Anthony Burch is an utter moron on twitter. Especially when he tries to pull stunts like this.
"And he's done a lot to make the games he's worked on me more inclusive, including non-straight characters, strong female characters and attempting to reduce race as a significant factor (Sir Hammerlock was originally intended to be black for instance). Using the medium to help bring more perspectives is something I ap"preciate. And something Soulban has done to some extent as a result of his LGBT engagement."
Wait, that's why you like the game? That's it? Are you for real? How is that even a compliment
OH YOUR STORY HAS A BLACK GUY IN IT 10/10
GONE HOME?? LESBIANS GOTY ALL YEARS
YOU SHOULDNT PANDER TO ANYONE WHEN MAKING A GAME HE HIMSELF ADMITTED IN ONE PICTURE THAT HE HAS NO REASON FOR HALF THE CAST EXISTING YOU JUST TRIGGERED ME HOW DARE YOU APOLOGISE
He panders to SJWs, he doesn't acknowledge his mistakes and brushes off people who made valid criticism against him as trolls. Yeah, don't improve at all. Just add reddit memes so the kids think it's funny.
also how is a game literally written by reddit more original than an 80s throwback which we is not something you see every day in a brown and gray sea of First Person Shooters.
I find that humour trite and unoriginal. I know part of the point of that game is to just stay close to the 80s... But it doesn't need it to… more just remind me of the reasons I didn't care for media of that decade much. And the attempts of making fun of things are so obvious it makes them fall flat to me.
Likewise in the roleplaying things Soulban has written, he never surprise me. It's not bad, it's just... meh.
I've never heard Burch come off as a jerk in any over the interviews I've watched or heard with him. And he's done a lot to make the games he's worked on me more inclusive, including non-straight characters, strong female characters and attempting to reduce race as a significant factor (Sir Hammerlock was originally intended to be black for instance). Using the medium to help bring more perspectives is something I appreciate. And something Soulban has done to some extent as a result of his LGBT engagement.
But again, to each their… [view original content]
I see nothing wrong in any of the stuff from twitter. I actually liked and retweeted some of them myself. Especially the ones dealing with gender issues.
And yes, I loved Gone Home and consider it one of the best titles in my collection.
He has a reason for making a large portion of the characters non-straight: the fact that the same diversity exist in real life. Thus some characters should be straight, others bi and some gay (and Zer0 can be considered an asexual). Most other games simply pander to an assumed white, male, straight audience rather than all of gamers. As a side note... I'll try to look past it, but I have some issues with people who use SJW as an insult. Trying to make the world a better place rather than solidifying problems should never be considered a bad thing.
And obviously he takes responsibility for his mistakes. He has shown real concern about Lilith being damseled and killing off the black guy for instance. Which is among the most valid criticism I've seen.
I assume your "written by reddit" comment is about the alleged "memelands" thing? Like Blood Dragon, BL tries to use references and easter eggs to poke fun at things. Unlike BD, it keeps most of the references on the pure meta-level, such as Badass challenge names which people only see on occasion anyway. Other than that, BL has very few memes unless you're looking for them.
If I want the experience of Blood Dragon I can just go watch an 80s movie or two.
And you're still not going to change anyone's mind. And still haven't answered the question: why do you feel a need to go to a forum specifically dedicated to a franchise you don't like and tell them that they are wrong for liking it? Don't you have anything better to do?
Anthony Burch is an utter moron on twitter. Especially when he tries to pull stunts like this.
"And he's done a lot to make the g… moreames he's worked on me more inclusive, including non-straight characters, strong female characters and attempting to reduce race as a significant factor (Sir Hammerlock was originally intended to be black for instance). Using the medium to help bring more perspectives is something I ap"preciate. And something Soulban has done to some extent as a result of his LGBT engagement."
Wait, that's why you like the game? That's it? Are you for real? How is that even a compliment
OH YOUR STORY HAS A BLACK GUY IN IT 10/10
GONE HOME?? LESBIANS GOTY ALL YEARS
YOU SHOULDNT PANDER TO ANYONE WHEN MAKING A GAME HE HIMSELF ADMITTED IN ONE PICTURE THAT HE HAS NO REASON FOR HALF THE CAST EXISTING YOU JUST TRIGGERED ME HOW DARE YOU APOLOGISE
He panders to SJWs, he doesn't acknowledge his mistakes and brushes of… [view original content]
Nice try making it sound like I bash Borderlands everywhere I go. I only visited this ONE thread in the entire Borderlands forum because it mentioned Anthony Burch, a guy I can't stand for the life of me.
And the mistakes Anthony Burch acknowledges ARE NOT mistakes. "Damseling" characters for instance isn't a bad thing nor is it sexist. it's trope that can apply to any gender. Contrary to what Anita Sarkeesian might brainwa-I mean might tell you: tropes do not target or harm anyone. They're just patterns you can discover in stories. Forcing unnecessary characters down are throat isn't a good thing! Make a game with a woman or a transexual as the protagonist for all I care, but if you just do that for the sake of having then you're doing it for the wrong reasons! Another thing, if you're gonna have say... a gay character in your game DON'T make that their sole character trait. You do realize they should have personality, right?? Another example of why Burch's writing is shallow and forced.
It's not written well despite what good intentions you think he has. Oh, he did apologize for putting stupid, forced memes in the game. Actually, no, that's wrong. He apologized for the "Arrow in the knee" joke which A) he doesn't seem to be sorry for all the other stupid jokes like Jack talking about dicks or the pandering to thirteen year olds by including Minecraft references and he should have thought of that earlier by maybe remembering that putting these memes in might date the game horribly and create a backlash and C) he doesn't seem to be sorry at all, because as seen in one of the tweets, he wouldn't have put that "Bordermemes" line in the third game.
Seems to me that he's surrounding himself with walls and using "Social Justice" as a way to avoid criticism of his awful and inconsistent writing.
But wait! Why are memes such a big problem, you may ask? Well, they date the game after a couple of weeks, they destroy immersion, they destroy the world you're trying to create and it's basically an admittance that you couldn't be bothered with writing actual jokes!
Also trying to make the world a better place for everyone? You're really deluded if you think that's what SJWs do.
And Blood Dragon? Doesn't rely on stupid memes. I can only think of one line which is "Winners don't do drugs" which is not a meme and makes sense in context. It's still original humor and succeeds at making fun of itself, old and new shooters as evidenced in the tutorial sequence, the tips during loading times and the superb writing. It may be inspired by the 80s .... How does that make it unoriginal? How many games are like that now? I can't think of any.
And how many games are like Borderlands and succeed where that game doesn't?
Diablo 2 for gameplay, world and loot em up. Blood Dragon for humour, shooting and writing. Fallout 3 and New Vegas for its writing, open world and quests. Deus Ex Human Revolution for RPG, open world, writing and shooting. The last three out of those four games are shooters, modern and have a diverse cast in terms of both characters and representation. This makes Borderlands look even more disposable than it already is.
I see nothing wrong in any of the stuff from twitter. I actually liked and retweeted some of them myself. Especially the ones dealing with g… moreender issues.
And yes, I loved Gone Home and consider it one of the best titles in my collection.
He has a reason for making a large portion of the characters non-straight: the fact that the same diversity exist in real life. Thus some characters should be straight, others bi and some gay (and Zer0 can be considered an asexual). Most other games simply pander to an assumed white, male, straight audience rather than all of gamers. As a side note... I'll try to look past it, but I have some issues with people who use SJW as an insult. Trying to make the world a better place rather than solidifying problems should never be considered a bad thing.
And obviously he takes responsibility for his mistakes. He has shown real concern about Lilith being damseled and killing off the black guy for instance. Whi… [view original content]
Sarkeesian is actually quite correct in principle according to massive amounts of research. Try using Google Scholar, which searches peer-reviewed scientific articles, for things about gender in video games. Burch has rad the same research and understood. Doesn't mean white, straight men shouldn't be represented as well. But personally, I love the fact that as a bisexual I can actually relate better to characters and I assume the same goes for many women, non-whites, etc.
