Yes it is. People that don't care about their enemies having humanity do exist. Did you forget that he also didn't trust Henry and Sam when they first met?
It's been 25 fucking years, trust issues shouldn't walk away even when you live in a peaceful place during an apocalypse. In fact, Bill is the one who told Joel and Ellie that people are way worse than infected because they are unpredictable. Abby never even thought about getting rescued by Joel. She is a cold bitch and does it worse than Joel ever did to her father.
I mean, in one situation there's a person who's clearly not injured slowly approaching them.
On the other there's a person who's about to… more get killed, who Joel had completely at his mercy, and a person that he ultimately chose to save. Then, considering there were a million infected surrounding them, they jump at the first opportunity to get shelter and numbers on their side.
They're two widely different situation with distinct nuances to them. It can't all be dumbed down to "joel no trust people". This game has problems, I just don't think how Joel dies is near the biggest of them.
You misunderstood me. I'm not against the general idea of killing off Joel. I always figured that if they ever made a sequel to The Last of Us, he probably wasn't gonna survive to the end of it. That's not my issue. It's the way he died and the fact that most of the story hinges on his really contrived and nonsensical demise that irks me. @MetallicaRules provided a great example for why this story element doesn't really work, so I won't repeat it.
I haven't watched the video so I'm not sure what argument you're refuting, but, unless I misunderstood and you're just completely opposed to… more the idea of killing him in the first place (which is a valid position to take mind you), what do you mean he is reduced to a plot device after his death? I mean, what is a character supposed to be after their deaths if not a plot device? They literally can't be a character anymore outside flashbacks, and any character development can't happen because, well, they're dead!
And, at least in my opinion, they kept Joel very true to his very three-dimensional Part 1 self during the flashbacks. He kept on protecting and caring for Ellie while at the same time lying to her face over and over, and, even when she finally discovered the truth, he still made no apologies for any of it, as the Joel we knew would.
I'm not saying Joel's trust issues walked away or even that he stopped being careful. That's not even what the events leading up to his death show. They were in a very high stakes situation where they had to make decisions fast. Turns out going to a nearby shelter both Tommy and Joel were familiar with is what they chose, and is it really that unresonable that they'd do that accompanied by a person who they believed owed them her life? Should Joel have predicted that this, out of the thousands of people it could be, is someone whose whole group has a very personal vendetta against him? Even after said group deals with the infected for them and shows not to be hostile at all. Would that be realistic?
Yes it is. People that don't care about their enemies having humanity do exist. Did you forget that he also didn't trust Henry and Sam when … morethey first met?
It's been 25 fucking years, trust issues shouldn't walk away even when you live in a peaceful place during an apocalypse. In fact, Bill is the one who told Joel and Ellie that people are way worse than infected because they are unpredictable. Abby never even thought about getting rescued by Joel. She is a cold bitch and does it worse than Joel ever did to her father.
Even if they didn't have a choice, Tommy shouldn't have given Abby their names. I was expecting Joel to call out his pissy little brother but he didn't for some reason. The fact that it took Joel a lot of time to think that her group seemed suspicious makes me shake my head like an alarmed clicker.
I'm not saying Joel's trust issues walked away or even that he stopped being careful. That's not even what the events leading up to his deat… moreh show. They were in a very high stakes situation where they had to make decisions fast. Turns out going to a nearby shelter both Tommy and Joel were familiar with is what they chose, and is it really that unresonable that they'd do that accompanied by a person who they believed owed them her life? Should Joel have predicted that this, out of the thousands of people it could be, is someone whose whole group has a very personal vendetta against him? Even after said group deals with the infected for them and shows not to be hostile at all. Would that be realistic?
I wouldn’t really say that 7 years is accurate, considering a lot of that time goes into mo-cap, animating, advertising, hiring new actors, creating new assets, stuff like that. More accurately they would have had about 3 years tops. Didn’t it take red dead 2 about 5 years just for motion capture alone?
Naughty Dog is not Ubisoft or Capcom. They are one of those studios who prefer focusing on quality over quantity. They always preferred work… moreing on one project instead of 2 or more. The only time they did that was with Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us. They don't release games yearly because they want each of their games to be successful and enjoyable for everyone.
Plus, they had 7 FUCKING YEARS to think about a good continuation to the first game. Why the hell Druckmann chose to make this story that would result a huge backlash to their studio is beyond me.
Are we just gonna ignore the fact that ND lied to us about Joel throught all the trailers we have seen? They obviously used him as a bait for the fans to buy this game. And I fell for it.
