I think Kenny was a good person in Episode 1. Yeah he panics when it comes to Shawn, but if Lee goes for Shawn instead of Duck Kenny doesn't really get mad right then and even owns up to his mistake to Lee. He'll also come back and save your life no matter what he thinks of you after Larry punches you. I even give him credit for saving the entire group after the alarm goes off, where Lilly just focuses on Larry.
I've always considered it a gradual decline in his humanity over the 3 months the group's been surviving that lead to his current attitude. I don't really think he's a power hungry megalomaniac, at least anymore than Lilly was, but think that he TRULY thought that he knew what was best for the group. He was a total bastard to her after he killed her dad (and I felt like crap because I helped) and he's also pretty stupid at certain points (telling about the girl in the street, or saying he was proud of you for dropping Ben). He's a stupid redneck though, and lets his emotions get the best of him at times.
I pretty much forgave him after I talked him down on the train because I finally understood why he was acting like such a douche lately (he didn't leave me to die in the barn or under the door, but I got fed up with his crap during the supply run. I also shot the girl). When he said he kept blaming himself for Shawn and said that he knew that sooner or later it would catch up to him, that cast his actions in a different light to me. He was just scared of losing his only family in the world and thought that because he made one mistake on Hershal's farm that his wife and son would pay for it. Knowing that he's blaming himself for every bad thing that happens to his family made me understand why they seemed like the only thing he cared about. And when I was able to make him see that he was wrong without having to fight him, I forgave him when he went to deal with his son and stop the train. The same reason I forgave Ben at Crawford. He was willing to face his mistakes and take responsibility for his actions. He volunteered to find Clem without a second thought, so I'll be glad to have him watching my back in Episode 5.
You traitor, i thought you were a fellow Kenny lover :P
Seriously though how is Kenny stupid for saying what happened in Macon? He is trying to tell Lilly what Macon is really like and how dangerous going in there really is. She's not the one taking the risk, she needs to know. And although i didnt actually kill Ben, im not suprised he said he was proud of you for doing so. The guy had recently killed his family and he probably felt some sick satisfaction in him being gone as im sure many other players had for his role in Carely's death. And we didnt even know her that well!
To all you darned Lilly fans, you can lose everyone's loyalty. Do the wrong things and Christa and Omid will leave you on your own as will Ben. And at least its possible to get Kenny on your side, so matter how kind and thoughtful and helpful you are to Lilly and no matter how you treat her dad, she still absolutely screws you over and leaves you to die, stealing you're only mode of transport and leaving you with the people you obviously hate so much (as well as a person recently bit) So much for her friendship
You traitor, i thought you were a fellow Kenny lover :P
Seriously though how is Kenny stupid for saying what happened in Macon? He is trying to tell Lilly what Macon is really like and how dangerous going in there really is. She's not the one taking the risk, she needs to know. And although i didnt actually kill Ben, im not suprised he said he was proud of you for doing so. The guy had recently killed his family and he probably felt some sick satisfaction in him being gone as im sure many other players had for his role in Carely's death. And we didnt even know her that well!
To all you darned Lilly fans, you can lose everyone's loyalty. Do the wrong things and Christa and Omid will leave you on your own as will Ben. And at least its possible to get Kenny on your side, so matter how kind and thoughtful and helpful you are to Lilly and no matter how you treat her dad, she still absolutely screws you over and leaves you to die, stealing you're only mode of transport and leaving you with the people you obviously hate so much (as well as a person recently bit) So much for her friendship
No problem with them leaving me behind IF they have a reasonable purpose. I mean IF they act with a logical reason, it is ok with me.
At least they won't keep babbling about a missing boat after all that hardwork of mine, or they won't fall in love with drinking while a lonely little girl wandering around in an empty&creepy manor.
And at least Omid and Christa would know how to shoot a walker if they are half of Lilly. (Remember where Kenny were when those many walkers attacked to the Motor Inn ...)
I don't know if you watched one of very first Walking Dead promo videos as there can be seen, Christa is shooting herself in the head in the woods. Maybe it is because she is bitten, or Omid is long gone. Mark my words, she is dead already
I don't think this "who comes or not" issue effects the whole episode. I mean eighter you choose them to come or not, they will supposedly rejoin with you at some exact point of the final chapter of this story.
Well, again about Kenny... Regardless, he is an useless dumbass. He would shoot me and then himself on Finale as it begins! That would be best for him ))
I think Kenny and Lilly are similar characters. They have the same motives, but different ways of approaching them.
I prefer Kenny though, to me his ideas make more sense and are better for the group as a whole. Another reason I prefer Kenny though is because from what we've seen so far he hasn't gone psycho after losing everything. Also it might be more of a benefit to side with Kenny because he can be with you in episode 5; whereas Lilly is gone in episode 3. Some people think she might come back, but I don't think she will :rolleyes:
Anyway, it's all just my opinion. We either side with Lilly or Kenny depending on our own sense of right and wrong
No problem with them leaving me behind IF they have a reasonable purpose. I mean IF they act with a logical reason, it is ok with me.
At least they won't keep babbling about a missing boat after all that hardwork of mine, or they won't fall in love with drinking while a lonely little girl wandering around in an empty&creepy manor.
And at least they would know how to shoot to a walker if they are half of Lilly. (Remember where Kenny were when those many walkers attacked to the Motor Inn ...)
I don't know if you watched one of very first Walking Dead promo videos as there can be seen, Christa is shooting herself in the head in the woods. Maybe it is because she is bitten, or Omid is long gone. Mark my words, she is dead already
I don't think this "who comes or not" issue effects the whole episode. I mean eighter you choose them to come or not, they will supposedly rejoin with you at some exact point of the final chapter of this story.
Well, again about Kenny... Regardless, he is an useless dumbass. He would shoot me and then himself on Finale as it begins! That would be best for him ))
Lilly has no reasonable purpose or logical reason. You saved her life and forgave her after she murdered a good member and friend of the group. You arent going to kill her or anything. And she suddenly steals the RV and drives away, leaving the entire group to die on the road.
Can you really blame Kenny for drinking? He had lost his family, the only thing he cared about a couple of days ago and had realised that there was no way of finding a boat and safety, that they were trapped there. He was in a empty and SAFE house and probably assumed Clem wasnt so stupid as to wander off outside. And i dont know what you're saying with that other sentence.
Sorry but the promo video was actually Katjaa shooting herself, they just put in Christa's sprite so they wouldnt spoil the story in the trailer.
And i think the who comes or not will be important. I bet those who come with you survive and those who dont are eaten by the horde which has now reached Savannah or killed by walkie talkie guy.
To all you darned Lilly fans, you can lose everyone's loyalty. Do the wrong things and Christa and Omid will leave you on your own as will Ben. And at least its possible to get Kenny on your side, so matter how kind and thoughtful and helpful you are to Lilly and no matter how you treat her dad, she still absolutely screws you over and leaves you to die, stealing you're only mode of transport and leaving you with the people you obviously hate so much (as well as a person recently bit) So much for her friendship
The howl from players who thought Kenny was their friend at the end of e4 said it all. So many posts of betrayal and disappointment when Kenny refused to help rescue Clem. I was not surprised. Fortunately, there is a way to "fix" your broken game by going back and selecting a dialogue option that you otherwise would not have selected. Whew...the things you have to do to keep Kenny on your side...talk about high maintenance! Yep...he's a true friend :rolleyes:.
Lilly has no reasonable purpose or logical reason. You saved her life and forgave her after she murdered a good member and friend of the group. You arent going to kill her or anything. And she suddenly steals the RV and drives away, leaving the entire group to die on the road.
Can you really blame Kenny for drinking? He had lost his family, the only thing he cared about a couple of days ago and had realised that there was no way of finding a boat and safety, that they were trapped there. He was in a empty and SAFE house and probably assumed Clem wasnt so stupid as to wander off outside. And i dont know what you're saying with that other sentence.
Sorry but the promo video was actually Katjaa shooting herself, they just put in Christa's sprite so they wouldnt spoil the story in the trailer.
And i think the who comes or not will be important. I bet those who come with you survive and those who dont are eaten by the horde which has now reached Savannah or killed by walkie talkie guy.
And Kenny is an all round awesome guy!
I know Lilly IS a murderer and I don't try to reason her behaviour but,
1)She was "so sure" that someone was helping the bandits: and it was True.
2)She was just too depressed and angry with that traitor issue, as it caused a little boy to get bitten, and the lost of the motor inn: and it was True.
3)She ran away, but "I think" she was too ashamed for what she did to continue with the group and maybe she thought it won't be good to be with them neighter for them nor herself: and I think it was True.
4)No matter what, she were always strong and she were in a good harmony with others until she lost her father: and it is True.
5) So, I think she is not a cruel person but she has a very dramatic doom: and it is True for me.
Can I really blame Kenny for drinking?
Yes I can. If he has completely lost his hope for survival; what is he doing along them? I can understand his bad feelings after he saw that boy in the attic and I can understand he is drinking because of his grief, but what about Clem? How can he turn his eyes away from her?
