Yes I did, I started from issue 3... had to really go hunting to get hold of them in the UK. She was fine in the comics but she annoys me a little bit on screen.
which of these did you mean?
# "Quoted For Truth" - an acronym commonly used on internet forums.
# "Quit Fucking Trying/Talking" - also an acronym used on internet forums, mostly gaming.
which of these did you mean?
# "Quoted For Truth" - an acronym commonly used on internet forums.
# "Quit Fucking Trying/Talking" - also an acronym used on internet forums, mostly gaming.
In most forums, QFT is the first meaning in the vast majority of cases. There's plenty of other anagrams for the second meaning.
I've never heard of anything other than Quoted For Truth.
Also, the comics were awesome. I remember when the Death Egg saga comics and the Endgame Series first came out. My brother was a huge follower of them. So I got to read most of them without having to pay anything .
Sonic's a heartbreaker. The best of them are really on the god-tier of platform games, but once Sega realized they could put out shit and it would still sell they've been forcing underbaked games out before they're ready.
Sonic 1: Timeless classic, completely unreal in the time it was released
Sonic 2: The ultimate speed platformer. More action, breakneck pace.
Sonic 3: Broader level design, more exploration, but still amazing flow.
Sonic & Knuckles: Sonic 3 outtakes. Underwhelming and the first time Sonic went downhill.
Sonic Adventure: Pretty damned epic. I don't know if the adventure elements worked except as filler, but this did what I thought was impossible: Make Sonic really work in 3D
Sonic Adventure 2: Even better than the first SA, pure action, no filler. Even if the Tails and Knux levels aren't as good, they're still entertaining.
After this we run into problems fast...
Sonic Heroes: Garbage. It just copies and pastes level segments over and over for boring, unrefined, dragged out gameplay. Sonic's backbone has always been the level design, and it's just not here.
Shadow the Hedgehog: Not as terrible as people assume, but not a true Sonic game by any stretch. Ok.
Sonic 2006: Had a TON of potential, solid gameplay mechanics, a good approach, but it was forced out WAY before it was ready with glaring technical flaws and a general lack of polish.
Sonic Unleashed: Boils the Sonic game down to a parody of itself. Mindless speed without any depth or flow. Feels more like F-Zero than Sonic. The Werehog parts are terrible.
Sonic Rush: This and its sequel are actually surprisingly excellent. The level design is refined enough that time attack challenges are really fun and the new gameplay systems make sense. Shame the look and sound isn't quite there.
Sonic 3: Broader level design, more exploration, but still amazing flow.
Sonic & Knuckles: Sonic 3 outtakes. Underwhelming and the first time Sonic went downhill.
Sonic 2006: Had a TON of potential, solid gameplay mechanics, a good approach, but it was forced out WAY before it was ready with glaring technical flaws and a general lack of polish.
Sonic Unleashed: Boils the Sonic game down to a parody of itself. Mindless speed without any depth or flow. Feels more like F-Zero than Sonic. The Werehog parts are terrible.
Gonna have to disagree with you on these games.
Sonic & Knuckles is, literally, a part of Sonic 3. If you combine the two, you have what Sonic Team meant Sonic 3 to be in its entirety. Unfortunately, they had to meet a specific deadline, so the lock-on technology was developed as a way of letting them get around that. If you root around the bear bones of the Sonic 3 game, you can find remnants of the levels that were eventually featured in Sonic & Knuckles.
As for the game itself... I'll admit that not all of the S&K levels were perfect, but there were some real crackers as well. The Flying Battery, Lava Reef, Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg zones were all, in my opinion, great levels, and the final Doomsday boss, with it's three stages, is a suitably epic finale. Things like that are why Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of my favourite games.
Sonic 2006 was just plain awful. If people haven't played it, then I suggest you watch the Let's Play video playthrough. You really do feel for those guys - it's just horrible. Terrible dialogue, rubbish controls, flawed game mechanics, poorly designed levels, shiver-inducing plot... there's almost no redeeming features about it whatsoever. No amount of extra development time could have saved it from being a disaster.
As for Sonic Unleashed... I'm not sure which version you played, but I'm guessing it was the PS360 version. If it was, you should give the WiiS2 one a try - it's definitely the better version, mostly because Dimps (who developed the DS Sonic Rush games you hold in such high regard) helped out with the game's design. Forgetting the God of War-rip-off Wolf-hog sections (which are also better ton the WiiS2 version), the Sonic levels harken back to an era when the character was all about speed, just running through a level without getting caught up in scenery or whacking into a wall due to awkward camera angles. Once you've run through a level once or twice and learned the general layout, it can be really relaxing just cruising through it again, drifting around corners and chaining together combos as you bounce off enemies and glide along rails.
If Sonic Team can stop developing extra characters and different gameplay systems and just focus on the day levels from SU, then I really do think that they can produce some cracking games. I think it's probably good thing that they're taking a break from proper Sonic titles for the time being through - it'll give them time to refine and get back to what made Sonic games really great. I hope.
You didn't mention the other Wii titles - Sonic and the Secret Rings & Sonic and the Black Knight. Have you tried those? If so, what did you think?
Sonic's a heartbreaker. The best of them are really on the god-tier of platform games, but once Sega realized they could put out crap and it would still sell they've been forcing underbaked games out before they're ready.
