The Last of Us Discussion Thread

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  • Although, that said one of the game's main weaknesses are Abby's characters. They're just not that good. I appreciate the complexity in characters like Owen, but he's more of an exception. Mel sucks and is really boring, Manny didn't click for me, Isaac is too confusing (I don't mind characters being mysterious and un-explored, but the story isn't strong with him). People say they want an all-new cast of characters, well, this is what we got. Lev is cool though. And Abby's story would work much better with better characters, simply put.

    Poogers555 posted: »

    (The love triangle was there because Abby and Owen obviously wanted to be with each other but Abby was still so caught up on trying to find

  • So I did some mild digging and found out about a few things that changed during development

    • Abby was originally slimmer with curly black hair.
    • There were originally five days instead of just three, but that was cut because even they had to realize how long the game was gonna be.
    • Abby was supposed to infiltrate Jackson the night of the dance and would've hung out with Joel for a bit, keeping her identity a secret until she could get him where she wanted him.
    • Joel was gonna have his arm sliced off with a machete instead of taking a shotgun to the knee.
    • Joel was supposed to call Ellie Sarah in his delirium, but Troy Baker thought that not saying anything before being finished off would be better.
    • Jordan apparently didn't knock out Ellie originally, as she was gonna be found by the others hugging Joel's corpse.
    • There was a flashback showing that Isaac was an Ex-Firefly who would take Abby under his wing, which is why he values her so much and hesitates to kill her.
    • There was gonna be more time spent fleshing out the Seraphites.
    • Ellie was supposed to go to the Seraphite's Island as well.
    • There was an entire sequence where Ellie massacres a boar she was hunting due to her PTSD associating it's squeals with Joel that was removed at the last minute.
    • Maria was the one who came to the farmhouse with news about Abby and Lev, which would explain why they seemingly shoot Tommy in the back of the head only for him to turn up fine.
    • Ellie was gonna to kill Abby albeit with the same general feeling of emptiness for over half of production
    • The ending originally had Ellie take one of the JJ's leftover toys with her, but this was cut to leave things ambiguous.

    @dojo32161 Which part? The nightmare occurs twice, and the one with her opening the door and her Dad's there smiling happens literally right before Seattle Day 3.

    @AChicken Every time Abby goes to sleep (or just before we see her wake up in a cutscene) we see her have a nightmare, and it's different each time.

    The first time is her reliving the death of her father -- or at least finding his corpse (just before Manny wakes her up to get ready for Day 1) the next time she has a nightmare, she sees Lev and Yara hung to their deaths like she almost was (just after her impulsive sex night with Owen) and finally, just before Day 3, she enters the nightmarish surgery room seeing her dad alive and well, bathed in light, probably accepting his death as she's found a new family to fill the hole in her heart (the two ex-Seraphites).

    @IronWoodLover I was gonna answer but others already did it for me pretty well :). Here are some timestamps:

    1st Abby nightmare: 27:19
    2nd Abby nightmare: 5:53:10
    3rd Abby nightmare: 7:47:00
    Abby's dream: 8:42:30 - It's worth noticing this is the only time the red alarms aren't blasting it and Abby doesn't rush toward the surgery room, instead it's all silent and she calmly walks there.

    Oh yeah, I do remember wondering why the hell she was going down that hallway as a 15 year old again.

    This arc is very subtle and honestly easy to overlook (probably because the huge focus on the love triangle seriously overshadows it tbh), the nightmares are bound to stick way more to the memory too considering how brief and silent the final dream is.

    No kiddin. It's never really dwelled on or communicated and they're so spaced out that they're easy to forget(or not there at all with the first two stamps.)

    Don't know about the triangle, although that could just be me not really caring.

    @AronDracula Plus, the love triangle adds nothing to the story. What was the point of Mel being Owen's girlfriend (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Owen broke up with her as far as I can remember) if she is not gonna do anything about what he and Abby have been up to anyway?

    She does want nothing to do with Abby when she finds out and warns her not to go with Owen as well as the Apostates, but yeah.
    Honestly, the better question is why is that love triangle even in the game? It's barely even there even compared to Mel herself and just feels like unneeded carry over of Abby's history with Owen as well as a overly personal(albeit justified) reason for Mel to call her out. Eh, it kinda brings me back to my first impression of Owen compared to...the Well balanced content we ended up with.

