It was almost a confession when Ben screamed "I'm sorry!" on the RV and began bargaining with Lilly. Lilly grills Ben solo when Doug is with you, but she immediately turns to Carley if she is there. Why? Because Lilly didn't like her. That is apparent from the meeting in the drug store where Lilly freaks out on Carley for saving you outside. Lilly was basing her accusations on who she hated, but also taking into account who she could get away with blaming. As much as she probably wanted Kenny gone, she knew she couldn't get away with that because Kenny stood to lose too much if it were him stealing and not someone else.
She flat out says to Ben when the RV stops "You have until that walker is dealt with to tell me it was Carley!" I believe she was trying to frame Carley because not only did they hate each other, Carley doesn't want her in charge. Carley would have been the easiest (or second easiest) because she doesn't have attatchments like Lee and Clem, or Kenny and his family. The only person who sticks up for Carley is Lee, and Ben to an extent but his defense is pretty weak. I think that after losing the motor inn, she couldn't keep her rage down any longer and wanted to take her wrath out on someone she could get away with, like Carley or Ben. Doug stays neutral through almost the entire game, so she couldn't come down on him without immediately looking like the bad guy (which she was, depending on your point of view)
tl;dr Lilly only accused the people she hated and could get away with because her stress finally got to her and she had no real power in the group anymore.
Even as compassionately as I play this game I think that sometimes the time is ripe for action. I couldn't care less for the way the kid or Carley felt cause one of them almost got us killed. The one who was innocent should've spoken up, there was no reason for her/him to be afraid. To me this looked as one of the many cheap tricks people will do to fool you. This is a cruel world now, if you're too weak to withstand Lilly's interrogation, how are you going to survive out there? You know the point of interrogation is to scare you enough so you can give the information you hold, not feel good about it.
Did somebody have to die for you to realize that the bandit attack was a serious situation?
Rock114, or maybe... just maybe, she wanted to find out who the traitor was? It was either Carley or Ben, she didn't blame the others because it was obvious it wasn't them. It's not like there were 20 people in that RV. I don't think that this has to do anything with hate or some sort of long planning as you somehow make it sound. You know when you're wondering who's the traitor - the sissy Ben or the cute little Carley, it kinda raises your suspicion when all of us sudden the cute little Carley starts talking back pretending to be very tough.
It makes much more sense for her to be dealing with the bandits than Ben.
I actually don't want to lose Kenny until near the end of episode 5 without him it would be pretty lonely everyone else is a stranger hes the last besides Clem and Lee from the original group. I'd feel pretty bad if I lost him as well
I don't see the need for analyzing Carley's motivations for her behavior at Lily's inquisition. Lily's in the books, a canon character that lives to shoot zombies another day. A character Lee's grown close too needs to die so that we have that emotional experience the publishers want us to have. Carley/Doug was going to die no matter what, that was apparent from the jump. If anything was priming us for that it is the screen shot for Chapter 1, with Lee and Carley looking on at Clem with worry.
But we deal with what's given. I agree w/ sisterofshane, that Ben's deal helped delay the attack, but if you take that to its logical conclusion, they would never have attacked. Even after the supplies ran out, they would have just moved on, unless the bandits turned into cannibals or something.
RE: Carley, the "battery situation" says nothing about her intelligence. We are to assume since she's a paid journalist she at least has a four year degree from some college. I think that was supposed to endear her to us.
But it was all false drama. There's an opportunity for us to draw an inference, through Lee's questioning of Ben that Ben was the guy. Lee didn't have the balls to move on that? Also, why didn't the bandits out Ben when they had the chance? They were there for payback. Why didn't Ben just turn up dead?
One problem with this line - they were attacking. And they stopped. In my game, Doug blatantly states this fact, and Lee can comment on it if you investigate the outside wall just before you find the grate. Ben's deal had LITERALLY stopped the attacks.
Never really liked Kenny or Lilly but there wasn't really a neither choice most of the time. I wish I could've just left with Glenn because he was awesome.
One problem with this line - they were attacking. And they stopped. In my game, Doug blatantly states this fact, and Lee can comment on it if you investigate the outside wall just before you find the grate. Ben's deal had LITERALLY stopped the attacks.
See I thought that was a much better angle to go with for the reason behind the stealing. In ben's backwards kind of way he though by giving the bandits smalls supplies here and there he could keep them away from the group and thus keep them safe. If they went with this I would've had more respect for him, rather than "They said they had one of my class mates."
It would have beggared belief to have Ben cook up such a plan to save the group from being slaughtered.
@sisterofshane: Should probably clarify that to mean they never would have attacked after the deal was on. It makes no sense not to benefit from their deal, nor to waste resources on going after them when they were bleeding them slowly. Makes even less sense to attack when they have nothing to gain from it. What are they worried about their rep on the streets?