Gay characters without personality? Like Sir Hammerlock? Like (probably) Tiny Tina? Like Janey Springs? Bisexual character without personality like Moxxi? Granted Axton is rather two-dimensional but being bisexual is one of the few things that give him depth.
Including the memes is a stylistic choice that one can agree with or not. It's not a mistake because it's completely intentional and thus he has no reason to apologise. If you don't like it, don't play Borderlands and be done with it. And two years on Borderlands 2 is still one of 2Ks most sold games and their best selling game of all time – vastly outselling various games. Blood Dragon for instance. You not liking it doesn't make it a bad game. Just a bad game for you.
And like I said – if you like the writing in Blood Dragon all the more power to you. I don't. It's a matter of taste. Just like I never cared much for the game play of Diablo II.
Nice try making it sound like I bash Borderlands everywhere I go. I only visited this ONE thread in the entire Borderlands forum because it … morementioned Anthony Burch, a guy I can't stand for the life of me.
And the mistakes Anthony Burch acknowledges ARE NOT mistakes. "Damseling" characters for instance isn't a bad thing nor is it sexist. it's trope that can apply to any gender. Contrary to what Anita Sarkeesian might brainwa-I mean might tell you: tropes do not target or harm anyone. They're just patterns you can discover in stories. Forcing unnecessary characters down are throat isn't a good thing! Make a game with a woman or a transexual as the protagonist for all I care, but if you just do that for the sake of having then you're doing it for the wrong reasons! Another thing, if you're gonna have say... a gay character in your game DON'T make that their sole character trait. You do realize they should have personality, right?? Another exa… [view original content]
Massive amounts of research? Are you talking about those simplified, poorly researched, inarticulate videos that can be debunked by five year old? I don't even need to refute her, because she contradicts herself every five seconds! Calling her an academic is insulting. Also, when did I mention anything about white, straight mens representation?? I don't care if the main character is white and male and I also don't care if he acts like say a dumbass as long as it fits within the game's story and genry like if it's a comedy game or something. But not only is this game not funny, it's also not fun to play! I complain about Burch, because he's writing is bad. They're not characters, but caricatures that spew dumb and dated memes that even the thirteen year olds at 4chan would not find funny.
"Gay characters without personality? Like Sir Hammerlock? Like (probably) Tiny Tina? Like Janey Springs? Bisexual character without personality like Moxxi? Granted Axton is rather two-dimensional but being bisexual is one of the few things that give him depth."
Yes, all of those have no personality or are inconsistent like Tiny Tina. Sir Hammerlock feels like he was written by reddit himself. "I'm sorry, but every time Claptrap speaks I feel my brain-cells committing suicide" is probably one of the cringe-inducing lines I've ever heard. Also, I hate to break it to you, but dick jokes don't equate to depth. Don't pretend your game is more than it actually is. I love Blood Dragon, but it's not the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Don't need to write a thesis about how the game is a racist as it has a black character,Spider, die against the main villain. There's no need to look into things THAT AREN'T THERE.
"Stylistic choices"
yeah its not lazy or immersion breaking its stylistic cuz i say so
BUT AN 80STHROWBACK THAT MAKES FUN OF OLD AND MODERN GAME TROPES WHICH WE HAVENT SEEN IN AN FPS VIDEO GAME FORM?? TOO UNORIGINAL NOT ENOUGH GAY PEOPLE IN IT
Sarkeesian is actually quite correct in principle according to massive amounts of research. Try using Google Scholar, which searches peer-re… moreviewed scientific articles, for things about gender in video games. Burch has rad the same research and understood. Doesn't mean white, straight men shouldn't be represented as well. But personally, I love the fact that as a bisexual I can actually relate better to characters and I assume the same goes for many women, non-whites, etc.
Gay characters without personality? Like Sir Hammerlock? Like (probably) Tiny Tina? Like Janey Springs? Bisexual character without personality like Moxxi? Granted Axton is rather two-dimensional but being bisexual is one of the few things that give him depth.
Including the memes is a stylistic choice that one can agree with or not. It's not a mistake because it's completely intentional and thus he has no reason to apologise. If you don't like it, don't play Borderlands… [view original content]
Ah, you must have missed the part where I said that I didn't want to hear from people who are weirdly obsessed with Burch as a person and are determined to vilify him whenever and wherever they get the chance (I mean, I wasn't subtle about it, I linked your creepy stalker comments and everything, it was pretty obvious who I was talking about)!
Also, poop jokes are intrinsic to Psychos, and were introduced in BL1 before Burch came on board - this short was a way of adding depth to previously one-note characters, while still staying true to their original depiction - but of course you can't see that because ANTHONY BURCH IS THE DEVIL!!!
Because he literally asked what Burch's detractors thought about the video. PAYING ATTENTION IS HARD WORK
In all seriousness, the whole Dr. jeckyll and Mr. Hyde thing has been done. It's really nothing special, at least not that I can see in a 4-minute video. I thought this concept was especially well done in New Vegas with the character of Dog/God. Especially the way you can influence him in GAMEPLAY (and not button prompts!) and have different endings based on those choices.
Because he literally asked what Burch's detractors thought about the video. PAYING ATTENTION IS HARD WORK
In all seriousness, the whole D… morer. jeckyll and Mr. Hyde thing has been done. It's really nothing special, at least not that I can see in a 4-minute video. I thought this concept was especially well done in New Vegas with the character of Dog/God. Especially the way you can influence him in GAMEPLAY (and not button prompts!) and have different endings based on those choices.
Ah, you must have missed the part where I said that I didn't want to hear from people who are weirdly obsessed with Burch as a person and ar… moree determined to vilify him whenever and wherever they get the chance (I mean, I wasn't subtle about it, I linked your creepy stalker comments and everything, it was pretty obvious who I was talking about)!
Also, poop jokes are intrinsic to Psychos, and were introduced in BL1 before Burch came on board - this short was a way of adding depth to previously one-note characters, while still staying true to their original depiction - but of course you can't see that because ANTHONY BURCH IS THE DEVIL!!!
You act like you posted one little comment in this thread, and not a multitude of poorly argued 'essays' that culminated in screen shot after screen shot of tweets from the writer you are so vehemently opposed to/obsessed with - including unrelated images of him appearing in his own comedy web series...
...or maybe you've just got a thing for guys in drag? No judgement, of course, Pumpkin! I'm obviously an Anthony Burch fan, so by default am one of those insidious little SJWs. We're just trying to support your cause!
Now before your head explodes, that was a joke, okay? Lighten up, Kiddo - go play some games that you actually like, have a bit of fun - I insist!
I call him a bad writer in one thread not even made by me = I'm obsessed with him??
I say all Borderlands games are badly written = I think Burch is Satan??
poop jokes and memes = funny??
poop = depth??
I disagree and give reasons why he's a bad writer = accuse you of being a SJW??
three images found in first page of google as example of his dickery = obsession??
long post = essay?
If it's so badly argued then why don't you say why I'm wrong or something?? Also, don't pretend like his fans don't write long posts.
"Now before your head explodes, that was a joke, okay?"
So wait, you're entire argument is joke? Okay, thanks for stopping by.
You act like you posted one little comment in this thread, and not a multitude of poorly argued 'essays' that culminated in screen shot afte… morer screen shot of tweets from the writer you are so vehemently opposed to/obsessed with - including unrelated images of him appearing in his own comedy web series...
...or maybe you've just got a thing for guys in drag? No judgement, of course, Pumpkin! I'm obviously an Anthony Burch fan, so by default am one of those insidious little SJWs. We're just trying to support your cause!
