Well, I think Kenny wasn't fond of the guy who caused Duck and Katjaa's deaths.
You didn't answer my question.
Well that sente… morence was quite contradictory. If he cares for someone other than himself then he is not selfish. And even so, I can't exactly see why it makes Kenny an evil man if he favours his family, cos everyone is like that, from Lee to Lilly to Alvin etc. It's kinda normal for a human to look after their family more, especially during a ZA.
It's not. You look after your family because you acre about their well-being. Their well-being is you well-being therefore protecting your family is a way to protect yourself. Kenny's disregard for anyone else's opinion and safety makes him a selfish person.
Yes, Lilly, Alvin, Clem, everyone cares about their family as well, but they don't compromise other people's wellbeing and safety just to help themselves and their family.
Sarita was Kenny's moral compass, and … [view original content]
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot I couldn't mention Kenny or even talk a bit negatively about him in my comment about Mike and Bonnie without having two guys making a tantrum.
Oh, that's bullshit. He was pretty calm when shooting, Dan. Actually, it was quite disturbing. He was treating the whole situation as a game. He only got slightly worked up when Sarita was the one on the fence.
Being calm doesn't mean he wasn't angry about it. The point is, he was trying to help (which he even says in the following episode to Carlos) but his actions had consequences, I don't deny that. He only shoots Alvin if Clem tells him to right? Or if she doesn't intervene when she's inside. I think that it's not a case of that he doesn't care about anyone else as you stated, i just think that it has to get to a point when someone he cares "more" about to be in a dangerous position for him to finally realise he needs to stop because he can be irrational at times.
Are you going to argue that Kenny didn't believe that Alvin's life would be in danger if he shot?
Well he believed he had a clear shot on Carver but his aim obviously wasn't great the second time around. Again, knowing Kenny, he didn't think about it. I don't deny that it was reckless.
then why did he stopped only when his girlfriend was there?
Because he then finally realised at that point that what he was doing was going too far. If Rebecca was held at gunpoint instead, i still think he's give up. He'd think of the fact shes pregnant as a reason. I know you'll disagree with that but i do think after the determinant second killing, he finally used his head to realise what he was doing needed to stop.
Also, shooting in the first place would obviously put everyone in immediate danger, Kenny isn't that dumb to not be aware of that.
He showed disreagard for everyone safety in this scene, specially if Clem tells him not to shoot.
Well what would you have done then? Hidden or ran away like Luke did? Let your friends be captured? I still think how Luke made it all the way back to Howe's was unrealistic as well. Kenny took a more direct approach trying to help which failed. That's all there is to it. It wasn't smart, but the least Luke could have done is been there to help as well in some way.
Hello? Replacement Duck? I mean, Clementine and AJ!
Perhaps he cared about Rebecca as well, maybe out of guilt that he almost killed/killed her husband. Still he barely gave a shit about the others.
Disagree. He could have asked Clem to leave with just him even before AJ was born but he didn't. After Rebecca dies (therefore no longer having any ties between mother and son) he could have took her and AJ away but he didn't. He still stayed with the group so why?? Because deep down he's not the monster some people think he is. He just goes about how he is to them in a rude, aggressive way but only out of frustration of the situation, not because he doesn't give a shit. As i've said, some people can't control their emotions hence why the others each respond differently.
Nu uh, Dan. Word it better. Getting a truck working for going North.
Nu uh whatever your name is:
"i get them a working truck, and they act like i just shit in their cereal",
Word it better??? He got the truck working FOR everyone whom he thought would be grateful and come with him. It may have been specially ready for it to go North but he still got it working "for the group" before they even discussed where they were planning to go
Kenny made it pretty clear that whoever didn't want to go north with him would stay behind.
A horrible comment he made to them which he later (as you even pointed out) rectified and asked Clem to convince them of going up north. He wouldn't do that if he didn't have an ounce of guilt or humanity for people.
but I have no doubt that he'd leave without them if she couldn't.
Hmmm I don't know. If Clem chose to stay, i just can't see Kenny leaving her. Then of course there is AJ to consider. He would most likely end up accepting everyone else's plan as he always eventually sees reason or when someone like Clem or Lee convinces him or calms him down.
Perhaps I should've worded it better. He cared, but he did nothing about it and prelonged his son's suffering because he was too damn stuborn to listen to anyone else.
Yes and whilst i realise the he was putting people in danger, he did stop the train in the end thanks to being convinced or sense being knocked into him which is what he needs a lot of the time. I don't deny that. But again, if a loved one is dying, you can't always handle it and you make rash decisions and because he was in denial it came across as stubborn. He wasn't thinking straight.
He listened to his own feelings and disregarded his family's wellbeing.
But not intentionally. Anyway i see what you're saying though.
That's not true. When Jane ask everyone (because she actually considers everyone's opinions) Bonnie says: I vote we should go back too' B = Yes. >Mike?' J
'Sure, whatever.' M = Yes
Ok I obviously missed that in my playthrough as this never popped up. Mike did want to go to Texas though and Bonnie was silent in my game. But if i missed it then fine.
Then Kenny starts screaming.
If I felt ganged up on like Kenny probably did, i'd feel the same way. Kind of like on these forums right?
Oh, yes, finding the unknown on a vast, cold land is wayyy better than going to a place where they were sure there would be food and formula. Even if there were walkers there, they could camp nearby and send 2 or 3 people covered in guts to get the supplies.
i never said it was fucking better Mr Sarcastic! Jeez! I said Howe's was just as dangerous as going to Wellington because if the walkers had still been there they'd have problems. You didn't consider AJ would most likely cause noise regardless if they camped nearby and sent a few people in covered in guts. Sound carries. Not just that, how can anyone really be sure food and formula would still be there? What if in the mayhem, Howe's accidentally or intentionally was burned to the ground? They weren't all to know the state of Howe's condition. So going back was a risk either way whether you like that or not. You see i look deep into things on what the situation could be.
And for the record (ooh don't be shocked by this) but even I preferred the Howe's plan to the Wellington plan. I am not a 100% Kenny on everything so please understand that. You only have to ask what things I didn't agree with him on.
And I hope you acknowledge that you and Daze are the reason I'm being negative here (or even directly talking about Kenny in the first place!). You guys challange my opinion on a guy I have a negative view on, I'm obviously going to be negative.
Fair enough. I'm sorry you got angry anyway. I'm just glad your not like Everyone'sClemInTime. At least you don't go round calling Kenny a piece of shit and wishing death on him or talking extremes about any character. Anyway sorry.
I disagree. First of all, shooting Johnny, led to Walter's death, one would argue that he carried on shooting out of anger.
Oh, that… more's bullshit. He was pretty calm when shooting, Dan. Actually, it was quite disturbing. He was treating the whole situation as a game. He only got slightly worked up when Sarita was the one on the fence.
A lot of it is to do with the issue of not thinking, not because of being selfish or that he doesn't care.
Hummm, I dont know. Carver had Alvin at gunpoint. Are you going to argue that Kenny didn't believe that Alvin's life would be in danger if he shot? And if he really wasn't thinking to the point where we knew they could die, then why did he stopped only when his girlfriend was there?
Also, shooting in the first place would obviously put everyone in immediate danger, Kenny isn't that dumb to not be aware of that.
He showed disreagard for everyone safety in this scene, specially if Clem … [view original content]
Is that so? I was talking with Chilled about Mike and Bonnie's reasons for leaving. You two popped out of nowhere and started whining because I made a sarcastic joke on Kenny and turned this into another discussion about him. Then you tow moan that people are over negative. If you guys started to lay off and stopped starting arguments for the slightest insult on him maybe you got what you wanted. So damn sensitive, geez.
Neither do I, Dan! I was talking about Mike and Bonnie!! Of course Kenny's character would come up to the matter since their main reason for leaving was him.
Sorry i wasn't actually specifically meaning you, I meant a lot of people as a whole.
Well, I'm negative on characters I have a negative view on. I have the right to be. Sorry if I (and the rest of the forum) don't follow the same comment policy as you.
And i'm not saying you don't have the right because you do but obviously I'm going to disagree with it if it's negative. Sorry, i also have that right. Especially if i sometimes think it's a positive.
Calm down? I wasn't the one that, out of nowhere, started calling people 'negative nellies' just because they're bashing a fictional character. You have to learn how to cope with opinions that diverge from yours.
Crazy shit just comes out of my mouth sometimes. Sorry.
Btw i read your "calm down?" line in Andy St John's voice then lol.
Humm... I don't know... Interesting discussion maybe? That is the point of these forums in the first place
It's just a shame that one character divides opinion so much and is basically the most discussed character here.
It shouldn't make you miserable, Dan! It's a fictional character! I don't jump on everyone who makes a slightly negative comment on my favourite characters!
But you have butted in many times and tried correcting my opinion about one of "my" favourites. I don't even know who your favourite is to be honest but whoever it is, is obviously not talked about as much as Kenny. Perhaps not as much as me i admit but when you disagree you naturally take action as anyone would over something they feel strongly about such as the Kenny/Jane fight but we won't go there. Whoever your favourite is i'm sure you'd defend him/her if you felt strongly enough about it
You on the other hand seem to be anywhere where Kenny is slightly shit-talked. You need to lay off and calm down. It's just a character.
Yes sometimes i do and i'm sorry. Can't help it if some people push my buttons in what they say though.