Even as compassionately as I play this game I think that sometimes the time is ripe for action. I couldn't care less for the way the kid or Carley felt cause one of them almost got us killed. The one who was innocent should've spoken up, there was no reason for her/him to be afraid. To me this looked as one of the many cheap tricks people will do to fool you. This is a cruel world now, if you're too weak to withstand Lilly's interrogation, how are you going to survive out there? You know the point of interrogation is to scare you enough so you can give the information you hold, not feel good about it.
Did somebody have to die for you to realize that the bandit attack was a serious situation?
Rock114, or maybe... just maybe, she wanted to find out who the traitor was? It was either Carley or Ben, she didn't blame the others because it was obvious it wasn't them. It's not like there were 20 people in that RV. I don't think that this has to do anything with hate or some sort of long planning as you somehow make it sound. You know when you're wondering who's the traitor - the sissy Ben or the cute little Carley, it kinda raises your suspicion when all of us sudden the cute little Carley starts talking back pretending to be very tough.
It makes much more sense for her to be dealing with the bandits than Ben.
Probably, I just say what's on my mind. But she and carley did hate each other, which is why she aimed directly at Carley while Doug pulled himself into her line of fire. I just can't see Carley dealing with the bandits, and I do think Lilly's prior feelings toward Carley had something to do with her blaming her first.
Considering it was Kenny that was pushing to leave, wouldn't he be the first suspect? He could have been squirreling supplies for his eminent departure, while making their situation appear more bleak, thereby forcing departure. Neither Ben nor Carly were the most likely suspects. Lilly herself, in an effort to rid herself of threats and reinstate control over the group, was a better suspect than either Ben or Carley.
Considering it was Kenny that was pushing to leave, wouldn't he be the first suspect? He could have been squirreling supplies for his eminent departure, while making their situation appear more bleak, thereby forcing departure. Neither Ben nor Carly were the most likely suspects. Lilly herself, in an effort to rid herself of threats and reinstate control over the group, was a better suspect than either Ben or Carley.
Totally, right? I seriously thought that she was going to go after Lee, and that would be the consequence of having sided with Kenny in the meat locker. I mean, think about it. You have an individual that you KNOW is a convicted murderer. You give him your "lead" (broken flashlight), warning him that if he comes up empty that you will just assume that he did it. Magically, he comes up with the missing meds, and (in my playthrough, at least) is unwilling to place the blame on anyone. Oh yeah, and this person never got along with your Dad and held you back while someone else dropped a salt lick on his head. Pretty sure if I was Lilly, I would have thought anybody BUT Carley/Doug or Ben. But no, Lilly, let's blame Ben, and accuse him of being a plant from the bandits! They staged an elaborate scene in the woods in which two out of three of them DIED just to put a mole in our ranks so that they could get access to our med supply!
Considering it was Kenny that was pushing to leave, wouldn't he be the first suspect? He could have been squirreling supplies for his eminent departure, while making their situation appear more bleak, thereby forcing departure. Neither Ben nor Carly were the most likely suspects. Lilly herself, in an effort to rid herself of threats and reinstate control over the group, was a better suspect than either Ben or Carley.
How come? So she's a suspect but she tells Lee to investigate? I've always trusted Lilly with my life, so I knew it wasn't her. Kenny, he was the one to complain we risked our necks for food and supplies. He had a son and wife to take care. I didn't think it was him, there was just no sense in that.
That left me with Carley and Ben. As I said at first Ben appeared too scared and stupid, while the sudden Carley defensive reaction kinda changed my perception of her. It all started looking kinda shady because Lilly was right. She never talked about her past, she never participated in any major decisions and she always kept the good little girl appearance. For a moment I was like... has this girl been trying to flirt with me just to fool me. I was stricken that it was her.
In the end of course it turns out it wasn't but Lilly's theory was sound. Of course, it also came to who I was trusting more Lilly or Carley. I suspected that Telltale might force me to choose between those to, so obviously I went with Lilly. She might be a bit on the edge, but I knew she had our well-being at heart... and all of a sudden I wasn't sure of Carley at all.
I kinda believe it would've been cooler of it if then went with Carley as a traitor instead of Ben. It would've been like a wet slap to all her fans who were attracted by her cuteness. Instead they went with "Let's leave Carley as useless as it is".
To me it kinda looked like Carley thought she was save just because she was flirting with Lee.
Sisterofshane, you have the option "it was me". If you say it, Lilly states that even thought you though you've done bad things she knows it can't be you because you have Clem in your life now. I guess you're being protective of Clem as I am right?
I guess in everybody's saves it just feels completely different, although the sequence is basically the same.
How come? So she's a suspect but she tells Lee to investigate? I've always trusted Lilly with my life, so I knew it wasn't her.
It's kind of hard to argue with blind faith, regardless of subject. The bandits would have had to make initial contact with whomever they were making a deal with, which really should have made it less likely to be Ben as his absence would be questioned. Considering Lilly's lack of trust, how was that Ben accessed supplies in her custody?