Why should he give fake names? When has he ever done that? Joel thought his decision to kill the Fireflies at SLC and save Ellie was self-contained and it wouldn't come back to bite him in the ass. It makes sense that he wouldn't give fake names.
Even if they didn't have a choice, Tommy shouldn't have given Abby their names. I was expecting Joel to call out his pissy little brother bu… moret he didn't for some reason. The fact that it took Joel a lot of time to think that her group seemed suspicious makes me shake my head like an alarmed clicker.
It is strange that they made Troy record lines for the trailers, but unless they just don't show anything meaningful from the story, they kind of had to do the 'Dina dies and Joel helps Ellie on her quest' narrative. It would've been too obvious otherwise.
Are we just gonna ignore the fact that ND lied to us about Joel throught all the trailers we have seen? They obviously used him as a bait for the fans to buy this game. And I fell for it.
Even if they weren't fucking Fireflies, they might have been enemies Joel has encountered 20 years ago. How many terrible excuses can you come up with to defend this garbage writing?
It is strange that they made Troy record lines for the trailers, but unless they just don't show anything meaningful from the story, they kind of had to do the 'Dina dies and Joel helps Ellie on her quest' narrative. It would've been too obvious otherwise.
Doesn't excuse that they flipped off everyone who wanted more of Joel and Ellie in this game. Abby has more screentime than Joel did in this game. That's like having Peter Parker die in the first half of Spider-Man PS4 and you play as Miles Morales for the rest of the game.
Why should he give fake names? When has he ever done that? Joel thought his decision to kill the Fireflies at SLC and save Ellie was self-contained and it wouldn't come back to bite him in the ass. It makes sense that he wouldn't give fake names.
Even if they weren't fucking Fireflies, they might have been enemies Joel has encountered 20 years ago.
Yeah ok you win.
Doesn't excuse that they flipped off everyone who wanted more of Joel and Ellie in this game. Abby has more screentime than Joel did in this game.
You do get more Joel and Ellie in this game. It's the whole point of the story and themes. But they should've explained that the PGW 2017 girl is going to be a new playable character.
Even if they weren't fucking Fireflies, they might have been enemies Joel has encountered 20 years ago. How many terrible excuses can you co… moreme up with to defend this garbage writing?
It is strange that they made Troy record lines for the trailers, but unless they just don't show anything meaningful from the story, they kind of had to do the 'Dina dies and Joel helps Ellie on her quest' narrative. It would've been too obvious otherwise.
Doesn't excuse that they flipped off everyone who wanted more of Joel and Ellie in this game. Abby has more screentime than Joel did in this game. That's like having Peter Parker die in the first half of Spider-Man PS4 and you play as Miles Morales for the rest of the game.
The guitar is the most polished mechanic of this game. Someone's covering mostly full songs with it!
Johnny Cash - Hurt
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
When I played, I didn't see any moment that Abby ever felt remorse or showed regret in her decision to kill Joel. If I'm wrong and you can point me to evidence that she did, then I'll take it back, but I'm not seeing any moment that would seemingly lead me to that conclusion. While she was tortured at the hands of that group at the end of the game, the reason I say she got off scot-free was because that didn't come as a direct consequence of her actions against Joel. Owen had already presented her with the idea of going to Santa Barbara, and she was considering it before Ellie killed him. It just feels like most of the stuff that does happen to her comes off as more indirect consequences, rather than direct consequences. Meanwhile, with Ellie, it feels incredibly unbalanced in how she gets treated and how the theme of revenge is all consuming and dangerous does more damage to her than it does Abby. It practically feels like the game is obsessed with making Ellie suffer. And when the game puts you in a boss fight against Ellie while playing as Abby, it's hard not to think about how the game is trying to portray Ellie as a sort of villain, or at the very least an antagonist.
What TLOU2 did feels like the equivalent of keeping Lee alive at the end of S1 (wasn't bit, but still ends up rescuing Clem and the two are … moreable to survive together for a while), Telltale confirms S2, markets it with Lee and Clem, saying it's going to be huge for both of their characters and relationship, only to kill Lee off at the hands of Michelle at the rest stop. Then the rest of his scenes that were teased and hinted at are nothing but flashbacks and dream sequences that actually work to develop their bond.
But it's not like that because they're different series with different tones. Not saying you can't kill off characters any other way in the world of TLOU, but this fits for Joel. And ANF did nothing for the story, Jane and Kenny only died because they had no place in the story of S3, they didn't push characters or plot forward in any meaningful way. TLOU 2 respects Joel and Ellie and their relationship, while Clem is a pitifu… [view original content]
Can't believe Kojima lied to me almost 20 years ago about Snake being the protagonist in MGS2. Obviously he used him as bait for MGS fans to buy the game
Are we just gonna ignore the fact that ND lied to us about Joel throught all the trailers we have seen? They obviously used him as a bait for the fans to buy this game. And I fell for it.