Sorry, Dan, but that usually happens because either a Kensplainer incited an argument
Again it is not always a Kenny fan that causes an argument. It happens with both sets of fans.
And yes, maybe I'm generalizing, but I don't see Janiacs jumping on people because they insulted Jane in a direct or indirect way very often.
And that's because the forums these days have more Jane fans/or people with hate for Kenny which is why it's hard to go on any thread and seeing a character I like get hate. Heck sometimes i go on a completely irrelevant thread that has nothing to do with Kenny and he STILL gets brought up and arguments occur. Flog and Siarlark are die hard jane fans and i have seen one of the many few Kenny fans criticise Jane and one of those 2 jumps on him/her and retaliates by saying something extremely negative about Kenny even when what the kenny fan said wasn't even about Kenny being involved in the scene! So it does work both ways. You don't see it as much because of how riddled these forums are with Jane fans these days compared to the past. All the original Kenny fans i remember haven't been online for over 2 years.
Anyways, I get the message. I can't say anything negative regarding Kenny, or even mention his fucking name without having 2 or 3 Kenny fanboys replying about how I'm a 'negative nellie' that wants to spread the Kenny hate, even when he's not the main focus of my comment. I'm getting sick of this shit.
what i don't do is sit here day in day out and constantly criticise him for his actions.
Neither do I, Dan! I was talking about Mike… more and Bonnie!! Of course Kenny's character would come up to the matter since their main reason for leaving was him.
The only time i am negative is in response to a negative comment.
Well, I'm negative on characters I have a negative view on. I have the right to be. Sorry if I (and the rest of the forum) don't follow the same comment policy as you.
Calm down.
Calm down? I wasn't the one that, out of nowhere, started calling people 'negative nellies' just because they're bashing a fictional character. You have to learn how to cope with opinions that diverge from yours.
But how is it any good for me to jump on the bandwagon of haters and constantly moan about all the shit he's done? What will it achieve?
Humm... I don't know... Interesting discussion maybe? That is th… [view original content]
Chilled said "he helps her like he always does" and because you didn't like what he said, you made the comment that you did. Again it's asking for an argument if you say something you know will upset others that are fans of Kenny. Sensitive perhaps, but so sorry that we feel so strongly about the horrible sarcasm about him.
Is that so? I was talking with Chilled about Mike and Bonnie's reasons for leaving. You two popped out of nowhere and started whining becau… morese I made a sarcastic joke on Kenny and turned this into another discussion about him. Then you tow moan that people are over negative. If you guys started to lay off and stopped starting arguments for the slightest insult on him maybe you got what you wanted. So damn sensitive, geez.
I'm not asking for an argument. Not from you two again, anyways.
It's fiction! Not real! Why does it upset you guys so much? It's not my intent to get you triggered, but damn, even the slightest comment on him will make you two blow up.
I won't restrain my freedom of speech and freedom of opinion on his character just because you two can handle it. Sorry, but I won't.
Chilled called Jane a murderous psychpath and did you see me blowing the fuck up and write an essay on her character? Try to laugh it off, dude and if you can't just ignore it.
Chilled said "he helps her like he always does" and because you didn't like what he said, you made the comment that you did. Again it's aski… moreng for an argument if you say something you know will upset others that are fans of Kenny. Sensitive perhaps, but so sorry that we feel so strongly about the horrible sarcasm about him.
I just realized I didn't expand on my thoughts here despite how often I visit. I'll try to edit it all in.
Favorite
Sarah: Sarah was an endearingly quirky character and the Cabin group member I felt for the most. Her character arc had a lot of potential for not only her, but Clementine, and to a lesser extent, Jane as well.
Lee: Lee Everett is a character I sometimes gloss over because of vanilla protagonist syndrome but one thing Season 1 has over Season 2 is that it made sure the story was just as much about Lee as it was any other character. He was a really respectable person and one of the greats. Plus, Scumbag Lee is such a joy that Im seriously considering doing a 3rd and 4th play through just to do my own. Can't really say the same for "Edgy" Clementine.
Michelle felt like she could have been Season 2s Jolene- unapologeticly thuggish and yet not without a few sympathetic traits and a story to tell. One of the things I like about her over a lot of other characters is that she's [one of, if not] the first black antagonists we've had in the games(never watched the show). When I drew that picture in posted in the Fan Art thread, Michelle was actually the one I was the most conflicted about since I knew going in that it would be tricky to get her street facade down pat. She's one of the characters I previously stated that I would've like to have seen more of, Omid's accident notwithstanding, in a Season some consider to be full of wasted characters. I can perfectly understand some not liking her, what with her being a bully AND a thief. But, then again, so are plenty of other characters whether good or bad(namely Clementine(oh the irony), Kenny, Becca, Carver, Troy, Jane, and Buricko). -You gotta be mean to keep goin' out here.- And she wasn't wrong, now was she?
Danny the Prisoner: Danny the Prisoner was the 400 days character that I liked the most. While the rape allegation did make me a little catious at first, his amicably noble personality in spite of it all made him incredibly likeable. Then again, Justin wasn't making it any harder.
Brenda: Brenda is probably the villain I like the most. From her natural friendliness, her welcoming voice, and her country values, she is the one main villain I recall enjoying through out her entire screen time.
Larry: Larry is an asshole, a bully, and a hardass. However, I'd be lying if I said he didn't crack me up from time to time and his apparent protectiveness and love for Lily made it clear that there really was charm coming out of his ass. He was the first group member to come to mind.
Luke: Luke was a rare hero amongst a plethora of survivors, bandits, and villains. His struggle to do right by everyone, sometimes at his own cost, made him a very respectable character and very relatable to My!Clementine.
Jolene: Jolene is arguably the most memorable characters in Season 1: a two scene wonder. She was amusing, intimidating, tragic, and she helped set the tone for the series in general.
Hate
Jane: Jane is one of the very few characters I can say I truly hate. I even did started a discussion that uses her as the example. Major reasons include: Trying to convince Clementine to abandon most of her friends and group members, Having the blood of at least three characters who would be innocent by her own standards on her hands, Constantly ducking and dodging taking responsibility and facing the consequences, Dragging down and condemning two of my favorite characters, Trying to convince Clementine to abandon most of her friends and group members, Insisting that Sarah would get herself killed because "she's just like my beloved sister Jaime(may she rest in peace)", yet ended up being the one ultimately responsible for setting up the 2nd death and having the nerve to duck around any real responsibility or consequences for it by slipping away and feigning remorse (Though, to be honest/fair, that seemed like it could've been partially genuine and you can just blame that on * shudders * bad writing.), Jumping and threatening Arvo, which causes him to come back with his group looking for payback and causes the events of Never Going Back, where everything completely goes to shit, Almost getting herself killed by the breaken asshole she intentionally provoked(if you shot Kenny, which I did on my first playthrough), Ultimately corrupting at least two characters who were still good enough to be considered heroes(YMMV), and Endangering the life of a minor just to prove a point (Three even!).
Justin: Justin, the entitled jerk who remorselessly admitted to lying in court, is definitely the top contender for most unlikable character in 400 Days. The guy practically put on a t-shirt saying "Buy my Mother: Professional Backstabber at your service" with his dialogue. He wasn't making the choice of Vince's scenario any harder, not helped by when he brings Danny's charges up when you point the gun in his direction. Which felt like one of those cheap "but at least I didn't get arrested/charged for doing X" things, to be honest; though, Danny did look kinda creepy and seemed to like teasing people, at least he seemed legitimately noble and clearly cared about his fellow man. So, while I wouldn't completely trust either of them with a gun despite being fellow convicts, that especially applies him!
That's not the sarcastic joke I was even talking about. I was refering to:
'Oh, Lee. Just because you didn't kill Ben, I'm not going to help you look out for that little girl ; ) Later, bitchh.' Shows how much '''''Jane''''' cares for Clementine.
That's not a "sarcastic joke", that's just a comment fueled with anger.
Actually, that was me sarcatically responding to Chilled's sarcastic comment. Fighting fire with fire as you said. If you go waaay back, you'll see that I was at first trying to explain why Mike and Bonnie left since Chilled seemed to be unaware of it.
You weren't talking with Chilled, you just popped out of nowhere yourself to take the opportunity to say something negative about Kenny, admit it, this is kind of an issue.
Admit what? Who do you think you are to dictate and asume what my intentions with my comments are? Tyi, I was trying to defend Mike and Bonnie's action, not bash Kenny's character.
Plus saying we 'whined' is over exaggerating, once again, to make yourself seem in the right.
Actually, I said that with a mocking intention. I don't see how using the word whine isntead of complain would make my point any more credible.
I/We are not negative people. I/We never post a random gif of Jane getting stabbed or a paragraph about how much of a psychopath Jane is. That's what Jane fans, including you, do for Kenny
That's just not true.
First, I don't use gifs of Kenny death and I also don't mock his death. I've mentioned this before, but I would've rather have an option to shoot Kenny in the arm than outright killing him.
Second, I talk about Kenny character when needed. If he is related to the matter at hand, I'll obviously have to talk about him. When Kensplainer randomly challange my opinion and send me essays about how right he is (like now you see?), of course I'll respond. And in threads about characters I dislike, I'll obviously talk about Kenny's character since I dislike him.
If you don't know me, don't talk and make assumptions about me.
This time, like nearly all the time, it's you who wrote the first negative comment out of nowhere.