It really doesn't matter whether you sided with Lilly or not in the meat locker, Lilly's attitude toward Lee during the investigation, interrogation and execution play out the same.
It's kind of hard to argue with blind faith, regardless of subject. The bandits would have had to make initial contact with whomever they were making a deal with, which really should have made it less likely to be Ben as his absence would be questioned. Considering Lilly's lack of trust, how was that Ben accessed supplies in her custody?
It really doesn't matter whether you sided with Lilly or not in the meat locker, Lilly's attitude toward Lee during the investigation, interrogation and execution play out the same.
That's not true. I've seen videos of different playthroughs than mine and it's not the same.
Plus let's remember who were the two characters that were left at the motor inn during the events of ep.2?
None of them is really taking sides in any important decisions. They seem most shady of all
I wouldn't call it blind faith, it's logic. In my playthrough I've never had any reason to suspect Lilly.
When there is a traitor you always go for the person you know the least, it's always that way.
That's not true. I've seen videos of different playthroughs than mine and it's not the same.
I've played both and there's one distinct line of dialogue difference when Kenny and Lilly are arguing and you choose the "stop this shit" option. Depending on who Lee helped in Ep. 2, Lee will say that person has valid concerns. That's it.
Plus let's remember who were the two characters that were left at the motor inn during the events of ep.2?
You mean the first day they learned the bandits existed, back when the bandits were still demanding food from the farm? Ben's first day with the group? I somehow don't see Carley, Ben and the bandits hashing out a master plan that day.
I've played both and there's one distinct line of dialogue difference when Kenny and Lilly are arguing and you choose the "stop this shit" option. Depending on who Lee helped in Ep. 2, Lee will say that person has valid concerns. That's it.
You mean the first day they learned the bandits existed, back when the bandits were still demanding food from the farm? Ben's first day with the group? I somehow don't see Carley, Ben and the bandits hashing out a master plan that day.
And why not? What if they've been attacked while all the rest were at the Saint Jones' farm? That could've been the terms for letting both of them live.
It's not that far-fetched.
My course of logic in those Lilly/Carley scenes were that it couldn't be Lilly, me nor Kenny and Katjaa. Kenny and Katjaa was far too focus on Duck to get involved in something like this, plus Kenny is a bit spineless in my opinion so he would totally ask for Lee's permission/approval/support if something like that happened. Lilly on the other hand was the one that started the hunt for the traitor so it couldn't have been her. She did not hate Carley or Ben so accusing them of being traitors when she was in fact the one... well that is far-fetched. If there was a person who Lilly hated, that was Kenny.
The fact that she didn't go for Kenny in that argument means to me that she didn't do it because of spite. She was indeed looking for the traitor and wanted to protect the group.
P.S It couldn't be Lee as well because as she said, he had to take care of Clem. I do agree that children change everything!
Sisterofshane, it's really funny that I consider the exact opposite to be the logical development of this situation
And why not? What if they've been attacked while all the rest were at the Saint Jones' farm? That could've been the terms for letting both of them live.
It's not that far-fetched.
Not plausible, the bandits were busy attacking the diary and shooting Mark.
My course of logic in those Lilly/Carley scenes were that it couldn't be Lilly, me nor Kenny and Katjaa. Kenny and Katjaa was far too focus on Duck to get involved in something like this, plus Kenny is a bit spineless in my opinion...
She did not hate Carley or Ben so accusing them of being traitors when she was in fact the one... well that is far-fetched. If there was a person who Lilly hated, that was Kenny...
If you consider Kenny too spineless, why would Ben be a suspect? It's much more likely that either Katjaa or Kenny were guilty because of Duck and wanting to protect him. Further, Lilly made it very clear she neither liked nor trusted either Ben or Carley. As for going after Kenny, that would have been too obvious.
If not having a spine eliminates you from the running, the only people it could have been were Lilly, Lee, Kenny, Carley, or Doug. I didn't list Ben, because he doesn't meet that criteria. Carley has been nothing but loyal to the group, and isn't trying to play the "good girl" and stay on everyone's good side in my playthrough. She comes down on both Kenny and Lilly when you bring Ben back from the woods and says she won't be a part of it (which is a smart choice IMO, both Lilly and Kenny are a bit too bull-headed to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with them.) Doug too, loyalty all the way and prefers not to get involved.
Lilly is out of her mind when Ep3 begins, so it's likely not her either. It actually makes SENSE for her to blame Kenny or Lee. In my game, I held her back while Kenny dropped a 50lbs brick of salt on her Dad's head while she watched. Then I shoved a pitchfork into the first guy I saw outside of the meat locker, sent another person into the arms of a walker, and beat the final one within an inch of his life in front of the entire group. Yeah they were terrible people, but I was just as terrible for doing all that to them. I should have been suspect number one, but I didn't even make the list. Even with Clem in my life, I straight up murdered two people within hours of each other (I killed Jolene in the woods) in addition to being a convicted murderer before the world ended, so I'm fairly certain that stealing would be entirely possible for me in her mind.
