lets not forget...Lee didn't STOP Kenny from killing Larry, Lee only didn't agree with Kenny. With that in mind, how many of you so called Kenny supporters would still be all chummy with a RL friend who refused to help you in a life or death situation just because you didn't agree with him about something.
lets not forget...Lee didn't STOP Kenny from killing Larry, Lee only didn't agree with Kenny. With that in mind, how many of you so called Kenny supporters would still be all chummy with a RL friend who refused to help you in a life or death situation just because you didn't agree with him about something.
Example: You and two friends are at a bar. Friend A , B and you got in a verbal fight. Now a random fight breaks out that did not start with your group, but your group is now involved. A guy pulls a gun on you and is ready to fire....
Friend A runs and hides under the table.
Friend B rushs and knocks down the gunman.
When asked friend A says he was still mad at you.
when asked friend B says he was still mad at you, but he could not let you get shot.
lets not forget...Lee didn't STOP Kenny from killing Larry, Lee only didn't agree with Kenny. With that in mind, how many of you so called Kenny supporters would still be all chummy with a RL friend who refused to help you in a life or death situation just because you didn't agree with him about something.
I'm sorry, but since when has not agreeing with someone over murder of another who may or may not turn into a zombie that will kill you all been a 'just because'?
haha so grey. On one hand, killing Larry is all win for you. He knows what you did and he's a total jerk to you. There is literally nothing you can do within the 2 episodes to make him change his opinion of you.
But in his defense, Larry is by far the strongest member of that group (I goaded Kenny into punching him, Larry brushes it off and knocks Kenny right on his ass) he could without a doubt assumed command just on his physical presence. In the Duck situation, he at least presented options (none that were for the good of Duck) and didnt just grab the kid by the scruff and toss him back out.
Granted a 'might be bit' little boy and 50/50 chance on this brute turning are different scenarios but if you work in a group you have to at least be prepared to listen to others and consider their feelings/opinions on a subject.
Even it if turns into a zombie, what? He can bite Lilly or Lee, but he can't reach Kenny. They will kill the zombie, even if some of them is bitten. The problem is that this would've taken too much time, and we all had to focus on HIS family.
Example: You and two friends are at a bar. Friend A , B and you got in a verbal fight. Now a random fight breaks out that did not start with your group, but your group is now involved. A guy pulls a gun on you and is ready to fire....
Friend A runs and hides under the table.
Friend B rushs and knocks down the gunman.
When asked friend A says he was still mad at you.
when asked friend B says he was still mad at you, but he could not let you get shot.
Who would you pick?
Ah but the game alters how they react to you depending solely on whether you help kill Larry or not. If you help kill Larry then Lily not only doesn't help but even brings out Clem with her to watch you potentially get electrocuted to death. Also remember that she didn't want to come out to help you in ep 1 and she and Larry wanted to murder Duck over the possibility of him may have been bit. To be honest, they both act like right twats regardless.
Even it if turns into a zombie, what? He can bite Lilly or Lee, but he can't reach Kenny. They will kill the zombie, even if some of them is bitten. The problem is that this would've taken too much time, and we all had to focus on HIS family.
If some of them are bitten they DIE, full stop. Remember, the bites are like venom, they don't turn you but they do kill you. Larry was a 300lb he-man in life, as a zombie he would have been even stronger and dropping a salt-lick on a moving target is not easy. IF Larry had turned he would probably have wiped the lot of you out, that's why the situation is supposed to be so ambiguous.
haha so grey. On one hand, killing Larry is all win for you. He knows what you did and he's a total jerk to you. There is literally nothing you can do within the 2 episodes to make him change his opinion of you.
But in his defense, Larry is by far the strongest member of that group (I goaded Kenny into punching him, Larry brushes it off and knocks Kenny right on his ass) he could without a doubt assumed command just on his physical presence. In the Duck situation, he at least presented options (none that were for the good of Duck) and didnt just grab the kid by the scruff and toss him back out.
Granted a 'might be bit' little boy and 50/50 chance on this brute turning are different scenarios but if you work in a group you have to at least be prepared to listen to others and consider their feelings/opinions on a subject.
He was going to, remember he had the heart attack before the argument could be stop normally. He didn't suggest that Duck should be thrown out, he demanded it and he only held off on grabbing Duck and throwing him out because his family was in the way and even a big guy like him has to be careful of the odds (plus a knife in the gut topples anyone).
Even it if turns into a zombie, what? He can bite Lilly or Lee, but he can't reach Kenny. They will kill the zombie, even if some of them is bitten. The problem is that this would've taken too much time, and we all had to focus on HIS family.
Oh, so the potential loss of two other adults in the group is alright with you? Remember, if you get bit, you will die.
Also, with what weapons are they going to kill a Walker? They have NOTHING in there but the salt block, which is really only useful if the target is holding still, as it is hard to carry from how heavy it is.
