Right gonna speak my peice here and try and leave it at that to prevent things from getting more out of control.
If you really think that this thread and the Kenny situation in general hasn't gotten out of control then I don't know what to tell you. I do discuss other topics and enjoy them way more. A lot of people in these topics seem more angry than entertained imo. I think sometimes these kind of topics can suck people in (a bit like a shit but addictive TV programme or a drug). I dunno about video games or other stuff being pointless, but I know for damn sure that these constant Kenny arguements are. I'm clearly not the only one who feels this way either.
Topics can definitely be unhealthy without name calling or abuse.The fact that the OP mentioned Kenny Apologists in his thread suggests that he isn't knew and knows exactly how things work here. Sounded like he was angry that people liked Kenny and wanted them to explain why, then actually wanting a sensible discussion.
Memes in every page? I see at least one Meme per page on most of the Threads in this entire Forum now, pointless arguments that never get re… moresolved? Well whether they're pointless to those involved is entirely subjective, in fact, playing games is pretty pointless in the perspectives of some individuals, we do it anyway but it wouldn't make them right either way, so why can't we have arguments to pass the time, to get some entertainment(for those of us who actually enjoy discussing things and debating) and to see what other people think of the topic - remember, some people are new to the Forums and have every right to ask questions about why people like or dislike a character. In my opinion, these types of Threads are the reason some Thread Sections are still popular, you can tell that some of the most Viewed and most Commented on Topics are Arguments - because people like to express their opinions as well as disagree with others' perspectives… [view original content]
Uh yeah Ben was responsible for the group getting attacked, and his son dying.
Actually the food Ben was giving them was to get the … morebandits off their backs (and seeing if he could rescue his friend), which worked until one of their deliveries went missing after Lee took it. If they had attacked before then the RV wouldn't have worked (since Kenny was still working on it) and they'd have died earlier.
Remind me, what does Kenny need to apologize for exactly?
Saving Lee's life at the drugstore when Larry tries to leave him for dead?
S… moreaving everyone in the meat locker by killing Larry before he could turn?
Fixing the RV which saves the group when the bandits attack?
Continuing to lead the group into finding a boat even after losing his wife and son?
Helping Lee rescue Clementine even if you didn't initially get him to come with you?
Being willing to sacrifice himself to save Christa/Ben?
Taking a beating to protect Clementine?
Helping Rebecca deliver the baby even after his new girlfriend just died?
Being willing to sacrifice himself to keep Clem and AJ safe at Wellington?
Or are you just mad because he hurt your feelings?
That is partially because she dragged around someone who was hell bent on dying. Her sister refused to move when they were being attacked by Walkers. Jane was the one who had been making Jamie get up everyday and not just lay down on the ground and die , along with the added stress of finding food , shelter , and defending them both from zombies. Can't you see how she might feel ambiguous to people who can't protect themselves?
i think she was a reverse molly: pretty much molly with reversed morals. Molly talks about how we shouldnt leave ppl because they re sick an… mored jane thinks that babys and people who have diseases are liabilitys and she wanst to leave them for example: Sarah who is hinted at having some sort of anxiety disease in episode 1 by carlos and AJ who jane dint want to see being born due to he being a ´´liability´´
For me Kenny has always come off as Selfish. What kindness you get is often self absorbing kindness he does for himself.. in the form of feel good about himself medicine. . His selfishness even passed over into Season 2. I also personally blame him for most of the Deaths in the game as Kenny always seems to be after a mcguffin which in turn is often the main reason for people getting killed, as he cattle prods the group to keep pushing for that mcguffin. Season 1 it was the Boat, and the Atlantic. Season 2 it was Wellington, both in all respects in the eyes of any logical person were Pipe Dreams... even if Wellington in the end ended up being real. But a Boat and the Atlantic were also real, but it doesn't mean they were the right choices. Savanna ended up being a death trap, while the hunt for Wellington was a forced death match through the cold mountains.. we all know the end results of both, only a few end up surviving to the end.
Season 2 his rash behavior ended up getting a lot of people killed... Ski Lodge during the Carver stand off, completely Benny's fault, as Carlos said. I blame him for all the deaths at Howe's when we tried to escape as the zombie herd was his idea. I blame him for all the unnecessary tension between members of the group, he always resorted to anger and violence.
In the end, I would of rather sided with Carver than Kenny, any day of the week.
As you feel they are pointless, there are others who feel differently, just like there are people who feel other forms of entertainment, law, art or grammar are pointless but there are always those that feel different about it, it's difficult to determine a person's mood just by posts, I don't doubt some are angry but I don't doubt that some are calmer than they are perceived to be as well, if a thread upsets someone, they have no reason to continue reading through the thread because at that point, it's the person's own choice to stay and own choice to prevent or begin conflict.