If I went somewhere with someone else, and tragically if we got seperated with them when their little girl remained with my side; I'd look after her to the death. Lee might be away, Lee might get lost or he might disappear by a sever hole, and what should Kenny do after him? His first thing to do after they came back to their shelter was drinking! Sorry, but I can't forgive this.
He caused Clem to get lost, but even so he continued reprove Lee severely about the boat, about how they will die etc etc...
It was so selfish. Everyone else were in the same situation there and even Christa didn't act like him.
"and probably assumed Clem wasnt so stupid as to wander off outside..." you are saying.
Man, you shouldn't suppose,guess -or whatever- a child that he/she might do or not. You should keep your eyes on them. As always Lee were trying to do. A child is a child, nothing more.
"And i dont know what you're saying with that other sentence. "-
I meant that Omid&Christa is much more valuable than Kenny as a sharpshooter if they have half balls Lilly had Remember what Kenny were doing in the RV (?) when that ambush occured in the motor inn:)
I really respect your feelings about Kenny my friend, but come here, sit and try to be more reasonable with it. Admit it at least... He is the ultimate loser
P.S: And Kenny is right, he really messed up everything
My biggest problem with Kenny lies in ep.2. Killing Larry in that way was the beginning of the end. Even back then, when ep.3 wasn't released yet I knew that Kenny had doomed us. We weren't gonna survive that. You can't just kill one of your own and not expect consequences like the ones in ep.3. Even back in ep. 2 I knew that I would have to look for a new group, cause Lilly was my biggest friend and I knew that she would have to leave for Woodbury sooner or later. However, I didn't know that Kenny would come with me, despite me being the rudest person to him. He started plaguing my new group as well, even Molly decided not to come with us after she saw how he behaved.
I don't want that man anywhere near me. He's like poison - slowly destroying everything he touches.
If I had the chance I would take Lilly and Clem and leave the group right after ep. 2 or better. I would force Kenny to leave before the whole drama of ep. 3
My biggest problem with Kenny lies in ep.2. Killing Larry in that way was the beginning of the end. Even back then, when ep.3 wasn't released yet I knew that Kenny had doomed us. We weren't gonna survive that. You can't just kill one of your own and not expect consequences like the ones in ep.3. Even back in ep. 2 I knew that I would have to look for a new group, cause Lilly was my biggest friend and I knew that she would have to leave for Woodbury sooner or later. However, I didn't know that Kenny would come with me, despite me being the rudest person to him. He started plaguing my new group as well, even Molly decided not to come with us after she saw how he behaved.
I don't want that man anywhere near me. He's like poison - slowly destroying everything he touches.
If I had the chance I would take Lilly and Clem and leave the group right after ep. 2 or better. I would force Kenny to leave before the whole drama of ep. 3
You interpretered my feelings! It means trouble everytime he opens his mouth.
The thing is, the name of the thread and the amount of the replies create a good quote:
F... Kenny (or his moustache:P)
You traitor, i thought you were a fellow Kenny lover :P
Seriously though how is Kenny stupid for saying what happened in Macon? He is trying to tell Lilly what Macon is really like and how dangerous going in there really is. She's not the one taking the risk, she needs to know. And although i didnt actually kill Ben, im not suprised he said he was proud of you for doing so. The guy had recently killed his family and he probably felt some sick satisfaction in him being gone as im sure many other players had for his role in Carely's death. And we didnt even know her that well!
To all you darned Lilly fans, you can lose everyone's loyalty. Do the wrong things and Christa and Omid will leave you on your own as will Ben. And at least its possible to get Kenny on your side, so matter how kind and thoughtful and helpful you are to Lilly and no matter how you treat her dad, she still absolutely screws you over and leaves you to die, stealing you're only mode of transport and leaving you with the people you obviously hate so much (as well as a person recently bit) So much for her friendship
Dude, I AM a Kenny lover! I'd take him over Lilly any day, but he has faults. Faults which make him human. I'd personally prefer him to NOT mention the stuff that happens when it's just me and him on a supply run or something like that. He doesn't think before he speaks, but that makes him seem more real. I don't hold it against him. Him telling Lilly how dangerous it was seemed necessary, because from that I gleaned that Lee and Kenny take all the risk for the supplies that Lilly didn't even bother to tell us were going missing. And I totally understand why Kenny would be proud of me for bringing his family's killer to justice, because I know that's how he saw it. I just felt like a total piece of shit for dropping him, to the point I hoped everyone would forget about Ben like they did Chuck, so I just didn't want to be reminded of it.
And agreed about Lilly. She'll abandon you no matter how nice you are to her, after murdering another member of the group for no reason. If you're loyal to Lilly, she'll up and abandon your ass. If you're loyal to Kenny, he'll die for you without hesitation. Because to him, you're his family. The only family he has left. The reason you have to side with Kenny more is because he's been with you from the beginning, whereas there are absolutely NO major choices involving Ben until the bell tower, and Christa and Omid have only just joined up with your group. The only big choice with them is the train situation with the herd. I'd say a good half of the major choices so far affect your relationship with Kenny.
If you're loyal to Lilly, she'll up and abandon your ass. If you're loyal to Kenny, he'll die for you without hesitation. Because to him, you're his family. The only family he has left.
Hehe, it is weird how everyone reads different things from characters. Maybe this is because we are all playing same scenarios with different dialog choices.
The Kenny I met is NOTHING closer to your description.
I myself can not describe him with the words family-Lee-Clem or something like "buddy". For me, it is not going near of a "friendship" with my Lee and that Kenny have between them. And I don't think he sees Lee as a family member.
I can simply prefer a confused Lilly to a shifty Kenny.
P.S: Man, what kind of a man can still walk around of a person after he has killed his/her father deliberately without no hesitation? Here we talk about company, not walking around though. They could wait and take care of the situation if Larry ever tries to turn. If Larry was about to turn, I'm sure Lilly should have been more reasonable and more brave with the result. But unfortunately Kenny has no brain!
And that brick is all he understands from the title "family"
Hehe, it is weird how everyone reads different things from characters. Maybe this is because we are all playing same scenarios with different dialog choices.
The Kenny I met is NOTHING closer to your description.
I myself can not describe him with the words family-Lee-Clem or something like "buddy". For me, it is not going near of a "friendship" with my Lee and that Kenny have between them. And I don't think he sees Lee as a family member.
I can simply prefer a confused Lilly to a shifty Kenny.
P.S: Man, what kind of a man can still walk around of a person after he has killed his/her father deliberately without no hesitation? Here we talk about company, not walking around though. They could wait and take care of the situation if Larry ever tries to turn. If Larry was about to turn, I'm sure Lilly should have been more reasonable and more brave with the result. But unfortunately Kenny has no brain!
And that brick is all he understands from the title "family"
here's the thing here:
some people just want to protect the women to POSSIBLY be "boyfriend girlfriend" sort of relationship.
some just do because they're like: "ohhh females before males".
some just do it for the sake of it.
many women just do it because she seems nice
______________________________
now with Kenny:
they side with him because he seems like a good guy.
others for no apparent reason.
and others for the sake of it or the outcomes.
________________________________________
whatever it is It's because people have different views. :P
But in my game I couldn't trust Lilly after she blew someone's head off right in front of Clem based on a hunch. At least Kenny had a reason for smashing Larry, he could very well have turned and killed them all. He "might" have jumped the gun, but Lilly did without question. It's her way or the highway, and I don't like her way of killing anyone she simply doesn't like. Kenny may leave you for dead but he's never pulled out a gun and blown out your brains just because he doesn't like you.
here's the thing here:
some people just want to protect the women to POSSIBLY be "boyfriend girlfriend" sort of relationship.
some just do because they're like: "ohhh females before males".
some just do it for the sake of it.
many women just do it because she seems nice
______________________________
now with Kenny:
they side with him because he seems like a good guy.
others for no apparent reason.
and others for the sake of it or the outcomes.
________________________________________
whatever it is It's because people have different views. :P
Haha, I don't really want to offend anyone but I watched a friend of mine while he was playing his own scenario; he still stood with the girls and he is gay.
How do you explain that? :P
@Rock114- Man, I'm respectful to your angle but from my angle Lilly didn't killed Carley just because she doesn't like her.
Many complicated feelings were there. She was stressed, confused and mad.(I'm sure she is a bit mental ill, too) There was a situation that she was trying to explain to all others and Carley popped out and seemed like she was the leader of the opposide idea. And when Lilly recognized Lee was listening to her, and after Carley's unfortunate insults, it became to a desperate moment for Lilly. But she was damn guilty, I admit!
You are right with your angle at certain points. But there is something in the world entitle : Respect. Respect to other people's feelings&sufferings.
On Walking Dead mini series-on tv, or comics, this kind of situations occured. But have you ever seen a Rick who grabs a rock and throws on Amy's brain in front of her sister Andrea?
Probably not.
Haha, I don't really want to offend anyone but I watched a friend of mine while he was playing his own scenario; he still stood with the girls and he is gay.