Waiting a bit longer may be reasonable, but waiting until he turns is just stupid.
and still no one has explained how they planned on killing him after he came back
there are no sharp objects in the room, Larry is taller than everyone and you saw how long it took Kenny to manage the salt lick by himself...please
If he came back it would be 5 dead people in that room instead of 1
Jazzy, that's not true. You can say bitten for days, depending how strong you are. You will eventually die because of the fever and the virus and then you will turn. Larry isn't Neo from the Matrix, he won't jump right away and kill them like the witch from Left 4 Dead. The best he could do is to grab somebody (Lilly or Kenny) and bite them before they kill him.
My point is that even if that happened, Kenny wouldn't have been in danger at all cause wasn't helping.
P.S Easy. Lee keeps kicking that zombie around until he puts down, facing the ground. Then he jumps on its back and doesn't let it move until somebody drops a salt-lick on the zombies head.
Ah but the game alters how they react to you depending solely on whether you help kill Larry or not. If you help kill Larry then Lily not only doesn't help but even brings out Clem with her to watch you potentially get electrocuted to death. Also remember that she didn't want to come out to help you in ep 1 and she and Larry wanted to murder Duck over the possibility of him may have been bit. To be honest, they both act like right twats regardless.
In ep 1 they saw Kenny draw 20 zombie to them by saying "Hey are you friendly?" (I would let the idiot die)
Did Larry kill Duck? (no)
Larry stated his case and was ready to act.(Kenny out right killed Larry)
Jazzy, that's not true. You can say bitten for days, depending how strong you are. You will eventually die because of the fever and the virus and then you will turn. Larry isn't Neo from the Matrix, he won't jump right away and kill them like the witch from Left 4 Dead. The best he could do is to grab somebody (Lilly or Kenny) and bite them before they kill him.
My point is that even if that happened, Kenny wouldn't have been in danger at all cause wasn't helping.
Once bitten then you will die, not straight away but unless you amputate the limb that you were bitten on immediately then you die, so anyone Larry bites will die. The guy in the back of the truck does turn in minutes and jumps up and attacks straight away, and these characters don't know whether that length of time varies or what. And how would they kill him? The salt lick is incredibly heavy and not a weapon you can use in combat.
He was going to, remember he had the heart attack before the argument could be stop normally. He didn't suggest that Duck should be thrown out, he demanded it and he only held off on grabbing Duck and throwing him out because his family was in the way and even a big guy like him has to be careful of the odds (plus a knife in the gut topples anyone).
well they also could have bashed Duck's head in...at least he presented options (j/k). Like I always say, its very easy to do an armchair critique after multiple replays. I wont lie, my 1st playthrough and the tension of not knowing his fate, I killed him. Not because of Kenny, but because of Clem- brilliant plot device TTG created in her. If I was in there alone I'd have tried to help him (despite him being a total dick).
And the girl in the motor inn stayed bitten for hours. Apparently I can be a weapon, as long as you hold the target still.
Remember the cop in the forest? How slow he was? He was on the ground and if you weren't a scared professor I'm sure you could've kicked his ass from the forest to the highway.
So far Lee has killed and escaped a lot of zombies. They could've overpowered zombie Larry.
and still no one has explained how they planned on killing him after he came back
there are no sharp objects in the room, Larry is taller than everyone and you saw how long it took Kenny to manage the salt lick by himself...please
If he came back it would be 5 dead people in that room instead of 1
They do not just pop up and in one move kill everyone in the room. They dont even get up after they are knocked down. Kenny gets ready and when I say he is done drop the block. It takes what three mins. for someone to be dead. Just give me two and then drop the block.
wow...people are assuming that a zombie Larry would be a zombie powerhouse that is able to sneak attack despite being instead of a slow moving, severely weakend zombie with bad coordination that doesn't have the element of surprise...
I am starting to suspect that you Kenny supporters are juust trying to eat billy goats that are crossing bridges...
you say things like Larry would have turned into a red cape flying zombie of death...where is the evidence of this?...you also say things like, Kenny doesn't always make bad dicisions...when the fuck has he EVER made a decision that wasn't based on his own agenda?
I did see evidence that Larry was changing his opinion of me from outright hatred to simple caution...Kenny whent from I am his BFF to I am a peice of shit in a matter of minutes...
Larry helped the group, Kenny helps hisself...
Even Katja says that Kenny doesnt think right (or something along those lines)
He was going to, remember he had the heart attack before the argument could be stop normally. He didn't suggest that Duck should be thrown out, he demanded it and he only held off on grabbing Duck and throwing him out because his family was in the way and even a big guy like him has to be careful of the odds (plus a knife in the gut topples anyone).
I would also like to point out that I think Larry was all bark, but no bite. About the only time I really EVER see him take initiative was when he knocks Lee flat, and it's such a dirty, underhanded move I can't even really consider such an action to be in the "guise" of group safety, but rather from a personal grudge.
