The point is it was the same person , because they were covering shifts, and the woodsman wanted something from Faith , but she didn't know what exactly (thats why they were fighting (besides what else can you want from whores except for sex))(because Nerissa worked disguised as Faith as woodsman's client , and Nerissa had some business with him , and Faith didn't know about it ) , which means that those were the 2 same persons at the end and at the beginning.
Sorry pal,but there are something that doesn't work at the begining of your theory.
The thing is that the person that was with woodsman in … morethe begining(Faith or Nerissa)is the same person that was in the ending.The quote "You're not bad as eveyone say you are "proves it.It means tha Bigby never met Nerissa or never met Faith.But the rest of the theory is correct and ireally like it.
Hmm, your points are very promising, but there are still some unclear things. But the most important one is: In your theory, in the 1st Episode Bigby saved and talked to Nerissa (glamoured as Faith). So when they seperate, Nerissa says "You're not as bad, as they say you are." But how could than Faith (Glamoured as Nerissa) know what the real Nerissa sayed that day and repeat it word for word at the very ending of the 5th episode "You're not as bad as they say you are." ?
In my opinion, the girl, Bigby mets at the beginning and the one he mets in the end, had to be be the same person! The big question is: Was it Faith, who was glamoured as Nerissa the whole time excapt in the beginning? Or! Was it Nerissa, being glamoured as Faith in the beginning and then tryed to revenge the real Faith, who was killed by Georgie?
Given all the other Facts, that you summoned, I tend to go with the first. It's always been Faith! Just wanted to point out this little logical mistake you made. The rest is great work DKsaNn! XD
I made an account just for you lol
For those who do not understand the ending hear me out. Nerissa was covering for faith with the woodsm… morean which is why she was glamoured like her in episode 1. When she returned to the club pudding and pie Faith (glamoured as Nerissa) had told Georgie everything. Georgie made an example out of them than killed Nerissa (he thought was Faith). Faith than continued to stay glamoured as Nerissa to hide her identity but she wanted revenge for Nerissa. Thus placing her head on bigby's stairs and triggering the entire game. Does it sound confusing well here are some proof that my theory is correct.
1: the girls commonly use glamour to cover each others shifts.
2: faith is a master of disguise as seen in her legend.
3: "for THOSE who are saying it cant be faith because her head would turn back" FALSE, Lily only turned back because bigby broke the spell tube.
4.The mirror in episode 1 couldn't find Fait… [view original content]
Thank you for this explanation. I finished TWAU yesterday and I thought Faith was always dead, and Bigby never even spoke with her, but with Nerissa. The argument you're making wasn't clear to me until your awesome post, now I get it.
I made an account just for you lol
For those who do not understand the ending hear me out. Nerissa was covering for faith with the woodsm… morean which is why she was glamoured like her in episode 1. When she returned to the club pudding and pie Faith (glamoured as Nerissa) had told Georgie everything. Georgie made an example out of them than killed Nerissa (he thought was Faith). Faith than continued to stay glamoured as Nerissa to hide her identity but she wanted revenge for Nerissa. Thus placing her head on bigby's stairs and triggering the entire game. Does it sound confusing well here are some proof that my theory is correct.
1: the girls commonly use glamour to cover each others shifts.
2: faith is a master of disguise as seen in her legend.
3: "for THOSE who are saying it cant be faith because her head would turn back" FALSE, Lily only turned back because bigby broke the spell tube.
4.The mirror in episode 1 couldn't find Fait… [view original content]
All people here have only posted the "Faith is Nerissa" theory, so I'm going to post the other one, for you to decide in which one to believ… moree:
1- Faith stole the photo of Crane and Lily. The Tweedles investigate and Nerissa tells Georgie to settle things down with The Crooked Man, but instead he orders Georgie to kill the prostitutes for treason.
2-Faith arrived at the Pudding and Pie, and Georgie kills her in front of Nerissa. Nerissa glamours as Faith and goes to The Woodsman's Apartment to look for Lily or try to create a fight and call Bigby's attention.
3-Bigby goes there and Nerissa makes sure he has a personal connection with Faith to motivate him to solve the case. After that, she plants Faith's head at The Woodlands, so Bigby knows she's dead and puts the ribbon in her mouth so Bigby knows exactly who she is and where she works (which would eventually lead Bigby to the Pudding and Pie).
4-Although the Mirror never shows F… [view original content]
Here's the thing. As she is leaving after the final conversation Nerissa tells Wolf that "You're not as bad as everyone says you are" (This is what leads to all of the quotes from previous moments throughout the game). This is exactly what Faith tells Wolf after their conversation in Episode 1. This leads me to believe that Faith at the beginning of Episode 1 is the same person as Nerissa at the end of Episode 5. So which is it? Is it the real Faith at the beginning of the game who then glamours as Nerissa for the rest of the game? Or is it Nerissa, glamoured as Faith, at the beginning who then unglamours to her real self for the rest of the game? The whole "running more tests" on Faith's body makes me believe the first scenario is true. If this is the case then it was really Nerissa who died first, glamoured as Faith. But why would Nerissa be glamoured as Faith if it wasn't her with Woody??? This is where I draw from several other theories on this thread. Maybe Nerissa, glamoured as Faith, died before episode 1. Faith found her but knew nothing would be done if she didn't get Bigby's attention (she has been finding ways to "point Bigby in the right direction" the whole time), so she set up the whole thing with Woody and even gave herself a matching bruise (either make up or told Woody to hit her) so that when she left Nerissa's head, glamoured as Faith, on the steps of the Woodlands, Bigby would investigate. Then Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa to hide her identity for the rest of the game.