Now before your head explodes, that was a joke, okay? Lighten up, Kiddo - go play some games that you actually like, have a bit of fun - I insist!
I disagree and give reasons why he's a bad writer = accuse you of being a SJW??
three images found in first page of google as example of … morehis dickery = obsession??
long post = essay?
If it's so badly argued then why don't you say why I'm wrong or something?? Also, don't pretend like his fans don't write long posts.
"Now before your head explodes, that was a joke, okay?"
So wait, you're entire argument is joke? Okay, thanks for stopping by.
What are you talking about? You mean those three photos in one image file of which I couldn't be bothered to delete? Which is one of the first things that shows up when I google "Anthony Burch meme". In which there are posts that adress a lot of inconsistencies in Borderlands 2? In which Burch OPENLY ADMITS that he can't stand his own dialogue? In which he ignores criticism? In which he acknowledges he puts minorities for no reason and even said that that's stupid? Okay. Way to see the bigger picture. Enjoy your dick jokes and memes. That certainly makes you look a lot more mature than me!
Shh shh shh, Pumkin? Shh shh shh - you don't have to justify why you were looking up pictures of Anthony Burch in women's clothing.
This is a safe space, okay? We're here for you. Shh, that's it, it's going to be okay - okay?
No more denying your feelings, or trying to make excuses for them. I accept you for who you are, I only hope that you can do the same...
Now, I've got to go, but just know that I'm here for you, so please don't hesitate to get in touch. I know this must be a difficult time for you, so if there's any way I can help just let me know.
Who knows, maybe Anthony will put a character with your predilection in BL3 and you'll finally be able to feel the love and acceptance you deserve...
What are you talking about? You mean those three photos in one image file of which I couldn't be bothered to delete? Which is one of the fir… morest things that shows up when I google "Anthony Burch meme". In which there are posts that adress a lot of inconsistencies in Borderlands 2? In which Burch OPENLY ADMITS that he can't stand his own dialogue? In which he ignores criticism? In which he acknowledges he puts minorities for no reason and even said that that's stupid? Okay. Way to see the bigger picture. Enjoy your dick jokes and memes. That certainly makes you look a lot more mature than me!
Pumpkin, what did I just say?
No more denying your feelings, or trying to make excuses for them. I accept you for who you are, I only hop… moree that you can do the same...
Now, I've got to go, but just know that I'm here for you, so please don't hesitate to get in touch. I know this must be a difficult time for you, so if there's any way I can help just let me know.
Who knows, maybe Anthony will put a character with your predilection in BL3 and you'll finally be able to feel the love and acceptance you deserve...
Ok, giving up on trying to explain that your opinion about what makes good writing doesn't objectively make it so. Just need to correct some factual things.
I never said Anita Sarkeesian's videos are academic dissertations, nor has she claimed such. They are intended to be an easily relatable input into a much needed discussion. Not more than that. What I'm saying is that ACTUAL academic research have been done by OTHER PEOPLE. Hence referring to Google Scholar as a way to do your own research if Sarkeesian's videos aren't well researched enough for you.
Massive amounts of research? Are you talking about those simplified, poorly researched, inarticulate videos that can be debunked by five yea… morer old? I don't even need to refute her, because she contradicts herself every five seconds! Calling her an academic is insulting. Also, when did I mention anything about white, straight mens representation?? I don't care if the main character is white and male and I also don't care if he acts like say a dumbass as long as it fits within the game's story and genry like if it's a comedy game or something. But not only is this game not funny, it's also not fun to play! I complain about Burch, because he's writing is bad. They're not characters, but caricatures that spew dumb and dated memes that even the thirteen year olds at 4chan would not find funny.
"Gay characters without personality? Like Sir Hammerlock? Like (probably) Tiny Tina? Like Janey Springs? Bisexual character without personality like Moxxi… [view original content]
She actual claims to be one and so do many of her er.... "fans". She claims games are sexist and cause violence (which is a very bold claim) despite studies showing otherwise and she also doesn't cite any sources. I also have to explain that she isn't stating an OPINION, but making an ARGUMENT and since journalists and several other people treat her as a credible academic I'll hold her to those standards. So unless Wikipedia and TVtropes count as her research she's got nothing to show.
Also, how many times do I have to repeat this?? Using out of context stupid dated memes is LAZY ERGO BAD WRITER.
Ok, giving up on trying to explain that your opinion about what makes good writing doesn't objectively make it so. Just need to correct some… more factual things.
I never said Anita Sarkeesian's videos are academic dissertations, nor has she claimed such. They are intended to be an easily relatable input into a much needed discussion. Not more than that. What I'm saying is that ACTUAL academic research have been done by OTHER PEOPLE. Hence referring to Google Scholar as a way to do your own research if Sarkeesian's videos aren't well researched enough for you.
Wow, do I really need to link you? http://scholar.google.se/scholar?as_vis=1&q=gender+video+games&hl=en&as_sdt=1,5
There. Studies. Actual ones – not Wikipedia or angry people on YouTube feeling threatened. And hundreds of thousands of them supporting what Sarkeesian is saying, validating her argument. And no, she's not saying video games are sexist – she says video games, like other media, affect perception of gender and that they like other media tend to treat women as objects rather than subjects and are underrepresented. Those are facts. Her opinion is that it's bad.
She actual claims to be one and so do many of her er.... "fans". She claims games are sexist and cause violence (which is a very bold claim)… more despite studies showing otherwise and she also doesn't cite any sources. I also have to explain that she isn't stating an OPINION, but making an ARGUMENT and since journalists and several other people treat her as a credible academic I'll hold her to those standards. So unless Wikipedia and TVtropes count as her research she's got nothing to show.
Also, how many times do I have to repeat this?? Using out of context stupid dated memes is LAZY ERGO BAD WRITER.
Wow, do I really need to link you? http://scholar.google.se/scholar?as_vis=1&q=gender+video+games&hl=en&as_sdt=1,5
There. Studi… morees. Actual ones – not Wikipedia or angry people on YouTube feeling threatened. And hundreds of thousands of them supporting what Sarkeesian is saying, validating her argument. And no, she's not saying video games are sexist – she says video games, like other media, affect perception of gender and that they like other media tend to treat women as objects rather than subjects and are underrepresented. Those are facts. Her opinion is that it's bad.
lol, nevermind. With the announcement of a freaking Minecraft game of all things, I guess I will be turning into a clone of you. Just for the Minecraft section. I guess I lose my right to complain about you if I am going to do the same shit there.
Shh, Kiddo, shh. If you continue to excuse his excuses he'll never feel comfortable enough to accept himself. He needs to know that this is a safe space where we love and appreciate him no matter what. You're only enabling his self-loathing.
(if by this stage you still haven't realised I'm taking the piss, please let me know and I can keep going...)
I see barely three relevant studies that involve gender while all the rest focus on a correlation between VIDEO GAMES AND VIOLENCE which has been disproven countless of times. Every study that exist is true, right??
Nice try, Jack Thompson. And yes, she is saying that games are sexist just like how Jack says they make you violent. At the start of her series, she implies that Miyamoto is a sexist, because.... er... he created DK because he hates women and he wants them to be kidnapped by apes, i guess?. By stating that denying influence from media, you become more affected by it meaning she implies that video games do you make you sexist/racist/violent. She literally says at one point that gamers "get off" on things that happen to women in the game. I also love how she rants for 30 minutes about how the damsel in distress trope is sexist (even though it can apply to men which she does not mention) and the goes on to say at the end "Oh, it's not always sexist" without giving any clear reason for it!
Women underrepresented? How? Last time I checked there are lots of female main characters, secondary characters, NPCs, villains etc. Lots of games have customization characters which makes this a non-issue and even if they don't, games or stories can really benefit from have just one defined character.