What the fuck? Is that so? I challange you to remind me of times where I approached a Kenny fan and told something like 'Kenny sucks, lolololololol, fit meh.' in a thread that wasn't directly related to Kenny or the fight.
If I recall correctly, last time I had a fight about Kenny was in Dan's thread where you approached me with random questions about Jane motivations in the fight that had nothing to do with the matter at hand. Hypocrite.
It's two not tow
Not cool dude. Not fucking cool.
So you're saying you and other people will stop all this negativity if people stop mentioning it? I highly doubt that.
No, I'm saying that if you stopped jumping on people who make the slightest negative comment on Kenny maybe this endless arguments that contain negativity towards him would cease to exist.
Ignores the whole comment, copies random phrase, tries to enforce the idea the other person is misunderstanding things, says that's not even going to bother trying to explain. Pathetic. Just plain pathetic.
IronWoodLover honestly man, your not that bad at all really compared to some people around here. I'm sorry for offending you I really am. I guess I can't always help it. Just some things are said that hit a nerve. I suppose sometimes I think back to the abuse I received from people on YouTube but your not like that
I'm not asking for an argument. Not from you two again, anyways.
It's fiction! Not real! Why does it upset you guys so much? It's not my … moreintent to get you triggered, but damn, even the slightest comment on him will make you two blow up.
I won't restrain my freedom of speech and freedom of opinion on his character just because you two can handle it. Sorry, but I won't.
Chilled called Jane a murderous psychpath and did you see me blowing the fuck up and write an essay on her character? Try to laugh it off, dude and if you can't just ignore it.
Thank you. You're the most reasonable Kenny fan I've came across if I'm being honest. And I have to acknowledge that sometimes I'm excessively smug/sarcastic/mocking in the way I talk about Kenny. Sorry if that pisses you off, that's not the intention.
IronWoodLover honestly man, your not that bad at all really compared to some people around here. I'm sorry for offending you I really am. I … moreguess I can't always help it. Just some things are said that hit a nerve. I suppose sometimes I think back to the abuse I received from people on YouTube but your not like that
I know man, i get carried away A LOT and i know Everyone'sClemInTime is not talking to me right now after the argument i had last night with him. I'll try to not cause any arguments in future but to be honest, i never intend to. It just turns into one with each reply i guess
Thank you. You're the most reasonable Kenny fan I've came across if I'm being honest. And I have to acknowledge that sometimes I'm excessive… morely smug/sarcastic/mocking in the way I talk about Kenny. Sorry if that pisses you off, that's not the intention.
Shel is a character I tend to forget but her scenario and need to make sure here sister grows up right in a world like that, despite Becca's harsh demeanor, made her the most sympathetic of the 400 days protagonists-
Dislike
Carlos: Carlos was an obvious unintentionally unsympathetic example given his lack of worthwhile redeeming qualities outside of his protectiveness of Sarah and later Clementine. However, I've since grown accustomed to his faults and made my peace with him (mentally of course, since he's kinda parking lot food). He served his purpose fairly well, which is more than some can say for a few other characters.
Arvo: I made a point about how while I didn't like Arvo, I thought it was easy to feel sorry for him since he was at a constant disadvantage. The guy shows up looking like an easy target, gets held up thanks to a (badass) little girl, has his own friends laugh at and push him around, loses his sister in a confrontation he clearly didn't want to be a part of from the getgo, gets abused by Kenny, has all of Carver's former workers take pity on him, and gets treated like this terrible villain in a series of unfortunate events that built up to his one true malicious act when he seemed to just be thrown into situations where he barely had a choice. I even outright called him a plot device after a certain point. I find Arvo to be too harmless, dumb, ineffectual, easy-targetish, and weakwilled for me to actively hate. I don't really like him but not hate either: almost-not-quite negatively neutral. Plus, he's nowhere near the menace to society he's supposed to be, especially compared to Jane.
Carver:(Just not enough care to hate) Carver was a Big Bad that should've played a more active role, but ended up being a corny predictable villain, especially in Episode 3. Literally the moment I first saw him, I immediately got "Social Darwinist," which fits well into this genre but there wasn't much else outside of that. The idea that some actually preferred and sided with him over the Cabin Group is a bit odd. Admittedly, the problem with Carver from day 1 was that, even knowing that the villain's name was Carver before I played the game, it was pretty obvious he was bad news just by looking at him, with his scruffy middle-aged dirty forest ranger look. The fact that he tried to suggest that Clementine shouldn't trust the Cabin Group, however valid it may have been at the time(though admittedly, this was only moments after I decided that I genuinely liked Sarah), felt a little too convenient at the time, so I decided to judge how trustworthy they were for myself while keeping in mind that either of them could betray Clementine at any moment. And while I admit that I was a bit surprised none of the Cabin Group tried to do so, my impressions were confirmed when Carver was hauling the group to his domain with his (predictable) true colors revealed. While he seemed to have legitimate points about a number of things, I'm not really inclined to believe a guy who immediately killed someone (scholarly nice guy Walter, who just had his heart broken and his trust betrayed twice, for the record) the first chance he got and smugly brought up that Alvin(the only one I completely liked from the start) killed this 'George' person while taking him hostage and pointing a gun to his head, without us ever learning the context behind it outside of George being Carver's friend.
Becca?:
Brie?: Brie is an example that's mostly my fault: I panicked when I met Vernon for the first time and said I had medicine when I didn't. So, later that night, when everyone who gathered in Crawford and were assigning their roles, Brie refused to speak to me about much. I was kinda meh on her beforehand, but this upturned nose behavior made me dislike her enough that her unusually brutal death didn't really bother me. However, I do feel bad that Vernon lost her in the process.
I won't restrain my freedom of speech and freedom of opinion just because you can't handle it.
Who do you think you are to dictate and asume what my intentions with my comments are?
So witty of you. Copying stuff I said that have no relation with what you're saying. I wanted to take you seriously.
I just wanted to make sure that people could see what you had just done there. Ran out of arguments and tried to imply that I'm being irrational and don't know what I'm talking about. Please, if I'm not reading the situation right, prove me wrong and explain what you meant by that. If you don't want to... well, I guess you don't need to. No-one's making you. We can just move on with our lives. Whatever.
Let me spell it for you. Jane wants to go south. Mike wants to go south. Bonnie wants to go south. Clem wants to go south. Kenny wants to go north. Kenny screams and cries like a baby. Kenny shits on everyone else's opinions and decides that they're going north. Kenny disregards that there is formula in Howe's showing his disregard for the baby's safety and wellbeing. All because he wanted to find dream town 'Wellington'. Selfish. Get it?
Well, I think Kenny wasn't fond of the guy who caused Duck and Katjaa's deaths.
You didn't answer my question.
Well that sente… morence was quite contradictory. If he cares for someone other than himself then he is not selfish. And even so, I can't exactly see why it makes Kenny an evil man if he favours his family, cos everyone is like that, from Lee to Lilly to Alvin etc. It's kinda normal for a human to look after their family more, especially during a ZA.
It's not. You look after your family because you acre about their well-being. Their well-being is you well-being therefore protecting your family is a way to protect yourself. Kenny's disregard for anyone else's opinion and safety makes him a selfish person.
Yes, Lilly, Alvin, Clem, everyone cares about their family as well, but they don't compromise other people's wellbeing and safety just to help themselves and their family.
Sarita was Kenny's moral compass, and … [view original content]
Oh, that's bullshit. He was pretty calm when shooting, Dan. Actually, it was quite disturbing. He was treating the whole situation as a game… more. He only got slightly worked up when Sarita was the one on the fence.
Being calm doesn't mean he wasn't angry about it. The point is, he was trying to help (which he even says in the following episode to Carlos) but his actions had consequences, I don't deny that. He only shoots Alvin if Clem tells him to right? Or if she doesn't intervene when she's inside. I think that it's not a case of that he doesn't care about anyone else as you stated, i just think that it has to get to a point when someone he cares "more" about to be in a dangerous position for him to finally realise he needs to stop because he can be irrational at times.
Are you going to argue that Kenny didn't believe that Alvin's life would be in danger if he shot?
Well he believed he had a clear shot on Carver but his ai… [view original content]
I'll spice up the listing structure a bit.
From favorite down to the shittiest.
Favorites
Clementine
Lee
Molly
Christa
… moreSam
Inoffensively Standard
Omid
Luke, scratch that... the whole Cabin group.
Shitty shit sacks
AJ
Jane
Mike
Carver
Bonnie
The St. Johns
Arvo
Troy
Kenny, the almighty evil reincarnate himself.
I'd have to check, but I think he also does it if she remains silent.
I think that it's not a case of that he doesn't care about anyone else as you stated
I'm not saying that he didn't totally care about them. I'm saying that he was careless and reckless when the life of a stranger to him was on the fence but when it was a person he cared about, he didn't think twice before giving up.
Because he then finally realised at that point that what he was doing was going too far. If Rebecca was held at gunpoint instead, i still think he's give up. He'd think of the fact shes pregnant as a reason. I know you'll disagree with that but i do think after the determinant second killing, he finally used his head to realise what he was doing needed to stop.
The only thing that pisses me off is the fact that he only decides to think when it's someone he gives a damn about. That he wasn't above putting a stranger's life at risk but when it was is girlfriend he immediately stops.
Well what would you have done then? Hidden or ran away like Luke did? Let your friends be captured?
