Dated pop culture references and memes being the soul of your jokes isn't always going to work for everyone, I'm kind of glad that Telltale didn't go in that direction in Zer0 Sum.
While I think Burch's style works well for the main series, I agree it might not have worked as well here. I really enjoyed the different style of this game as it sets it almost in a league of its own and isn't really comparable to the main games.
The meme references weren't really that bad as most people make it out to be. (besides, a lot of it was textual anyway)
If anything: havi… moreng an actual story in Borderlands 2 was a welcome addition than the non-existent one in the vanilla Borderlands.
I'll say it.
Anthony Burch is a terrible writer.
His writing "style" is not suited to any game or any thing of any pace.
Even his HAWP series is only saved by his sister and father's delivery.
Way to pay attention, memebot 3000.
ANYTHING is fun with friends. PRACTICALLY ANYTHING, but once those servers shut down, you will be left … morewith a somehow simultaneously boring and obnoxious, run of the mill FPS that does nothing Fallout 3 doesn't do better.
Yeah, if people don't like the games, that's totally their opinion and they are free to feel that way. You can't make everyone like something, people have different tastes...
It seems more like confirmation bias from Telltale fans who probably haven't actually played Borderlands 2.
From what I've seen of Borderlands 2, the humor isn't actually much different from this episodic series. It's morbid slapstick which nonetheless tries to provide a sense of pathos.
Yeah, if people don't like the games, that's totally their opinion and they are free to feel that way. You can't make everyone like something, people have different tastes...
I do hope he tries to move away from using Jack as the main villain again. We've already had two games where he's arguably the most charismatic character, and I hope this AI Ghost sub-plot is actually a red herring to distract us from the real antagonist.
Yeah, I'd be genuinely curious to see what Burch could do with a more plot-centric game (like Tales). He's undeniably limited within Gearbox… more's Borderlands universe - it's a shoot 'n loot first and foremost, with not a lot of room for constructing narrative.
I've always admired his characterisation, but once again that's within the limitations of an FPS.
It seems more like confirmation bias from Telltale fans who probably haven't actually played Borderlands 2.
From what I've seen of Border… morelands 2, the humor isn't actually much different from this episodic series. It's morbid slapstick which nonetheless tries to provide a sense of pathos.
I've only Youtubed BL2, but a lot of the humor comes down to making light of a horrible world. There's a lot of ridiculous excess that I personally love (how can you hate quests where random guys will literally ask you to shoot them in the face, or where the bad guy will give you a reward for killing yourself?), and that's carried over into TftB.
I don't see people going OMG MEMES LEL JOAKS KILL TELLTALE for Loader-Bot quoting Futurama and Mortal Kombat, or Bossanova playing dubstep.
I don't think Anthony Burch is a bad writer I just feel like his style lends itself more to FPS games than story driven games like Tales from the Borderlands
To me "Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep" was Anthony Burch at his best as a writer because he told a story that was both funny but unexpectedly sad
Watching Tiny Tina go from a over the top and funny character to a young girl who is trying to come to terms with the death of someone she cares about was very powerfully and it admittedly caught me off guard lol
Personally, I love Burch's writing. BL1 had a lousy story and he made BL2 so that it retroactively gave BL1 meaning. I love that he can do i… moreronic references to memes and make silly jokes one second and be brutal the next.
He provided the meta-humour the series really needed and that, in my opinion, created the most entertaining moments of TFTBL. And he realise that since games are always shaping the perceptions of those playing them and thus use it to be progressive rather than simply regurgitating existing norms. Fantastic!
"I don't want Borderlands to become The Jack Franchise, personally. It'll just make things feel stale and unsurprising, which is really bad for a comedy."
Obviously I'm a Jack fan, so I still hope he plays some role in the games going forward, but I do think that the implications from the end of BL2 and TPS (more vaults, and needing more vault hunters) seem to suggest something far, far greater than one maniacal man - no matter how entertaining he is.
I do hope he tries to move away from using Jack as the main villain again. We've already had two games where he's arguably the most charism… moreatic character, and I hope this AI Ghost sub-plot is actually a red herring to distract us from the real antagonist.
See, that was the thing though, TTAoDK was this random bonus that they were able to make purely due to the unexpected success of the main game - and because of that it had no constraints or rules - they could literally do whatever the wanted, which is where some of the games best writing occurred. I think that in itself is an argument about the limitations that Burch has faced (within a FPS setting), and suggests that if he was given more freedom with a purely narrative-based game (like Tales) that he could produce something that surprises us all.