I agree, Topics can be unhealthy but it is still different to each individual, I don't agree that the Kenny Apologists Title was right for this Thread but I don't see how naming the title of thread makes someone knowledgeable to how things work around a Forum, in this case, you're probably right considering the OP has been in these Forums for a while but even a newcomer can make the same mistake and cause accidental flame-baiting but I do agree that it feels this thread was meant for some flame-baiting since the title was never changed, I disagree with labeling people as "Apologists", "Haters", "Fanboys" etc. if they do not wished to be labelled as that. If he was angry that people liked Kenny and wanted them to explain why - people have explained why they do and don't like Kenny in this thread, so at least the question has been answered to a degree, as for a sensible discussion - I haven't seen one in quite a while to be honest, it feels like sooner or later, a popular thread will have an argument within it thanks to a couple of people who disagree with one another. In the end, as long as this Thread doesn't get out of hand and result to continuous personal attacks and derailment, it should be fine.
Right gonna speak my peice here and try and leave it at that to prevent things from getting more out of control.
If you really think that… more this thread and the Kenny situation in general hasn't gotten out of control then I don't know what to tell you. I do discuss other topics and enjoy them way more. A lot of people in these topics seem more angry than entertained imo. I think sometimes these kind of topics can suck people in (a bit like a shit but addictive TV programme or a drug). I dunno about video games or other stuff being pointless, but I know for damn sure that these constant Kenny arguements are. I'm clearly not the only one who feels this way either.
Topics can definitely be unhealthy without name calling or abuse.The fact that the OP mentioned Kenny Apologists in his thread suggests that he isn't knew and knows exactly how things work here. Sounded like he was angry that people liked Kenny and wanted them to explain why, then actually wanting a sensible discussion.
For me Kenny has always come off as Selfish. What kindness you get is often self absorbing kindness he does for himself.. in the form of fe… moreel good about himself medicine. . His selfishness even passed over into Season 2. I also personally blame him for most of the Deaths in the game as Kenny always seems to be after a mcguffin which in turn is often the main reason for people getting killed, as he cattle prods the group to keep pushing for that mcguffin. Season 1 it was the Boat, and the Atlantic. Season 2 it was Wellington, both in all respects in the eyes of any logical person were Pipe Dreams... even if Wellington in the end ended up being real. But a Boat and the Atlantic were also real, but it doesn't mean they were the right choices. Savanna ended up being a death trap, while the hunt for Wellington was a forced death match through the cold mountains.. we all know the end results of both, only a few end up surviving to the end.
… [view original content]
I never said I wasn't evil myself. Grins It is likely why I saw the True face of Kenny long before even Season 1 ended.. when he came back in Season 2 I knew it was going to end badly. I know evil. Evil is often the face of selfishness, fear, hatred, and rage. Kenny had it all and it drives a person mad during extreme times. He was becoming a Carver, it was only a matter of time... Carver had a fortress with food/water, I'd rather chose a Carver with something than someone becoming a Carver with nothing.
Kenny giving up? Nahhh not in his nature lol but i see what you mean though. I think the drinking was his way of taking a minute. I just think that because he was the one fixing up the RV and boat that he naturally feels like being in charge because he was the only one doing something about it or the only one that knew how to sort them. If it was Lee that knew how to fix them up and then Kenny was like "im in charge blah blah" i'd then disagree and probably feel the way you do? Trust me im not 100% pro Kenny on things believe it or not lol. If i feel he's in the wrong about things i'll say, in fact i have stated at one time or another all the times I've disagreed with him but that was a long time ago!
If I were in that group I wouldn't really care that much who's in charge as long as everyone pulled together and we got to where we needed to go
Like I said, Clem found the boat. What did he do but sit around drinking and giving up? Then he decided that the boat was his, not "ours" be… morecause he's the boat captain or whatever. Its just like with the RV and the truck. Its just his general attitude of "Im in charge and we do what I say" that bothered me then, and does now thinking back on it. I know you dont agree, you see Kenny from a different place, but thats how I feel.
Ok but like you said she didn't want to save her and only did because Clem wanted to. I think also she said something negative about Sarah on the walk back also but anyway...
Because Jane is the one who provides a boost to Luke, Clementine and determinantly Sarah, remember that Luke's ribs were hurt and he couldn'… moret lift Clementine up, Clementine and Sarah were children and probably wouldn't have been able to provide the strength to boost adults like Luke or Jane up, Jane wasn't injured and was capable of saving their butts. Remember that Jane waits for Clementine to make the final call whilst Walkers are busting through the door and windows and if Clementine convinces Sarah to leave, Jane stays behind and boosts Sarah up as Walkers get closer to her, she literally risked her own life to save Sarah. She might not have wanted to save Sarah but you can't deny she didn't play a large role in saving her.
Am i missing something? How was Jane the reason Sarah determinent survived in the trailer??
You are missing something. Jane is literally the person who stays behind to boost Sarah thought the skylight, risking her own life.
Thank you for your well formed post! Even Kenny knows he's crazy! But so is Jane! Alone V "horde" thats no good alone with AJ @ Wellington with strangers. Still sux. I take the devil I know over what Idon't. For Now but Kenny is nuts! My first playthrough I left with Aj and both Ken and Jane dead so Ifelt both were worthless! great job keep it 100!
What is said doesn't override what is done in my opinion, she only says she wants to leave Sarah behind but even though she thinks Sarah is a liability, she stills risks her life up to twice to try and save her and in the end - Jane was right, she couldn't be saved - because the writers made her non-save-able -_- Like the phrasing goes "Actions speak louder than words", several times Jane has shown how she says one thing and does the exact opposite of what she says if you give her the choice or if you give her a nudge in the right direction.