How do you explain that? :P
I'm not a Psychologist but...
he might just be was it for different out comes.
or he's changing from being gay (very doubt it though).
he wants to see romance.
that's pretty much I've got really :P
But in my game I couldn't trust Lilly after she blew someone's head off right in front of Clem based on a hunch. At least Kenny had a reason for smashing Larry, he could very well have turned and killed them all. He "might" have jumped the gun, but Lilly did without question. It's her way or the highway, and I don't like her way of killing anyone she simply doesn't like. Kenny may leave you for dead but he's never pulled out a gun and blown out your brains just because he doesn't like you.
I think it is a bit more complicated than that. When Kenny killed Larry, he popped the bubble. We stopped perceiving ourselves as a functioning group and for Lilly this feeling was heightened tenfold. Why? Because she was the victim. It was her father that got killed because one (or two) man decided to play Gods and took the law into their own hands. In order to counter this tendency she became obsessed with control. It was her way of being sure you won't kill her or somebody else just because you like to.
In my playthrough there was a lot of trust between Lilly and Lee. In her eyes, our group was Lilly and Clem. Ben was new and unreliable, Katja and Duck was with Kenny (the enemy) and Carley... well she was a sort of an enemy too, with her constantly trying to take no sides and be (the good one). Lilly knew she was already perceived as the bad one, because of all the tough choices she had to make (rationing the food, being in charge, taking responsibility).
So when we found there was a traitor and the bandits attack, apparently she had her reasons to doubt Carley (things that happened off-screen). Lilly was convinced that Carley was the traitor. It makes perfect sense.
Carley once again tried to play the good girl card and this time accused Lilly of being the bad one. Carley made herself the enemy in Lilly's eyes.
There was a traitor and Carley identified herself as the one, not knowing/accepting Lee's discovery. There wasn't anybody else. Ben was always dumb and scared when he talked to Lilly (she has no reason to even consider that he would have the balls to deal with bandits). It couldn't be Kenny too. Even though she hated the guy, she knew he cares about his family and Lilly speaks Family. She knows it can't be him and she knows it can't be Lee (for being a friend, or simply having Clem in his life).
So it had to be Carley and it still makes perfect sense. Nobody knew anything about her past, she had no ties to any of them and she was female. She was not only trying to make Lilly look bad by not taking sides or doing tough choices ever. She was also trying to charm her way into Lee's heart, which could also indicate she could've been a sly traitor.
Of course, Lilly was wrong, but if you're not an omniscient spectator as we are, it is perfectly plausable.
So what happens then? The man once again take law into their hands and ONCE again disregard her opinion. Now that's the moment where her female insecurity kicks in. She was already overpowered by those man once, resulting in her fathers death. She's still traumatized by that accident that occured only a week ago, but now the other pretty girl is trying to take her position as alpha female by making her look bad.
Well, that results in a bullet in Carley's face.
You can see that she regrets it the second she does it. She's afraid of what she's done.
How can you not take back in the RV such a broken poor creature?
Kenny didn't go throw any of this in ep. 2. Heck, even his family was not in the immediate threat of Larry turning. He could've waited a few more seconds, but he chooses his own family over other people's. He doesn't even regret the choice. In ep. 3 he even dares to talk back. All the bad things that happened in ep. 3 are consequences of Kenny's dumb actions in the meat locker and after that.
P.S I just realized why I hate so much the sequence where if you chose to side with Kenny, Lee holds Lilly's hands behind her back while Kenny kills Larry.
It has always reminded me of a rape scene. A breach of one's personality.
Lee overpowers her, because he's bigger and stronger, leaving her powerless, while Kenny does something horrible.
I think the damage Kenny dealt to Lilly was equal to rape. He could've done it and ep.3 wouldn't have been much different as to Lilly's reactions and behavior.
The reason he doesn't seem to regret killing Larry is because he though the man was already dead. If Kenny actually thought the guy could be saved there wouldn't have been blocks of salt flying. And his family WAS in immediate danger. They were held hostage by cannibals who were going to kill everyone in the meat locker, and keep the others alive to slowly cut up and trade as meat. David/Travis actually turned fairly quickly, and by the time Lee acts (or stands there because he's indecisive) She's already been performing CPR for a good long while. He could have turned by then and killed her. And Kenny. And Lee and Clem. Kenny saw it as Lilly putting her father, probably already dead, over his own family and the entire group. And if Lee helps, he sees him as doing the same.
Then only reason I ever saw for her to doubt Carley was because Carley didn't like her. She gives Carley the death glare when she calls Kenny "Boss" in episode 1 because Lilly knows it means she can't be in charge. Lilly was always about control, and when people didn't fall in line they became the enemy. If she'd had her way, Lee and Clem would have died in front of the drug store in Episode 1. I never once heard ANYONE say "Please lead us Lilly". She put herself in charge, which she made perfectly clear in the drug store, and then wonders why people don't like her.
Why, exactly, does not picking sides make Carley a wannabe good girl? She chose not to get involved with the Lilly/Kenny power struggle which was actually a good idea! If people begin picking sides the group splits and people get hurt/killed. I tryed to be neutral Lee and never picked sides until the meat locker forced me to because I knew that mediation was the only way to keep the group together. Carley picking a side, ANY side, would have made the situation even worse. I wish everyone else had followed her example and made both Lilly and Kenny see sense. Lilly didn't care she shot Carley, she tried to justify it after it happened. That was cold, calculated murder on her part because Carley talked back and didn't fall in line. Lilly WAS the bad guy because she insisted on playing God right after the group barely escaped the motel alive. I considered us a functioning (if barely) group right up until Lilly blew Carley's head off. Maybe if I'd saved Doug I'd have let her back on, because she didn't intend to kill him at least.
The straw that broke the camel's back was actually Ben ya know. Lilly and Kenny's arguments caused tension in the group, and Larry's death only made matters worse, but the group was still functioning a week later. In the immediate aftermath of the bandit raid brought on by Ben's secrecy, one person left/got left behind, and three more died. I think Lilly probably would have shot someone anyway if she hadn't been messed up, because stealing from the group is undermining her authority, and that's something she just can't stand. Without Larry to enforce her laws, everything fell apart for her.
@Rock114 _ Man, as I said before you are talking in sense.
All these are predictions like ours' are.
I like Lilly cause I don't believe her behavior is because of her personality. Or I don't believe she made that one big terrible mistake for a reason different than a sudden nervous breakdown. Her reactions always seemed so desperate to me, maybe I pity her, I don't know. I think she is a common victim, not the evil itself.
The thing is; I don't guess this game express the characters' personalities to us by our choices. For example I sided with Kenny at first when we entered the drugstore. So, Larry got his heart bad... But even in this situation Lilly didn't treat me like I'm a cruel man. She was all reasonable with the situation which was very unfortunate for her father that he was wrong because Duck was not bitten. And she treated like a grown up; so logical, so honest.
The thing I'm trying to say is, she is not as that despotic as you mentioned. If you can be kind to her just a little, you'd see she is very cooperative.
I know that we can't come in an agreement with protagonists that we love;
But please answer me one last question:
How many times did Kenny and Lilly brought the things on an edge of a knife? I don't mean messing things in terrible ways. But I'm talking just about negative moments those two brought us face to face? Look for the bad situations. Please be honest to yourself.
All the Best, I really am tired of this Kenny&Lilly mess... But yes, Kenny is a dumbass!
The group was shattered because of what happened in the meat locker. Kenny alone is to blame for everthing bad that followed. I did all I could to help Lilly afterwards but even I could see that her father being murdered by Kenny caused severe trauma to her mental well being. What kenny did cannot be overlooked or explained away. Simply put, you cannot murder someone elses family member in front of them and expect to maintain group harmony. That's what Lilly believed Kenny did to her and as YamiRaziel detailed in his post the consequences are upon us.
Kenny went against me in the meat locker and caused the loss of my friends by his foolish actions. What upset me the most was when he wanted to be thanked for brutalizing Lilly in that meat locker. I was more that happy to tell Kenny to go fuck himself at the end of e4.
As it is said on another thread; to get "bros for life speech", you should perform these:
save duck instead of shawn
back at the drug store tell kenny to kick Larry's ass
episode 2
give at least one member of his family food (duck), DO NOT give it to either lilly or larry
kill larry
side with him when he says "there's gonna be fallout".
episode 3
agree with him when he asks:"have you made your mind yet about leaving the Hotel".
side with him when Lilly's paranoia starts
leave lilly on the road
calm kenny on the train
episode 4
side with kenny when looking for a boat
side with him when he wants to kill ben
DONT DROP BEN WHEN THAT PART COMES!
He always needs something. It's like you are not playing this game but Kenny does.
And he always have someone to die in his agenda.
Rock114, I cannot really agree with your post.
In the meat locker scene, everybody was in danger. However, Katjaa and Duck were not in the immediate danger of Larry turning. They needed Katja, and if they want her to cooperate, they needed Duck alive. We can even say the were the safest of all.
You say that Lilly cannot stand people disobeying her. I have a hard time believing that. Lilly not wanting Carley to risk their lives and save some dumb strangers that yell like idiots is actually super smart. In the world of TWD you never, ever rush to strangers like that. They can be bandits, they can be anything. Carley disobeys and saves our group. Lilly yells for a while, but doesn't do anything.