Yes. I would try to find Luke with Kenny. Carver wasn't going to wait forever. If we were lucky enough to find him on time and get back to the cabin before Carver took everyone away, then great. We'd ambush them while they were moving everyone to the truck. If not, the three of them would follow them to Howe's and work from the outside to free everyone. Perhaps if they had done this, Walter would still be alive. Shooting in that hostage situation was the same as putting a death sentence in one of our friends.
I still think how Luke made it all the way back to Howe's was unrealistic as well.
Why? We don't know how far Howe's is from the ski lodge. Since the end of A House Divided to Luke's reapearence in In Harms Way a whole day and some hours pass by. Luke could've been walking all day. At least it seemed so, since he was clearly exausted and hungry when we first see him.
the least Luke could have done is been there to help as well in some way.
Luke was there to help, though. He tries to in In Harms Way. Perhaps he did saw our group get captured, but what good was he going to do by trying to fight 3 armed men? Get himself captured as well? He came back and helped the way he could. Perhaps if he had Clem and Kenny support he could've freed our group and captured Carver.
Disagree. He could have asked Clem to leave with just him even before AJ was born but he didn't. After Rebecca dies (therefore no longer having any ties between mother and son) he could have took her and AJ away but he didn't. He still stayed with the group so why?? Because deep down he's not the monster some people think he is. He just goes about how he is to them in a rude, aggressive way but only out of frustration of the situation, not because he doesn't give a shit. As i've said, some people can't control their emotions hence why the others each respond differently.
Because Clem had ties to these people. Maybe because it was their best chance of surviving and finding Wellington. Maybe because he knew the others wouldn't let AJ just go. What do you think would happen to Kenny IF Clem had died in the Russian ambush? I don't think it would take long before Kenny and the others took separate paths.
Anyways, I'm not saying he didn't give a shit about everyone in the group. I think he cared about them, to an extent.
I'm saying he didn't give a shit about what they thought, wanted or said. He wanted them to follow his plan and that is selfish of him because that was a group, not his dictatorship.
Nu uh whatever your name is:
Yeah, sorry for using your name so much. That must be uncomfortable. I'll stop.
Word it better??? He got the truck working FOR everyone whom he thought would be grateful and come with him. It may have been specially ready for it to go North but he still got it working "for the group" before they even discussed where they were planning to go
He got it working for a group who would agree to go North with him. Which was not the case.
A horrible comment he made to them which he later (as you even pointed out) rectified and asked Clem to convince them of going up north. He wouldn't do that if he didn't have an ounce of guilt or humanity for people.
Again, I'm not saying that he was some unhuman monster who didn't care about anyone, I'm saying that it was selfish of him to not care about what everyone else wanted.
Hmmm I don't know. If Clem chose to stay, i just can't see Kenny leaving her. Then of course there is AJ to consider. He would most likely end up accepting everyone else's plan as he always eventually sees reason or when someone like Clem or Lee convinces him or calms him down.
Maybe. Maybe not. I can see him doing that, though, yes.
Yes and whilst i realise the he was putting people in danger, he did stop the train in the end thanks to being convinced or sense being knocked into him which is what he needs a lot of the time. I don't deny that. But again, if a loved one is dying, you can't always handle it and you make rash decisions and because he was in denial it came across as stubborn. He wasn't thinking straight.
Fair enough.
If I felt ganged up on like Kenny probably did, i'd feel the same way. Kind of like on these forums right?
Oh, come on. He wasn't being ganged up. He was being reasoned with. Bonnie and Jane were pretty calm when talking to him, only Mike was being passive agressive. Needless to say that Kenny was too.
I said Howe's was just as dangerous as going to Wellington because if the walkers had still been there they'd have problems. You didn't consider AJ would most likely cause noise regardless if they camped nearby and sent a few people in covered in guts. Sound carries. Not just that, how can anyone really be sure food and formula would still be there? What if in the mayhem, Howe's accidentally or intentionally was burned to the ground? They weren't all to know the state of Howe's condition. So going back was a risk either way whether you like that or not. You see i look deep into things on what the situation could be.
I disagree with most of this. Going to Howe's was more safe than wandering around in the cold. You mention AJ crying and attracting zombies, but don't forget that AJ crying while looking for Wellington would be just as dangerous as him crying while heading/camping south. They couldn't be sure there was food and formula, but at least it was likely, while the likeliness of actually finding Wellington without freezing to death or starve to death or having serious problems with frostbite was very close to zero.
Heading back was risky and uncertain, sure, but going North to find a place they had no evidence existed was way more.
Going back to Howe's, stabilizing and get a safe place for AJ was arguably their better option. Nothing was stopping them for looking for Wellington once they were more stable in terms of supplies.
And for the record (ooh don't be shocked by this) but even I preferred the Howe's plan to the Wellington plan. I am not a 100% Kenny on everything so please understand that. You only have to ask what things I didn't agree with him on.
I'm not! I can understand Kenny wanting to go there because he was short tempered and had little time to plan stuff out, but I can't understand people like us who can properly think it through and analyse the risk of both plans thinking that Wellington was their best bet.
If you don't mind me asking, what was your opinion on Jane before she did what she did at the end of No Going Back? Were you like 'whatever' to her character? Did you like her or did you already dislike her?
Oh, that's bullshit. He was pretty calm when shooting, Dan. Actually, it was quite disturbing. He was treating the whole situation as a game… more. He only got slightly worked up when Sarita was the one on the fence.
Being calm doesn't mean he wasn't angry about it. The point is, he was trying to help (which he even says in the following episode to Carlos) but his actions had consequences, I don't deny that. He only shoots Alvin if Clem tells him to right? Or if she doesn't intervene when she's inside. I think that it's not a case of that he doesn't care about anyone else as you stated, i just think that it has to get to a point when someone he cares "more" about to be in a dangerous position for him to finally realise he needs to stop because he can be irrational at times.
Are you going to argue that Kenny didn't believe that Alvin's life would be in danger if he shot?
Well he believed he had a clear shot on Carver but his ai… [view original content]
I'd say my top 10 favorite list is.
1) Lee Everett (Obviously)
2) Clementine
3) Kenny
4) Chuck (Charles if you're fancy)
5) Carley
6… more) Omid
7) Mike
8) Luke
9) Molly
10) Peter Joseph Randall (A.K.A. Pete from Season 2)
My top 10 disliked characters (I wouldn't say "Hated")
1) Stranger
2) Carver
3) Larry
4) Troy
5) Danny St. John
6) Brenda St. John
7) Michelle (You expected Andy St. John huh? nah, I like this one!)
8) Bonnie
9) Jane
10) CL4P-TP (A.K.A. Claptrap - You didn't expect him to be here too right?)
* Lee
* Clementine
* Kenny
* Chuck
* Walter
* Matthew
* Sarita
* Pete
* Khatja
* Molly
Hated.
1. Arvo
2. Larry
3. Ben
4. Jane
5. Carver
6. Lilley
7. Bonnie
8. Talia
9. Mike
10. Nick
I didn't really hate any characters. Each brought something to the story(ies). Now there were characters that I liked more than others b/c they brought more to the story, but I can't stay that I hated any characters. I guess my favorites would have to be:
Clementine(s2)
Lee
Carley
Molly
Carver
Lilly
Jane
Luke
Christa & Omid
10.Kenny
The first 3 are my top 3. #s 4-10 aren't in any particular order other than when I thought of them.
I didn't really hate any characters. Each brought something to the story(ies). Now there were characters that I liked more than others b/c t… morehey brought more to the story, but I can't stay that I hated any characters. I guess my favorites would have to be:
* Clementine(s2)
* Lee
* Carley
* Molly
* Carver
* Lilly
* Jane
* Luke
* Christa & Omid
10.Kenny
The first 3 are my top 3. #s 4-10 aren't in any particular order other than when I thought of them.
Well if I did just rank her for how she was in All that Remains she would've been far higher. Why is she still on it? I just wasn't too fond of her character in general, even after she became friendly with Clem. Loved Alvin though.
To be fair, Rebecca is the character who even I think is among, if not the worst member of the Cabin Group.
She was introduced as an absolute bitch who isn't just like towards Clementine and Nick, but Alvin as well. Plus, should you stay silent during her first appearance, actually tries to take the gun from Nick so she could presumably execute Clementine on the spot, something Lilly learned was a big no-no when I'm at the controller. She was the number one person against helping Clementine ahead of Nick and arguably Carlos, in which she gets on Alvin's case when he tries to stand up for her and later determinately helps her behind Rebecca's back. While I tried to consistently immerse myself in the game which meant thinking like Clementine would after what has happened over the past 16+ months, Rebecca was probably one of the first times Clementine acted in a cruel manner because I legitimately thought Rebecca was so much of a bitch at the time that basically blackmailing her into getting her attitude in check was the proper response at the time even if I don't know if Clementine would go that far.
Come the second episode, her being vindictively suspicious of Clementine at first before becoming very kind and tender towards her has little to no transition for it, making her change in attitude less natural and more sudden. That was a legitimate problem that couldn't be just ignored by some players, though it is kinda funny how what I consider to be the best episode of the Season is also the one that introduces a few of the problems that later episodes would have, just nowhere near as problematic. I used to think the occasional hatred I've seen for her was a tad unfounded, but looking back on it, it's more like a case of Never Live It Down. Then again, that creepy moment where Clementine got her to zip it in Episode 1 was cathartic enough for me, plus it takes a lot of character to own up to your mistakes/misdeeds and I respect that. For the rest of the episode, Rebecca seeks encouragement from Clementine concerning her stress over her family, before determinately losing Alvin due to a pissin' match between Carver and Kenny.