    @AChicken Yeah, that plot thread really didnt go anywhere. I'm sure that whole love triangle was to show how Owen's a pretty big dick all things considered, but it's a shame he didn't seem to get retribution or a confrontation from Mel to settle it. (Though that would be pretty cliché and this game doesn't need any more of them.)

    Uh, was it?

    @Poogers555 (The love triangle was there because Abby and Owen obviously wanted to be with each other but Abby was still so caught up on trying to find Joel for years they never actually got together because she kept letting it get in the way. Point being is they easily could have been happy together had Abby not chosen her path. And in choosing that path it lead to Owen dying. The triangle part is to give a reason for why Owen and Abby can't "really" be together even after Abby kills Joel and to emphasize she ruined what she really wanted for a selfish cause.)

    I suppose that's true?
    Thing is, why exactly did it need to be a triangle? Why couldn't it just be Owen was capable of moving on, end of story?

    @Ghetsis Although, that said one of the game's main weaknesses are Abby's characters. They're just not that good. I appreciate the complexity in characters like Owen, but he's more of an exception.

    Yeah, with the exception of Lev and to an extent Owen, a lot of her supporting cast just didn't do much. And that lines up with the biggest general issue with Abby's scenario being that there's little cohesion amongst itself, let alone with Ellie's worse but at least straightforward story.

    Mel sucks

    Oh?

    Isaac is too confusing (I don't mind characters being mysterious and un-explored, but the story isn't strong with him).

    He's literally in just two scenes: his ominous introduction and his protracted death. He's arguably the closest thing the game has to a singular villain alongside the quickly killed off Emily, but they do so little with him and honestly make the Seraphites seem worse that you're left wondering what was the point.

  • Yeah I'd say thats fair as I do agree I feel the Abby side of the story does suffer the most as a lot of the characters feel a bit half baked as well as the general direction of the story with going to the Scar Island not really feeling that important to what the rest of the game has been about.

    Ghetsis posted: »

    Although, that said one of the game's main weaknesses are Abby's characters. They're just not that good. I appreciate the complexity in char

  • If Owen just moved on Abby wouldnt want to help Lev and Yara. She does it after Owen's story about the Scar he didnt want to kill. If Owen moved on by now then Abby probably wouldnt have bothered. So they need the 2 characters to still be in that "will they wont they" limbo but need something to prevent them from doing that, that being Mel.

    DabigRG posted: »

    So I did some mild digging and found out about a few things that changed during development * Abby was originally slimmer with curly bl

  • I was more referring to his take on their previous relationship.
    Realistically speaking, Abby doesn't need to secretly wanna get back with Owen to hear his story and then find herself sympathizing more when she ends up allying with the siblings who saved her life. And Owen sure as hell doesn't need to still pork Abby for there to be tension among the three--the drama with Mel could've just been a culmination of Abby's general assholery throughout much of their backstory making her skeptical and the fact that Abby & Owen had such a long history is both the glue that connects them while also causing conflicts of interest.

    Poogers555 posted: »

    If Owen just moved on Abby wouldnt want to help Lev and Yara. She does it after Owen's story about the Scar he didnt want to kill. If Owen m

  • It's funny tho, Owen is so dumb he thought he could have a harem on the boat lol

  • Serves him right. Fucking cuck

    Ghetsis posted: »

    It's funny tho, Owen is so dumb he thought he could have a harem on the boat lol

  • Did he?
    Uh, doesn't a harem imply multiple chicks?

    Ghetsis posted: »

    It's funny tho, Owen is so dumb he thought he could have a harem on the boat lol

  • Here it is, finally. This video took me 2 weeks to make. It was supposed to be uploaded earlier but I got my very first copyright claim because I used a specific sad music meme and replaced it with something else.

  • TLOU2 just got added trophies for Grounded Difficulty and Permadeath Mode. An update has yet to come to add these.

  • edited August 2020

    Ah, and the update is soon to be live in 2 days..

    Permadeath sounds like it could be challenging and nicely forgiving depending on how you play it.

    we’re also introducing a brand new Permadeath mode***. With this custom mode enabled, there are no second chances — you must complete the entire game without dying or start over from the beginning. However, if taking on the whole game is too daunting, you can choose to enable Permadeath mode with checkpoints on a per-chapter or per-act basis. In other words, if you die at the end of Day One, you’ll have to play the entire day over again.

    Anyone fond of the gameplay modifiers of Uncharted should be pleased that they're being added to Part II. (I am, since I was wondering if they thought this game was too serious for some of those fun features.)