Sonic 1: Timeless classic, completely unreal in the time it was released
Sonic 2: The ultimate speed platformer. More action, breakneck pace.
Sonic 3: Broader level design, more exploration, but still amazing flow.
Sonic & Knuckles: Sonic 3 outtakes. Underwhelming and the first time Sonic went downhill.
Sonic Adventure: Pretty damned epic. I don't know if the adventure elements worked except as filler, but this did what I thought was impossible: Make Sonic really work in 3D
Sonic Adventure 2: Even better than the first SA, pure action, no filler. Even if the Tails and Knux levels aren't as good, they're still entertaining.
After this we run into problems fast...
Sonic Heroes: Garbage. It just copies and pastes level segments over and over for boring, unrefined, dragged out gameplay. Sonic's backbone has always been the level design, and it's just not here.
Shadow the Hedgehog: Not as terrible as people assume, but not a true Sonic game by any stretch. Ok.
Sonic 2006: Had a TON of potential, solid gameplay mechanics, a good approach, but it was forced out WAY before it was ready with glaring technical flaws and a general lack of polish.
Sonic Unleashed: Boils the Sonic game down to a parody of itself. Mindless speed without any depth or flow. Feels more like F-Zero than Sonic. The Werehog parts are terrible.
Sonic Rush: This and its sequel are actually surprisingly excellent. The level design is refined enough that time attack challenges are really fun and the new gameplay systems make sense. Shame the look and sound isn't quite there.
lets see here,
I agree when you say a game is good, but...
sonic and knuckles was fun, and you could play as someone that wasnt sonic or tails.
Although I agree sonic heros got repetitive A LOT, it was still a good game
Shadow the hedgehog, I agree pretty well too, it was a good game, but it wasnt sonic, sonic is go through the level and shadow had guns kill blah blah blah activate blah blah etc... but sega themselves said in a nintendo power interview(no clue what issue) it wasnt supposed to be a sonic game, they wanted to see if it could make it as a series on it's own.
Sonic 06 never found one glitch, the only thing I hated was when silver was a boss(that is neraly impossible for me) and eggman's design(thank god they changed it back to normal)
Sonic Unleased, I think the exact oppisite, I loved the wearhog levels(sega said he WILL be back for more and the speed challenges were fine too.
There's my review.
Sonic & Knuckles is, literally, a part of Sonic 3. If you combine the two, you have what Sonic Team meant Sonic 3 to be in its entirety.
Sonic 3 with an extra character and more paths? Sure, I guess, but I'd still rather play as Sonic than Knuckles, so I don't see what it really adds. The problem is that the actual levels in S&K range from average to bad. They should have called that game "F*** Sandopolis Zone, Let's Play Something Else."
There's something to be said for some restraint and cutting the fluff. Sonic 3 was a better game BECAUSE of what was cut, not despite it.
Terrible dialogue, rubbish controls, flawed game mechanics, poorly designed levels, shiver-inducing plot... there's almost no redeeming features about it whatsoever. No amount of extra development time could have saved it from being a disaster.
See, I don't think the game mechanics were flawed at all. It got back to Sonic basics without the gimmicks, and Shadow and Silver, while different than Sonic, were both action-oriented characters who didn't need to collect crap or fish or whatever. They were still racing for the goal. The plot/dialog has been terrible ever since they first started trying to give Sonic a plot, but that doesn't matter.
As for Sonic Unleashed... I'm not sure which version you played, but I'm guessing it was the PS360 version. If it was, you should give the WiiS2 one a try - it's definitely the better version, mostly because Dimps (who developed the DS Sonic Rush games you hold in such high regard) helped out with the game's design.
I've played both, and I feel they both suffer from that "Hold up the whole level, go a million miles an hour" thing that was never really what playing Sonic was all about.
I mean sure, in Sonic Adventure if you played well you could blaze through the whole level, but finding subtle shortcuts and keeping your momentum took some skill and problem solving, whereas in Unleashed it really became a trite excercise in timing. It didn't feel like a true platform game to me in either form (And yes, the Wii version is the better of the two).
the Sonic levels harken back to an era when the character was all about speed, just running through a level
But the game didn't do that for you. This exaggerated idea of "what Sonic was all about" completely ruined Sonic Advance 2. Sonic 2 did it right. Sonic Rush Adventure did it right. Unleashed did not.
I think Sonic really got wrecked when the idea of rolling became unimportant. That idea of momentum was really the revolutionary change that made the first one so special, and in Sonic Adventure 2 they took it out and even though that game was great, it was the start of the decline.
You didn't mention the other Wii titles - Sonic and the Secret Rings & Sonic and the Black Knight. Have you tried those? If so, what did you think?
Sonic and the Secret Rings is pretty alright, but again it's this exaggeration of what Sonic really was, and it feels a bit like a racing game at times. It's better than Unleashed, though.
Haven't played Black Knight. I think that game is where I finally give up on Sega.
Sonic 06 wasn't bad, but I suppose in my eyes it wasn't good either. It was better than their past attempts at Sonic though. Sonic Heroes was annoying because you were controlling 3 characters instead of 1 which got tedious having to switch characters to get past certain things. Also team Chaotix and Team Rose were just awful as teams to play. Shadow The Hedgehog I just really didn't like, wasn't really like a normal Sonic game. It managed to bring the gameplay back to its Adventure days. Managed to enjoy the first 2 levels, shockingly. Yeah the level design was useless, I mean putting a speed boost right before a sharp corner which has no barriers, not clever, and that wasn't just on one level. There was some glaring glitches too, like falling through the floor. The story wasn't very good either, and the ending was so taccy it pretty much negated the entire game.
