Going to mention one of my favorite threads from back in the day. It's from 2014 so many people may not have seen it.
"Okay, I think i… moret's significant how episode 3 starts off with Clementine looking at the moth on the tree. I looked it up and some of the symbolic meanings for the moth are:
Vulnerability
Determination
Concealment
Attraction
Subtlety
Intuition
Faith
All of these are traits that can describe Clementine. Clementine is the moth.
Now, regarding Kenny and Luke, if you look at their name meanings, Kenny's name meaning is "handsome; fire born, & born of fire." Luke's meaning is "light."
Moths are attracted to light. They find the light in the darkness. Kenny and Luke are the sources of light in The Walking Dead, but Kenny is like fire. and you know that saying, "Like a moth attracted to a flame" or something like that, meaning that the moth goes to the flame only to burn and die.
Now, before the Kenny fa… [view original content]
The blue on Hector's bite is actually a result of the lighting/rendering. Not sure what specifically causes it to look that way, but it's not supposed to be appearing blue.
Omid was also right behind her when the door startled her, so of course her reflex would be to protect herself, even if she didn't mean to actually shoot anyone.
I always reread my own comment first for context and man are there some blatant typos! And what happened to your font, man?
Wrong my ass. She was pretty much right, since half the group abandons them and she ends up getting shot. She doesn't try to get Sarah killed, she doesn't want Sarah to get other people killed. Literally the exact opposite. Well, the robbing is true, I'll give you that, but she has a good point in that arvo hiding the medicine made no sense and he might have just been a junkie.
Look, the point she should've handled all of that much better than she did, being an "expert survivalist" and all. But instead, she ended up ensuring the destruction of the group; her coming back just meant she got to see all of it happen with one change.
And as for fucking Luke, again, Luke is a big boy and he made a choice too.
Ya don't say. It takes two to tango after all, but she's the one who asked to dance. Because "feminism," I guess.
they also didn't think to have either rebecca or kenny notice she was dead. Now if that doesn't feel artificial, I don't know what does.
shit, that just got me thinking. If you play like sarah's your friend, why the fuck can't you bring up sarah is dead to kenny when he's whining about "MUH SARITA OH WOE IS ME". Christ, the longer you think about these games the worse the writing gets. Truly.
And that's why Sarah's death sucks!
No but seriously, there is an assload of problems that her canon death causes to the story as a whole and the blatant OOC oversights are some of the worst. The developers admitting they wrote parts of the episode to reflect that they hated her didn't help put out the fire either.
uh, yeah. So why are we arguing again?
Cause people love to victim blame?
No, that was more a lazy and convenient suicide attempt if anything. He was still definitely depressed at that point.
I suppose. He can multitask, believe it or not.
He needed to get back his will to go on, THEN sacrifice himself. The only time you even see Nick sorta content is at the lodge at the night, he actually seems to have gained a sense of humor, asking Luke if he's come to tuck him in. Then ironically he gets to go back to being depressed when they tell him about mathew. Poor Nick.
I guess that's a fair point?
Well, his in-game apology sucked and lacked conviction and responsibility. "I got kinda aggro." N**** YOU JUST ALMOST SHOT A LITTLE GIRL IN THE FACE. When you almost murder a little girl, yeah a sacrifice isn't so far-fetched as a redemptive option to me. Fact is, there haven't been very many good "sacrifices" in these games, they're all cheesy and contrived. And telltale seems to be trying to softly retcon Lee's death as if he somehow sacrificed himself for clementine instead of dying no matter what due to a senseless mistake.
I guess I know where the censuring came in. But true dat.
Though to me, Lee's death was him refusing to die before he made sure she was safe and able to survive without him.
hell if I know what means, I'm guessing not good.
Molly, Kenny, and "jesus."
Eh, I'm kinda ambivalent, but it made me cringe a bit the first time. Maybe if they spoke english like they were meant to originally...? They're so disposable, anyway.
No, I'm pretty sure it was Spanish. Unless I'm forgetting something
Kinda like the 400 days crew. Who doesn't want more gratuitous death? Kidding.
...Uh-huuuh....
Well, I dunno, something about those chapters in 400 days just got me invested in those characters, especially with their journey to this unknown camp. I certainly don't like them being left behind to the implication of being devoured by a walker herd brought on by our "heroes"
True. It's why I was kinda hoping at least Tavia and Becca showed up in "Season 3". Maybe Russell and Shel too.
Make the episodes a decent length, there's no problem having four extra people. This isn't a movie, it's supposed to be a game. I happen to enjoy large groups of characters, too. And large save files? Who doesn't love that.
Speak the truth!
I think keeping a limited number is still for the best, cause otherwise no one will get much development or screentime without Cast Herding.
And I meant to say the games coding and what not, which could take up a lot of space on the hard drive.
He's even more of a fake ultimate hero than Kenny is, except Kenny at least knows he's a failure.
I know that's kinda what he ended up being and Jane was basically there to indirectly make him realize it. Jane coming back may or may not have meant he got to come to terms with it, at least.
Wasn't intended? You have proof or are you speculating based on evidence?
Interviews with GameInformer and Christine Lakin herself mentions that Jane's character was reworked considerably inbetween episodes in part due to how fans took a liking to her and Mike. And looking back, it's actually very noticeable.