And as bad as I feel for Lilly at the loss of her Dad, I think it's a pretty big mark on her leadership ability that she was never able to reign her Dad's terrible behavior in. You even have a conversation about it in the Gazebo, where she pointedly tells you that she WON'T make her Dad behave, because that's who he is. Even in the meat locker, she meekly tells him to "calm down", which we know doesn't do anything to actually MAKE him calm down. And ultimately, it is Larry's behavior that leads to his heart attack.
wow...people are assuming that a zombie Larry would be a zombie powerhouse that is able to sneak attack despite being instead of a slow moving, severely weakend zombie with bad coordination that doesn't have the element of surprise...
I am starting to suspect that you Kenny supporters are juust trying to eat billy goats that are crossing bridges...
you say things like Larry would have turned into a red cape flying zombie of death...where is the evidence of this?...you also say things like, Kenny doesn't always make bad dicisions...when the fuck has he EVER made a decision that wasn't based on his own agenda?
I did see evidence that Larry was changing his opinion of me from outright hatred to simple caution...Kenny whent from I am his BFF to I am a peice of shit in a matter of minutes...
Larry helped the group, Kenny helps hisself...
Even Katja says that Kenny doesnt think right (or something along those lines)
Again, schroedinger's cat! Just because your Lee saw a change in character, doesn't mean that the rest of us did. Every character has the potential to be friend/foe, and the potential to change their status with every decision that Lee makes.
Besides, Larry doesn't need to be a fast walker in order to some damage. For one, Lily (and potenitally Lee, as well) is kneeling OVER him. All he has to do is manage to grab her or her clothing, and she won't be able to get away (I don't know what hat you are pulling the "severely weakened" out of, because every walker I've encountered seems to have gained MORE strength after having turned). That's one potential casualty right there. Then, please tell me EXACTLY how Kenny and Lee are going to stop Larry...are they going to drop salt lick after salt lick until they get lucky enough to hit the Walker's head at just the right angle to damage it, all the while it is moving (it is NOT going to hold perfectly still)? We already have two examples of how our physical strength is not enough to stop a walker dead (Sandra the baby sitter and Ben's companion). Also, getting in close enough to use the salt block / or or hands and feet puts you at potential risk of being nabbed, thus making you another potential casualty.
It's also not a matter of just avoiding Larry until we escape. He has the only potential tool to unscrew the a/c in his pocket. So, even if you managed to avoid him long enough to figure out that you need to get out using the a/c vent, and that it needs to be unscrewed, and then long enough to figure out that nobody but Larry has coins in his pocket, you are EVENTUALLY going to need to incapacitate Walker Larry in order to get at the change.
I haven't read the entire thread (it's pretty long), so I'm sorry if this leads to recursion. I agree with the sentiment of Fuck Kenny not because of his call (he made the right one, I just didn't want to be the bad guy), but because he later bragged that he was the one who made the tough calls.
After freezing during every major decision and only ever moving to save his son that one time, he has the balls to say that he makes the hard decisions? How does that even make sense? Shane made hard decisions and went the distance to keep others safe, Kenny does one thing right - with the tact of a capsized Mac Truck - and suddenly thinks he’s Savior of the Fucking Apocalypse? I’m gonna let them EAT YOU next chance I get.
if walkers are like traditional zombies they dont get stronger in death. merely they have no threshold for pain no sense of exhaustion if they find humans behind a barrier and dont get distracted they would beat on the barrier till their muscles decayed enough for them to collapse they have the same strength they did in life but infinite stamina
I haven't read the entire thread (it's pretty long), so I'm sorry if this leads to recursion. I agree with the sentiment of Fuck Kenny not because of his call (he made the right one, I just didn't want to be the bad guy), but because he later bragged that he was the one who made the tough calls.
After freezing during every major decision and only ever moving to save his son that one time, he has the balls to say that he makes the hard decisions? How does that even make sense? Shane made hard decisions and went the distance to keep others safe, Kenny does one thing right - with the tact of a capsized Mac Truck - and suddenly thinks he’s Savior of the Fucking Apocalypse? I’m gonna let them EAT YOU next chance I get.
I wouldn't call it bragging, per se. I don't think he's particularly PROUD to have made that decision. Remember that emotions are running high for the whole time that you are trying to escape from the St. John farms, and people are still coming down from the high levels of stress (and research shows that a persons cognition drops significantly under periods of stress). I take that as him responding in anger towards your ambivalence, as opposed to bragging that he makes hard decisions.
I wouldn't call it bragging, per se. I don't think he's particularly PROUD to have made that decision. Remember that emotions are running high for the whole time that you are trying to escape from the St. John farms, and people are still coming down from the high levels of stress (and research shows that a persons cognition drops significantly under periods of stress). I take that as him responding in anger towards your ambivalence, as opposed to bragging that he makes hard decisions.
