even if it wasn't meant literally, the guy w… moreas at least implying that it was something that Kenny has spent a large amount of time doing. It was an exaggeration.
I suppose it did come off arrogant, but oh well. I've read plenty of posts about Luke vs Kenny, and if I were to give those posts a downvote, I'd also give them a reply with it. That's how a proper debate goes. Maybe I'm biased, but that's what happens when people have opposing viewpoints.
No offense, but that’s a pretty arrogant comment. I’m sure you didn’t mean to come off that way, but c’mon man, bad form
Anyways, you sh… moreould probably try reading some posts that explain why Kenny is unreliable and why Luke is preferable beforehand, posts which you can find on this very thread, instead of only focusing your attention on reasons to love Kenny.
Not saying I support one or the other, but your argument for Kenny is incredibly biased and doesn’t address many of the criticisms people have for the man…
I agree with most of what you're saying. Kenny's a lost cause at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled a Shane in episode five.
However "Let's not forget, his decision to leave and find shelter got Rebecca killed." is wrong. If you wait she just dies from hypothermia instead.
You really can't lead when half the time you're sitting in a corner mumbling to yourself while the group is afraid to talk to you.
That is a pretty big exaggeration.
It's quite amazing that we could be so completely in disagreement.
Luke never abandoned the group, hence the working on a plan to save them. Would you rather he just walked back to the lodge, all "Hey guys. I wanna be a prisoner too"?
As for the walkie talkie bit, I doubt we'll ever agree. I'll accept that at least Kenny did take a beating by volunteering.
As to Carver. Here we, once again, see the beauty of Luke over Kenny. Luke will actually defer to the group on decisions. He had a strong opinion, but he was overruled. Kenny could've done it quick, but that wasn't what Kenny wanted, so that isn't what Kenny did.
As far as Luke abandoning his job. It's true. He did. I won't try to defend him. Like I said he apologized, and actually seemed like he learned from it.
That is more than I can say for Kenny. I don't even think it's possible for him to learn from his mistakes, since most of his actions are made on impulse, stemming from emotion. It's just so unpredictable and unstable. And Kenny might apologize in one specific instance, when all the stars align, but that'll just last till the next time something reminds him of his family. There's been plenty of time - at least in ZA terms - for Kenny to apologize. He could've apologized when talking at the statue or when talking in the tent. Heck he could've apologized at some point over the day or two we spent at the observation deck.
I do hate Kenny (as much as I can hate a fictional character at least), and as far as being helpful, he just isn't. He's emotionally unstable and too arrogant to be of use. Luke isn't!
(see what I did there? :P)
PS: Have an upvote to negate the previous downvote
Go right on ahead then.;)
Luke running off to figure out a plan didn't benefit anyone. Yes, he may have thought about the situation more … morelogically, but in the end he just tired himself out and was of no help to anyone the whole episode. Kenny's style is more "kick ass, ask questions later", and he is infamous for not thinking things through completely. The big difference is Kenny at least tried to save his group. It's the apocalypse, often the only way to get by I'd imagine is with violence and force. Kenny also showed he is loyal to his group, and would do absolutely anything to protect his own. Even if Luke's plan ended up working, he still abandoned the group and Clem. Not to say Luke doesn't care, but judging by his actions it's often hard to tell how much he cares.
That's why I said "excluding dropping Clem and locking her in a shed alone". I'm aware that those instances have reasonable explanations behind them, but personally, the… [view original content]
why ppl hate kenny he smash the head of carver after carver did it to him sound fair would have done the same or maybe just shoot him in the head no reason too smash his head in but carver dident feel anything after to hits really! and you do it to walkers all day so maybe its not so hard in this world. then he blames clementine for killing sarita not okay but he just lost someone he loved. if someone did that to me after they lost some they loved i could understand it really! the biggest mistake he did was that he killed walter and arvin in the lodge but again i could happen to anyone he hold hostages you try to save them you kill one he takes one and shoot him right away you dont know what your enemy do again can happen to anyone
why ppl hate luke he drops clementine when he thinks shes bit he fail to let her in the cabin with the rest he fails to stop the walker on the bridge he disappear when they gets taken hostage he come back to help them and he get caught right away he fails to help sara go with him he fails to look out for everyone when he bangs jane i can understand that
so i think im just more a kenny type can agree more with his mistakes than lukes dont think he have done one good usefull thing the entire game but im really starting to think clementine is better of alone for real! i wouldent care if she was alone from the start of season 5
He took a beating for Clementine and nearly died. He killed Carver, who would have killed everybody including the baby before letting any o… moref them leave. He birthed Rebecca's baby during the zombie apocalypse. Lee would be beyond proud of Kenny. Kenny has lost so much but still has so much love and strength inside of him.
Just gonna reply to your claim that Kenny's "reliable" and "loyal" since I honestly don't care all that much about Luke :P...
Kenny can be reliable, yes. But the problem is that he's not always reliable... Which basically means that he's unreliable.
Remember how he left Shawn to die? Granted, he does admit he screwed up there, but him admitting to his unreliability doesn't make him... well, reliable in any way. Or remember how he was willing to let both Lee and Clem to die just because Lee didn't kiss his ass? Or how he got drunk in an incredibly inopportune situation? (Sure, he lost his family, but Lee and Clem and several other characters didn't allow their losses to impede the group) Or how he refuses to listen to Clem's warnings and senselessly shoots Jonny, leading to Walter's death? Or how he completely ignores Sarita's pleas to end her suffering, condemning her to a slow and painful death all because he was unable to accept reality and put his own selfish hopes above the wishes of someone he claimed to love?
Not part of his circle of super-duper loved ones? You're cannon fodder to Kenny. And considering how he treated Sarita in her last moments, I'd even say that, as of Amid The Ruins, even the people Kenny loves aren't safe from his unreliability.
Kenny is not reliable. Whatever problems I have with him, I'm sure he's a good guy at heart, at least started as a good guy. But he's not reliable. Never was, likely never will be. He is the antithesis of reliable.
