This sucks" and "this rocks" contribute nothing of significance in the scholarly world, and throwing around the most commonly used secondhand argument of "well, yeah, opinions" contributes nothing new either.
You're only continuing to prove how difficult it is for you to comprehend the difference between subjective and objective. "This sucks" and … more"this rocks" contribute nothing of significance in the scholarly world, and throwing around the most commonly used secondhand argument of "well, yeah, opinions" contributes nothing new either. This is factual, not opinion. Tales from the Borderlands was great, but you people that can only support one thing by bashing another are the worst.
This sucks" and "this rocks" contribute nothing of significance in the scholarly world, and throwing around the most commonly used secondhand argument of "well, yeah, opinions" contributes nothing new either.
Just like your post...again.
I liked Life Is Strange, but the ending really, really dropped it for me. Mostly because I saw that ending coming since episode 3, and I was hoping they wouldn't take that route. But they did.
I was 100% on board with the game when the nightmare sequence seemed like that was how we were going to end our game. Finding a solution through this chaotic mess of 'well me kind of screwed up how reality and physics work'. But then it just turned out to be a nightmare, and the two endings we're given both make literally everything we've done up to that point, pointless.
Honestly, I think the game could have concluded in a stronger way if there was no time travel powers to begin with. The stories that were in the game already were more than enough to keep me interested, and the time travel was only ever used as a tool to get just a little extra dialogue and info.
I'm tired of this bashing threads.
Life is Strange concluded great, Max realized a great lesson in life and it required her to get up to … morethat point in Friday to realize that her powers are doing something wrong, despite the intentions of good.
Do you really play games just for the choices? I think the story is great, and it connects much more to people by bringing up problems that most teenagers face. Especially suicide.
If you think Life is Strange sucked, then you're not looking hard enough.
The Walking Dead Season One (not played Season Two) has so far been the weak link in my Telltale experience. While I know that 90-odd percent of my choices will not have any real impact and what impact the remaining ones have will be at the end of a particular character's story, the problem I had with Walking Dead starting with the second episode is I always saw the strings.
I first realized I was trapped inside of a plot train when I was asked if we should go to the farm. Clearly, the game wasn't going to let me not go to the farm, so why did it ask me if we should. That I didn't trust the folks inviting me just made me feel like I was being forced to act out a horribly cliched zombie movie. And this continued throughout, as I found evidence that they were up to no good, but my character was powerless to use that knowledge to change the course of events. I would go off alone with someone I knew I couldn't trust and so on.
Then there was the Kenny Problem, in which the first two episodes are set up in such a way that I can position myself against Kenny, but the entire thrust of the story is that me and Kenny become best bros. That I came to despise the character was just salt in the wound. No matter how much crap I dished to him, no matter how many times I sided against him, the game insisted we were pals.
Again, don't give me such options if the story doesn't allow for those options to play out in any kind of meaningful way.
As for The Wolf Among Us, Tales From The Borderlands, and Game of Thrones; I can still see where the invisible walls are in the narrative, the lines which I am not allowed to cross, but I never felt as though the options I was given would naturally lead me to cross those boundaries. Such as no matter how pissed I might be at Vaughn at certain points of the game, the narrative and the dialogue choices were such that I could either be a friend who was okay with him or a friend who was really pissed off at him, or even a friend that I was secretly using... but I always I felt like there was a friendship there regardless of what choices I made.
But Tales gets the award for letting situations play out very differently in the short term. Episode 2 and 3 both feature parallel tracks which adds a bit of value to replaying the game. The first time I chose to put off going to New Haven and was rewarded with an always enjoyable Loader Bot section, but heading off to New Haven first resulted in a quite funny bit with Athena and Jenny. Likewise, trusting Fiona or trusting Jack leads to two very different resolutions of that particular stand-off.
Plus, being a comedy, trying out the different options is always leading to new laughs... something the other games really don't have because they're more serious.
