Well everyone's favorite Lilly was against even going out to save Lee and everyone, she yelled at Carley and Glenn for going out and helping. And hey if my son almost died in front of me, I'd hold him too
Don't even bother. Besides the obvious Schroedinger's issue that CapnJay mentioned (some of us never have to go through the emotional trauma of being "betrayed" by Kenny, because we sided with him), this is a group full of people who are willing to give Lily and Larry (the guy that TRIED to get you killed back in episode one) a second chance, but not give one to Kenny, even going so far as to retroactively judge him based on his one brash decision.
Everyone wants to see black and white in a world that is grey, because it suits their need for vengeance.
Don't even bother. Besides the obvious Schroedinger's issue that CapnJay mentioned (some of us never have to go through the emotional trauma of being "betrayed" by Kenny, because we sided with him), this is a group full of people who are willing to give Lily and Larry (the guy that TRIED to get you killed back in episode one) a second chance, but not give one to Kenny, even going so far as to retroactively judge him based on his one brash decision.
Everyone wants to see black and white in a world that is grey, because it suits their need for vengeance.
I don't think anyone is giving Larry a second chance? They just don't think he deserved to die, or that his daughter deserved to watch her only remaining relative crushed with a massive block.
You cannot put Lily in the same boat as him either, she hasn't tried to kill anyone and has also never backed away from helping other members of the group, even if they hate her.
She's seems difficult person to deal with but her heart is in the right place, Kenny just wants things his way otherwise he throws his toys out of the pram.
P.S Mooneysuzuki, so you are telling me that if a group of strangers attract every (un)living zombie around to the building you are hiding at and somebody from your group goes out shooting a gun attracting even more zombies, you will be okay with that? You will be willing to accept some complete strangers, one of whom is covered is mud and is probably bitten. And those people are not only strangers, but they are even ready to pick a fight with your group. You are okay with that?
Hey man, I live in Manhattan so chances are if there are zombies walking around, I would be one of the walkers outside so i wouldn't have to make those decisions hahah. My point is as Lee, I would be pretty pissed off at Lilly in that situation for wanting to leave me for dead.
I understand where you guys are coming from on Lilly's side, but she rubbed me the wrong way at the drug store[SPOILERS]( plus what she does at the prison in the comics) so I've decided to put all my money in with Kenny. That's the good part about this game though, let's you choose.
I don't think anyone is giving Larry a second chance? They just don't think he deserved to die, or that his daughter deserved to watch her only remaining relative crushed with a massive block.
You cannot put Lily in the same boat as him either, she hasn't tried to kill anyone and has also never backed away from helping other members of the group, even if they hate her.
She's seems difficult person to deal with but her heart is in the right place, Kenny just wants things his way otherwise he throws his toys out of the pram.
YOU might not have, but I have seen plenty of people around the forums justify his behavior in the drug store as just trying to "save his daughter" - an opinion with which I wholeheartedly concur. I call that giving the guy a second chance.
Also Lily CAN be lumped in the same boat, because she initially refuses to save your group from the Walkers in front of the Drug Store. However, she was doing so because she was afraid that you would attract the Walkers and get EVERYONE killed. She deserves another chance.
I also remember a lot of people on here (not accusing anyone specifically, but pointing out it was a popular opinion on the forums), that after episode one, were just waiting for the chance to kill Larry. I was not one of those people. I was mad at him, and would no longer trust him with my life or safety, but I wasn't actively seeking to kill him.
I see Kenny as the same type of person that you see Lily - morally grey. In fact, a major theme of The Walking Dead is that many characters will do some pretty messed up things in the name of "survival". Do you have a right to be mad at Kenny? Yes you do. But I don't agree with the people on here saying things like "Murder Kenny and his whole family RAWR!" anymore than the people who were saying the same things about Lily and Larry at the end of episode one.
I just wish there were other possible solutions to that event. Like since there were so many salt licks in the locker, they could be used to pin Larry's body to the floor during the compressions instead of smashing his head off. 300 pound gorilla or not, I doubt he could get up very fast with a few hundred pounds of those pinning his legs and arms.
But I guess such an elaborate solution doesn't suit the panic mentality of the game's events. *sigh*Didn't like the guy, but didn't want to have his head splattered like a balloon in front of me.
I just wish there were other possible solutions to that event. Like since there were so many salt licks in the locker, they could be used to pin Larry's body to the floor during the compressions instead of smashing his head off. 300 pound gorilla or not, I doubt he could get up very fast with a few hundred pounds of those pinning his legs and arms.
But I guess such an elaborate solution doesn't suit the panic mentality of the game's events. *sigh*Didn't like the guy, but didn't want to have his head splattered like a balloon in front of me.
