Accidentally getting pregnant then getting a abortion isnt the same as using abortion as a preferred birth control, like a doctor offering a implant and refusing it because "I prefer abortion" she didn't choose abortion as a form of birth control it is always the last resort.
I know someone that chooses to use chemotherapy over sunscreen, they were to stupid to use sunscreen got cancer then had surgery- what this sounds like
Why not? I'm not fake lmao. I know someone who was too stupid to not use protection and she got pregnant. As soon as she found out she was pregnant, she got an abortion.
But she didn't bother to use birth control in the first place, therefore she was irresponsible and then got an abortion. Very different from your analogy.
Accidentally getting pregnant then getting a abortion isnt the same as using abortion as a preferred birth control, like a doctor offering … morea implant and refusing it because "I prefer abortion" she didn't choose abortion as a form of birth control it is always the last resort.
I know someone that chooses to use chemotherapy over sunscreen, they were to stupid to use sunscreen got cancer then had surgery- what this sounds like
You know, mushrooms, plants, bacteria - they're all living things too. And technically above the embryo in the "alive" scale. Do you think yourself a murderer when you pick up mushrooms? Or when you use antibiotics to purge the parasites that infected you? No. So drop from the moral high ground and educate yourself.
"Pro-"choice" is the most hypocritical position I've ever heard of. It's easy to be pro-"choice" because your mother "chose" not to murder y… moreou, which she had a legal right to do as long as you were in her belly. Let's get rid of this "choice" crap and admit that abortion is legalized murder of a baby."
Amen. Aborting a baby is the same as murder.
Buddy, where did you learn that? A fetus doesn't become a baby till the last month of pregnancy, of course abortion is only permitted way way before you could talk about something that resembles a baby. You think the woman won't notice she's pregnant until the last month of pregnancy? Yeah, no.
They have shown that the fetuses feel pain, the way they abort babies is by ripping their limbs apart and sucking them up with a vacuum, which is proven with several studies.
But as you said (wisely)
Nobody is going to change anyones mind, and it's not my business what anyone does, but I am pro-life.
And if her baby is the product of rape, while it is tragic that she went through that; something no person-period should ever have to go thr… moreough, that still doesn't make having an abortion right.
12-Year-Old Girl Has Abortion
Prosecutors say they will wait for a 12-year-old girl allegedly impregnated by her 17-year-old brother to recover from an abortion before seeking to bring charges against him.
Mexican rape victim, 13, denied access to abortion
Health officials in northern Mexico have refused to authorize an abortion for a 13-year-old girl who was raped by a family acquaintance after a judge downgraded the crime to a charge of sexual coercion. Since May 2015, Gire has represented 14 rape victims who were denied access to a safe abortion, including a 10-year-old girl in the state of Tabasco. In this latest case, the attack was reported to police just hours after it took place at the girl’s home on 2 May. She was not offered em… [view original content]
You are killing a human, how would you feel if your mom had you ripped up limb by limb and then sucked up in a vacuum?
Humans are more advanced then mushrooms, plants, and bacteria. Do mushroom feel pain? Do bacteria have emotions? No. They are not that advanced, of course it's different. Tell me when a mushroom made a way for itself to fly to the moon.
You know, mushrooms, plants, bacteria - they're all living things too. And technically above the embryo in the "alive" scale. Do you think y… moreourself a murderer when you pick up mushrooms? Or when you use antibiotics to purge the parasites that infected you? No. So drop from the moral high ground and educate yourself.
I am educated so don't tell me I'm not. Those things you just stated are necessary for for our survival. The medicine kills parasites that in turn are killing us. The mushrooms are just part of our diet. A human embryo is a whole other life. You're missing my point here.
You know, mushrooms, plants, bacteria - they're all living things too. And technically above the embryo in the "alive" scale. Do you think y… moreourself a murderer when you pick up mushrooms? Or when you use antibiotics to purge the parasites that infected you? No. So drop from the moral high ground and educate yourself.
You are killing a human, how would you feel if your mom had you ripped up limb by limb and then sucked up in a vacuum?
Humans are more adv… moreanced then mushrooms, plants, and bacteria. Do mushroom feel pain? Do bacteria have emotions? No. They are not that advanced, of course it's different. Tell me when a mushroom made a way for itself to fly to the moon.