Go right on ahead then.;)
Luke running off to figure out a plan didn't benefit anyone. Yes, he may have thought about the situation more … morelogically, but in the end he just tired himself out and was of no help to anyone the whole episode. Kenny's style is more "kick ass, ask questions later", and he is infamous for not thinking things through completely. The big difference is Kenny at least tried to save his group. It's the apocalypse, often the only way to get by I'd imagine is with violence and force. Kenny also showed he is loyal to his group, and would do absolutely anything to protect his own. Even if Luke's plan ended up working, he still abandoned the group and Clem. Not to say Luke doesn't care, but judging by his actions it's often hard to tell how much he cares.
That's why I said "excluding dropping Clem and locking her in a shed alone". I'm aware that those instances have reasonable explanations behind them, but personally, the… [view original content]
I used to not like Kenny but I have to give him respect. He survive all this time lost so many people and almost died to save either ben or Christa he looks like he had it the worst out of ALL of The walking dead characters all of season 1 characters, Jane, 400 days ppl, Luke, Carlos, and probably carver. Only one who probably has gone though worst was clementine plus Luke threw clementine on floor when he thought she was bit. So Kenny all the way he may go nuts sometimes but he "Got a thick skull"
He still left them high and dry though. He could've at least stayed to fight. It's possible if there were two people with guns outside we may have had the advantage to kill Carver and his crew.
Of course the group wouldn't want to kill Carver (except Rebecca), they were too scared to make a call that deals with someone's life. That's why it's essential to have someone who is willing to get blood on there hands, whether it was fueled by revenge or not, Kenny still protected the group. Luke is more passive, and wants to appease everyone. But realistically you can never appease everyone. There will always be difficult decisions such as these to make.
Kenny and Luke are very different people. Where Luke shows he's sorry by verbally apologizing, Kenny shows it through action. By taking charge of the situation, such as with Rebecca going into labor, by being kinder to Clem later with the baby, by making the difficult decisions. I know someone like Kenny in real life, so I guess that is why it's so easy for me to understand his character, and why he does what he does. A verbal apology is great and all, but I'd rather have somebody take action and show me how much they care instead of just with words.
It's quite amazing that we could be so completely in disagreement.
Luke never abandoned the group, hence the working on a plan to save th… moreem. Would you rather he just walked back to the lodge, all "Hey guys. I wanna be a prisoner too"?
As for the walkie talkie bit, I doubt we'll ever agree. I'll accept that at least Kenny did take a beating by volunteering.
As to Carver. Here we, once again, see the beauty of Luke over Kenny. Luke will actually defer to the group on decisions. He had a strong opinion, but he was overruled. Kenny could've done it quick, but that wasn't what Kenny wanted, so that isn't what Kenny did.
As far as Luke abandoning his job. It's true. He did. I won't try to defend him. Like I said he apologized, and actually seemed like he learned from it.
That is more than I can say for Kenny. I don't even think it's possible for him to learn from his mistakes, since most of his actions are made on impulse, stemming fr… [view original content]
So... Kenny "protected" the group by beating a man to death in the most unnecessarily drawn out and ridiculously brutal fashion imaginable in a time sensitive situation in which it was prudent that the group escape immediately?
Sure, Carver needed to die, but that doesn't change the fact that the group should've just shot Carver, and that Kenny put the escape plan and the entire group at risk with his uncontrolled bloodlust. Let's not kid ourselves, protecting the group was not Kenny's primary concern. It was revenge.
He still left them high and dry though. He could've at least stayed to fight. It's possible if there were two people with guns outside we ma… morey have had the advantage to kill Carver and his crew.
Of course the group wouldn't want to kill Carver (except Rebecca), they were too scared to make a call that deals with someone's life. That's why it's essential to have someone who is willing to get blood on there hands, whether it was fueled by revenge or not, Kenny still protected the group. Luke is more passive, and wants to appease everyone. But realistically you can never appease everyone. There will always be difficult decisions such as these to make.
Kenny and Luke are very different people. Where Luke shows he's sorry by verbally apologizing, Kenny shows it through action. By taking charge of the situation, such as with Rebecca going into labor, by being kinder to Clem later with the baby, by making the difficult decisions. I know someone… [view original content]
What I also found very interesting is that between Kenny and Lilly, it's pretty much only Kenny who absolutely, violently insists that Lee pick sides. You can't sit on the fence, Lee! Whatever Lee, you've picked your sides! etc.
Meanwhile, Lilly never forces you to side or agree with her. She's not happy if you don't side with her, understandably enough, but she never makes the whole "Kenny vs Lilly" deal into some kind of mega important, life-or-death, one-or-the other dilemma, at least nowhere near the level that Kenny does.
Also, Luke seems easier to work with than Kenny. We've been down this road before in season one where Lilly and Kenny had differing ideas on… more how to deal with things. While Kenny definitely is a leader (if he's a good one or not is up to you), he doesn't really listen to what others have to say. He's more.. this is the plan. Got it? Good.
The cabin group had more of a democracy, right? In cases where there was a bitten girl found in the woods and when they needed to escape Carver's community, they all had their say and majority won. They're not really afraid to play devils advocate just for the sake of seeing how other plans could work, so this plays into how Luke would likely listen before jumping into action. You can also see this when Kenny and Luke begin arguing over whether or not to stay a couple nights or leave at first light - Luke wants to stay but will concede when Rebecca herself says that she wants to go (this will happen if you agree with Kenny).
I just don't have a problem with Luke being a bit squeamish. That's what I'm there for (Clem that is). I have Kennys few good qualities - such as understanding that Carver needs to be deaded - but I'm not fueled by passion and emotion (and thus erratic). People are already deferring to Clem and her counsel, and with good reason.