I made an account just for you lol
For those who do not understand the ending hear me out. Nerissa was covering for faith with the woodsm… morean which is why she was glamoured like her in episode 1. When she returned to the club pudding and pie Faith (glamoured as Nerissa) had told Georgie everything. Georgie made an example out of them than killed Nerissa (he thought was Faith). Faith than continued to stay glamoured as Nerissa to hide her identity but she wanted revenge for Nerissa. Thus placing her head on bigby's stairs and triggering the entire game. Does it sound confusing well here are some proof that my theory is correct.
1: the girls commonly use glamour to cover each others shifts.
2: faith is a master of disguise as seen in her legend.
3: "for THOSE who are saying it cant be faith because her head would turn back" FALSE, Lily only turned back because bigby broke the spell tube.
4.The mirror in episode 1 couldn't find Fait… [view original content]
I dont think nerissa was covering faith in the woodsman's apartment because we found the woodsman was lilly's client in the third episode and there is a note in the puddin & pie from lilly to faith that says:"Faith, thanks for covering for me tonight! Let's talk before you go to the apartment - Lily." Faith was covering lilly in the woodsman's apartment
I made an account just for you lol
For those who do not understand the ending hear me out. Nerissa was covering for faith with the woodsm… morean which is why she was glamoured like her in episode 1. When she returned to the club pudding and pie Faith (glamoured as Nerissa) had told Georgie everything. Georgie made an example out of them than killed Nerissa (he thought was Faith). Faith than continued to stay glamoured as Nerissa to hide her identity but she wanted revenge for Nerissa. Thus placing her head on bigby's stairs and triggering the entire game. Does it sound confusing well here are some proof that my theory is correct.
1: the girls commonly use glamour to cover each others shifts.
2: faith is a master of disguise as seen in her legend.
3: "for THOSE who are saying it cant be faith because her head would turn back" FALSE, Lily only turned back because bigby broke the spell tube.
4.The mirror in episode 1 couldn't find Fait… [view original content]
I've read through a few theories, and then replayed the game once again. Here is my point on it:
Nerissa was Faith since Chapter 1.
She is covering Faith's Death, and took her role in seeing the Woodsman. If you take your time at the very start of the game, you can hear the mumbles through the door before surging in. The woodsman keep saying that "she will remember him", and "why don't you remember me". Of course she doesn't: It's not her. It's Nerissa. Faith's been here before. The donkey skin is in Mr Toad's hands.
And right after you offer her a light, did you notice something? Yeah. She get straight to the Ribbon, and look displeased. She's trying to get help right at the start, but she can't. She know she can't get help straight by asking politely to the Sheriff.
So after this conversation, she rushes through the Pudding&Pie, break open the jewel box to get the ring, and take her head to dispose of it all on the front porch. And so everything begins.
What happened BEFORE Chapter 1 ? The 3 girls had that plan. Lily took the Snow's Glamour, and they took the photo. They came back and prepare their things to escape, but Nerissa spoils it. Then, Georgie kills both Lily (still as Snow) and Faith (as herself). He then order Nerissa to cover the death of Faith by taking her leftover client, the woodsman.
Feeling guilty of the events, Nerissa tries to gain the help of the Sheriff with what happens in the whole story. Unable to ask directly due to the ribbon, she get the whole "head" idea. She also realizes she's able to "hint" the Sheriff without directly saying it, and continues to help him as much as she can this way.
Some debates around this post:
The Glamour only took off when they broke the seal: Lily and the Aunty Greenleaf are both on the same case.
The mirror has never shown any of the girls ever. They are all protected by the ribbon's spell. The old king never had a ribbon.
About the running tests of the Doc: My theory is that since they had multiple, and potentially cheap Glamours, it was hard to really identify. Especially since Faith is known to change appearance. Basically, it's here to confuse people. Also, he might just be trying to figure how she did get killed. After all, that's what they were trying to figure in the first place. How, not who. They were all certain it was Faith until the end of the game.
About Bufkin: He doesn't know anything about this. The quote is from the book and the story, it has nothing to do here.
The Tweedle Bros were looking after the photos. So they looked into Faith's apartment and Mr Toad. Her coat could still hold the photos. They were hired to clean the evidences. Faith initially had the photos.
There's one thing that still confuses me, and it's Room 207. Each ribbon we've seen remove; it had very little amount of blood. Also, Lily body was basically intact. They never retrieve Faith's body though. But I feel like Nerissa set up something with this room herself, the blood, and the photos, to be found by Wolf.
I don't think the whole "why don't you remember me" thing has to do with Nerissa being Faith. I think it's made very clear that it has to do with his obsession of being a "forgotten hero".