Women as objects? No SHIT, Sherlock. It's as if half the characters you find in video games are NPCs which only walk around and have five lines. This applies to men too. Strippers in my game?? How could they objectifiy her? It's not like they exist in real life or anything! Women have breasts?! How could they?! I thought we passed this trend! What's that? Criminals in video games treat women badly??? I WONDER WHY, Ms. Sarkeesian! Don't even try and tell my men in games somehow have it better off. Like with the "super original bald space marine number 457" or the "ever beloved" every white guy played by Troy Baker!
also objectification has nothing to do with feminism and comes from philosophy or something i dunno what shes talking about at all
Anyone can cherrypick games, show footage of it and twist it to make it sound sexist. The hard part is showing evidence for it which she does not do.
Also, I hate to make cheap shots, but I do feel like I need to bring this up. She says there's no sexism towards men (because changing definitions for your own benefit is fun!) and she blamed the patriarchy for a school shooting in which children died. Somebody really needs to buy her a dictionary.
Wow, do I really need to link you? http://scholar.google.se/scholar?as_vis=1&q=gender+video+games&hl=en&as_sdt=1,5
There. Studi… morees. Actual ones – not Wikipedia or angry people on YouTube feeling threatened. And hundreds of thousands of them supporting what Sarkeesian is saying, validating her argument. And no, she's not saying video games are sexist – she says video games, like other media, affect perception of gender and that they like other media tend to treat women as objects rather than subjects and are underrepresented. Those are facts. Her opinion is that it's bad.
She didn't imply Miyamato is sexist, merely that the work he makes helps contribute to an industry-wide trend.
Objectification isn't exclusive to the way men treat women, no, but it's *common *to it.
She blamed *toxic masculinity *on shootings. Which is this idea that a patriarchal environment can create conditions in which there is an incredibly narrow way for men to be, and to express themselves. This is why it's considered 'acceptable' for women to have traits and interests that are viewed as 'masculine', but unacceptable for men to have traits that are 'feminine'. The only acceptable way for men to express themselves in media portrayals is through anger or violence. Patriarchy is harmful to *men *as much as women.
But you're not actually interested in any legitimate debate, since you are incredibly aggressive here, and are basically just trying to shut down anyone who disagrees with you.
She is literally showing you evidence to the huge catalogue of games that reinforce sexist ideas (not games that are sexist, not even that rescuing a character who happens to be female as sexist in itself, but that the sheer overhwelming number of games that do this, indicates a problem) and you basically dismiss it out of hand as 'cherry picking'.
But, maybe I'm being unfair on you. You're kind of really aggressive in your language from word go, and that makes me assume you're not arguing in good faith, and maybe that's prejudiced of me. So, that in mind, what evidence would you need to convince you?
I see barely three relevant studies that involve gender while all the rest focus on a correlation between VIDEO GAMES AND VIOLENCE which has… more been disproven countless of times. Every study that exist is true, right??
Nice try, Jack Thompson. And yes, she is saying that games are sexist just like how Jack says they make you violent. At the start of her series, she implies that Miyamoto is a sexist, because.... er... he created DK because he hates women and he wants them to be kidnapped by apes, i guess?. By stating that denying influence from media, you become more affected by it meaning she implies that video games do you make you sexist/racist/violent. She literally says at one point that gamers "get off" on things that happen to women in the game. I also love how she rants for 30 minutes about how the damsel in distress trope is sexist (even though it can apply to men which she does not mention) and the goes on to say at the end "Oh, it's… [view original content]
Yes, she did. She says he "stole" "Crystals game" and damseled her cuz sexism!!! Chivalry? What's that? business? did the patriarchy invent that?
not my point. objectification has nothing to do with feminism. it's misused. Even if it was, it's not insulting, because the protagonist in a game, the main character, should act over everyone. If everyone acted over you then you're not playing a game, but watching a movie. You want to defeat the villain, you don't want a random NPC to do it.
No, I just don't like people who defend this awful person who again, SAYS SEXISM AGAINST MEN DOES NOT EXIST #killallmen
By evidence you mean cherrypicking? An example. She's showcasing a couple of games that havethe damsel in distress plot. Even if it was sexist and that it targets this one specific gender (which it isn't) and even if all of those games actually did have the damsel in distress plot the way she describes it (which they don't), that's still a drop in the ocean of games which don't feature the damsel in distress trope.
also calling somebody for help is bad? Kidnapping caused by criminals doesn't exist in real life?? People in power like princesses don't get targeted??? Criminals who kidnap treat their hostage badly???? those things don't happen in real life, right????? y depict it in vidya i dunt understood
This is a real clown-shoes straw-manning attempt.
She didn't imply Miyamato is sexist, merely that the work he makes helps contribute to … morean industry-wide trend.
Objectification isn't exclusive to the way men treat women, no, but it's *common *to it.
She blamed *toxic masculinity *on shootings. Which is this idea that a patriarchal environment can create conditions in which there is an incredibly narrow way for men to be, and to express themselves. This is why it's considered 'acceptable' for women to have traits and interests that are viewed as 'masculine', but unacceptable for men to have traits that are 'feminine'. The only acceptable way for men to express themselves in media portrayals is through anger or violence. Patriarchy is harmful to *men *as much as women.
But you're not actually interested in any legitimate debate, since you are incredibly aggressive here, and are basically just trying to shut down anyone who disag… [view original content]
Her point with that example was to demonstrate that a game with a female protagonist was reworked so as to make that character an objective to be saved by a male protagonist. She didn't comment on his ethics, since it's rare for this stuff to be intentional. But that's the thing, this stuff happens because people don't pay close enough attention. Also Chivalry is such a tangled mess of a concept that leads back so far, it is really hard to unpack how you're talking about it. I'm guessing you mean it's most common use, which is that the strong must protect the weak, and this is often expressed as 'men have a duty to guard women, since they don't have the strength to guard themselves'.
Objectification is not misused. Objectification of a person occurs when their traits as a person are less important than their traits as a plot token or an object to be obtained. Or their surface values are more important than their personality (how attractive a woman is, how 'exotic' a non-white person is). Again, objectification in and of itself is neutral. Sometimes you don't have time to go into a deep character study with every character and you just need to drive a story along. But it's used much more with women than anyone else. It is the sheer amount this is done that makes it bad. A little salt is fine with a meal. It becomes dangerous when it is in most of the meal.
Masculinity in and of itself isn't bad. That's why critics use the term 'toxic masculinity'. It becomes toxic when it is literally the only game in town. If everything was equal, masculinity would be no more benign or malign than femininity. But everything is NOT equal. Everyone should be able to express themselves in the full spectrum of masculine, feminine and everything in-between, as they feel comfortable. But this isn't the case. We still have people making jokes about men being sexually assaulted, or wearing dresses, or having 'feminine' interests like jewelry or fashion. That isn't women-on-men sexism. That's a result of femininity being deemed lesser than masculinity, and only fit for women.
For someone who argued against people for what he thought of as circular logic, this is pretty circular.
What games did she list as being damsel in distress (and let's be honest here, that's not the only way you can limit portrayals of women in media) that weren't in fact, damsels in distress?
No, but when it's almost exclusively women being targeted, that's a problem.
* Yes, she did. She says he "stole" "Crystals game" and damseled her cuz sexism!!! Chivalry? What's that? business? did the patriarchy inven… moret that?
* not my point. objectification has nothing to do with feminism. it's misused. Even if it was, it's not insulting, because the protagonist in a game, the main character, should act over everyone. If everyone acted over you then you're not playing a game, but watching a movie. You want to defeat the villain, you don't want a random NPC to do it.
* oh oh time to educate ourselves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbLK-2RYnD8
* No, I just don't like people who defend this awful person who again, SAYS SEXISM AGAINST MEN DOES NOT EXIST #killallmen
* By evidence you mean cherrypicking? An example. She's showcasing a couple of games that havethe damsel in distress plot. Even if it was sexist and that it targets this one specific gender (which it isn't) and even if all of those games actually did h… [view original content]
Why yes, women are biologically less strong than men! Congratulations have a cookie. In fact, the whole idea with chivalry was to treat women better, aid them in time of need, watch their language in their presence.... wait i'm confused does anita want that or not??