Now, what does Kenny do when you disobey his orders? My Lee decided to help Larry, but he didn't let us. He was the first to take law into his hands. He was the first executioner. He was the first to disrespect our choices.
You cannot expect that such actions won't effect us. It traumatized Lilly and it affected my Lee. I started hating the guy and Lilly slowly became unstable.
As for Carley, why is not taking sides a bad thing? It's simple, really, somebody has to make decisions. When to people argue as to what's best for the group, you got to speak your mind. You can't avoid making decisions just because they are hard or because they will make you look bad.
Lilly does them, Kenny does them, even Lee does them. Carley just stays in the middle, because it suits her to be the good girl. She doesn't have to ration food right? It won't be Larry, Mark or Kenny who are gonna hate her for not feeding them. They are gonna hate Lilly. It's very convenient to never make your hands dirty.
Why hasn't Carley ever been in a conflict? Because she never speaks her mind. She tells Lee afterwards, but she never really shows her position.
Lilly was never the bad guy. She was one of the people who did the most for this group, who were ready to make what others were afraid of. She was a great leader, until Kenny ruined her life.
As it is said on another thread; to get "bros for life speech", you should perform these:
save duck instead of shawn -Done
back at the drug store tell kenny to kick Larry's ass- Threatened Larry myself
episode 2
give at least one member of his family food (duck), DO NOT give it to either lilly or larry- I gave food to Lilly
kill larry- Done
side with him when he says "there's gonna be fallout".- Done
episode 3
agree with him when he asks:"have you made your mind yet about leaving the Hotel".- I sat on the fence in this one
side with him when Lilly's paranoia starts- Done
leave lilly on the road- Done (Duh!)
calm kenny on the train- Done
episode 4
side with kenny when looking for a boat- Done
side with him when he wants to kill ben- Not done
DONT DROP BEN WHEN THAT PART COMES!- NOT DONE
He always needs something. It's like you are not playing this game but Kenny does.
And he always have someone to die in his agenda.
Proud with him, you Kenny lovers.
Clap clap clap
I didnt do exactly what you said i have to do and even saved Ben and i got the bro speech. Alot of those choices are simply doing the smart (leaving Lilly) or good (dont let Larry kill Duck) thing.
You bet im proud with him, I was nearly crying when he gave the bro speech.
Also Kiel and Yami, good harmony comes second to group survival. Lilly killing one person and then stealing the RV if you are stupid enough to side with her, is a much better result than everyone in the meat locker getting eaten and Carely/Ben getting ambushed AND Duck and Kat still in hands of cannibals.
I didnt do exactly what you said i have to do and even saved Ben and i got the bro speech. Alot of those choices are simply doing the smart (leaving Lilly) or good (dont let Larry kill Duck) thing.
You bet im proud with him, I was nearly crying when he gave the bro speech.
Also Kiel and Yami, good harmony comes second to group survival. Lilly killing one person and then stealing the RV if you are stupid enough to side with her, is a much better result than everyone in the meat locker getting eaten and Carely/Ben getting ambushed AND Duck and Kat still in hands of cannibals.
You are talking like there may be NO way to get out of that meatlocker except busting Larry's head ?
I don't know man, even if I know this will cost everybody's life, I don't think that I may understand such selfishness and such despotic approach.
I think Kenny killed Larry because he afraid of being eaten. I can't believe that he did that for his family. He is such a jerk to get out of that RV and to help his own son and wife.
And I'm saying this again and again; please don't name these two together in same sentence: Kenny and Lilly.
They both killed someone with no matter what reason for,
+++BUT PLUS+++,
Kenny made many many many MANY and many stupid things including his false babbling ( I even don't mention of him leaving Lee SUDDENLY right inside an ambush unnecessarly even though he could have been helpful when you go in some store for supplies ), he even couldn't capable of protecting his own family. And his desire for killing a teenager, Ben ? God knows, I myself wish him dead for how many times because of his stupidity but when it comes to real life? Man, it is just a poor boy.
His desire for killing a teenager- Ben ? What was that, huh?
Mentioning to kill a teenager? ? ?
He does not only want him driven away but he wants him dead?
Don't you see? Are you guys drinking while playing or am I too partial of Kenny?
I don't know.
Etc etc... This list lasts forever...
I don't know man, I may be the most angry player who find Kenny irritating all around the world.
In NO TIME LEFT, his true self will be revealed I think.
And I'm sure you'll remember that bro speech of him
You are talking like there may be NO way to get out of that meatlocker except busting Larry's head ?
I don't know man, even if I know this will cost everybody's life, I don't think that I may understand such selfishness and such despotic approach.
I think Kenny killed Larry because he afraid of being eaten. I can't believe that he did that for his family. He is such a jerk to get out of that RV and to help his own son and wife.
And I'm saying this again and again; please don't name these two together in same sentence: Kenny and Lilly.
They both killed someone with no matter what reason for,
+++BUT PLUS+++,
Kenny made many many many MANY and many stupid things including his false babbling ( I even don't mention of him leaving Lee SUDDENLY right inside an ambush unnecessarly even though he could have been helpful when you go in some store for supplies ), he even couldn't capable of protecting his own family. And his desire for killing a teenager, Ben ? God knows, I myself wish him dead for how many times because of his stupidity but when it comes to real life? Man, it is just a poor boy.
His desire for killing a teenager- Ben ? What was that, huh?
Mentioning to kill a teenager? ? ?
He does not only want him driven away but he wants him dead?
Don't you see? Are you guys drinking while playing or am I too partial of Kenny?
I don't know.
Etc etc... This list lasts forever...
I don't know man, I may be the most angry player who find Kenny irritating all around the world.
In NO TIME LEFT, his true self will be revealed I think.
And I'm sure you'll remember that bro speech of him
If Larry turns while in the meatlocker, he will eat them all and no one escapes. Its as simple as that
How is it selfish? He obviously cares more about his family than himself, he rushed a guy with a gun to save his son.
False babbling? Give me an example. And shit happens, you cant blame him for not being able to protect Kat and Duck 100% of the time. He was a little busy getting the RV started so people could actually escape. Besides its not like we did such a good job with Clem, did we? :P
And of course he wants Ben dead, the guy is responsible for his entire family getting killed. And it happened two days ago, if i was in Kenny's position i would want the kid dead.
If Larry turns while in the meatlocker, he will eat them all and no one escapes. Its as simple as that
How is it selfish? He obviously cares more about his family than himself, he rushed a guy with a gun to save his son.
False babbling? Give me an example. And shit happens, you cant blame him for not being able to protect Kat and Duck 100% of the time. He was a little busy getting the RV started so people could actually escape. Besides its not like we did such a good job with Clem, did we? :P
And of course he wants Ben dead, the guy is responsible for his entire family getting killed. And it happened two days ago, if i was in Kenny's position i would want the kid dead.
Larry was NOT dead, Lee was doing a heartmassage but then, guess what?
Even if he was dead, Kenny, man please have some respect to the family issues, it is not duty to handle the situation.
And if Larry would have turned, come on, they would easily take good care of that fat zombie Larry.
How long is a RV needed to get started?
Ben already said that he had been threaten by bandits. And he would have been never admitted his crime.
If I were Kenny, I'd blame myself for doing NOTHING when Lee mentioned about those bandits. It'd be much harder than blaming a poor guy, right?
Kenny babbling... Well, you will have to remember the boat issue, or the part he was drinking which I remember firstly.
Larry was NOT dead, Lee was doing a heartmassage but then, guess what?
Even if he was dead, Kenny, man please have some respect to the family issues, it is not duty to handle the situation.
And if Larry would have turned, come on, they would easily take good care of that fat zombie Larry.
How long is a RV needed to get started?
Ben already said that he had been threaten by bandits. And he would have been never admitted his crime. If I were Kenny, I'd blame myself for doing NOTHING when Lee mentioned about those bandits. It'd be much harder than blaming a poor guy, right?
Kenny babbling... Well, you will have to remember the boat issue, or the part he was drinking which I remember firstly.
kenny did try to do something (leave in the RV) but lilly would scream until he stopped going on about it, what boat issue are you talking about? the only plan anybody had to survive more than a few weeks? and kenny was drinking because he lost the family he loved less than 2 days ago
that guy in the video was obviously anti kenny and the part he was playing Lee didn't die or get hurt, he was fine and if you help kenny he will help you, that is fair enough considering we aren't playing a game/character where we are the hero of the galaxy we are a normal guy that is either friends or just acquaintances with kenny
kenny did try to do something (leave in the RV) but lilly would scream until he stopped going on about it
I must have missed the bit where he stopped bitching and tried to leave. In my game he was a complete coward who refused to leave unless everyone else went with him.
I guess, these opposite opinions are because we are all playing different games. All these different ideas are because of this.
Maybe, this game is creating heroes and heroines according to our choices? Which means "Kiel555", "YamiRaziel" and "I" have similar game choices hence "thestalkinghead", "Wrighty" and "Rock114" are on their own same scenario. Telltale Games is so clever ; they created a very charming story with many scandals among players' playthroughs.
I'm saying this because I'm reading many things about Kenny who is not even close to "my" Kenny, and Lilly who is completely someone else than "my" Lilly.
