Ellie would not want him to do what he did, as Marlene knows, and as Joel knows, evidenced by him lying to her.
we dont know that. why would a very talkative girl that voices her opinion and calls people on their bullshit on the spot, if that was the case why wouldnt she tell him on the fucking "hey what the fuck, why am i a wake(alive)?" why wouldnt she start freaking out? or why would she even stay?
and that, that the "cure" its a guarantee is bullshit, the scientist didnt even know 100% it'd work. and even then how do we know that even if they work, how do we know that humans would actually make it work? as in making society work again. nope. it wouldnt. everyone that is alive has pretty much done fucked up shit and would be ready to do so again, and what makes anybody think the military wouldnt want to kill the fireflies and exploit the "cure" or even the fireflies to gain more control. even in the normal world saving "humanity" would be a hard decision.
I hated it to begin with but grew to love it.
It only works if you stop thinking of Joel as the protagonist though. The game shifts persp… moreective to Ellie for the last 1 minute of gameplay for a reason.
For me Joel is the single biggest villain in the game. He prevents millions of lives from being saved because of selfish reasons.
Yes, saving Ellie is selfish. Ellie would not want him to do what he did, as Marlene knows, and as Joel knows, evidenced by him lying to her.
He saved her because he personally couldn't bear to lose his replacement daughter, dooming millions to death in the process.
It was a nice ending but allot of people have a point, Joel could've saved the world but instead he saved one girl, which takes bravery either way. I just wish he didn't have to kill anyone, I mean Joel was the only one with an actual weapon.
Well, I don't think we need to act like we have a complete or full answer to whether or not the vaccine would have made things worse, I personally don't think it's that black and white, it's a gray area.
Besides, I think Ellie knows Joel is lying, but sticks with him, because she loves him as a father or friend.
If it doesn't work (unlikely considering these are brain surgeons who seem 100% confident they can do it) then one girl dies and nothing cha… morenges. If it does work, which is much more likely, then one girl dies and millions of lives are saved. Not taking that minimal chance is ridiculous.
'The world is so messed up a vaccine wouldn't work' is a ridiculous argument. You see people shot in the head for fear they have the disease in the quarantine zone at the start of the game. That shit wouldn't happen. There'd be far less to be afraid of
The point is that if the world is to bee rebuilt, the disease has to be dealt with somehow. You can't just say 'oh the world is shit, there's no point curing the disease that made it shit in the first place'.
Well, Joel had a reason, the player either likes it or doesn't, but it's really not the game's fault that the story is linear, it gets praise because people love it the same way people love Walking Dead S1, despite the gameplay not being anything special or complex, the game's story, atmosphere, interaction, and characters, make the journey worth experiencing.
I might as well complain why the hell did Walking Dead S1 win game of the year when it's "adventure gameplay" is mediocre and kind of sloppy compared to other adventure games, and its story is cliché and generic and the choices don't really matter in the end despite the game advertising itself as a branching narrative.
I'm bothered with the fact that a new IP, a tired third person cover based shooter that doesn't want to take risks, receives so much praise.… more The story is generic and the gameplay is nothing special. They even go as simplify things for a wider audience. The person were supposed to bond with and protect is essentially a non-element during gameplay. You're going backwards, Naughty Dog. Putting the personality of the characters aside, Resident Evil 4 nailed in 2005 so what's the excuse?
So I must ask, why is it bad if I ask for more player input that doesn't consist out of quicktime events and tired third person-shooting behind cover? If they wanted to make a movie, you should have made a movie and not a game.
And no, I don't hate games that don't allow player choice. I hate games which have the protagonist make a dumb decision without any reason, excuse and more importantly without player involvement. Why am I even here when you don't need me, game?!
nononononononono just no My point is this. Joel chooses the life of a girl over the world. No sane person would have done this. There's no way around this. A major choice like this should involve the player. I already stated in another post why it would add much more to the game.
When did I agree that Walking Dead should win GOTY? where did i say that. Was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'd still make the argument that compared to TLOU, that game is still a lot more original in terms of both gameplay and even story. Do you not realize how many third person cover based shooters there are nowadays?
Well, Joel had a reason, the player either likes it or doesn't, but it's really not the game's fault that the story is linear, it gets prais… moree because people love it the same way people love Walking Dead S1, despite the gameplay not being anything special or complex, the game's story, atmosphere, interaction, and characters, make the journey worth experiencing.
I might as well complain why the hell did Walking Dead S1 win game of the year when it's "adventure gameplay" is mediocre and kind of sloppy compared to other adventure games, and its story is cliché and generic and the choices don't really matter in the end despite the game advertising itself as a branching narrative.