It showed that Sonic Team had finally realised what the fans wanted, nearly. Which led them onto making Unleashed. Which I found the Sonic levels to be really fun in Unleashed. The werehog levels were rubbish, and unfortunately they out numbered the Sonic levels 3:1. However managing to get the Sonic part of the game right was definitely improvement and shows that they're going in the right direction, finally.
Sonic Adventure still lives as my favourite Sonic game. The original Sonic games were awesome, don't get me wrong. However with Adventure they managed to successfully bring it into 3d, and it was amazing. Although I do admit Big's levels were beyond a pain in the arse. Still remember getting it along with my dreamcast on one birthday. Fun times. Sonic Adventure 2 was good too, although I don't think the levels were as good personally.
Havent had the pleasure of playing the Wii games though. Was waiting till I saw them both cheap. But it seems Wii games take forever to come down in price. Even though the majority of them are garbage. :x
See, I don't think the game mechanics were flawed at all. It got back to Sonic basics without the gimmicks, and Shadow and Silver, while different than Sonic, were both action-oriented characters who didn't need to collect crap or fish or whatever. They were still racing for the goal.
By saying this.... just this.... Every Sonic related post you made in the past & any you will ever make in the future have just become null & void.
Look, I'm not saying it wasn't glitchy, the controls weren't unrefined, or any of that, but if they took the time to tighten it up, the foundation was there. It was getting back to the Sonic Adventure style, which really did work at one point.
I was playing Sonic Advance 2 last night and decided to see what would happen if I just held the right button while pressing jump randomly for an entire level. I finished the level without losing any rings or lives.
Great games but I don't like how you need to finish all the bonus stages to get the 'real' ending. That sucks.
They dont do taht anymore, and when they did, that added to the skill. Now they just make it so you have to beat all the story modes(or in sonic rushes/heros case, you have to beat both story modes AND bonus stages)
Plus, if you don't want the real ending, no ones there to make you play it, you can just consider the endings to be real.
Meh, rather that then when you get games where you have to do annoying specific requirements to get the real ending. Like for example having to talk to a certain person at a certain time on a certain day, and if you don't you miss the ending. There's no way you can know that you have to do that without using a guide or something, it's rather stupid.
I would have to disagree on your first statement, because in my opinion the first two Sonic Adventure games had pretty good storytelling. It wasn't until they replaced the voice actors with 4kids Sonic anime dub that they really started to suck... & hard.
I personally wasn't fond of the way the story was handled in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. I thought both had potential (Shadow's story line was pretty interesting) but I just thought it was dumbed down by the voice acting and the characters in general.
Also the 'talk to the President' bit in SA2 made me cringe:rolleyes:
I think the short movie by Sega Animation Studio demonstrates how i'd prefer to see the story of future Sonic titles handled. See it here:
A simple storyline like Mario's works a lot better I think.
But that's just my opinion and the story isn't exactly Sonic's biggest downfall.
Truth be told they'd be a lot better if all the bugs and glitches were worked out. The most recent 3D Sonic (Sonic The Hedgehog) still wouldn't exactly be up there with the current big hitters but it'd be a lot more enjoyable to play.
It seems strange that a games company like Sega, who've been in the industry for so long, would release their biggest mascot with so many bugs and glitches within their games
I personally wasn't fond of the way the story was handled in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. I thought both had potential (Shadow's story line was pretty interesting) but I just thought it was dumbed down by the voice acting and the characters in general.
Also the 'talk to the President' bit in SA2 made me cringe:rolleyes:
I think the short movie by Sega Animation Studio demonstrates how i'd prefer to see the story of future Sonic titles handled. See it here:
A simple storyline like Mario's works a lot better I think.
But that's just my opinion and the story isn't exactly Sonic's biggest downfall.
Truth be told they'd be a lot better if all the bugs and glitches were worked out. The most recent 3D Sonic (Sonic The Hedgehog) still wouldn't exactly be up there with the current big hitters but it'd be a lot more enjoyable to play.
It seems strange that a games company like Sega, who've been in the industry for so long, would release their biggest mascot with so many bugs and glitches within their games
Oh I dunno about that. Mario's story never changes. Princess peach gets caught by Bowser and you have to go through levels, collecting some kind of stars to unlock rooms, defeating bosses, Bowser Jr and finally Bowser to get Peach back. The point is you don't play Mario for the story, you play it for the gameplay, and the same goes for Sonic. Although Sonic 06's story was annoying beyond belief.
I was playing Sonic Advance 2 last night and decided to see what would happen if I just held the right button while pressing jump randomly for an entire level. I finished the level without losing any rings or lives.
Yeah, Sonic Advance is horrible. It's like a parody of 2D Sonic. People that defend it should be beaten down.
Oh I dunno about that. Mario's story never changes. Princess peach gets caught by Bowser and you have to go through levels, collecting some kind of stars to unlock rooms, defeating bosses, Bowser Jr and finally Bowser to get Peach back. The point is you don't play Mario for the story, you play it for the gameplay, and the same goes for Sonic. Although Sonic 06's story was annoying beyond belief.