Tricky game it is
As it is said on another thread; to get "bros for life speech", you should perform these:
save duck instead of shawn
back at the drug store tell kenny to kick Larry's ass
episode 2
give at least one member of his family food (duck), DO NOT give it to either lilly or larry
kill larry
side with him when he says "there's gonna be fallout".
episode 3
agree with him when he asks:"have you made your mind yet about leaving the Hotel".
side with him when Lilly's paranoia starts
leave lilly on the road
calm kenny on the train
episode 4
side with kenny when looking for a boat
side with him when he wants to kill ben
DONT DROP BEN WHEN THAT PART COMES!
He always needs something. It's like you are not playing this game but Kenny does.
And he always have someone to die in his agenda.
I saved Shawn. I seriously felt like the guy needed much more help than Duck. He was stuck under a tractor for God's sake, and I knew Kenny would rescue Duck, so my gut feeling was Shawn, and I still regret not helping the both of them to this day. As for when we first met Larry, I went badass mode on him. "Because it's me, before anybody else!" And I can blame Kenny for what happened at Hershel's, but I won't. The guy was scared. I probably would've done the same thing in this new world.
Then there was Episode 2, where things didn't go so well. When the feeding came up, I started off with my usual Clementine, then I went over to Larry, to get on his good side. I had two left. And I went over to.......Ben. I'm sorry! He just looked so helpless! Anyway, I offered the last piece to Kenny (Doug wouldn't take it). And he told me to feed Duck, so I did. Then he got mad, but realized I was feeding the kids, so, meh. As the Episode progressed, he left me for dead after the meat locker scene. I helped Lilly, which I actually regret doing...
When Episode 3 starts, I can automatically tell he doesn't like me. So when he asks me about staying or leaving, I panic and say we should go. But when we get back to the motel, I tell him the place is fine. Another horrible decision. When the time comes, I finish off Duck for him, and had to end up fighting him on the train.
Then Episode 4 comes in, and I notice that he treats everyone the same throughout the episode. Depressed and wrecked. But then Lee gets bit, and I turn to Kenny, getting the neutral speech, and I tell him I need him, when he says I've only been looking out for myself. I still feel sorry for the guy, and still care for him.
Basically for me, I wanted to help him, but everything that I thought was right was turning him against me. Eventually to the point where he decides I don't care what he thinks. That's why I have my Pro-Kenny second playthrough, but it just doesn't feel right...
Did the writers really intend to make Kenny this unlikable? I guess its realistic. Sometimes people you think you can trust betray you and they are not who they seem. He's the Shane of the Walking Dead game for me.
Larry was NOT dead, Lee was doing a heartmassage but then, guess what?
Even if he was dead, Kenny, man please have some respect to the family issues, it is not duty to handle the situation.
And if Larry would have turned, come on, they would easily take good care of that fat zombie Larry.
How long is a RV needed to get started?
Ben already said that he had been threaten by bandits. And he would have been never admitted his crime.
If I were Kenny, I'd blame myself for doing NOTHING when Lee mentioned about those bandits. It'd be much harder than blaming a poor guy, right?
Kenny babbling... Well, you will have to remember the boat issue, or the part he was drinking which I remember firstly.
Larry's heart had stopped. Not to mention, last time he had a heart attack we had to get him medicine and im pretty sure CPR doesnt magically repair the heart anyway. You just dont know if he was dead. Also "respect to the family issues" shouldnt risk everyone getting devoured. Larry possibly turning into a zombie and killing everyone is not a simple "family issue". And Larry isnt fat, he is buff and huge. Not to mention no one in the meatlocker had any weapons.
The RV engine wasnt starting, the thing was old and needed repair. Not to mention, Kenny hadnt finished those repairs when the bandits attacked.
And why didnt Ben admit his crime? If Ben hadnt been stupid and actually told the group, Kenny's family would still be alive. I agree that Ben doesnt deserve to die, but i would feel different if the guy was responsible for my family getting wiped out a few days ago. How would you feel if Ben's stupidity got Clem and Carely killed? (if they were your family).
And what was the boat issue? Part where he was drinking?
You can keep your "Larry was dead" speech, but I won't make it true. Not two months ago, not now, not ever. Larry wasn't dead yet, he might have died, but he could've survived also.
The way Kenny approached the situation was beyond horrible, not to mention it wasn't his place to approach it at all.
You tell us to imagine stuff, now you imagine that Clem is in danger and she needs your and Kenny's help, and he just refuses to help you.
Oh, wait, you don't have to imagine it! It happens in episode 4. Congratulations!
Kenny needed my Lee many times, and I helped him in most of them. Lilly needed me only this once, I helped her and he not only backstabbed us both, but he also had the insolence so blame me for it? Fuck Kenny!
In my playthrough I gave him the chance to leave with his family in the RV. His asnwer was "yeah so Lilly and Carley will stay with you, and who do I got? Ben?".
He wants to control people more than he cares about his family. Deny it as much as you want, but he actually enjoys giving orders.
For God's sake he wanted us to pack into that broken RV when he hadn't even repaired it. It was just that he had to complain, whine and do it his way.
The motel was a great place to be. Macon was close for supplies and had Ben told us about his deal with the bandits, we could've been prepared and taken them out.
There are bandits and evil people everywhere - Crowford, Woodbury, Atlanta... the St. John's farm... There are worse places to be than that Motor Inn. At least there we know the surrounding area and we know who we are dealing with.
You can keep your "Larry was dead" speech, but I won't make it true. Not two months ago, not now, not ever. Larry wasn't dead yet, he might have died, but he could've survived also.
You can keep your "Larry was dead" speech, but I won't make it true. Not two months ago, not now, not ever. Larry wasn't dead yet, he might have died, but he could've survived also.
The way Kenny approached the situation was beyond horrible, not to mention it wasn't his place to approach it at all.
You tell us to imagine stuff, now you imagine that Clem is in danger and she needs your and Kenny's help, and he just refuses to help you.
Oh, wait, you don't have to imagine it! It happens in episode 4. Congratulations!
Kenny needed my Lee many times, and I helped him in most of them. Lilly needed me only this once, I helped her and he not only backstabbed us both, but he also had the insolence so blame me for it? Fuck Kenny!
In my playthrough I gave him the chance to leave with his family in the RV. His asnwer was "yeah so Lilly and Carley will stay with you, and who do I got? Ben?".
He wants to control people more than he cares about his family. Deny it as much as you want, but he actually enjoys giving orders.
For God's sake he wanted us to pack into that broken RV when he hadn't even repaired it. It was just that he had to complain, whine and do it his way.
The motel was a great place to be. Macon was close for supplies and had Ben told us about his deal with the bandits, we could've been prepared and taken them out.
There are bandits and evil people everywhere - Crowford, Woodbury, Atlanta... the St. John's farm... There are worse places to be than that Motor Inn. At least there we know the surrounding area and we know who we are dealing with.
I agree with you, Larry might have been alive. But is it really worth the risk? After what happened after his last heart attack and the stress he is under now, is it really worth gambling everyone's lives on him being alive? And sure Kenny killed(?) him in a gruesome and traumatising way but theres no other way to do it and they didnt have much time to decide anyway. They obviously reaminate quickly. Anyway it had to be Kenny's place to decide, it involves and affects everyone in the meatlocker. Its not like Lilly could do what needs to be done and you're Lee wasnt going to do the right thing.
And Kenny refused to help YOUR Lee because you obviously dont have the guts to do the smart thing, so you will probably get yourself and him killed, and because you gambled with his and his families lives on low odds. Also Lilly needed you're help once, and she then stole the RV and left ya to die. Nice one.
Kenny doesnt enjoy giving orders, he's just trying to make sure his family survive. I dont blame him for not wanting to be by himself and his family with only Ben for help. He doesnt want to control you but he does know they have a better chance with you and so he tries to convince you. And he obviously wasnt finished repairing it when the bandits attacked. If he actually had time it probably would have been in better shape.
And the Motel was a rubbish place to be. Loads of bandits camped right outside you're home. Macon was probably looted dry since they have been in the Motel for so long, the pharmacy was empty. And even if Ben had told you about their plan, you cant really get ready and just deal with that many bandits and then the walkers which were attracted by the gunfire. Its not even certain that they would have had enough ammo to deal with them. Also did you see how quickly their defenses fell to the bandits and how they swarmed in? Other places might not have huge groups of bandits outside you're base, furious at you for destroying their food supply. Other places might have friendly survivors or at least a safer place to settle down. Nope, the Motel sucked.
Comments
You traitor, i thought you were a fellow Kenny lover :P
Seriously though how is Kenny stupid for saying what happened in Macon? He is trying to tell Lilly what Macon is really like and how dangerous going in there really is. She's not the one taking the risk, she needs to know. And although i didnt actually kill Ben, im not suprised he said he was proud of you for doing so. The guy had recently killed his family and he probably felt some sick satisfaction in him being gone as im sure many other players had for his role in Carely's death. And we didnt even know her that well!