One of the many things that made Episode 3 feel so bare was the fact that it didn't explain her relationship with Carver so that we would have a better idea of what her dilemma was. As someone who tries to be patient and forgiving of those I think have some good on them, this was an omission that I think hurt her arc quite a bit since it fails to retroactively justify her initial hostility towards Clementine, who she opposed on the grounds that she could be working for Carver. I'd even argue she was less justified than Brie, since her respective villain was several feet above her group and actively out to purge them, while Rebecca is the main reason that Carver both comes after the group and hauls them all back to camp when he catches most of them. With that critique out of the way, she actually gets a fair amount of limelight as a soon-to-be/recently widowed woman who goes through some serious separation anxiety concerning the absence of Alvin, forms something resembling a friendship with Kenny and Sarita, and helps formulate an escape plan at super time using her previous position as a secretary making announcements through the PA system. She eventually gets her payback in the form of a front row seat to Carver's karmic death, where we get this quiet moment where Rebecca walks over to his corpse, slowly kneels down to pick up his pistol, and glances down at him with the same cold expression still on her face. It might just be me, but I think this is another big example as to how her relationship with Carver affects the strength of the story: while this was meant to be something of an empowering moment for Rebecca due to the destroyer of her family being brutally executed, I feel like it wasn't as powerful as it should've been because it wasn't earned as much as it should've been.
In episode 4, she finds Clementine and Jane after they get separated from the rest of her group and has her previous insecurities dug up due to losing her nerve while trying to sneak through the herd and Jane's insensitive comments about the upcoming arrival her baby. After this, she spends the majority of the episode hanging around the Parker's Run statue as everyone else (besides Kenny and Sarah) goes off to prepare for the delivery process. Maybe Clementine could've recalled Christa's own baby during the period where Rebecca was going through labor and have helped with the knowledge she gained from that experience, but this isn't what happens. While I don't think we needed a birthing minigame, Rebecca joined in on what was definitely a serious overarching problem with Season 2: Clementine herself doesn't really matter much to a certain degree, to the point that pretty much everything she should have a personal investment in feels like it was either downplayed, cut short, or simply moved in favor of the likes of Kenny and, to a slightly lesser extent, Jane. While I do like the few conversations they have together because it really serves to show how humble Rebecca has become sense Clementine was first brought to the Cabin, she spends the rest of the episode in the company of Kenny, who is recruited on Bonnie's behalf to help guide Rebecca through her pregnancy using what knowledge he has from when Duck was being born. After a close call, a few funny lines, and a stressful birth period, Rebecca gets a few hours to spend clinging to her baby as her health declines due to complications involving the birthing process and the oncoming cold weather. She ultimately serves as the fuse that sparks the blastout with the Russian Group as she passes away sitting on a tire desperately holding onto her baby as the group talks and later argues with the returning Arvo, as her walker ends up being headshot by Clementine/Kenny in order to protect the baby.
And in episode 5, the group all gather around her deader body and mourn her loss after the firefight with the Russian Group ends, which also ends this sequence when Kenny attacks Arvo due to being angry about Rebecca's death. Not to mention that out of all the Cabin Group members who had died, only Rebecca and Alvin are portrayed in a positive light at this point due to putting her trust in him and being the parents of the baby who would motivate Kenny to behave much more actively aggressive towards friend and foe alike. While Kenny and/or Jane's fate end up being sealed with his well-being acting as a tipping point, AJ goes on alongside Clementine to survive the Season and is expected to be a recurring element in Season 3.
The fact of the matter is that some players never forgave due to her 180 from her bitchy attitude. At least she, Nick, and Sarah were definitely established with the intention to develop their storylines in mind, but the way they ended up being executed was mixed. I have yet to see anymore than one person(zombiebonnie) say they legitimately liked her and she had the most complete(if a bit by the numbers) storyline of the three. And even then, "Who's yo Baby-Daddy" isn't exactly the most attractive or politically correct basis for a character. Maybe it's a sign that I should just go back and examine her character more thoroughly, but the only keywords I associate with her at the moment are Pregnancy, Family, and Vulnerability.
Well if I did just rank her for how she was in All that Remains she would've been far higher. Why is she still on it? I just wasn't too fond of her character in general, even after she became friendly with Clem. Loved Alvin though.
I just find the dude creepy. He has a personality of being overly nice and someone who is like that during an apocalypse is never trustworthy, granted he never did anything wrong, but he immediately gave me a bad vibe. Buying into all of Carver's bullshit. Then he goes and blames me "Clementine I told you to help her!" No you did not motherfucker, you asked me if she (Sarah) would be okay and I said that she was a baby, and you walked away! Not once did you ever ask for me to help her. He's just a guy that wasn't meant for a zombie apocalypse and his character served the sole purpose of making Carver look evil. He added no value to the game at all.
I just find the dude creepy. He has a personality of being overly nice and someone who is like that during an apocalypse is never trustworthy, granted he never did anything wrong, but he immediately gave me a bad vibe.
Kinda like Sarah did for me at first--look at her now!
I wanted to ask because Reggie is a character that is rarely brought up around here but got negative and deriding reactions the few times I've seen people mention him. I actually found him to be one of the most sympathetic characters of the Season, so it genuinely baffled me to see that.
Buying into all of Carver's bullshit.
That's something I want to address at some point.
EDIT: Actually, I already did here!
Then he goes and blames me "Clementine I told you to help her!" No you did not motherfucker, you asked me if she (Sarah) would be okay and I said that she was a baby, and you walked away! Not once did you ever ask for me to help her.
You know what, I completely failed to notice that!
He's just a guy that wasn't meant for a zombie apocalypse and his character served the sole purpose of making Carver look evil. He added no value to the game at all.
When I heard people say that Season 2 was made to have shorter episode than Season, Reggie was one the first things I thought of when looking for proof. Had the Season stuck to its guns on the things it set up and established, Reggie should've been someone who forced the Cabin Group to remember their mistakes(which Rebecca, Sarah, and especially Nick do), helped make the community itself feel relevant, and, as you mentioned, explain the extent of Carver's Corruption over time.
Sure, happy to explain.
I just find the dude creepy. He has a personality of being overly nice and someone who is like that during an ap… moreocalypse is never trustworthy, granted he never did anything wrong, but he immediately gave me a bad vibe. Buying into all of Carver's bullshit. Then he goes and blames me "Clementine I told you to help her!" No you did not motherfucker, you asked me if she (Sarah) would be okay and I said that she was a baby, and you walked away! Not once did you ever ask for me to help her. He's just a guy that wasn't meant for a zombie apocalypse and his character served the sole purpose of making Carver look evil. He added no value to the game at all.
Love
1. Clementine
2. Lee
3. Juice Box (Juice Box Lives!)
4. N8 (The hero we deserve)
5. Jane
6. Chuck
7. Omid
8. Luke
9. Katja
10… more. Lilly
Hate
1. Kenneth (just awful)
2. Arvo
3. Bonnie (Never trust a junkie)
4. Mike
5. Nick
6. The Stranger
7. Carver (ep 3, episode 2 Carver was freaking awesome)
8. Sarah (ugh, good job TTG)
9. Ben
10. Becca
I would like to put Javier on the hated list, but I guess that's unfair.
Comments
Oh look! Another debate about Kenny! How Swell!
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot I couldn't mention Kenny or even talk a bit negatively about him in my comment about Mike and Bonnie without having two guys making a tantrum.
Being calm doesn't mean he wasn't angry about it. The point is, he was trying to help (which he even says in the following episode to Carlos) but his actions had consequences, I don't deny that. He only shoots Alvin if Clem tells him to right? Or if she doesn't intervene when she's inside. I think that it's not a case of that he doesn't care about anyone else as you stated, i just think that it has to get to a point when someone he cares "more" about to be in a dangerous position for him to finally realise he needs to stop because he can be irrational at times.
Well he believed he had a clear shot on Carver but his aim obviously wasn't great the second time around. Again, knowing Kenny, he didn't think about it. I don't deny that it was reckless.
Because he then finally realised at that point that what he was doing was going too far. If Rebecca was held at gunpoint instead, i still think he's give up. He'd think of the fact shes pregnant as a reason. I know you'll disagree with that but i do think after the determinant second killing, he finally used his head to realise what he was doing needed to stop.
He showed disreagard for everyone safety in this scene, specially if Clem tells him not to shoot.
Well what would you have done then? Hidden or ran away like Luke did? Let your friends be captured? I still think how Luke made it all the way back to Howe's was unrealistic as well. Kenny took a more direct approach trying to help which failed. That's all there is to it. It wasn't smart, but the least Luke could have done is been there to help as well in some way.
Disagree. He could have asked Clem to leave with just him even before AJ was born but he didn't. After Rebecca dies (therefore no longer having any ties between mother and son) he could have took her and AJ away but he didn't. He still stayed with the group so why?? Because deep down he's not the monster some people think he is. He just goes about how he is to them in a rude, aggressive way but only out of frustration of the situation, not because he doesn't give a shit. As i've said, some people can't control their emotions hence why the others each respond differently.