Plus, we find out later that the Woodsman was seeing Lily on a regular basis. So why would he hire Faith? Well, he didn't. The note states that Faith covered for Lily. If the girls had access to all this Glamour like everyone seems to think they do, why didn't Faith (or Nerissa, for those who think it was her in episode one) just Glamour as Lily, since she was the one who the Woodsman originally wanted?
As a personal opinion, I believe it was Faith at the beginning and Faith at the end, though how they got there, I'm honestly not sure. There are far too many variables to give a straight answer on that. While Nerissa being Glamoured as Faith seems to be the "easiest" answer (since it would explain why Nerissa said the same lines as Faith in the end) it just doesn't really make sense. Why Glamour as Faith covering a shift when she could've just gone as Lily?
Also, if you go to the magic mirror and ask to see faith, the mirror will respond with: These lips are sealed. So is the spell still active if she is dead? I don't think so...
I thought it made complete sense from a writing standpoint because Bigby didn't need to know anything about Nerissa. Bigby would need to know about Faith's backstory though because she was a murder victim and he needed to find out who would want to hurt her. Does that make sense?
Thank you DKasNn for the clear and to the point post. I back you 100%. Fazz, It wouldn't be Nerissa because they didn't shine ANY, ZIP, ZE… moreRO, light on Nerissa's tale/history other than she was the little mermaid. There's NO reason why they would go so in to detail on Faith's Story/Past only for it to not be her. It just doesn't make for good writing or any sense that way.
I don't remember it ever specifically stating that the woodsman was Lilly's client, aside from that note which could have been about anyone. This might be because I don't remember or that I just never got to it because of the choices I made.
I dont think nerissa was covering faith in the woodsman's apartment because we found the woodsman was lilly's client in the third episode an… mored there is a note in the puddin & pie from lilly to faith that says:"Faith, thanks for covering for me tonight! Let's talk before you go to the apartment - Lily." Faith was covering lilly in the woodsman's apartment
You forgot one thing, in episode one Woody told ''Faith'' " you don't remebmer me? And she actually did'nt, so that tells us that Nerrisa was glamoured as Faith, because if that was the real Faith she would have remembered Woody. Sorry if my grammar isn't exactly correct.
I made an account just for you lol
For those who do not understand the ending hear me out. Nerissa was covering for faith with the woodsm… morean which is why she was glamoured like her in episode 1. When she returned to the club pudding and pie Faith (glamoured as Nerissa) had told Georgie everything. Georgie made an example out of them than killed Nerissa (he thought was Faith). Faith than continued to stay glamoured as Nerissa to hide her identity but she wanted revenge for Nerissa. Thus placing her head on bigby's stairs and triggering the entire game. Does it sound confusing well here are some proof that my theory is correct.
1: the girls commonly use glamour to cover each others shifts.
2: faith is a master of disguise as seen in her legend.
3: "for THOSE who are saying it cant be faith because her head would turn back" FALSE, Lily only turned back because bigby broke the spell tube.
4.The mirror in episode 1 couldn't find Fait… [view original content]
I don't remember it ever specifically stating that the woodsman was Lilly's client, aside from that note which could have been about anyone. This might be because I don't remember or that I just never got to it because of the choices I made.
I think that faith is glamoured to look like Nerissa, because she drops some suddle hints before the end of the game, like when she cam into Bigby's office to talk to him and she asked if he liked her ribbon. I feel that Nerissa was not glamoured as faith in the beginning because she already admitted all of that stuff about telling Goergie that Faith stole a picture so why not just tell him the whole story. Unless of course there is something that we don't know about. But come on if she told him that she left her head at his door step then once again why not tell him the whole thing. I also don't think that Nerissa would want Bigby to know that she was glamoured as faith at all if she didn't just come out and tell him. But Faith might have wanted Bigby to figure out. While Faith seems like the type of person who would rather drop hints then be direct it is also possible that for some reason she can't tell him.
It was clearly Faith. The entire Usual Suspects audio flashback makes it extraordinarily clear. I mean, it's Nerissa glamoured as Faith to see a guy she's never met and doesn't even know who he is when Lily was his regular Saturday night thing? Seems a bit much. I've never even understood how this is even an argument.
Sometimes I wonder if it's because people don't want the Little Mermaid to be murdered by a fairy tale character so obscure no one had ever heard of her.
Has anybody ever thought of this, Faith said the exact same words to Bigby before she may or may not have died, and she was wearing the ribbon too, When Nerissa is walking away she says them as she is about to turn a corner. It gives you the option to "let her go" or "chase after her", so if Faith died after saying those words telltale is probably saying that Nerissa is about to die like Faith did and nothing you did in this game really mattered thus making Bigby and Snow dig deeper to try to find what's really going on in fabletown and giving "the wolf among us 2" a good storyline
something i find funny ive not seen any one else talk about is georgie when bigby first gets there georgie said he would hook him up he points at narissa but says something on the lines of he would want some one more durable aka like faith whose supposedly dead i think faith was faith at the beginning but then glamoured to narissa idk just thats really sticking with me
Does anyone remember when you use the mirror after having found "Faith's" head to, first check on possible suspects, and Then check in on the fables you've learned about through the books, that the mirror Clearly shows Faith's father deceased, Prince Lawernce's life dwindling, yet for Faith's location, the mirror's "lips are sealed"?