Ok but like you said she didn't want to save her and only did because Clem wanted to. I think also she said something negative about Sarah on the walk back also but anyway...
I never said I wasn't evil myself. Grins It is likely why I saw the True face of Kenny long before even Season 1 ended.. when he came back… more in Season 2 I knew it was going to end badly. I know evil. Evil is often the face of selfishness, fear, hatred, and rage. Kenny had it all and it drives a person mad during extreme times. He was becoming a Carver, it was only a matter of time... Carver had a fortress with food/water, I'd rather chose a Carver with something than someone becoming a Carver with nothing.
Well thats just it, its your opinion and determinant as we all know but that's not enough for me to think that just because she saved her makes it all ok because it doesn't in my opinion, it was done reluctantly and because in my opinion she sees Clem as a replacement for her sister is the only reason why i think she saved Sarah. She still said those things about leaving her regardless and if Clem wasn't there she would have left her on both occasions and the same goes for the things she said when Clem was trying to save Luke from the lake. So before anyone bites my head off, sorry but that is what i think like it or not. I'm not bashing your opinion prink
What is said doesn't override what is done in my opinion, she only says she wants to leave Sarah behind but even though she thinks Sarah is … morea liability, she stills risks her life up to twice to try and save her and in the end - Jane was right, she couldn't be saved - because the writers made her non-save-able -_- Like the phrasing goes "Actions speak louder than words", several times Jane has shown how she says one thing and does the exact opposite of what she says if you give her the choice or if you give her a nudge in the right direction.
You sure? He has a higher body count by the end of the game, and sure as heck seemed to enjoy bashing Carver and poor Arvo up. He had the same exact temperament. As Jane said, it would only take Kenny to wake up one morning and no longer feel guilty for what he did, for him to take that step to become a new Carver.
i think she was a reverse molly: pretty much molly with reversed morals. Molly talks about how we shouldnt leave ppl because they re sick an… mored jane thinks that babys and people who have diseases are liabilitys and she wanst to leave them for example: Sarah who is hinted at having some sort of anxiety disease in episode 1 by carlos and AJ who jane dint want to see being born due to he being a ´´liability´´
Ya, both Kenny and Jane gave a bad taste in my mouth at the Rest stop. Personally, I'd take the cool headed one vs the implosive hot head. Jane well, lets say she had a lot more she could still teach Clem, she seemed to be quite reliable once she finally became emotionally involved in people and her cold attitude went away a bit. Her actions were cruel at the rest stop, but she proved Kenny was a ticking time bomb.. her Method was cruel, but it did work, and she ended up proving herself right regardless of the end out come. If you kill Kenny, Kenny even agrees with you, that you shot him. He knew it as well, that he was slipping, everyone around him knew it, even Sarita feared it.
Thank you for your well formed post! Even Kenny knows he's crazy! But so is Jane! Alone V "horde" thats no good alone with AJ @ Well… moreington with strangers. Still sux. I take the devil I know over what Idon't. For Now but Kenny is nuts! My first playthrough I left with Aj and both Ken and Jane dead so Ifelt both were worthless! great job keep it 100!
You sure? He has a higher body count by the end of the game, and sure as heck seemed to enjoy bashing Carver and poor Arvo up. He had the … moresame exact temperament. As Jane said, it would only take Kenny to wake up one morning and no longer feel guilty for what he did, for him to take that step to become a new Carver.
I'm not fond of Jane because that dogshit Plan that she did at the end of Episode 5 to prove a point. Like Kenny said, She could have stopped the fight, by saying AJ was fine. She did want a fight.
You sure? He has a higher body count by the end of the game, and sure as heck seemed to enjoy bashing Carver and poor Arvo up. He had the … moresame exact temperament. As Jane said, it would only take Kenny to wake up one morning and no longer feel guilty for what he did, for him to take that step to become a new Carver.
Hence why Jane was right. People can Hate Jane for the measures she took to prove it, but in the end she was almost right about everything it seemed. When she said things that might upset people I think Raven from Teen Titan Go said it best using the word "Nean" being mean but in a way that helps people, because sometimes being nice isn't going to work. Nean is being Mean but for a Nice reason. Jane says something people may not like, it is because they "have" to hear it, even if they don't want to.
A Psychologist likely would say otherwise. Remember when he picked up the box even though Sarita wanted to do it, and they almost had a minor fight over who was going to pick up the box? Kenny and his "feel" noble good medicine at work, trying hard to be good but causing a tiny mini conflict in the process. Kenny trying to save the people at the Ski Lodge through his own sense of heroic behavior only ending up getting people killed. Kenny trying to escape the van, jumping before knowing where the ground is metaphorically speaking. When he is trying to be good and heroic it isn't to help people, it is his own messed up mind thinking he is, but in the end he almost always ends up hurting someone in the process. He is being good for himself, to prove he is still a good person in short, even though it's as plain as day and night he forgot how to be a good person a long time ago.