I don't think Anthony Burch is a bad writer I just feel like his style lends itself more to FPS games than story driven games like Tales fro… morem the Borderlands
To me "Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep" was Anthony Burch at his best as a writer because he told a story that was both funny but unexpectedly sad
Watching Tiny Tina go from a over the top and funny character to a young girl who is trying to come to terms with the death of someone she cares about was very powerfully and it admittedly caught me off guard lol
He recently said this on his ask.fm
"I don't want Borderlands to become The Jack Franchise, personally. It'll just make things feel st… moreale and unsurprising, which is really bad for a comedy."
Obviously I'm a Jack fan, so I still hope he plays some role in the games going forward, but I do think that the implications from the end of BL2 and TPS (more vaults, and needing more vault hunters) seem to suggest something far, far greater than one maniacal man - no matter how entertaining he is.
I don't think Anthony Burch is a bad writer I just feel like his style lends itself more to FPS games than story driven games like Tales fro… morem the Borderlands
To me "Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep" was Anthony Burch at his best as a writer because he told a story that was both funny but unexpectedly sad
Watching Tiny Tina go from a over the top and funny character to a young girl who is trying to come to terms with the death of someone she cares about was very powerfully and it admittedly caught me off guard lol
Dated pop culture references and memes being the soul of your jokes isn't always going to work for everyone, I'm kind of glad that Telltale didn't go in that direction in Zer0 Sum.
A poorly written story is a poorly written story. Stop giving the bum excuses for writing crap. Games like Bioshock is a shining example that you don't have to lower your standards just because you're writing for a FPS.
As stated above – I love Burch's writing and think it's a large part of what makes BL2 (as opposed to BL1) great. The story retroactively gave BL1 meaning and is actually engaging and the humour is light and fun while hinting at the brutality of the Borderlands universe.
Bioshock too are fantastic games and one of my favourite franchises, but they are also very different games. They are serious-minded and grim, using the violence of an FPS to establish that. Borderlands (as of BL2, mostly) instead see that inherent in the game mechanic is that you singlehandedly murder hundreds if not thousands of humans. You're either playing one of the worst mass murderers of history or this is just absurd. So let's go for absurd and make jokes of it ("Shoot me in the face! In the face! Do it!").
Joking about that in Bioshock, despite that you murder hundreds of (in Infinite, often innocent) people there too would ruin the experience. We're simply expected to not think about the nigh number, the possible friends and families of those we kill and excuse the whole thing with self-defence. A completely different kind of story, but while Bioshock have one of the best such ever written, it's the typical approach of an FPS. BL does something different and that is a huge part of why I love the games.
A poorly written story is a poorly written story. Stop giving the bum excuses for writing crap. Games like Bioshock is a shining example that you don't have to lower your standards just because you're writing for a FPS.
Agreed, even though Infinite kinda dropped the ball on that one.
That's not to say you can't have a well-written tongue-in-cheek FPS. Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon is the best example of a funny FPS I can think of. That game is better than all three Borderlands in every way.
A poorly written story is a poorly written story. Stop giving the bum excuses for writing crap. Games like Bioshock is a shining example that you don't have to lower your standards just because you're writing for a FPS.
Agreed, even though Infinite kinda dropped the ball on that one.
That's not to say you can't have a well-written tongue-in-cheek FPS. Far C… morery 3 Blood Dragon is the best example of a funny FPS I can think of. That game is better than all three Borderlands in every way.
I don't "bash" games for the sake of it. I call them like I see them. I also literally gave an example of a superior alternative and complimented two other games by agreeing with the user I replied too. But yeah, I guess I am SUCH a negative Nancy. What is wrong with me, indeed. A very good question.
Wait, what is wrong with ME? Hey, I'll have you know my parents had me tested!
Why do you expect me to change my mind all of the sudden? If you guys tried to convince by saying things like "the game is good cuz it's good" then you're not doing it right.
Also, Anthony Burch is kind of a dick.
Also, possibly racist.
Separating the attitude of the author from the game the quality of his work for a moment. Even on its own, Borderlands is a bad game. The game is dull trying not to look dull with its constantly in your face writing (hooray memes and obvious dick jokes!) the attempts at world building is pathetic (NPCs who just stand there solely to make you do their laundry), it's a loot-em-up with a bad loot drop system (Items can fall in lava, little to no influence in what you can find), the plot is moronic right from the start (yeah, trust that voice thing, what could possible go wrong????) and the graphics were ripped off from Codehunters without any acknowledgement.