More or less what I was trying to get at I'll rephrase.
I think Sonic would benefit a simple storyline much like Mario's. Variety would still be good
No I don't really care for the story of either series. The only difference being is that they're a little too plot focused with Sonic than they are with Mario.
Sonic as a character irritates me as a result where as Mario doesn't. Mario isn't taken too seriously but Sonic's over dramatic plotlines are just a little lame to me.
Basically I think the less plot focused the better. But obviously if the fans like it who am I to argue
Just my small issue with the series. I'd still gladly play a good game of Sonic's in spite of it.
Look, I'm not saying it wasn't glitchy, the controls weren't unrefined, or any of that, but if they took the time to tighten it up, the foundation was there. It was getting back to the Sonic Adventure style, which really did work at one point.
Personally I hated it (saw it way before you posted the link). To each his own I suppose. However, I think that we can all agree that the current voice actors blow. Get back the Sonic Adventure cast.... & fast.
More or less what I was trying to get at I'll rephrase.
I think Sonic would benefit a simple storyline much like Mario's. Variety would still be good
No I don't really care for the story of either series. The only difference being is that they're a little too plot focused with Sonic than they are with Mario.
Sonic as a character irritates me as a result where as Mario doesn't. Mario isn't taken too seriously but Sonic's over dramatic plotlines are just a little lame to me.
Basically I think the less plot focused the better. But obviously if the fans like it who am I to argue
Just my small issue with the series. I'd still gladly play a good game of Sonic's in spite of it.
I can see what you mean if you're talking about Sonic '06 because that story was stupid. A Princess and Sonic? Hell no. I've not played enough of Sonic Unleashed to see any more of the story. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 stayed fine to me with the story, there wasn't overly long cut scenes and you got straight back to the action after it. I prefer a slight change in the story, I mean Mario is boring now with the story, you already know whats going to happen before it happens, so it's nice that they're atleast trying to make it a bit different in Sonic.
However it does depend on what you want in a game. I'm quite a big RPG player, so as you can gather I'm big on stories. Consequently, I prefer having changes in the story. It adds that little bit extra to the new experience. That said though, I have mates who don't care for RPG's and are big on things that don't really have a story. I agree there shouldn't be alot of story though, as it isn't an RPG, which is centered around the story, it's a game based on gameplay instead.
PS. Hated that Werehog film personally. Also I agree that they should get back the SA cast, so much better. That Sonic X crew sounds so... Childish and annoying. Hard to explain.
I can see what you mean if you're talking about Sonic '06 because that story was stupid. A Princess and Sonic? Hell no. I've not played enough of Sonic Unleashed to see any more of the story. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 stayed fine to me with the story, there wasn't overly long cut scenes and you got straight back to the action after it. I prefer a slight change in the story, I mean Mario is boring now with the story, you already know whats going to happen before it happens, so it's nice that they're atleast trying to make it a bit different in Sonic.
Oh S***!!! The 16 bit wars are heating up again
In all seriousness though. I think Mario is slipping too. I'm sure I will get flamed all to hell for this, but I despised Mario Galaxy. It just ruined Mario for me. On the other hand, I absolutely loved Mario Sunshine, because I felt that it added a brand new dimension to the series but kept with the key formula. Here is to Sunshine 2 & Adventure 3.
I agree there shouldn't be alot of story though, as it isn't an RPG, which is centered around the story, it's a game based on gameplay instead.
This.
Don't get me wrong i'm not praising Mario for its storyline. It has gone beyond more than repetitive and i'd welcome a little variety.
It's just as you said, I personally think Sonic would be better off purely focused on the gameplay, with just a small back story to get the ball rolling similar to the Mario series.
More like Sonic 1 - Knuckles, that worked for me.
However it does depend on what you want in a game. I'm quite a big RPG player, so as you can gather I'm big on stories. Consequently, I prefer having changes in the story. It adds that little bit extra to the new experience.
I'm a big RPG and adventure game fan too I'm not suggesting all games should focus purely on gameplay, just that I personally think Sonic doesn't work too well in plot heavy games.
If you guys enjoy it, that's great! Probably the vast majority of fans of the series agree with you. But it's just a little too cheesy and cringe inducing for me, that includes SA 1 + 2.
Though I did enjoy playing them both even though I disliked the storyline's.
Can't change the way I feel about it i'm afraid guys I would love to enjoy the stories told in Sonic's universe.
PS. Hated that Werehog film personally. Also I agree that they should get back the SA cast, so much better. That Sonic X crew sounds so... Childish and annoying. Hard to explain.
Ah well, to each their own. I thought it was rather charming I wasn't suggesting that's the way it should be rather the direction i'd prefer to see the series take.
In all seriousness though. I think Mario is slipping too. I'm sure I will get flamed all to hell for this, but I despised Mario Galaxy. It just ruined Mario for me. On the other hand, I absolutely loved Mario Sunshine, because I felt that it added a brand new dimension to the series but kept with the key formula. Here is to Sunshine 2 & Adventure 3.
I think I was also one of the few who was a little underwhelmed seeing Mario Galaxy 2 announced.