I just can't see Kenny as much else than a liability. If he would only learn to count to 100 before taking (most of) his actions, and thus give himself time to rethink it, I might like him better. But he can't, he won't and that's fair. I'll keep doing whatever is the opposite of what Kenny thinks is best, and keep looking for a way to get rid of him (dead or alive)
Just a slightly explanatory note: When I first saw Kenny in season 2 I was somewhat pissed; "God dammit. I thought I had gotten rid of that asshole", springs to mind. Then the game kept on wanting me to pretend that I liked him, when all I wanted to do was have Clem show how much Lee rubbed off on her. I honestly think I would've played season 2 differently if Kenny's character was replaced by someone unknown (granted small rewrite would be needed), simply because I was doing my best to align myself opposite of Kenny.
What I'm getting at is, that I'm ever so mildly biased against Kenny. He pissed me off in s1, and then he has the audacity to return. Even if I'm RP'ing as Clem; Lee maybe could've made it if Kenny had joined at the end. At least I (Clem included) know how loyal Kenny is, and it isn't much.
Just trying to make it easier to understand my dislike. I'm not looking for a s1 argument or anything
He still left them high and dry though. He could've at least stayed to fight. It's possible if there were two people with guns outside we ma… morey have had the advantage to kill Carver and his crew.
Of course the group wouldn't want to kill Carver (except Rebecca), they were too scared to make a call that deals with someone's life. That's why it's essential to have someone who is willing to get blood on there hands, whether it was fueled by revenge or not, Kenny still protected the group. Luke is more passive, and wants to appease everyone. But realistically you can never appease everyone. There will always be difficult decisions such as these to make.
Kenny and Luke are very different people. Where Luke shows he's sorry by verbally apologizing, Kenny shows it through action. By taking charge of the situation, such as with Rebecca going into labor, by being kinder to Clem later with the baby, by making the difficult decisions. I know someone… [view original content]
The majority of those reasons are determined by the player. I don't see it as "kissing his ass", but more "I'll have your back if you have mine." Others had lost their family, but had it happened less than a day ago? Right in front of them? I wanted him to shoot Jonny, but I can see why he wouldn't listen to Clem, especially if you don't take his side, it's likely he thinks you don't care what happens to him or his loved ones. To him, you're choosing a group you've just met over him. That coupled with her being a child, and him being the adult; he would think he needs to do the dirty work. It was wrong of him to not end Sarita's suffering(tbh I couldn't understand what she was saying so I don't know if she was pleading for it to end). He didn't want to believe what was happening inevitably. Kenny wasn't in the right mind, but after speaking to Clem a second time he pulls through. Kenny isn't perfect, I'm not denying that.
I actually think that mentality of only protecting your own and nobody else is ideal in the world they're in. You can't be sure that every person you come across is trustworthy, and isn't going to fuck you over. Only caring about your loved ones' safety in the situation they're in isn't condemnable at all. Kenny has his issues, but in the end he pulls through. Granted it depends on your playthrough, but in mine he always had my back as long ago as season 1, and up till now in season 2. Kenny is and always has been reliable in my book.
Just gonna reply to your claim that Kenny's "reliable" and "loyal" since I honestly don't care all that much about Luke :P...
Kenny can b… moree reliable, yes. But the problem is that he's not always reliable... Which basically means that he's unreliable.
Remember how he left Shawn to die? Granted, he does admit he screwed up there, but him admitting to his unreliability doesn't make him... well, reliable in any way. Or remember how he was willing to let both Lee and Clem to die just because Lee didn't kiss his ass? Or how he got drunk in an incredibly inopportune situation? (Sure, he lost his family, but Lee and Clem and several other characters didn't allow their losses to impede the group) Or how he refuses to listen to Clem's warnings and senselessly shoots Jonny, leading to Walter's death? Or how he completely ignores Sarita's pleas to end her suffering, condemning her to a slow and painful death all because he was unable to accept reali… [view original content]
The majority? If anything, the determinant scenes are in the minority of examples of Kenny's unreliability. I'll let the determinant scenes slide since, as you said, not everyone experienced them, but that doesn't change how Kenny is invariably unreliable regardless of whether or not one encounters said scenes.
His getting drunk is a prime example, as is his leaving Shawn, his absolute refusal to deal with Duck until it's far too late, and his moping around in a tent when Rebecca needed his help. Yes, Kenny sometimes pulls through in the end in some scenarios (Rebecca's birth comes to mind), but the fact that you cannot count on him to always be there to help you is what makes him unreliable.
And as for Jonny, Clem tells Kenny "don't shoot. Carver will kill them", referring not only to the cabin group, but also to Sarita and Walter. Why would he think that Clem doesn't care about his loved ones when she explicitly warns him that recklessly shooting random people will get his loved ones killed?
And this brings me back to my original point. Yes, Kenny isn't perfect, yes, Kenny can be relied on sometimes, but the bottom line is that, by definition, Kenny is not reliable.
By the way, Sarita doesn't actually ask Kenny to kill her on screen. When you talk to him later in the tent, he tells you "She didn't want me to wait. But I had to. In case she didn't turn." Wow Kenny. Wow. You let a perfectly decent human being suffer horribly because she couldn't rely on you to do what needed to be done and end her pain.
And the argument that he only protects his own doesn't hold much water either considering what happened to Sarita. Essentially, Kenny doesn't give a damn about anyone outside his personal circle, and even then, the people in his personal circle can't completely rely on him either.
The majority of those reasons are determined by the player. I don't see it as "kissing his ass", but more "I'll have your back if you have m… moreine." Others had lost their family, but had it happened less than a day ago? Right in front of them? I wanted him to shoot Jonny, but I can see why he wouldn't listen to Clem, especially if you don't take his side, it's likely he thinks you don't care what happens to him or his loved ones. To him, you're choosing a group you've just met over him. That coupled with her being a child, and him being the adult; he would think he needs to do the dirty work. It was wrong of him to not end Sarita's suffering(tbh I couldn't understand what she was saying so I don't know if she was pleading for it to end). He didn't want to believe what was happening inevitably. Kenny wasn't in the right mind, but after speaking to Clem a second time he pulls through. Kenny isn't perfect, I'm not denying that.