To all you darned Lilly fans, you can lose everyone's loyalty. Do the wrong things and Christa and Omid will leave you on your own as will Ben. And at least its possible to get Kenny on your side, so matter how kind and thoughtful and helpful you are to Lilly and no matter how you treat her dad, she still absolutely screws you over and leaves you to die, stealing you're only mode of transport and leaving you with the people you obviously hate so much (as well as a person recently bit) So much for her friendship
No problem with them leaving me behind IF they have a reasonable purpose. I mean IF they act with a logical reason, it is ok with me.
At least they won't keep babbling about a missing boat after all that hardwork of mine, or they won't fall in love with drinking while a lonely little girl wandering around in an empty&creepy manor.
And at least Omid and Christa would know how to shoot a walker if they are half of Lilly. (Remember where Kenny were when those many walkers attacked to the Motor Inn ...)
I don't know if you watched one of very first Walking Dead promo videos as there can be seen, Christa is shooting herself in the head in the woods. Maybe it is because she is bitten, or Omid is long gone. Mark my words, she is dead already
I don't think this "who comes or not" issue effects the whole episode. I mean eighter you choose them to come or not, they will supposedly rejoin with you at some exact point of the final chapter of this story.
Well, again about Kenny... Regardless, he is an useless dumbass. He would shoot me and then himself on Finale as it begins! That would be best for him
I prefer Kenny though, to me his ideas make more sense and are better for the group as a whole. Another reason I prefer Kenny though is because from what we've seen so far he hasn't gone psycho after losing everything. Also it might be more of a benefit to side with Kenny because he can be with you in episode 5; whereas Lilly is gone in episode 3. Some people think she might come back, but I don't think she will :rolleyes:
Anyway, it's all just my opinion. We either side with Lilly or Kenny depending on our own sense of right and wrong
Can you really blame Kenny for drinking? He had lost his family, the only thing he cared about a couple of days ago and had realised that there was no way of finding a boat and safety, that they were trapped there. He was in a empty and SAFE house and probably assumed Clem wasnt so stupid as to wander off outside. And i dont know what you're saying with that other sentence.
Sorry but the promo video was actually Katjaa shooting herself, they just put in Christa's sprite so they wouldnt spoil the story in the trailer.
And i think the who comes or not will be important. I bet those who come with you survive and those who dont are eaten by the horde which has now reached Savannah or killed by walkie talkie guy.
And Kenny is an all round awesome guy!
The howl from players who thought Kenny was their friend at the end of e4 said it all. So many posts of betrayal and disappointment when Kenny refused to help rescue Clem. I was not surprised. Fortunately, there is a way to "fix" your broken game by going back and selecting a dialogue option that you otherwise would not have selected. Whew...the things you have to do to keep Kenny on your side...talk about high maintenance! Yep...he's a true friend :rolleyes:.
I know Lilly IS a murderer and I don't try to reason her behaviour but,
1)She was "so sure" that someone was helping the bandits: and it was True.
2)She was just too depressed and angry with that traitor issue, as it caused a little boy to get bitten, and the lost of the motor inn: and it was True.
3)She ran away, but "I think" she was too ashamed for what she did to continue with the group and maybe she thought it won't be good to be with them neighter for them nor herself: and I think it was True.
4)No matter what, she were always strong and she were in a good harmony with others until she lost her father: and it is True.
5) So, I think she is not a cruel person but she has a very dramatic doom: and it is True for me.
Can I really blame Kenny for drinking?
Yes I can. If he has completely lost his hope for survival; what is he doing along them? I can understand his bad feelings after he saw that boy in the attic and I can understand he is drinking because of his grief, but what about Clem? How can he turn his eyes away from her?
If I went somewhere with someone else, and tragically if we got seperated with them when their little girl remained with my side; I'd look after her to the death. Lee might be away, Lee might get lost or he might disappear by a sever hole, and what should Kenny do after him? His first thing to do after they came back to their shelter was drinking! Sorry, but I can't forgive this.
He caused Clem to get lost, but even so he continued reprove Lee severely about the boat, about how they will die etc etc...
It was so selfish. Everyone else were in the same situation there and even Christa didn't act like him.
"and probably assumed Clem wasnt so stupid as to wander off outside..." you are saying.
Man, you shouldn't suppose,guess -or whatever- a child that he/she might do or not. You should keep your eyes on them. As always Lee were trying to do. A child is a child, nothing more.
"And i dont know what you're saying with that other sentence. "-
I meant that Omid&Christa is much more valuable than Kenny as a sharpshooter if they have half balls Lilly had
I really respect your feelings about Kenny my friend, but come here, sit and try to be more reasonable with it. Admit it at least... He is the ultimate loser
P.S: And Kenny is right, he really messed up everything
I don't want that man anywhere near me. He's like poison - slowly destroying everything he touches.
If I had the chance I would take Lilly and Clem and leave the group right after ep. 2 or better. I would force Kenny to leave before the whole drama of ep. 3
You interpretered my feelings! It means trouble everytime he opens his mouth.
The thing is, the name of the thread and the amount of the replies create a good quote:
F... Kenny
Dude, I AM a Kenny lover! I'd take him over Lilly any day, but he has faults. Faults which make him human. I'd personally prefer him to NOT mention the stuff that happens when it's just me and him on a supply run or something like that. He doesn't think before he speaks, but that makes him seem more real. I don't hold it against him. Him telling Lilly how dangerous it was seemed necessary, because from that I gleaned that Lee and Kenny take all the risk for the supplies that Lilly didn't even bother to tell us were going missing. And I totally understand why Kenny would be proud of me for bringing his family's killer to justice, because I know that's how he saw it. I just felt like a total piece of shit for dropping him, to the point I hoped everyone would forget about Ben like they did Chuck, so I just didn't want to be reminded of it.
And agreed about Lilly. She'll abandon you no matter how nice you are to her, after murdering another member of the group for no reason. If you're loyal to Lilly, she'll up and abandon your ass. If you're loyal to Kenny, he'll die for you without hesitation. Because to him, you're his family. The only family he has left. The reason you have to side with Kenny more is because he's been with you from the beginning, whereas there are absolutely NO major choices involving Ben until the bell tower, and Christa and Omid have only just joined up with your group. The only big choice with them is the train situation with the herd. I'd say a good half of the major choices so far affect your relationship with Kenny.
Hehe, it is weird how everyone reads different things from characters. Maybe this is because we are all playing same scenarios with different dialog choices.
The Kenny I met is NOTHING closer to your description.
I myself can not describe him with the words family-Lee-Clem or something like "buddy". For me, it is not going near of a "friendship" with my Lee and that Kenny have between them. And I don't think he sees Lee as a family member.
I can simply prefer a confused Lilly to a shifty Kenny.
P.S: Man, what kind of a man can still walk around of a person after he has killed his/her father deliberately without no hesitation? Here we talk about company, not walking around though. They could wait and take care of the situation if Larry ever tries to turn. If Larry was about to turn, I'm sure Lilly should have been more reasonable and more brave with the result. But unfortunately Kenny has no brain!
And that brick is all he understands from the title "family"
She did tell Lee. Plus you kinda both killed her father, Rock114. Your Lee and Kenny, so you don't have the right to complain about that
here's the thing here:
some people just want to protect the women to POSSIBLY be "boyfriend girlfriend" sort of relationship.
some just do because they're like: "ohhh females before males".
some just do it for the sake of it.
many women just do it because she seems nice
______________________________
now with Kenny:
they side with him because he seems like a good guy.
others for no apparent reason.
and others for the sake of it or the outcomes.
________________________________________
whatever it is It's because people have different views. :P
But in my game I couldn't trust Lilly after she blew someone's head off right in front of Clem based on a hunch. At least Kenny had a reason for smashing Larry, he could very well have turned and killed them all. He "might" have jumped the gun, but Lilly did without question. It's her way or the highway, and I don't like her way of killing anyone she simply doesn't like. Kenny may leave you for dead but he's never pulled out a gun and blown out your brains just because he doesn't like you.
Haha, I don't really want to offend anyone but I watched a friend of mine while he was playing his own scenario; he still stood with the girls and he is gay.
How do you explain that? :P
@Rock114- Man, I'm respectful to your angle but from my angle Lilly didn't killed Carley just because she doesn't like her.
Many complicated feelings were there. She was stressed, confused and mad.(I'm sure she is a bit mental ill, too) There was a situation that she was trying to explain to all others and Carley popped out and seemed like she was the leader of the opposide idea. And when Lilly recognized Lee was listening to her, and after Carley's unfortunate insults, it became to a desperate moment for Lilly. But she was damn guilty, I admit!
You are right with your angle at certain points. But there is something in the world entitle : Respect. Respect to other people's feelings&sufferings.
On Walking Dead mini series-on tv, or comics, this kind of situations occured. But have you ever seen a Rick who grabs a rock and throws on Amy's brain in front of her sister Andrea?
Probably not.
I'm not a Psychologist but...
he might just be was it for different out comes.
or he's changing from being gay (very doubt it though).
he wants to see romance.
that's pretty much I've got really :P
I think it is a bit more complicated than that. When Kenny killed Larry, he popped the bubble. We stopped perceiving ourselves as a functioning group and for Lilly this feeling was heightened tenfold. Why? Because she was the victim. It was her father that got killed because one (or two) man decided to play Gods and took the law into their own hands. In order to counter this tendency she became obsessed with control. It was her way of being sure you won't kill her or somebody else just because you like to.