The problem I have with people saying to restrain him first is that CPR is only useful if it's actually being done. In fact, any delay or pause in CPR dramatically tanks it's effectiveness. Let's face it, if you take the time to put salt blocks on his limbs, the guy is gonna die anyway and your "planning" meant nothing.
ask yourself this...if the group had to split right now and the two sides were kenny, duck, katja,ben or lilly, carley/doug...who would you rather take clem with?
one side is virtually useless and the other has been the backbone of survival...
I don't think Ben would go with Kenny. He has spent most time with Carley/Doug and Lee was the one to take up the leader spot in the teacher event so I'm pretty sure he will choose Carley/Doug, Lee and Lilly.
That makes you wonder... would there be anyone to follow Kenny and his family? Besides ,Sisterofshane, I mean :P
I just wish there were other possible solutions to that event. Like since there were so many salt licks in the locker, they could be used to pin Larry's body to the floor during the compressions instead of smashing his head off. 300 pound gorilla or not, I doubt he could get up very fast with a few hundred pounds of those pinning his legs and arms.
But I guess such an elaborate solution doesn't suit the panic mentality of the game's events. *sigh*Didn't like the guy, but didn't want to have his head splattered like a balloon in front of me.
So you are telling me you expected a group of people who just witnessed a guy get his legs cut off and then fed back to them, who just got kidnapped, and are worrying for the sake of the rest of the group, and the risk of an incredibly strong zombie about to rise to think of that complex a plan?
I don't think Ben would go with Kenny. He has spent most time with Carley/Doug and Lee was the one to take up the leader spot in the teacher event so I'm pretty sure he will choose Carley/Doug, Lee and Lilly.
That makes you wonder... would there be anyone to follow Kenny and his family? Besides ,Sisterofshane, I mean :P
I would in a heartbeat haha. Kenny's my bro for life
I just wish there were other possible solutions to that event. Like since there were so many salt licks in the locker, they could be used to pin Larry's body to the floor during the compressions instead of smashing his head off. 300 pound gorilla or not, I doubt he could get up very fast with a few hundred pounds of those pinning his legs and arms.
But I guess such an elaborate solution doesn't suit the panic mentality of the game's events. *sigh*Didn't like the guy, but didn't want to have his head splattered like a balloon in front of me.
You don't even to be that elaborate: You can see that atleast Lily was wearing a belt that could've been used as a restraint in the event Larry did reanimate, and given she has Lee take over for her in doing chest compressions, her hands were free to make that contingency work.
YOU might not have, but I have seen plenty of people around the forums justify his behavior in the drug store as just trying to "save his daughter" - an opinion with which I wholeheartedly concur. I call that giving the guy a second chance.
Also Lily CAN be lumped in the same boat, because she initially refuses to save your group from the Walkers in front of the Drug Store. However, she was doing so because she was afraid that you would attract the Walkers and get EVERYONE killed. She deserves another chance.
I also remember a lot of people on here (not accusing anyone specifically, but pointing out it was a popular opinion on the forums), that after episode one, were just waiting for the chance to kill Larry. I was not one of those people. I was mad at him, and would no longer trust him with my life or safety, but I wasn't actively seeking to kill him.
I see Kenny as the same type of person that you see Lily - morally grey. In fact, a major theme of The Walking Dead is that many characters will do some pretty messed up things in the name of "survival". Do you have a right to be mad at Kenny? Yes you do. But I don't agree with the people on here saying things like "Murder Kenny and his whole family RAWR!" anymore than the people who were saying the same things about Lily and Larry at the end of episode one.
At the time outside of the pharmacy you were just a stranger to Lily so I cannot really blame her for not wanting to help, she has no idea if you are a danger or not (look at how the whole group, including Lee, react to the St Johns outside of their camp, and even the kids trapped in the beartrap initially). Anyway she's certainly not the warmest person at first but she came round to me, we just met in a bad situation. On the other hand you meet Kenny in a quaint farmhouse when everything is hunky dory, had it been in a more volotile setting I think he's shown enough in the the first 2 episodes to suggest he wouldn't have stuck his neck on the line to help, just like Lily.
Don't get me wrong I understand his viewpoint, he's lucky enough to still have his wife and child and they are his main priority, every decision he makes will have their interests at heart which is fair enough, however this means that in this group of strangers he's alienated in a way (it was the same with Larry who is apparently a dick, but at the end of the day was similarly only looking out for his daughter).
Lee has Clem to look after but he also clearly understands that the rest of the group need him too and will go out of his way to protect them and help them out with their troubles, he even has time for Larry (if you play it that way).
I see both Kenny and Lily as pretty similar tbh, Lily has shown to me though that she cares about the group and she's also shown to have her reasons for her aggressive personality, I also cannot remember her at any time letting any of the core group down. Kenny seems to disregard the safety and welfare of everyone else for for his family, I just think there has to be a balance, you have to keep your family safe but you also have to have some faith in the group, I don't think Kenny does.
I think that in a future episode if you tell clementine killing is right then she will have to kill someone if you try to keep her innocent then duck will.