Also, it was mainly a business decision. What would sell more on a console that wasn't doing well to begin with. An established and well-beloved franchise or some other game in which one of two protagonists already looks like fox to begin with.
objectification is not supported by feminism. it's not even supported by common sense. it has nothing to do with anything It IS misused by modern feminists to make things look sexist when they're not. Unless.... you're saying that the main character in a video game, a medium that relies on player input, shouldn't have you do stuff??
and she says that masculinity isn't toxic and that removing it, isn't a solution. Saying toxic masculinity caused school shootings and not insanity is dumb. Whats that? everything is not equal? It's like men and women are different or something. what are you even talking about? We're not allowed to make jokes anymore? When women make jokes about how men are dumb or act tough to impress them or something, should I be offended by that. I don't want to live in a world without jokes Are you saying woman are innocent angels who never ever joke on someones expense? It's joke, it's meant to challenge people, nobody is deeming anyone lesser than the other with jokes.
What? i don't understand? circular? i'm pointing out that anita is SEXIST. By stating that sexism against men does not exist she herself is being sexist. She's even pro-segregation! Are you denying that?
She misrepresents them. She says that "in a game of patriarchy" kidnapped woman are the ball while the hero and bad guy play with her. She brings up this analogy while she hasn't concluded anything, doesn't say why it applies here and yes, it doesn't count with the games she brought up like for instance Kid Icarus in which the villain is a woman or games in which characters have established relationships like Double Dragon meaning that she's trying to imply that main characters don't care for the safety of their loved one when they obviously do.
holy shit, it's not exclusively targeted at women, ya dip. it's a trope it doesn't have a mind of its own Sarkeesian even recommended a game that has a damsel in the distress with a MAN unironically.
* Her point with that example was to demonstrate that a game with a female protagonist was reworked so as to make that character an objectiv… moree to be saved by a male protagonist. She didn't comment on his ethics, since it's rare for this stuff to be intentional. But that's the thing, this stuff happens because people don't pay close enough attention. Also Chivalry is such a tangled mess of a concept that leads back so far, it is really hard to unpack how you're talking about it. I'm guessing you mean it's most common use, which is that the strong must protect the weak, and this is often expressed as 'men have a duty to guard women, since they don't have the strength to guard themselves'.
* Objectification is not misused. Objectification of a person occurs when their traits as a person are less important than their traits as a plot token or an object to be obtained. Or their surface values are more important than their personality (h… [view original content]
* Why yes, women are biologically less strong than men! Congratulations have a cookie. In fact, the whole idea with chivalry was to treat wo… moremen better, aid them in time of need, watch their language in their presence.... wait i'm confused does anita want that or not??
Also, it was mainly a business decision. What would sell more on a console that wasn't doing well to begin with. An established and well-beloved franchise or some other game in which one of two protagonists already looks like fox to begin with.
* objectification is not supported by feminism. it's not even supported by common sense. it has nothing to do with anything It IS misused by modern feminists to make things look sexist when they're not. Unless.... you're saying that the main character in a video game, a medium that relies on player input, shouldn't have you do stuff??
* and she says that masculinity isn't toxic and that removing it, isn't a solution. Saying toxic m… [view original content]
In one of her videos, she is in favor of separating men and women in public transport, because to quote her "women get harrased in every facet of their lives". She brings up Egypt as a positive example even though any amount of research would have told you that they don't do that for the benefit of women.
Even if this was the case, it's still sexist, because you're punishing women for being attacked. That's like creating a white only bus out of fear of getting robbed by people of color. Please enlighten me how this is for their own protection and how they're not being racist.
Also please enlighten me why I should take woman seriously who dislikes the trope of damsels of distress so much that she doesn't even appreciate satire of it and calls it "ironic sexism". More proof that she doesn't know what words mean.
Biology does not exist, that's a tool from the patriarchy devised by nazi scientist in their basements to keep women down... uh.... toxic masculinity does not mean all masculinity is toxic...? banning words like bossy is normal i think and not bossy at all school shootings caused by men and hurt men buy my book donate to my patreon
hey guys i have an idea lets create a hugbox in which women in game arent sexualized, ugly, dumb, smart, fat, thin, beautiful, damsels, arent "fighting fucktoys (whatever that means), the protagonist, the sidekick, the villain, a random NPC and somehow arent killable they have to be perfect in every w-oh wait thats sexist ermmm maybe remove women? oh wait thats sexist too errr...
Okay, so I was right to begin with. You're not actually interested in legitimate debate.
And I have no clue where you think she is pro segregation. That is just a complete fabrication.
In one of her videos, she is in favor of separating men and women in public transport, because to quote her "women get harrased in every fac… moreet of their lives". She brings up Egypt as a positive example even though any amount of research would have told you that they don't do that for the benefit of women.
Even if this was the case, it's still sexist, because you're punishing women for being attacked. That's like creating a white only bus out of fear of getting robbed by people of color. Please enlighten me how this is for their own protection and how they're not being racist.
Also please enlighten me why I should take woman seriously who dislikes the trope of damsels of distress so much that she doesn't even appreciate satire of it and calls it "ironic sexism". More proof that she doesn't know what words mean.
Biology does not exist, that's a tool from the patriarchy devised by nazi scientist in their basements to keep women down... … [view original content]
I couldn't find the video on her channel. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but she does have a habit of deleting videos when confronted with responsibility. Like how she took on a Bayonetta advertising campaign when the character was designed by a woman. Luckily I managed to find footage of her saying it in her own words.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKAg_NmTcoc
Just skip to 1:10. It's a short clip, sadly, but nothing to do about it.
I couldn't find the video on her channel. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but she does have a habit of deleting videos when confronted with res… moreponsibility. Like how she took on a Bayonetta advertising campaign when the character was designed by a woman. Luckily I managed to find footage of her saying it in her own words.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKAg_NmTcoc
Just skip to 1:10. It's a short clip, sadly, but nothing to do about it.
I have no idea if I have already commented on this thread, but here's my opinion: his writing is better for FPS or games that surround more on gameplay than story. I think Borderlands 2 has one of the best stories for a game that is meant more for gameplay than anything.
I think they were right not to let him write this, but don't call him a bad writer. For what he does, he does a very good job.
Anthony Burch is an utter moron on twitter. Especially when he tries to pull stunts like this.
"And he's done a lot to make the g… moreames he's worked on me more inclusive, including non-straight characters, strong female characters and attempting to reduce race as a significant factor (Sir Hammerlock was originally intended to be black for instance). Using the medium to help bring more perspectives is something I ap"preciate. And something Soulban has done to some extent as a result of his LGBT engagement."
Wait, that's why you like the game? That's it? Are you for real? How is that even a compliment
OH YOUR STORY HAS A BLACK GUY IN IT 10/10
GONE HOME?? LESBIANS GOTY ALL YEARS
YOU SHOULDNT PANDER TO ANYONE WHEN MAKING A GAME HE HIMSELF ADMITTED IN ONE PICTURE THAT HE HAS NO REASON FOR HALF THE CAST EXISTING YOU JUST TRIGGERED ME HOW DARE YOU APOLOGISE
He panders to SJWs, he doesn't acknowledge his mistakes and brushes of… [view original content]
Oh my gosh everyone in the argument above is so feminist and egaliatian and fair to sexual minorities and stuff I can't handle having this much love for the forum in my cold cold heart
Comments
Anthony Burch is an utter moron on twitter. Especially when he tries to pull stunts like this.