In my playthrough there was a lot of trust between Lilly and Lee. In her eyes, our group was Lilly and Clem. Ben was new and unreliable, Katja and Duck was with Kenny (the enemy) and Carley... well she was a sort of an enemy too, with her constantly trying to take no sides and be (the good one). Lilly knew she was already perceived as the bad one, because of all the tough choices she had to make (rationing the food, being in charge, taking responsibility).
So when we found there was a traitor and the bandits attack, apparently she had her reasons to doubt Carley (things that happened off-screen). Lilly was convinced that Carley was the traitor. It makes perfect sense.
Carley once again tried to play the good girl card and this time accused Lilly of being the bad one. Carley made herself the enemy in Lilly's eyes.
There was a traitor and Carley identified herself as the one, not knowing/accepting Lee's discovery. There wasn't anybody else. Ben was always dumb and scared when he talked to Lilly (she has no reason to even consider that he would have the balls to deal with bandits). It couldn't be Kenny too. Even though she hated the guy, she knew he cares about his family and Lilly speaks Family. She knows it can't be him and she knows it can't be Lee (for being a friend, or simply having Clem in his life).
So it had to be Carley and it still makes perfect sense. Nobody knew anything about her past, she had no ties to any of them and she was female. She was not only trying to make Lilly look bad by not taking sides or doing tough choices ever. She was also trying to charm her way into Lee's heart, which could also indicate she could've been a sly traitor.
Of course, Lilly was wrong, but if you're not an omniscient spectator as we are, it is perfectly plausable.
So what happens then? The man once again take law into their hands and ONCE again disregard her opinion. Now that's the moment where her female insecurity kicks in. She was already overpowered by those man once, resulting in her fathers death. She's still traumatized by that accident that occured only a week ago, but now the other pretty girl is trying to take her position as alpha female by making her look bad.
Well, that results in a bullet in Carley's face.
You can see that she regrets it the second she does it. She's afraid of what she's done.
How can you not take back in the RV such a broken poor creature?
Kenny didn't go throw any of this in ep. 2. Heck, even his family was not in the immediate threat of Larry turning. He could've waited a few more seconds, but he chooses his own family over other people's. He doesn't even regret the choice. In ep. 3 he even dares to talk back. All the bad things that happened in ep. 3 are consequences of Kenny's dumb actions in the meat locker and after that.
P.S I just realized why I hate so much the sequence where if you chose to side with Kenny, Lee holds Lilly's hands behind her back while Kenny kills Larry.
It has always reminded me of a rape scene. A breach of one's personality.
Lee overpowers her, because he's bigger and stronger, leaving her powerless, while Kenny does something horrible.
I think the damage Kenny dealt to Lilly was equal to rape. He could've done it and ep.3 wouldn't have been much different as to Lilly's reactions and behavior.
And that's the point.
Mark his words.
I'm sure everyone will see the real Kenny in the last episode, as they pospone.
Then only reason I ever saw for her to doubt Carley was because Carley didn't like her. She gives Carley the death glare when she calls Kenny "Boss" in episode 1 because Lilly knows it means she can't be in charge. Lilly was always about control, and when people didn't fall in line they became the enemy. If she'd had her way, Lee and Clem would have died in front of the drug store in Episode 1. I never once heard ANYONE say "Please lead us Lilly". She put herself in charge, which she made perfectly clear in the drug store, and then wonders why people don't like her.
Why, exactly, does not picking sides make Carley a wannabe good girl? She chose not to get involved with the Lilly/Kenny power struggle which was actually a good idea! If people begin picking sides the group splits and people get hurt/killed. I tryed to be neutral Lee and never picked sides until the meat locker forced me to because I knew that mediation was the only way to keep the group together. Carley picking a side, ANY side, would have made the situation even worse. I wish everyone else had followed her example and made both Lilly and Kenny see sense. Lilly didn't care she shot Carley, she tried to justify it after it happened. That was cold, calculated murder on her part because Carley talked back and didn't fall in line. Lilly WAS the bad guy because she insisted on playing God right after the group barely escaped the motel alive. I considered us a functioning (if barely) group right up until Lilly blew Carley's head off. Maybe if I'd saved Doug I'd have let her back on, because she didn't intend to kill him at least.
The straw that broke the camel's back was actually Ben ya know. Lilly and Kenny's arguments caused tension in the group, and Larry's death only made matters worse, but the group was still functioning a week later. In the immediate aftermath of the bandit raid brought on by Ben's secrecy, one person left/got left behind, and three more died. I think Lilly probably would have shot someone anyway if she hadn't been messed up, because stealing from the group is undermining her authority, and that's something she just can't stand. Without Larry to enforce her laws, everything fell apart for her.
All these are predictions like ours' are.
I like Lilly cause I don't believe her behavior is because of her personality. Or I don't believe she made that one big terrible mistake for a reason different than a sudden nervous breakdown. Her reactions always seemed so desperate to me, maybe I pity her, I don't know. I think she is a common victim, not the evil itself.
The thing is; I don't guess this game express the characters' personalities to us by our choices. For example I sided with Kenny at first when we entered the drugstore. So, Larry got his heart bad... But even in this situation Lilly didn't treat me like I'm a cruel man. She was all reasonable with the situation which was very unfortunate for her father that he was wrong because Duck was not bitten. And she treated like a grown up; so logical, so honest.
The thing I'm trying to say is, she is not as that despotic as you mentioned. If you can be kind to her just a little, you'd see she is very cooperative.
I know that we can't come in an agreement with protagonists that we love;
But please answer me one last question:
How many times did Kenny and Lilly brought the things on an edge of a knife? I don't mean messing things in terrible ways. But I'm talking just about negative moments those two brought us face to face? Look for the bad situations. Please be honest to yourself.
All the Best, I really am tired of this Kenny&Lilly mess... But yes, Kenny is a dumbass!
Kenny went against me in the meat locker and caused the loss of my friends by his foolish actions. What upset me the most was when he wanted to be thanked for brutalizing Lilly in that meat locker. I was more that happy to tell Kenny to go fuck himself at the end of e4.
save duck instead of shawn
back at the drug store tell kenny to kick Larry's ass
episode 2
give at least one member of his family food (duck), DO NOT give it to either lilly or larry
kill larry
side with him when he says "there's gonna be fallout".
episode 3
agree with him when he asks:"have you made your mind yet about leaving the Hotel".
side with him when Lilly's paranoia starts
leave lilly on the road
calm kenny on the train
episode 4
side with kenny when looking for a boat
side with him when he wants to kill ben
DONT DROP BEN WHEN THAT PART COMES!
He always needs something. It's like you are not playing this game but Kenny does.
And he always have someone to die in his agenda.
Proud with him, you Kenny lovers.
Clap clap clap
In the meat locker scene, everybody was in danger. However, Katjaa and Duck were not in the immediate danger of Larry turning. They needed Katja, and if they want her to cooperate, they needed Duck alive. We can even say the were the safest of all.
You say that Lilly cannot stand people disobeying her. I have a hard time believing that. Lilly not wanting Carley to risk their lives and save some dumb strangers that yell like idiots is actually super smart. In the world of TWD you never, ever rush to strangers like that. They can be bandits, they can be anything. Carley disobeys and saves our group. Lilly yells for a while, but doesn't do anything.
Now, what does Kenny do when you disobey his orders? My Lee decided to help Larry, but he didn't let us. He was the first to take law into his hands. He was the first executioner. He was the first to disrespect our choices.
You cannot expect that such actions won't effect us. It traumatized Lilly and it affected my Lee. I started hating the guy and Lilly slowly became unstable.
As for Carley, why is not taking sides a bad thing? It's simple, really, somebody has to make decisions. When to people argue as to what's best for the group, you got to speak your mind. You can't avoid making decisions just because they are hard or because they will make you look bad.
Lilly does them, Kenny does them, even Lee does them. Carley just stays in the middle, because it suits her to be the good girl. She doesn't have to ration food right? It won't be Larry, Mark or Kenny who are gonna hate her for not feeding them. They are gonna hate Lilly. It's very convenient to never make your hands dirty.
Why hasn't Carley ever been in a conflict? Because she never speaks her mind. She tells Lee afterwards, but she never really shows her position.
Lilly was never the bad guy. She was one of the people who did the most for this group, who were ready to make what others were afraid of. She was a great leader, until Kenny ruined her life.
I didnt do exactly what you said i have to do and even saved Ben and i got the bro speech. Alot of those choices are simply doing the smart (leaving Lilly) or good (dont let Larry kill Duck) thing.
You bet im proud with him, I was nearly crying when he gave the bro speech.
Also Kiel and Yami, good harmony comes second to group survival. Lilly killing one person and then stealing the RV if you are stupid enough to side with her, is a much better result than everyone in the meat locker getting eaten and Carely/Ben getting ambushed AND Duck and Kat still in hands of cannibals.