Really, the only excuse fans give for this series' existence is that it's fun with friends, which I don't even count. Anything is fun with friends. I'm sorry if I expect a bit more from my games than the bare minimum. I'm not even talking about games needing to be serious all the time or that they should have an important message of some kind. Again, Blood Dragon, hilarious, my favorite game of 2013.
Oh god, I did it again. I bashed Borderlands because of your post. Gosh darn it, I just can't help myself.
lol, nevermind. With the announcement of a freaking Minecraft game of all things, I guess I will be turning into a clone of you. Just for the Minecraft section. I guess I lose my right to complain about you if I am going to do the same shit there.
Errr.... Couple of things....
* I don't "bash" games for the sake of it. I call them like I see them. I also literally gave an example … moreof a superior alternative and complimented two other games by agreeing with the user I replied too. But yeah, I guess I am SUCH a negative Nancy. What is wrong with me, indeed. A very good question.
* Wait, what is wrong with ME? Hey, I'll have you know my parents had me tested!
* Why do you expect me to change my mind all of the sudden? If you guys tried to convince by saying things like "the game is good cuz it's good" then you're not doing it right.
* Also, Anthony Burch is kind of a dick.
* Also, possibly racist.
* Separating the attitude of the author from the game the quality of his work for a moment. Even on its own, Borderlands is a bad game. The game is dull trying not to look dull with its constantly in your face writing (hooray memes and obvious dick jokes!) the attempts at world… [view original content]
If you don't like the Borderlands kind of humour then why bother with Tales from the Borderlands? It's kind of given that's the kind of humour that would into that game.
And of course, it's ok to like different things. I really don't appreciate Blood Dragon, for instance. I don't feel a need to bash Lucien Soulban because he and I don't share the same sense of humour. Or his taste with other writings for roleplaying games.
Agreed, even though Infinite kinda dropped the ball on that one.
That's not to say you can't have a well-written tongue-in-cheek FPS. Far C… morery 3 Blood Dragon is the best example of a funny FPS I can think of. That game is better than all three Borderlands in every way.
May I ask why or is it just because? I'm just wondering.
I also usually don't go out of my way to insult the people behind games. I couldn't care who wrote Blood Dragon and I personally don't even care about Far Cry 3 and 4 (unless it's Blood Dragon), but Anthony Burch has no sense of self-awareness and often comes off as a jerk.
If you don't like the Borderlands kind of humour then why bother with Tales from the Borderlands? It's kind of given that's the kind of humo… moreur that would into that game.
And of course, it's ok to like different things. I really don't appreciate Blood Dragon, for instance. I don't feel a need to bash Lucien Soulban because he and I don't share the same sense of humour. Or his taste with other writings for roleplaying games.
I find that humour trite and unoriginal. I know part of the point of that game is to just stay close to the 80s... But it doesn't need it to just remind me of the reasons I didn't care for media of that decade much. And the attempts of making fun of things are so obvious it makes them fall flat to me.
Likewise in the roleplaying things Soulban has written, he never surprise me. It's not bad, it's just... meh.
I've never heard Burch come off as a jerk in any over the interviews I've watched or heard with him. And he's done a lot to make the games he's worked on me more inclusive, including non-straight characters, strong female characters and attempting to reduce race as a significant factor (Sir Hammerlock was originally intended to be black for instance). Using the medium to help bring more perspectives is something I appreciate. And something Soulban has done to some extent as a result of his LGBT engagement.
But again, to each their own. My point is that just because you don't like something, there is no point in telling people who do like it that they're wrong. Some people like the Borderlands style (and thus probably a lot of Burch's writing even if they don't realise it). You obviously don't. Let's just agree to disagree and let everyone enjoy the games they do?
May I ask why or is it just because? I'm just wondering.
I also usually don't go out of my way to insult the people behind games. I could… moren't care who wrote Blood Dragon and I personally don't even care about Far Cry 3 and 4 (unless it's Blood Dragon), but Anthony Burch has no sense of self-awareness and often comes off as a jerk.
Comments
In. As in in what??
Tales from the borderlands
Oh wow. Great argument. I complain that Borderlands uses too many memes and then you say Telltale does it too BY POINTING AT THE BORDERLANDS GAME.
Jeez you know what just leave this forum(TFTBL) than if you hate it so much.