I wouldn't say Mario's slipping as such but the gameplay's starting to become just as repetitive as his storyline's
But anyway nice chatting with you lads! I'm all Sonic'd out so i'm off
Don't get me wrong i'm not praising Mario for its storyline. It has gone beyond more than repetitive and i'd welcome a little variety.
It's just as you said, I personally think Sonic would be better off purely focused on the gameplay, with just a small back story to get the ball rolling similar to the Mario series.
More like Sonic 1 - Knuckles, that worked for me.
I agree with you on this, but most people these days demand that games have stories, something I don't always think is best. Not every game needs to play like an interactive novel. A plot along the lines of Sonic 3 & Knuckles is more then enough for any Sonic game.
I think the biggest problem with Sonic games though is that, until recently, they didn't tend to think about decent plots, instead just choosing to add more characters. They thankfully seem to have gotten out of that phase though, bless the maker.
I'm a big RPG and adventure game fan too I'm not suggesting all games should focus purely on gameplay, just that I personally think Sonic doesn't work too well in plot heavy games.
If you guys enjoy it, that's great! Probably the vast majority of fans of the series agree with you. But it's just a little too cheesy and cringe inducing for me, that includes SA 1 + 2.
Though I did enjoy playing them both even though I disliked the storyline's.
Can't change the way I feel about it i'm afraid guys I would love to enjoy the stories told in Sonic's universe.
I had problems with Sonic Adventure 1 & 2's gameplay because it could be so inconsistent at times, though I did enjoy Sonic/Shadow's levels (well, when the camera behaved, anyway). The other characters... not really. And don't even get me started on Big the Cat. If I want to go fishing, I'll play a sodding fishing game.
I didn't enjoy the plots of those games wither. They were confusing, didn't really fit with the previous Sonic games and just got in the way of the gameplay. I suppose you could say the same of any 3D Sonic game really, but since SA1/2 were the first ones, we weren't used to that sort of thing. We've pretty much accepted that Sonic games have lousy plots by now, and that's just terrible.
Ah well, to each their own. I thought it was rather charming I wasn't suggesting that's the way it should be rather the direction i'd prefer to see the series take.
I liked it as well, especially the lack of dialogue! Not sure I'd like to see future games set in haunted houses and featuring love-sick ghosts as major characters though
I think I was also one of the few who was a little underwhelmed seeing Mario Galaxy 2 announced.
I wouldn't say Mario's slipping as such but the gameplay's starting to become just as repetitive as his storyline's
Super Mario Galaxy 2 is basically an expansion pack that they're going the Blue Shift route with (releasing stand-alone and not really changing all that much gameplay-wise). The phrase 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' doesn't always apply. If they charge around $30 for it though, I can see this doing extremely well though.
On a side note: watch those apostrophes. Whenever you use one, you're essentially combining two words into one, but you need to pay attention to which words you're compressing.
On a side note: watch those apostrophes. Whenever you use one, you're essentially combining two words into one, but you need to pay attention to which words you're compressing.
Hahaha! Usually if you see a "Last edited by Purple Tentacle" beneath one of my posts it's specifically due to some of you strict markers on these forums
I do actually understand their proper usage and could easily go back and rectify my mistakes.
It's more of a bad habit i've picked up, having not written a lot in the last few years
I'll be sure to make that extra effort in the future
I have to be honest here. and dont kill me, but i have never played more than one level of the first sonic game. after that i sort of felt i hand my finger on the pulse of the series "run really fast get rings hit the loopdeloop and finish the level". it wasn't a cooker for me.
did i miss something? because visually they were great! just seemed to lack game play diversity.
Hahaha! Usually if you see a "Last edited by Purple Tentacle" beneath one of my posts it's specifically due to some of you strict markers on these forums
I do actually understand their proper usage and could easily go back and rectify my mistakes.
It's more of a bad habit i've picked up, having not written a lot in the last few years
I'll be sure to make that extra effort in the future
Cool. Sorry if I seemed a bit schoolteacher-ish, I'm just a stickler for grammar. It's why I got so annoyed at how The Escapist treated my review.
No it's cool I don't mind a nudge now and again for self improvement. Forgive my ignorance (i've only taken a quick look) but why were you annoyed at the way The Escapist treated your review?
All I see are glowing remarks about it, unless i'm not looking in the right place? Was such a sound review as well you even got me downloading the game!
Anyway, just so i'm not completely off topic (then i'm done debating about Sonic):
I liked it as well, especially the lack of dialogue! Not sure I'd like to see future games set in haunted houses and featuring love-sick ghosts as major characters though
No me either But you understand what I mean. I think the way the short movie was handled all ages can appreciate it on some level, where as the games feel a little too kiddy friendly for me to really enjoy their storylines.
Oh the main reason I didn't like it, was because that video seemed too childish. Reminded me of those Sonic X episodes, which were very childish. Also I'm not a fan of the werehog, or that Chip.
I agree with the main problem of Sonic is all the annoying characters they add. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles weren't bad. Amy wasn't that annoying either. Shadow's levels weren't that different from Sonics, so his levels were fun too. Sonic Heroes was when it became really annoying. Team Chaotix and Team Rose were awful to play as. Not to mention in any team it was annoying to have to control all 3 characters. Adding Silver in Sonic '06 was stupid too(Although the main problem with that game was poor level design and bugs really). Sonic Unleashed was a step in the right direction, however they still introduced Werehog and Chip, both of which annoyed me to death.