You are talking like there may be NO way to get out of that meatlocker except busting Larry's head ?
I don't know man, even if I know this will cost everybody's life, I don't think that I may understand such selfishness and such despotic approach.
I think Kenny killed Larry because he afraid of being eaten. I can't believe that he did that for his family. He is such a jerk to get out of that RV and to help his own son and wife.
And I'm saying this again and again; please don't name these two together in same sentence: Kenny and Lilly.
They both killed someone with no matter what reason for,
+++BUT PLUS+++,
Kenny made many many many MANY and many stupid things including his false babbling ( I even don't mention of him leaving Lee SUDDENLY right inside an ambush unnecessarly even though he could have been helpful when you go in some store for supplies ), he even couldn't capable of protecting his own family. And his desire for killing a teenager, Ben ? God knows, I myself wish him dead for how many times because of his stupidity but when it comes to real life? Man, it is just a poor boy.
His desire for killing a teenager- Ben ? What was that, huh?
Mentioning to kill a teenager? ? ?
He does not only want him driven away but he wants him dead?
Don't you see? Are you guys drinking while playing or am I too partial of Kenny?
I don't know.
Etc etc... This list lasts forever...
I don't know man, I may be the most angry player who find Kenny irritating all around the world.
In NO TIME LEFT, his true self will be revealed I think.
And I'm sure you'll remember that bro speech of him
If Larry turns while in the meatlocker, he will eat them all and no one escapes. Its as simple as that
How is it selfish? He obviously cares more about his family than himself, he rushed a guy with a gun to save his son.
False babbling? Give me an example. And shit happens, you cant blame him for not being able to protect Kat and Duck 100% of the time. He was a little busy getting the RV started so people could actually escape. Besides its not like we did such a good job with Clem, did we? :P
And of course he wants Ben dead, the guy is responsible for his entire family getting killed. And it happened two days ago, if i was in Kenny's position i would want the kid dead.
Larry was NOT dead, Lee was doing a heartmassage but then, guess what?
Even if he was dead, Kenny, man please have some respect to the family issues, it is not duty to handle the situation.
And if Larry would have turned, come on, they would easily take good care of that fat zombie Larry.
How long is a RV needed to get started?
Ben already said that he had been threaten by bandits. And he would have been never admitted his crime.
If I were Kenny, I'd blame myself for doing NOTHING when Lee mentioned about those bandits. It'd be much harder than blaming a poor guy, right?
Kenny babbling... Well, you will have to remember the boat issue, or the part he was drinking which I remember firstly.
This guy may be me. Please just look at that guy's face around 09:45 . Just priceless
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdrVfLuKO4g
kenny did try to do something (leave in the RV) but lilly would scream until he stopped going on about it, what boat issue are you talking about? the only plan anybody had to survive more than a few weeks? and kenny was drinking because he lost the family he loved less than 2 days ago
that guy in the video was obviously anti kenny and the part he was playing Lee didn't die or get hurt, he was fine and if you help kenny he will help you, that is fair enough considering we aren't playing a game/character where we are the hero of the galaxy we are a normal guy that is either friends or just acquaintances with kenny
Love the reaction! That bastard Kenny....I knew he was going to leave Lee to die, again, but it was still shocking!
I must have missed the bit where he stopped bitching and tried to leave. In my game he was a complete coward who refused to leave unless everyone else went with him.
Maybe, this game is creating heroes and heroines according to our choices? Which means "Kiel555", "YamiRaziel" and "I" have similar game choices hence "thestalkinghead", "Wrighty" and "Rock114" are on their own same scenario. Telltale Games is so clever ; they created a very charming story with many scandals among players' playthroughs.
I'm saying this because I'm reading many things about Kenny who is not even close to "my" Kenny, and Lilly who is completely someone else than "my" Lilly.
Tricky game it is
You must be proud to have the thread where the maximum replies are.
But no surprise with that enormous title. Lets say it again;
" f*** kenny" !
choices by: TheNNerdGamer
lol
Then there was Episode 2, where things didn't go so well. When the feeding came up, I started off with my usual Clementine, then I went over to Larry, to get on his good side. I had two left. And I went over to.......Ben. I'm sorry! He just looked so helpless! Anyway, I offered the last piece to Kenny (Doug wouldn't take it). And he told me to feed Duck, so I did. Then he got mad, but realized I was feeding the kids, so, meh. As the Episode progressed, he left me for dead after the meat locker scene. I helped Lilly, which I actually regret doing...
When Episode 3 starts, I can automatically tell he doesn't like me. So when he asks me about staying or leaving, I panic and say we should go. But when we get back to the motel, I tell him the place is fine. Another horrible decision. When the time comes, I finish off Duck for him, and had to end up fighting him on the train.
Then Episode 4 comes in, and I notice that he treats everyone the same throughout the episode. Depressed and wrecked. But then Lee gets bit, and I turn to Kenny, getting the neutral speech, and I tell him I need him, when he says I've only been looking out for myself. I still feel sorry for the guy, and still care for him.
Basically for me, I wanted to help him, but everything that I thought was right was turning him against me. Eventually to the point where he decides I don't care what he thinks. That's why I have my Pro-Kenny second playthrough, but it just doesn't feel right...
Larry's heart had stopped. Not to mention, last time he had a heart attack we had to get him medicine and im pretty sure CPR doesnt magically repair the heart anyway. You just dont know if he was dead. Also "respect to the family issues" shouldnt risk everyone getting devoured. Larry possibly turning into a zombie and killing everyone is not a simple "family issue". And Larry isnt fat, he is buff and huge. Not to mention no one in the meatlocker had any weapons.
The RV engine wasnt starting, the thing was old and needed repair. Not to mention, Kenny hadnt finished those repairs when the bandits attacked.
And why didnt Ben admit his crime? If Ben hadnt been stupid and actually told the group, Kenny's family would still be alive. I agree that Ben doesnt deserve to die, but i would feel different if the guy was responsible for my family getting wiped out a few days ago. How would you feel if Ben's stupidity got Clem and Carely killed? (if they were your family).
And what was the boat issue? Part where he was drinking?
The way Kenny approached the situation was beyond horrible, not to mention it wasn't his place to approach it at all.
You tell us to imagine stuff, now you imagine that Clem is in danger and she needs your and Kenny's help, and he just refuses to help you.
Oh, wait, you don't have to imagine it! It happens in episode 4. Congratulations!
Kenny needed my Lee many times, and I helped him in most of them. Lilly needed me only this once, I helped her and he not only backstabbed us both, but he also had the insolence so blame me for it? Fuck Kenny!
In my playthrough I gave him the chance to leave with his family in the RV. His asnwer was "yeah so Lilly and Carley will stay with you, and who do I got? Ben?".
He wants to control people more than he cares about his family. Deny it as much as you want, but he actually enjoys giving orders.
For God's sake he wanted us to pack into that broken RV when he hadn't even repaired it. It was just that he had to complain, whine and do it his way.
The motel was a great place to be. Macon was close for supplies and had Ben told us about his deal with the bandits, we could've been prepared and taken them out.
There are bandits and evil people everywhere - Crowford, Woodbury, Atlanta... the St. John's farm... There are worse places to be than that Motor Inn. At least there we know the surrounding area and we know who we are dealing with.
correction:
No one knows if he was alive or dead
I think Yami meant with his comment that:
No one in that meatlocker has sounded this quote before Kenny went with that salt thing:
"Oh gosh.. OK, he is dead..."
I think this is fair enough here to guess if he was NO DOUBT dead or not.
I agree with you, Larry might have been alive. But is it really worth the risk? After what happened after his last heart attack and the stress he is under now, is it really worth gambling everyone's lives on him being alive? And sure Kenny killed(?) him in a gruesome and traumatising way but theres no other way to do it and they didnt have much time to decide anyway. They obviously reaminate quickly. Anyway it had to be Kenny's place to decide, it involves and affects everyone in the meatlocker. Its not like Lilly could do what needs to be done and you're Lee wasnt going to do the right thing.
And Kenny refused to help YOUR Lee because you obviously dont have the guts to do the smart thing, so you will probably get yourself and him killed, and because you gambled with his and his families lives on low odds. Also Lilly needed you're help once, and she then stole the RV and left ya to die. Nice one.
Kenny doesnt enjoy giving orders, he's just trying to make sure his family survive. I dont blame him for not wanting to be by himself and his family with only Ben for help. He doesnt want to control you but he does know they have a better chance with you and so he tries to convince you. And he obviously wasnt finished repairing it when the bandits attacked. If he actually had time it probably would have been in better shape.
And the Motel was a rubbish place to be. Loads of bandits camped right outside you're home. Macon was probably looted dry since they have been in the Motel for so long, the pharmacy was empty. And even if Ben had told you about their plan, you cant really get ready and just deal with that many bandits and then the walkers which were attracted by the gunfire. Its not even certain that they would have had enough ammo to deal with them. Also did you see how quickly their defenses fell to the bandits and how they swarmed in? Other places might not have huge groups of bandits outside you're base, furious at you for destroying their food supply. Other places might have friendly survivors or at least a safer place to settle down. Nope, the Motel sucked.