I tried to show some unbiased evidence, read this if you don't agree.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672893/
https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
And what's your point? That by performing abortions the human race will go extinct? Well, no. Embryo is a whole other life? But so are mushrooms. So are bacteria. They're all living things. But there's nothing wrong with "killing" them. You want a more practical example? Okay, imagine a 16 year old girl that found out she's pregnant. She wasn't raped or anything but she's not exactly in a position to raise a child when she herself is still a child. She's not rich, her family struggles and the father of her future child ran away. She's faced with a choice. Terminate the pregnancy before the embryo becomes a living thing or the life of raising a baby in an extremely young age, failing school because of said baby, being thrown out on the street and eventually giving the baby to a care shelter (in the best scenario) or having to suffer through its death which eventually leads to her suicide, (worst scenario) or a ruined life of drugs, regret and misery. (I'm not saying that happens in every such case, but it's the most probable outcome) If you're telling me it's still worse to abort the pregnancy in its early stages then I have nothing more to say to you.
I am educated so don't tell me I'm not. Those things you just stated are necessary for for our survival. The medicine kills parasites that i… moren turn are killing us. The mushrooms are just part of our diet. A human embryo is a whole other life. You're missing my point here.
She could schedule an adoption so she doesn't have to go through dropping out of school, stop cherry picking situations. Or put her child with social services
Adoption rates are climbing, especially now that gay couples want kids as well.
And what's your point? That by performing abortions the human race will go extinct? Well, no. Embryo is a whole other life? But so are mushr… moreooms. So are bacteria. They're all living things. But there's nothing wrong with "killing" them. You want a more practical example? Okay, imagine a 16 year old girl that found out she's pregnant. She wasn't raped or anything but she's not exactly in a position to raise a child when she herself is still a child. She's not rich, her family struggles and the father of her future child ran away. She's faced with a choice. Terminate the pregnancy before the embryo becomes a living thing or the life of raising a baby in an extremely young age, failing school because of said baby, being thrown out on the street and eventually giving the baby to a care shelter (in the best scenario) or having to suffer through its death which eventually leads to her suicide, (worst scenario) or a ruined life of drugs, regret and … [view original content]
She could schedule an adoption so she doesn't have to go through dropping out of school, stop cherry picking situations. Or put her child wi… moreth social services
Adoption rates are climbing, especially now that gay couples want kids as well.
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/media/press/2013/adoption-rate-increases-for-children-in-foster-care
It's not the same because it's not even a baby, it's an embryo. It doesn't have thoughts or feelings, its gender isn't even chosen yet. It can't survive out of the womb as it is barely developed, so it's not the same as murder. I'd rather protect the life and well being of the mother than an embryo.
"Pro-"choice" is the most hypocritical position I've ever heard of. It's easy to be pro-"choice" because your mother "chose" not to murder y… moreou, which she had a legal right to do as long as you were in her belly. Let's get rid of this "choice" crap and admit that abortion is legalized murder of a baby."
Amen. Aborting a baby is the same as murder.
Except the fact that she'd still be pregnant, she'd still have to go through doctors appointments, pain, and ultimately childbirth, possibly endangering her life. Not to mention that there are so many children that are placed up for adoption already, yet another child that is brought into this world that practically no one wants. Just because the rates are supposedly climbing doesn't mean that every child is going to get adopted.
She could schedule an adoption so she doesn't have to go through dropping out of school, stop cherry picking situations. Or put her child wi… moreth social services
Adoption rates are climbing, especially now that gay couples want kids as well.
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/media/press/2013/adoption-rate-increases-for-children-in-foster-care
I'll answer this because you aren't being obnoxious like some others on this thread (on both sides to be fair). I'll admit I'm not the biggest expert on the subject, I doubt anyone on this thread is, but from what I understand a fetus doesn't experience pain until around the 20 week mark as the nerves won't have developed enough until then. I feel like most would probably have gotten an abortion way before that point.
Also these studies are very politically slanted as doctors of both sides will tell you different things so it just comes down to who you believe and you'll probably agree with whoever agrees with you.
They have shown that the fetuses feel pain, the way they abort babies is by ripping their limbs apart and sucking them up with a vacuum, whi… morech is proven with several studies.
But as you said (wisely)
Nobody is going to change anyones mind, and it's not my business what anyone does, but I am pro-life.
I suppose it comes to the point where some think it would be better to not have a life with suffering and not exist at all.
I can understand your reasons. I guess we all do think differently.