She and Kenny have always been butting heads, and it's been known for weeks that Kenny wants to leave. It's an entirely plausible theory that he would be sneaking supplies into hidden nooks around the inn and leave in the middle of the night with his family. In fact, I'm extremely dissapointed that Lilly DIDN'T accuse me or Kenny. I'd love if she shot at me (or Kenny, if the player sided with her in the meat locker) and accidentally hit Carley/Doug as a result. That would have made the scene so much more tragic, and give Kenny haters another reason to hate him, or the player to blame themself.
I actually don't want to lose Kenny until near the end of episode 5 without him it would be pretty lonely everyone else is a stranger hes the last besides Clem and Lee from the original group. I'd feel pretty bad if I lost him as well
Thats how I feel as well because on my play throughs I have sided with Kenny on pretty much everything. Tbh having him loose his whole family ruined his character, to me him and his family were a big chunk of the group and I genuinely cared about them and the friendship I had with them. Now its just Kenny who is emotionally ruined. Hopefully I *Lee* can help him recover somewhat and have my friend helping out again but I dont think he will ever get over loosing his family. Which is understandable.
If not having a spine eliminates you from the running, the only people it could have been were Lilly, Lee, Kenny, Carley, or Doug. I didn't list Ben, because he doesn't meet that criteria. Carley has been nothing but loyal to the group, and isn't trying to play the "good girl" and stay on everyone's good side in my playthrough. She comes down on both Kenny and Lilly when you bring Ben back from the woods and says she won't be a part of it (which is a smart choice IMO, both Lilly and Kenny are a bit too bull-headed to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with them.) Doug too, loyalty all the way and prefers not to get involved.
Lilly is out of her mind when Ep3 begins, so it's likely not her either. It actually makes SENSE for her to blame Kenny or Lee. In my game, I held her back while Kenny dropped a 50lbs brick of salt on her Dad's head while she watched. Then I shoved a pitchfork into the first guy I saw outside of the meat locker, sent another person into the arms of a walker, and beat the final one within an inch of his life in front of the entire group. Yeah they were terrible people, but I was just as terrible for doing all that to them. I should have been suspect number one, but I didn't even make the list. Even with Clem in my life, I straight up murdered two people within hours of each other (I killed Jolene in the woods) in addition to being a convicted murderer before the world ended, so I'm fairly certain that stealing would be entirely possible for me in her mind.
She and Kenny have always been butting heads, and it's been known for weeks that Kenny wants to leave. It's an entirely plausible theory that he would be sneaking supplies into hidden nooks around the inn and leave in the middle of the night with his family. In fact, I'm extremely dissapointed that Lilly DIDN'T accuse me or Kenny. I'd love if she shot at me (or Kenny, if the player sided with her in the meat locker) and accidentally hit Carley/Doug as a result. That would have made the scene so much more tragic, and give Kenny haters another reason to hate him, or the player to blame themself.
Well, I don't really know. My Lee being a suspect was out of the question. Plus it was obvious that the supplies weren't left outside so Kenny could leave, they were left for the bandits. Why would Kenny trade with them if he's going to run away? Plus, even Kenny wouldn't do that. Katjaa is there to calm him down of doing stupid things. My list was Ben and Carley, with Carley being #1. Her flirting with me just felt too convenient to be true. Well Lilly and I were wrong, obviously, and that makes me love this part even more. It adds more tragic. It shows how far my Lee and Lilly would go to protect the group.
Kenny and/or Katjaa could have been dealing with the bandits to protect their family. Katjaa would have had an advantage gaining access to medical supplies without suspicion.
I have to say, I enjoyed being Kenny's nemesis in my 2nd run.
Didn't sided with him once, didn't tried to save his kid once, calling him a murderer, making him kill his son. Anything I could do.
Honestly, after all that he should have killed himself right there after pulling the trigger on his son. All this time his motivation was supposed to be his precious family. So why is he still here?
If in ep4 I'm again in danger and he doesn't help me out, then I'm gonna say that he is a plain coward and that's why he didn't help me before, not because he was thinking about his family. If anything, since he didn't killed himself, he should be fearless and hungry to kill zombies that took away his son and as a side effect his wife.
No more always running to the car (truck, Rv, train, you have a contract to be the driver or something? eh? ) and letting us handle the zombies Kenny...
no more frozen moments - you could handle yourself bs Kenny...
Ugh all those angry because Kenny didn't save their lives. A lot of the time helping Lee is as dangerous as running into a burning building, maybe more so. Would you run into a burning building to save a guy you don't even like. Knowing that your family need you alive?