I actually think … [view original content]
We have no way of knowing what good an extra minute could have done. It may have been beneficial, or made no difference at all. But you are right, it was a time sensitive issue, and Kenny should have realized this. I also know that if I was kidnapped, lost 2 members of my original group, treated like a slave, and had the shit beaten out of me so badly that I lost an eye, if I were given the opportunity to return the favor, I'd do it without a second thought. Yes it was fueled by revenge, but he still eliminated Carver as a threat permanently.
So... Kenny "protected" the group by beating a man to death in the most unnecessarily drawn out and ridiculously brutal fashion imaginable i… moren a time sensitive situation in which it was prudent that the group escape immediately?
Sure, Carver needed to die, but that doesn't change the fact that the group should've just shot Carver, and that Kenny put the escape plan and the entire group at risk with his uncontrolled bloodlust. Let's not kid ourselves, protecting the group was not Kenny's primary concern. It was revenge.
Well, Kenny wasted at least a good dozen minutes, seeing as the group wouldn't have been caught by Troy had they left earlier. Anyways, I can completely understand why Kenny did what he did. I also know that what a reliable person would have done in that situation is put aside his personal feelings, do what needed to be done, and not put his entire group at risk to indulge in his own little torture fantasy.
And you would've done the same thing Kenny did? I wouldn't have the stomach to gruesomely murder someone like that, especially if I had the option to just shoot him. Jeez, I'm not sure whether to respect you or be terrified of you :P
We have no way of knowing what good an extra minute could have done. It may have been beneficial, or made no difference at all. But you are … moreright, it was a time sensitive issue, and Kenny should have realized this. I also know that if I was kidnapped, lost 2 members of my original group, treated like a slave, and had the shit beaten out of me so badly that I lost an eye, if I were given the opportunity to return the favor, I'd do it without a second thought. Yes it was fueled by revenge, but he still eliminated Carver as a threat permanently.
That still does not equate to "half of the time" or even a large portion of the time. It was a one time thing and it's not really a big deal.. especially given the circumstances.
Yeah, Bonnie, Mike, and Kenny were back hours ago. When you go to talk to him, he's still mumbling, Sarita, wherever you are.. god.. please forgive me.
Kenny is broken down. He's gone mentally insane
We definitely are on opposite sides of the spectrum, because I think Luke is the liability here. I keep doing whatever I can to oppose Luke and what he thinks is best. I don't necessarily want to get rid of him, because there is safety in numbers and he is a physically strong adult male with the ability to use weapons. I just want him to shut up and quit trying to be the leader really.
I was ecstatic after learning Kenny was alive. Excluding online forums, I think Kenny's character was overall received positively by fans. Hence why he was brought back in the first place. I can understand why you dislike him, but seeing as Kenny is my favorite, I kind of feel obligated to defend him lol.
I just don't have a problem with Luke being a bit squeamish. That's what I'm there for (Clem that is). I have Kennys few good qualities - su… morech as understanding that Carver needs to be deaded - but I'm not fueled by passion and emotion (and thus erratic). People are already deferring to Clem and her counsel, and with good reason.
I just can't see Kenny as much else than a liability. If he would only learn to count to 100 before taking (most of) his actions, and thus give himself time to rethink it, I might like him better. But he can't, he won't and that's fair. I'll keep doing whatever is the opposite of what Kenny thinks is best, and keep looking for a way to get rid of him (dead or alive)
Just a slightly explanatory note: When I first saw Kenny in season 2 I was somewhat pissed; "God dammit. I thought I had gotten rid of that asshole", springs to mind. Then the game kept on wanting me to pretend that I liked him, when all I wanted to … [view original content]
I think we've already seen that Luke will risk his life for his group (sneaking in to Carver's place - though of course that turned out not to be life or death). Now whether he sees Clem as part of the group yet - I'd say yes, but others might disagree.
Kenny is likely to risk his life for someone. He risked it for Sarita at the lodge. Let's say that he risked it with the walkie talkie (though that wasn't a clear cut life/death situation either). Either way, in my view Kenny will risk his life for Clem depending on his mood at the time. He's too fickle to be reliable, even if he'll at times be willing to take greater risks than Luke.
Luke sucks,
You think i care if someone calls me a bad name, LOL. I been in high school i think i can handle Kenny's tantrum. Kenny is t… morehe only reliable adult taking care of that baby. Everyone knows Luke would abandon it if it meant giving him a higher chance of coming out alive. Luke isn't trustworthy, and i think this episode proves how unreliable he is.
OK Luke fans answer me this: Would Luke risk his life for Clementine as Lee did in Season 1.
Would Kenny?
The sequence between Kenny killing Carver and them leaving is a few minutes at most. I guess it comes down to what you consider reliable. I rely on Kenny to get shit done, regardless of how difficult it can get. He was reliable to me for killing Carver. If he hadn't killed Carver, the group would've been in a lot more danger.
I'm putting myself in their shoes, given the world they now exist in. I'd definitely beat the shit out of Carver, but I'd probably have to finish him off with a gun, seeing as I'm a girl and may lack the physical strength to kill him with just a crowbar. I most likely wouldn't do it in the world we live in, but something to that degree has never happened to me so who knows. I'll take that as a compliment.:)
Well, Kenny wasted at least a good dozen minutes, seeing as the group wouldn't have been caught by Troy had they left earlier. Anyways, I ca… moren completely understand why Kenny did what he did. I also know that what a reliable person would have done in that situation is put aside his personal feelings, do what needed to be done, and not put his entire group at risk to indulge in his own little torture fantasy.
And you would've done the same thing Kenny did? I wouldn't have the stomach to gruesomely murder someone like that, especially if I had the option to just shoot him. Jeez, I'm not sure whether to respect you or be terrified of you :P
We definitely are on opposite sides of the spectrum, because I think Luke is the liability here. I keep doing whatever I can to oppose Luke … moreand what he thinks is best. I don't necessarily want to get rid of him, because there is safety in numbers and he is a physically strong adult male with the ability to use weapons. I just want him to shut up and quit trying to be the leader really.
I was ecstatic after learning Kenny was alive. Excluding online forums, I think Kenny's character was overall received positively by fans. Hence why he was brought back in the first place. I can understand why you dislike him, but seeing as Kenny is my favorite, I kind of feel obligated to defend him lol.