So this is on the fly writing, well no surprise there. But I dunno, yes Jane suddenly had a drastically expanded role in ep 4 compared to her bit part in ep 3. But something was set up between Clem and Jane in ep 3, as well. The staring at her and walking away when noticed, the dirty bug-eyed look she gives clem when she approaches her "sleeping"
Yeah, she was supposed to be more of a hardass who, while acknowledging Clementine's skill, still found her annoying at times due to having little patience for things she deems stupid.
Or... is that something they wrote around? Did they originally not intend for that to be because Clem reminded her of her sister Jaime?
Oh god, now this is messing with my head something fierce. gaaaaaargh
I get the feeling the Jaime thing may have been added in later for the sake of making her "tragic," but the Molly comparison was seemingly something they themselves noticed beforehand, so who knows.
well, until later on with Arvo.
No, she's not malicious but that doesn't change facts. She WILL get Clem killed if the timer runs out. That's a fact.
And Jane lets it happen. Sarah at no point asked Clementine to stay, probably because she wasn't aware of the danger they were in.
Psychologically issues will fuck with you, man. Aint' dat right, Jane?
I know, I know, I don't even have anything against Sarah, really. I'm just sick of all the shitting on Jane and I think it's a bit hypocritical.
That's one of the reasons people hate Jane, hilariously enough. Fuck!
I'm only so hard on her because she was so hard on everyone else and the writers/executives were clearly really cocky with her(and Kenny) and thus didn't bother to have her properly answer for it.
And Reggie might have lived a teeny bit longer, at least. But the guy was a bit of a clod. He didn't bother checking on the girls until much later, maybe he didn't think Carver would actually go so far as to kill him?
As he said, he was really desperate to stay on "Bill's" good side by getting his work done the best he could, so unfortunately, looking out for himself meant he wasn't doing the job he was actually given. Poor guy.
And as I said before, Carver is even worse for not only encouraging that mindset, but also for dealing out punishment at all when he was only supposed to be checking on how they were coming along.
Er... something got lost in translation. Jane never mentions what?
Sarah getting Reggie killed.
Again, not to beat a dead horse's atoms here, but part of what made Jane's behavior so reprehensible is how quick she was to jump to conclusions and self-righteously insist on being right when she really doesn't know Sarah or any of the group for that matter. I doubt they talked much in the little bit of time they had in the pin, despite literally sleeping next to each other. Hell, I'm not even sure Sarah even knows Jane's name!
Oh Telltale, when will you learn?
Let it happen? It was over in like 5 seconds. And Sarah just had to call out to clem as she left to make her feel some bit of guilt.
I think you mixing things up here, but I stand by what I said.
And honestly, who cares? She's realizing her friend abandoned her to be slaughtered; I think she more than has the right if that's the case. Clementine feeling guilty is good because she mean she wishes things could've been different and isn't a sociopath.
Also, I'm admittedly making assumptions here because I only saw a video of someone leaving Sarah once, but I'm pretty sure she called Carlos instead.
Did I miss a detail? I thought it was pointedly shown that there were only two cans of food.
No, that's close to what Kenny claimed. Remember that Jane came out with three bags, with Bonnie even finding another one if she's still alive.
Granted, I'm not sure how much food was in each, but it had to be enough to last a while if they aren't pigs according to Edith.
I buy into the "he planned all along to hurt clem as soon as she shot his sister" theory. Frankly. Just look at his expression when that happens. He's got a dark side... when he's dealing with kids. Wimp.
To be fair, I got the sense isn't as smart as the glasses would have you believe. He's capable of linguistics, but he does some pretty dumb shit throughout the story if you pay attention.
However, I acknowledge he might've wanted to payback Clementine after a while. He just didn't plan on doing actually anything to her until things started getting complicated.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily saying it's badly written. It just freaks me out a bit.
Like I said, submissive. She accepts (or assumes) that Luke likes Jane better her, thinks she's prettier, etc
Don't really get why Luke's death hit her THAT hard, though. They weren't show interacting that much. I guess the implication is they were "dating" at Carver's camp? But Bonnie was too scared to go with them when they left.
Yeah, the whole idea almost comes outta nowhere, tbh. I mean there were vague hints supporting it retroactively, but it was never really overt or even concrete.
coulda fooled me.
no offense. I'm here a lot too.
Well, yeah, I don't have an official job, but I have other things I do online, around the house, and on the road. I just tend to post in bulk.
her fate? you mean the abandon Jane ending? well, that's still pain, just of the emotional kind.
More like some good ol eye for an eye karma. I thought that'd be obvious, but I guess I should've given a tense.
guhhhhhhh
i can't believe it, did you just admit you were partially wrong about Jane in some aspect?
I don't see really what they failed to get across here besides why Jane decided to start the fight in the first place.
Calm down, dude. I already said something in that vain before that.
I meant the idea of shilling Jane as this hyper-competent badass to the point that her doing so poorly against Kenny felt contrived.
or maybe her rugged beauty is on the screen and you're just sad she'll never be real. I think you might be secretly tsundere for Jane.
...What?
Well, that's an odd coincidence. Tell me about it?
Shooting Jane in the...whatever is at the appropriate height after she reveals she set everyone up and leaving her there. Simple as that, dude.
I know, it sounds harsh to me, too. but that's just cuz we've been conditioned to accept male genital attacks as okay for some reason.
Yeah, that's how it goes, unfortunately. Friggin Knoxville!
Fact is, the irony would be delicious, imagine Clem walking away with AJ, that grim determination on her face, While Jane fitfully struggles on the ground calling out to her. And then you see walkers appearing, starting to enclose on her... cut to next scene. Don't actually show her get ripped apart. That would ruin it.