I take this as evidence toward Faith still being alive and Nerissa glamoured as "Faith" being found at the beginning of the game.
Evidence I feel Many have Overlooked or Forgotten
Does anyone remember when you use the mirror after having found "Faith's" head to, firs… moret check on possible suspects, and Then check in on the fables you've learned about through the books, that the mirror Clearly shows Faith's father deceased, Prince Lawernce's life dwindling, yet for Faith's location, the mirror's "lips are sealed"?
I take this as evidence toward Faith still being alive and Nerissa glamoured as "Faith" being found at the beginning of the game.
I'm just curious, I'm not trying to argue or say your wrong, but which specific words did The Mirror use that lead you to believe that Faith was still alive?
I do agree that her body was being shielded magically due to the ribbon (considering Prince Lawrence and Faith's long-deceased father were shown), but watching the scene, I don't hear any specific words that point to her still being alive. Although, considering the Magic Mirror showed her deceased father, it seems that it wouldn't matter. The ribbon seems to be the only thing holding The Mirror back from being able to see Faith. I wish I could know for sure wether the ribbon's spell is still active once the wearer dies, or if after Vivian sacrifices herself (breaking the spell), if The Mirror could then find Faith.
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
Bold Text = Character or person of interest.
Italics Text = Item or place of interest, or pronoun of character currently being discussed.
"Quotations Around Text" = An alleged person, a quote, or a title.
I think Faith stayed glamoured as Nerissa because she wanted to escape and leave everything behind her. Remember her story? "She would hide … moreher beauty so she could escape his kingdom." -Bufkin. It's the same concept. Faith never actually heard Crooked Man give Georgie the order to kill Lily and Nerissa, she just gave her testimony at the trial to put him away/support Bigby. She also put Nerissa's head (glamoured as Faith) Bigby's doorstep in order for him to begin investigating. Also the fact that she lied at the trial made her testimony false and if anyone found out, then she would be in danger.
Faith, Nerissa, Lily all seemed to have a history of covering for each other. Nerissa could have been covering for Faith when Georgie killed "Faith," explaining why the "Nerissa" at the Puddin' N' Pie was such a crappy dancer. Nerissa's job was to be a dancer, why would she be so bad at it? It wasn't Nerissa. It was Faith glamoured as Nerissa. Fai… [view original content]
The problem with your theory is that fairh was covering for Lily, not Nerissa. Bur let's humor the possibility that faith it's glamoured Nerissa.Wouldn't it have made more sense that Nerissa should had been glglamoured as Lily?
It could be that all the P&P strippers/prostitutes are still under a spell and we have to fix that, they both ended the same way... I think it would have to mean Faith is Nerissa the whole time, but that doesnt tell us why Faiths head never changed back. So that means Faith is dead. The only logical explanation to me is that Nerissa is trying to tell you something but she is still afraid because of the Ribbon Spell. Idk what to think though, I am pissed that it didnt give you an option to kiss Snow
All really good points, but there's just one thing that keeps me from being fully convinced. There was a specific part of the game that MADE you look through a book and read about Faith, finding out SHE WAS A MASTER OF DISGUISE making sure you were informed of this. Why would Telltale take the time to do that? There was hardly no description of other Fables that went into as much detail as Faith's. Later in the episode, a donkey skin cloak was found in Toad's apartment to remind players of Faith's disguising. There was no way to skip it, no way to avoid Bigby seeing it, and no way to avoid the conversation. Telltale made sure this was included. SO, Why would Faith, the master of disguise, be killed and that detail Telltale took the time to make sure we learn, has no longer any importance?
Faith is 100% dead for sure, the glamour would have worn off, just as Mr. Toads did, that means that Nerissa was doing one of the following:… more
Watching you and Faith in Episode one
Spelled by someone else to say the same ending
Getting a foreshadow that shes about to die
Just simply conning you for more cash
All really good points, but there's just one thing that keeps me from being fully convinced. There was a specific part of the game that MADE you look through a book and read about Faith, finding out SHE WAS A MASTER OF DISGUISE making sure you were informed of this. Why would Telltale take the time to do that? There was hardly no description of other Fables that went into as much detail as Faith's. Later in the episode, a donkey skin cloak was found in Toad's apartment to remind players of Faith's disguising. There was no way to skip it, no way to avoid Bigby seeing it, and no way to avoid the conversation. Telltale made sure this was included. SO, Why would Faith, the master of disguise, be killed and that detail we learned has no longer any importance?
Faith is 100% dead for sure, the glamour would have worn off, just as Mr. Toads did, that means that Nerissa was doing one of the following:… more
Watching you and Faith in Episode one
Spelled by someone else to say the same ending
Getting a foreshadow that shes about to die
Just simply conning you for more cash
I don't know about "Faith's"head changing back. I wish we knew more about glamours and exactly how they worked. However, I don't see any reason why her head would have changed back. Lily'sbody only changed back after Bigby broke the glamour tube. Although, I don't believe Faith'sbody was ever recovered. If they had, they could have just looked for one of those glamour tubes, and there would be your answer as far as who it really is at the end. I think the writers never had her body be found to prevent logical disconnects.