"And he's done a lot to make the games he's worked on me more inclusive, including non-straight characters, strong female characters and attempting to reduce race as a significant factor (Sir Hammerlock was originally intended to be black for instance). Using the medium to help bring more perspectives is something I ap"preciate. And something Soulban has done to some extent as a result of his LGBT engagement."
Wait, that's why you like the game? That's it? Are you for real? How is that even a compliment
OH YOUR STORY HAS A BLACK GUY IN IT 10/10
GONE HOME?? LESBIANS GOTY ALL YEARS
YOU SHOULDNT PANDER TO ANYONE WHEN MAKING A GAME HE HIMSELF ADMITTED IN ONE PICTURE THAT HE HAS NO REASON FOR HALF THE CAST EXISTING YOU JUST TRIGGERED ME HOW DARE YOU APOLOGISE
He panders to SJWs, he doesn't acknowledge his mistakes and brushes off people who made valid criticism against him as trolls. Yeah, don't improve at all. Just add reddit memes so the kids think it's funny.
also how is a game literally written by reddit more original than an 80s throwback which we is not something you see every day in a brown and gray sea of First Person Shooters.
I see nothing wrong in any of the stuff from twitter. I actually liked and retweeted some of them myself. Especially the ones dealing with gender issues.
And yes, I loved Gone Home and consider it one of the best titles in my collection.
He has a reason for making a large portion of the characters non-straight: the fact that the same diversity exist in real life. Thus some characters should be straight, others bi and some gay (and Zer0 can be considered an asexual). Most other games simply pander to an assumed white, male, straight audience rather than all of gamers. As a side note... I'll try to look past it, but I have some issues with people who use SJW as an insult. Trying to make the world a better place rather than solidifying problems should never be considered a bad thing.
And obviously he takes responsibility for his mistakes. He has shown real concern about Lilith being damseled and killing off the black guy for instance. Which is among the most valid criticism I've seen.
I assume your "written by reddit" comment is about the alleged "memelands" thing? Like Blood Dragon, BL tries to use references and easter eggs to poke fun at things. Unlike BD, it keeps most of the references on the pure meta-level, such as Badass challenge names which people only see on occasion anyway. Other than that, BL has very few memes unless you're looking for them.
If I want the experience of Blood Dragon I can just go watch an 80s movie or two.
And you're still not going to change anyone's mind. And still haven't answered the question: why do you feel a need to go to a forum specifically dedicated to a franchise you don't like and tell them that they are wrong for liking it? Don't you have anything better to do?
Nice try making it sound like I bash Borderlands everywhere I go. I only visited this ONE thread in the entire Borderlands forum because it mentioned Anthony Burch, a guy I can't stand for the life of me.
And the mistakes Anthony Burch acknowledges ARE NOT mistakes. "Damseling" characters for instance isn't a bad thing nor is it sexist. it's trope that can apply to any gender. Contrary to what Anita Sarkeesian might brainwa-I mean might tell you: tropes do not target or harm anyone. They're just patterns you can discover in stories. Forcing unnecessary characters down are throat isn't a good thing! Make a game with a woman or a transexual as the protagonist for all I care, but if you just do that for the sake of having then you're doing it for the wrong reasons! Another thing, if you're gonna have say... a gay character in your game DON'T make that their sole character trait. You do realize they should have personality, right?? Another example of why Burch's writing is shallow and forced.
It's not written well despite what good intentions you think he has. Oh, he did apologize for putting stupid, forced memes in the game. Actually, no, that's wrong. He apologized for the "Arrow in the knee" joke which A) he doesn't seem to be sorry for all the other stupid jokes like Jack talking about dicks or the pandering to thirteen year olds by including Minecraft references and
he should have thought of that earlier by maybe remembering that putting these memes in might date the game horribly and create a backlash and C) he doesn't seem to be sorry at all, because as seen in one of the tweets, he wouldn't have put that "Bordermemes" line in the third game.
Seems to me that he's surrounding himself with walls and using "Social Justice" as a way to avoid criticism of his awful and inconsistent writing.
But wait! Why are memes such a big problem, you may ask? Well, they date the game after a couple of weeks, they destroy immersion, they destroy the world you're trying to create and it's basically an admittance that you couldn't be bothered with writing actual jokes!
Also trying to make the world a better place for everyone? You're really deluded if you think that's what SJWs do.
And Blood Dragon? Doesn't rely on stupid memes. I can only think of one line which is "Winners don't do drugs" which is not a meme and makes sense in context. It's still original humor and succeeds at making fun of itself, old and new shooters as evidenced in the tutorial sequence, the tips during loading times and the superb writing. It may be inspired by the 80s .... How does that make it unoriginal? How many games are like that now? I can't think of any.
And how many games are like Borderlands and succeed where that game doesn't?
Diablo 2 for gameplay, world and loot em up. Blood Dragon for humour, shooting and writing. Fallout 3 and New Vegas for its writing, open world and quests. Deus Ex Human Revolution for RPG, open world, writing and shooting. The last three out of those four games are shooters, modern and have a diverse cast in terms of both characters and representation. This makes Borderlands look even more disposable than it already is.
Sarkeesian is actually quite correct in principle according to massive amounts of research. Try using Google Scholar, which searches peer-reviewed scientific articles, for things about gender in video games. Burch has rad the same research and understood. Doesn't mean white, straight men shouldn't be represented as well. But personally, I love the fact that as a bisexual I can actually relate better to characters and I assume the same goes for many women, non-whites, etc.
Gay characters without personality? Like Sir Hammerlock? Like (probably) Tiny Tina? Like Janey Springs? Bisexual character without personality like Moxxi? Granted Axton is rather two-dimensional but being bisexual is one of the few things that give him depth.
Including the memes is a stylistic choice that one can agree with or not. It's not a mistake because it's completely intentional and thus he has no reason to apologise. If you don't like it, don't play Borderlands and be done with it. And two years on Borderlands 2 is still one of 2Ks most sold games and their best selling game of all time – vastly outselling various games. Blood Dragon for instance. You not liking it doesn't make it a bad game. Just a bad game for you.
And like I said – if you like the writing in Blood Dragon all the more power to you. I don't. It's a matter of taste. Just like I never cared much for the game play of Diablo II.
Massive amounts of research? Are you talking about those simplified, poorly researched, inarticulate videos that can be debunked by five year old? I don't even need to refute her, because she contradicts herself every five seconds! Calling her an academic is insulting. Also, when did I mention anything about white, straight mens representation?? I don't care if the main character is white and male and I also don't care if he acts like say a dumbass as long as it fits within the game's story and genry like if it's a comedy game or something. But not only is this game not funny, it's also not fun to play! I complain about Burch, because he's writing is bad. They're not characters, but caricatures that spew dumb and dated memes that even the thirteen year olds at 4chan would not find funny.
"Gay characters without personality? Like Sir Hammerlock? Like (probably) Tiny Tina? Like Janey Springs? Bisexual character without personality like Moxxi? Granted Axton is rather two-dimensional but being bisexual is one of the few things that give him depth."
Yes, all of those have no personality or are inconsistent like Tiny Tina. Sir Hammerlock feels like he was written by reddit himself. "I'm sorry, but every time Claptrap speaks I feel my brain-cells committing suicide" is probably one of the cringe-inducing lines I've ever heard. Also, I hate to break it to you, but dick jokes don't equate to depth. Don't pretend your game is more than it actually is. I love Blood Dragon, but it's not the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Don't need to write a thesis about how the game is a racist as it has a black character,Spider, die against the main villain. There's no need to look into things THAT AREN'T THERE.
"Stylistic choices"
yeah its not lazy or immersion breaking its stylistic cuz i say so
BUT AN 80STHROWBACK THAT MAKES FUN OF OLD AND MODERN GAME TROPES WHICH WE HAVENT SEEN IN AN FPS VIDEO GAME FORM?? TOO UNORIGINAL NOT ENOUGH GAY PEOPLE IN IT
For Burch's detractors, I'm curious what you think about this?
poop jokes....