Nu uh whatever your name is:
"i get them a working truck, and they act like i just shit in their cereal",
Word it better??? He got the truck working FOR everyone whom he thought would be grateful and come with him. It may have been specially ready for it to go North but he still got it working "for the group" before they even discussed where they were planning to go
A horrible comment he made to them which he later (as you even pointed out) rectified and asked Clem to convince them of going up north. He wouldn't do that if he didn't have an ounce of guilt or humanity for people.
Hmmm I don't know. If Clem chose to stay, i just can't see Kenny leaving her. Then of course there is AJ to consider. He would most likely end up accepting everyone else's plan as he always eventually sees reason or when someone like Clem or Lee convinces him or calms him down.
Yes and whilst i realise the he was putting people in danger, he did stop the train in the end thanks to being convinced or sense being knocked into him which is what he needs a lot of the time. I don't deny that. But again, if a loved one is dying, you can't always handle it and you make rash decisions and because he was in denial it came across as stubborn. He wasn't thinking straight.
But not intentionally. Anyway i see what you're saying though.
Ok I obviously missed that in my playthrough as this never popped up. Mike did want to go to Texas though and Bonnie was silent in my game. But if i missed it then fine.
If I felt ganged up on like Kenny probably did, i'd feel the same way. Kind of like on these forums right?
i never said it was fucking better Mr Sarcastic! Jeez! I said Howe's was just as dangerous as going to Wellington because if the walkers had still been there they'd have problems. You didn't consider AJ would most likely cause noise regardless if they camped nearby and sent a few people in covered in guts. Sound carries. Not just that, how can anyone really be sure food and formula would still be there? What if in the mayhem, Howe's accidentally or intentionally was burned to the ground? They weren't all to know the state of Howe's condition. So going back was a risk either way whether you like that or not. You see i look deep into things on what the situation could be.
And for the record (ooh don't be shocked by this) but even I preferred the Howe's plan to the Wellington plan. I am not a 100% Kenny on everything so please understand that. You only have to ask what things I didn't agree with him on.
Fair enough. I'm sorry you got angry anyway. I'm just glad your not like Everyone'sClemInTime. At least you don't go round calling Kenny a piece of shit and wishing death on him or talking extremes about any character. Anyway sorry.
Is that so? I was talking with Chilled about Mike and Bonnie's reasons for leaving. You two popped out of nowhere and started whining because I made a sarcastic joke on Kenny and turned this into another discussion about him. Then you tow moan that people are over negative. If you guys started to lay off and stopped starting arguments for the slightest insult on him maybe you got what you wanted. So damn sensitive, geez.
Sorry i wasn't actually specifically meaning you, I meant a lot of people as a whole.
And i'm not saying you don't have the right because you do but obviously I'm going to disagree with it if it's negative. Sorry, i also have that right. Especially if i sometimes think it's a positive.
Crazy shit just comes out of my mouth sometimes. Sorry.
Btw i read your "calm down?" line in Andy St John's voice then lol.
It's just a shame that one character divides opinion so much and is basically the most discussed character here.
But you have butted in many times and tried correcting my opinion about one of "my" favourites. I don't even know who your favourite is to be honest but whoever it is, is obviously not talked about as much as Kenny. Perhaps not as much as me i admit but when you disagree you naturally take action as anyone would over something they feel strongly about such as the Kenny/Jane fight but we won't go there. Whoever your favourite is i'm sure you'd defend him/her if you felt strongly enough about it
Yes sometimes i do and i'm sorry. Can't help it if some people push my buttons in what they say though.
Again it is not always a Kenny fan that causes an argument. It happens with both sets of fans.
And that's because the forums these days have more Jane fans/or people with hate for Kenny which is why it's hard to go on any thread and seeing a character I like get hate. Heck sometimes i go on a completely irrelevant thread that has nothing to do with Kenny and he STILL gets brought up and arguments occur. Flog and Siarlark are die hard jane fans and i have seen one of the many few Kenny fans criticise Jane and one of those 2 jumps on him/her and retaliates by saying something extremely negative about Kenny even when what the kenny fan said wasn't even about Kenny being involved in the scene! So it does work both ways. You don't see it as much because of how riddled these forums are with Jane fans these days compared to the past. All the original Kenny fans i remember haven't been online for over 2 years.
Sorry man.
Chilled said "he helps her like he always does" and because you didn't like what he said, you made the comment that you did. Again it's asking for an argument if you say something you know will upset others that are fans of Kenny. Sensitive perhaps, but so sorry that we feel so strongly about the horrible sarcasm about him.
I'm not asking for an argument. Not from you two again, anyways.
It's fiction! Not real! Why does it upset you guys so much? It's not my intent to get you triggered, but damn, even the slightest comment on him will make you two blow up.
I won't restrain my freedom of speech and freedom of opinion on his character just because you two can handle it. Sorry, but I won't.
Chilled called Jane a murderous psychpath and did you see me blowing the fuck up and write an essay on her character? Try to laugh it off, dude and if you can't just ignore it.
I just realized I didn't expand on my thoughts here despite how often I visit. I'll try to edit it all in.
Favorite
Sarah: Sarah was an endearingly quirky character and the Cabin group member I felt for the most. Her character arc had a lot of potential for not only her, but Clementine, and to a lesser extent, Jane as well.
Lee: Lee Everett is a character I sometimes gloss over because of vanilla protagonist syndrome but one thing Season 1 has over Season 2 is that it made sure the story was just as much about Lee as it was any other character. He was a really respectable person and one of the greats. Plus, Scumbag Lee is such a joy that Im seriously considering doing a 3rd and 4th play through just to do my own. Can't really say the same for "Edgy" Clementine.
Michelle felt like she could have been Season 2s Jolene- unapologeticly thuggish and yet not without a few sympathetic traits and a story to tell. One of the things I like about her over a lot of other characters is that she's [one of, if not] the first black antagonists we've had in the games(never watched the show). When I drew that picture in posted in the Fan Art thread, Michelle was actually the one I was the most conflicted about since I knew going in that it would be tricky to get her street facade down pat. She's one of the characters I previously stated that I would've like to have seen more of, Omid's accident notwithstanding, in a Season some consider to be full of wasted characters. I can perfectly understand some not liking her, what with her being a bully AND a thief. But, then again, so are plenty of other characters whether good or bad(namely Clementine(oh the irony), Kenny, Becca, Carver, Troy, Jane, and Buricko). -You gotta be mean to keep goin' out here.- And she wasn't wrong, now was she?
Danny the Prisoner: Danny the Prisoner was the 400 days character that I liked the most. While the rape allegation did make me a little catious at first, his amicably noble personality in spite of it all made him incredibly likeable. Then again, Justin wasn't making it any harder.
Brenda: Brenda is probably the villain I like the most. From her natural friendliness, her welcoming voice, and her country values, she is the one main villain I recall enjoying through out her entire screen time.
Larry: Larry is an asshole, a bully, and a hardass. However, I'd be lying if I said he didn't crack me up from time to time and his apparent protectiveness and love for Lily made it clear that there really was charm coming out of his ass. He was the first group member to come to mind.
Luke: Luke was a rare hero amongst a plethora of survivors, bandits, and villains. His struggle to do right by everyone, sometimes at his own cost, made him a very respectable character and very relatable to My!Clementine.
Jolene: Jolene is arguably the most memorable characters in Season 1: a two scene wonder. She was amusing, intimidating, tragic, and she helped set the tone for the series in general.
Hate
Jane: Jane is one of the very few characters I can say I truly hate. I even did started a discussion that uses her as the example. Major reasons include: Trying to convince Clementine to abandon most of her friends and group members, Having the blood of at least three characters who would be innocent by her own standards on her hands, Constantly ducking and dodging taking responsibility and facing the consequences, Dragging down and condemning two of my favorite characters, Trying to convince Clementine to abandon most of her friends and group members, Insisting that Sarah would get herself killed because "she's just like my beloved sister Jaime(may she rest in peace)", yet ended up being the one ultimately responsible for setting up the 2nd death and having the nerve to duck around any real responsibility or consequences for it by slipping away and feigning remorse (Though, to be honest/fair, that seemed like it could've been partially genuine and you can just blame that on * shudders * bad writing.), Jumping and threatening Arvo, which causes him to come back with his group looking for payback and causes the events of Never Going Back, where everything completely goes to shit, Almost getting herself killed by the breaken asshole she intentionally provoked(if you shot Kenny, which I did on my first playthrough), Ultimately corrupting at least two characters who were still good enough to be considered heroes(YMMV), and Endangering the life of a minor just to prove a point (Three even!).
Justin: Justin, the entitled jerk who remorselessly admitted to lying in court, is definitely the top contender for most unlikable character in 400 Days. The guy practically put on a t-shirt saying "Buy my Mother: Professional Backstabber at your service" with his dialogue. He wasn't making the choice of Vince's scenario any harder, not helped by when he brings Danny's charges up when you point the gun in his direction. Which felt like one of those cheap "but at least I didn't get arrested/charged for doing X" things, to be honest; though, Danny did look kinda creepy and seemed to like teasing people, at least he seemed legitimately noble and clearly cared about his fellow man. So, while I wouldn't completely trust either of them with a gun despite being fellow convicts, that especially applies him!