You are confusing a mechanic of the game to what Telltale is actually trying to do.To give you an example when you choose who you want to come help you find Clementine in season 5 it's just a mechanic. It's not supposed to have anything to say. It simply gives the player an idea on who he can call his friend and help makes the story more interactive. The whole "illusion of chocie" is what telltale have made most of their recent games with. They are telling a story with the same beginning and the same end. If you actually want to know what Telltalte tried to do with the story of Lee and Clementine I suggest you check out this theory. enter link description here
The Walking Dead Season One (not played Season Two) has so far been the weak link in my Telltale experience. While I know that 90-odd percen… moret of my choices will not have any real impact and what impact the remaining ones have will be at the end of a particular character's story, the problem I had with Walking Dead starting with the second episode is I always saw the strings.
I first realized I was trapped inside of a plot train when I was asked if we should go to the farm. Clearly, the game wasn't going to let me not go to the farm, so why did it ask me if we should. That I didn't trust the folks inviting me just made me feel like I was being forced to act out a horribly cliched zombie movie. And this continued throughout, as I found evidence that they were up to no good, but my character was powerless to use that knowledge to change the course of events. I would go off alone with someone I knew I couldn't trust and so on.
Then there wa… [view original content]
These games aren't failures. Just a constant learning process on how to deliver a game the best way possible. Keep in my mind that most of the games you listed are older than Tales.
I'm pretty clear on what Telltale is trying to do. You're in a narrative stream and you get to position yourself at various points of the river. The illusion of choice is about making it feel like your actions are making a difference even though you know deep down they're not. It doesn't matter if your steer your boat around the rock to the left or the right, but it feels like you're in control.
At it's best, it's about tailoring a narrative to your personality. Digby and the Huntman are enemies, but you supply what kind of enemies they are.
Again, where The Walking Dead failed me was it kept giving me decisions which didn't make me feel like I was steering the narrative. Yes, I know the rudder isn't doing much of anything, but if we're going to the farm, then asking me if we should go to the farm is a false choice. If the point was to take that choice away from me (bad guy pulls a gun and says "you're coming whether you like it or not"), then okay, a major plot point is being revealed a bit earlier than if I had given the "right" answer. I know I have to deal with that character.
But without that character forcing the narrative down the desired path, then it's very clearly the writers denying me something which they offered to me.
To use a really simple example. Let's say I'm walking down a path and there's a fence between me and a field. Now, assuming they don't offer me a choice, I'll just stay on the path but let's say they give me an option to climb the fence. Without that option, I wouldn't have wondered what was on the other side of that fence because I understand the concept of invisible walls... but by giving me that option, it makes me want to see what's in that field. Now if they prevent me from hopping the fence, I'm irritated at them, because I was happy to follow the path I was on until they provided me with a false choice to get off of it.
And that Telltale has done a much, much, much better job of NOT DOING THIS since The Walking Dead Season One, I think they understand the problem, too, and corrected the hell out of it. The choices they gave, whether they intended it or not, seemed to promise much more than anyone could deliver. They got a bit of blow-back from people who wanted more and refined the writing process too keep expectations closer to what they could practically achieve.
Life Is Strange is in a league of it's own. TfTB finale was incredible... Prolly one of my favorite finale's of Telltale's thus far.... I REALLY hope there is a TfTB season 2. I'm a huge fan both seasons of TWD.
I liked Life Is Strange, but the ending really, really dropped it for me. Mostly because I saw that ending coming since episode 3, and I was… more hoping they wouldn't take that route. But they did.
I was 100% on board with the game when the nightmare sequence seemed like that was how we were going to end our game. Finding a solution through this chaotic mess of 'well me kind of screwed up how reality and physics work'. But then it just turned out to be a nightmare, and the two endings we're given both make literally everything we've done up to that point, pointless.
Honestly, I think the game could have concluded in a stronger way if there was no time travel powers to begin with. The stories that were in the game already were more than enough to keep me interested, and the time travel was only ever used as a tool to get just a little extra dialogue and info.
I agree. If there were no powers and it was a complete mystery plot; trying to find out what happened to Rachel, I think it would have been loads better. But because she had this ability I saw that ending coming since episode 1. Like you I thought they'd do something different, but they didn't and the finale fell right on its face.