Regardless of my word choice, I still think he's wrong. He only made the one hard choice and ran from everything else (eg. saving Shawn Greene)
if walkers are like traditional zombies they dont get stronger in death. merely they have no threshold for pain no sense of exhaustion if they find humans behind a barrier and dont get distracted they would beat on the barrier till their muscles decayed enough for them to collapse they have the same strength they did in life but infinite stamina
Lol, good point, but still to the same effect - a walker could keep a hold on you indefinitely, until you either force the hold to break or destroy their brain. Once one grabs you it's not a matter of "waiting it out". It's a matter of "GET AWAY THIS THING IS GOING TO EAT YOU!"
Regardless of my word choice, I still think he's wrong. He only made the one hard choice and ran from everything else (eg. saving Shawn Greene)
He's wrong, but to me, he would have been forgivable. Being wrong does NOT make him a bad man, just a bad leader. You should take the opportunity on the Walk back to camp to SHOW him why he's wrong, and give him the chance to learn from his mistake. Then you take over the group, and reign him in, and remind him how "wrong" he was whenever he gets out of line. Give him a chance to correct himself, and when he screws you over AGAIN, that is when you drop him like a hot rock. That is how you deal with someone like Kenny.
position curser over Larry and begin pressing A very fast
Kenny picks up saltlick (its pretty obvious that he can lift it)
keep pressing A, hit Y when prompted, Lee rolls to the left and super 300 lbs gorrila rampaging unstoppable Larry zombie falls to floor (thanks to gravity and momentum)
Kenny bashes zombie Larry's head in
Lee consoles a greiving Lilly
(or Lee could just repeatedly stomp Larries head in as he has already done with another zombie)
position curser over Larry and begin pressing A very fast
Kenny picks up saltlick (its pretty obvious that he can lift it)
keep pressing A, hit Y when prompted, Lee rolls to the left and super 300 lbs gorrila rampaging unstoppable Larry zombie falls to floor (thanks to gravity and momentum)
Kenny bashes zombie Larry's head in
Lee consoles a greiving Lilly
(or Lee could just repeatedly stomp Larries head in as he has already done with another zombie)
Yeah, Kenny can lift a salt block - there is nothing to show that he can hold it indefinitely, or even long enough for you to fiddle around with Larry. It's a shoddy plan, at best.
And kicking Larry's head in would involve getting close enough to Larry to do it, putting you at risk. Lee and the others are physically weaker than they were three months prior (when Lee "makes grape juice"). Again, another iffy plan that one should only resort to when all other options have been exhausted (yeah, at that point, it probably would have been a last resort, but the point is that you don't use a "last resort" plan if you have other options).
The thing about other plans is that any of them could have worked. The reason you only had two was because you chose to go with Kenny's plan or you had no idea about Kenny's plan and were taken by surprise.
I think the idea that there were always more options is sort of the point.
yes...everyone is weaker than they were three months ago...including Larry...so so that would make a zombie Larry what, unable to support his own weight? OK that was a joke, but seriously, maybe Larry turns so he is MAYBE able to bite ONE of them. As far as I know the zombies dont bite just to bite, they bite to eat so whoever he bites, if anyone, that will be the only one bit...two living can take a sole zombie while feeding
but I DO understand the rationel behind killing Larry. Kill Larry and there is NO way he can bite anyone thereby causing the loss of another member of the group...makes perfect sense. By that same rationel we should kill Kenny (an action that only causes us the loss of one member) before he "stupidness" lands us in another situation that jeapordizes everyone else. While we are at it we might as well kill, anyone else who could potential fuck up, including Duck, Clem, and yourself...see the problem with that rationel...
if we dont give EVERYONE the benifit of doubt then we should give it to NO ONE...and then we are no better then the St. Johns or bandits or, for that matter, the zombies.
It's simple, really. Kenny doesn't care about Clementine, Lee or Lilly. If Lee tries to save Larry, it is his choice! If Kenny is afraid, he can stay back and watch how things turn out. If any of them gets bitten I guess they can sacrifice themselves and hold down zombie Larry for the others to finish it.
In my opinion they would've revived Larry because I already said I believe he was still alive.
The problem is that Kenny doesn't want you to spend time on anything else but his family. He is a selfish, egocentric coward who never does ANYTHING for the group. Scumbags like him need to obey until they grow the balls to do something. In cases of such stress you leave people like Lee and Rick Grimes to deal with the situation. You don't interfere and impose your egoism on others. Kenny murdered Larry in the most gruesome way, disregarding Lilly, Clem and Lee. He then leaves you to die, showing that he is not only a spineless excuse of a man, but also a dumb son of a bitch. Apparently he can't save his wife and son on his own, why would he let you die after killing the father of the only other possible person who can help him? Kenny never thinks, he only acts on his spite.