Well, I don't really know. My Lee being a suspect was out of the question. Plus it was obvious that the supplies weren't left outside so Kenny could leave, they were left for the bandits. Why would Kenny trade with them if he's going to run away? Plus, even Kenny wouldn't do that. Katjaa is there to calm him down of doing stupid things. My list was Ben and Carley, with Carley being #1. Her flirting with me just felt too convenient to be true. Well Lilly and I were wrong, obviously, and that makes me love this part even more. It adds more tragic. It shows how far my Lee and Lilly would go to protect the group.
Never once connected the flirting with trying to cover up the stolen supplies. I guess I wouldn't expect that from someone who has trouble with the basic concepts of batteries. She likes to solve her problems with guns. Kenny could easily have done it even with Katjaa, because he doesn't tell her everything he does. When I admitted my crime to her, she only wanted to know what Kenny really did inside the meat locker, so I told her. If she doesn't know he's stealing, she can't convince him to stop. He could have made a bargain with the bandits where he gives them supplies, and when they attack the motel they'll let him, Kat, and Duck go. A bit of a stretch, I know, but if Kenny thought that dealing with the bandits was a good way to help his family he very well might have done it.
It could have been anyone, even Lee may have just brought some supplies that HE stole to Lilly to put the suspicion on someone else. He obviously didn't, but how would Lilly know? The possibilites are endless, and very little short of a confession would have been concrete enough for everyone to say "Oh yeah, it was definately so-and-so." I can understand going for the new guy, but Carley was with us since this thing began! She came to our rescue at the dairy (despite not doing much, I admit) and after all the times she's put her life at risk to save someone elses it would take a great deal of evidence to convince me she would screw the group over like that. Shouldn't Lilly be able to see that too, if she's (supposedly) level-headed enough to eliminate everyone but those two from the suspect list?
I think the issues is that Kenny is more than happy to run into that burning building if you kiss his ass consistently, otherwise you're bacon.
Yeah, pretty much that's how it is.
Rock114, you make some good points man, but I was just stating the way I felt it the first time I played the episode. I mean.. in my opinion Carley went way to defensive about Ben and that somehow made her suspicious in my eyes. I mean I really wanted to find out the traitor and it felt like she didn't want to... so yeah I thought it was her until Ben confessed.
Me and Kenny never really saw eye to eye since Sean; and it got worse over Larry but, I dunno, he's like the only familiar face to me and the fact that we have history, spotted as it may be and the death of his family has kinda bonded us...I say this now and watch he'll royal screw me at start of 4
I had a really strong dislike for him in ep 1,2 and 3 but nobody deserved what he went through. Even though he destroyed two lives in that meat locker, even though he had to experience it in order to fully realize what he did in that meat locker, it wasn't pleasant to watch Duck and Katjaa die.
I can't really forgive him for what he did in the meat locker and his decisions as a whole, I'm not holding a grudge towards him anymore. That's the best I can do.
Still I want to see him gone. He's will bring even more trouble on our heads and I just want him gone for good. He can take Ben and they can get out of my sight. Chuck, Christa and Omid are new members that might happen to be normal folks and I don't want Kenny to screw over a new potential group by letting some of them die. I already blame him for screwing this one.
My prediction is that he's preparing some major f**k-up...
Today I did a replay of ep. 3. I wanted to do some things differently so I started playing. When he brought the "Let's leave the motor inn" topic for an umpteen time I told him... well, let's split then. He got angry that Carley and Lilly would stay with me and he would be stuck with Ben. In my opinion even Ben wouldn't go with him. Nobody wanted to follow him but he kept plaguing us.
Kenny wants able man like Lee to follow him so his family is best protected.
That's the real reason he saves you back in the end of ep. 1 if you're not on his side.
I had a really strong dislike for him in ep 1,2 and 3 but nobody deserved what he went through. Even though he destroyed two lives in that meat locker, even though he had to experience it in order to fully realize what he did in that meat locker, it wasn't pleasant to watch Duck and Katjaa die.
I can't really forgive him for what he did in the meat locker and his decisions as a whole, I'm not holding a grudge towards him anymore. That's the best I can do.
Still I want to see him gone. He's will bring even more trouble on our heads and I just want him gone for good. He can take Ben and they can get out of my sight. Chuck, Christa and Omid are new members that might happen to be normal folks and I don't want Kenny to screw over a new potential group by letting some of them die. I already blame him for screwing this one.
My prediction is that he's preparing some major f**k-up...
Today I did a replay of ep. 3. I wanted to do some things differently so I started playing. When he brought the "Let's leave the motor inn" topic for an umpteen time I told him... well, let's split then. He got angry that Carley and Lilly would stay with me and he would be stuck with Ben. In my opinion even Ben wouldn't go with him. Nobody wanted to follow him but he kept plaguing us.