Sacrificing Arcada Bay was the least disappointing, only because all that work you did trying to save Chloe wasn't wasted. But how it was presented made no sense given Chloe's mom died and it seems she has no care in the world.
I liked Life Is Strange, but the ending really, really dropped it for me. Mostly because I saw that ending coming since episode 3, and I was… more hoping they wouldn't take that route. But they did.
I was 100% on board with the game when the nightmare sequence seemed like that was how we were going to end our game. Finding a solution through this chaotic mess of 'well me kind of screwed up how reality and physics work'. But then it just turned out to be a nightmare, and the two endings we're given both make literally everything we've done up to that point, pointless.
Honestly, I think the game could have concluded in a stronger way if there was no time travel powers to begin with. The stories that were in the game already were more than enough to keep me interested, and the time travel was only ever used as a tool to get just a little extra dialogue and info.
I agree in the ending part, but you can't compare all the adventures of all the 3 mass effect games to tales, all the choices of the other games changed ME3 a lot. (Not counting the ending)
Tales was definetely better than ME3. ME2 is debatable, that game was a masterpiece.
I want to say that Tales from the Borderlands succeeded where Mass Effect 3 failed. Maybe that is too high a praise, but I am giving it because I love this game and I love the ending.
I'm tired of this bashing threads.
Life is Strange concluded great, Max realized a great lesson in life and it required her to get up to … morethat point in Friday to realize that her powers are doing something wrong, despite the intentions of good.
Do you really play games just for the choices? I think the story is great, and it connects much more to people by bringing up problems that most teenagers face. Especially suicide.
If you think Life is Strange sucked, then you're not looking hard enough.
It might be because it fit in with the way I play these games, but I found that the journey was really about Max figuring out who she was rather than how she affected other people's lives.
She's actually called on it by alternate self, when she realizes that using the Rewind power was less about making a difference and much more about getting people to like her. If we want to get a bit meta about it, I think this is a comment on how gamers play these games, where they spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure out the Optimal Outcome instead of truly playing the story.
When I failed to save Kate, I realized I had been doing exactly that, using the Rewind to try to get everyone (but the supposed villains) to like me. Kate killed herself because I really wasn't paying all that much attention to her story apart from how it affected Max's investigation. I didn't really care, but I wanted whatever perk went along with making Kate like me. After that, I actually stopped exploring other actions unless the one I picked was really bad... and the game seemed to notice I was more confident, because that's when everyone in the game started remarking upon it.
In the end, the message seemed to be more about not worrying about other people's opinions so much. To find that sweet spot between respecting other people's opinions and not caring what other people think. You either would let the whole world burn to save your best friend or you would honor her wishes... the exact same choice given to you in Episode Three. The events in the story... even though they were ultimately wiped out (either by time travel or by apocalypse), Max still remembers those moments. They still inform who Max is. Kind of a cheat, but very much in tune with the basic themes of self-discovery.
I liked Life Is Strange, but the ending really, really dropped it for me. Mostly because I saw that ending coming since episode 3, and I was… more hoping they wouldn't take that route. But they did.
I was 100% on board with the game when the nightmare sequence seemed like that was how we were going to end our game. Finding a solution through this chaotic mess of 'well me kind of screwed up how reality and physics work'. But then it just turned out to be a nightmare, and the two endings we're given both make literally everything we've done up to that point, pointless.
Honestly, I think the game could have concluded in a stronger way if there was no time travel powers to begin with. The stories that were in the game already were more than enough to keep me interested, and the time travel was only ever used as a tool to get just a little extra dialogue and info.
I don't think the suicide aspect was that important. Plus I think a lot of people are hypocrites about suicide so I don't buy people considering it a problem as much as they say. People are only understanding about it when it suits them. When my friends cousin was suicidal, many people only pretended to care until they discovered he had previously been convicted of animal abuse, then some even encouraged him to kill himself.
I'm tired of this bashing threads.
Life is Strange concluded great, Max realized a great lesson in life and it required her to get up to … morethat point in Friday to realize that her powers are doing something wrong, despite the intentions of good.