Can't believe Kojima lied to me almost 20 years ago about Snake being the protagonist in MGS2. Obviously he used him as bait for MGS fans to buy the game
Might not have been for 2 but he did originally want to reward Snake's heroic efforts throughout the saga in 4 by having him trialled and executed by the government, along with Otacon.
That's like having Peter Parker die in the first half of Spider-Man PS4 and you play as Miles Morales for the rest of the game.
Oh Marvel will definitely do that cause why not. I mean hopefully they give Peter Parker a better way of story and sacrifice for the people instead of what Naughty Dog did here. I mean I ain't looking forward to seeing Miles Morales..I mean he is a okay character. But, Spiderman will always be Peter Parker. Sorry not sorry. Maybe more like if a symbol than just the hero. Miles Morales being Spiderman won't help me like the character. Maybe they can make him likeable? But,just Indiana Jones. If Indiana Jones is gone or done? Then no one can feel his shoes again or recreate the feel of emotion and love for that character.
Like this game isn't good on pacing or story or writing. Again graphics and gameplay are the only things good. Characters suck,Story sucks and plot sucks. Ppl waited 7 YEARS for this.
Even if they weren't fucking Fireflies, they might have been enemies Joel has encountered 20 years ago. How many terrible excuses can you co… moreme up with to defend this garbage writing?
It is strange that they made Troy record lines for the trailers, but unless they just don't show anything meaningful from the story, they kind of had to do the 'Dina dies and Joel helps Ellie on her quest' narrative. It would've been too obvious otherwise.
Doesn't excuse that they flipped off everyone who wanted more of Joel and Ellie in this game. Abby has more screentime than Joel did in this game. That's like having Peter Parker die in the first half of Spider-Man PS4 and you play as Miles Morales for the rest of the game.
Again, when were Tommy and Joel supposed to have time to agree on names or think that far ahead? Infected were literally on top of them, they didn't have a moment to go "hey, just for good measure, you're Jerry and I'm Steve if anyone asks!", they had to act fast and communicate properly while fending off the infected otherwise they'd die. The thing is, the group wasn't acting suspicious. They didn't know who Joel was and when they did find out Abby was already shooting his leg off. Joel couldn't be suspicious of people who were not acting suspicious.
I know it sucks when a character we like dies, we want them to be invincible. The thing is The Last of Us never presented its setting as anything other than "brutally realistic", and the reality is everyone is fallible, and that includes main characters like Joel too, he just couldn't always be 10 steps ahead of everyone he found.
Even if they didn't have a choice, Tommy shouldn't have given Abby their names. I was expecting Joel to call out his pissy little brother bu… moret he didn't for some reason. The fact that it took Joel a lot of time to think that her group seemed suspicious makes me shake my head like an alarmed clicker.
I feel embarrassed that you use assumptions instead of making research. Miles Morales game is confirmed to be an expansion to the original game, not a true sequel. It's obvious that they do that before the real sequel because a major idea like Miles being a PC cannot fit in the next game when they set up Venom and Green Goblin at the end of the original game. Plus, Insomniac is the one in charge of Spider-Man PS4 universe, not Marvel. They never adapted any comic storyline into the game, it's clearly their own universe. They can do whatever they want. Did you forget that this game was made by true Spider-Man fans?
Miles Morales being Spiderman won't help me like the character.
Then I guess you never seen Spider-Man Into The Spider-Verse. That movie is the best Spider-Man film close to the first Raimi ones. And Miles Morales is the main protagonist of that film.
That's like having Peter Parker die in the first half of Spider-Man PS4 and you play as Miles Morales for the rest of the game.
Oh M… morearvel will definitely do that cause why not. I mean hopefully they give Peter Parker a better way of story and sacrifice for the people instead of what Naughty Dog did here. I mean I ain't looking forward to seeing Miles Morales..I mean he is a okay character. But, Spiderman will always be Peter Parker. Sorry not sorry. Maybe more like if a symbol than just the hero. Miles Morales being Spiderman won't help me like the character. Maybe they can make him likeable? But,just Indiana Jones. If Indiana Jones is gone or done? Then no one can feel his shoes again or recreate the feel of emotion and love for that character.
Like this game isn't good on pacing or story or writing. Again graphics and gameplay are the only things good. Characters suck,Story sucks and plot sucks. Ppl waited 7 YEARS for this.
Joel couldn't be suspicious of people who were not acting suspicious.