Edit: he is shelfish, because he is trying to be good for his own selfish reasons, to prove that he is good, that he is the guy people should turn to, that he knows better than everyone else, that he is right, and everyone else is wrong... HE HE HE HE. It's all about himself. AJ is just the new Duck, the child he must protect, again "he" it is about him always even when he tries to pretend it isn't.
You know it's funny, when Clem talks to Sarah in "Amid the Ruins," this is how the conversation can go:
Sarah says, "I could never be that good of a friend..."
It's just funny because you're so angry at Jane for advocating leaving Sarah behind, yet Sarah says she might just have done the same thing that Jane did, if it was her. Now I'm not saying that Jane and Sarah were the same person, because they were not. Sarah was a child and Jane was an adult, and Jane definitely didn't have to be as negative towards Sarah as she originally was. Nevertheless I think it's very interesting that Sarah says this.
A Psychologist likely would say otherwise. Remember when he picked up the box even though Sarita wanted to do it, and they almost had a min… moreor fight over who was going to pick up the box? Kenny and his "feel" noble good medicine at work, trying hard to be good but causing a tiny mini conflict in the process. Kenny trying to save the people at the Ski Lodge through his own sense of heroic behavior only ending up getting people killed. Kenny trying to escape the van, jumping before knowing where the ground is metaphorically speaking. When he is trying to be good and heroic it isn't to help people, it is his own messed up mind thinking he is, but in the end he almost always ends up hurting someone in the process. He is being good for himself, to prove he is still a good person in short, even though it's as plain as day and night he forgot how to be a good person a long time ago.
Edit: he is shelfish, because he is trying to be good for h… [view original content]
Molly: Doesn't like groups, can fight, can freerun, seems okay with justified killing but doesn't agree with leaving children or the helpless (as far as I can tell, her sudden disappearance in S1 needs explanation).
Jane: Doesn't like groups, can fight, doesn't like killing but is willing to leave the young and helpless to die before they become liabilities.
They have their similarities but, I'd take Molly's attitude over Jane's pure survivalist nature. What happens when you get injured or sick, you need someone to watch your back.
Molly: Doesn't like groups, can fight, can freerun, seems okay with justified killing but doesn't agree with leaving children or the helples… mores (as far as I can tell, her sudden disappearance in S1 needs explanation).
Jane: Doesn't like groups, can fight, doesn't like killing but is willing to leave the young and helpless to die before they become liabilities.
They have their similarities but, I'd take Molly's attitude over Jane's pure survivalist nature. What happens when you get injured or sick, you need someone to watch your back.
Do you truly think Kenny would've stopped the fight though, just by saying AJ is alive when she never even said AJ was dead because she was never given a chance to actually explain what happened? I'm not saying it was a good plan, it was pretty stupid, but she ain't the first character who had a stupid plan and just like Kenny, Jane isn't perfect, she makes mistakes too.
I'm not fond of Jane because that dogshit Plan that she did at the end of Episode 5 to prove a point. Like Kenny said, She could have stopped the fight, by saying AJ was fine. She did want a fight.
I know it's my opinion, everything everyone says in these Threads about any character is subjective opinion, that's to be expected in Forums. I don't like the way Jane spoke about how Sarah couldn't be saved but you can't ignore the fact that she ended up being right but despite having her own beliefs which she is free to have, she lets a little girl make the decision that could cost her her own life, heck, she even saves Sarah without Clementine telling her to if you stay silent on the Observation Deck. If Clementine truly was the only reason she saved Sarah, is that such a bad thing and not understandable? She still saved Sarah and tried to save her and she lets Clementine choose - I think she's one of the few characters in Season 2 that will actually do things for Clementine rather than make her do everything herself.
Let's not forget Jane's experience with her sister Jaime who seemed similar to Sarah in regards to not trying/knowing how to survive, for different reasons perhaps but to Jane, she might see might have seen herself and her sister in Clementine and Sarah hence "Don't let her bring you down with her, not again." she may have felt that Clementine's friendship with Sarah could end up getting Clementine hurt because of how protective she can be over Sarah or she may have only liked Clementine and Luke and didn't want to risk her own life to save the people she didn't want to, different possible reasons for the decisions any character made really.
Do you really know that though? I think that if Clementine wasn't there, she would've just left the group like she first planned, cause she didn't really owe the group anything. As for telling Clementine not to save Luke from the Lake, do you think that was more of her wanting Luke to die(someone she became fond of and even began crying about) or do you think she was telling Clementine not to try to save Luke because she might end up falling in the lake and dying with Luke and Bonnie, remember that she still saves Clementine regardless of how she falls into the lake - actions speaking louder than words again. I know you're not bashing my opinion, you haven't used insults on me or tell me my opinion is wrong - which is what I respect about other people on Forums and why I like this Forum better than most
Well thats just it, its your opinion and determinant as we all know but that's not enough for me to think that just because she saved her ma… morekes it all ok because it doesn't in my opinion, it was done reluctantly and because in my opinion she sees Clem as a replacement for her sister is the only reason why i think she saved Sarah. She still said those things about leaving her regardless and if Clem wasn't there she would have left her on both occasions and the same goes for the things she said when Clem was trying to save Luke from the lake. So before anyone bites my head off, sorry but that is what i think like it or not. I'm not bashing your opinion prink
Remind me, what does Kenny need to apologize for exactly?