Do you really play games just for the choices? I think the story is great, and it connects much more to people by bringing up problems that most teenagers face. Especially suicide.
If you think Life is Strange sucked, then you're not looking hard enough.
He didn't call them failures. He was more or less saying that Tales succeeded in what these games failed. If Telltale keeps going this direction, their games are bound to become better and better.
These games aren't failures. Just a constant learning process on how to deliver a game the best way possible. Keep in my mind that most of the games you listed are older than Tales.
I actually really liked Life Is Strange. The ending however, it was very disappointing to me. You really had none of your earlier choices matter, or you sacrificed an entire town for Chloe. It felt like a huge let down to me and many others, however there are people who enjoy the ending. Another thing is that there were so many unanswered questions
Right. Not failures, sorry. But I still say past TT games did a pretty decent job at making people feel they have control over the story. I mean sometimes you don't know that picking a dialogue choice did affect something, until you go back and replay the game if only to see something different play out. These games can be crazy like that.
He didn't call them failures. He was more or less saying that Tales succeeded in what these games failed. If Telltale keeps going this direction, their games are bound to become better and better.
I think we are really attached to Tales and we don't realize that it's not that much better then LiS or Until Dawn... Even though Until Dawn had more immersive gameplay and way more intuitive choices.
Tales was the best telltale game to date, no question... But are we maybe just fanboying a little to hard right now? I think we are all just so connected to the players and love the storyline so much that we somewhat ignore the small negatives in TFBL that we wouldn't ignore in LiS or TWD.
Like the fact that choosing whether to Rule or not Rule Hyperion has little to no effect on the episode 5 storyline. And though it's not a big deal for me, that's what we always complain about when it comes to these episodic games. Our choices have the same effect in Telltale games, while in other company based games they spend more time to develop different endings.
But Tales was a telltale masterpiece. From the echo eye and looting aspect, to the awkward and humorous dialogue. Still loved it, but it's hard to compare all the games
Er, while I agree that TFTB managed to deliver a better choice-consequence system, LIS' wasn't bad either. Yes, it was very disappointing how we felt that our choices didn't matter at all in the end (if you made that choice), but in my opinion the choices in LIS affected the journey rather than the destination. Several dialogue lines change depending on your choices (e.g. if that person dies in EP2, if you manage to be friends with Victoria and other characters, the final choice in EP2, etc, all of them can lead to different conversations). The nightmare scene changes a bit, there are some different outcomes, you get a whole scene with that person in EP4 if they didn't die in EP2, facial expressions can change, etc.
None of the choices in LIS were really impactful, but there are a lot of details that can change. Oh, and I disagree that the choices in TWD S2 were more impactful than LIS'. Of course it could've been a lot better, but I can't see why some people are bashing LIS so much when it comes to choice-consequence.
Yeah, you can choose different vault hunters for glorious final fight depending on your choices. But there is only one ending so I have no idea why are you bitching about endings of other games.
I don't think LiS made these huge improvements over Telltale's system like some people have made it out to, but rather refined on some of the things we've seen Telltale do. Either way, be it big or large, improvements are improvements, and they help to push this little interactive-narrative genre forwards, and help improve the quality of subsequent games, whoever makes them.
I think a large amount of LiS' impact comes from their setting. It's centered around specific town with a concise cast of characters, all of which are introduced by episode 2 (with the exception of William, since he's not really brought up too much until episode 3). Blackwell largely acts as a 'hub' of sorts for the first three episodes, a place that you constantly visit. All of these allow for various 'impacts' to surface: text messages from characters, emails on your computer, emails on other people's computers, posters, flyers, white-boards, notes, warnings, graffiti, background conversations, newspaper articles, vandalism (Nathan/Victoria trashing Max's room) and other physical changes, like a stain from knocking over a drink, getting a window broken, leaving a mark or dent in a vehicle, and so forth.
Compare this to the world of The Walking Dead: a cast of rotating characters, a prolific, cross-country story, no electronics or communication. You have no real anchors to work with here. Given the nature of TWD, characters coming and going is commonplace, which means that seeing the 'consequences' of your actions will not always be guaranteed. Since the story is always on the move, you don't have any specific locations that you stay at for much more than 2 episodes, and you don't have computers and phones or any of that to send messages to people. This universe simply doesn't have access to all of these outlets that LiS had access to.