My Lee would try his best to see him leave or die. Betrayal is one of the few things I'm unwilling to forgive.
yes...everyone is weaker than they were three months ago...including Larry...so so that would make a zombie Larry what, unable to support his own weight? OK that was a joke, but seriously, maybe Larry turns so he is MAYBE able to bite ONE of them. As far as I know the zombies dont bite just to bite, they bite to eat so whoever he bites, if anyone, that will be the only one bit...two living can take a sole zombie while feeding
but I DO understand the rationel behind killing Larry. Kill Larry and there is NO way he can bite anyone thereby causing the loss of another member of the group...makes perfect sense. By that same rationel we should kill Kenny (an action that only causes us the loss of one member) before he "stupidness" lands us in another situation that jeapordizes everyone else. While we are at it we might as well kill, anyone else who could potential fuck up, including Duck, Clem, and yourself...see the problem with that rationel...
if we dont give EVERYONE the benifit of doubt then we should give it to NO ONE...and then we are no better then the St. Johns or bandits or, for that matter, the zombies.
I think you are overgeneralizing to suit your opinion. By your way of thinking, EVERYONE deserves a second chance despite the obvious danger (such as the St. John's, the bandits, Jolene), or EVERYONE should be killed because they are a potential threat (and I mean EVERYONE, including Clementine). This doesn't take into account that each specific situation requires a risk assessment to determine whether or not you are truly in any danger.
The situation in the meat locker is unique from any other situation that you have been in, and each one of us is going to approach our risk assessment from a unique perspective. Basically you can see that the potential benefits of attempting to revive Larry outweigh the risks, or vice versa. It doesn't suit debate though to devolve our opinions to that of animals, in which everything is a threat, or nothing is.
The thing about other plans is that any of them could have worked. The reason you only had two was because you chose to go with Kenny's plan or you had no idea about Kenny's plan and were taken by surprise.
I think the idea that there were always more options is sort of the point.
The point I think that Kenny was trying to make that any other plan could have worked, but they also have the same potential to backfire spectacularly, and the fact that they could possibly NOT work was too much risk for them to take.
His plan has a guaranteed outcome, even though it is not the most favorable one (one in which Larry also gets to live).
Again, schroedinger's cat! Just because your Lee saw a change in character, doesn't mean that the rest of us did. Every character has the potential to be friend/foe, and the potential to change their status with every decision that Lee makes.
Besides, Larry doesn't need to be a fast walker in order to some damage. For one, Lily (and potenitally Lee, as well) is kneeling OVER him. All he has to do is manage to grab her or her clothing, and she won't be able to get away (I don't know what hat you are pulling the "severely weakened" out of, because every walker I've encountered seems to have gained MORE strength after having turned). That's one potential casualty right there. Then, please tell me EXACTLY how Kenny and Lee are going to stop Larry...are they going to drop salt lick after salt lick until they get lucky enough to hit the Walker's head at just the right angle to damage it, all the while it is moving (it is NOT going to hold perfectly still)? We already have two examples of how our physical strength is not enough to stop a walker dead (Sandra the baby sitter and Ben's companion). Also, getting in close enough to use the salt block / or or hands and feet puts you at potential risk of being nabbed, thus making you another potential casualty.
It's also not a matter of just avoiding Larry until we escape. He has the only potential tool to unscrew the a/c in his pocket. So, even if you managed to avoid him long enough to figure out that you need to get out using the a/c vent, and that it needs to be unscrewed, and then long enough to figure out that nobody but Larry has coins in his pocket, you are EVENTUALLY going to need to incapacitate Walker Larry in order to get at the change.
Trying to use the fact that Larry has the only potential tool to unscrew the air conditioner as a justification for the act runs into the same metagaming issue you tend to accuse others of: There's no way to know that until after Kenny kills him. Larry collapses the instant you try to examine the A/C. Lee doesn't even realize the multi-tool is missing, nor does he have a chance to question anyone if they have something that can be used as a screwdriver until after the event in question.
Walkers also don't reanimate without some warning, both the cop at the beginning and the person in the pickup make fairly distinct noises before they become "active".
The point I think that Kenny was trying to make that any other plan could have worked, but they also have the same potential to backfire spectacularly, and the fact that they could possibly NOT work was too much risk for them to take.
His plan has a guaranteed outcome, even though it is not the most favorable one (one in which Larry also gets to live).
Oh no, it was a favorable outcome. At least to me. You don't screw over good guy Lee. He doesn't bite back often, but when he does... oh man is revenge sweet.
Oh no, it was a favorable outcome. At least to me. You don't screw over good guy Lee. He doesn't bite back often, but when he does... oh man is revenge sweet.
So Lee's the puppetmaster and Kenny is the scissors?
So Lee's the puppetmaster and Kenny is the scissors?
Works for me. I get Kenny on my side, and when he takes over the group, I just have him as a figurehead with no actual power in my behind the scenes leetatorship.
Trying to use the fact that Larry has the only potential tool to unscrew the air conditioner as a justification for the act runs into the same metagaming issue you tend to accuse others of: There's no way to know that until after Kenny kills him. Larry collapses the instant you try to examine the A/C. Lee doesn't even realize the multi-tool is missing, nor does he have a chance to question anyone if they have something that can be used as a screwdriver until after the event in question.