So you are telling me you expected a group of people who just witnessed a guy get his legs cut off and then fed back to them, who just got kidnapped, and are worrying for the sake of the rest of the group, and the risk of an incredibly strong zombie about to rise to think of that complex a plan?
The human race has come up with far more complex plans in far more testing circumstances so I cannot see why not, like has been mentioned though this is just one of many solutions.
Lily's belt could have been used to wrap his jaw, other items of clothing too could have restrained him, shirt, jeans, jackets etc, take them off and get wrapping.
just an fyi, I am disliking Kenny more and more with every playthrough, and ya I think he keeps Lee around cause he's useful in protecting Kenny's family.
So I did a test and I sided with Larry/Lily and every turn. Was ready to kick duck out; sided with Lily at the motor inn; fed Larry/Lily at the Motor Inn; even gave him my axe; told Mark he was just looking out for his daughter...Even sided with Lily and tried to bring him back but...this guy is just going to hate you. Period.
So I invited him to chow down on Mark's legs.
In all honesty though, how many of you would really have taken that chance?
Stuck in a 12x12 room with that gorilla once he turned? That's really a no-brainer isnt it?
At the time outside of the pharmacy you were just a stranger to Lily so I cannot really blame her for not wanting to help, she has no idea if you are a danger or not (look at how the whole group, including Lee, react to the St Johns outside of their camp, and even the kids trapped in the beartrap initially). Anyway she's certainly not the warmest person at first but she came round to me, we just met in a bad situation. On the other hand you meet Kenny in a quant farmhouse when everything is hunky dory, had it been in a more volotile setting I think he's shown enough in the the first 2 episodes to suggest he wouldn't have helped, just like Lily.
Don't get me wrong I understand his viewpoint, he's lucky enough to still have his wife and child and they are his main priority, every decision he makes will have their interests at heart which is fair enough, however this means that in this group of strangers he's alienated in a way (it was the same with Larry who is apparently a dick, but at the end of the day was similarly only looking out for his daughter).
Lee has Clem to look after but he also clearly understands that the rest of the group need him too and will go out of his way to protect them and help them out with their troubles, he even has time for Larry (if you play it that way).
I see both Kenny and Lily as pretty similar tbh, Lily has shown to me though that she cares about the group and she's also shown to have her reasons for her aggressive personality, I also cannot remember her at any time letting any of the core group down. Kenny seems to disregard the safety and welfare of everyone else for for his family, I just think there has to be a balance, you have to keep your family safe but you also have to have some faith in the group, I don't think Kenny does.
That's the way I see it, realistically, I wouldn't blame anybody for prioritizing their family. Lily's main priority is her father (and one assumes the reverse is also true), just like Lee's main priority is Clementine. However, they do actually care about the group (even Larry expresses concern over Clementine because he doesn't trust Lee). The difference is Kenny's family is his only priority, he doesn't come across as really caring about the group except as a tool to that end.
I would hate to be in a sealed room with a 300 pound gorilla...but wouldnt mind so much watching for a 300 pound man to turn into a zombie where he can slowly shamble arround while the other full grown, highly capable individuals in the room can help me take him out...
just an fyi, I am disliking Kenny more and more with every playthrough, and ya I think he keeps Lee around cause he's useful in protecting Kenny's family.
So I did a test and I sided with Larry/Lily and every turn. Was ready to kick duck out; sided with Lily at the motor inn; fed Larry/Lily at the Motor Inn; even gave him my axe; told Mark he was just looking out for his daughter...Even sided with Lily and tried to bring him back but...this guy is just going to hate you. Period.
So I invited him to chow down on Mark's legs.
In all honesty though, how many of you would really have taken that chance?
Stuck in a 12x12 room with that gorilla once he turned? That's really a no-brainer isnt it?
Every following playthrough, my despise for Kenny is growing rapidly. At this point I can't even force myself to side with him anymore. I just have to treat him like the trash he is.
And if all Kenny supporters keep claiming that we should act rationally then from the very first choice (Shawn/Duck) we should all always choose Shawn. Duck is a little boy, that is stupid as a bag of hammers (Kenny's words... seriously that guy...). Being the stupid brat that he is, he will probably die or put even more people in danger. He can't contribute to anyone.
Shawn however is the guy that saves you and Clementine. The guy that helps his father protect a family of a many members. The guy that gives you shelter and realizes the potential dangers of walkers roaming around. If we've got to be rational it doesn't make sense to save a little (annoying) kid if you can save a young adult.
I would hate to be in a sealed room with a 300 pound gorilla...but wouldnt mind so much watching for a 300 pound man to turn into a zombie where he can slowly shamble arround while the other full grown, highly capable individuals in the room can help me take him out...
yeah but he doesn't have to get up to kill one of them, plenty of people have been killed in the comics from walking past a lurker on the ground, and think about it, Lilly was right on top of him, and so is Lee is you choose to help he could have easily bitten one of them.