That almost sounds narmy, to be honest. Which is fine, they definitely needed some of that in places.
That said, it wouldn't hurt to pull a Starved for Help as the walkers get on her. Mm, now THAT's good Karma!
even if you think that's too cruel, the regular "leave jane" option still needs an upgrade. It's like 4 times shorter than the kenny version (Easy to tell because of how many times the music loops,) and telltale expects us to believe that Jane went to all this fucking trouble but sits back like a rejected puppy as clem leaves? Yeah, no fucking way is that realistic. The scene is literally like 30 seconds long, at most. It's crappy stuff like that disproves there being some sort of Jane bias by the writers, in my opinion.
I would at least have her start to follow, like "clem wait, we can talk about this_" and have clem whirl around pointing her gun at her with one hand and AJ in the other. That would stop Jane in a freezed pose of shock. Would work really well. Not sure if Clem should say something or just turn and walk away again, but yeah. Think that would massively improve the scene
Yeah, that is odd. I mean, I know they were trying to push her as this stoic loner througout, but she still was supposed to be growing out of that and after all the shit she pulled to have Clementine to herself, for her to just vaguely take the opposite is off.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the bias was on Petty, Sharpe(?), and possibly Shorette's head, plus some executives because corporation are evil. Nick Breckon was gone for two episodes and I'm pretty sure the Wellington stuff was adapted from what he planned originally.
>Wrong episodes, smarty pants. I mean how she tells Clementine to abandon the group, tries get Sarah killed, pressures Clementine into ro… morebbing Arvo, and distracts Luke when he was supposed to be on watch.
Wrong my ass. She was pretty much right, since half the group abandons them and she ends up getting shot. She doesn't *try* to get Sarah killed, she doesn't want Sarah to get other people killed. Literally the exact opposite. Well, the robbing is true, I'll give you that, but she has a good point in that arvo hiding the medicine made no sense and he might have just been a junkie.
And as for fucking Luke, again, Luke is a big boy and he made a choice too.
>That is the obvious solution, yes. No one(mainly the biased developers) thought to have her help Kenny inside and Bonnie simply told her to stay out everyone's way, which she was doing.
they also didn't think to have either rebecca or kenny notice she was dead. Now if… [view original content]
Since you're on the topic, there was also an alternate symbolic meaning mentioned for the moth in one of TWD livestreams Telltale did a while back, as well-- the moth is camouflaged to blend in with the trees, in order to hide/escape from predators. And what do you end up doing at the end of the episode? Camouflaging yourselves to blend in with the zombies, to escape from Carver's camp.
Actually, to take it even further, Clementine tries to touch the moth, effectively blowing its cover and making it fly away. And what else happens at the end of episode 3? Your cover gets blown, and everyone starts panicking and running.
Going to mention one of my favorite threads from back in the day. It's from 2014 so many people may not have seen it.
"Okay, I think i… moret's significant how episode 3 starts off with Clementine looking at the moth on the tree. I looked it up and some of the symbolic meanings for the moth are:
Vulnerability
Determination
Concealment
Attraction
Subtlety
Intuition
Faith
All of these are traits that can describe Clementine. Clementine is the moth.
Now, regarding Kenny and Luke, if you look at their name meanings, Kenny's name meaning is "handsome; fire born, & born of fire." Luke's meaning is "light."
Moths are attracted to light. They find the light in the darkness. Kenny and Luke are the sources of light in The Walking Dead, but Kenny is like fire. and you know that saying, "Like a moth attracted to a flame" or something like that, meaning that the moth goes to the flame only to burn and die.
Now, before the Kenny fa… [view original content]
Well, she was robbing Clementine. Really, I don't have a lot of sympathy for her. Bandits/thieves in general are something I despise. Clem.... well, I just feel that whole scene was stupid for a number of reasons which we talked about in another Thread.
Omid was also right behind her when the door startled her, so of course her reflex would be to protect herself, even if she didn't mean to actually shoot anyone.
Apparently, you can get Clem to tell David he was right for kicking her out and taking AJ away.
I dunno if it was because of what I said at the helicopter (he was scared) when Clem ask why David gave him away or that and I've been fairly pro-David this game.
I was expecting a "I forgive you" somewhere, but that kind of took me by surprize.
If it helps, I have a "Bold" Clementine and playing off a "stuck with Kenny" Season 2.
Apparently, you can get Clem to tell David he was right for kicking her out and taking AJ away.
I dunno if it was because of what I said … moreat the helicopter (he was scared) when Clem ask why David gave him away or that and I've been fairly pro-David this game.
I was expecting a "I forgive you" somewhere, but that kind of took me by surprize.
If it helps, I have a "Bold" Clementine and playing off a "stuck with Kenny" Season 2.
That makes sense. She said something about "someone did something like that for me once" right before saying David was right. I wasn't entirely sure if she was referring to David or Kenny/Lee. I think she was talking about David due to the context.
Her dialogue changes depending on what ending you get In S2.
I got the Wellington ending. Clementine didn't forgive David and she was still pissed at him.
I think the Kenny one has her forgiving him. I don't know about the rest.
I always reread my own comment first for context and man are there some blatant typos!
That's okay, I tend to forget entire words.
And what happened to your font, man?
I'm special. I somehow typed a word that triggered the system to tell me that it needed to be approved by a moderator and now it says that I've had the word in my post censored.