Walkers also don't reanimate without some warning, both the cop at the beginning and the person in the pickup make fairly distinct noises before they become "active".
I wasn't really metagaming, but tying into my other points, that if you can't immediately disable walker Larry, there is no way that you would be able to indefinitely out-manuever him, and the longer you try, the less likely it is to get away. how long do you think YOU would last in that specific situation, with no weapon to protect you, other than a salt lick, which slows down your movements, ties up your hands, and isn't really useful against a moving Walker.
The ENTIRE POINT I was trying to make was that, even IF you were able to continually escape, you would eventually realize that there was no way out of the room, and that you would eventually have to kill the Walker, which is NOW next to impossible without getting hurt, if not killed and bitten.
@ sisterofshane I was being sarcastic. I am not saying that anyone needs a second chance or no chance...I am saying we do NOT kill a human (who hasn't turned) unless dirctly attacked...period. We DONT make assumptions. Suppose in the comming episodes the group is attacked by zombies and in the fight someone (anyone, Clem, Duck, Katja, Kenny, Yourself) goes tumbling down a hill and into some barbed wire...after the action has died down do we doctor that persons wounds as best we can or do we ASSUME some of that shredded skin could be from a zombie bite and wait for Kenn's saltlick + 5 to come out? The point is that we DONT just decide to smack a brain because its convienient.
Look at Kenny's face after killing Larry, even he knows it was a mistake.
Comments
Example: You and two friends are at a bar. Friend A , B and you got in a verbal fight. Now a random fight breaks out that did not start with your group, but your group is now involved. A guy pulls a gun on you and is ready to fire....
Friend A runs and hides under the table.
Friend B rushs and knocks down the gunman.
When asked friend A says he was still mad at you.
when asked friend B says he was still mad at you, but he could not let you get shot.
Who would you pick?
I'm sorry, but since when has not agreeing with someone over murder of another who may or may not turn into a zombie that will kill you all been a 'just because'?
But in his defense, Larry is by far the strongest member of that group (I goaded Kenny into punching him, Larry brushes it off and knocks Kenny right on his ass) he could without a doubt assumed command just on his physical presence. In the Duck situation, he at least presented options (none that were for the good of Duck) and didnt just grab the kid by the scruff and toss him back out.
Granted a 'might be bit' little boy and 50/50 chance on this brute turning are different scenarios but if you work in a group you have to at least be prepared to listen to others and consider their feelings/opinions on a subject.
Ah but the game alters how they react to you depending solely on whether you help kill Larry or not. If you help kill Larry then Lily not only doesn't help but even brings out Clem with her to watch you potentially get electrocuted to death. Also remember that she didn't want to come out to help you in ep 1 and she and Larry wanted to murder Duck over the possibility of him may have been bit. To be honest, they both act like right twats regardless.
If some of them are bitten they DIE, full stop. Remember, the bites are like venom, they don't turn you but they do kill you. Larry was a 300lb he-man in life, as a zombie he would have been even stronger and dropping a salt-lick on a moving target is not easy. IF Larry had turned he would probably have wiped the lot of you out, that's why the situation is supposed to be so ambiguous.
He was going to, remember he had the heart attack before the argument could be stop normally. He didn't suggest that Duck should be thrown out, he demanded it and he only held off on grabbing Duck and throwing him out because his family was in the way and even a big guy like him has to be careful of the odds (plus a knife in the gut topples anyone).
Oh, so the potential loss of two other adults in the group is alright with you? Remember, if you get bit, you will die.
Also, with what weapons are they going to kill a Walker? They have NOTHING in there but the salt block, which is really only useful if the target is holding still, as it is hard to carry from how heavy it is.
Waiting a bit longer may be reasonable, but waiting until he turns is just stupid.
there are no sharp objects in the room, Larry is taller than everyone and you saw how long it took Kenny to manage the salt lick by himself...please
If he came back it would be 5 dead people in that room instead of 1
My point is that even if that happened, Kenny wouldn't have been in danger at all cause wasn't helping.
P.S Easy. Lee keeps kicking that zombie around until he puts down, facing the ground. Then he jumps on its back and doesn't let it move until somebody drops a salt-lick on the zombies head.
In ep 1 they saw Kenny draw 20 zombie to them by saying "Hey are you friendly?" (I would let the idiot die)
Did Larry kill Duck? (no)
Larry stated his case and was ready to act.(Kenny out right killed Larry)
Once bitten then you will die, not straight away but unless you amputate the limb that you were bitten on immediately then you die, so anyone Larry bites will die. The guy in the back of the truck does turn in minutes and jumps up and attacks straight away, and these characters don't know whether that length of time varies or what. And how would they kill him? The salt lick is incredibly heavy and not a weapon you can use in combat.
well they also could have bashed Duck's head in...at least he presented options (j/k). Like I always say, its very easy to do an armchair critique after multiple replays. I wont lie, my 1st playthrough and the tension of not knowing his fate, I killed him. Not because of Kenny, but because of Clem- brilliant plot device TTG created in her. If I was in there alone I'd have tried to help him (despite him being a total dick).