I understand you guys really have it out for Kenny and i can understand how some of his choices you guys cant agree with, but like Xarne said its a no-brainer
^^^ I would agree with you if I (Lee) hadn't already seen how easy it is to actually fight off a lone zombie. Even when Larry was being an asshole about Duck being bitten he didn't just run up and smash in the boys head or throw him out, instead he argued his case, Kenny did no such thing, just BAM.
And my hatred for Kenny didn't begin with the Larry murder anyway. I never truly forgave Larry for punching me in the face. I was angry because I new that Larry's death had just fucked the group but hadn't wrote Kenny off at that point. It wasn't until he cowared in that stall that I realized what a truly, sorry peice-of-shit he was. Up till that point Me and Kenny were like "peas and carrots."
Now, no matter if you are arguing for or against Kenny, how can anyone (who didn't help him murder Larry) ever be able to trust him in a life or death situation? Thats a no-brainer!
Now will Kenny redeem himself during the next three episodes? I seriously doubt it...but we shall see.
(by the way, Larry was such an asshole that, even though he new about his heart condition, he helped maintain that fence while the totally un-selfish Kenny worked on what...oh yeah, the RV that was only for him and his family.)
^^^ I would agree with you if I (Lee) hadn't already seen how easy it is to actually fight off a lone zombie. Even when Larry was being an asshole about Duck being bitten he didn't just run up and smash in the boys head or throw him out, instead he argued his case, Kenny did no such thing, just BAM.
And my hatred for Kenny didn't begin with the Larry murder anyway. I never truly forgave Larry for punching me in the face. I was angry because I new that Larry's death had just fucked the group but hadn't wrote Kenny off at that point. It wasn't until he cowared in that stall that I realized what a truly, sorry peice-of-shit he was. Up till that point Me and Kenny were like "peas and carrots."
Now, no matter if you are arguing for or against Kenny, how can anyone (who didn't help him murder Larry) ever be able to trust him in a life or death situation? Thats a no-brainer!
Now will Kenny redeem himself during the next three episodes? I seriously doubt it...but we shall see.
(by the way, Larry was such an asshole that, even though he new about his heart condition, he helped maintain that fence while the totally un-selfish Kenny worked on what...oh yeah, the RV that was only for him and his family.)
I'm reminded of All Thats episode Miss Piddlin's Peas vs Miss Tula's Carrots
^^^ I would agree with you if I (Lee) hadn't already seen how easy it is to actually fight off a lone zombie. Even when Larry was being an asshole about Duck being bitten he didn't just run up and smash in the boys head or throw him out, instead he argued his case, Kenny did no such thing, just BAM.
And my hatred for Kenny didn't begin with the Larry murder anyway. I never truly forgave Larry for punching me in the face. I was angry because I new that Larry's death had just fucked the group but hadn't wrote Kenny off at that point. It wasn't until he cowared in that stall that I realized what a truly, sorry peice-of-shit he was. Up till that point Me and Kenny were like "peas and carrots."
Now, no matter if you are arguing for or against Kenny, how can anyone (who didn't help him murder Larry) ever be able to trust him in a life or death situation? Thats a no-brainer!
Now will Kenny redeem himself during the next three episodes? I seriously doubt it...but we shall see.
(by the way, Larry was such an asshole that, even though he new about his heart condition, he helped maintain that fence while the totally un-selfish Kenny worked on what...oh yeah, the RV that was only for him and his family.)
I haven't had a good opinion of Kenny since Episode 1, even though we were on good terms. He was a hypocrite even then, e.g. pouncing on Lily for not wanting to save their group when we learn from Katjaa that Kenny wasn't exactly a good samaritan either.
Despite that, I didn't totally turn against him until Episode 2, simply because everybody's hypocritical about stuff at some point. Episode 2 was when he went from hypocrite/coward to sheer dickishness. He was the first one to lay blame on others if things went bad (e.g. Ben), he suggested taking the Dairy by force (when the owners had invited them and offered to feed them), and to steal the supplies from the car (even though it'd screw over the owner if they were still alive).
Let's summarize his track record: He's the first member of the group to kill another member and advocates theft from other survivors. At that point it's pretty much a gamble (and probably a losing one) that he won't eventually rationalize screwing over the group itself as being okay. As Joleen says at the end "It's the living you've got to watch out for. The dead don't kill their own.", anybody who assumes that the lesson of Episode 2 only applies to the St. John's family is making a mistake in my view.
At the time outside of the pharmacy you were just a stranger to Lily so I cannot really blame her for not wanting to help, she has no idea if you are a danger or not (look at how the whole group, including Lee, react to the St Johns outside of their camp, and even the kids trapped in the beartrap initially). Anyway she's certainly not the warmest person at first but she came round to me, we just met in a bad situation. On the other hand you meet Kenny in a quaint farmhouse when everything is hunky dory, had it been in a more volotile setting I think he's shown enough in the the first 2 episodes to suggest he wouldn't have stuck his neck on the line to help, just like Lily.