Look, the point she should've handled all of that much better than she did, being an "expert survivalist" and all. But instead, she ended up ensuring the destruction of the group; her coming back just meant she got to see all of it happen with one change.
what a load of bologna, bonnie and mike were willing to leave clem with no supplies with a guy they considered to be dangerous. they were not team-mate material to begin with, that's the whole point. that's beside the whole "one will always tell the other to just leave her bleeding on the ground" thing. your hatred of jane is irrational.
Ya don't say. It takes two to tango after all, but she's the one who asked to dance. Because "feminism," I guess.
I took it to be that she was trying to cheer him up a bit after the sarah debacle. She's not the greatest socially.
sarah's death
yep the second one is pure garbage, and the first death scene is just garbage with a smell you can take slightly more
Cause people love to victim blame?
I thought people just loved a victim, period.
I guess that's a fair point?
Eh, I thought it was mildly interesting. Just another thing that makes me wish Nick got treated with proper respect by the writers.
I guess I know where the censuring came in. But true dat.
I guess me calling characters cunts and retards was okay though.
Though to me, Lee's death was him refusing to die before he made sure she was safe and able to survive without him.
Yeah, but they explicitly say in the recap and in other places, I mean they paint this picture like Lee rampaged across savannah looking for clem and got bit in the process. It's not what happened at all.
Molly, Kenny, and "jesus."
Molly, yep. Well I feel like tone is a major issue in episode 4 in general, I've probably been a little unfair on her in the past. Jesus is really ridiculous but almost works as a relief to how dark things can get. Kenny? How's he unrealistic?
No, I'm pretty sure it was Spanish. Unless I'm forgetting something
They have dialogue recorded in english. at 3:06 that's Natasha speaking.
Come on, how can you not know this? And the "hilarious" sex joke Jane tells about sheep? That's a good one.
True. It's why I was kinda hoping at least Tavia and Becca showed up in "Season 3". Maybe Russell and Shel too.
Tavia was a false-ass bitch. (if fanfiction is to be believed) Otherwise, I don't know if they changed writers or what, but she seemed drastically different from 400 days to episode 3.
I think keeping a limited number is still for the best, cause otherwise no one will get much development or screentime without Cast Herding.
Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm no writer. Maybe it is a bad idea. I dunno.
I know that's kinda what he ended up being and Jane was basically there to indirectly make him realize it. Jane coming back may or may not have meant he got to come to terms with it, at least.
i'm not really sure how she helped him come to terms with it, but good that you can see that.
Interviews with GameInformer and Christine Lakin herself mentions that Jane's character was reworked considerably inbetween episodes in part due to how fans took a liking to her and Mike. And looking back, it's actually very noticeable.
I should see these interviews. But of course they will always be vague and not really reveal too much.
They really changed things in response to fans? That's usually not a good idea or a good sign. And I don't even remember anyone talking much about Jane or Mike when episode 3 dropped, so... uh?
Yeah, she was supposed to be more of a hardass who, while acknowledging Clementine's skill, still found her annoying at times due to having little patience for things she deems stupid.
Yeah, well either way, the way she suddenly starts prattling on to Clem in episode 4 is kinda awkward and inconsistent with her portrayal in the previous episode. And she seems to think Clem is perfect and completely amazing.
It's kinda funny though, rewrites changing the context of earlier scenes. A little mind boggling, too.
Psychologically issues will fuck with you, man. Aint' dat right, Jane?
do they make you deaf to the sound of like twenty zombies banging on the door?
I'm only so hard on her because she was so hard on everyone else and the writers/executives were clearly really cocky with her(and Kenny) and thus didn't bother to have her properly answer for it.
JaneWasRight
And Reggie might have lived a teeny bit longer, at least. But the guy was a bit of a clod. He didn't bother checking on the girls until much later, maybe he didn't think Carver would actually go so far as to kill him?
And as I said before, Carver is even worse for not only encouraging that mindset, but also for dealing out punishment at all when he was only supposed to be checking on how they were coming along.
He said the time was up.
Sarah getting Reggie killed. Again, not to beat a dead horse's atoms here, but part of what made Jane's behavior so reprehensible is how quick she was to jump to conclusions and self-righteously insist on being right when she really doesn't know Sarah or any of the group for that matter. I doubt they talked much in the little bit of time they had in the pin, despite literally sleeping next to each other. Hell, I'm not even sure Sarah even knows Jane's name! Oh Telltale, when will you learn?
Dude. Come on. They spell it out that Sarah reminds Jane of what she already experienced with Jaime.
I suppose you could look at it like Clem reminded her of Jaime pre-apoc and Sarah post-apoc. Yeah, that makes sense to me.
she has the right
not after putting everyone else in danger.
but now this is all gettin real semantical and overly-analytical for my tastes.
Did I miss a detail? I thought it was pointedly shown that there were only two cans of food.
No, that's close to what Kenny claimed. Remember that Jane came out with three bags, with Bonnie even finding another one if she's still alive.
Granted, I'm not sure how much food was in each, but it had to be enough to last a while if they aren't pigs according to Edith.
Honestly having trouble remembering it. And them being wellington bags was something I never pieced together. Ugh.
he does some pretty dumb shit throughout the story if you pay attention.
yeah cuz pissing off the guy that tried to shoot you is so subtly stupid
Yeah, I'm not necessarily saying it's badly written. It just freaks me out a bit.