As you can see, Espio, Vector and Charmy were all three already conceived. Unfortunately Mighty at some point got the boot apparently, as he never appeared in any Sonic game again.
As you can see, Espio, Vector and Charmy were all three already conceived. Unfortunately Mighty at some point got the boot apparently, as he never appeared in any Sonic game again.
Mighty was also in the Sonic Arcade Game if I remember correctly.
Forgive my ignorance (i've only taken a quick look) but why were you annoyed at the way The Escapist treated your review?
All I see are glowing remarks about it, unless i'm not looking in the right place? Was such a sound review as well you even got me downloading the game!
I never actually posted here about it, but the review published by the Escapist is an edited version of the one I submitted. Unfortunately their editing has not only disrupted the flow of several paragraphs, but there's also a few typos as well. Here's not the place to discuss it though - I've started a new thread detailing the whole sorry mess.
And so this post also manages to stay on topic... Mighty the Armadillo originated in the arcade game 'SegaSonic the Hedgehog' before appearing in Knuckles Chaotix. He never appeared in another Sonic title, having apparently been given the boot from Team Chaotix.
As you can see, Espio, Vector and Charmy were all three already conceived. Unfortunately Mighty at some point got the boot apparently, as he never appeared in any Sonic game again.
Yes, I already know that, was in a game on Sega32x. I never said either Team Chaotix or Team Rose were new to the series, If you look what I said, I said added, I didn't say they were new anywhere. In Team Rose, Amy Rose is old, Cream appeared in Sonic Advance and Sonic X and Big the Cat was in Sonic Adventure. Neither team is new. The point I was getting across was they shouldn't have been added, Shadow, Rouge and Eggman as a team shouldn't have been added either really. Although their levels werent quite as annoying as Team Rose or Team Chaotix.
The whole selling point of the game, being able to control teams of three, wasn't exactly the best idea that Sonic Team had ever had. Then they went and implemented it so badly... The whole game was a bit of a mess, really.
Comments
You didn't read the old comics. Shame on you.
Yes I did, I started from issue 3... had to really go hunting to get hold of them in the UK. She was fine in the comics but she annoys me a little bit on screen.
This. QFT.
which of these did you mean?
# "Quoted For Truth" - an acronym commonly used on internet forums.
# "Quit Fucking Trying/Talking" - also an acronym used on internet forums, mostly gaming.
In most forums, QFT is the first meaning in the vast majority of cases. There's plenty of other anagrams for the second meaning.
Also, the comics were awesome. I remember when the Death Egg saga comics and the Endgame Series first came out. My brother was a huge follower of them. So I got to read most of them without having to pay anything
Sonic 1: Timeless classic, completely unreal in the time it was released
Sonic 2: The ultimate speed platformer. More action, breakneck pace.
Sonic 3: Broader level design, more exploration, but still amazing flow.
Sonic & Knuckles: Sonic 3 outtakes. Underwhelming and the first time Sonic went downhill.
Sonic Adventure: Pretty damned epic. I don't know if the adventure elements worked except as filler, but this did what I thought was impossible: Make Sonic really work in 3D
Sonic Adventure 2: Even better than the first SA, pure action, no filler. Even if the Tails and Knux levels aren't as good, they're still entertaining.
After this we run into problems fast...
Sonic Heroes: Garbage. It just copies and pastes level segments over and over for boring, unrefined, dragged out gameplay. Sonic's backbone has always been the level design, and it's just not here.
Shadow the Hedgehog: Not as terrible as people assume, but not a true Sonic game by any stretch. Ok.
Sonic 2006: Had a TON of potential, solid gameplay mechanics, a good approach, but it was forced out WAY before it was ready with glaring technical flaws and a general lack of polish.
Sonic Unleashed: Boils the Sonic game down to a parody of itself. Mindless speed without any depth or flow. Feels more like F-Zero than Sonic. The Werehog parts are terrible.
Sonic Rush: This and its sequel are actually surprisingly excellent. The level design is refined enough that time attack challenges are really fun and the new gameplay systems make sense. Shame the look and sound isn't quite there.
Sonic & Knuckles is, literally, a part of Sonic 3. If you combine the two, you have what Sonic Team meant Sonic 3 to be in its entirety. Unfortunately, they had to meet a specific deadline, so the lock-on technology was developed as a way of letting them get around that. If you root around the bear bones of the Sonic 3 game, you can find remnants of the levels that were eventually featured in Sonic & Knuckles.
As for the game itself... I'll admit that not all of the S&K levels were perfect, but there were some real crackers as well. The Flying Battery, Lava Reef, Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg zones were all, in my opinion, great levels, and the final Doomsday boss, with it's three stages, is a suitably epic finale. Things like that are why Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of my favourite games.
Sonic 2006 was just plain awful. If people haven't played it, then I suggest you watch the Let's Play video playthrough. You really do feel for those guys - it's just horrible. Terrible dialogue, rubbish controls, flawed game mechanics, poorly designed levels, shiver-inducing plot... there's almost no redeeming features about it whatsoever. No amount of extra development time could have saved it from being a disaster.