The Ending was okay, I like how it shows the father-daughter relationship between Joel and Ellie which he never got to fully experience but I didn't like how he basically said "Fuck everyone else, I'm just gonna save and then lie to the girl who feels like a daughter to me even though she would probably want to die in order to save everyone else" That may be harsh but still, I didn't love it but I thought it was okay, Not a bad ending.
Didn't like it I get why Joel did all that but he should have told Ellie the truth. I can't see how Ellie won't find what he done. There is no way she would remain with Joel.
I am going to quote Ellie here: "After all we been through, everything thing that I've done...it can't be for nothing."
One of the main points of the game was bonding Ellie and Joel, by the end its a father and daughter relationship. By the end you can see it's not going to last. what's point, after the long bonding through the game it end with ending that make it clear what Joel did and not telling the truth their bond is just going to fall apart. Just because Ellie has a phobia not being alone, doesn't mean she would remain with Joel, She has some morals and Joel doesn't have any. this leads to fact Ellie could end up be scread of Joel is able to do. I not saying that Joel would abuse Ellie or anything I am just saying he doesn't have any limits.
I absolutely loved he ending. It took morally grey to an outstanding new level. Personally I agree with what Joel did, if only Marlene had gone about finding the cure in a different manner than she had I could have sided with her.
Well, due to what he's been through, he's probably not entirely sane, and it doesn't give us a clear answer that the cure would have worked or not, so that's not much of a fact that it would have worked.
No, TWD S1 is actually not very original in its storytelling, it's very predictable on where Lee's character is going to end up, Kenny is a typical family man who loses his wife and child, Ben is the typical screw up, Lily is the leader who goes nuts, Larry is the usual asshole dad and even Lee is a little generic with his backstory, gameplay is a little shallow and borrows from Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy in some ways, so it's just as not original as TLOU.
nononononononono just no My point is this. Joel chooses the life of a girl over the world. No sane person would have done this. There's no w… moreay around this. A major choice like this should involve the player. I already stated in another post why it would add much more to the game.
When did I agree that Walking Dead should win GOTY? where did i say that. Was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'd still make the argument that compared to TLOU, that game is still a lot more original in terms of both gameplay and even story. Do you not realize how many third person cover based shooters there are nowadays?
Ellie has optional dialogue in which Joel says something in accordance with Spock's legendary words "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," or the one," and she replies "That's awful." (Paraphrased.)
Joel chooses the life of a girl over the world. No sane person would have done.
Yes they would. For easy illustration of this imagine a father sending his daughter to the slaughter for a chance at the cure. Would he do it? Maybe, but I highly doubt people would expect him to. I know I wouldn't.
A major choice like this should involve the player.
No. You're not there to make calls. You're there to shoot things and watch what the creators gave you, nothing more. This isn't a case of "what would you do?" because it isn't you, it's Joel. You are spectating his life and his actions, not yours, and you have no influence on his character.
nononononononono just no My point is this. Joel chooses the life of a girl over the world. No sane person would have done this. There's no w… moreay around this. A major choice like this should involve the player. I already stated in another post why it would add much more to the game.
When did I agree that Walking Dead should win GOTY? where did i say that. Was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'd still make the argument that compared to TLOU, that game is still a lot more original in terms of both gameplay and even story. Do you not realize how many third person cover based shooters there are nowadays?
Well, I don't think we need to act like we have a complete or full answer to whether or not the vaccine would have made things worse, I pers… moreonally don't think it's that black and white, it's a gray area.
Besides, I think Ellie knows Joel is lying, but sticks with him, because she loves him as a father or friend.
I believe Joel's mentality was that the world has taken so much from him that when he finally gets something worth living for again, Joel makes sure that he keeps her safe, the cure/world be damned. Joel is a flawed character and at the end it shows that he is selfish and wants to live the rest of his life in safe place with Ellie. I'm sure he knows what he is doing and at that point is not sure what Ellie would choose to do, so he lies to keep things going his way. Me personally I wouldn't care for the world was cured and everyone lived happily ever after ending. IMO After everything Joel has been through he deserves this, screw the nameless, faceless, assholes that have done nothing for him and the people thinking that killing Ellie could possibly lead to a cure.
It would be that if Ellie didn't want to die either.
But the ending is Joel lying to her. That's thus not 'fuck the world let's just be h… moreappy' as would be a positive end, but it's 'fuck the world AND my dead girlfriend AND my replacement daughter, I'm all that matters'.
It wasn't pointless. It wasn't a cure story, it was a story about the bond that formed between Joel and Ellie. I guess if finding your only happiness in a world of sadness is pointless then you're correct.