Remember the cop in the forest? How slow he was? He was on the ground and if you weren't a scared professor I'm sure you could've kicked his ass from the forest to the highway.
So far Lee has killed and escaped a lot of zombies. They could've overpowered zombie Larry.
They do not just pop up and in one move kill everyone in the room. They dont even get up after they are knocked down. Kenny gets ready and when I say he is done drop the block. It takes what three mins. for someone to be dead. Just give me two and then drop the block.
I am starting to suspect that you Kenny supporters are juust trying to eat billy goats that are crossing bridges...
you say things like Larry would have turned into a red cape flying zombie of death...where is the evidence of this?...you also say things like, Kenny doesn't always make bad dicisions...when the fuck has he EVER made a decision that wasn't based on his own agenda?
I did see evidence that Larry was changing his opinion of me from outright hatred to simple caution...Kenny whent from I am his BFF to I am a peice of shit in a matter of minutes...
Larry helped the group, Kenny helps hisself...
Even Katja says that Kenny doesnt think right (or something along those lines)
I would also like to point out that I think Larry was all bark, but no bite. About the only time I really EVER see him take initiative was when he knocks Lee flat, and it's such a dirty, underhanded move I can't even really consider such an action to be in the "guise" of group safety, but rather from a personal grudge.
And as bad as I feel for Lilly at the loss of her Dad, I think it's a pretty big mark on her leadership ability that she was never able to reign her Dad's terrible behavior in. You even have a conversation about it in the Gazebo, where she pointedly tells you that she WON'T make her Dad behave, because that's who he is. Even in the meat locker, she meekly tells him to "calm down", which we know doesn't do anything to actually MAKE him calm down. And ultimately, it is Larry's behavior that leads to his heart attack.
Again, schroedinger's cat! Just because your Lee saw a change in character, doesn't mean that the rest of us did. Every character has the potential to be friend/foe, and the potential to change their status with every decision that Lee makes.
Besides, Larry doesn't need to be a fast walker in order to some damage. For one, Lily (and potenitally Lee, as well) is kneeling OVER him. All he has to do is manage to grab her or her clothing, and she won't be able to get away (I don't know what hat you are pulling the "severely weakened" out of, because every walker I've encountered seems to have gained MORE strength after having turned). That's one potential casualty right there. Then, please tell me EXACTLY how Kenny and Lee are going to stop Larry...are they going to drop salt lick after salt lick until they get lucky enough to hit the Walker's head at just the right angle to damage it, all the while it is moving (it is NOT going to hold perfectly still)? We already have two examples of how our physical strength is not enough to stop a walker dead (Sandra the baby sitter and Ben's companion). Also, getting in close enough to use the salt block / or or hands and feet puts you at potential risk of being nabbed, thus making you another potential casualty.
It's also not a matter of just avoiding Larry until we escape. He has the only potential tool to unscrew the a/c in his pocket. So, even if you managed to avoid him long enough to figure out that you need to get out using the a/c vent, and that it needs to be unscrewed, and then long enough to figure out that nobody but Larry has coins in his pocket, you are EVENTUALLY going to need to incapacitate Walker Larry in order to get at the change.
After freezing during every major decision and only ever moving to save his son that one time, he has the balls to say that he makes the hard decisions? How does that even make sense? Shane made hard decisions and went the distance to keep others safe, Kenny does one thing right - with the tact of a capsized Mac Truck - and suddenly thinks he’s Savior of the Fucking Apocalypse? I’m gonna let them EAT YOU next chance I get.
I wouldn't call it bragging, per se. I don't think he's particularly PROUD to have made that decision. Remember that emotions are running high for the whole time that you are trying to escape from the St. John farms, and people are still coming down from the high levels of stress (and research shows that a persons cognition drops significantly under periods of stress). I take that as him responding in anger towards your ambivalence, as opposed to bragging that he makes hard decisions.
Regardless of my word choice, I still think he's wrong. He only made the one hard choice and ran from everything else (eg. saving Shawn Greene)
Lol, good point, but still to the same effect - a walker could keep a hold on you indefinitely, until you either force the hold to break or destroy their brain. Once one grabs you it's not a matter of "waiting it out". It's a matter of "GET AWAY THIS THING IS GOING TO EAT YOU!"