Then why did he ask "You guys act like you've heard of us or something"? It's obvious that everyone was looking at him with alarmed faces.
I know it sucks when a character we like dies, we want them to be invincible.
I don't care if he died. All I care is the way his death was handled. I did not expect him to survive in the sequel, but nobody expected him to die like John Connor in Terminator Dark Fate. The way it was done was poorly written and fanfictiony. Killed with a golf club? Are you fucking serious? There IS no one in a zombie apocalypse who used a golf club as a signature weapon to kill zombies or torture people.
Don't you even dare bring up Frank West who uses almost anything to kill zombies. Dead Rising franchise was never meant to be taken very seriously.
Again, when were Tommy and Joel supposed to have time to agree on names or think that far ahead? Infected were literally on top of them, the… morey didn't have a moment to go "hey, just for good measure, you're Jerry and I'm Steve if anyone asks!", they had to act fast and communicate properly while fending off the infected otherwise they'd die. The thing is, the group wasn't acting suspicious. They didn't know who Joel was and when they did find out Abby was already shooting his leg off. Joel couldn't be suspicious of people who were not acting suspicious.
I know it sucks when a character we like dies, we want them to be invincible. The thing is The Last of Us never presented its setting as anything other than "brutally realistic", and the reality is everyone is fallible, and that includes main characters like Joel too, he just couldn't always be 10 steps ahead of everyone he found.
Can't believe Naughty Dog managed to top the hotel basement from Part 1 as the creepiest section of this series.
FUCK YOU hospital basement. FUCK YOU wall-stalkers and ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN FUCK YOU to this Uber Clicker/Bloater/Shamber abomination.
How the hell do you beat this guy without turning down the difficulty, because I'm having one hard and terrified time.
@AronDracula Killed with a golf club? Are you fucking serious? There IS no one in a zombie apocalypse who used a golf club as a signature weapon to kill zombies or torture people.
Dude, your issue is what weapon managed to kill Joel? Really?
It might be a strange choice of weapon, but was there much else they could have used? They were holed up in some rich guy's mansion, of course there'd be golf clubs lying around. It makes sense.
Sure, it less dignified than a quick shotgun blast to the face, but did you really want her to rip out a pipe or break off a table leg and beat him to death with it? Does it make a difference??
I get disliking the pacing of the prologue or having Joel's death come pretty early into the game with very little moments between him and Ellie, but the manner in which he dies seems irrelevant to the character.
I don't remember ever seeing those, I can believe it from what I remember of the game.
But yeah, after that original teaser trailer for 2, it was only a matter of time.
Btw, anyone else remember those trailers with completely different characters running around or killing people--anything come of those?
Then why did he ask "You guys act like you've heard of us or something"? It's obvious that everyone was looking at him with alarmed faces.
Did you... read my post at all?
They didn't know who Joel was and when they did find out Abby was already shooting his leg off.
Joel meets the group. The group acts normal, friendly and helpful because they still don’t know who Joel is, so it doesn’t raise any red flags for him. Joel reveals his name to the rest of the group, and only then do they act suspicious, for a whole 3 seconds before Abby shoots his leg. You see, Joel didn’t have time to act on their sudden and very short lived suspicious behavior because Abby had already found out who he was ages ago when they were fighting infected.
At this point you’re even nitpicking that it was done with a golf club. It wouldn’t be used in an apocalypse because... you say so?
Joel couldn't be suspicious of people who were not acting suspicious.
Then why did he ask "You guys act like you've heard of us or s… moreomething"? It's obvious that everyone was looking at him with alarmed faces.
I know it sucks when a character we like dies, we want them to be invincible.
I don't care if he died. All I care is the way his death was handled. I did not expect him to survive in the sequel, but nobody expected him to die like John Connor in Terminator Dark Fate. The way it was done was poorly written and fanfictiony. Killed with a golf club? Are you fucking serious? There IS no one in a zombie apocalypse who used a golf club as a signature weapon to kill zombies or torture people.
Don't you even dare bring up Frank West who uses almost anything to kill zombies. Dead Rising franchise was never meant to be taken very seriously.
She doesn't need to feel remorse for killing Joel though, that was my point. And that still doesn't mean she gets off scot-free, Owen dying is the equivalent of Dina dying. The feeling I got was that the writers punished both characters heavily, but Abby, Lev and Ellie are all still alive at the end. All Abby has is Lev and maybe the new Fireflies (although I wish Owen would talk more about how the Fireflies suck, instead he also wants to meet a new group of terrorists, which seems odd because he knows that the WLF are bad and he's tired off it. It's not like the Fireflies are good either, sequel-bait I guess) while Ellie remembers how to draw Joel's face, finds closure and is able to forgive and understand that everything he did was out of love for her. PTSD goes too.