Like I said, submissive. She accepts (or assumes) that Luke likes Jane better her, thinks she's prettier, etc
Don't really get why Luke's death hit her THAT hard, though. They weren't show interacting that much. I guess the implication is they were "dating" at Carver's camp? But Bonnie was too scared to go with them when they left.
comes outta nowhere
no kidding, and I know plenty of other people were confused why Luke was apologizing to Bonnie in episode 5. Implying he felt like he "cheated" on her.
It's so bizarre how subtle they decided to make that dynamic. But I guess season 2 couldn't have ended with a love triangle between jane, luke and bonnie.
Well, yeah, I don't have an official job, but I have other things I do online, around the house, and on the road. I just tend to post in bulk.
A man after my own heart.
her fate? you mean the abandon Jane ending? well, that's still pain, just of the emotional kind.
More like some good ol eye for an eye karma. I thought that'd be obvious, but I guess I should've given a tense.
What? Talk shit, get hit type of thing? Kenny did throw the first punch, remember.
And I honestly wonder what would have happened if Jane did back down and acted submissive to Kenny when he came back into the rest stop? Would he have still attacked her again after the initial swing?
Also, he almost seems like he was calming down until she called him a son of a bitch. But that's probably just the fault of the animators.
Kenny goes on about muh family and muh values, you'd think he would have a problem with violence against women.
Calm down, dude. I already said something in that vain before that.
I meant the idea of shilling Jane as this hyper-competent badass to the point that her doing so poorly against Kenny felt contrived.
...What?
You have a secret crush on Jane and it makes you uncomfortable so you express it by hating on her. You know, classic puppy love.
Shooting Jane in the...whatever is at the appropriate height after she reveals she set everyone up and leaving her there. Simple as that, dude.
So in other words you were looking at Jane's crotch.
MM-hmm.
That lends credence to my previous post.
Yeah, that's how it goes, unfortunately. Friggin Knoxville!
I still cringe when I remember what he said his penis was like nowadays.
Fact is, the irony would be delicious, imagine Clem walking away with AJ, that grim determination on her face, While Jane fitfully struggles on the ground calling out to her. And then you see walkers appearing, starting to enclose on her... cut to next scene. Don't actually show her get ripped apart. That would ruin it.
That almost sounds narmy, to be honest. Which is fine, they definitely needed some of that in places.
That said, it wouldn't hurt to pull a Starved for Help as the walkers get on her. Mm, now THAT's good Karma!
even if you think that's too cruel, the regular "leave jane" option still needs an upgrade. It's like 4 times shorter than the kenny version (Easy to tell because of how many times the music loops,) and telltale expects us to believe that Jane went to all this fucking trouble but sits back like a rejected puppy as clem leaves? Yeah, no fucking way is that realistic. The scene is literally like 30 seconds long, at most. It's crappy stuff like that disproves there being some sort of Jane bias by the writers, in my opinion.
I would at least have her start to follow, like "clem wait, we can talk about this_" and have clem whirl around pointing her gun at her with one hand and AJ in the other. That would stop Jane in a freezed pose of shock. Would work really well. Not sure if Clem should say something or just turn and walk away again, but yeah. Think that would massively improve the scene
Yeah, that is odd. I mean, I know they were trying to push her as this stoic loner througout, but she still was supposed to be growing out of that and after all the shit she pulled to have Clementine to herself, for her to just vaguely take the opposite is off.
It's actually a neat arc. Jane tries to convince Clem she doesn't need anyone, but ends up breaking out of that mindset herself only for Clem to actually listen to her previous advice and go her own way. They swap positions, Clem becomes the badass stoic loner and Jane becomes the sad, needy/helpless child.
Jane's VA also did a great job. With her voice cracking as she calls out to Clem.
But at the end of the day, the scene is way too rushed, and it has almost no impact because it ends so abruptly.
Only to find she pushed her away. obsessed with doesn't need her. Or that she caused Clem to hate her in the process.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the bias was on Petty, Sharpe(?), and possibly Shorette's head, plus some executives because corporation are evil. Nick Breckon was gone for two episodes and I'm pretty sure the Wellington stuff was adapted from what he planned originally.
I don't know anything about this stuff. So I can't really weigh in. But you're right, executives are always evil.
I always reread my own comment first for context and man are there some blatant typos! And what happened to your font, man?
Wrong my a… moress. She was pretty much right, since half the group abandons them and she ends up getting shot. She doesn't try to get Sarah killed, she doesn't want Sarah to get other people killed. Literally the exact opposite. Well, the robbing is true, I'll give you that, but she has a good point in that arvo hiding the medicine made no sense and he might have just been a junkie.
Look, the point she should've handled all of that much better than she did, being an "expert survivalist" and all. But instead, she ended up ensuring the destruction of the group; her coming back just meant she got to see all of it happen with one change.
And as for fucking Luke, again, Luke is a big boy and he made a choice too.
Ya don't say. It takes two to tango after all, but she's the one who asked to dance. Becaus… [view original content]
Yes it depends on your ending. Only the wellington ending has her criticizing David. Jane and Kenny endings have her sympathizing David. Alone ending is kind of neutral? I guess. She says something like "We are all abandoned. I guess AJ is no different"
Apparently, you can get Clem to tell David he was right for kicking her out and taking AJ away.
I dunno if it was because of what I said … moreat the helicopter (he was scared) when Clem ask why David gave him away or that and I've been fairly pro-David this game.
I was expecting a "I forgive you" somewhere, but that kind of took me by surprize.