Saving Lee's life at the drugstore when Larry tries to leave him for dead?
S… moreaving everyone in the meat locker by killing Larry before he could turn?
Fixing the RV which saves the group when the bandits attack?
Continuing to lead the group into finding a boat even after losing his wife and son?
Helping Lee rescue Clementine even if you didn't initially get him to come with you?
Being willing to sacrifice himself to save Christa/Ben?
Taking a beating to protect Clementine?
Helping Rebecca deliver the baby even after his new girlfriend just died?
Being willing to sacrifice himself to keep Clem and AJ safe at Wellington?
Or are you just mad because he hurt your feelings?
Do you truly think Kenny would've stopped the fight though
Kenny himself says that she could've stopped the fight by saying AJ was okay. You're argument is literally "Kenny wouldn't have stopped the fight because I think he wouldn't have stopped the fight".
she never even said AJ was dead
"It was an accident" is confirmation that he's dead.
she was never given a chance to actually explain what happened
She had plenty of time to say what happened. In fact, right after Kenny initially reacts there's a long pause where nobody is doing anything and nobody is saying anything. She could've easily explained what supposedly happened right then and there. In fact, if all she wanted to do was prove a point, as soon as Kenny reacted all she had to do was say that the baby was still alive and that's it, she would've proved her point and nobody would have to die. And in fact, she wouldn't have showed up without the baby in the first place if she didn't want to fight.
Really though, the reason why Jane never reveals that the baby is alive is because it would've ruined the shitty climax that Telltale spent multiple rewrites trying to come up with, and no amount of "logical" reasoning is going to make anything that happens in that scene make sense.
Do you truly think Kenny would've stopped the fight though, just by saying AJ is alive when she never even said AJ was dead because she was … morenever given a chance to actually explain what happened? I'm not saying it was a good plan, it was pretty stupid, but she ain't the first character who had a stupid plan and just like Kenny, Jane isn't perfect, she makes mistakes too.
Saying something is not the same as doing it. I don't believe Kenny would've stopped the fight just by hearing Jane say words when he himself was the one that accused her of killing AJ without any proof and without even letting her explain. Remember, Kenny calls bs whenever he doesn't believe something that turns out to be true, especially in amidst of newcomers to the group but he never has hard time believing someone did something bad, even if it's not from their own mouths.
It is not confirmation that he's dad, saying that could mean more than just unintentionally killing him, it can mean losing him in the blizzard for one.
I'm not saying she was right with her plan, I didn't like it and I don't agree with it. But I'm not going to excuse Kenny's actions during this scenario just because Jane created the situation, there were ways Kenny could've handled the situation as well. All she wanted to do was prove a point - and the point was proven - how far Kenny would go to punish who he thinks harmed whatever he cares about(In this case, a baby which he's known for a few days). No one had to die if Kenny actually asked Jane to explain, thus showing that Kenny isn't what Jane tried to make him look like, an aggressor, but he initiates the fight instead, the amount of time there's left for explanation is taken up with the two fighting, plus do you really think Jane saying AJ is alive would prompt Kenny to stop the fight and believe her instantly after he assumed something else? Remember that Kenny blames Clementine for Sarita regardless of what happens and whether she tries to explain. Jane definitely could've handled the situation better, but Kenny could've to and even proved that he wasn't what Jane showed him to be.
Pretty much, everyone felt out of character to me in Episode 5 - specifically Mike and Bonnie, not that what they didn't isn't believable.
Do you truly think Kenny would've stopped the fight though
Kenny himself says that she could've stopped the fight by saying AJ was o… morekay. You're argument is literally "Kenny wouldn't have stopped the fight because I think he wouldn't have stopped the fight".
she never even said AJ was dead
"It was an accident" is confirmation that he's dead.
she was never given a chance to actually explain what happened
She had plenty of time to say what happened. In fact, right after Kenny initially reacts there's a long pause where nobody is doing anything and nobody is saying anything. She could've easily explained what supposedly happened right then and there. In fact, if all she wanted to do was prove a point, as soon as Kenny reacted all she had to do was say that the baby was still alive and that's it, she would've proved her point and nobody would have to die. And in fact, she wouldn't have showed up without the baby… [view original content]
Not very fair to say that though. Jane never lets Sarah die Well it's always Clem's choice. RV Clem chooses to let Sarah live or not. Gift Shop, was a forgone conclusion regardless what options you choose Sarah dies. I had Sarah literally risking Dying to help save Sarah at the Gift Shop by picking the right options.. but it was hopeless, you'd need Mike and Luke down there with her to help lift the debris that fell on Sarah, Jane just couldn't hold up and while fending off Walkers alone.
Comments
Right gonna speak my peice here and try and leave it at that to prevent things from getting more out of control.
If you really think that this thread and the Kenny situation in general hasn't gotten out of control then I don't know what to tell you. I do discuss other topics and enjoy them way more. A lot of people in these topics seem more angry than entertained imo. I think sometimes these kind of topics can suck people in (a bit like a shit but addictive TV programme or a drug). I dunno about video games or other stuff being pointless, but I know for damn sure that these constant Kenny arguements are. I'm clearly not the only one who feels this way either.