If you were to strip down most of those elements from LiS, it would largely look and play like a Telltale game does. However, I will concede that they have made some improvements here and there when it comes to character interactions and determinant scenes, but again, not to a huge amount like some of the game's press would like to make you think. Getting a unique scene with that person is a good example, but then again, we got unique scenes with Ben in TWD, Finn in GoT, Felix in TFTB, and so on. However, that person also providing you some outside help later in the episode, and that person being mentioned and referred to by other characters in a completely different way depending on your choices (texts, posters, notes, etc) was something that none of the determinant characters in Telltale games have really done before.
So yeah, they've made small but welcomed improvements to Telltale's formula, but I still wouldn't say they've completely outdone or beat Telltale at their own game necessarily. A lot of that comes from the setting of the series allowing them a lot more creative lee-way in choice impacts. A lot of people tend to overlook that when they try to make the argument for LiS being better than Telltale's stuff in the choices department.
Er, while I agree that TFTB managed to deliver a better choice-consequence system, LIS' wasn't bad either. Yes, it was very disappointing ho… morew we felt that our choices didn't matter at all in the end (if you made that choice), but in my opinion the choices in LIS affected the journey rather than the destination. Several dialogue lines change depending on your choices (e.g. if that person dies in EP2, if you manage to be friends with Victoria and other characters, the final choice in EP2, etc, all of them can lead to different conversations). The nightmare scene changes a bit, there are some different outcomes, you get a whole scene with that person in EP4 if they didn't die in EP2, facial expressions can change, etc.
None of the choices in LIS were really impactful, but there are a lot of details that can change. Oh, and I disagree that the choices in TWD S2 were more impactful than LIS'. Of course it could've been a lot better, but I can't see why some people are bashing LIS so much when it comes to choice-consequence.
I don't know why a decision game needs more than one Ending. And TftBL shows that perfectly. It only has one Ending, But it's decisions still have more impact, than LiS. It's with determinant characters, too. LiS's determinant character (you know who i mean) has no real impact to the story after she could die. But TftBL has this Problem too. But Not as obvious. But the worst case was by Far in Until Dawn. Everybody could die, But after the first possible death of a character, he/she was irrelevant for the Story. Best example: Jess and matt.
Yeah, you can choose different vault hunters for glorious final fight depending on your choices. But there is only one ending so I have no idea why are you bitching about endings of other games.
Tales from the Borderlands didn't succeeded in all aspects .
I would go into detail on it but I'm really growing tired of these threads made be these Borderland fan-boys. (yawn)
Comments
Just like your post...again.
Alright, just keep mimicking my posts without understanding what you're talking about, it's cool.
Whatever u say chief
I liked Life Is Strange, but the ending really, really dropped it for me. Mostly because I saw that ending coming since episode 3, and I was hoping they wouldn't take that route. But they did.
I was 100% on board with the game when the nightmare sequence seemed like that was how we were going to end our game. Finding a solution through this chaotic mess of 'well me kind of screwed up how reality and physics work'. But then it just turned out to be a nightmare, and the two endings we're given both make literally everything we've done up to that point, pointless.
Honestly, I think the game could have concluded in a stronger way if there was no time travel powers to begin with. The stories that were in the game already were more than enough to keep me interested, and the time travel was only ever used as a tool to get just a little extra dialogue and info.
The Walking Dead Season One (not played Season Two) has so far been the weak link in my Telltale experience. While I know that 90-odd percent of my choices will not have any real impact and what impact the remaining ones have will be at the end of a particular character's story, the problem I had with Walking Dead starting with the second episode is I always saw the strings.
I first realized I was trapped inside of a plot train when I was asked if we should go to the farm. Clearly, the game wasn't going to let me not go to the farm, so why did it ask me if we should. That I didn't trust the folks inviting me just made me feel like I was being forced to act out a horribly cliched zombie movie. And this continued throughout, as I found evidence that they were up to no good, but my character was powerless to use that knowledge to change the course of events. I would go off alone with someone I knew I couldn't trust and so on.