Kenny wants able man like Lee to follow him so his family is best protected.
That's the real reason he saves you back in the end of ep. 1 if you're not on his side.
No, I cant deny any of this. Kenny is totally using Lee as a shield for his family under the 'Lets stick together' guise...I would like to see him make it, but in his condition, going rogue, jumping out of the train or trying to take on like 10 walkers alone, being so done with life that he doesnt even help during an invasion...there are so many ways his fate lies right now. None really look good either, but if I can carry him to the finish line with me, I'll certainly try
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She flat out says to Ben when the RV stops "You have until that walker is dealt with to tell me it was Carley!" I believe she was trying to frame Carley because not only did they hate each other, Carley doesn't want her in charge. Carley would have been the easiest (or second easiest) because she doesn't have attatchments like Lee and Clem, or Kenny and his family. The only person who sticks up for Carley is Lee, and Ben to an extent but his defense is pretty weak. I think that after losing the motor inn, she couldn't keep her rage down any longer and wanted to take her wrath out on someone she could get away with, like Carley or Ben. Doug stays neutral through almost the entire game, so she couldn't come down on him without immediately looking like the bad guy (which she was, depending on your point of view)
tl;dr Lilly only accused the people she hated and could get away with because her stress finally got to her and she had no real power in the group anymore.
Did somebody have to die for you to realize that the bandit attack was a serious situation?
Rock114, or maybe... just maybe, she wanted to find out who the traitor was? It was either Carley or Ben, she didn't blame the others because it was obvious it wasn't them. It's not like there were 20 people in that RV. I don't think that this has to do anything with hate or some sort of long planning as you somehow make it sound. You know when you're wondering who's the traitor - the sissy Ben or the cute little Carley, it kinda raises your suspicion when all of us sudden the cute little Carley starts talking back pretending to be very tough.
It makes much more sense for her to be dealing with the bandits than Ben.
One problem with this line - they were attacking. And they stopped. In my game, Doug blatantly states this fact, and Lee can comment on it if you investigate the outside wall just before you find the grate. Ben's deal had LITERALLY stopped the attacks.
See I thought that was a much better angle to go with for the reason behind the stealing. In ben's backwards kind of way he though by giving the bandits smalls supplies here and there he could keep them away from the group and thus keep them safe. If they went with this I would've had more respect for him, rather than "They said they had one of my class mates."
@sisterofshane: Should probably clarify that to mean they never would have attacked after the deal was on. It makes no sense not to benefit from their deal, nor to waste resources on going after them when they were bleeding them slowly. Makes even less sense to attack when they have nothing to gain from it. What are they worried about their rep on the streets?
Probably, I just say what's on my mind. But she and carley did hate each other, which is why she aimed directly at Carley while Doug pulled himself into her line of fire. I just can't see Carley dealing with the bandits, and I do think Lilly's prior feelings toward Carley had something to do with her blaming her first.
Totally, right? I seriously thought that she was going to go after Lee, and that would be the consequence of having sided with Kenny in the meat locker. I mean, think about it. You have an individual that you KNOW is a convicted murderer. You give him your "lead" (broken flashlight), warning him that if he comes up empty that you will just assume that he did it. Magically, he comes up with the missing meds, and (in my playthrough, at least) is unwilling to place the blame on anyone. Oh yeah, and this person never got along with your Dad and held you back while someone else dropped a salt lick on his head. Pretty sure if I was Lilly, I would have thought anybody BUT Carley/Doug or Ben. But no, Lilly, let's blame Ben, and accuse him of being a plant from the bandits! They staged an elaborate scene in the woods in which two out of three of them DIED just to put a mole in our ranks so that they could get access to our med supply!
How come? So she's a suspect but she tells Lee to investigate? I've always trusted Lilly with my life, so I knew it wasn't her. Kenny, he was the one to complain we risked our necks for food and supplies. He had a son and wife to take care. I didn't think it was him, there was just no sense in that.
That left me with Carley and Ben. As I said at first Ben appeared too scared and stupid, while the sudden Carley defensive reaction kinda changed my perception of her. It all started looking kinda shady because Lilly was right. She never talked about her past, she never participated in any major decisions and she always kept the good little girl appearance. For a moment I was like... has this girl been trying to flirt with me just to fool me. I was stricken that it was her.
In the end of course it turns out it wasn't but Lilly's theory was sound. Of course, it also came to who I was trusting more Lilly or Carley. I suspected that Telltale might force me to choose between those to, so obviously I went with Lilly. She might be a bit on the edge, but I knew she had our well-being at heart... and all of a sudden I wasn't sure of Carley at all.
I kinda believe it would've been cooler of it if then went with Carley as a traitor instead of Ben. It would've been like a wet slap to all her fans who were attracted by her cuteness. Instead they went with "Let's leave Carley as useless as it is".