    We’re also debuting new unlockable gameplay modifiers, like One Shot or Touch of Death that enable one-hit kills or Infinite Ammo, Infinite Crafting, or Infinite Listen Mode Range to add a new twist to gameplay:

    Mirror World
    Mirror on Death
    Slow Motion
    Bullet Speed mode
    Infinite Ammo
    Infinite Crafting
    Infinite Melee Durability
    Infinite Listen mode Range
    One Shot
    Touch of Death
    8-bit Audio
    4-bit Audio
    Helium Audio
    Xenon Audio

  • What the heck is 4-bit?

  • I think that setting makes audio sound digital, like they're robots or something like that.

    Xenon I remember from Uncharted makes audio warble from high to low, again and again. I hope these settings affect the infected.
    I wanna hear a Clicker on helium.

    DabigRG posted: »

    What the heck is 4-bit?

  • Huh. I know 8bit is like pixel art, so I had to ask what kinda mess they're getting into.

    I wanna hear a Clicker on helium

    I bet the dogs in your area don't.

    AChicken posted: »

    I think that setting makes audio sound digital, like they're robots or something like that. Xenon I remember from Uncharted makes audio w

  • It's great that they're not saving this stuff for the PS5. Now all we need is 4k/60fps.

  • I still can't believe that they got almost everything right about this game except for the story.

  • A few general questions for their own sake:
    Is it appropriate to say that the Last of Us 2 is a story where "[nearly] everyone sucks?"

    Beatdown for Joel's killing aside, would you classify Abby is a Karma Houdini or not?

    What do you think of the way Jesse is treated throughout the story?

    How could [X] have been better handled?

  • edited August 2020

    Is it appropriate to say that the Last of Us 2 is a story where "[nearly] everyone sucks?"

    I would say it's a game full of potential character arcs but wasted for cheap drama.

    Beatdown for Joel's killing aside, would you classify Abby is a Karma Houdini or not?

    For me, yes. Abby is barely affected by the death of her friends, she didn't seem to suffer from being tortured by Rattlers and she doesn't say anything after Ellie spares her life, she just walks away.

    What do you think of the way Jesse is treated throughout the story?

    Out of all the wasted characters, Jesse takes the crown for being the worst of the bunch. He is not a bad character but the most unnecessary of the whole game. As much as I hate how Joel is handled in this story, Jesse is the one that pisses me off the most. He served no major purposes to the story whatsoever or at least in Seattle. Take him out of those chapters and nothing would have changed, except being shorter, no AI partner and no car chase sequence. Like seriously, what did he do in Seattle? We learn a lot about his character but in the end, he dies by a cheap shot and it doesn't even matter. He is only mentioned once in the epilogue and we don't get to hear Dina's reaction to his death.

    How could [X] have been better handled?

    Abby should have been the one who saves Joel instead of vice-versa. That would have given Joel a good reason to follow her to the mansion. Also, instead of Joel dying in the first 2 hours of game, have him die in the middle of the game by putting the flashbacks of him and Ellie in chronological order.

    DabigRG posted: »

    A few general questions for their own sake: Is it appropriate to say that the Last of Us 2 is a story where "[nearly] everyone sucks?" B

  • Also, instead of Joel dying in the first 2 hours of game, have him die in the middle of the game by putting the flashbacks of him and Ellie in chronological order.

    Joel dying at the start of the game is possibly the biggest sin this game commits in my opinion. Because it ends up feeling cheap and “unsatisfying” (as in, set up badly, not that it would ever be satisfying to see him dying). If they had spent some more time establishing how things are, and just had more sections like the Joel and Ellie flashbacks before going into the main plot, the death would have felt less cheap.

    I knew going in that they would likely kill Joel, but I could not have foreseen it happening so early because I think its badly done that way

    AronDracula posted: »

    Is it appropriate to say that the Last of Us 2 is a story where "[nearly] everyone sucks?" I would say it's a game full of potential

  • You wanna know something kinda wacked: that original idea for how Abby meets Joel just invokes the idea of him getting on the dance floor and then seduced into a backroom.

    @AronDracula I would say it's a game full of potential character arcs but wasted for cheap drama.

    True dat.
    Of course, I was quoting one of Saberspark's friends regarding stories where the majority of the cast are some variety of asshole.

    For me, yes. Abby is barely affected by the death of her friends, she didn't seem to suffer from being tortured by Rattlers and she doesn't say anything after Ellie spares her life, she just walks away.