Topics can definitely be unhealthy without name calling or abuse.The fact that the OP mentioned Kenny Apologists in his thread suggests that he isn't knew and knows exactly how things work here. Sounded like he was angry that people liked Kenny and wanted them to explain why, then actually wanting a sensible discussion.
Medicine. Ben was giving them medicine.
Damn you and KCohere stay getting likes. How do you do it?!!
I would like Kenny to apologize for implying that Clem and Lee's relationship is a sham.
This made me hate his guts for the rest of the episode.
That is partially because she dragged around someone who was hell bent on dying. Her sister refused to move when they were being attacked by Walkers. Jane was the one who had been making Jamie get up everyday and not just lay down on the ground and die , along with the added stress of finding food , shelter , and defending them both from zombies. Can't you see how she might feel ambiguous to people who can't protect themselves?
For me Kenny has always come off as Selfish. What kindness you get is often self absorbing kindness he does for himself.. in the form of feel good about himself medicine. . His selfishness even passed over into Season 2. I also personally blame him for most of the Deaths in the game as Kenny always seems to be after a mcguffin which in turn is often the main reason for people getting killed, as he cattle prods the group to keep pushing for that mcguffin. Season 1 it was the Boat, and the Atlantic. Season 2 it was Wellington, both in all respects in the eyes of any logical person were Pipe Dreams... even if Wellington in the end ended up being real. But a Boat and the Atlantic were also real, but it doesn't mean they were the right choices. Savanna ended up being a death trap, while the hunt for Wellington was a forced death match through the cold mountains.. we all know the end results of both, only a few end up surviving to the end.
Season 2 his rash behavior ended up getting a lot of people killed... Ski Lodge during the Carver stand off, completely Benny's fault, as Carlos said. I blame him for all the deaths at Howe's when we tried to escape as the zombie herd was his idea. I blame him for all the unnecessary tension between members of the group, he always resorted to anger and violence.
In the end, I would of rather sided with Carver than Kenny, any day of the week.
As you feel they are pointless, there are others who feel differently, just like there are people who feel other forms of entertainment, law, art or grammar are pointless but there are always those that feel different about it, it's difficult to determine a person's mood just by posts, I don't doubt some are angry but I don't doubt that some are calmer than they are perceived to be as well, if a thread upsets someone, they have no reason to continue reading through the thread because at that point, it's the person's own choice to stay and own choice to prevent or begin conflict.
I agree, Topics can be unhealthy but it is still different to each individual, I don't agree that the Kenny Apologists Title was right for this Thread but I don't see how naming the title of thread makes someone knowledgeable to how things work around a Forum, in this case, you're probably right considering the OP has been in these Forums for a while but even a newcomer can make the same mistake and cause accidental flame-baiting but I do agree that it feels this thread was meant for some flame-baiting since the title was never changed, I disagree with labeling people as "Apologists", "Haters", "Fanboys" etc. if they do not wished to be labelled as that. If he was angry that people liked Kenny and wanted them to explain why - people have explained why they do and don't like Kenny in this thread, so at least the question has been answered to a degree, as for a sensible discussion - I haven't seen one in quite a while to be honest, it feels like sooner or later, a popular thread will have an argument within it thanks to a couple of people who disagree with one another. In the end, as long as this Thread doesn't get out of hand and result to continuous personal attacks and derailment, it should be fine.
I find this to be very disturbing , and I don't even LIKE Kenny.
I never said I wasn't evil myself. Grins It is likely why I saw the True face of Kenny long before even Season 1 ended.. when he came back in Season 2 I knew it was going to end badly. I know evil. Evil is often the face of selfishness, fear, hatred, and rage. Kenny had it all and it drives a person mad during extreme times. He was becoming a Carver, it was only a matter of time... Carver had a fortress with food/water, I'd rather chose a Carver with something than someone becoming a Carver with nothing.
Kenny giving up? Nahhh not in his nature lol but i see what you mean though. I think the drinking was his way of taking a minute. I just think that because he was the one fixing up the RV and boat that he naturally feels like being in charge because he was the only one doing something about it or the only one that knew how to sort them. If it was Lee that knew how to fix them up and then Kenny was like "im in charge blah blah" i'd then disagree and probably feel the way you do? Trust me im not 100% pro Kenny on things believe it or not lol. If i feel he's in the wrong about things i'll say, in fact i have stated at one time or another all the times I've disagreed with him but that was a long time ago!
If I were in that group I wouldn't really care that much who's in charge as long as everyone pulled together and we got to where we needed to go
Ok but like you said she didn't want to save her and only did because Clem wanted to. I think also she said something negative about Sarah on the walk back also but anyway...
BetterToSleep
Yes despite not really wanting to save her and only did because Clem determinant wanted to do
Thank you for your well formed post! Even Kenny knows he's crazy! But so is Jane! Alone V "horde" thats no good alone with AJ @ Wellington with strangers. Still sux. I take the devil I know over what Idon't. For Now but Kenny is nuts! My first playthrough I left with Aj and both Ken and Jane dead so Ifelt both were worthless! great job keep it 100!