"best piece of narrative created within the Borderlands universe"
He made one poop joke lol why are u even still in this section?
Ah, you must have missed the part where I said that I didn't want to hear from people who are weirdly obsessed with Burch as a person and are determined to vilify him whenever and wherever they get the chance (I mean, I wasn't subtle about it, I linked your creepy stalker comments and everything, it was pretty obvious who I was talking about)!
Also, poop jokes are intrinsic to Psychos, and were introduced in BL1 before Burch came on board - this short was a way of adding depth to previously one-note characters, while still staying true to their original depiction - but of course you can't see that because ANTHONY BURCH IS THE DEVIL!!!
Because he literally asked what Burch's detractors thought about the video. PAYING ATTENTION IS HARD WORK
In all seriousness, the whole Dr. jeckyll and Mr. Hyde thing has been done. It's really nothing special, at least not that I can see in a 4-minute video. I thought this concept was especially well done in New Vegas with the character of Dog/God. Especially the way you can influence him in GAMEPLAY (and not button prompts!) and have different endings based on those choices.
Lol you just look for reasons too hate this series don't you
I call him a bad writer in one thread not even made by me = I'm obsessed with him??
I say all Borderlands games are badly written = I think Burch is Satan??
poop jokes and memes = funny??
poop = depth??
Why yes, I intend to back up my opinion instead of saying "it's bad cuz it's bad" or "it's good cuz it's good".
No you just seem too have an obsessive hatred again't Burch
You act like you posted one little comment in this thread, and not a multitude of poorly argued 'essays' that culminated in screen shot after screen shot of tweets from the writer you are so vehemently opposed to/obsessed with - including unrelated images of him appearing in his own comedy web series...
...or maybe you've just got a thing for guys in drag? No judgement, of course, Pumpkin! I'm obviously an Anthony Burch fan, so by default am one of those insidious little SJWs. We're just trying to support your cause!
Now before your head explodes, that was a joke, okay? Lighten up, Kiddo - go play some games that you actually like, have a bit of fun - I insist!
I disagree and give reasons why he's a bad writer = accuse you of being a SJW??
three images found in first page of google as example of his dickery = obsession??
long post = essay?
If it's so badly argued then why don't you say why I'm wrong or something?? Also, don't pretend like his fans don't write long posts.
"Now before your head explodes, that was a joke, okay?"
So wait, you're entire argument is joke? Okay, thanks for stopping by.
Shh shh shh, Pumkin? Shh shh shh - you don't have to justify why you were looking up pictures of Anthony Burch in women's clothing.
This is a safe space, okay? We're here for you. Shh, that's it, it's going to be okay - okay?
What are you talking about? You mean those three photos in one image file of which I couldn't be bothered to delete? Which is one of the first things that shows up when I google "Anthony Burch meme". In which there are posts that adress a lot of inconsistencies in Borderlands 2? In which Burch OPENLY ADMITS that he can't stand his own dialogue? In which he ignores criticism? In which he acknowledges he puts minorities for no reason and even said that that's stupid? Okay. Way to see the bigger picture. Enjoy your dick jokes and memes. That certainly makes you look a lot more mature than me!
Pumpkin, what did I just say?
No more denying your feelings, or trying to make excuses for them. I accept you for who you are, I only hope that you can do the same...
Now, I've got to go, but just know that I'm here for you, so please don't hesitate to get in touch. I know this must be a difficult time for you, so if there's any way I can help just let me know.
Who knows, maybe Anthony will put a character with your predilection in BL3 and you'll finally be able to feel the love and acceptance you deserve...
Um, did you not read his comment, Jack? Doesn't look much like an excuse to me.
Ok, giving up on trying to explain that your opinion about what makes good writing doesn't objectively make it so. Just need to correct some factual things.
I never said Anita Sarkeesian's videos are academic dissertations, nor has she claimed such. They are intended to be an easily relatable input into a much needed discussion. Not more than that. What I'm saying is that ACTUAL academic research have been done by OTHER PEOPLE. Hence referring to Google Scholar as a way to do your own research if Sarkeesian's videos aren't well researched enough for you.
She actual claims to be one and so do many of her er.... "fans". She claims games are sexist and cause violence (which is a very bold claim) despite studies showing otherwise and she also doesn't cite any sources. I also have to explain that she isn't stating an OPINION, but making an ARGUMENT and since journalists and several other people treat her as a credible academic I'll hold her to those standards. So unless Wikipedia and TVtropes count as her research she's got nothing to show.
Also, how many times do I have to repeat this?? Using out of context stupid dated memes is LAZY ERGO BAD WRITER.
Wow, do I really need to link you? http://scholar.google.se/scholar?as_vis=1&q=gender+video+games&hl=en&as_sdt=1,5
There. Studies. Actual ones – not Wikipedia or angry people on YouTube feeling threatened. And hundreds of thousands of them supporting what Sarkeesian is saying, validating her argument. And no, she's not saying video games are sexist – she says video games, like other media, affect perception of gender and that they like other media tend to treat women as objects rather than subjects and are underrepresented. Those are facts. Her opinion is that it's bad.
Deleting comments is fishy though.
I'm sorry, but this was probably the funniest thing I have ever read.
Shh, Kiddo, shh. If you continue to excuse his excuses he'll never feel comfortable enough to accept himself. He needs to know that this is a safe space where we love and appreciate him no matter what. You're only enabling his self-loathing.
(if by this stage you still haven't realised I'm taking the piss, please let me know and I can keep going...)
I see barely three relevant studies that involve gender while all the rest focus on a correlation between VIDEO GAMES AND VIOLENCE which has been disproven countless of times. Every study that exist is true, right??
Nice try, Jack Thompson. And yes, she is saying that games are sexist just like how Jack says they make you violent. At the start of her series, she implies that Miyamoto is a sexist, because.... er... he created DK because he hates women and he wants them to be kidnapped by apes, i guess?. By stating that denying influence from media, you become more affected by it meaning she implies that video games do you make you sexist/racist/violent. She literally says at one point that gamers "get off" on things that happen to women in the game. I also love how she rants for 30 minutes about how the damsel in distress trope is sexist (even though it can apply to men which she does not mention) and the goes on to say at the end "Oh, it's not always sexist" without giving any clear reason for it!
Women underrepresented? How? Last time I checked there are lots of female main characters, secondary characters, NPCs, villains etc. Lots of games have customization characters which makes this a non-issue and even if they don't, games or stories can really benefit from have just one defined character.
Women as objects? No SHIT, Sherlock. It's as if half the characters you find in video games are NPCs which only walk around and have five lines. This applies to men too. Strippers in my game?? How could they objectifiy her? It's not like they exist in real life or anything! Women have breasts?! How could they?! I thought we passed this trend! What's that? Criminals in video games treat women badly??? I WONDER WHY, Ms. Sarkeesian! Don't even try and tell my men in games somehow have it better off. Like with the "super original bald space marine number 457" or the "ever beloved" every white guy played by Troy Baker!
also objectification has nothing to do with feminism and comes from philosophy or something i dunno what shes talking about at all
Anyone can cherrypick games, show footage of it and twist it to make it sound sexist. The hard part is showing evidence for it which she does not do.
Also, I hate to make cheap shots, but I do feel like I need to bring this up. She says there's no sexism towards men (because changing definitions for your own benefit is fun!) and she blamed the patriarchy for a school shooting in which children died. Somebody really needs to buy her a dictionary.
This is a real clown-shoes straw-manning attempt.
She didn't imply Miyamato is sexist, merely that the work he makes helps contribute to an industry-wide trend.
Objectification isn't exclusive to the way men treat women, no, but it's *common *to it.