    I don't know about that second one, considering she was clearly strung up on the beach and then left to deteriorate for what could've been weeks.
    What you do mean by the last one, though?

    Out of all the wasted characters, Jesse takes the crown for being the worst of the bunch. He is not a bad character but the most unnecessary of the whole game. As much as I hate how Joel is handled in this story, Jesse is the one that pisses me off the most. He served no major purposes to the story whatsoever or at least in Seattle. Take him out of those chapters and nothing would have changed, except being shorter, no AI partner and no car chase sequence. Like seriously, what did he do in Seattle?

    i suppose that is true. All he really gets is being JJ's dad.

    We learn a lot about his character but in the end, he dies by a cheap shot and it doesn't even matter. He is only mentioned once in the epilogue and we don't get to hear Dina's reaction to his death.

    It's been several weeks I realize, but do we?

    Abby should have been the one who saves Joel instead of vice-versa. That would have given Joel a good reason to follow her to the mansion. Also, instead of Joel dying in the first 2 hours of game, have him die in the middle of the game by putting the flashbacks of him and Ellie in chronological order.

    Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

  • What you do mean by the last one, though?

    After Ellie spares her life after the fight on the beach, Abby doesn't say anything like "Sorry", "Thank you" or "Take care". She just walks away like nothing happened and it looks like she doesn't regret killing Joel in front of Ellie.

    DabigRG posted: »

    You wanna know something kinda wacked: that original idea for how Abby meets Joel just invokes the idea of him getting on the dance floor an

  • I mean, Ellie had literally recently just flipped on a dime earlier about letting her go to going to "Nevermind, want to kill her", I would just walk away silently with Lev to not provoke her and make her change her mind again. Besides, is there really a reason to thank someone for not killing you?

    AronDracula posted: »

    What you do mean by the last one, though? After Ellie spares her life after the fight on the beach, Abby doesn't say anything like "

  • Abby did not regret killing Joel in front of Ellie and refused to admit it because for some reason, she doesn't seem to think that killing Joel is the reason why Owen and Mel died in the first place. Ellie did blame herself when she killed Mel but Abby didn't.

    Besides, is there really a reason to thank someone for not killing you?

    You tell me? You'd rather ask Abby's apologists this question. Cause most of them are defending her actions by saying "She is not a bad person because she did spare Ellie's life twice" when they don't even know the difference sparing and saving someone's life. Like did they actually expect Ellie to say "My friend is dead, I dunno why you did that but thanks for not killing me"?

    dojo32161 posted: »

    I mean, Ellie had literally recently just flipped on a dime earlier about letting her go to going to "Nevermind, want to kill her", I would

  • I think the better reasoning would be why risk sticking around when she already crossed the line in threatening Lev?
    That alone is a reason to fuck off asap when given the chance.

    @AronDracula Abby did not regret killing Joel in front of Ellie and refused to admit it because for some reason, she doesn't seem to think that killing Joel is the reason why Owen and Mel died in the first place. Ellie did blame herself when she killed Mel but Abby didn't.

    Abby not really keying into Ellie being out for revenge or at least that her friends were all dying because of her is a flaw in the storytelling, yes.

    She is not a bad person because she did spare Ellie's life twice" when they don't even know the difference sparing and saving someone's life.

    Huh?

    dojo32161 posted: »

    I mean, Ellie had literally recently just flipped on a dime earlier about letting her go to going to "Nevermind, want to kill her", I would

  • Is this becoming a trend now? When the face models get more attention from the public by recording and playing the games who borrowed their faces for the characters. The first one is Bryan Dechart (Face and VA of Connor from Detroit Become Human), then Sasha Zotova (Face of Jill Valentine from Resident Evil 3) and now Cascina Caradonna? I'll take that as a win.

    That makes me wish Dina had a better character arc because she had potential.

    She is cute.

  • edited August 2020

    I guess people like seeing whoever is behind the character (be it face-model or VA)'s impressions on the game. Maybe see if they get some inside info on any behind-the-scenes of the game, too.

    (You can also add to that list Briana White, the VA for Aerith in Final Fantasy 7 Remake)
    She streamed her first playthrough of it, and burst into tears after seeing/hearing herself voice this beloved character.

    Must be quite the shock -- especially to new actors in the industry -- to suddenly make it big and see their labor come to fruition like this in all these huge games recently. It's cool to watch, I guess.