I think its an interesting ending. It leaves us wondering if Ellie believes him or not. All she says is "Okay". And that's good. It leaves us gamers with something to discuss.
I believe Joel's mentality was that the world has taken so much from him that when he finally gets something worth living for again, Joel ma… morekes sure that he keeps her safe, the cure/world be damned. Joel is a flawed character and at the end it shows that he is selfish and wants to live the rest of his life in safe place with Ellie. I'm sure he knows what he is doing and at that point is not sure what Ellie would choose to do, so he lies to keep things going his way. Me personally I wouldn't care for the world was cured and everyone lived happily ever after ending. IMO After everything Joel has been through he deserves this, screw the nameless, faceless, assholes that have done nothing for him and the people thinking that killing Ellie could possibly lead to a cure.
I think its an interesting ending. It leaves us wondering if Ellie believes him or not. All she says is "Okay". And that's good. It leaves us gamers with something to discuss.
I didn't like it at first (not hate) because I felt like it ended a bit too abruptly. Then I played it again, looked at an analysis video, and paid a bit more attention to the final chapters of the game. Now I feel like the ending is very good. Not great as a lot of people else where say, but functional and understandable.
I was hoping the ending would leave me with a "The Walking Dead" or "Bioshock Infinite" feel, but it didn't really deliver with that.
"No. You're not there to make calls. You're there to shoot things and watch what the creators gave you, nothing more. This isn't a case of "what would you do?" because it isn't you, it's Joel. You are spectating his life and his actions, not yours, and you have no influence on his character."
Yeah, I agree. The player should have no control over the main character. In fact, I don't even want to shoot things. Just let the game play itself! Time to go through more hallways and cutscenes in FF XIII. You know what else I love? You missing the point. Making this a choice for the player would have benefited the game greatly for reasons I already stated. When I mean sane person, I'm talking about the player, not the character. Given us control over this one thing would have made the game a lot better. At worst, this change removes the disconnect between the player and the character. At best, it would add depth, surprise, more bang for your buck, makes you think about the ending, makes you discover stuff about yourself....
Joel chooses the life of a girl over the world. No sane person would have done.
Yes they would. For easy illustration of this imagin… moree a father sending his daughter to the slaughter for a chance at the cure. Would he do it? Maybe, but I highly doubt people would expect him to. I know I wouldn't.
A major choice like this should involve the player.
No. You're not there to make calls. You're there to shoot things and watch what the creators gave you, nothing more. This isn't a case of "what would you do?" because it isn't you, it's Joel. You are spectating his life and his actions, not yours, and you have no influence on his character.
Yeah, I agree. The player should have no control over the main character. In fact, I don't even want to shoot things. Just let the game play itself!
If you don't want to shoot things then you're not playing the game. The story is set in stone and you are nothing but a bystander. And that's not a bad thing. Again this isn't your story it's Joel's.
You know what else I love? You missing the point.
Please do explain. The only thing I've seen is your confusion at why they didn't give you a choice.
Making this a choice for the player would have benefited the game greatly for reasons I already stated.
In this string of replies? If so, you're very good at masquerading your "reasons" as drivel. They never attempted to appease the heroic "save the world" players. That wasn't the basis for this game, and adding it would have be detrimental to their characters because that isn't what Joel would have done. As having Kenny give a speech and then calmly walking off into the sunset went against his character for the support of the Kenny fanboys this would have gone against Joel's character for the support of people like you.
When I mean sane person, I'm talking about the player, not the character.
Depends if people truly connected with the bond between Joel and Ellie. Even in that case it isn't the players call. See above.
Given us control over this one thing would have made the game a lot better.
No it would have been a cheap cop out to appease a minority.
"No. You're not there to make calls. You're there to shoot things and watch what the creators gave you, nothing more. This isn't a case of "… morewhat would you do?" because it isn't you, it's Joel. You are spectating his life and his actions, not yours, and you have no influence on his character."
Yeah, I agree. The player should have no control over the main character. In fact, I don't even want to shoot things. Just let the game play itself! Time to go through more hallways and cutscenes in FF XIII. You know what else I love? You missing the point. Making this a choice for the player would have benefited the game greatly for reasons I already stated. When I mean sane person, I'm talking about the player, not the character. Given us control over this one thing would have made the game a lot better. At worst, this change removes the disconnect between the player and the character. At best, it would add depth, surprise, more bang for your buck, makes you think about the ending, makes you discover stuff about yourself....
"If you don't want to shoot things then you're not playing the game. The story is set in stone and you are nothing but a bystander. And that's not a bad thing. Again this isn't your story it's Joel's."
if I'm a bystander in a game then it isn't a good game.