Don't get me wrong I understand his viewpoint, he's lucky enough to still have his wife and child and they are his main priority, every decision he makes will have their interests at heart which is fair enough, however this means that in this group of strangers he's alienated in a way (it was the same with Larry who is apparently a dick, but at the end of the day was similarly only looking out for his daughter).
Lee has Clem to look after but he also clearly understands that the rest of the group need him too and will go out of his way to protect them and help them out with their troubles, he even has time for Larry (if you play it that way).
I see both Kenny and Lily as pretty similar tbh, Lily has shown to me though that she cares about the group and she's also shown to have her reasons for her aggressive personality, I also cannot remember her at any time letting any of the core group down. Kenny seems to disregard the safety and welfare of everyone else for for his family, I just think there has to be a balance, you have to keep your family safe but you also have to have some faith in the group, I don't think Kenny does.
I honestly have the same opinion of Lilly's character as you, except I would liken most of Kenny's behavior to Larry's as opposed to her. Thinking on my REAL life, I have one daughter just like him - and as much as I love my mother, I don't think I would protect her as aggressively as I would my child (especially seeing as how she is a young Child, like Kenny and Duck). I can sympathize with Kenny too, because despite clearly tending for the group (risking his life to hunt for food, for example) he won't put them ahead of his family. That's why when the group decides to stay at the Motor Inn (possibly because Mark provides them with food which makes it a bit more "cushy"), he sees the writing on the wall (eventually the food is going to run out) and makes the decision to leave with his family. Lilly has her dad, but not any children/husband to care for. It's easier to be a bit more detached when the person you care for is more than capable of taking care of themselves (and we see this a bit with Kenny and Katjaa, with whom he is not shown to be so aggressive about protecting as Duck).
Also from my playthrough, I see Kenny as the kind of character that becomes easily accepting of someone, as long as that someone treats his family with the same regard. If you side with him in the Drug Store, and put the children's well being above all else in each situation, then he all but guarantees you have a place with him in his motor home. He talks about not leaving you behind often - it's clear that, if you treat him like family, he extends the same feelings toward you. And I don't see Lee forming that kind of relationship with anyone else in the group.
I can also see where people who, have up to this point, have sided with him over everything BUT the case in the meat locker, might see his behavior as inappropriate, but I REALLY think he should have another chance. I would be seriously upset with TTG if they don't provide some sort of reconciliation between Lee and Kenny (for those players who want it).
Every following playthrough, my despise for Kenny is growing rapidly. At this point I can't even force myself to side with him anymore. I just have to treat him like the trash he is.
And if all Kenny supporters keep claiming that we should act rationally then from the very first choice (Shawn/Duck) we should all always choose Shawn. Duck is a little boy, that is stupid as a bag of hammers (Kenny's words... seriously that guy...). Being the stupid brat that he is, he will probably die or put even more people in danger. He can't contribute to anyone.
Shawn however is the guy that saves you and Clementine. The guy that helps his father protect a family of a many members. The guy that gives you shelter and realizes the potential dangers of walkers roaming around. If we've got to be rational it doesn't make sense to save a little (annoying) kid if you can save a young adult.
LOL, I actually did try to save Shawn in my playthrough - not because I valued him more than Duck, but because I figured that EVERYONE had come running when they heard Shawn scream, and that out of the other two adults were there (both of them being Duck's parents), that they would handle Duck while I tried to help Shawn. For a millisecond I regretted it, thinking that Duck was going to die - but then I turned out to be right.
If I had been alone, or I knew that I was the only one who could have responded in time, I probably would have saved Duck. Children ARE important - what's the point of surviving if we don't try to protect our future?
The point is to protect the present, maybe? During a zombie apocalypse children are liability. Even if you are alone, according to your "I'm a rational player" logic, Shawn should be the first choice. If not, then your rationalism is a bit inconsistent.
the thing about Kenny its that in reverse situations...i would jump on danny and try to help out...cause 2x1 is better than 1x1.
I don`t hate him because of that(people do get scared or some other stuff) i just don`t trust him anymore
well it depends on your choice in the meat locker. If you choose to help Lilly then Kenny does hide but if you help Kenny then he is the one who saves you with Danny while Lilly stays with Larry's body. Also if you choose Kenny Lilly doesn't try to help when Andy has you to the fence, she stares at you and looks down
Yeah, you helped Kenny kill her dad. Of course she wouldn't care you anymore.
On the other hand if you try to save a guy's life Kenny leaves you to die. What's his excuse? That you disagree with him once?
ask yourself this...if the group had to split right now and the two sides were kenny, duck, katja,ben or lilly, carley/doug...who would you rather take clem with?
one side is virtually useless and the other has been the backbone of survival...