To me it kinda looked like Carley thought she was save just because she was flirting with Lee.
Sisterofshane, you have the option "it was me". If you say it, Lilly states that even thought you though you've done bad things she knows it can't be you because you have Clem in your life now. I guess you're being protective of Clem as I am right?
I guess in everybody's saves it just feels completely different, although the sequence is basically the same.
It's kind of hard to argue with blind faith, regardless of subject. The bandits would have had to make initial contact with whomever they were making a deal with, which really should have made it less likely to be Ben as his absence would be questioned. Considering Lilly's lack of trust, how was that Ben accessed supplies in her custody?
It really doesn't matter whether you sided with Lilly or not in the meat locker, Lilly's attitude toward Lee during the investigation, interrogation and execution play out the same.
That's not true. I've seen videos of different playthroughs than mine and it's not the same. None of them is really taking sides in any important decisions. They seem most shady of all
I wouldn't call it blind faith, it's logic. In my playthrough I've never had any reason to suspect Lilly.
When there is a traitor you always go for the person you know the least, it's always that way.
I've played both and there's one distinct line of dialogue difference when Kenny and Lilly are arguing and you choose the "stop this shit" option. Depending on who Lee helped in Ep. 2, Lee will say that person has valid concerns. That's it.
You mean the first day they learned the bandits existed, back when the bandits were still demanding food from the farm? Ben's first day with the group? I somehow don't see Carley, Ben and the bandits hashing out a master plan that day.
And why not? What if they've been attacked while all the rest were at the Saint Jones' farm? That could've been the terms for letting both of them live.
It's not that far-fetched.
My course of logic in those Lilly/Carley scenes were that it couldn't be Lilly, me nor Kenny and Katjaa. Kenny and Katjaa was far too focus on Duck to get involved in something like this, plus Kenny is a bit spineless in my opinion so he would totally ask for Lee's permission/approval/support if something like that happened. Lilly on the other hand was the one that started the hunt for the traitor so it couldn't have been her. She did not hate Carley or Ben so accusing them of being traitors when she was in fact the one... well that is far-fetched. If there was a person who Lilly hated, that was Kenny.
The fact that she didn't go for Kenny in that argument means to me that she didn't do it because of spite. She was indeed looking for the traitor and wanted to protect the group.
P.S It couldn't be Lee as well because as she said, he had to take care of Clem. I do agree that children change everything!
Sisterofshane, it's really funny that I consider the exact opposite to be the logical development of this situation
Not plausible, the bandits were busy attacking the diary and shooting Mark.
If you consider Kenny too spineless, why would Ben be a suspect? It's much more likely that either Katjaa or Kenny were guilty because of Duck and wanting to protect him. Further, Lilly made it very clear she neither liked nor trusted either Ben or Carley. As for going after Kenny, that would have been too obvious.
Lilly is out of her mind when Ep3 begins, so it's likely not her either. It actually makes SENSE for her to blame Kenny or Lee. In my game, I held her back while Kenny dropped a 50lbs brick of salt on her Dad's head while she watched. Then I shoved a pitchfork into the first guy I saw outside of the meat locker, sent another person into the arms of a walker, and beat the final one within an inch of his life in front of the entire group. Yeah they were terrible people, but I was just as terrible for doing all that to them. I should have been suspect number one, but I didn't even make the list. Even with Clem in my life, I straight up murdered two people within hours of each other (I killed Jolene in the woods) in addition to being a convicted murderer before the world ended, so I'm fairly certain that stealing would be entirely possible for me in her mind.
She and Kenny have always been butting heads, and it's been known for weeks that Kenny wants to leave. It's an entirely plausible theory that he would be sneaking supplies into hidden nooks around the inn and leave in the middle of the night with his family. In fact, I'm extremely dissapointed that Lilly DIDN'T accuse me or Kenny. I'd love if she shot at me (or Kenny, if the player sided with her in the meat locker) and accidentally hit Carley/Doug as a result. That would have made the scene so much more tragic, and give Kenny haters another reason to hate him, or the player to blame themself.
Thats how I feel as well because on my play throughs I have sided with Kenny on pretty much everything. Tbh having him loose his whole family ruined his character, to me him and his family were a big chunk of the group and I genuinely cared about them and the friendship I had with them. Now its just Kenny who is emotionally ruined. Hopefully I *Lee* can help him recover somewhat and have my friend helping out again but I dont think he will ever get over loosing his family. Which is understandable.
Kenny: Lee, all that stuff that happened with us before, I'm through with it if you are.
Well, I don't really know. My Lee being a suspect was out of the question. Plus it was obvious that the supplies weren't left outside so Kenny could leave, they were left for the bandits. Why would Kenny trade with them if he's going to run away? Plus, even Kenny wouldn't do that. Katjaa is there to calm him down of doing stupid things. My list was Ben and Carley, with Carley being #1. Her flirting with me just felt too convenient to be true. Well Lilly and I were wrong, obviously, and that makes me love this part even more. It adds more tragic. It shows how far my Lee and Lilly would go to protect the group.