Except the fact that she'd still be pregnant, she'd still have to go through doctors appointments, pain, and ultimately childbirth, possibly… more endangering her life. Not to mention that there are so many children that are placed up for adoption already, yet another child that is brought into this world that practically no one wants. Just because the rates are supposedly climbing doesn't mean that every child is going to get adopted.
Lmao are you even reading what I'm writing. The woman finds out she's pregnant as soon as the embryo starts growing and feeding off of whatever she eats. It's still killing a life.
Buddy, where did you learn that? A fetus doesn't become a baby till the last month of pregnancy, of course abortion is only permitted way wa… morey before you could talk about something that resembles a baby. You think the woman won't notice she's pregnant until the last month of pregnancy? Yeah, no.
No need to be rude. Also you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying. The belly isn't the only way to determine if your pregnant. All I'm saying is that the woman won't find out that she's pregnant until the embryo is already alive.
Also, congrats on not being able to debate a political topic without pulling out insults and swears.
If men gave birth you'd be able to get abortions at the post office. If you're not a female, you have no opinion on this. I lol at all of the old white dudes in the US who believe they own this issue.
Lmao are you even reading what I'm writing. The woman finds out she's pregnant as soon as the embryo starts growing and feeding off of whatever she eats. It's still killing a life.
I'm referring to the living embryo inside of the womb. The woman won't be able to officially tell if she is pregnant until the embryo has a full on heartbeat and is developing from the mother.
Then females who have never been pregnant have no opinion either. Sorry, but I don't buy this "men can't talk about abortion" rubbish. I've never seen a pro-life person oppose abortion because they want to control women. They oppose it because they see it as legalised murder and I can understand that viewpoint. It's not about trying to control or oppressed women, it's about actively pushing back against that is, in their view, morally wrong.
If men gave birth you'd be able to get abortions at the post office. If you're not a female, you have no opinion on this. I lol at all of the old white dudes in the US who believe they own this issue.
Then females who have never been pregnant have no opinion either. Sorry, but I don't buy this "men can't talk about abortion" rubbish. I've … morenever seen a pro-life person oppose abortion because they want to control women. They oppose it because they see it as legalised murder and I can understand that viewpoint. It's not about trying to control or oppressed women, it's about actively pushing back against that is, in their view, morally wrong.
No...It's really about controlling women..
Additionally, I've noticed a lot of right learning people in The US are against abortion for no other reason than left leaning people support it.
I don't think it should be a legal requirement to have the father sign off (especially if it is the result of rape or incest) but I think you're a grade A scumbag if you don't tell them.
Abort everything, you go girls, ur bodies yeehah
Actually rather be honest then say popular answer
I'm not for murdering babies with a… morebortion only in extreme circumstances like rape
I also think the father should have a say in it as if I ever got girl pregnant found out I was father and she got it easily aborted without even asking my opinion or me knowing that would destroy me.
Saying this just my opinion wouldn't force it on anyone or ever talk about it unless someone asked my opinion directly
I'm referring to the living embryo inside of the womb. The woman won't be able to officially tell if she is pregnant until the embryo has a full on heartbeat and is developing from the mother.
I'd personally never have an abortion. I'd have the baby, raise it & give it as much love as humanely possible. However, I believe every… more woman has a right to make that decision for herself. A woman should always have 100% say over her own body at all times. I'm definitely more pro-choice on the matter of abortion.
Buddy, where did you learn that? A fetus doesn't become a baby till the last month of pregnancy, of course abortion is only permitted way wa… morey before you could talk about something that resembles a baby. You think the woman won't notice she's pregnant until the last month of pregnancy? Yeah, no.
The same argument could be made for a conventionally known murderer.
"Is it your choice if they murder someone? No, it's the murderer's choice, and who are you to tell them what's right and what's wrong? Are you the arbiter of what's morally just in this world?"
I support it. A lot of people here are saying that it's wrong, but honestly, is it your choice? No, it's the pregnant person's choice, and w… moreho are you to tell them what's right and what's wrong? Are you the arbiter of what's morally just in this world?
If men gave birth you'd be able to get abortions at the post office. If you're not a female, you have no opinion on this. I lol at all of the old white dudes in the US who believe they own this issue.
. . . that's not what we're talking about.
Hypothetically, say you have a newborn baby that is born brain dead, but in only 2 minutes … morebrain activity will assuredly start up and he will continue to grow and develop like any other newborn. Would it be acceptable to kill him?