It wasn't the decision to leave that killed Rebecca, giving birth to her kid is what killed her. Quite frankly both Luke and Kenny had their good points; they couldn't stay there forever and they need the supplies and Rebecca did need her rest
My reason for siding with Luke over Kenny.
When you play a rational Lee in Season 1, (at least my rational Lee) Kenny will abandon you an… mored Clem when you need him most. That was when he was still sane.
Now Kenny is losing it. He is definitely one of my favs from the series, and it's hard to have to choose between him and Luke, but at this point Luke is a safer option for Clem. Especially after his reaction to Saritas death. (But Luke sleeping with Jane was a very stupid thing he did still...)
Yeah, and those few minutes wasted is what led to the group getting caught by Troy, wasting even more time. This is a fact; had Kenny not taken so long to kill Carver, the group would have escaped before Troy showed up. They were already done smearing walker guts before he got there, after all.
And come one, if you rely on Kenny to "get shit done, regardless of how difficult it can get", what do you think of how he handled Duck and Sarita? What I see as reliable is someone who I know, with absolute certainty, has the groups best interests at heart and will do what needs to be done to ensure those interests. Kenny frankly does not fit the bill. He did not kill Carver the way he did to protect the group, he did it because of his own personal grudge. If he had cared about the group's well-being, he would've listened to Rebecca and Clem and just shot Carver.
Eh, I'm sure you could kill Carver with just a crowbar regardless of gender. Just a swift jab through the eye and he's dead! Ta-da!
The sequence between Kenny killing Carver and them leaving is a few minutes at most. I guess it comes down to what you consider reliable. I … morerely on Kenny to get shit done, regardless of how difficult it can get. He was reliable to me for killing Carver. If he hadn't killed Carver, the group would've been in a lot more danger.
I'm putting myself in their shoes, given the world they now exist in. I'd definitely beat the shit out of Carver, but I'd probably have to finish him off with a gun, seeing as I'm a girl and may lack the physical strength to kill him with just a crowbar. I most likely wouldn't do it in the world we live in, but something to that degree has never happened to me so who knows. I'll take that as a compliment.:)
Look, the point is, Kenny did mumble to himself for a large portion of time after he lost Sarita. It's not about how long you mumble to yourself we just went offtopic. The point is how are you going to lead a group if you are going insane. Kenny has a mental disorder i can easily tell.. He's even trying to replace his family.
That still does not equate to "half of the time" or even a large portion of the time. It was a one time thing and it's not really a big deal.. especially given the circumstances.
It wasn't the decision to leave that killed Rebecca, giving birth to her kid is what killed her. Quite frankly both Luke and Kenny had their good points; they couldn't stay there forever and they need the supplies and Rebecca did need her rest
Comments
I don't use the down vote to be honest, unless someone is being intentionally mean or rude about something,
Same here.
No offense, but that’s a pretty arrogant comment. I’m sure you didn’t mean to come off that way, but c’mon man, bad form
Anyways, you should probably try reading some posts that explain why Kenny is unreliable and why Luke is preferable beforehand, posts which you can find on this very thread, instead of only focusing your attention on reasons to love Kenny.
Not saying I support one or the other, but your argument for Kenny is incredibly biased and doesn’t address many of the criticisms people have for the man…
I usually try to upvote only, but since you wanted it
Regarding your post, we need to be clear on the aim. If the aim is to judge Kenny as objectively as possible for instance, then the ski lodge thing probably shows good stuff about him regardless. If the aim however is - as Clem - to figure out if Kenny is the guy for Clem to team up with, then it's highly relevant to know if he only did it because Sarita was in there.
As far as the difference in actions taken, I would argue that it shows the difference between Kenny and Luke. Kenny is all guns blazing because that's what his instinct is telling him to do - what his emotions are all about. Luke meanwhile probably reasons "There's no way I can take this group guns blazing, only a crazy person would attempt that. I know where they'll take them, so I'll see if I can find some other way of helping my group".
Then there's the locking in the shed. Even if Luke hadn't been objecting to it in conversations you overhear, isn't it quite a reasonable precaution to take during a zombie apocalypse? "Oh you've been bit... but it's by a dog??? Well then sure come on in. Why don't you - Ms. Bit-person - go upstairs and play with the other girl here". Hardly think it's unreasonable.
Kenny took a beating for Clem, but it was only a beating meant for Clem because Kenny had dumped that walkie talkie on her in the first place. Thanks Mr. Never-listens-to-anyone-once-I've-got-an-idea-in-to-my-head.
Carver needed to be killed - no argument there. Though he probably just needed a quick whacking, since they were trying to escape. There was really no reason to take extra time for it and draw it out - unless you're acting solely motivated by emotions and whatever comes to you at the time.
Luke fucked up regarding the Jane thing - sure. At least he apologizes for it, and owns up to his mistake. Unlike some other people we could mention whose name starts with a K.
When it comes to making any kind of decision I'd honestly rather have none of those two. They can be advisors, unfortunately that role will never suit Kenny. He's too emotionally unstable to hold any form of leadership role, and he's too stubborn and arrogant to make a good follower. All he'll ever be is in the way - but at least he does make good cannonfodder at times.
I really hope we can finally be rid of him in the final episode. He doesn't necessarily have to die. He can find a boat or have a breakdown, but this time when the group is in a hurry to get away from somewhere (so he can survive by leaning on a tree covered in walker-guts). I don't really care, as long as I don't have to babysit him anymore.
Also, Luke seems easier to work with than Kenny. We've been down this road before in season one where Lilly and Kenny had differing ideas on how to deal with things. While Kenny definitely is a leader (if he's a good one or not is up to you), he doesn't really listen to what others have to say. He's more.. this is the plan. Got it? Good.