Lee, Clem, Doug and Lilly are my team of choice.
i will let Kenny, Katja, Duck, and Ben go their own way.
That way in a week when I stumble across their zombie forms i can laugh and make a vent hole in their heads.
Yeah, you helped Kenny kill her dad. Of course she wouldn't care you anymore.
On the other hand if you try to save a guy's life Kenny leaves you to die. What's his excuse? That you disagree with him once?
valid point man but I just relate more to him, plus like i said we know Lilly's future so i guess that just rubs me the wrong way
I couldn't stand Lori so I'm grateful to Lilly for that. We can't really blame for it cause she was manipulated by the Governor, her entire group was. However, she end's him as well, so in my book she's amazing
Lee, Clem, Doug and Lilly are my team of choice.
i will let Kenny, Katja, Duck, and Ben go their own way.
That way in a week when I stumble across their zombie forms i can laugh and make a vent hole in their heads.
Ben's kinda been an "empty uniform", not good, not bad. He just hasn't had the face time for me to have an opinion on him yet.
Only reason I'd be at all hesitant to boot Kenny's ass out is that Katjaa would almost certainly go with him, and she's the closest thing the group has to a medic. From a downright bastardly "hard choice, risk and reward" perspective, even Duck's a liability and expendable: the kid's loud and mentally slow (we see as much, even Kenny doesn't deny it), so I'd peg his chances of growing into a competent, self-sufficient adult as being... questionable. By contrast, Clem's quiet, intelligent, and aware of what's going on around her. When we first meet her she's already been living on her own for a few days, which is an encouraging sign that she won't be totally reliant on parental care as she grows up.
Comments
Don't even bother. Besides the obvious Schroedinger's issue that CapnJay mentioned (some of us never have to go through the emotional trauma of being "betrayed" by Kenny, because we sided with him), this is a group full of people who are willing to give Lily and Larry (the guy that TRIED to get you killed back in episode one) a second chance, but not give one to Kenny, even going so far as to retroactively judge him based on his one brash decision.
Everyone wants to see black and white in a world that is grey, because it suits their need for vengeance.
I don't think anyone is giving Larry a second chance? They just don't think he deserved to die, or that his daughter deserved to watch her only remaining relative crushed with a massive block.
You cannot put Lily in the same boat as him either, she hasn't tried to kill anyone and has also never backed away from helping other members of the group, even if they hate her.
She's seems difficult person to deal with but her heart is in the right place, Kenny just wants things his way otherwise he throws his toys out of the pram.
Hey man, I live in Manhattan so chances are if there are zombies walking around, I would be one of the walkers outside so i wouldn't have to make those decisions hahah. My point is as Lee, I would be pretty pissed off at Lilly in that situation for wanting to leave me for dead.
I understand where you guys are coming from on Lilly's side, but she rubbed me the wrong way at the drug store[SPOILERS]( plus what she does at the prison in the comics) so I've decided to put all my money in with Kenny. That's the good part about this game though, let's you choose.
YOU might not have, but I have seen plenty of people around the forums justify his behavior in the drug store as just trying to "save his daughter" - an opinion with which I wholeheartedly concur. I call that giving the guy a second chance.
Also Lily CAN be lumped in the same boat, because she initially refuses to save your group from the Walkers in front of the Drug Store. However, she was doing so because she was afraid that you would attract the Walkers and get EVERYONE killed. She deserves another chance.
I also remember a lot of people on here (not accusing anyone specifically, but pointing out it was a popular opinion on the forums), that after episode one, were just waiting for the chance to kill Larry. I was not one of those people. I was mad at him, and would no longer trust him with my life or safety, but I wasn't actively seeking to kill him.
I see Kenny as the same type of person that you see Lily - morally grey. In fact, a major theme of The Walking Dead is that many characters will do some pretty messed up things in the name of "survival". Do you have a right to be mad at Kenny? Yes you do. But I don't agree with the people on here saying things like "Murder Kenny and his whole family RAWR!" anymore than the people who were saying the same things about Lily and Larry at the end of episode one.
But I guess such an elaborate solution doesn't suit the panic mentality of the game's events. *sigh*Didn't like the guy, but didn't want to have his head splattered like a balloon in front of me.
The problem I have with people saying to restrain him first is that CPR is only useful if it's actually being done. In fact, any delay or pause in CPR dramatically tanks it's effectiveness. Let's face it, if you take the time to put salt blocks on his limbs, the guy is gonna die anyway and your "planning" meant nothing.
one side is virtually useless and the other has been the backbone of survival...
That makes you wonder... would there be anyone to follow Kenny and his family? Besides ,Sisterofshane, I mean :P
That's pretty much what I would have liked to have happened. Too bad it didn't.
So you are telling me you expected a group of people who just witnessed a guy get his legs cut off and then fed back to them, who just got kidnapped, and are worrying for the sake of the rest of the group, and the risk of an incredibly strong zombie about to rise to think of that complex a plan?