Don't get why so many people hate him so much. Yeah I get the one reason why, but I thought Borderlands 2's story was excellent.
This it wasn't bad for a fps loot game
Dated pop culture references and memes being the soul of your jokes isn't always going to work for everyone, I'm kind of glad that Telltale didn't go in that direction in Zer0 Sum.
While I think Burch's style works well for the main series, I agree it might not have worked as well here. I really enjoyed the different style of this game as it sets it almost in a league of its own and isn't really comparable to the main games.
The meme references weren't really that bad as most people make it out to be. (besides, a lot of it was textual anyway)
If anything: having an actual story in Borderlands 2 was a welcome addition than the non-existent one in the vanilla Borderlands.
This honestly i barely if ever notice them.
Same here. I enjoy his writing since, well, too many games nowadays take themselves too seriously.
Definitely, my attention was more focused on getting Eridium and rare item drops!
I guess I'm an uncultured rube. I find his style fascinating for an FPS.
I usually play by myself. People here just like to snobby circle-jerk the hate.
So basically people can to this thread to circle-jerk themselves about how awesome they are for hating on Borderlands.
It's only an opinion, I don't think anyone thinks they're awesome for hating on Borderlands.
Yeah, if people don't like the games, that's totally their opinion and they are free to feel that way. You can't make everyone like something, people have different tastes...
It seems more like confirmation bias from Telltale fans who probably haven't actually played Borderlands 2.
From what I've seen of Borderlands 2, the humor isn't actually much different from this episodic series. It's morbid slapstick which nonetheless tries to provide a sense of pathos.
I do hope he tries to move away from using Jack as the main villain again. We've already had two games where he's arguably the most charismatic character, and I hope this AI Ghost sub-plot is actually a red herring to distract us from the real antagonist.
So...it's not exactly memelands?
I've only Youtubed BL2, but a lot of the humor comes down to making light of a horrible world. There's a lot of ridiculous excess that I personally love (how can you hate quests where random guys will literally ask you to shoot them in the face, or where the bad guy will give you a reward for killing yourself?), and that's carried over into TftB.
I don't see people going OMG MEMES LEL JOAKS KILL TELLTALE for Loader-Bot quoting Futurama and Mortal Kombat, or Bossanova playing dubstep.
I don't think Anthony Burch is a bad writer I just feel like his style lends itself more to FPS games than story driven games like Tales from the Borderlands
To me "Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep" was Anthony Burch at his best as a writer because he told a story that was both funny but unexpectedly sad
Watching Tiny Tina go from a over the top and funny character to a young girl who is trying to come to terms with the death of someone she cares about was very powerfully and it admittedly caught me off guard lol
That's pretty much what I think of him.
He recently said this on his ask.fm
Obviously I'm a Jack fan, so I still hope he plays some role in the games going forward, but I do think that the implications from the end of BL2 and TPS (more vaults, and needing more vault hunters) seem to suggest something far, far greater than one maniacal man - no matter how entertaining he is.
See, that was the thing though, TTAoDK was this random bonus that they were able to make purely due to the unexpected success of the main game - and because of that it had no constraints or rules - they could literally do whatever the wanted, which is where some of the games best writing occurred. I think that in itself is an argument about the limitations that Burch has faced (within a FPS setting), and suggests that if he was given more freedom with a purely narrative-based game (like Tales) that he could produce something that surprises us all.
That's promising. Hopefully Jack's ghost will be more of a goofy companion rather than the Big Bad again.
And I think it's clear that by the end, Rhys and Fiona can be considered Vault Hunters in their own right.
Agreed. I was never really on board with his writing, but TTAoDK was his best work bar none.
Yeah, his writing style works for the FPS borderlands,it wouldn't have suites this game
They're really was more to it than that. I really wish people would stop complaining about them.
Heck, Zer0 Sum had a few of them. I remember Loader Bot saying; "Fatality"
Here's an idea: Burch wrote BL2 in a style that suited an FPS because it is an FPS – not because that's the only thing he can write.
Scratch your own balls.
A poorly written story is a poorly written story. Stop giving the bum excuses for writing crap. Games like Bioshock is a shining example that you don't have to lower your standards just because you're writing for a FPS.
As stated above – I love Burch's writing and think it's a large part of what makes BL2 (as opposed to BL1) great. The story retroactively gave BL1 meaning and is actually engaging and the humour is light and fun while hinting at the brutality of the Borderlands universe.