Joel meets the group. The group acts normal, friendly and helpful because they still don’t know who Joel is, so it doesn’t raise any red flags for him. Joel reveals his name to the rest of the group, and only then do they act suspicious, for a whole 3 seconds before Abby shoots his leg. You see, Joel didn’t have time to act on their sudden and very short lived suspicious behavior because Abby had already found out who he was ages ago when they were fighting infected.
Still doesn't change the fact that Joel and his brother revealed their names to strangers. I don't care if they were living in a peaceful place for years. Joel mentioned in the first game that he has made a lot of enemies for the past 20 years. Even if they weren't fireflies, they could have also been the hunters from the Pittsburg city or David's group who came to avenge their friends. The fact that Joel does the opposite of what Ellie did when she met David makes me think Neil Druckmann didn't play the first game during the development of the sequel.
At this point you’re even nitpicking that it was done with a golf club. It wouldn’t be used in an apocalypse because... you say so?
Because it's the most cartoonish way to kill a beloved character like Joel. Might as well be part of an episode of Family Guy. Not to mention, there are a LOT of memes surrounding that situation.
Then why did he ask "You guys act like you've heard of us or something"? It's obvious that everyone was looking at him with alarmed faces.
… more
Did you... read my post at all?
They didn't know who Joel was and when they did find out Abby was already shooting his leg off.
Joel meets the group. The group acts normal, friendly and helpful because they still don’t know who Joel is, so it doesn’t raise any red flags for him. Joel reveals his name to the rest of the group, and only then do they act suspicious, for a whole 3 seconds before Abby shoots his leg. You see, Joel didn’t have time to act on their sudden and very short lived suspicious behavior because Abby had already found out who he was ages ago when they were fighting infected.
At this point you’re even nitpicking that it was done with a golf club. It wouldn’t be used in an apocalypse because... you say so?
Dude, your issue is what weapon managed to kill Joel? Really?
If ND wanted to make this game as "realistic" as possible, they could have easily had Abby use a bat, a wooden leg, a pipe, a sledgehammer etc. like what anyone would use in apocalypse. But a golf club? This sounds like a kid's writing. It makes it less devastating. Joel's death will never go down as one of the saddest deaths of great characters in video games, along with Lee Everett and Arthur Morgan. Not to mention, the media made a lot of memes out of it.
Also, Abby and her friends come from a large group. How can they go out without any melee weapons.
But the theme of the game was that revenge is all-consuming, obsessing over it will only hurt you and can cause more harm than good. And while it may be hard, even if the other person did something terrible, it is still possible, and better, to forgive. We saw that through Ellie, she becomes determined to get revenge for what Abby did to Joel, but ultimately decides to spare her in the end. We see how the deaths of Abby’s friends impact and leave her traumatized, and how, after letting Abby go, we have a flashback to her last conversation with Joel where she admits to wanting to try and mend their broken relationship and gets that closure you mentioned. That’s fine, I have problems with it’s execution in several areas, but I get it and what they’re going for. But where is that for Abby? If this was the theme of the game, why is it that Abby gets to have her revenge for what Joel did to her father, but Ellie is constantly punished for it? It makes the theme become very muddy because of this. So yeah, if this was going to be the theme of your game, having Abby show remorse over what she did would probably be the route to go, otherwise it makes it seem like Ellie is getting unnecessarily punished, while Abby gets her revenge and is fine.
As dumb as Joel's death is, the fact that Abby uses a golf club as a melee weapon is not that unbelievable and is hardly the biggest problem with that scene.
Dude, your issue is what weapon managed to kill Joel? Really?
If ND wanted to make this game as "realistic" as possible, they could … morehave easily had Abby use a bat, a wooden leg, a pipe, a sledgehammer etc. like what anyone would use in apocalypse. But a golf club? This sounds like a kid's writing. It makes it less devastating. Joel's death will never go down as one of the saddest deaths of great characters in video games, along with Lee Everett and Arthur Morgan. Not to mention, the media made a lot of memes out of it.
Also, Abby and her friends come from a large group. How can they go out without any melee weapons.
Critics don't mean anything to me anymore. The Last of Us 2 is a divisive game and why they consider it a masterpiece is beyond me. The problem isn't just the story, it's also the fact that this game is soo long and repetitive. Barely does anything new for the gameplay,
Not that anyone cares, but I beat that big Infected boss this afternoon. I was too freaked out about it last night that I needed to take a break and turn the game off. (I kid you not, I ended up having a nightmare about it last night. I ended up waking up at 5am, and I couldn't calm myself to sleep for an hour.)