"Please do explain. The only thing I've seen is your confusion at why they didn't give you a choice."
I did, guess I'll have to post this again:
Explain to me how it wouldn't add depth, surprise, more bang for your buck or how it wouldn't make you think about the ending or make you discover stuff about yourself.... The game would have benefited greatly from player choice in the ending. End of story. I still have yet to hear a reason why the player of all things should be ignored in a game. Again, way to miss the most important part.
Okay, so you talk about Kenny fanboys? What? I don't get it, he's not the main playable character so it's irrelevant, next.
"Depends if people truly connected with the bond between Joel and Ellie. Even in that case it isn't the players call. See above."
AND AGAIN making this a choice for the player to MAKE would have strengthened the bond between you and Ellie. Thanks for making my point. NEXT.
"No it would have been a cheap cop out to appease a minority."
how dare i ask for interactivity in an interactive medium
Yeah, I agree. The player should have no control over the main character. In fact, I don't even want to shoot things. Just let the game play… more itself!
If you don't want to shoot things then you're not playing the game. The story is set in stone and you are nothing but a bystander. And that's not a bad thing. Again this isn't your story it's Joel's.
You know what else I love? You missing the point.
Please do explain. The only thing I've seen is your confusion at why they didn't give you a choice.
Making this a choice for the player would have benefited the game greatly for reasons I already stated.
In this string of replies? If so, you're very good at masquerading your "reasons" as drivel. They never attempted to appease the heroic "save the world" players. That wasn't the basis for this game, and adding it would have be detrimental to their characters because that isn't what Joel would have done. As having Ke… [view original content]
if I'm a bystander in a game then it isn't a good game.
By your definition maybe. I love the game for its story and it's interesting and realistic fighting mechanics. It's not often the player can die so easily and the shooting is much harder than your average aim assist shooter. Crafting was fairly interesting, though I'm the type of player to horde my shit so I never used anything I crafted.
Look at halo, another great franchise. They do focus more heavily on gameplay than TLOU but in the end those games also have no choice and you're nothing but a bystander, difference is master chief is the archetypal good guy so it's easier for the moral wannabes (wannabes because more often than not games are the only place their morals truly stand) to get their fill of gratification without having to actually be a good or moral person.
depth
To your short sighted minds eye perhaps, but in the end having to consider his actions and reasoning is much more in depth than "well I could do either."
surprise
Surprise that they gave you the option? Adding something just for the sake of saying you have it? Ummm.... okay?
more bang for your buck
I don't think the addition of one ill placed choice counts as more bang for your buck. They could also add one more gun, or one more random mission, or one more deer in the background to give you "more bang for your buck." Any of them necessary, interesting, or worthwhile? No.
how it wouldn't make you think about the ending or make you discover stuff about yourself
Most have put more thought into the ending expressly because they didn't know what to make of then ending or the actions of Joel. Adding the option to choose would only be detrimental to this because why question what you agree with? Most (and probably you) don't question things like the war on terror, taxes, or excessive access to the Internet because they coincide with your thoughts and beliefs.
The game would have benefited greatly from player choice in the ending. End of story. I still have yet to hear a reason why the player of all things should be ignored in a game. Again, way to miss the most important part.
I didn't miss it, it was just drivel. It wouldn't have benefited the game and your point of view is hardly and laughably "end of story" material.
Okay, so you talk about Kenny fanboys? What? I don't get it, he's not the main playable character so it's irrelevant, next.
No it's not. Context. I suggest you reread and comprehend the implications of comparing Kenny's remarkable and unbelievable response to Joel's would be response. Far from irrelevant.
AND AGAIN making this a choice for the player to MAKE would have strengthened the bond between you and Ellie. Thanks for making my point.
I highly disagree. But to reiterate the other point "Even in that (your) case it isn't the players call."
how dare i ask for interactivity in an interactive medium
You have interactivity via the combat, that's the game. The story is what you're trying to change.
"If you don't want to shoot things then you're not playing the game. The story is set in stone and you are nothing but a bystander. And that… more's not a bad thing. Again this isn't your story it's Joel's."
if I'm a bystander in a game then it isn't a good game.
"Please do explain. The only thing I've seen is your confusion at why they didn't give you a choice."
I did, guess I'll have to post this again:
Explain to me how it wouldn't add depth, surprise, more bang for your buck or how it wouldn't make you think about the ending or make you discover stuff about yourself.... The game would have benefited greatly from player choice in the ending. End of story. I still have yet to hear a reason why the player of all things should be ignored in a game. Again, way to miss the most important part.
Okay, so you talk about Kenny fanboys? What? I don't get it, he's not the main playable character so it's irrelevant, next.