I think the father has a right to know unless there's a good reason why he shouldn't (such as being abusive or if the child was conceived through rape), because at the end of the day, it's his child too and the mother should at least listen to how he feels about the situation first.
The problem with the father part is that we're not the ones going through months of pain and discomfort to bring the child into this world. … more Midnight runs for pickles and ice cream isn't exactly on par. That said, I do agree that it would be preferable to have a say. I would want one, but I don't think we should "have to" have one.
Not sure how else to explain this. In this hypothetical:
you have a newborn baby that is born brain dead, but in only 2 minutes brain activity will assuredly start up and he will continue to grow and develop like any other newborn. Would it be acceptable to kill him?
That is not an accurate analogy. You wouldn't kill a baby just because it appeared to be stillborn for a couple minutes. It's honestly quite absurd to compare a healthy baby to an embryo. It's not your decision, it's the pregnant person's, and it's silly to compare an embryo to a functional human.
Not sure how else to explain this. In this hypothetical:
you have a newborn baby that is born brain dead, but in only 2 minutes brain … moreactivity will assuredly start up and he will continue to grow and develop like any other newborn. Would it be acceptable to kill him?
is it or is it not okay to kill the newborn?
Comments
Accidentally getting pregnant then getting a abortion isnt the same as using abortion as a preferred birth control, like a doctor offering a implant and refusing it because "I prefer abortion" she didn't choose abortion as a form of birth control it is always the last resort.
I know someone that chooses to use chemotherapy over sunscreen, they were to stupid to use sunscreen got cancer then had surgery- what this sounds like
But she didn't bother to use birth control in the first place, therefore she was irresponsible and then got an abortion. Very different from your analogy.
You know, mushrooms, plants, bacteria - they're all living things too. And technically above the embryo in the "alive" scale. Do you think yourself a murderer when you pick up mushrooms? Or when you use antibiotics to purge the parasites that infected you? No. So drop from the moral high ground and educate yourself.
[removed]
Buddy, where did you learn that? A fetus doesn't become a baby till the last month of pregnancy, of course abortion is only permitted way way before you could talk about something that resembles a baby. You think the woman won't notice she's pregnant until the last month of pregnancy? Yeah, no.
Projecting yourself onto other people. Cute!
They have shown that the fetuses feel pain, the way they abort babies is by ripping their limbs apart and sucking them up with a vacuum, which is proven with several studies.
But as you said (wisely)
Nobody is going to change anyones mind, and it's not my business what anyone does, but I am pro-life.
THIS
I agree, except if it threatens the life of the mother
I'm pro life, but I agree sometimes in cases of rape or incest, or if it threatens the life of the mother, maybe it is not meant to be.
You are killing a human, how would you feel if your mom had you ripped up limb by limb and then sucked up in a vacuum?
Humans are more advanced then mushrooms, plants, and bacteria. Do mushroom feel pain? Do bacteria have emotions? No. They are not that advanced, of course it's different. Tell me when a mushroom made a way for itself to fly to the moon.
I tried to show some unbiased evidence, read this if you don't agree.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672893/
https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
I am educated so don't tell me I'm not. Those things you just stated are necessary for for our survival. The medicine kills parasites that in turn are killing us. The mushrooms are just part of our diet. A human embryo is a whole other life. You're missing my point here.
An embryo doesn't have limbs. It cannot feel anything. It's not a human. A mushroom doesn't have limbs. It cannot feel anything. It's not human.
And what's your point? That by performing abortions the human race will go extinct? Well, no. Embryo is a whole other life? But so are mushrooms. So are bacteria. They're all living things. But there's nothing wrong with "killing" them. You want a more practical example? Okay, imagine a 16 year old girl that found out she's pregnant. She wasn't raped or anything but she's not exactly in a position to raise a child when she herself is still a child. She's not rich, her family struggles and the father of her future child ran away. She's faced with a choice. Terminate the pregnancy before the embryo becomes a living thing or the life of raising a baby in an extremely young age, failing school because of said baby, being thrown out on the street and eventually giving the baby to a care shelter (in the best scenario) or having to suffer through its death which eventually leads to her suicide, (worst scenario) or a ruined life of drugs, regret and misery. (I'm not saying that happens in every such case, but it's the most probable outcome) If you're telling me it's still worse to abort the pregnancy in its early stages then I have nothing more to say to you.