(apologies for the awkward commentary. I had a headset plugged in and talking to myself was the only way for me to keep calm.)
But I did it, killed him, I'm proud of it, and I don't think I'll be going through that chapter again in future playthroughs.
Comments
Yes it is. People that don't care about their enemies having humanity do exist. Did you forget that he also didn't trust Henry and Sam when they first met?
It's been 25 fucking years, trust issues shouldn't walk away even when you live in a peaceful place during an apocalypse. In fact, Bill is the one who told Joel and Ellie that people are way worse than infected because they are unpredictable. Abby never even thought about getting rescued by Joel. She is a cold bitch and does it worse than Joel ever did to her father.
You misunderstood me. I'm not against the general idea of killing off Joel. I always figured that if they ever made a sequel to The Last of Us, he probably wasn't gonna survive to the end of it. That's not my issue. It's the way he died and the fact that most of the story hinges on his really contrived and nonsensical demise that irks me. @MetallicaRules provided a great example for why this story element doesn't really work, so I won't repeat it.
I'm not saying Joel's trust issues walked away or even that he stopped being careful. That's not even what the events leading up to his death show. They were in a very high stakes situation where they had to make decisions fast. Turns out going to a nearby shelter both Tommy and Joel were familiar with is what they chose, and is it really that unresonable that they'd do that accompanied by a person who they believed owed them her life? Should Joel have predicted that this, out of the thousands of people it could be, is someone whose whole group has a very personal vendetta against him? Even after said group deals with the infected for them and shows not to be hostile at all. Would that be realistic?
Even if they didn't have a choice, Tommy shouldn't have given Abby their names. I was expecting Joel to call out his pissy little brother but he didn't for some reason. The fact that it took Joel a lot of time to think that her group seemed suspicious makes me shake my head like an alarmed clicker.
Guess this is an excuse to go all in...so that's who did it to im, 'uh?
Man, the graphical difference between those thumbnails, in-game or not.
Sums up my thoughts exactly.
I wouldn’t really say that 7 years is accurate, considering a lot of that time goes into mo-cap, animating, advertising, hiring new actors, creating new assets, stuff like that. More accurately they would have had about 3 years tops. Didn’t it take red dead 2 about 5 years just for motion capture alone?
The guitar is the most polished mechanic of this game. Someone's covering mostly full songs with it!
Johnny Cash - Hurt
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
Are we just gonna ignore the fact that ND lied to us about Joel throught all the trailers we have seen? They obviously used him as a bait for the fans to buy this game. And I fell for it.
I never said that as my reasoning. How was I meant to argue my point? Say that it is reasonable when it's not?
Why should he give fake names? When has he ever done that? Joel thought his decision to kill the Fireflies at SLC and save Ellie was self-contained and it wouldn't come back to bite him in the ass. It makes sense that he wouldn't give fake names.
It is strange that they made Troy record lines for the trailers, but unless they just don't show anything meaningful from the story, they kind of had to do the 'Dina dies and Joel helps Ellie on her quest' narrative. It would've been too obvious otherwise.
Even if they weren't fucking Fireflies, they might have been enemies Joel has encountered 20 years ago. How many terrible excuses can you come up with to defend this garbage writing?
Doesn't excuse that they flipped off everyone who wanted more of Joel and Ellie in this game. Abby has more screentime than Joel did in this game. That's like having Peter Parker die in the first half of Spider-Man PS4 and you play as Miles Morales for the rest of the game.
Yeah ok you win.
You do get more Joel and Ellie in this game. It's the whole point of the story and themes. But they should've explained that the PGW 2017 girl is going to be a new playable character.
Alright fine, I'll bring my rating up to a 5/10 because of this. I'll make it a 6/10 if they can try doing Master of Puppets.
When I played, I didn't see any moment that Abby ever felt remorse or showed regret in her decision to kill Joel. If I'm wrong and you can point me to evidence that she did, then I'll take it back, but I'm not seeing any moment that would seemingly lead me to that conclusion. While she was tortured at the hands of that group at the end of the game, the reason I say she got off scot-free was because that didn't come as a direct consequence of her actions against Joel. Owen had already presented her with the idea of going to Santa Barbara, and she was considering it before Ellie killed him. It just feels like most of the stuff that does happen to her comes off as more indirect consequences, rather than direct consequences. Meanwhile, with Ellie, it feels incredibly unbalanced in how she gets treated and how the theme of revenge is all consuming and dangerous does more damage to her than it does Abby. It practically feels like the game is obsessed with making Ellie suffer. And when the game puts you in a boss fight against Ellie while playing as Abby, it's hard not to think about how the game is trying to portray Ellie as a sort of villain, or at the very least an antagonist.