What is said doesn't override what is done in my opinion, she only says she wants to leave Sarah behind but even though she thinks Sarah is a liability, she stills risks her life up to twice to try and save her and in the end - Jane was right, she couldn't be saved - because the writers made her non-save-able -_- Like the phrasing goes "Actions speak louder than words", several times Jane has shown how she says one thing and does the exact opposite of what she says if you give her the choice or if you give her a nudge in the right direction.
Except Kenny clearly didn't end up turning into Carver lol.
Well thats just it, its your opinion and determinant as we all know but that's not enough for me to think that just because she saved her makes it all ok because it doesn't in my opinion, it was done reluctantly and because in my opinion she sees Clem as a replacement for her sister is the only reason why i think she saved Sarah. She still said those things about leaving her regardless and if Clem wasn't there she would have left her on both occasions and the same goes for the things she said when Clem was trying to save Luke from the lake. So before anyone bites my head off, sorry but that is what i think like it or not. I'm not bashing your opinion prink
You sure? He has a higher body count by the end of the game, and sure as heck seemed to enjoy bashing Carver and poor Arvo up. He had the same exact temperament. As Jane said, it would only take Kenny to wake up one morning and no longer feel guilty for what he did, for him to take that step to become a new Carver.
Unpopular opinion: I liked Jane a lot more than Molly
Ya, both Kenny and Jane gave a bad taste in my mouth at the Rest stop. Personally, I'd take the cool headed one vs the implosive hot head. Jane well, lets say she had a lot more she could still teach Clem, she seemed to be quite reliable once she finally became emotionally involved in people and her cold attitude went away a bit. Her actions were cruel at the rest stop, but she proved Kenny was a ticking time bomb.. her Method was cruel, but it did work, and she ended up proving herself right regardless of the end out come. If you kill Kenny, Kenny even agrees with you, that you shot him. He knew it as well, that he was slipping, everyone around him knew it, even Sarita feared it.
Kenny felt absolutely no remorse for killing Jane so...there you go....
;P
Lol not really. Just presenting my opinion as best as I can.
Im with you there. I did not care for Molly's attitude.
I'm not fond of Jane because that dogshit Plan that she did at the end of Episode 5 to prove a point. Like Kenny said, She could have stopped the fight, by saying AJ was fine. She did want a fight.
Kenny? Selfish? Those words can't go into the same sentence.
Hence why Jane was right. People can Hate Jane for the measures she took to prove it, but in the end she was almost right about everything it seemed. When she said things that might upset people I think Raven from Teen Titan Go said it best using the word "Nean" being mean but in a way that helps people, because sometimes being nice isn't going to work. Nean is being Mean but for a Nice reason. Jane says something people may not like, it is because they "have" to hear it, even if they don't want to.
Then I shall wait for the next read.
A Psychologist likely would say otherwise. Remember when he picked up the box even though Sarita wanted to do it, and they almost had a minor fight over who was going to pick up the box? Kenny and his "feel" noble good medicine at work, trying hard to be good but causing a tiny mini conflict in the process. Kenny trying to save the people at the Ski Lodge through his own sense of heroic behavior only ending up getting people killed. Kenny trying to escape the van, jumping before knowing where the ground is metaphorically speaking. When he is trying to be good and heroic it isn't to help people, it is his own messed up mind thinking he is, but in the end he almost always ends up hurting someone in the process. He is being good for himself, to prove he is still a good person in short, even though it's as plain as day and night he forgot how to be a good person a long time ago.
Edit: he is shelfish, because he is trying to be good for his own selfish reasons, to prove that he is good, that he is the guy people should turn to, that he knows better than everyone else, that he is right, and everyone else is wrong... HE HE HE HE. It's all about himself. AJ is just the new Duck, the child he must protect, again "he" it is about him always even when he tries to pretend it isn't.
You know it's funny, when Clem talks to Sarah in "Amid the Ruins," this is how the conversation can go:
Sarah says, "I could never be that good of a friend..."
It's just funny because you're so angry at Jane for advocating leaving Sarah behind, yet Sarah says she might just have done the same thing that Jane did, if it was her. Now I'm not saying that Jane and Sarah were the same person, because they were not. Sarah was a child and Jane was an adult, and Jane definitely didn't have to be as negative towards Sarah as she originally was. Nevertheless I think it's very interesting that Sarah says this.
Honestly , I would rather choose a hot tempered guy then a psychotic maybe - molester.
Molly: Doesn't like groups, can fight, can freerun, seems okay with justified killing but doesn't agree with leaving children or the helpless (as far as I can tell, her sudden disappearance in S1 needs explanation).
Jane: Doesn't like groups, can fight, doesn't like killing but is willing to leave the young and helpless to die before they become liabilities.
They have their similarities but, I'd take Molly's attitude over Jane's pure survivalist nature. What happens when you get injured or sick, you need someone to watch your back.
Thats fine, youre entitled to disagree. Besides, Jane saved Clementines life. She is not nearly as selfish as people try to make her out to be.