As for Sonic Unleashed... I'm not sure which version you played, but I'm guessing it was the PS360 version. If it was, you should give the WiiS2 one a try - it's definitely the better version, mostly because Dimps (who developed the DS Sonic Rush games you hold in such high regard) helped out with the game's design. Forgetting the God of War-rip-off Wolf-hog sections (which are also better ton the WiiS2 version), the Sonic levels harken back to an era when the character was all about speed, just running through a level without getting caught up in scenery or whacking into a wall due to awkward camera angles. Once you've run through a level once or twice and learned the general layout, it can be really relaxing just cruising through it again, drifting around corners and chaining together combos as you bounce off enemies and glide along rails.
If Sonic Team can stop developing extra characters and different gameplay systems and just focus on the day levels from SU, then I really do think that they can produce some cracking games. I think it's probably good thing that they're taking a break from proper Sonic titles for the time being through - it'll give them time to refine and get back to what made Sonic games really great. I hope.
You didn't mention the other Wii titles - Sonic and the Secret Rings & Sonic and the Black Knight. Have you tried those? If so, what did you think?
lets see here,
I agree when you say a game is good, but...
sonic and knuckles was fun, and you could play as someone that wasnt sonic or tails.
Although I agree sonic heros got repetitive A LOT, it was still a good game
Shadow the hedgehog, I agree pretty well too, it was a good game, but it wasnt sonic, sonic is go through the level and shadow had guns kill blah blah blah activate blah blah etc... but sega themselves said in a nintendo power interview(no clue what issue) it wasnt supposed to be a sonic game, they wanted to see if it could make it as a series on it's own.
Sonic 06 never found one glitch, the only thing I hated was when silver was a boss(that is neraly impossible for me) and eggman's design(thank god they changed it back to normal)
Sonic Unleased, I think the exact oppisite, I loved the wearhog levels(sega said he WILL be back for more and the speed challenges were fine too.
There's my review.
There's something to be said for some restraint and cutting the fluff. Sonic 3 was a better game BECAUSE of what was cut, not despite it.
See, I don't think the game mechanics were flawed at all. It got back to Sonic basics without the gimmicks, and Shadow and Silver, while different than Sonic, were both action-oriented characters who didn't need to collect crap or fish or whatever. They were still racing for the goal. The plot/dialog has been terrible ever since they first started trying to give Sonic a plot, but that doesn't matter.
I've played both, and I feel they both suffer from that "Hold up the whole level, go a million miles an hour" thing that was never really what playing Sonic was all about.
I mean sure, in Sonic Adventure if you played well you could blaze through the whole level, but finding subtle shortcuts and keeping your momentum took some skill and problem solving, whereas in Unleashed it really became a trite excercise in timing. It didn't feel like a true platform game to me in either form (And yes, the Wii version is the better of the two).
But the game didn't do that for you. This exaggerated idea of "what Sonic was all about" completely ruined Sonic Advance 2. Sonic 2 did it right. Sonic Rush Adventure did it right. Unleashed did not.
I think Sonic really got wrecked when the idea of rolling became unimportant. That idea of momentum was really the revolutionary change that made the first one so special, and in Sonic Adventure 2 they took it out and even though that game was great, it was the start of the decline.
Sonic and the Secret Rings is pretty alright, but again it's this exaggeration of what Sonic really was, and it feels a bit like a racing game at times. It's better than Unleashed, though.
Haven't played Black Knight. I think that game is where I finally give up on Sega.
It showed that Sonic Team had finally realised what the fans wanted, nearly. Which led them onto making Unleashed. Which I found the Sonic levels to be really fun in Unleashed. The werehog levels were rubbish, and unfortunately they out numbered the Sonic levels 3:1. However managing to get the Sonic part of the game right was definitely improvement and shows that they're going in the right direction, finally.
Sonic Adventure still lives as my favourite Sonic game. The original Sonic games were awesome, don't get me wrong. However with Adventure they managed to successfully bring it into 3d, and it was amazing. Although I do admit Big's levels were beyond a pain in the arse. Still remember getting it along with my dreamcast on one birthday. Fun times.
Havent had the pleasure of playing the Wii games though. Was waiting till I saw them both cheap. But it seems Wii games take forever to come down in price. Even though the majority of them are garbage. :x
By saying this.... just this.... Every Sonic related post you made in the past & any you will ever make in the future have just become null & void.
They dont do taht anymore, and when they did, that added to the skill. Now they just make it so you have to beat all the story modes(or in sonic rushes/heros case, you have to beat both story modes AND bonus stages)
Plus, if you don't want the real ending, no ones there to make you play it, you can just consider the endings to be real.
Also the 'talk to the President' bit in SA2 made me cringe:rolleyes:
I think the short movie by Sega Animation Studio demonstrates how i'd prefer to see the story of future Sonic titles handled. See it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7QOdvxWAac
A simple storyline like Mario's works a lot better I think.
But that's just my opinion and the story isn't exactly Sonic's biggest downfall.
Truth be told they'd be a lot better if all the bugs and glitches were worked out. The most recent 3D Sonic (Sonic The Hedgehog) still wouldn't exactly be up there with the current big hitters but it'd be a lot more enjoyable to play.
It seems strange that a games company like Sega, who've been in the industry for so long, would release their biggest mascot with so many bugs and glitches within their games
I've never liked Sonic, and this is from a guy who only owned a Genesis during that generation and didn't get an SNES until after I got my N64.