That's not the sarcastic joke I was even talking about. I was refering to:
Actually, that was me sarcatically responding to Chilled's sarcastic comment. Fighting fire with fire as you said. If you go waaay back, you'll see that I was at first trying to explain why Mike and Bonnie left since Chilled seemed to be unaware of it.
Admit what? Who do you think you are to dictate and asume what my intentions with my comments are? Tyi, I was trying to defend Mike and Bonnie's action, not bash Kenny's character.
Actually, I said that with a mocking intention. I don't see how using the word whine isntead of complain would make my point any more credible.
That's just not true.
First, I don't use gifs of Kenny death and I also don't mock his death. I've mentioned this before, but I would've rather have an option to shoot Kenny in the arm than outright killing him.
Second, I talk about Kenny character when needed. If he is related to the matter at hand, I'll obviously have to talk about him. When Kensplainer randomly challange my opinion and send me essays about how right he is (like now you see?), of course I'll respond. And in threads about characters I dislike, I'll obviously talk about Kenny's character since I dislike him.
If you don't know me, don't talk and make assumptions about me.
What the fuck? Is that so? I challange you to remind me of times where I approached a Kenny fan and told something like 'Kenny sucks, lolololololol, fit meh.' in a thread that wasn't directly related to Kenny or the fight.
If I recall correctly, last time I had a fight about Kenny was in Dan's thread where you approached me with random questions about Jane motivations in the fight that had nothing to do with the matter at hand. Hypocrite.
Not cool dude. Not fucking cool.
No, I'm saying that if you stopped jumping on people who make the slightest negative comment on Kenny maybe this endless arguments that contain negativity towards him would cease to exist.
Ignores the whole comment, copies random phrase, tries to enforce the idea the other person is misunderstanding things, says that's not even going to bother trying to explain. Pathetic. Just plain pathetic.
IronWoodLover honestly man, your not that bad at all really compared to some people around here. I'm sorry for offending you I really am. I guess I can't always help it. Just some things are said that hit a nerve. I suppose sometimes I think back to the abuse I received from people on YouTube but your not like that
Thank you. You're the most reasonable Kenny fan I've came across if I'm being honest. And I have to acknowledge that sometimes I'm excessively smug/sarcastic/mocking in the way I talk about Kenny. Sorry if that pisses you off, that's not the intention.
I know man, i get carried away A LOT and i know Everyone'sClemInTime is not talking to me right now after the argument i had last night with him. I'll try to not cause any arguments in future but to be honest, i never intend to. It just turns into one with each reply i guess
Honorable Mentions for Spatial Issues
Like
1. Walter:
Mike:
Troy:
Vitali?:
Oak:
Shel is a character I tend to forget but her scenario and need to make sure here sister grows up right in a world like that, despite Becca's harsh demeanor, made her the most sympathetic of the 400 days protagonists-
Dislike
Carlos: Carlos was an obvious unintentionally unsympathetic example given his lack of worthwhile redeeming qualities outside of his protectiveness of Sarah and later Clementine. However, I've since grown accustomed to his faults and made my peace with him (mentally of course, since he's kinda parking lot food). He served his purpose fairly well, which is more than some can say for a few other characters.
Arvo: I made a point about how while I didn't like Arvo, I thought it was easy to feel sorry for him since he was at a constant disadvantage. The guy shows up looking like an easy target, gets held up thanks to a (badass) little girl, has his own friends laugh at and push him around, loses his sister in a confrontation he clearly didn't want to be a part of from the getgo, gets abused by Kenny, has all of Carver's former workers take pity on him, and gets treated like this terrible villain in a series of unfortunate events that built up to his one true malicious act when he seemed to just be thrown into situations where he barely had a choice. I even outright called him a plot device after a certain point. I find Arvo to be too harmless, dumb, ineffectual, easy-targetish, and weakwilled for me to actively hate. I don't really like him but not hate either: almost-not-quite negatively neutral. Plus, he's nowhere near the menace to society he's supposed to be, especially compared to Jane.
Carver:(Just not enough care to hate) Carver was a Big Bad that should've played a more active role, but ended up being a corny predictable villain, especially in Episode 3. Literally the moment I first saw him, I immediately got "Social Darwinist," which fits well into this genre but there wasn't much else outside of that. The idea that some actually preferred and sided with him over the Cabin Group is a bit odd. Admittedly, the problem with Carver from day 1 was that, even knowing that the villain's name was Carver before I played the game, it was pretty obvious he was bad news just by looking at him, with his scruffy middle-aged dirty forest ranger look. The fact that he tried to suggest that Clementine shouldn't trust the Cabin Group, however valid it may have been at the time(though admittedly, this was only moments after I decided that I genuinely liked Sarah), felt a little too convenient at the time, so I decided to judge how trustworthy they were for myself while keeping in mind that either of them could betray Clementine at any moment. And while I admit that I was a bit surprised none of the Cabin Group tried to do so, my impressions were confirmed when Carver was hauling the group to his domain with his (predictable) true colors revealed. While he seemed to have legitimate points about a number of things, I'm not really inclined to believe a guy who immediately killed someone (scholarly nice guy Walter, who just had his heart broken and his trust betrayed twice, for the record) the first chance he got and smugly brought up that Alvin(the only one I completely liked from the start) killed this 'George' person while taking him hostage and pointing a gun to his head, without us ever learning the context behind it outside of George being Carver's friend.
Becca?:
Brie?: Brie is an example that's mostly my fault: I panicked when I met Vernon for the first time and said I had medicine when I didn't. So, later that night, when everyone who gathered in Crawford and were assigning their roles, Brie refused to speak to me about much. I was kinda meh on her beforehand, but this upturned nose behavior made me dislike her enough that her unusually brutal death didn't really bother me. However, I do feel bad that Vernon lost her in the process.
[removed]
So witty of you. Copying stuff I said that have no relation with what you're saying. I wanted to take you seriously.
I just wanted to make sure that people could see what you had just done there. Ran out of arguments and tried to imply that I'm being irrational and don't know what I'm talking about. Please, if I'm not reading the situation right, prove me wrong and explain what you meant by that. If you don't want to... well, I guess you don't need to. No-one's making you. We can just move on with our lives. Whatever.
Liked:
The only argument you really need right there.
This goes out to all of you and everyone else on the internet:
You can express an opinion without demanding others acknowledge that you are right.
You can express an opinion with being insulting, and resorting to name-calling, sarcasm, etc.
You can express an opinion without making generalisations.
You can express an opinion without lying, embellishing, or being an apologist.
AJ? Why??? Wouldn't he be neutral since he isn't old enough to have a personality?
I'd have to check, but I think he also does it if she remains silent.
I'm not saying that he didn't totally care about them. I'm saying that he was careless and reckless when the life of a stranger to him was on the fence but when it was a person he cared about, he didn't think twice before giving up.
The only thing that pisses me off is the fact that he only decides to think when it's someone he gives a damn about. That he wasn't above putting a stranger's life at risk but when it was is girlfriend he immediately stops.
Yes. I would try to find Luke with Kenny. Carver wasn't going to wait forever. If we were lucky enough to find him on time and get back to the cabin before Carver took everyone away, then great. We'd ambush them while they were moving everyone to the truck. If not, the three of them would follow them to Howe's and work from the outside to free everyone. Perhaps if they had done this, Walter would still be alive. Shooting in that hostage situation was the same as putting a death sentence in one of our friends.
Why? We don't know how far Howe's is from the ski lodge. Since the end of A House Divided to Luke's reapearence in In Harms Way a whole day and some hours pass by. Luke could've been walking all day. At least it seemed so, since he was clearly exausted and hungry when we first see him.
Luke was there to help, though. He tries to in In Harms Way. Perhaps he did saw our group get captured, but what good was he going to do by trying to fight 3 armed men? Get himself captured as well? He came back and helped the way he could. Perhaps if he had Clem and Kenny support he could've freed our group and captured Carver.
Because Clem had ties to these people. Maybe because it was their best chance of surviving and finding Wellington. Maybe because he knew the others wouldn't let AJ just go. What do you think would happen to Kenny IF Clem had died in the Russian ambush? I don't think it would take long before Kenny and the others took separate paths.
Anyways, I'm not saying he didn't give a shit about everyone in the group. I think he cared about them, to an extent.
I'm saying he didn't give a shit about what they thought, wanted or said. He wanted them to follow his plan and that is selfish of him because that was a group, not his dictatorship.
Yeah, sorry for using your name so much. That must be uncomfortable. I'll stop.
He got it working for a group who would agree to go North with him. Which was not the case.
Again, I'm not saying that he was some unhuman monster who didn't care about anyone, I'm saying that it was selfish of him to not care about what everyone else wanted.
Maybe. Maybe not. I can see him doing that, though, yes.
Fair enough.
Oh, come on. He wasn't being ganged up. He was being reasoned with. Bonnie and Jane were pretty calm when talking to him, only Mike was being passive agressive. Needless to say that Kenny was too.
I disagree with most of this. Going to Howe's was more safe than wandering around in the cold. You mention AJ crying and attracting zombies, but don't forget that AJ crying while looking for Wellington would be just as dangerous as him crying while heading/camping south. They couldn't be sure there was food and formula, but at least it was likely, while the likeliness of actually finding Wellington without freezing to death or starve to death or having serious problems with frostbite was very close to zero.
Heading back was risky and uncertain, sure, but going North to find a place they had no evidence existed was way more.