Do you truly think Kenny would've stopped the fight though, just by saying AJ is alive when she never even said AJ was dead because she was never given a chance to actually explain what happened? I'm not saying it was a good plan, it was pretty stupid, but she ain't the first character who had a stupid plan and just like Kenny, Jane isn't perfect, she makes mistakes too.
I know it's my opinion, everything everyone says in these Threads about any character is subjective opinion, that's to be expected in Forums. I don't like the way Jane spoke about how Sarah couldn't be saved but you can't ignore the fact that she ended up being right but despite having her own beliefs which she is free to have, she lets a little girl make the decision that could cost her her own life, heck, she even saves Sarah without Clementine telling her to if you stay silent on the Observation Deck. If Clementine truly was the only reason she saved Sarah, is that such a bad thing and not understandable? She still saved Sarah and tried to save her and she lets Clementine choose - I think she's one of the few characters in Season 2 that will actually do things for Clementine rather than make her do everything herself.
Let's not forget Jane's experience with her sister Jaime who seemed similar to Sarah in regards to not trying/knowing how to survive, for different reasons perhaps but to Jane, she might see might have seen herself and her sister in Clementine and Sarah hence "Don't let her bring you down with her, not again." she may have felt that Clementine's friendship with Sarah could end up getting Clementine hurt because of how protective she can be over Sarah or she may have only liked Clementine and Luke and didn't want to risk her own life to save the people she didn't want to, different possible reasons for the decisions any character made really.
Do you really know that though? I think that if Clementine wasn't there, she would've just left the group like she first planned, cause she didn't really owe the group anything. As for telling Clementine not to save Luke from the Lake, do you think that was more of her wanting Luke to die(someone she became fond of and even began crying about) or do you think she was telling Clementine not to try to save Luke because she might end up falling in the lake and dying with Luke and Bonnie, remember that she still saves Clementine regardless of how she falls into the lake - actions speaking louder than words again. I know you're not bashing my opinion, you haven't used insults on me or tell me my opinion is wrong - which is what I respect about other people on Forums and why I like this Forum better than most
I myself don't like Kenny, but he is the guy that creates the plots for both seasons he is very important for telltale
Man I hope Kenny survives season 3. THE LEGEND WILL NEVER DIE
Made my day! That is so Kenny! lol
Yes he did.... which shows you didn't believe what the writers made plain as day.
Kenny himself says that she could've stopped the fight by saying AJ was okay. You're argument is literally "Kenny wouldn't have stopped the fight because I think he wouldn't have stopped the fight".
"It was an accident" is confirmation that he's dead.
She had plenty of time to say what happened. In fact, right after Kenny initially reacts there's a long pause where nobody is doing anything and nobody is saying anything. She could've easily explained what supposedly happened right then and there. In fact, if all she wanted to do was prove a point, as soon as Kenny reacted all she had to do was say that the baby was still alive and that's it, she would've proved her point and nobody would have to die. And in fact, she wouldn't have showed up without the baby in the first place if she didn't want to fight.
Really though, the reason why Jane never reveals that the baby is alive is because it would've ruined the shitty climax that Telltale spent multiple rewrites trying to come up with, and no amount of "logical" reasoning is going to make anything that happens in that scene make sense.
Saying something is not the same as doing it. I don't believe Kenny would've stopped the fight just by hearing Jane say words when he himself was the one that accused her of killing AJ without any proof and without even letting her explain. Remember, Kenny calls bs whenever he doesn't believe something that turns out to be true, especially in amidst of newcomers to the group but he never has hard time believing someone did something bad, even if it's not from their own mouths.
It is not confirmation that he's dad, saying that could mean more than just unintentionally killing him, it can mean losing him in the blizzard for one.
I'm not saying she was right with her plan, I didn't like it and I don't agree with it. But I'm not going to excuse Kenny's actions during this scenario just because Jane created the situation, there were ways Kenny could've handled the situation as well. All she wanted to do was prove a point - and the point was proven - how far Kenny would go to punish who he thinks harmed whatever he cares about(In this case, a baby which he's known for a few days). No one had to die if Kenny actually asked Jane to explain, thus showing that Kenny isn't what Jane tried to make him look like, an aggressor, but he initiates the fight instead, the amount of time there's left for explanation is taken up with the two fighting, plus do you really think Jane saying AJ is alive would prompt Kenny to stop the fight and believe her instantly after he assumed something else? Remember that Kenny blames Clementine for Sarita regardless of what happens and whether she tries to explain. Jane definitely could've handled the situation better, but Kenny could've to and even proved that he wasn't what Jane showed him to be.
Pretty much, everyone felt out of character to me in Episode 5 - specifically Mike and Bonnie, not that what they didn't isn't believable.
Not very fair to say that though. Jane never lets Sarah die Well it's always Clem's choice. RV Clem chooses to let Sarah live or not. Gift Shop, was a forgone conclusion regardless what options you choose Sarah dies. I had Sarah literally risking Dying to help save Sarah at the Gift Shop by picking the right options.. but it was hopeless, you'd need Mike and Luke down there with her to help lift the debris that fell on Sarah, Jane just couldn't hold up and while fending off Walkers alone.