I'm not the one claiming that abortion is murder or that prisons should house their population in tents.
She could schedule an adoption so she doesn't have to go through dropping out of school, stop cherry picking situations. Or put her child with social services
Adoption rates are climbing, especially now that gay couples want kids as well.
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/media/press/2013/adoption-rate-increases-for-children-in-foster-care
You can stop linking the articles as well. I'm not reading them anyway.
It's not the same because it's not even a baby, it's an embryo. It doesn't have thoughts or feelings, its gender isn't even chosen yet. It can't survive out of the womb as it is barely developed, so it's not the same as murder. I'd rather protect the life and well being of the mother than an embryo.
Except the fact that she'd still be pregnant, she'd still have to go through doctors appointments, pain, and ultimately childbirth, possibly endangering her life. Not to mention that there are so many children that are placed up for adoption already, yet another child that is brought into this world that practically no one wants. Just because the rates are supposedly climbing doesn't mean that every child is going to get adopted.
[removed]
I'll answer this because you aren't being obnoxious like some others on this thread (on both sides to be fair). I'll admit I'm not the biggest expert on the subject, I doubt anyone on this thread is, but from what I understand a fetus doesn't experience pain until around the 20 week mark as the nerves won't have developed enough until then. I feel like most would probably have gotten an abortion way before that point.
Also these studies are very politically slanted as doctors of both sides will tell you different things so it just comes down to who you believe and you'll probably agree with whoever agrees with you.
I suppose it comes to the point where some think it would be better to not have a life with suffering and not exist at all.
I can understand your reasons. I guess we all do think differently.
Lmao are you even reading what I'm writing. The woman finds out she's pregnant as soon as the embryo starts growing and feeding off of whatever she eats. It's still killing a life.
No need to be rude. Also you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying. The belly isn't the only way to determine if your pregnant. All I'm saying is that the woman won't find out that she's pregnant until the embryo is already alive.
Also, congrats on not being able to debate a political topic without pulling out insults and swears.
If men gave birth you'd be able to get abortions at the post office. If you're not a female, you have no opinion on this. I lol at all of the old white dudes in the US who believe they own this issue.
Which one?
I'm referring to the living embryo inside of the womb. The woman won't be able to officially tell if she is pregnant until the embryo has a full on heartbeat and is developing from the mother.
Then females who have never been pregnant have no opinion either. Sorry, but I don't buy this "men can't talk about abortion" rubbish. I've never seen a pro-life person oppose abortion because they want to control women. They oppose it because they see it as legalised murder and I can understand that viewpoint. It's not about trying to control or oppressed women, it's about actively pushing back against that is, in their view, morally wrong.
No...It's really about controlling women..
Additionally, I've noticed a lot of right learning people in The US are against abortion for no other reason than left leaning people support it.
Have you ever listened to a pro-life person? The contention is almost always that abortion is equivalent to murder.
And your second point makes no sense. Who would go to such lengths to oppose something unless they actually believed it was wrong.
I don't think it should be a legal requirement to have the father sign off (especially if it is the result of rape or incest) but I think you're a grade A scumbag if you don't tell them.
Yeah, that's why we have doctors who can tell if she's pregnant very early on.
It's not just the woman's body in question, though, is it? There is a completely new human inside her body.
By what definition of "baby"? Many children are born far before a month before they should be born. Are they not considered "babies"?
The same argument could be made for a conventionally known murderer.
"Is it your choice if they murder someone? No, it's the murderer's choice, and who are you to tell them what's right and what's wrong? Are you the arbiter of what's morally just in this world?"
But it's not just your body in question. It's quite literally, biologically not.
What a terrible argument.
Interesting moral dilemma that should challenge every person to answer honestly? Na, da patriarchy.
"stillbirth is the birth of a baby who is born without any signs of life at or after 24 weeks of pregnancy."
I think the father has a right to know unless there's a good reason why he shouldn't (such as being abusive or if the child was conceived through rape), because at the end of the day, it's his child too and the mother should at least listen to how he feels about the situation first.
Not sure how else to explain this. In this hypothetical:
is it or is it not okay to kill the newborn?
That is not an accurate analogy. You wouldn't kill a baby just because it appeared to be stillborn for a couple minutes. It's honestly quite absurd to compare a healthy baby to an embryo. It's not your decision, it's the pregnant person's, and it's silly to compare an embryo to a functional human.