If it helps, I have a "Bold" Clementine and playing off a "stuck with Kenny" Season 2.
Oh man, I think my favorite variation on that scene is if only Ben stayed behind.
[Lee opens door]
[The boat is gone]
Ben: ["I tried" shrug]
Then Kenny follows it up with "WHAT ARE YOU DOING"
Comments
Whoa!
Another reason why Chloe Price is totally Clementine from an alternative universe.
Clem was directly aiming at Eli.
The blue on Hector's bite is actually a result of the lighting/rendering. Not sure what specifically causes it to look that way, but it's not supposed to be appearing blue.
Omid was also right behind her when the door startled her, so of course her reflex would be to protect herself, even if she didn't mean to actually shoot anyone.
Ya know, I never thought to refer to Michelle as being edgy, but whatever. This is a cool parallel anyway.
Don't pick up the handcuffs???
I don't see how she is edgy.
I always reread my own comment first for context and man are there some blatant typos! And what happened to your font, man?
Look, the point she should've handled all of that much better than she did, being an "expert survivalist" and all. But instead, she ended up ensuring the destruction of the group; her coming back just meant she got to see all of it happen with one change.
Ya don't say. It takes two to tango after all, but she's the one who asked to dance. Because "feminism," I guess.
And that's why Sarah's death sucks!
No but seriously, there is an assload of problems that her canon death causes to the story as a whole and the blatant OOC oversights are some of the worst. The developers admitting they wrote parts of the episode to reflect that they hated her didn't help put out the fire either.
Cause people love to victim blame?
I suppose. He can multitask, believe it or not.
I guess that's a fair point?
I guess I know where the censuring came in.
But true dat.
Though to me, Lee's death was him refusing to die before he made sure she was safe and able to survive without him.
Molly, Kenny, and "jesus."
No, I'm pretty sure it was Spanish. Unless I'm forgetting something
...Uh-huuuh....
True. It's why I was kinda hoping at least Tavia and Becca showed up in "Season 3". Maybe Russell and Shel too.
Speak the truth!
I think keeping a limited number is still for the best, cause otherwise no one will get much development or screentime without Cast Herding.
And I meant to say the games coding and what not, which could take up a lot of space on the hard drive.
I know that's kinda what he ended up being and Jane was basically there to indirectly make him realize it. Jane coming back may or may not have meant he got to come to terms with it, at least.
Interviews with GameInformer and Christine Lakin herself mentions that Jane's character was reworked considerably inbetween episodes in part due to how fans took a liking to her and Mike. And looking back, it's actually very noticeable.
Yeah, she was supposed to be more of a hardass who, while acknowledging Clementine's skill, still found her annoying at times due to having little patience for things she deems stupid.
I get the feeling the Jaime thing may have been added in later for the sake of making her "tragic," but the Molly comparison was seemingly something they themselves noticed beforehand, so who knows.
And Jane lets it happen. Sarah at no point asked Clementine to stay, probably because she wasn't aware of the danger they were in.
Psychologically issues will fuck with you, man. Aint' dat right, Jane?
That's one of the reasons people hate Jane, hilariously enough. Fuck!
I'm only so hard on her because she was so hard on everyone else and the writers/executives were clearly really cocky with her(and Kenny) and thus didn't bother to have her properly answer for it.
As he said, he was really desperate to stay on "Bill's" good side by getting his work done the best he could, so unfortunately, looking out for himself meant he wasn't doing the job he was actually given. Poor guy.
And as I said before, Carver is even worse for not only encouraging that mindset, but also for dealing out punishment at all when he was only supposed to be checking on how they were coming along.
Sarah getting Reggie killed.
Again, not to beat a dead horse's atoms here, but part of what made Jane's behavior so reprehensible is how quick she was to jump to conclusions and self-righteously insist on being right when she really doesn't know Sarah or any of the group for that matter. I doubt they talked much in the little bit of time they had in the pin, despite literally sleeping next to each other. Hell, I'm not even sure Sarah even knows Jane's name!
Oh Telltale, when will you learn?
I think you mixing things up here, but I stand by what I said.
And honestly, who cares? She's realizing her friend abandoned her to be slaughtered; I think she more than has the right if that's the case. Clementine feeling guilty is good because she mean she wishes things could've been different and isn't a sociopath.
Also, I'm admittedly making assumptions here because I only saw a video of someone leaving Sarah once, but I'm pretty sure she called Carlos instead.
No, that's close to what Kenny claimed. Remember that Jane came out with three bags, with Bonnie even finding another one if she's still alive.
Granted, I'm not sure how much food was in each, but it had to be enough to last a while if they aren't pigs according to Edith.
To be fair, I got the sense isn't as smart as the glasses would have you believe. He's capable of linguistics, but he does some pretty dumb shit throughout the story if you pay attention.
However, I acknowledge he might've wanted to payback Clementine after a while. He just didn't plan on doing actually anything to her until things started getting complicated.
Yeah, the whole idea almost comes outta nowhere, tbh. I mean there were vague hints supporting it retroactively, but it was never really overt or even concrete.
Well, yeah, I don't have an official job, but I have other things I do online, around the house, and on the road. I just tend to post in bulk.
More like some good ol eye for an eye karma. I thought that'd be obvious, but I guess I should've given a tense.
Calm down, dude. I already said something in that vain before that.
I meant the idea of shilling Jane as this hyper-competent badass to the point that her doing so poorly against Kenny felt contrived.