Now THAT is something that has kept me thinking... I don't understand why "Nerissa" is still wearing her ribbon at the end. Supposedly, (I haven't experienced this first hand, I still need to play again) if you try to remove her ribbon in the very final scene she still resists you and acts oddly about it. You can try to remove it much earlier in the game in Bigby'soffice but the spell was still in effect at this point. At the end, the spell was supposedly broken (because Vivian decided to sacrifice herself), and it seems weird that Nerissa would keep her ribbon on. As Bigby explains it, those ribbons were basically chains, and they essentially kept the girls hostage. It seems that she would have wanted to take off that ribbon as soon as she got the chance.
And yeah. Haha. That would have been nice. Snow is a bae.
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
Bold Text = Character or person of interest.
Italics Text = Item or place of interest, or pronoun of character currently being discussed.
"Quotations Around Text" = An alleged person, a quote, or a title.
Wait... What the hell?? What do you mean Mr. Toad's glamour wore off? In my play through, he never used a glamour.
Also, have you guys ever considered who's jean fabric and blood was over by the trash can at the very beginning? When you investigating around "Faith's" head when Snow initially finds it, you find some blood where someone appears to have jumped the fence. Some denim-esque fabric that you can assume is from the person jumping the fence is lying nearby also. No matter who you think is still alive at the end, neither of the girls wore jeans or any other denim-like clothing, right? If you believe Faith / Nerissa when they claim they placed the head on the steps at the beginning, it would make sense that the fabric you find comes from one of them, yes?
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
Bold Text = Character or person of interest.
Italics Text = Item or place of interest, or pronoun of character currently being discussed.
"Quotations Around Text" = An alleged person, a quote, or a title.
Faith is 100% dead for sure, the glamour would have worn off, just as Mr. Toads did, that means that Nerissa was doing one of the following:… more
Watching you and Faith in Episode one
Spelled by someone else to say the same ending
Getting a foreshadow that shes about to die
Just simply conning you for more cash
Are the comics good? I am trying to decide if I should check them out. I didn't expect to become as interested and enthralled in the world of "The Fables" as I have.
Bold Text = Character or person of interest.
Italics Text = Item or place of interest, or pronoun of character currently being discussed.
"Quotations Around Text" = An alleged person, a quote, or a title.
I agree with you that it doesn't make too much sense for them to focus on that just to throw it out, but that could have very well been a red herring. I think it makes more sense for it to be Faith, and the ending alludes to that again when Bigby recalls Bufkin mentioning how Faith used her coat to escape her fathers kingdom.
However, I have one glaring question with the "Faith theory" that I just can't answer... Why would faith need to break into her own jewelry box?
In the club's vanity room you can find Faith'sjewelry box busted open, just before you first meet "Nerissa". We can assume the box was broken into to retrieve the ring with Faith'sfamily crest. (This was the ring that was tied to Faith'sribbon which Bigby found in her mouth.) If Faith is really just disguised as Nerissa, she should've been able to just unlock the box with her key or combination. However, if Nerissa really was just trying to get Bigby's attention with the head, and needed a way to give insight into who Faith really was, she would've HAD to break open the box to retrieve the ring. Remember, that the crest on the ring was the really the ONLY thing that helped Bigby identify who Faith was (since she was such a little-known Fable), when he had initially found the head.
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
Bold Text = Character or person of interest.
Italics Text = Item or place of interest, or pronoun of character currently being discussed.
"Quotations Around Text" = An alleged person, a quote, or a title.
There is evidence to what I'm about to say. Faith is nerissa and is alive the whole way through for the following reason. When asking the mirror about faith it replies that you cannot find them as the spell of the ribbon is preventing it meaning she is alive as you would see her decapitated head like you saw the bones of her father if she was dead as the ribbons magic would have gone off.
Hmmm... Interesting. I'll have to go back and replay that scene. I wonder if you can see any patches or pieces torn out. I do vaguely remember her wearing a light denim-jean like the fabric that was found. Thanks!
Unfortunately, that doesn't provide anymore insight to wether it really was Faith or Nerissa. We already know that whoever placed the head was either Nerissa, or Faith glamoured as "Nerissa".
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
Bold Text = Character or person of interest.
Italics Text = Item or place of interest, or pronoun of character currently being discussed.
"Quotations Around Text" = An alleged person, a quote, or a title.
Comments
The point is it was the same person , because they were covering shifts, and the woodsman wanted something from Faith , but she didn't know what exactly (thats why they were fighting (besides what else can you want from whores except for sex))(because Nerissa worked disguised as Faith as woodsman's client , and Nerissa had some business with him , and Faith didn't know about it ) , which means that those were the 2 same persons at the end and at the beginning.
Hmm, your points are very promising, but there are still some unclear things. But the most important one is: In your theory, in the 1st Episode Bigby saved and talked to Nerissa (glamoured as Faith). So when they seperate, Nerissa says "You're not as bad, as they say you are." But how could than Faith (Glamoured as Nerissa) know what the real Nerissa sayed that day and repeat it word for word at the very ending of the 5th episode "You're not as bad as they say you are." ?
In my opinion, the girl, Bigby mets at the beginning and the one he mets in the end, had to be be the same person! The big question is: Was it Faith, who was glamoured as Nerissa the whole time excapt in the beginning? Or! Was it Nerissa, being glamoured as Faith in the beginning and then tryed to revenge the real Faith, who was killed by Georgie?