Didn't sided with him once, didn't tried to save his kid once, calling him a murderer, making him kill his son. Anything I could do.
Honestly, after all that he should have killed himself right there after pulling the trigger on his son. All this time his motivation was supposed to be his precious family. So why is he still here?
If in ep4 I'm again in danger and he doesn't help me out, then I'm gonna say that he is a plain coward and that's why he didn't help me before, not because he was thinking about his family. If anything, since he didn't killed himself, he should be fearless and hungry to kill zombies that took away his son and as a side effect his wife.
No more always running to the car (truck, Rv, train, you have a contract to be the driver or something? eh? ) and letting us handle the zombies Kenny...
no more frozen moments - you could handle yourself bs Kenny...
If you wouldn't, then you are a simple hypocrite.
Never once connected the flirting with trying to cover up the stolen supplies. I guess I wouldn't expect that from someone who has trouble with the basic concepts of batteries. She likes to solve her problems with guns. Kenny could easily have done it even with Katjaa, because he doesn't tell her everything he does. When I admitted my crime to her, she only wanted to know what Kenny really did inside the meat locker, so I told her. If she doesn't know he's stealing, she can't convince him to stop. He could have made a bargain with the bandits where he gives them supplies, and when they attack the motel they'll let him, Kat, and Duck go. A bit of a stretch, I know, but if Kenny thought that dealing with the bandits was a good way to help his family he very well might have done it.
It could have been anyone, even Lee may have just brought some supplies that HE stole to Lilly to put the suspicion on someone else. He obviously didn't, but how would Lilly know? The possibilites are endless, and very little short of a confession would have been concrete enough for everyone to say "Oh yeah, it was definately so-and-so." I can understand going for the new guy, but Carley was with us since this thing began! She came to our rescue at the dairy (despite not doing much, I admit) and after all the times she's put her life at risk to save someone elses it would take a great deal of evidence to convince me she would screw the group over like that. Shouldn't Lilly be able to see that too, if she's (supposedly) level-headed enough to eliminate everyone but those two from the suspect list?
I think the issue is that Kenny is more than happy to run into that burning building if you kiss his ass consistently, otherwise you're bacon.
Yeah, pretty much that's how it is.
Rock114, you make some good points man, but I was just stating the way I felt it the first time I played the episode. I mean.. in my opinion Carley went way to defensive about Ben and that somehow made her suspicious in my eyes. I mean I really wanted to find out the traitor and it felt like she didn't want to... so yeah I thought it was her until Ben confessed.
I didn't always agree with Kenny and he saved my life TWICE.
The first time in the shop, which happens even if you were about to kill Duck yourself. Yeah...
Yes, but we're in episode 3 now and things change.
Lilly's not much better considering people are only as valuable as their assets.
Heartless!
This thread has always been Lilly vs Kenny thread with people mostly disliking Kenny. Since episode 3 it's kinda 50/50
What happened to him... no one deserves that.
The man has nothing to live for and has foreshadowed his own death towards the end of ep. 3.
"I better teach you [how to run the train] in case something happens to me"
I had a really strong dislike for him in ep 1,2 and 3 but nobody deserved what he went through. Even though he destroyed two lives in that meat locker, even though he had to experience it in order to fully realize what he did in that meat locker, it wasn't pleasant to watch Duck and Katjaa die.
I can't really forgive him for what he did in the meat locker and his decisions as a whole, I'm not holding a grudge towards him anymore. That's the best I can do.
Still I want to see him gone. He's will bring even more trouble on our heads and I just want him gone for good. He can take Ben and they can get out of my sight. Chuck, Christa and Omid are new members that might happen to be normal folks and I don't want Kenny to screw over a new potential group by letting some of them die. I already blame him for screwing this one.
My prediction is that he's preparing some major f**k-up...
Today I did a replay of ep. 3. I wanted to do some things differently so I started playing. When he brought the "Let's leave the motor inn" topic for an umpteen time I told him... well, let's split then. He got angry that Carley and Lilly would stay with me and he would be stuck with Ben. In my opinion even Ben wouldn't go with him. Nobody wanted to follow him but he kept plaguing us.
Kenny wants able man like Lee to follow him so his family is best protected.
That's the real reason he saves you back in the end of ep. 1 if you're not on his side.
No, I cant deny any of this. Kenny is totally using Lee as a shield for his family under the 'Lets stick together' guise...I would like to see him make it, but in his condition, going rogue, jumping out of the train or trying to take on like 10 walkers alone, being so done with life that he doesnt even help during an invasion...there are so many ways his fate lies right now. None really look good either, but if I can carry him to the finish line with me, I'll certainly try
Red is so his colour.
This is so funny!