...What?
Shooting Jane in the...whatever is at the appropriate height after she reveals she set everyone up and leaving her there. Simple as that, dude.
Yeah, that's how it goes, unfortunately. Friggin Knoxville!
That almost sounds narmy, to be honest.
Which is fine, they definitely needed some of that in places.
That said, it wouldn't hurt to pull a Starved for Help as the walkers get on her. Mm, now THAT's good Karma!
Yeah, that is odd. I mean, I know they were trying to push her as this stoic loner througout, but she still was supposed to be growing out of that and after all the shit she pulled to have Clementine to herself, for her to just vaguely take the opposite is off.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the bias was on Petty, Sharpe(?), and possibly Shorette's head, plus some executives because corporation are evil. Nick Breckon was gone for two episodes and I'm pretty sure the Wellington stuff was adapted from what he planned originally.
Damn, Ben is such a good dude
Poor guy
Since you're on the topic, there was also an alternate symbolic meaning mentioned for the moth in one of TWD livestreams Telltale did a while back, as well-- the moth is camouflaged to blend in with the trees, in order to hide/escape from predators. And what do you end up doing at the end of the episode? Camouflaging yourselves to blend in with the zombies, to escape from Carver's camp.
Actually, to take it even further, Clementine tries to touch the moth, effectively blowing its cover and making it fly away. And what else happens at the end of episode 3? Your cover gets blown, and everyone starts panicking and running.
At least take him to dinner first.
Hur hur hur.
What? He's a destructive asshole.
Well, she was robbing Clementine. Really, I don't have a lot of sympathy for her. Bandits/thieves in general are something I despise. Clem.... well, I just feel that whole scene was stupid for a number of reasons which we talked about in another Thread.
Apparently, you can get Clem to tell David he was right for kicking her out and taking AJ away.
I dunno if it was because of what I said at the helicopter (he was scared) when Clem ask why David gave him away or that and I've been fairly pro-David this game.
I was expecting a "I forgive you" somewhere, but that kind of took me by surprize.
If it helps, I have a "Bold" Clementine and playing off a "stuck with Kenny" Season 2.
Her dialogue changes depending on what ending you get In S2.
I got the Wellington ending. Clementine didn't forgive David and she was still pissed at him.
I think the Kenny one has her forgiving him. I don't know about the rest.
That makes sense. She said something about "someone did something like that for me once" right before saying David was right. I wasn't entirely sure if she was referring to David or Kenny/Lee. I think she was talking about David due to the context.
Oh, I thought that was mandatory :x
I know, honey, I know.
The marsh house is a real hotel you can actually visit
Cue people signing in and giving bad reviews because "the neighbor kept his wife's head in a bag".
:smile_cat:
I don't get it.
I tried doing the cat ones, too, but apparently we can't.
That's okay, I tend to forget entire words.
I'm special. I somehow typed a word that triggered the system to tell me that it needed to be approved by a moderator and now it says that I've had the word in my post censored.
what a load of bologna, bonnie and mike were willing to leave clem with no supplies with a guy they considered to be dangerous. they were not team-mate material to begin with, that's the whole point. that's beside the whole "one will always tell the other to just leave her bleeding on the ground" thing. your hatred of jane is irrational.
I took it to be that she was trying to cheer him up a bit after the sarah debacle. She's not the greatest socially.
yep the second one is pure garbage, and the first death scene is just garbage with a smell you can take slightly more
I thought people just loved a victim, period.
Eh, I thought it was mildly interesting. Just another thing that makes me wish Nick got treated with proper respect by the writers.
I guess me calling characters cunts and retards was okay though.
Yeah, but they explicitly say in the recap and in other places, I mean they paint this picture like Lee rampaged across savannah looking for clem and got bit in the process. It's not what happened at all.
Molly, yep. Well I feel like tone is a major issue in episode 4 in general, I've probably been a little unfair on her in the past. Jesus is really ridiculous but almost works as a relief to how dark things can get. Kenny? How's he unrealistic?
They have dialogue recorded in english.
at 3:06 that's Natasha speaking.
Come on, how can you not know this? And the "hilarious" sex joke Jane tells about sheep? That's a good one.
Tavia was a false-ass bitch. (if fanfiction is to be believed) Otherwise, I don't know if they changed writers or what, but she seemed drastically different from 400 days to episode 3.
Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm no writer. Maybe it is a bad idea. I dunno.
i'm not really sure how she helped him come to terms with it, but good that you can see that.
I should see these interviews. But of course they will always be vague and not really reveal too much.
They really changed things in response to fans? That's usually not a good idea or a good sign. And I don't even remember anyone talking much about Jane or Mike when episode 3 dropped, so... uh?
Yeah, well either way, the way she suddenly starts prattling on to Clem in episode 4 is kinda awkward and inconsistent with her portrayal in the previous episode. And she seems to think Clem is perfect and completely amazing.
It's kinda funny though, rewrites changing the context of earlier scenes. A little mind boggling, too.
do they make you deaf to the sound of like twenty zombies banging on the door?
JaneWasRight
And Reggie might have lived a teeny bit longer, at least. But the guy was a bit of a clod. He didn't bother checking on the girls until much later, maybe he didn't think Carver would actually go so far as to kill him?
He said the time was up.
Dude. Come on. They spell it out that Sarah reminds Jane of what she already experienced with Jaime.