Then there was the Kenny Problem, in which the first two episodes are set up in such a way that I can position myself against Kenny, but the entire thrust of the story is that me and Kenny become best bros. That I came to despise the character was just salt in the wound. No matter how much crap I dished to him, no matter how many times I sided against him, the game insisted we were pals.
Again, don't give me such options if the story doesn't allow for those options to play out in any kind of meaningful way.
As for The Wolf Among Us, Tales From The Borderlands, and Game of Thrones; I can still see where the invisible walls are in the narrative, the lines which I am not allowed to cross, but I never felt as though the options I was given would naturally lead me to cross those boundaries. Such as no matter how pissed I might be at Vaughn at certain points of the game, the narrative and the dialogue choices were such that I could either be a friend who was okay with him or a friend who was really pissed off at him, or even a friend that I was secretly using... but I always I felt like there was a friendship there regardless of what choices I made.
But Tales gets the award for letting situations play out very differently in the short term. Episode 2 and 3 both feature parallel tracks which adds a bit of value to replaying the game. The first time I chose to put off going to New Haven and was rewarded with an always enjoyable Loader Bot section, but heading off to New Haven first resulted in a quite funny bit with Athena and Jenny. Likewise, trusting Fiona or trusting Jack leads to two very different resolutions of that particular stand-off.
Plus, being a comedy, trying out the different options is always leading to new laughs... something the other games really don't have because they're more serious.
You are confusing a mechanic of the game to what Telltale is actually trying to do.To give you an example when you choose who you want to come help you find Clementine in season 5 it's just a mechanic. It's not supposed to have anything to say. It simply gives the player an idea on who he can call his friend and help makes the story more interactive. The whole "illusion of chocie" is what telltale have made most of their recent games with. They are telling a story with the same beginning and the same end. If you actually want to know what Telltalte tried to do with the story of Lee and Clementine I suggest you check out this theory. enter link description here
These games aren't failures. Just a constant learning process on how to deliver a game the best way possible. Keep in my mind that most of the games you listed are older than Tales.
I'm pretty clear on what Telltale is trying to do. You're in a narrative stream and you get to position yourself at various points of the river. The illusion of choice is about making it feel like your actions are making a difference even though you know deep down they're not. It doesn't matter if your steer your boat around the rock to the left or the right, but it feels like you're in control.
At it's best, it's about tailoring a narrative to your personality. Digby and the Huntman are enemies, but you supply what kind of enemies they are.
Again, where The Walking Dead failed me was it kept giving me decisions which didn't make me feel like I was steering the narrative. Yes, I know the rudder isn't doing much of anything, but if we're going to the farm, then asking me if we should go to the farm is a false choice. If the point was to take that choice away from me (bad guy pulls a gun and says "you're coming whether you like it or not"), then okay, a major plot point is being revealed a bit earlier than if I had given the "right" answer. I know I have to deal with that character.
But without that character forcing the narrative down the desired path, then it's very clearly the writers denying me something which they offered to me.
To use a really simple example. Let's say I'm walking down a path and there's a fence between me and a field. Now, assuming they don't offer me a choice, I'll just stay on the path but let's say they give me an option to climb the fence. Without that option, I wouldn't have wondered what was on the other side of that fence because I understand the concept of invisible walls... but by giving me that option, it makes me want to see what's in that field. Now if they prevent me from hopping the fence, I'm irritated at them, because I was happy to follow the path I was on until they provided me with a false choice to get off of it.
And that Telltale has done a much, much, much better job of NOT DOING THIS since The Walking Dead Season One, I think they understand the problem, too, and corrected the hell out of it. The choices they gave, whether they intended it or not, seemed to promise much more than anyone could deliver. They got a bit of blow-back from people who wanted more and refined the writing process too keep expectations closer to what they could practically achieve.
I don't think it succeeded per se but I do think it handled choices better.