The cabin group had more of a democracy, right? In cases where there was a bitten girl found in the woods and when they needed to escape Carver's community, they all had their say and majority won. They're not really afraid to play devils advocate just for the sake of seeing how other plans could work, so this plays into how Luke would likely listen before jumping into action. You can also see this when Kenny and Luke begin arguing over whether or not to stay a couple nights or leave at first light - Luke wants to stay but will concede when Rebecca herself says that she wants to go (this will happen if you agree with Kenny).
i agree with some you said but when you say its hes fault for carlos and nick your sound so pafetic and made me laugh are you serious about that ??
Go right on ahead then.;)
Luke running off to figure out a plan didn't benefit anyone. Yes, he may have thought about the situation more logically, but in the end he just tired himself out and was of no help to anyone the whole episode. Kenny's style is more "kick ass, ask questions later", and he is infamous for not thinking things through completely. The big difference is Kenny at least tried to save his group. It's the apocalypse, often the only way to get by I'd imagine is with violence and force. Kenny also showed he is loyal to his group, and would do absolutely anything to protect his own. Even if Luke's plan ended up working, he still abandoned the group and Clem. Not to say Luke doesn't care, but judging by his actions it's often hard to tell how much he cares.
That's why I said "excluding dropping Clem and locking her in a shed alone". I'm aware that those instances have reasonable explanations behind them, but personally, they pissed me off. keyword: personally.
People seem to forget that it was Luke who requested a walkie talkie, Kenny was going along with Luke's plan. It makes sense to send someone that Luke will recognize to deliver the walkie talkie, not somebody he's never even met. There was no way of knowing that things would go south so quickly. If Luke hadn't been caught trying to steal food, the plan would've gone fine, so in a way, we can pin Kenny losing an eye and Clem getting hurt on Luke. Just saying.
After everything Carver did not only to Kenny, but the whole group, he deserved to die in the worst way. Maybe it didn't need to be dragged out, but that doesn't change the fact that Luke just wanted to tie him up and leave him there. If they had gone with Luke's choice, who knows how many more people would be dead because of that.
Luke apologizing also doesn't negate the fact that he abandoned his post. He chose sex over the safety of his group. He was the first to volunteer for an extremely important job, and in some people's playthroughs it caused Sarah to die. Kenny does apologize if you choose certain dialogues, but that's determinant. There also hasn't exactly been time for Clem and Kenny to have time alone to discuss what went down.
I don't hate Luke, but as far as being more helpful, he just isn't. He's not reliable, Kenny is.
You're telling me that he has spent "half of the time" sitting in a corner mumbling to himself? Even if it wasn't meant literally, the guy was at least implying that it was something that Kenny has spent a large amount of time doing. It was an exaggeration.
Yeah, Bonnie, Mike, and Kenny were back hours ago. When you go to talk to him, he's still mumbling, Sarita, wherever you are.. god.. please forgive me.
Kenny is broken down. He's gone mentally insane
I suppose it did come off arrogant, but oh well. I've read plenty of posts about Luke vs Kenny, and if I were to give those posts a downvote, I'd also give them a reply with it. That's how a proper debate goes. Maybe I'm biased, but that's what happens when people have opposing viewpoints.
I agree with most of what you're saying. Kenny's a lost cause at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled a Shane in episode five.
However "Let's not forget, his decision to leave and find shelter got Rebecca killed." is wrong. If you wait she just dies from hypothermia instead.
Kenny is a piece of shit. LUKE FOREVER
THAT'S THE TRUTH
HE ISN'T
Luke is D BEST
It's quite amazing that we could be so completely in disagreement.
Luke never abandoned the group, hence the working on a plan to save them. Would you rather he just walked back to the lodge, all "Hey guys. I wanna be a prisoner too"?
As for the walkie talkie bit, I doubt we'll ever agree. I'll accept that at least Kenny did take a beating by volunteering.
As to Carver. Here we, once again, see the beauty of Luke over Kenny. Luke will actually defer to the group on decisions. He had a strong opinion, but he was overruled. Kenny could've done it quick, but that wasn't what Kenny wanted, so that isn't what Kenny did.
As far as Luke abandoning his job. It's true. He did. I won't try to defend him. Like I said he apologized, and actually seemed like he learned from it.
That is more than I can say for Kenny. I don't even think it's possible for him to learn from his mistakes, since most of his actions are made on impulse, stemming from emotion. It's just so unpredictable and unstable. And Kenny might apologize in one specific instance, when all the stars align, but that'll just last till the next time something reminds him of his family. There's been plenty of time - at least in ZA terms - for Kenny to apologize. He could've apologized when talking at the statue or when talking in the tent. Heck he could've apologized at some point over the day or two we spent at the observation deck.
I do hate Kenny (as much as I can hate a fictional character at least), and as far as being helpful, he just isn't. He's emotionally unstable and too arrogant to be of use. Luke isn't!
(see what I did there? :P)
PS: Have an upvote to negate the previous downvote
why ppl hate kenny he smash the head of carver after carver did it to him sound fair would have done the same or maybe just shoot him in the head no reason too smash his head in but carver dident feel anything after to hits really! and you do it to walkers all day so maybe its not so hard in this world. then he blames clementine for killing sarita not okay but he just lost someone he loved. if someone did that to me after they lost some they loved i could understand it really! the biggest mistake he did was that he killed walter and arvin in the lodge but again i could happen to anyone he hold hostages you try to save them you kill one he takes one and shoot him right away you dont know what your enemy do again can happen to anyone
why ppl hate luke he drops clementine when he thinks shes bit he fail to let her in the cabin with the rest he fails to stop the walker on the bridge he disappear when they gets taken hostage he come back to help them and he get caught right away he fails to help sara go with him he fails to look out for everyone when he bangs jane i can understand that
so i think im just more a kenny type can agree more with his mistakes than lukes dont think he have done one good usefull thing the entire game but im really starting to think clementine is better of alone for real! i wouldent care if she was alone from the start of season 5
Just gonna reply to your claim that Kenny's "reliable" and "loyal" since I honestly don't care all that much about Luke :P...
Kenny can be reliable, yes. But the problem is that he's not always reliable... Which basically means that he's unreliable.