Can't believe Kojima lied to me almost 20 years ago about Snake being the protagonist in MGS2. Obviously he used him as bait for MGS fans to buy the game
Except you didn't argue your reasoning. You just incoherently said a bunch of irrelevant shit and then acted like it got your point across.
But hey, at least Kojima didn't kill him like a dog.
Might not have been for 2 but he did originally want to reward Snake's heroic efforts throughout the saga in 4 by having him trialled and executed by the government, along with Otacon.
Since y'all definitely turning loose, I have to ask if its really that much of a surprise/blow that he bit it?
I expected it to happen in the first game tbh, especially with the way one of the trailers spliced 2 scenes together
Oh Marvel will definitely do that cause why not. I mean hopefully they give Peter Parker a better way of story and sacrifice for the people instead of what Naughty Dog did here. I mean I ain't looking forward to seeing Miles Morales..I mean he is a okay character. But, Spiderman will always be Peter Parker. Sorry not sorry. Maybe more like if a symbol than just the hero. Miles Morales being Spiderman won't help me like the character. Maybe they can make him likeable? But,just Indiana Jones. If Indiana Jones is gone or done? Then no one can feel his shoes again or recreate the feel of emotion and love for that character.
Like this game isn't good on pacing or story or writing. Again graphics and gameplay are the only things good. Characters suck,Story sucks and plot sucks. Ppl waited 7 YEARS for this.
Again, when were Tommy and Joel supposed to have time to agree on names or think that far ahead? Infected were literally on top of them, they didn't have a moment to go "hey, just for good measure, you're Jerry and I'm Steve if anyone asks!", they had to act fast and communicate properly while fending off the infected otherwise they'd die. The thing is, the group wasn't acting suspicious. They didn't know who Joel was and when they did find out Abby was already shooting his leg off. Joel couldn't be suspicious of people who were not acting suspicious.
I know it sucks when a character we like dies, we want them to be invincible. The thing is The Last of Us never presented its setting as anything other than "brutally realistic", and the reality is everyone is fallible, and that includes main characters like Joel too, he just couldn't always be 10 steps ahead of everyone he found.
I feel embarrassed that you use assumptions instead of making research. Miles Morales game is confirmed to be an expansion to the original game, not a true sequel. It's obvious that they do that before the real sequel because a major idea like Miles being a PC cannot fit in the next game when they set up Venom and Green Goblin at the end of the original game. Plus, Insomniac is the one in charge of Spider-Man PS4 universe, not Marvel. They never adapted any comic storyline into the game, it's clearly their own universe. They can do whatever they want. Did you forget that this game was made by true Spider-Man fans?
Then I guess you never seen Spider-Man Into The Spider-Verse. That movie is the best Spider-Man film close to the first Raimi ones. And Miles Morales is the main protagonist of that film.
The Last of Us Part 2, is it worth the $60 bones? Review by TheGamer2323
Then why did he ask "You guys act like you've heard of us or something"? It's obvious that everyone was looking at him with alarmed faces.
I don't care if he died. All I care is the way his death was handled. I did not expect him to survive in the sequel, but nobody expected him to die like John Connor in Terminator Dark Fate. The way it was done was poorly written and fanfictiony. Killed with a golf club? Are you fucking serious? There IS no one in a zombie apocalypse who used a golf club as a signature weapon to kill zombies or torture people.
Don't you even dare bring up Frank West who uses almost anything to kill zombies. Dead Rising franchise was never meant to be taken very seriously.
Can't believe Naughty Dog managed to top the hotel basement from Part 1 as the creepiest section of this series.
FUCK YOU hospital basement. FUCK YOU wall-stalkers and ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN FUCK YOU to this Uber Clicker/Bloater/Shamber abomination.
How the hell do you beat this guy without turning down the difficulty, because I'm having one hard and terrified time.
Dude, your issue is what weapon managed to kill Joel? Really?
It might be a strange choice of weapon, but was there much else they could have used? They were holed up in some rich guy's mansion, of course there'd be golf clubs lying around. It makes sense.
Sure, it less dignified than a quick shotgun blast to the face, but did you really want her to rip out a pipe or break off a table leg and beat him to death with it? Does it make a difference??
I get disliking the pacing of the prologue or having Joel's death come pretty early into the game with very little moments between him and Ellie, but the manner in which he dies seems irrelevant to the character.
I don't remember ever seeing those, I can believe it from what I remember of the game.