Life Is Strange is in a league of it's own. TfTB finale was incredible... Prolly one of my favorite finale's of Telltale's thus far.... I REALLY hope there is a TfTB season 2. I'm a huge fan both seasons of TWD.
I agree... I love LIS... but the ending.... well it was totally disappointing.
I agree. If there were no powers and it was a complete mystery plot; trying to find out what happened to Rachel, I think it would have been loads better. But because she had this ability I saw that ending coming since episode 1. Like you I thought they'd do something different, but they didn't and the finale fell right on its face.
Sacrificing Arcada Bay was the least disappointing, only because all that work you did trying to save Chloe wasn't wasted. But how it was presented made no sense given Chloe's mom died and it seems she has no care in the world.
I agree in the ending part, but you can't compare all the adventures of all the 3 mass effect games to tales, all the choices of the other games changed ME3 a lot. (Not counting the ending)
Tales was definetely better than ME3. ME2 is debatable, that game was a masterpiece.
The main selling point for LiS is literally "your choices matter"
It wouldn't have sold crap without that label.
"You could basically skip to episode 5 and make the Huge final choice without feeling like you missed anything."
This is not true at all, you'd be missing a lot of context about the choice you're making.
I liked the end of Life is Strange.
It might be because it fit in with the way I play these games, but I found that the journey was really about Max figuring out who she was rather than how she affected other people's lives.
She's actually called on it by alternate self, when she realizes that using the Rewind power was less about making a difference and much more about getting people to like her. If we want to get a bit meta about it, I think this is a comment on how gamers play these games, where they spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure out the Optimal Outcome instead of truly playing the story.
When I failed to save Kate, I realized I had been doing exactly that, using the Rewind to try to get everyone (but the supposed villains) to like me. Kate killed herself because I really wasn't paying all that much attention to her story apart from how it affected Max's investigation. I didn't really care, but I wanted whatever perk went along with making Kate like me. After that, I actually stopped exploring other actions unless the one I picked was really bad... and the game seemed to notice I was more confident, because that's when everyone in the game started remarking upon it.
In the end, the message seemed to be more about not worrying about other people's opinions so much. To find that sweet spot between respecting other people's opinions and not caring what other people think. You either would let the whole world burn to save your best friend or you would honor her wishes... the exact same choice given to you in Episode Three. The events in the story... even though they were ultimately wiped out (either by time travel or by apocalypse), Max still remembers those moments. They still inform who Max is. Kind of a cheat, but very much in tune with the basic themes of self-discovery.
I don't think the suicide aspect was that important. Plus I think a lot of people are hypocrites about suicide so I don't buy people considering it a problem as much as they say. People are only understanding about it when it suits them. When my friends cousin was suicidal, many people only pretended to care until they discovered he had previously been convicted of animal abuse, then some even encouraged him to kill himself.
He didn't call them failures. He was more or less saying that Tales succeeded in what these games failed. If Telltale keeps going this direction, their games are bound to become better and better.
I actually really liked Life Is Strange. The ending however, it was very disappointing to me. You really had none of your earlier choices matter, or you sacrificed an entire town for Chloe. It felt like a huge let down to me and many others, however there are people who enjoy the ending. Another thing is that there were so many unanswered questions
Right. Not failures, sorry. But I still say past TT games did a pretty decent job at making people feel they have control over the story. I mean sometimes you don't know that picking a dialogue choice did affect something, until you go back and replay the game if only to see something different play out. These games can be crazy like that.
I think we are really attached to Tales and we don't realize that it's not that much better then LiS or Until Dawn... Even though Until Dawn had more immersive gameplay and way more intuitive choices.
Tales was the best telltale game to date, no question... But are we maybe just fanboying a little to hard right now? I think we are all just so connected to the players and love the storyline so much that we somewhat ignore the small negatives in TFBL that we wouldn't ignore in LiS or TWD.
Like the fact that choosing whether to Rule or not Rule Hyperion has little to no effect on the episode 5 storyline. And though it's not a big deal for me, that's what we always complain about when it comes to these episodic games. Our choices have the same effect in Telltale games, while in other company based games they spend more time to develop different endings.