    AronDracula posted: »

    Is this becoming a trend now? When the face models get more attention from the public by recording and playing the games who borrowed their

  • I had to look this up real quick while she was having fun with the cut on music there.
    Funny to think about--what was doing before this game?

    @AronDracula That makes me wish Dina had a better character arc because she had potential.

    What was her arc?

    She is cute.

  • What was her arc?

    Just being Ellie's new girlfriend but that's it.

    DabigRG posted: »

    I had to look this up real quick while she was having fun with the cut on music there. Funny to think about--what was doing before this ga

  • That's a role more than an arc. Especially since they arguably hooked up in that E3 flashback and them getting closer wasn't exactly highlighted, from what I recall.

    AronDracula posted: »

    What was her arc? Just being Ellie's new girlfriend but that's it.

  • edited September 2020

    Outbreak Day, The Last of Us Day, whatever you want to call it Day is today, and Naughty Dog have revealed a whole bunch of promotions and new merch as they do every year, thiugh I think this year has the most so far.

    Much of this will be going on sale or will be available starting 9am PT/12pm ET/etc.

    Lets break it down, I'll put pictures at the bottom.

    • New 2xLP Limited Vinyls and Posters.
      Vinyls are while supplies last and Posters are a limited time release -- until Wednesday September 30th. More details at MondoShop.com

    • The Last of Us: The Board Game is being planned out. (From the creators of Bloodborne: The Board Game and God of War: The Card Game).

    • They released an Abby cosplay guide on their social media channels (I'm sure many of you don't care a smidge about that! :D)
    • 3 different, increasingly more special Ellie statues have been unveiled, available for pre-order from GamingHeads.com.
    • An extremely cool 1/9th scale statue of Joel and Ellie, mimicking the first game, available from Mamegyorai, shipping in March.
    • All The Last of Us Part 2 themes and avatars will be free today until Monday, including a new one based on the post-game Beach menu screen.
    • Bunch of other cool deals on the Playstation Store and the Playstation Gear (merch) stores.

    TheLastOfUs.com/TLOUDay will have more to show today, I guess.



    Cool Kojima Productions x TLOU Wallpaper Also on Mobile

  • Okay so no factions 2 yet...
    Once again this year's OBD is one big merch promotion day (though last year we got some trailers and a partII release date shown).

    Well, there is this...

    (Also did I mention Naughty Dog continued the trend famously started by Santa Monica Studios and recreated iconic memes using their game assets?? Because they did. And they're great.)

  • edited September 2020

    I was about say, where'd that come from?

    Good to know they're having fun though
    Edit: Fucking Joel, man.

    AChicken posted: »

    Okay so no factions 2 yet... Once again this year's OBD is one big merch promotion day (though last year we got some trailers and a partII

  • edited September 2020

    It's beautiful how they are still using Joel for promotions and collector editions, even though he is dead meat and nothing about him matters anymore.

  • edited October 2020

    Oh. Dude. Just--just stop torturing yourself. Let go.
    You don't like the sequel... you don't like Joel's death... doesn't mean Naughty Dog can't try to keep major story beats under wraps for those who still don't know.
    (And also where's Joel being used for Part 2 Collector's Editions. I thought the CEs all had Ellie-only memorabilia.)

    AronDracula posted: »

    It's beautiful how they are still using Joel for promotions and collector editions, even though he is dead meat and nothing about him matters anymore.

  • Dead characters can still be used for promotional material.

    AronDracula posted: »

    It's beautiful how they are still using Joel for promotions and collector editions, even though he is dead meat and nothing about him matters anymore.

  • You know what? You're right. I should just stop talking about this game. Naughty Dog flipped me off despite my support for them. I'll never forgive them for lying to my face with those terrible trailers. If they don't respect me, I won't respect them. I don't even feel like continuing the my review series because it takes me way too long to edit and the story is way all over the place. I just want to forget about this game and move to a better place.

    AChicken posted: »

    Oh. Dude. Just--just stop torturing yourself. Let go. You don't like the sequel... you don't like Joel's death... doesn't mean Naughty Dog

  • I thought they wanted us to hate Joel because you know, he doomed the whole humanity and he is the main villain but ok.

    Ghetsis posted: »

    Dead characters can still be used for promotional material.

  • Maybe you should just stop watching trailers.

    AronDracula posted: »

    You know what? You're right. I should just stop talking about this game. Naughty Dog flipped me off despite my support for them. I'll never

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