Going back to Howe's, stabilizing and get a safe place for AJ was arguably their better option. Nothing was stopping them for looking for Wellington once they were more stable in terms of supplies.
I'm not! I can understand Kenny wanting to go there because he was short tempered and had little time to plan stuff out, but I can't understand people like us who can properly think it through and analyse the risk of both plans thinking that Wellington was their best bet.
If you don't mind me asking, what was your opinion on Jane before she did what she did at the end of No Going Back? Were you like 'whatever' to her character? Did you like her or did you already dislike her?
Who?
It's a reference from another game. It was a joke tho.
K.
What did you hate about Tavia and Nick?
I didn't really hate any characters. Each brought something to the story(ies). Now there were characters that I liked more than others b/c they brought more to the story, but I can't stay that I hated any characters. I guess my favorites would have to be:
10.Kenny
The first 3 are my top 3. #s 4-10 aren't in any particular order other than when I thought of them.
Lol Christa & Omid count as one.
Favourites:
Disliked (I generally just disliked characters you're supposed to dislike):
LOVE
DISLIKE:
1: Jane
2: Arvo
3. Troy
4. Larry
5. Lilly
6. The Stranger
7. Carver
8. Michelle
9. Reggie
10. Randall
Well if I did just rank her for how she was in All that Remains she would've been far higher. Why is she still on it? I just wasn't too fond of her character in general, even after she became friendly with Clem. Loved Alvin though.
To be fair, Rebecca is the character who even I think is among, if not the worst member of the Cabin Group.
She was introduced as an absolute bitch who isn't just like towards Clementine and Nick, but Alvin as well. Plus, should you stay silent during her first appearance, actually tries to take the gun from Nick so she could presumably execute Clementine on the spot, something Lilly learned was a big no-no when I'm at the controller. She was the number one person against helping Clementine ahead of Nick and arguably Carlos, in which she gets on Alvin's case when he tries to stand up for her and later determinately helps her behind Rebecca's back. While I tried to consistently immerse myself in the game which meant thinking like Clementine would after what has happened over the past 16+ months, Rebecca was probably one of the first times Clementine acted in a cruel manner because I legitimately thought Rebecca was so much of a bitch at the time that basically blackmailing her into getting her attitude in check was the proper response at the time even if I don't know if Clementine would go that far.
Come the second episode, her being vindictively suspicious of Clementine at first before becoming very kind and tender towards her has little to no transition for it, making her change in attitude less natural and more sudden. That was a legitimate problem that couldn't be just ignored by some players, though it is kinda funny how what I consider to be the best episode of the Season is also the one that introduces a few of the problems that later episodes would have, just nowhere near as problematic. I used to think the occasional hatred I've seen for her was a tad unfounded, but looking back on it, it's more like a case of Never Live It Down. Then again, that creepy moment where Clementine got her to zip it in Episode 1 was cathartic enough for me, plus it takes a lot of character to own up to your mistakes/misdeeds and I respect that. For the rest of the episode, Rebecca seeks encouragement from Clementine concerning her stress over her family, before determinately losing Alvin due to a pissin' match between Carver and Kenny.
One of the many things that made Episode 3 feel so bare was the fact that it didn't explain her relationship with Carver so that we would have a better idea of what her dilemma was. As someone who tries to be patient and forgiving of those I think have some good on them, this was an omission that I think hurt her arc quite a bit since it fails to retroactively justify her initial hostility towards Clementine, who she opposed on the grounds that she could be working for Carver. I'd even argue she was less justified than Brie, since her respective villain was several feet above her group and actively out to purge them, while Rebecca is the main reason that Carver both comes after the group and hauls them all back to camp when he catches most of them. With that critique out of the way, she actually gets a fair amount of limelight as a soon-to-be/recently widowed woman who goes through some serious separation anxiety concerning the absence of Alvin, forms something resembling a friendship with Kenny and Sarita, and helps formulate an escape plan at super time using her previous position as a secretary making announcements through the PA system. She eventually gets her payback in the form of a front row seat to Carver's karmic death, where we get this quiet moment where Rebecca walks over to his corpse, slowly kneels down to pick up his pistol, and glances down at him with the same cold expression still on her face. It might just be me, but I think this is another big example as to how her relationship with Carver affects the strength of the story: while this was meant to be something of an empowering moment for Rebecca due to the destroyer of her family being brutally executed, I feel like it wasn't as powerful as it should've been because it wasn't earned as much as it should've been.
In episode 4, she finds Clementine and Jane after they get separated from the rest of her group and has her previous insecurities dug up due to losing her nerve while trying to sneak through the herd and Jane's insensitive comments about the upcoming arrival her baby. After this, she spends the majority of the episode hanging around the Parker's Run statue as everyone else (besides Kenny and Sarah) goes off to prepare for the delivery process. Maybe Clementine could've recalled Christa's own baby during the period where Rebecca was going through labor and have helped with the knowledge she gained from that experience, but this isn't what happens. While I don't think we needed a birthing minigame, Rebecca joined in on what was definitely a serious overarching problem with Season 2: Clementine herself doesn't really matter much to a certain degree, to the point that pretty much everything she should have a personal investment in feels like it was either downplayed, cut short, or simply moved in favor of the likes of Kenny and, to a slightly lesser extent, Jane. While I do like the few conversations they have together because it really serves to show how humble Rebecca has become sense Clementine was first brought to the Cabin, she spends the rest of the episode in the company of Kenny, who is recruited on Bonnie's behalf to help guide Rebecca through her pregnancy using what knowledge he has from when Duck was being born. After a close call, a few funny lines, and a stressful birth period, Rebecca gets a few hours to spend clinging to her baby as her health declines due to complications involving the birthing process and the oncoming cold weather. She ultimately serves as the fuse that sparks the blastout with the Russian Group as she passes away sitting on a tire desperately holding onto her baby as the group talks and later argues with the returning Arvo, as her walker ends up being headshot by Clementine/Kenny in order to protect the baby.
And in episode 5, the group all gather around her deader body and mourn her loss after the firefight with the Russian Group ends, which also ends this sequence when Kenny attacks Arvo due to being angry about Rebecca's death. Not to mention that out of all the Cabin Group members who had died, only Rebecca and Alvin are portrayed in a positive light at this point due to putting her trust in him and being the parents of the baby who would motivate Kenny to behave much more actively aggressive towards friend and foe alike. While Kenny and/or Jane's fate end up being sealed with his well-being acting as a tipping point, AJ goes on alongside Clementine to survive the Season and is expected to be a recurring element in Season 3.
The fact of the matter is that some players never forgave due to her 180 from her bitchy attitude. At least she, Nick, and Sarah were definitely established with the intention to develop their storylines in mind, but the way they ended up being executed was mixed. I have yet to see anymore than one person(zombiebonnie) say they legitimately liked her and she had the most complete(if a bit by the numbers) storyline of the three. And even then, "Who's yo Baby-Daddy" isn't exactly the most attractive or politically correct basis for a character. Maybe it's a sign that I should just go back and examine her character more thoroughly, but the only keywords I associate with her at the moment are Pregnancy, Family, and Vulnerability.
Okay, may I ask: Why do you(and a number of people) dislike Reggie?
Sure, happy to explain.
I just find the dude creepy. He has a personality of being overly nice and someone who is like that during an apocalypse is never trustworthy, granted he never did anything wrong, but he immediately gave me a bad vibe. Buying into all of Carver's bullshit. Then he goes and blames me "Clementine I told you to help her!" No you did not motherfucker, you asked me if she (Sarah) would be okay and I said that she was a baby, and you walked away! Not once did you ever ask for me to help her. He's just a guy that wasn't meant for a zombie apocalypse and his character served the sole purpose of making Carver look evil. He added no value to the game at all.
Kinda like Sarah did for me at first--look at her now!
I wanted to ask because Reggie is a character that is rarely brought up around here but got negative and deriding reactions the few times I've seen people mention him. I actually found him to be one of the most sympathetic characters of the Season, so it genuinely baffled me to see that.
That's something I want to address at some point.
EDIT: Actually, I already did here!
You know what, I completely failed to notice that!
When I heard people say that Season 2 was made to have shorter episode than Season, Reggie was one the first things I thought of when looking for proof. Had the Season stuck to its guns on the things it set up and established, Reggie should've been someone who forced the Cabin Group to remember their mistakes(which Rebecca, Sarah, and especially Nick do), helped make the community itself feel relevant, and, as you mentioned, explain the extent of Carver's Corruption over time.
Favorites:
Clementine
Lee
Kenny
Christa
Pete (TWDS2)
Sarah
Walter
Luke
Dislike:
AJ
Troy
Stranger
Arvo
Favorites:
Lee
Mark
Lilly
Mike
Arvo
Nick
Sarah
Carver
Rebecca
Stephanie
Disliked:
Kenny
Tavia
Ben
Clementine
Vernon
Troy
Jane
Shel
Becca
Molly
What a nice, interesting bump this is.
Here's my top 5 in no order
Still pretty accurate
Love
1. Clementine
2. Lee
3. Kenny
4. Carley
5. Omid
6. Christa
7. Molly
8. Lilly
9. Chuck
10. Javier
Hate
1. The Stranger
2. Arvo
3. Carver
4. Troy
5. Joan
6. Randall
7. Badger
8. Becca
9. Larry
10. Danny St. John