I wish this would actually happen in a Mario game, it would make the story awesome.
Yeah, Sonic Advance is horrible. It's like a parody of 2D Sonic. People that defend it should be beaten down.
I think Sonic would benefit a simple storyline much like Mario's. Variety would still be good
No I don't really care for the story of either series. The only difference being is that they're a little too plot focused with Sonic than they are with Mario.
Sonic as a character irritates me as a result where as Mario doesn't. Mario isn't taken too seriously but Sonic's over dramatic plotlines are just a little lame to me.
Basically I think the less plot focused the better. But obviously if the fans like it who am I to argue
Just my small issue with the series. I'd still gladly play a good game of Sonic's in spite of it.
Null & void
Personally I hated it (saw it way before you posted the link). To each his own I suppose. However, I think that we can all agree that the current voice actors blow. Get back the Sonic Adventure cast.... & fast.
However it does depend on what you want in a game. I'm quite a big RPG player, so as you can gather I'm big on stories. Consequently, I prefer having changes in the story. It adds that little bit extra to the new experience. That said though, I have mates who don't care for RPG's and are big on things that don't really have a story. I agree there shouldn't be alot of story though, as it isn't an RPG, which is centered around the story, it's a game based on gameplay instead.
PS. Hated that Werehog film personally. Also I agree that they should get back the SA cast, so much better. That Sonic X crew sounds so... Childish and annoying. Hard to explain.
Oh S***!!! The 16 bit wars are heating up again
In all seriousness though. I think Mario is slipping too. I'm sure I will get flamed all to hell for this, but I despised Mario Galaxy. It just ruined Mario for me. On the other hand, I absolutely loved Mario Sunshine, because I felt that it added a brand new dimension to the series but kept with the key formula. Here is to Sunshine 2 & Adventure 3.
This.
Don't get me wrong i'm not praising Mario for its storyline. It has gone beyond more than repetitive and i'd welcome a little variety.
It's just as you said, I personally think Sonic would be better off purely focused on the gameplay, with just a small back story to get the ball rolling similar to the Mario series.
More like Sonic 1 - Knuckles, that worked for me.
I'm a big RPG and adventure game fan too
If you guys enjoy it, that's great!
Though I did enjoy playing them both even though I disliked the storyline's.
Can't change the way I feel about it i'm afraid guys
Ah well, to each their own. I thought it was rather charming
I think I was also one of the few who was a little underwhelmed seeing Mario Galaxy 2 announced.
I wouldn't say Mario's slipping as such but the gameplay's starting to become just as repetitive as his storyline's
But anyway nice chatting with you lads! I'm all Sonic'd out so i'm off
I think the biggest problem with Sonic games though is that, until recently, they didn't tend to think about decent plots, instead just choosing to add more characters. They thankfully seem to have gotten out of that phase though, bless the maker. I had problems with Sonic Adventure 1 & 2's gameplay because it could be so inconsistent at times, though I did enjoy Sonic/Shadow's levels (well, when the camera behaved, anyway). The other characters... not really. And don't even get me started on Big the Cat. If I want to go fishing, I'll play a sodding fishing game.
I didn't enjoy the plots of those games wither. They were confusing, didn't really fit with the previous Sonic games and just got in the way of the gameplay. I suppose you could say the same of any 3D Sonic game really, but since SA1/2 were the first ones, we weren't used to that sort of thing. We've pretty much accepted that Sonic games have lousy plots by now, and that's just terrible. I liked it as well, especially the lack of dialogue! Not sure I'd like to see future games set in haunted houses and featuring love-sick ghosts as major characters though
On a side note: watch those apostrophes. Whenever you use one, you're essentially combining two words into one, but you need to pay attention to which words you're compressing. Aw, we've barely even started
I do actually understand their proper usage and could easily go back and rectify my mistakes.
It's more of a bad habit i've picked up, having not written a lot in the last few years
I'll be sure to make that extra effort in the future
did i miss something? because visually they were great! just seemed to lack game play diversity.
I do'nt understand the problem.
All I see are glowing remarks about it, unless i'm not looking in the right place?
Anyway, just so i'm not completely off topic (then i'm done debating about Sonic):
No me either
Teehee
I agree with the main problem of Sonic is all the annoying characters they add. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles weren't bad. Amy wasn't that annoying either. Shadow's levels weren't that different from Sonics, so his levels were fun too. Sonic Heroes was when it became really annoying. Team Chaotix and Team Rose were awful to play as. Not to mention in any team it was annoying to have to control all 3 characters. Adding Silver in Sonic '06 was stupid too(Although the main problem with that game was poor level design and bugs really). Sonic Unleashed was a step in the right direction, however they still introduced Werehog and Chip, both of which annoyed me to death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckles%27_Chaotix
As you can see, Espio, Vector and Charmy were all three already conceived. Unfortunately Mighty at some point got the boot apparently, as he never appeared in any Sonic game again.
Mighty was also in the Sonic Arcade Game if I remember correctly.
And so this post also manages to stay on topic... Mighty the Armadillo originated in the arcade game 'SegaSonic the Hedgehog' before appearing in Knuckles Chaotix. He never appeared in another Sonic title, having apparently been given the boot from Team Chaotix.