He's wrong, but to me, he would have been forgivable. Being wrong does NOT make him a bad man, just a bad leader. You should take the opportunity on the Walk back to camp to SHOW him why he's wrong, and give him the chance to learn from his mistake. Then you take over the group, and reign him in, and remind him how "wrong" he was whenever he gets out of line. Give him a chance to correct himself, and when he screws you over AGAIN, that is when you drop him like a hot rock. That is how you deal with someone like Kenny.
position curser over Larry and begin pressing A very fast
Kenny picks up saltlick (its pretty obvious that he can lift it)
keep pressing A, hit Y when prompted, Lee rolls to the left and super 300 lbs gorrila rampaging unstoppable Larry zombie falls to floor (thanks to gravity and momentum)
Kenny bashes zombie Larry's head in
Lee consoles a greiving Lilly
(or Lee could just repeatedly stomp Larries head in as he has already done with another zombie)
Yeah, Kenny can lift a salt block - there is nothing to show that he can hold it indefinitely, or even long enough for you to fiddle around with Larry. It's a shoddy plan, at best.
And kicking Larry's head in would involve getting close enough to Larry to do it, putting you at risk. Lee and the others are physically weaker than they were three months prior (when Lee "makes grape juice"). Again, another iffy plan that one should only resort to when all other options have been exhausted (yeah, at that point, it probably would have been a last resort, but the point is that you don't use a "last resort" plan if you have other options).
I think the idea that there were always more options is sort of the point.
but I DO understand the rationel behind killing Larry. Kill Larry and there is NO way he can bite anyone thereby causing the loss of another member of the group...makes perfect sense. By that same rationel we should kill Kenny (an action that only causes us the loss of one member) before he "stupidness" lands us in another situation that jeapordizes everyone else. While we are at it we might as well kill, anyone else who could potential fuck up, including Duck, Clem, and yourself...see the problem with that rationel...
if we dont give EVERYONE the benifit of doubt then we should give it to NO ONE...and then we are no better then the St. Johns or bandits or, for that matter, the zombies.
In my opinion they would've revived Larry because I already said I believe he was still alive.
The problem is that Kenny doesn't want you to spend time on anything else but his family. He is a selfish, egocentric coward who never does ANYTHING for the group. Scumbags like him need to obey until they grow the balls to do something. In cases of such stress you leave people like Lee and Rick Grimes to deal with the situation. You don't interfere and impose your egoism on others. Kenny murdered Larry in the most gruesome way, disregarding Lilly, Clem and Lee. He then leaves you to die, showing that he is not only a spineless excuse of a man, but also a dumb son of a bitch. Apparently he can't save his wife and son on his own, why would he let you die after killing the father of the only other possible person who can help him? Kenny never thinks, he only acts on his spite.
My Lee would try his best to see him leave or die. Betrayal is one of the few things I'm unwilling to forgive.
I think you are overgeneralizing to suit your opinion. By your way of thinking, EVERYONE deserves a second chance despite the obvious danger (such as the St. John's, the bandits, Jolene), or EVERYONE should be killed because they are a potential threat (and I mean EVERYONE, including Clementine). This doesn't take into account that each specific situation requires a risk assessment to determine whether or not you are truly in any danger.
The situation in the meat locker is unique from any other situation that you have been in, and each one of us is going to approach our risk assessment from a unique perspective. Basically you can see that the potential benefits of attempting to revive Larry outweigh the risks, or vice versa. It doesn't suit debate though to devolve our opinions to that of animals, in which everything is a threat, or nothing is.
The point I think that Kenny was trying to make that any other plan could have worked, but they also have the same potential to backfire spectacularly, and the fact that they could possibly NOT work was too much risk for them to take.
His plan has a guaranteed outcome, even though it is not the most favorable one (one in which Larry also gets to live).
Trying to use the fact that Larry has the only potential tool to unscrew the air conditioner as a justification for the act runs into the same metagaming issue you tend to accuse others of: There's no way to know that until after Kenny kills him. Larry collapses the instant you try to examine the A/C. Lee doesn't even realize the multi-tool is missing, nor does he have a chance to question anyone if they have something that can be used as a screwdriver until after the event in question.
Walkers also don't reanimate without some warning, both the cop at the beginning and the person in the pickup make fairly distinct noises before they become "active".
Oh no, it was a favorable outcome. At least to me. You don't screw over good guy Lee. He doesn't bite back often, but when he does... oh man is revenge sweet.
So Lee's the puppetmaster and Kenny is the scissors?
Works for me. I get Kenny on my side, and when he takes over the group, I just have him as a figurehead with no actual power in my behind the scenes leetatorship.
For the greater good, you see.
I wasn't really metagaming, but tying into my other points, that if you can't immediately disable walker Larry, there is no way that you would be able to indefinitely out-manuever him, and the longer you try, the less likely it is to get away. how long do you think YOU would last in that specific situation, with no weapon to protect you, other than a salt lick, which slows down your movements, ties up your hands, and isn't really useful against a moving Walker.
The ENTIRE POINT I was trying to make was that, even IF you were able to continually escape, you would eventually realize that there was no way out of the room, and that you would eventually have to kill the Walker, which is NOW next to impossible without getting hurt, if not killed and bitten.
Look at Kenny's face after killing Larry, even he knows it was a mistake.