Given all the other Facts, that you summoned, I tend to go with the first. It's always been Faith! Just wanted to point out this little logical mistake you made. The rest is great work DKsaNn! XD
Thank you for this explanation. I finished TWAU yesterday and I thought Faith was always dead, and Bigby never even spoke with her, but with Nerissa. The argument you're making wasn't clear to me until your awesome post, now I get it.
Thanks!
Thank you! Gosh. It couldn't be more obvious that the "Faith" Bigby met was Nerissa glamoured as Faith.
Here's the thing. As she is leaving after the final conversation Nerissa tells Wolf that "You're not as bad as everyone says you are" (This is what leads to all of the quotes from previous moments throughout the game). This is exactly what Faith tells Wolf after their conversation in Episode 1. This leads me to believe that Faith at the beginning of Episode 1 is the same person as Nerissa at the end of Episode 5. So which is it? Is it the real Faith at the beginning of the game who then glamours as Nerissa for the rest of the game? Or is it Nerissa, glamoured as Faith, at the beginning who then unglamours to her real self for the rest of the game? The whole "running more tests" on Faith's body makes me believe the first scenario is true. If this is the case then it was really Nerissa who died first, glamoured as Faith. But why would Nerissa be glamoured as Faith if it wasn't her with Woody??? This is where I draw from several other theories on this thread. Maybe Nerissa, glamoured as Faith, died before episode 1. Faith found her but knew nothing would be done if she didn't get Bigby's attention (she has been finding ways to "point Bigby in the right direction" the whole time), so she set up the whole thing with Woody and even gave herself a matching bruise (either make up or told Woody to hit her) so that when she left Nerissa's head, glamoured as Faith, on the steps of the Woodlands, Bigby would investigate. Then Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa to hide her identity for the rest of the game.
I dont think that's true
I dont think nerissa was covering faith in the woodsman's apartment because we found the woodsman was lilly's client in the third episode and there is a note in the puddin & pie from lilly to faith that says:"Faith, thanks for covering for me tonight! Let's talk before you go to the apartment - Lily." Faith was covering lilly in the woodsman's apartment
I've read through a few theories, and then replayed the game once again. Here is my point on it:
Nerissa was Faith since Chapter 1.
She is covering Faith's Death, and took her role in seeing the Woodsman. If you take your time at the very start of the game, you can hear the mumbles through the door before surging in. The woodsman keep saying that "she will remember him", and "why don't you remember me". Of course she doesn't: It's not her. It's Nerissa. Faith's been here before. The donkey skin is in Mr Toad's hands.
And right after you offer her a light, did you notice something? Yeah. She get straight to the Ribbon, and look displeased. She's trying to get help right at the start, but she can't. She know she can't get help straight by asking politely to the Sheriff.
So after this conversation, she rushes through the Pudding&Pie, break open the jewel box to get the ring, and take her head to dispose of it all on the front porch. And so everything begins.
What happened BEFORE Chapter 1 ? The 3 girls had that plan. Lily took the Snow's Glamour, and they took the photo. They came back and prepare their things to escape, but Nerissa spoils it. Then, Georgie kills both Lily (still as Snow) and Faith (as herself). He then order Nerissa to cover the death of Faith by taking her leftover client, the woodsman.
Feeling guilty of the events, Nerissa tries to gain the help of the Sheriff with what happens in the whole story. Unable to ask directly due to the ribbon, she get the whole "head" idea. She also realizes she's able to "hint" the Sheriff without directly saying it, and continues to help him as much as she can this way.
Some debates around this post:
The Glamour only took off when they broke the seal: Lily and the Aunty Greenleaf are both on the same case.
The mirror has never shown any of the girls ever. They are all protected by the ribbon's spell. The old king never had a ribbon.
About the running tests of the Doc: My theory is that since they had multiple, and potentially cheap Glamours, it was hard to really identify. Especially since Faith is known to change appearance. Basically, it's here to confuse people. Also, he might just be trying to figure how she did get killed. After all, that's what they were trying to figure in the first place. How, not who. They were all certain it was Faith until the end of the game.
About Bufkin: He doesn't know anything about this. The quote is from the book and the story, it has nothing to do here.
The Tweedle Bros were looking after the photos. So they looked into Faith's apartment and Mr Toad. Her coat could still hold the photos. They were hired to clean the evidences. Faith initially had the photos.
There's one thing that still confuses me, and it's Room 207. Each ribbon we've seen remove; it had very little amount of blood. Also, Lily body was basically intact. They never retrieve Faith's body though. But I feel like Nerissa set up something with this room herself, the blood, and the photos, to be found by Wolf.
I don't think the whole "why don't you remember me" thing has to do with Nerissa being Faith. I think it's made very clear that it has to do with his obsession of being a "forgotten hero".
Plus, we find out later that the Woodsman was seeing Lily on a regular basis. So why would he hire Faith? Well, he didn't. The note states that Faith covered for Lily. If the girls had access to all this Glamour like everyone seems to think they do, why didn't Faith (or Nerissa, for those who think it was her in episode one) just Glamour as Lily, since she was the one who the Woodsman originally wanted?