She blamed *toxic masculinity *on shootings. Which is this idea that a patriarchal environment can create conditions in which there is an incredibly narrow way for men to be, and to express themselves. This is why it's considered 'acceptable' for women to have traits and interests that are viewed as 'masculine', but unacceptable for men to have traits that are 'feminine'. The only acceptable way for men to express themselves in media portrayals is through anger or violence. Patriarchy is harmful to *men *as much as women.
But you're not actually interested in any legitimate debate, since you are incredibly aggressive here, and are basically just trying to shut down anyone who disagrees with you.
She is literally showing you evidence to the huge catalogue of games that reinforce sexist ideas (not games that are sexist, not even that rescuing a character who happens to be female as sexist in itself, but that the sheer overhwelming number of games that do this, indicates a problem) and you basically dismiss it out of hand as 'cherry picking'.
But, maybe I'm being unfair on you. You're kind of really aggressive in your language from word go, and that makes me assume you're not arguing in good faith, and maybe that's prejudiced of me. So, that in mind, what evidence would you need to convince you?
oh oh time to educate ourselves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbLK-2RYnD8
No, I just don't like people who defend this awful person who again, SAYS SEXISM AGAINST MEN DOES NOT EXIST #killallmen
By evidence you mean cherrypicking? An example. She's showcasing a couple of games that havethe damsel in distress plot. Even if it was sexist and that it targets this one specific gender (which it isn't) and even if all of those games actually did have the damsel in distress plot the way she describes it (which they don't), that's still a drop in the ocean of games which don't feature the damsel in distress trope.
also calling somebody for help is bad? Kidnapping caused by criminals doesn't exist in real life?? People in power like princesses don't get targeted??? Criminals who kidnap treat their hostage badly???? those things don't happen in real life, right????? y depict it in vidya i dunt understood
Her point with that example was to demonstrate that a game with a female protagonist was reworked so as to make that character an objective to be saved by a male protagonist. She didn't comment on his ethics, since it's rare for this stuff to be intentional. But that's the thing, this stuff happens because people don't pay close enough attention. Also Chivalry is such a tangled mess of a concept that leads back so far, it is really hard to unpack how you're talking about it. I'm guessing you mean it's most common use, which is that the strong must protect the weak, and this is often expressed as 'men have a duty to guard women, since they don't have the strength to guard themselves'.
Objectification is not misused. Objectification of a person occurs when their traits as a person are less important than their traits as a plot token or an object to be obtained. Or their surface values are more important than their personality (how attractive a woman is, how 'exotic' a non-white person is). Again, objectification in and of itself is neutral. Sometimes you don't have time to go into a deep character study with every character and you just need to drive a story along. But it's used much more with women than anyone else. It is the sheer amount this is done that makes it bad. A little salt is fine with a meal. It becomes dangerous when it is in most of the meal.
Masculinity in and of itself isn't bad. That's why critics use the term 'toxic masculinity'. It becomes toxic when it is literally the only game in town. If everything was equal, masculinity would be no more benign or malign than femininity. But everything is NOT equal. Everyone should be able to express themselves in the full spectrum of masculine, feminine and everything in-between, as they feel comfortable. But this isn't the case. We still have people making jokes about men being sexually assaulted, or wearing dresses, or having 'feminine' interests like jewelry or fashion. That isn't women-on-men sexism. That's a result of femininity being deemed lesser than masculinity, and only fit for women.
For someone who argued against people for what he thought of as circular logic, this is pretty circular.
What games did she list as being damsel in distress (and let's be honest here, that's not the only way you can limit portrayals of women in media) that weren't in fact, damsels in distress?
No, but when it's almost exclusively women being targeted, that's a problem.
Also again, what evidence would satisfy you?
Why yes, women are biologically less strong than men! Congratulations have a cookie. In fact, the whole idea with chivalry was to treat women better, aid them in time of need, watch their language in their presence.... wait i'm confused does anita want that or not??
Also, it was mainly a business decision. What would sell more on a console that wasn't doing well to begin with. An established and well-beloved franchise or some other game in which one of two protagonists already looks like fox to begin with.
objectification is not supported by feminism. it's not even supported by common sense. it has nothing to do with anything It IS misused by modern feminists to make things look sexist when they're not. Unless.... you're saying that the main character in a video game, a medium that relies on player input, shouldn't have you do stuff??
and she says that masculinity isn't toxic and that removing it, isn't a solution. Saying toxic masculinity caused school shootings and not insanity is dumb. Whats that? everything is not equal? It's like men and women are different or something. what are you even talking about? We're not allowed to make jokes anymore? When women make jokes about how men are dumb or act tough to impress them or something, should I be offended by that. I don't want to live in a world without jokes Are you saying woman are innocent angels who never ever joke on someones expense? It's joke, it's meant to challenge people, nobody is deeming anyone lesser than the other with jokes.
What? i don't understand? circular? i'm pointing out that anita is SEXIST. By stating that sexism against men does not exist she herself is being sexist. She's even pro-segregation! Are you denying that?
She misrepresents them. She says that "in a game of patriarchy" kidnapped woman are the ball while the hero and bad guy play with her. She brings up this analogy while she hasn't concluded anything, doesn't say why it applies here and yes, it doesn't count with the games she brought up like for instance Kid Icarus in which the villain is a woman or games in which characters have established relationships like Double Dragon meaning that she's trying to imply that main characters don't care for the safety of their loved one when they obviously do.
holy shit, it's not exclusively targeted at women, ya dip. it's a trope it doesn't have a mind of its own Sarkeesian even recommended a game that has a damsel in the distress with a MAN unironically.
Okay, so I was right to begin with. You're not actually interested in legitimate debate.
And I have no clue where you think she is pro segregation. That is just a complete fabrication.
In one of her videos, she is in favor of separating men and women in public transport, because to quote her "women get harrased in every facet of their lives". She brings up Egypt as a positive example even though any amount of research would have told you that they don't do that for the benefit of women.
Even if this was the case, it's still sexist, because you're punishing women for being attacked. That's like creating a white only bus out of fear of getting robbed by people of color. Please enlighten me how this is for their own protection and how they're not being racist.
Also please enlighten me why I should take woman seriously who dislikes the trope of damsels of distress so much that she doesn't even appreciate satire of it and calls it "ironic sexism". More proof that she doesn't know what words mean.
Biology does not exist, that's a tool from the patriarchy devised by nazi scientist in their basements to keep women down... uh.... toxic masculinity does not mean all masculinity is toxic...? banning words like bossy is normal i think and not bossy at all school shootings caused by men and hurt men buy my book donate to my patreon
hey guys i have an idea lets create a hugbox in which women in game arent sexualized, ugly, dumb, smart, fat, thin, beautiful, damsels, arent "fighting fucktoys (whatever that means), the protagonist, the sidekick, the villain, a random NPC and somehow arent killable they have to be perfect in every w-oh wait thats sexist ermmm maybe remove women? oh wait thats sexist too errr...
Could you link the video?
I couldn't find the video on her channel. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but she does have a habit of deleting videos when confronted with responsibility. Like how she took on a Bayonetta advertising campaign when the character was designed by a woman. Luckily I managed to find footage of her saying it in her own words.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKAg_NmTcoc
Just skip to 1:10. It's a short clip, sadly, but nothing to do about it.
seems kinda cherry pickin to me.
Conclusion = she's not being a sexist??
I have no idea if I have already commented on this thread, but here's my opinion: his writing is better for FPS or games that surround more on gameplay than story. I think Borderlands 2 has one of the best stories for a game that is meant more for gameplay than anything.
I think they were right not to let him write this, but don't call him a bad writer. For what he does, he does a very good job.
Social Regression Warrior here folks, nothing to see.
Oh my gosh everyone in the argument above is so feminist and egaliatian and fair to sexual minorities and stuff I can't handle having this much love for the forum in my cold cold heart
@JByrne @Charon-J ( @1683717 ) keep on being awesome, you do it well.
Together we can purge the forums of those nasty SRWs.