"Depends if people … [view original content]
I honestly think that was intended. At first I had the same feeling as you, I was waiting for more even when the credits had wrapped up. But later I realized it had ended very concretely. Ellie was going to stick with Joel through whatever, Joel would protect Ellie at any cost, and they had a relatively safe place to do this. The cathartic moments towards the very end with Joel and Ellie's conversation were powerful, especially when she started talking about her best friend, and it was a fitting end to their journey.
To this day, I still can't find myself liking it. I don't hate it, I just feel like it was not only abrupt and sudden but it took away any sort of sympathy I had for Joel.
See, Joel and Ellie are amazing characters. I wanted this game to end on a note that would make me still feel emotionally attached to the both them. Yes, Joel had good intentions, albeit selfish; however, his decision to save Ellie was very understandable and very relatable. Whether are not it was the morally right thing to do is up to the player (I thought it was). But I don't like the fact that he lies to her afterwards.
Why can't he just tell her the truth that Marlene (who was a friend of Ellie's) was going to willingly kill her in hopes of MAYBE find a cure? It's very clear that she doesn't buy this bullshit about others that are immune like her at all. And even after she pours her heart out to Joel and she makes him swear to her that his bullshit story is true, he STILL has the nerve to say yes. For God's sake Joel, do you have any idea how much hell Ellie has gone through just to save your crusty, old ass? She at least deserves your full honesty. It just doesn't seem fair to her. It's probably gonna comeback and bite him in the ass one day.
Well, I don't think we need to act like we have a complete or full answer to whether or not the vaccine would have made things worse, I pers… moreonally don't think it's that black and white, it's a gray area.
Besides, I think Ellie knows Joel is lying, but sticks with him, because she loves him as a father or friend.
Ellie has optional dialogue in which Joel says something in accordance with Spock's legendary words "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," or the one," and she replies "That's awful." (Paraphrased.)
To this day, I still can't find myself liking it. I don't hate it, I just feel like it was not only abrupt and sudden but it took away any s… moreort of sympathy I had for Joel.
See, Joel and Ellie are amazing characters. I wanted this game to end on a note that would make me still feel emotionally attached to the both them. Yes, Joel had good intentions, albeit selfish; however, his decision to save Ellie was very understandable and very relatable. Whether are not it was the morally right thing to do is up to the player (I thought it was). But I don't like the fact that he lies to her afterwards.
Why can't he just tell her the truth that Marlene (who was a friend of Ellie's) was going to willingly kill her in hopes of MAYBE find a cure? It's very clear that she doesn't buy this bullshit about others that are immune like her at all. And even after she pours her heart out to Joel and she makes him swear to her that his bullshit story is true, … [view original content]
No, I really do think that Ellie knows that he's lying , but stays with Joel because she loves him as a father or friend, due to what they've been through, of course, that's just my interpretation, but it makes sense.
Ellie has optional dialogue in which Joel says something in accordance with Spock's legendary words "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," or the one," and she replies "That's awful." (Paraphrased.)
. And even after she pours her heart out to Joel and she makes him swear to her that his bullshit story is true, he STILL has the nerve to say yes.
because that is exactly what parents do. they lie, even if it is a small lie ( but this is a HUGE lie), to try and protect us from the stuff we dont, probably, understand.
To this day, I still can't find myself liking it. I don't hate it, I just feel like it was not only abrupt and sudden but it took away any s… moreort of sympathy I had for Joel.
See, Joel and Ellie are amazing characters. I wanted this game to end on a note that would make me still feel emotionally attached to the both them. Yes, Joel had good intentions, albeit selfish; however, his decision to save Ellie was very understandable and very relatable. Whether are not it was the morally right thing to do is up to the player (I thought it was). But I don't like the fact that he lies to her afterwards.
Why can't he just tell her the truth that Marlene (who was a friend of Ellie's) was going to willingly kill her in hopes of MAYBE find a cure? It's very clear that she doesn't buy this bullshit about others that are immune like her at all. And even after she pours her heart out to Joel and she makes him swear to her that his bullshit story is true, … [view original content]
It was godlike! Joel is a bad man he'd give up the human race for one girl. That last section made want to put the controller down but I didn't I was captivated. I was Joel in that last scene I made those horrible decisions. I killed those people man it was a damn good game and ending.
I honestly think that was intended. At first I had the same feeling as you, I was waiting for more even when the credits had wrapped up. But… more later I realized it had ended very concretely. Ellie was going to stick with Joel through whatever, Joel would protect Ellie at any cost, and they had a relatively safe place to do this. The cathartic moments towards the very end with Joel and Ellie's conversation were powerful, especially when she started talking about her best friend, and it was a fitting end to their journey.