Remember how he left Shawn to die? Granted, he does admit he screwed up there, but him admitting to his unreliability doesn't make him... well, reliable in any way. Or remember how he was willing to let both Lee and Clem to die just because Lee didn't kiss his ass? Or how he got drunk in an incredibly inopportune situation? (Sure, he lost his family, but Lee and Clem and several other characters didn't allow their losses to impede the group) Or how he refuses to listen to Clem's warnings and senselessly shoots Jonny, leading to Walter's death? Or how he completely ignores Sarita's pleas to end her suffering, condemning her to a slow and painful death all because he was unable to accept reality and put his own selfish hopes above the wishes of someone he claimed to love?
Not part of his circle of super-duper loved ones? You're cannon fodder to Kenny. And considering how he treated Sarita in her last moments, I'd even say that, as of Amid The Ruins, even the people Kenny loves aren't safe from his unreliability.
Kenny is not reliable. Whatever problems I have with him, I'm sure he's a good guy at heart, at least started as a good guy. But he's not reliable. Never was, likely never will be. He is the antithesis of reliable.
I used to not like Kenny but I have to give him respect. He survive all this time lost so many people and almost died to save either ben or Christa he looks like he had it the worst out of ALL of The walking dead characters all of season 1 characters, Jane, 400 days ppl, Luke, Carlos, and probably carver. Only one who probably has gone though worst was clementine plus Luke threw clementine on floor when he thought she was bit. So Kenny all the way he may go nuts sometimes but he "Got a thick skull"
He still left them high and dry though. He could've at least stayed to fight. It's possible if there were two people with guns outside we may have had the advantage to kill Carver and his crew.
Of course the group wouldn't want to kill Carver (except Rebecca), they were too scared to make a call that deals with someone's life. That's why it's essential to have someone who is willing to get blood on there hands, whether it was fueled by revenge or not, Kenny still protected the group. Luke is more passive, and wants to appease everyone. But realistically you can never appease everyone. There will always be difficult decisions such as these to make.
Kenny and Luke are very different people. Where Luke shows he's sorry by verbally apologizing, Kenny shows it through action. By taking charge of the situation, such as with Rebecca going into labor, by being kinder to Clem later with the baby, by making the difficult decisions. I know someone like Kenny in real life, so I guess that is why it's so easy for me to understand his character, and why he does what he does. A verbal apology is great and all, but I'd rather have somebody take action and show me how much they care instead of just with words.
(I see that you like to be sarcastic, yes.:P)
Yeah, let's not forget how Clementine is alive (or in one piece) thanks to him...
So... Kenny "protected" the group by beating a man to death in the most unnecessarily drawn out and ridiculously brutal fashion imaginable in a time sensitive situation in which it was prudent that the group escape immediately?
Sure, Carver needed to die, but that doesn't change the fact that the group should've just shot Carver, and that Kenny put the escape plan and the entire group at risk with his uncontrolled bloodlust. Let's not kid ourselves, protecting the group was not Kenny's primary concern. It was revenge.
What I also found very interesting is that between Kenny and Lilly, it's pretty much only Kenny who absolutely, violently insists that Lee pick sides. You can't sit on the fence, Lee! Whatever Lee, you've picked your sides! etc.
Meanwhile, Lilly never forces you to side or agree with her. She's not happy if you don't side with her, understandably enough, but she never makes the whole "Kenny vs Lilly" deal into some kind of mega important, life-or-death, one-or-the other dilemma, at least nowhere near the level that Kenny does.
I just don't have a problem with Luke being a bit squeamish. That's what I'm there for (Clem that is). I have Kennys few good qualities - such as understanding that Carver needs to be deaded - but I'm not fueled by passion and emotion (and thus erratic). People are already deferring to Clem and her counsel, and with good reason.
I just can't see Kenny as much else than a liability. If he would only learn to count to 100 before taking (most of) his actions, and thus give himself time to rethink it, I might like him better. But he can't, he won't and that's fair. I'll keep doing whatever is the opposite of what Kenny thinks is best, and keep looking for a way to get rid of him (dead or alive)
Just a slightly explanatory note: When I first saw Kenny in season 2 I was somewhat pissed; "God dammit. I thought I had gotten rid of that asshole", springs to mind. Then the game kept on wanting me to pretend that I liked him, when all I wanted to do was have Clem show how much Lee rubbed off on her. I honestly think I would've played season 2 differently if Kenny's character was replaced by someone unknown (granted small rewrite would be needed), simply because I was doing my best to align myself opposite of Kenny.
What I'm getting at is, that I'm ever so mildly biased against Kenny. He pissed me off in s1, and then he has the audacity to return. Even if I'm RP'ing as Clem; Lee maybe could've made it if Kenny had joined at the end. At least I (Clem included) know how loyal Kenny is, and it isn't much.
Just trying to make it easier to understand my dislike. I'm not looking for a s1 argument or anything
The majority of those reasons are determined by the player. I don't see it as "kissing his ass", but more "I'll have your back if you have mine." Others had lost their family, but had it happened less than a day ago? Right in front of them? I wanted him to shoot Jonny, but I can see why he wouldn't listen to Clem, especially if you don't take his side, it's likely he thinks you don't care what happens to him or his loved ones. To him, you're choosing a group you've just met over him. That coupled with her being a child, and him being the adult; he would think he needs to do the dirty work. It was wrong of him to not end Sarita's suffering(tbh I couldn't understand what she was saying so I don't know if she was pleading for it to end). He didn't want to believe what was happening inevitably. Kenny wasn't in the right mind, but after speaking to Clem a second time he pulls through. Kenny isn't perfect, I'm not denying that.
I actually think that mentality of only protecting your own and nobody else is ideal in the world they're in. You can't be sure that every person you come across is trustworthy, and isn't going to fuck you over. Only caring about your loved ones' safety in the situation they're in isn't condemnable at all. Kenny has his issues, but in the end he pulls through. Granted it depends on your playthrough, but in mine he always had my back as long ago as season 1, and up till now in season 2. Kenny is and always has been reliable in my book.