As a personal opinion, I believe it was Faith at the beginning and Faith at the end, though how they got there, I'm honestly not sure. There are far too many variables to give a straight answer on that. While Nerissa being Glamoured as Faith seems to be the "easiest" answer (since it would explain why Nerissa said the same lines as Faith in the end) it just doesn't really make sense. Why Glamour as Faith covering a shift when she could've just gone as Lily?
He thinks Faith is Little Red Riding Hood that's why he is mad. And I think there is no conspiracy ending was made just to mess with us.
Also, if you go to the magic mirror and ask to see faith, the mirror will respond with: These lips are sealed. So is the spell still active if she is dead? I don't think so...
I thought it made complete sense from a writing standpoint because Bigby didn't need to know anything about Nerissa. Bigby would need to know about Faith's backstory though because she was a murder victim and he needed to find out who would want to hurt her. Does that make sense?
I don't remember it ever specifically stating that the woodsman was Lilly's client, aside from that note which could have been about anyone. This might be because I don't remember or that I just never got to it because of the choices I made.
You forgot one thing, in episode one Woody told ''Faith'' " you don't remebmer me? And she actually did'nt, so that tells us that Nerrisa was glamoured as Faith, because if that was the real Faith she would have remembered Woody. Sorry if my grammar isn't exactly correct.
If you interrogated Woody he would say that he was expecting Lily. And that is the end of that story.
I think that faith is glamoured to look like Nerissa, because she drops some suddle hints before the end of the game, like when she cam into Bigby's office to talk to him and she asked if he liked her ribbon. I feel that Nerissa was not glamoured as faith in the beginning because she already admitted all of that stuff about telling Goergie that Faith stole a picture so why not just tell him the whole story. Unless of course there is something that we don't know about. But come on if she told him that she left her head at his door step then once again why not tell him the whole thing. I also don't think that Nerissa would want Bigby to know that she was glamoured as faith at all if she didn't just come out and tell him. But Faith might have wanted Bigby to figure out. While Faith seems like the type of person who would rather drop hints then be direct it is also possible that for some reason she can't tell him.
It was clearly Faith. The entire Usual Suspects audio flashback makes it extraordinarily clear. I mean, it's Nerissa glamoured as Faith to see a guy she's never met and doesn't even know who he is when Lily was his regular Saturday night thing? Seems a bit much. I've never even understood how this is even an argument.
Sometimes I wonder if it's because people don't want the Little Mermaid to be murdered by a fairy tale character so obscure no one had ever heard of her.
This entire theory hinges on one question: Why would Nerissa glamour herself as Faith to see one of Lily's regulars?
who?
Has anybody ever thought of this, Faith said the exact same words to Bigby before she may or may not have died, and she was wearing the ribbon too, When Nerissa is walking away she says them as she is about to turn a corner. It gives you the option to "let her go" or "chase after her", so if Faith died after saying those words telltale is probably saying that Nerissa is about to die like Faith did and nothing you did in this game really mattered thus making Bigby and Snow dig deeper to try to find what's really going on in fabletown and giving "the wolf among us 2" a good storyline
something i find funny ive not seen any one else talk about is georgie when bigby first gets there georgie said he would hook him up he points at narissa but says something on the lines of he would want some one more durable aka like faith whose supposedly dead i think faith was faith at the beginning but then glamoured to narissa idk just thats really sticking with me
Evidence I feel Many have Overlooked or Forgotten
Does anyone remember when you use the mirror after having found "Faith's" head to, first check on possible suspects, and Then check in on the fables you've learned about through the books, that the mirror Clearly shows Faith's father deceased, Prince Lawernce's life dwindling, yet for Faith's location, the mirror's "lips are sealed"?
I take this as evidence toward Faith still being alive and Nerissa glamoured as "Faith" being found at the beginning of the game.
Add on:
With the words the mirror uses, it states not only is Faith alive, but still has the enchanted ribbon attached.
I'm just curious, I'm not trying to argue or say your wrong, but which specific words did The Mirror use that lead you to believe that Faith was still alive?
I do agree that her body was being shielded magically due to the ribbon (considering Prince Lawrence and Faith's long-deceased father were shown), but watching the scene, I don't hear any specific words that point to her still being alive. Although, considering the Magic Mirror showed her deceased father, it seems that it wouldn't matter. The ribbon seems to be the only thing holding The Mirror back from being able to see Faith. I wish I could know for sure wether the ribbon's spell is still active once the wearer dies, or if after Vivian sacrifices herself (breaking the spell), if The Mirror could then find Faith.