The point of the whole story is that everything goes fucked and wrong so the ending was very fitting on the game. The whole journey thru the states was for nothing and I like it, sometimes hard work goes for nothing.
I would've been upset if the ending was some "Tralalalaa, Rainbows, Candy, Flowers!" kinda crap.
Comments
we dont know that. why would a very talkative girl that voices her opinion and calls people on their bullshit on the spot, if that was the case why wouldnt she tell him on the fucking "hey what the fuck, why am i a wake(alive)?" why wouldnt she start freaking out? or why would she even stay?
and that, that the "cure" its a guarantee is bullshit, the scientist didnt even know 100% it'd work. and even then how do we know that even if they work, how do we know that humans would actually make it work? as in making society work again. nope. it wouldnt. everyone that is alive has pretty much done fucked up shit and would be ready to do so again, and what makes anybody think the military wouldnt want to kill the fireflies and exploit the "cure" or even the fireflies to gain more control. even in the normal world saving "humanity" would be a hard decision.
P.S: not trying to fight just a discussion:P
It was a nice ending but allot of people have a point, Joel could've saved the world but instead he saved one girl, which takes bravery either way. I just wish he didn't have to kill anyone, I mean Joel was the only one with an actual weapon.
Well, I don't think we need to act like we have a complete or full answer to whether or not the vaccine would have made things worse, I personally don't think it's that black and white, it's a gray area.
Besides, I think Ellie knows Joel is lying, but sticks with him, because she loves him as a father or friend.
Well, Joel had a reason, the player either likes it or doesn't, but it's really not the game's fault that the story is linear, it gets praise because people love it the same way people love Walking Dead S1, despite the gameplay not being anything special or complex, the game's story, atmosphere, interaction, and characters, make the journey worth experiencing.
I might as well complain why the hell did Walking Dead S1 win game of the year when it's "adventure gameplay" is mediocre and kind of sloppy compared to other adventure games, and its story is cliché and generic and the choices don't really matter in the end despite the game advertising itself as a branching narrative.
nononononononono just no My point is this. Joel chooses the life of a girl over the world. No sane person would have done this. There's no way around this. A major choice like this should involve the player. I already stated in another post why it would add much more to the game.
When did I agree that Walking Dead should win GOTY? where did i say that. Was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'd still make the argument that compared to TLOU, that game is still a lot more original in terms of both gameplay and even story. Do you not realize how many third person cover based shooters there are nowadays?
The Ending was okay, I like how it shows the father-daughter relationship between Joel and Ellie which he never got to fully experience but I didn't like how he basically said "Fuck everyone else, I'm just gonna save and then lie to the girl who feels like a daughter to me even though she would probably want to die in order to save everyone else" That may be harsh but still, I didn't love it but I thought it was okay, Not a bad ending.
Didn't like it I get why Joel did all that but he should have told Ellie the truth. I can't see how Ellie won't find what he done. There is no way she would remain with Joel.
I am going to quote Ellie here: "After all we been through, everything thing that I've done...it can't be for nothing."
One of the main points of the game was bonding Ellie and Joel, by the end its a father and daughter relationship. By the end you can see it's not going to last. what's point, after the long bonding through the game it end with ending that make it clear what Joel did and not telling the truth their bond is just going to fall apart. Just because Ellie has a phobia not being alone, doesn't mean she would remain with Joel, She has some morals and Joel doesn't have any. this leads to fact Ellie could end up be scread of Joel is able to do. I not saying that Joel would abuse Ellie or anything I am just saying he doesn't have any limits.
I absolutely loved he ending. It took morally grey to an outstanding new level. Personally I agree with what Joel did, if only Marlene had gone about finding the cure in a different manner than she had I could have sided with her.
Well, due to what he's been through, he's probably not entirely sane, and it doesn't give us a clear answer that the cure would have worked or not, so that's not much of a fact that it would have worked.
No, TWD S1 is actually not very original in its storytelling, it's very predictable on where Lee's character is going to end up, Kenny is a typical family man who loses his wife and child, Ben is the typical screw up, Lily is the leader who goes nuts, Larry is the usual asshole dad and even Lee is a little generic with his backstory, gameplay is a little shallow and borrows from Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy in some ways, so it's just as not original as TLOU.
Ellie has optional dialogue in which Joel says something in accordance with Spock's legendary words "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," or the one," and she replies "That's awful." (Paraphrased.)
Yes they would. For easy illustration of this imagine a father sending his daughter to the slaughter for a chance at the cure. Would he do it? Maybe, but I highly doubt people would expect him to. I know I wouldn't.