But Tales was a telltale masterpiece. From the echo eye and looting aspect, to the awkward and humorous dialogue. Still loved it, but it's hard to compare all the games
Er, while I agree that TFTB managed to deliver a better choice-consequence system, LIS' wasn't bad either. Yes, it was very disappointing how we felt that our choices didn't matter at all in the end (if you made that choice), but in my opinion the choices in LIS affected the journey rather than the destination. Several dialogue lines change depending on your choices (e.g. if that person dies in EP2, if you manage to be friends with Victoria and other characters, the final choice in EP2, etc, all of them can lead to different conversations). The nightmare scene changes a bit, there are some different outcomes, you get a whole scene with that person in EP4 if they didn't die in EP2, facial expressions can change, etc.
None of the choices in LIS were really impactful, but there are a lot of details that can change. Oh, and I disagree that the choices in TWD S2 were more impactful than LIS'. Of course it could've been a lot better, but I can't see why some people are bashing LIS so much when it comes to choice-consequence.
Yeah, you can choose different vault hunters for glorious final fight depending on your choices. But there is only one ending so I have no idea why are you bitching about endings of other games.
I don't think LiS made these huge improvements over Telltale's system like some people have made it out to, but rather refined on some of the things we've seen Telltale do. Either way, be it big or large, improvements are improvements, and they help to push this little interactive-narrative genre forwards, and help improve the quality of subsequent games, whoever makes them.
I think a large amount of LiS' impact comes from their setting. It's centered around specific town with a concise cast of characters, all of which are introduced by episode 2 (with the exception of William, since he's not really brought up too much until episode 3). Blackwell largely acts as a 'hub' of sorts for the first three episodes, a place that you constantly visit. All of these allow for various 'impacts' to surface: text messages from characters, emails on your computer, emails on other people's computers, posters, flyers, white-boards, notes, warnings, graffiti, background conversations, newspaper articles, vandalism (Nathan/Victoria trashing Max's room) and other physical changes, like a stain from knocking over a drink, getting a window broken, leaving a mark or dent in a vehicle, and so forth.
Compare this to the world of The Walking Dead: a cast of rotating characters, a prolific, cross-country story, no electronics or communication. You have no real anchors to work with here. Given the nature of TWD, characters coming and going is commonplace, which means that seeing the 'consequences' of your actions will not always be guaranteed. Since the story is always on the move, you don't have any specific locations that you stay at for much more than 2 episodes, and you don't have computers and phones or any of that to send messages to people. This universe simply doesn't have access to all of these outlets that LiS had access to.
If you were to strip down most of those elements from LiS, it would largely look and play like a Telltale game does. However, I will concede that they have made some improvements here and there when it comes to character interactions and determinant scenes, but again, not to a huge amount like some of the game's press would like to make you think. Getting a unique scene with that person is a good example, but then again, we got unique scenes with Ben in TWD, Finn in GoT, Felix in TFTB, and so on. However, that person also providing you some outside help later in the episode, and that person being mentioned and referred to by other characters in a completely different way depending on your choices (texts, posters, notes, etc) was something that none of the determinant characters in Telltale games have really done before.
So yeah, they've made small but welcomed improvements to Telltale's formula, but I still wouldn't say they've completely outdone or beat Telltale at their own game necessarily. A lot of that comes from the setting of the series allowing them a lot more creative lee-way in choice impacts. A lot of people tend to overlook that when they try to make the argument for LiS being better than Telltale's stuff in the choices department.
I don't know why a decision game needs more than one Ending. And TftBL shows that perfectly. It only has one Ending, But it's decisions still have more impact, than LiS. It's with determinant characters, too. LiS's determinant character (you know who i mean) has no real impact to the story after she could die. But TftBL has this Problem too. But Not as obvious. But the worst case was by Far in Until Dawn. Everybody could die, But after the first possible death of a character, he/she was irrelevant for the Story. Best example: Jess and matt.
Tales from the Borderlands didn't succeeded in all aspects .
I would go into detail on it but I'm really growing tired of these threads made be these Borderland fan-boys. (yawn)
(yawn)