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
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It could be that all the P&P strippers/prostitutes are still under a spell and we have to fix that, they both ended the same way... I think it would have to mean Faith is Nerissa the whole time, but that doesnt tell us why Faiths head never changed back. So that means Faith is dead. The only logical explanation to me is that Nerissa is trying to tell you something but she is still afraid because of the Ribbon Spell. Idk what to think though, I am pissed that it didnt give you an option to kiss Snow
Faith is 100% dead for sure, the glamour would have worn off, just as Mr. Toads did, that means that Nerissa was doing one of the following:
Watching you and Faith in Episode one
Spelled by someone else to say the same ending
Getting a foreshadow that shes about to die
Just simply conning you for more cash
All really good points, but there's just one thing that keeps me from being fully convinced. There was a specific part of the game that MADE you look through a book and read about Faith, finding out SHE WAS A MASTER OF DISGUISE making sure you were informed of this. Why would Telltale take the time to do that? There was hardly no description of other Fables that went into as much detail as Faith's. Later in the episode, a donkey skin cloak was found in Toad's apartment to remind players of Faith's disguising. There was no way to skip it, no way to avoid Bigby seeing it, and no way to avoid the conversation. Telltale made sure this was included. SO, Why would Faith, the master of disguise, be killed and that detail Telltale took the time to make sure we learn, has no longer any importance?
All really good points, but there's just one thing that keeps me from being fully convinced. There was a specific part of the game that MADE you look through a book and read about Faith, finding out SHE WAS A MASTER OF DISGUISE making sure you were informed of this. Why would Telltale take the time to do that? There was hardly no description of other Fables that went into as much detail as Faith's. Later in the episode, a donkey skin cloak was found in Toad's apartment to remind players of Faith's disguising. There was no way to skip it, no way to avoid Bigby seeing it, and no way to avoid the conversation. Telltale made sure this was included. SO, Why would Faith, the master of disguise, be killed and that detail we learned has no longer any importance?
You could still be totally right.
I don't know if you read the comics or not but I think that would change your mind about Faith being 100% dead.
I don't know about "Faith's" head changing back. I wish we knew more about glamours and exactly how they worked. However, I don't see any reason why her head would have changed back. Lily's body only changed back after Bigby broke the glamour tube. Although, I don't believe Faith's body was ever recovered. If they had, they could have just looked for one of those glamour tubes, and there would be your answer as far as who it really is at the end. I think the writers never had her body be found to prevent logical disconnects.
Now THAT is something that has kept me thinking... I don't understand why "Nerissa" is still wearing her ribbon at the end. Supposedly, (I haven't experienced this first hand, I still need to play again) if you try to remove her ribbon in the very final scene she still resists you and acts oddly about it. You can try to remove it much earlier in the game in Bigby's office but the spell was still in effect at this point. At the end, the spell was supposedly broken (because Vivian decided to sacrifice herself), and it seems weird that Nerissa would keep her ribbon on. As Bigby explains it, those ribbons were basically chains, and they essentially kept the girls hostage. It seems that she would have wanted to take off that ribbon as soon as she got the chance.
And yeah. Haha. That would have been nice. Snow is a bae.
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
Wait... What the hell?? What do you mean Mr. Toad's glamour wore off? In my play through, he never used a glamour.
Also, have you guys ever considered who's jean fabric and blood was over by the trash can at the very beginning? When you investigating around "Faith's" head when Snow initially finds it, you find some blood where someone appears to have jumped the fence. Some denim-esque fabric that you can assume is from the person jumping the fence is lying nearby also. No matter who you think is still alive at the end, neither of the girls wore jeans or any other denim-like clothing, right? If you believe Faith / Nerissa when they claim they placed the head on the steps at the beginning, it would make sense that the fabric you find comes from one of them, yes?
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
Are the comics good? I am trying to decide if I should check them out. I didn't expect to become as interested and enthralled in the world of "The Fables" as I have.
I agree with you that it doesn't make too much sense for them to focus on that just to throw it out, but that could have very well been a red herring. I think it makes more sense for it to be Faith, and the ending alludes to that again when Bigby recalls Bufkin mentioning how Faith used her coat to escape her fathers kingdom.
However, I have one glaring question with the "Faith theory" that I just can't answer... Why would faith need to break into her own jewelry box?
In the club's vanity room you can find Faith's jewelry box busted open, just before you first meet "Nerissa". We can assume the box was broken into to retrieve the ring with Faith's family crest. (This was the ring that was tied to Faith's ribbon which Bigby found in her mouth.) If Faith is really just disguised as Nerissa, she should've been able to just unlock the box with her key or combination. However, if Nerissa really was just trying to get Bigby's attention with the head, and needed a way to give insight into who Faith really was, she would've HAD to break open the box to retrieve the ring. Remember, that the crest on the ring was the really the ONLY thing that helped Bigby identify who Faith was (since she was such a little-known Fable), when he had initially found the head.
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.
There is evidence to what I'm about to say. Faith is nerissa and is alive the whole way through for the following reason. When asking the mirror about faith it replies that you cannot find them as the spell of the ribbon is preventing it meaning she is alive as you would see her decapitated head like you saw the bones of her father if she was dead as the ribbons magic would have gone off.
At the end of the game when you are approached by nerissa look at her jeans they are of the same material.
Hmmm... Interesting. I'll have to go back and replay that scene. I wonder if you can see any patches or pieces torn out. I do vaguely remember her wearing a light denim-jean like the fabric that was found. Thanks!
Unfortunately, that doesn't provide anymore insight to wether it really was Faith or Nerissa. We already know that whoever placed the head was either Nerissa, or Faith glamoured as "Nerissa".
I don't necessarily side with either theory at the moment, I'm just trying to understand both schools of thought more thoroughly, by playing devil's advocate.