I suppose you could look at it like Clem reminded her of Jaime pre-apoc and Sarah post-apoc. Yeah, that makes sense to me.
not after putting everyone else in danger.
but now this is all gettin real semantical and overly-analytical for my tastes.
Did I miss a detail? I thought it was pointedly shown that there were only two cans of food.
Granted, I'm not sure how much food was in each, but it had to be enough to last a while if they aren't pigs according to Edith.
Honestly having trouble remembering it. And them being wellington bags was something I never pieced together. Ugh.
yeah cuz pissing off the guy that tried to shoot you is so subtly stupid
Yeah, I'm not necessarily saying it's badly written. It just freaks me out a bit.
Like I said, submissive. She accepts (or assumes) that Luke likes Jane better her, thinks she's prettier, etc
Don't really get why Luke's death hit her THAT hard, though. They weren't show interacting that much. I guess the implication is they were "dating" at Carver's camp? But Bonnie was too scared to go with them when they left.
no kidding, and I know plenty of other people were confused why Luke was apologizing to Bonnie in episode 5. Implying he felt like he "cheated" on her.
It's so bizarre how subtle they decided to make that dynamic. But I guess season 2 couldn't have ended with a love triangle between jane, luke and bonnie.
A man after my own heart.
her fate? you mean the abandon Jane ending? well, that's still pain, just of the emotional kind.
What? Talk shit, get hit type of thing? Kenny did throw the first punch, remember.
And I honestly wonder what would have happened if Jane did back down and acted submissive to Kenny when he came back into the rest stop? Would he have still attacked her again after the initial swing?
Also, he almost seems like he was calming down until she called him a son of a bitch. But that's probably just the fault of the animators.
Kenny goes on about muh family and muh values, you'd think he would have a problem with violence against women.
Calm down, dude. I already said something in that vain before that.
I meant the idea of shilling Jane as this hyper-competent badass to the point that her doing so poorly against Kenny felt contrived.
You have a secret crush on Jane and it makes you uncomfortable so you express it by hating on her. You know, classic puppy love.
So in other words you were looking at Jane's crotch.
MM-hmm.
That lends credence to my previous post.
I still cringe when I remember what he said his penis was like nowadays.
Fact is, the irony would be delicious, imagine Clem walking away with AJ, that grim determination on her face, While Jane fitfully struggles on the ground calling out to her. And then you see walkers appearing, starting to enclose on her... cut to next scene. Don't actually show her get ripped apart. That would ruin it.
That almost sounds narmy, to be honest. Which is fine, they definitely needed some of that in places.
That said, it wouldn't hurt to pull a Starved for Help as the walkers get on her. Mm, now THAT's good Karma!
even if you think that's too cruel, the regular "leave jane" option still needs an upgrade. It's like 4 times shorter than the kenny version (Easy to tell because of how many times the music loops,) and telltale expects us to believe that Jane went to all this fucking trouble but sits back like a rejected puppy as clem leaves? Yeah, no fucking way is that realistic. The scene is literally like 30 seconds long, at most. It's crappy stuff like that disproves there being some sort of Jane bias by the writers, in my opinion.
I would at least have her start to follow, like "clem wait, we can talk about this_" and have clem whirl around pointing her gun at her with one hand and AJ in the other. That would stop Jane in a freezed pose of shock. Would work really well. Not sure if Clem should say something or just turn and walk away again, but yeah. Think that would massively improve the scene
It's actually a neat arc. Jane tries to convince Clem she doesn't need anyone, but ends up breaking out of that mindset herself only for Clem to actually listen to her previous advice and go her own way. They swap positions, Clem becomes the badass stoic loner and Jane becomes the sad, needy/helpless child.
Jane's VA also did a great job. With her voice cracking as she calls out to Clem.
But at the end of the day, the scene is way too rushed, and it has almost no impact because it ends so abruptly.
Only to find she pushed her away. obsessed with doesn't need her. Or that she caused Clem to hate her in the process.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the bias was on Petty, Sharpe(?), and possibly Shorette's head, plus some executives because corporation are evil. Nick Breckon was gone for two episodes and I'm pretty sure the Wellington stuff was adapted from what he planned originally.
I don't know anything about this stuff. So I can't really weigh in. But you're right, executives are always evil.
This is the perfect response to that comment.
I really like seeing these videos. The nuance to the characters and pretty much everything in the first season was really amazing,
Ben is so tragic here, he's so much better developed here than all the characters of ANF combined.
If you're kind to Lilly/Larry every opportunity and try to save Larry, he will actually call Lee his trueborn son after his head is smashed.
Yeah I remember that.
Okay last one with Christa and Omid
Yes it depends on your ending. Only the wellington ending has her criticizing David. Jane and Kenny endings have her sympathizing David. Alone ending is kind of neutral? I guess. She says something like "We are all abandoned. I guess AJ is no different"
Unfortunately, I'm more than inclined to agree.
Is there any chance you can do all of the dialogues and outcomes when you return and the boat is stolen?
...what? video?
I want to see that with my own eyes. Post the video.
It's super rare so I don't think there's a video if it.
Yeah it depends on at least 14 determinant factors including actions and dialogues, it's one of the rarest scenes in the game
Does it have the room where Stranger was located?
Oh man, I think my favorite variation on that scene is if only Ben stayed behind.
[Lee opens door]
[The boat is gone]
Ben: ["I tried" shrug]
Then Kenny follows it up with "WHAT ARE YOU DOING"
What. That can actually happen? Oh my Lord I can't believe Kenny didn't kill right then and there.