But yeah, after that original teaser trailer for 2, it was only a matter of time.
Btw, anyone else remember those trailers with completely different characters running around or killing people--anything come of those?
I like to think of it as character development combined with an unseen arc
Did you... read my post at all?
Joel meets the group. The group acts normal, friendly and helpful because they still don’t know who Joel is, so it doesn’t raise any red flags for him. Joel reveals his name to the rest of the group, and only then do they act suspicious, for a whole 3 seconds before Abby shoots his leg. You see, Joel didn’t have time to act on their sudden and very short lived suspicious behavior because Abby had already found out who he was ages ago when they were fighting infected.
At this point you’re even nitpicking that it was done with a golf club. It wouldn’t be used in an apocalypse because... you say so?
She doesn't need to feel remorse for killing Joel though, that was my point. And that still doesn't mean she gets off scot-free, Owen dying is the equivalent of Dina dying. The feeling I got was that the writers punished both characters heavily, but Abby, Lev and Ellie are all still alive at the end. All Abby has is Lev and maybe the new Fireflies (although I wish Owen would talk more about how the Fireflies suck, instead he also wants to meet a new group of terrorists, which seems odd because he knows that the WLF are bad and he's tired off it. It's not like the Fireflies are good either, sequel-bait I guess) while Ellie remembers how to draw Joel's face, finds closure and is able to forgive and understand that everything he did was out of love for her. PTSD goes too.
Still doesn't change the fact that Joel and his brother revealed their names to strangers. I don't care if they were living in a peaceful place for years. Joel mentioned in the first game that he has made a lot of enemies for the past 20 years. Even if they weren't fireflies, they could have also been the hunters from the Pittsburg city or David's group who came to avenge their friends. The fact that Joel does the opposite of what Ellie did when she met David makes me think Neil Druckmann didn't play the first game during the development of the sequel.
Because it's the most cartoonish way to kill a beloved character like Joel. Might as well be part of an episode of Family Guy. Not to mention, there are a LOT of memes surrounding that situation.
If ND wanted to make this game as "realistic" as possible, they could have easily had Abby use a bat, a wooden leg, a pipe, a sledgehammer etc. like what anyone would use in apocalypse. But a golf club? This sounds like a kid's writing. It makes it less devastating. Joel's death will never go down as one of the saddest deaths of great characters in video games, along with Lee Everett and Arthur Morgan. Not to mention, the media made a lot of memes out of it.
Also, Abby and her friends come from a large group. How can they go out without any melee weapons.
But the theme of the game was that revenge is all-consuming, obsessing over it will only hurt you and can cause more harm than good. And while it may be hard, even if the other person did something terrible, it is still possible, and better, to forgive. We saw that through Ellie, she becomes determined to get revenge for what Abby did to Joel, but ultimately decides to spare her in the end. We see how the deaths of Abby’s friends impact and leave her traumatized, and how, after letting Abby go, we have a flashback to her last conversation with Joel where she admits to wanting to try and mend their broken relationship and gets that closure you mentioned. That’s fine, I have problems with it’s execution in several areas, but I get it and what they’re going for. But where is that for Abby? If this was the theme of the game, why is it that Abby gets to have her revenge for what Joel did to her father, but Ellie is constantly punished for it? It makes the theme become very muddy because of this. So yeah, if this was going to be the theme of your game, having Abby show remorse over what she did would probably be the route to go, otherwise it makes it seem like Ellie is getting unnecessarily punished, while Abby gets her revenge and is fine.
As dumb as Joel's death is, the fact that Abby uses a golf club as a melee weapon is not that unbelievable and is hardly the biggest problem with that scene.
The Last of Us Part 2 is a Masterpiece...
...MY ASS! And there's people defending and saying that, and I'm like.. 😵. Not a fan of this story, I'll give it 6.5/10 at best. But I'll say this...
Best part of TLOU2 was playing as Ellie and how badass she has become.
Critics don't mean anything to me anymore. The Last of Us 2 is a divisive game and why they consider it a masterpiece is beyond me. The problem isn't just the story, it's also the fact that this game is soo long and repetitive. Barely does anything new for the gameplay,
Not that anyone cares, but I beat that big Infected boss this afternoon. I was too freaked out about it last night that I needed to take a break and turn the game off. (I kid you not, I ended up having a nightmare about it last night. I ended up waking up at 5am, and I couldn't calm myself to sleep for an hour.)
(apologies for the awkward commentary. I had a headset plugged in and talking to myself was the only way for me to keep calm.)
But I did it, killed him, I'm proud of it, and I don't think I'll be going through that chapter again in future playthroughs.