No. You're not there to make calls. You're there to shoot things and watch what the creators gave you, nothing more. This isn't a case of "what would you do?" because it isn't you, it's Joel. You are spectating his life and his actions, not yours, and you have no influence on his character.
I second this. I think she saw right through his play. But she wants him (platonically) and she needs him so she accepts his lie.
I believe Joel's mentality was that the world has taken so much from him that when he finally gets something worth living for again, Joel makes sure that he keeps her safe, the cure/world be damned. Joel is a flawed character and at the end it shows that he is selfish and wants to live the rest of his life in safe place with Ellie. I'm sure he knows what he is doing and at that point is not sure what Ellie would choose to do, so he lies to keep things going his way. Me personally I wouldn't care for the world was cured and everyone lived happily ever after ending. IMO After everything Joel has been through he deserves this, screw the nameless, faceless, assholes that have done nothing for him and the people thinking that killing Ellie could possibly lead to a cure.
It wasn't pointless. It wasn't a cure story, it was a story about the bond that formed between Joel and Ellie. I guess if finding your only happiness in a world of sadness is pointless then you're correct.
I think its an interesting ending. It leaves us wondering if Ellie believes him or not. All she says is "Okay". And that's good. It leaves us gamers with something to discuss.
not trying to get into a argument over a game i do not care about. I personally didn't care for it. To each his/her own.
I didn't hate the ending.
In fact, I enjoyed the whole game.
I honestly hope they make a sequel.
Meh. It was a good ending but I feel it's a rather repetitive take on moral decisions. The man chooses the girl over saving the world.
this
she doesnt.. she knows
I didn't like it at first (not hate) because I felt like it ended a bit too abruptly. Then I played it again, looked at an analysis video, and paid a bit more attention to the final chapters of the game. Now I feel like the ending is very good. Not great as a lot of people else where say, but functional and understandable.
I was hoping the ending would leave me with a "The Walking Dead" or "Bioshock Infinite" feel, but it didn't really deliver with that.
"No. You're not there to make calls. You're there to shoot things and watch what the creators gave you, nothing more. This isn't a case of "what would you do?" because it isn't you, it's Joel. You are spectating his life and his actions, not yours, and you have no influence on his character."
Yeah, I agree. The player should have no control over the main character. In fact, I don't even want to shoot things. Just let the game play itself! Time to go through more hallways and cutscenes in FF XIII. You know what else I love? You missing the point. Making this a choice for the player would have benefited the game greatly for reasons I already stated. When I mean sane person, I'm talking about the player, not the character. Given us control over this one thing would have made the game a lot better. At worst, this change removes the disconnect between the player and the character. At best, it would add depth, surprise, more bang for your buck, makes you think about the ending, makes you discover stuff about yourself....
Honestly, I thought the game felt a little incomplete. When the credits rolled I was like, "Wait. That's it?"
If you don't want to shoot things then you're not playing the game. The story is set in stone and you are nothing but a bystander. And that's not a bad thing. Again this isn't your story it's Joel's.
Please do explain. The only thing I've seen is your confusion at why they didn't give you a choice.
In this string of replies? If so, you're very good at masquerading your "reasons" as drivel. They never attempted to appease the heroic "save the world" players. That wasn't the basis for this game, and adding it would have be detrimental to their characters because that isn't what Joel would have done. As having Kenny give a speech and then calmly walking off into the sunset went against his character for the support of the Kenny fanboys this would have gone against Joel's character for the support of people like you.
Depends if people truly connected with the bond between Joel and Ellie. Even in that case it isn't the players call. See above.
No it would have been a cheap cop out to appease a minority.
"If you don't want to shoot things then you're not playing the game. The story is set in stone and you are nothing but a bystander. And that's not a bad thing. Again this isn't your story it's Joel's."
if I'm a bystander in a game then it isn't a good game.
"Please do explain. The only thing I've seen is your confusion at why they didn't give you a choice."
I did, guess I'll have to post this again:
Explain to me how it wouldn't add depth, surprise, more bang for your buck or how it wouldn't make you think about the ending or make you discover stuff about yourself.... The game would have benefited greatly from player choice in the ending. End of story. I still have yet to hear a reason why the player of all things should be ignored in a game. Again, way to miss the most important part.
Okay, so you talk about Kenny fanboys? What? I don't get it, he's not the main playable character so it's irrelevant, next.
"Depends if people truly connected with the bond between Joel and Ellie. Even in that case it isn't the players call. See above."
AND AGAIN making this a choice for the player to MAKE would have strengthened the bond between you and Ellie. Thanks for making my point. NEXT.