Bioshock too are fantastic games and one of my favourite franchises, but they are also very different games. They are serious-minded and grim, using the violence of an FPS to establish that. Borderlands (as of BL2, mostly) instead see that inherent in the game mechanic is that you singlehandedly murder hundreds if not thousands of humans. You're either playing one of the worst mass murderers of history or this is just absurd. So let's go for absurd and make jokes of it ("Shoot me in the face! In the face! Do it!").
Joking about that in Bioshock, despite that you murder hundreds of (in Infinite, often innocent) people there too would ruin the experience. We're simply expected to not think about the nigh number, the possible friends and families of those we kill and excuse the whole thing with self-defence. A completely different kind of story, but while Bioshock have one of the best such ever written, it's the typical approach of an FPS. BL does something different and that is a huge part of why I love the games.
Agreed, even though Infinite kinda dropped the ball on that one.
That's not to say you can't have a well-written tongue-in-cheek FPS. Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon is the best example of a funny FPS I can think of. That game is better than all three Borderlands in every way.
can you even write a single post without bashing Borderlands? Just for once? I mean, what the heck is wrong with you?
Errr.... Couple of things....
I don't "bash" games for the sake of it. I call them like I see them. I also literally gave an example of a superior alternative and complimented two other games by agreeing with the user I replied too. But yeah, I guess I am SUCH a negative Nancy. What is wrong with me, indeed. A very good question.
Wait, what is wrong with ME? Hey, I'll have you know my parents had me tested!
Why do you expect me to change my mind all of the sudden? If you guys tried to convince by saying things like "the game is good cuz it's good" then you're not doing it right.
Also, Anthony Burch is kind of a dick.
Also, possibly racist.
Separating the attitude of the author from the game the quality of his work for a moment. Even on its own, Borderlands is a bad game. The game is dull trying not to look dull with its constantly in your face writing (hooray memes and obvious dick jokes!) the attempts at world building is pathetic (NPCs who just stand there solely to make you do their laundry), it's a loot-em-up with a bad loot drop system (Items can fall in lava, little to no influence in what you can find), the plot is moronic right from the start (yeah, trust that voice thing, what could possible go wrong????) and the graphics were ripped off from Codehunters without any acknowledgement.
Really, the only excuse fans give for this series' existence is that it's fun with friends, which I don't even count. Anything is fun with friends. I'm sorry if I expect a bit more from my games than the bare minimum. I'm not even talking about games needing to be serious all the time or that they should have an important message of some kind. Again, Blood Dragon, hilarious, my favorite game of 2013.
Oh god, I did it again. I bashed Borderlands because of your post. Gosh darn it, I just can't help myself.
lol, nevermind. With the announcement of a freaking Minecraft game of all things, I guess I will be turning into a clone of you. Just for the Minecraft section. I guess I lose my right to complain about you if I am going to do the same shit there.
If you don't like the Borderlands kind of humour then why bother with Tales from the Borderlands? It's kind of given that's the kind of humour that would into that game.
And of course, it's ok to like different things. I really don't appreciate Blood Dragon, for instance. I don't feel a need to bash Lucien Soulban because he and I don't share the same sense of humour. Or his taste with other writings for roleplaying games.
May I ask why or is it just because? I'm just wondering.
I also usually don't go out of my way to insult the people behind games. I couldn't care who wrote Blood Dragon and I personally don't even care about Far Cry 3 and 4 (unless it's Blood Dragon), but Anthony Burch has no sense of self-awareness and often comes off as a jerk.
I find that humour trite and unoriginal. I know part of the point of that game is to just stay close to the 80s... But it doesn't need it to just remind me of the reasons I didn't care for media of that decade much. And the attempts of making fun of things are so obvious it makes them fall flat to me.
Likewise in the roleplaying things Soulban has written, he never surprise me. It's not bad, it's just... meh.
I've never heard Burch come off as a jerk in any over the interviews I've watched or heard with him. And he's done a lot to make the games he's worked on me more inclusive, including non-straight characters, strong female characters and attempting to reduce race as a significant factor (Sir Hammerlock was originally intended to be black for instance). Using the medium to help bring more perspectives is something I appreciate. And something Soulban has done to some extent as a result of his LGBT engagement.
But again, to each their own. My point is that just because you don't like something, there is no point in telling people who do like it that they're wrong. Some people like the Borderlands style (and thus probably a lot of Burch's writing even if they don't realise it). You obviously don't. Let's just agree to disagree and let everyone enjoy the games they do?