I would in a heartbeat haha. Kenny's my bro for life
You don't even to be that elaborate: You can see that atleast Lily was wearing a belt that could've been used as a restraint in the event Larry did reanimate, and given she has Lee take over for her in doing chest compressions, her hands were free to make that contingency work.
well as long as you obey his every desire and totally succumb to his will then you are probally right and he will be your bro for life...
but if you ever dare question him or, God forbid, he ever has a reason to think that you might be about to turn then
BAM
...head soup time
At the time outside of the pharmacy you were just a stranger to Lily so I cannot really blame her for not wanting to help, she has no idea if you are a danger or not (look at how the whole group, including Lee, react to the St Johns outside of their camp, and even the kids trapped in the beartrap initially). Anyway she's certainly not the warmest person at first but she came round to me, we just met in a bad situation. On the other hand you meet Kenny in a quaint farmhouse when everything is hunky dory, had it been in a more volotile setting I think he's shown enough in the the first 2 episodes to suggest he wouldn't have stuck his neck on the line to help, just like Lily.
Don't get me wrong I understand his viewpoint, he's lucky enough to still have his wife and child and they are his main priority, every decision he makes will have their interests at heart which is fair enough, however this means that in this group of strangers he's alienated in a way (it was the same with Larry who is apparently a dick, but at the end of the day was similarly only looking out for his daughter).
Lee has Clem to look after but he also clearly understands that the rest of the group need him too and will go out of his way to protect them and help them out with their troubles, he even has time for Larry (if you play it that way).
I see both Kenny and Lily as pretty similar tbh, Lily has shown to me though that she cares about the group and she's also shown to have her reasons for her aggressive personality, I also cannot remember her at any time letting any of the core group down. Kenny seems to disregard the safety and welfare of everyone else for for his family, I just think there has to be a balance, you have to keep your family safe but you also have to have some faith in the group, I don't think Kenny does.
Reasons have already been posted by other players.
-US ambassador clears throat and stands up-
F*** CANADA! -Middle finger-
The human race has come up with far more complex plans in far more testing circumstances so I cannot see why not, like has been mentioned though this is just one of many solutions.
Lily's belt could have been used to wrap his jaw, other items of clothing too could have restrained him, shirt, jeans, jackets etc, take them off and get wrapping.
So I did a test and I sided with Larry/Lily and every turn. Was ready to kick duck out; sided with Lily at the motor inn; fed Larry/Lily at the Motor Inn; even gave him my axe; told Mark he was just looking out for his daughter...Even sided with Lily and tried to bring him back but...this guy is just going to hate you. Period.
So I invited him to chow down on Mark's legs.
In all honesty though, how many of you would really have taken that chance?
Stuck in a 12x12 room with that gorilla once he turned? That's really a no-brainer isnt it?
HA!
That's the way I see it, realistically, I wouldn't blame anybody for prioritizing their family. Lily's main priority is her father (and one assumes the reverse is also true), just like Lee's main priority is Clementine. However, they do actually care about the group (even Larry expresses concern over Clementine because he doesn't trust Lee). The difference is Kenny's family is his only priority, he doesn't come across as really caring about the group except as a tool to that end.
Every following playthrough, my despise for Kenny is growing rapidly. At this point I can't even force myself to side with him anymore. I just have to treat him like the trash he is.
And if all Kenny supporters keep claiming that we should act rationally then from the very first choice (Shawn/Duck) we should all always choose Shawn. Duck is a little boy, that is stupid as a bag of hammers (Kenny's words... seriously that guy...). Being the stupid brat that he is, he will probably die or put even more people in danger. He can't contribute to anyone.
Shawn however is the guy that saves you and Clementine. The guy that helps his father protect a family of a many members. The guy that gives you shelter and realizes the potential dangers of walkers roaming around. If we've got to be rational it doesn't make sense to save a little (annoying) kid if you can save a young adult.
yeah but he doesn't have to get up to kill one of them, plenty of people have been killed in the comics from walking past a lurker on the ground, and think about it, Lilly was right on top of him, and so is Lee is you choose to help he could have easily bitten one of them.
I understand you guys really have it out for Kenny and i can understand how some of his choices you guys cant agree with, but like Xarne said its a no-brainer
And my hatred for Kenny didn't begin with the Larry murder anyway. I never truly forgave Larry for punching me in the face. I was angry because I new that Larry's death had just fucked the group but hadn't wrote Kenny off at that point. It wasn't until he cowared in that stall that I realized what a truly, sorry peice-of-shit he was. Up till that point Me and Kenny were like "peas and carrots."
Now, no matter if you are arguing for or against Kenny, how can anyone (who didn't help him murder Larry) ever be able to trust him in a life or death situation? Thats a no-brainer!
Now will Kenny redeem himself during the next three episodes? I seriously doubt it...but we shall see.