"No it would have been a cheap cop out to appease a minority."
how dare i ask for interactivity in an interactive medium
By your definition maybe. I love the game for its story and it's interesting and realistic fighting mechanics. It's not often the player can die so easily and the shooting is much harder than your average aim assist shooter. Crafting was fairly interesting, though I'm the type of player to horde my shit so I never used anything I crafted.
Look at halo, another great franchise. They do focus more heavily on gameplay than TLOU but in the end those games also have no choice and you're nothing but a bystander, difference is master chief is the archetypal good guy so it's easier for the moral wannabes (wannabes because more often than not games are the only place their morals truly stand) to get their fill of gratification without having to actually be a good or moral person.
To your short sighted minds eye perhaps, but in the end having to consider his actions and reasoning is much more in depth than "well I could do either."
Surprise that they gave you the option? Adding something just for the sake of saying you have it? Ummm.... okay?
I don't think the addition of one ill placed choice counts as more bang for your buck. They could also add one more gun, or one more random mission, or one more deer in the background to give you "more bang for your buck." Any of them necessary, interesting, or worthwhile? No.
Most have put more thought into the ending expressly because they didn't know what to make of then ending or the actions of Joel. Adding the option to choose would only be detrimental to this because why question what you agree with? Most (and probably you) don't question things like the war on terror, taxes, or excessive access to the Internet because they coincide with your thoughts and beliefs.
I didn't miss it, it was just drivel. It wouldn't have benefited the game and your point of view is hardly and laughably "end of story" material.
No it's not. Context. I suggest you reread and comprehend the implications of comparing Kenny's remarkable and unbelievable response to Joel's would be response. Far from irrelevant.
I highly disagree. But to reiterate the other point "Even in that (your) case it isn't the players call."
You have interactivity via the combat, that's the game. The story is what you're trying to change.
Repetitive? Interesting take. I ask out of curiosity, what other examples have you seen this in?
I honestly think that was intended. At first I had the same feeling as you, I was waiting for more even when the credits had wrapped up. But later I realized it had ended very concretely. Ellie was going to stick with Joel through whatever, Joel would protect Ellie at any cost, and they had a relatively safe place to do this. The cathartic moments towards the very end with Joel and Ellie's conversation were powerful, especially when she started talking about her best friend, and it was a fitting end to their journey.
To this day, I still can't find myself liking it. I don't hate it, I just feel like it was not only abrupt and sudden but it took away any sort of sympathy I had for Joel.
See, Joel and Ellie are amazing characters. I wanted this game to end on a note that would make me still feel emotionally attached to the both them. Yes, Joel had good intentions, albeit selfish; however, his decision to save Ellie was very understandable and very relatable. Whether are not it was the morally right thing to do is up to the player (I thought it was). But I don't like the fact that he lies to her afterwards.
Why can't he just tell her the truth that Marlene (who was a friend of Ellie's) was going to willingly kill her in hopes of MAYBE find a cure? It's very clear that she doesn't buy this bullshit about others that are immune like her at all. And even after she pours her heart out to Joel and she makes him swear to her that his bullshit story is true, he STILL has the nerve to say yes. For God's sake Joel, do you have any idea how much hell Ellie has gone through just to save your crusty, old ass? She at least deserves your full honesty. It just doesn't seem fair to her. It's probably gonna comeback and bite him in the ass one day.
If she had no reservations and would stick with him no matter what she wouldn't ask him to swear in the first place.
Optional dialogue vs pivotal point of the ending of the game.
I think we're supposed to lose sympathy for Joel.
I'd bet a lot of money that the Last of Us 2 will be with Ellie as the PC.
No, I really do think that Ellie knows that he's lying , but stays with Joel because she loves him as a father or friend, due to what they've been through, of course, that's just my interpretation, but it makes sense.
All I'm saying is contradictory dialogue straight from her own mouth is there for anyone to witness.
Good foreshadowing there.
because that is exactly what parents do. they lie, even if it is a small lie ( but this is a HUGE lie), to try and protect us from the stuff we dont, probably, understand.
Usually the man ends up saving the world another way.
It was godlike! Joel is a bad man he'd give up the human race for one girl. That last section made want to put the controller down but I didn't I was captivated. I was Joel in that last scene I made those horrible decisions. I killed those people man it was a damn good game and ending.
I suppose.
I liked it.
The point of the whole story is that everything goes fucked and wrong so the ending was very fitting on the game. The whole journey thru the states was for nothing and I like it, sometimes hard work goes for nothing.
I would've been upset if the ending was some "Tralalalaa, Rainbows, Candy, Flowers!" kinda crap.