The majority? If anything, the determinant scenes are in the minority of examples of Kenny's unreliability. I'll let the determinant scenes slide since, as you said, not everyone experienced them, but that doesn't change how Kenny is invariably unreliable regardless of whether or not one encounters said scenes.
His getting drunk is a prime example, as is his leaving Shawn, his absolute refusal to deal with Duck until it's far too late, and his moping around in a tent when Rebecca needed his help. Yes, Kenny sometimes pulls through in the end in some scenarios (Rebecca's birth comes to mind), but the fact that you cannot count on him to always be there to help you is what makes him unreliable.
And as for Jonny, Clem tells Kenny "don't shoot. Carver will kill them", referring not only to the cabin group, but also to Sarita and Walter. Why would he think that Clem doesn't care about his loved ones when she explicitly warns him that recklessly shooting random people will get his loved ones killed?
And this brings me back to my original point. Yes, Kenny isn't perfect, yes, Kenny can be relied on sometimes, but the bottom line is that, by definition, Kenny is not reliable.
By the way, Sarita doesn't actually ask Kenny to kill her on screen. When you talk to him later in the tent, he tells you "She didn't want me to wait. But I had to. In case she didn't turn." Wow Kenny. Wow. You let a perfectly decent human being suffer horribly because she couldn't rely on you to do what needed to be done and end her pain.
And the argument that he only protects his own doesn't hold much water either considering what happened to Sarita. Essentially, Kenny doesn't give a damn about anyone outside his personal circle, and even then, the people in his personal circle can't completely rely on him either.
We have no way of knowing what good an extra minute could have done. It may have been beneficial, or made no difference at all. But you are right, it was a time sensitive issue, and Kenny should have realized this. I also know that if I was kidnapped, lost 2 members of my original group, treated like a slave, and had the shit beaten out of me so badly that I lost an eye, if I were given the opportunity to return the favor, I'd do it without a second thought. Yes it was fueled by revenge, but he still eliminated Carver as a threat permanently.
Luke: hurrr hurr let me get my dick wet with jane and not keep a look out for walkers, cuz the sex comes first than my friends safety hurr furrr
Well, Kenny wasted at least a good dozen minutes, seeing as the group wouldn't have been caught by Troy had they left earlier. Anyways, I can completely understand why Kenny did what he did. I also know that what a reliable person would have done in that situation is put aside his personal feelings, do what needed to be done, and not put his entire group at risk to indulge in his own little torture fantasy.
And you would've done the same thing Kenny did? I wouldn't have the stomach to gruesomely murder someone like that, especially if I had the option to just shoot him. Jeez, I'm not sure whether to respect you or be terrified of you :P
That still does not equate to "half of the time" or even a large portion of the time. It was a one time thing and it's not really a big deal.. especially given the circumstances.
We definitely are on opposite sides of the spectrum, because I think Luke is the liability here. I keep doing whatever I can to oppose Luke and what he thinks is best. I don't necessarily want to get rid of him, because there is safety in numbers and he is a physically strong adult male with the ability to use weapons. I just want him to shut up and quit trying to be the leader really.
I was ecstatic after learning Kenny was alive. Excluding online forums, I think Kenny's character was overall received positively by fans. Hence why he was brought back in the first place. I can understand why you dislike him, but seeing as Kenny is my favorite, I kind of feel obligated to defend him lol.
I think we've already seen that Luke will risk his life for his group (sneaking in to Carver's place - though of course that turned out not to be life or death). Now whether he sees Clem as part of the group yet - I'd say yes, but others might disagree.
Kenny is likely to risk his life for someone. He risked it for Sarita at the lodge. Let's say that he risked it with the walkie talkie (though that wasn't a clear cut life/death situation either). Either way, in my view Kenny will risk his life for Clem depending on his mood at the time. He's too fickle to be reliable, even if he'll at times be willing to take greater risks than Luke.
The sequence between Kenny killing Carver and them leaving is a few minutes at most. I guess it comes down to what you consider reliable. I rely on Kenny to get shit done, regardless of how difficult it can get. He was reliable to me for killing Carver. If he hadn't killed Carver, the group would've been in a lot more danger.
I'm putting myself in their shoes, given the world they now exist in. I'd definitely beat the shit out of Carver, but I'd probably have to finish him off with a gun, seeing as I'm a girl and may lack the physical strength to kill him with just a crowbar. I most likely wouldn't do it in the world we live in, but something to that degree has never happened to me so who knows. I'll take that as a compliment.:)
Well... It's been fun not convincing you
It wasn't the decision to leave that killed Rebecca, giving birth to her kid is what killed her. Quite frankly both Luke and Kenny had their good points; they couldn't stay there forever and they need the supplies and Rebecca did need her rest
First impressions mean a lot and my Lee wasn't too thrilled that he didn't try to help Hershel's son on the farm when we were attacked.
Yeah, and those few minutes wasted is what led to the group getting caught by Troy, wasting even more time. This is a fact; had Kenny not taken so long to kill Carver, the group would have escaped before Troy showed up. They were already done smearing walker guts before he got there, after all.
And come one, if you rely on Kenny to "get shit done, regardless of how difficult it can get", what do you think of how he handled Duck and Sarita? What I see as reliable is someone who I know, with absolute certainty, has the groups best interests at heart and will do what needs to be done to ensure those interests. Kenny frankly does not fit the bill. He did not kill Carver the way he did to protect the group, he did it because of his own personal grudge. If he had cared about the group's well-being, he would've listened to Rebecca and Clem and just shot Carver.
Eh, I'm sure you could kill Carver with just a crowbar regardless of gender. Just a swift jab through the eye and he's dead! Ta-da!
Look, the point is, Kenny did mumble to himself for a large portion of time after he lost Sarita. It's not about how long you mumble to yourself we just went offtopic. The point is how are you going to lead a group if you are going insane. Kenny has a mental disorder i can easily tell.. He's even trying to replace his family.
Thank you for making a positive contribution into this discussion. NOT!
I lol'd to this one
So... what exactly happened to Luke's first plan of "Rebecca stays put and rests, while Jane and I scout ahead for supplies"???