(by the way, Larry was such an asshole that, even though he new about his heart condition, he helped maintain that fence while the totally un-selfish Kenny worked on what...oh yeah, the RV that was only for him and his family.)
I'm reminded of All Thats episode Miss Piddlin's Peas vs Miss Tula's Carrots
I haven't had a good opinion of Kenny since Episode 1, even though we were on good terms. He was a hypocrite even then, e.g. pouncing on Lily for not wanting to save their group when we learn from Katjaa that Kenny wasn't exactly a good samaritan either.
Despite that, I didn't totally turn against him until Episode 2, simply because everybody's hypocritical about stuff at some point. Episode 2 was when he went from hypocrite/coward to sheer dickishness. He was the first one to lay blame on others if things went bad (e.g. Ben), he suggested taking the Dairy by force (when the owners had invited them and offered to feed them), and to steal the supplies from the car (even though it'd screw over the owner if they were still alive).
Let's summarize his track record: He's the first member of the group to kill another member and advocates theft from other survivors. At that point it's pretty much a gamble (and probably a losing one) that he won't eventually rationalize screwing over the group itself as being okay. As Joleen says at the end "It's the living you've got to watch out for. The dead don't kill their own.", anybody who assumes that the lesson of Episode 2 only applies to the St. John's family is making a mistake in my view.
I honestly have the same opinion of Lilly's character as you, except I would liken most of Kenny's behavior to Larry's as opposed to her. Thinking on my REAL life, I have one daughter just like him - and as much as I love my mother, I don't think I would protect her as aggressively as I would my child (especially seeing as how she is a young Child, like Kenny and Duck). I can sympathize with Kenny too, because despite clearly tending for the group (risking his life to hunt for food, for example) he won't put them ahead of his family. That's why when the group decides to stay at the Motor Inn (possibly because Mark provides them with food which makes it a bit more "cushy"), he sees the writing on the wall (eventually the food is going to run out) and makes the decision to leave with his family. Lilly has her dad, but not any children/husband to care for. It's easier to be a bit more detached when the person you care for is more than capable of taking care of themselves (and we see this a bit with Kenny and Katjaa, with whom he is not shown to be so aggressive about protecting as Duck).
Also from my playthrough, I see Kenny as the kind of character that becomes easily accepting of someone, as long as that someone treats his family with the same regard. If you side with him in the Drug Store, and put the children's well being above all else in each situation, then he all but guarantees you have a place with him in his motor home. He talks about not leaving you behind often - it's clear that, if you treat him like family, he extends the same feelings toward you. And I don't see Lee forming that kind of relationship with anyone else in the group.
I can also see where people who, have up to this point, have sided with him over everything BUT the case in the meat locker, might see his behavior as inappropriate, but I REALLY think he should have another chance. I would be seriously upset with TTG if they don't provide some sort of reconciliation between Lee and Kenny (for those players who want it).
LOL, I actually did try to save Shawn in my playthrough - not because I valued him more than Duck, but because I figured that EVERYONE had come running when they heard Shawn scream, and that out of the other two adults were there (both of them being Duck's parents), that they would handle Duck while I tried to help Shawn. For a millisecond I regretted it, thinking that Duck was going to die - but then I turned out to be right.
If I had been alone, or I knew that I was the only one who could have responded in time, I probably would have saved Duck. Children ARE important - what's the point of surviving if we don't try to protect our future?
I don`t hate him because of that(people do get scared or some other stuff) i just don`t trust him anymore
well it depends on your choice in the meat locker. If you choose to help Lilly then Kenny does hide but if you help Kenny then he is the one who saves you with Danny while Lilly stays with Larry's body. Also if you choose Kenny Lilly doesn't try to help when Andy has you to the fence, she stares at you and looks down
On the other hand if you try to save a guy's life Kenny leaves you to die. What's his excuse? That you disagree with him once?
Lee, Clem, Doug and Lilly are my team of choice.
i will let Kenny, Katja, Duck, and Ben go their own way.
That way in a week when I stumble across their zombie forms i can laugh and make a vent hole in their heads.
valid point man but I just relate more to him, plus like i said we know Lilly's future so i guess that just rubs me the wrong way
Ben's kinda been an "empty uniform", not good, not bad. He just hasn't had the face time for me to have an opinion on him yet.
Only reason I'd be at all hesitant to boot Kenny's ass out is that Katjaa would almost certainly go with him, and she's the closest thing the group has to a medic. From a downright bastardly "hard choice, risk and reward" perspective, even Duck's a liability and expendable: the kid's loud and mentally slow (we see as much, even Kenny doesn't deny it), so I'd peg his chances of growing into a competent, self-sufficient adult as being... questionable. By contrast, Clem's quiet, intelligent, and aware of what's going on around her. When we first meet her she's already been living on her own for a few days, which is an encouraging sign that she won't be totally reliant on parental care as she grows up.