The math is not that hard, the problem with wiki is that the explanation is rather dry.
A good step could be reading introductory books, but it's best that before doing that that you have at least a grasp on geometry and trigonometry.
One day when I have time I'll draw up a scene and frustum diagram for you guys and show you how the whole process works from start to end. Not today, though!
Good idea.... can I ask you to extend this time permitting offering with some concepts on how the TT Engine/Tool works and or current limits (e.g.: like "we can't do this because the tool does this ....")
@Donut:
I find it funny that someone that knows quite a bit on 3D (or at least seems to) has a screen name that is a toroid (A kind of 3D solid)
Good idea.... can I ask you to extend this time permitting offering with some concepts on how the TT Engine/Tool works and or current limits (e.g.: like "we can't do this because the tool does this ....")
Well, we can make the tool do whatever we want given enough time. There's not really such a thing as "too hard to program" if you're willing to invest what's needed. Many limitations arise from the content pipeline and workflow. Some people have suggest that we create hotspots in each scene (would need to be each camera angle in each scene, probably), but that introduces a lot of work that we don't have time for. Not to mention the fact that camera setups and bits of the environment could change all the way until ship -as an example. Some parts of the workflow can be parallelized, but often it must be serial.
I liked the controls in TOMI, I barely used Click n Drag as I don't really like it, but the WSAD and Mouse combo seemed perfect for a modern adventure game in 3D, Considering I can move Guybrush around the screen much faster compared to Sam and Max whilst still having the mouse to click on what I like is great.
Only complaint is putting the inventory on the right hand side of the screen, having it automatically open when pressing the middle mouse button felt much more akin to the COMI style, and I often forgot about the Right Hand Screen way and on some occasions accidentally opened up the Inventory cause I clicked too far Right.
I never said that clicking on something in 3D when it's visible on screen is impossible. Now, open up blender. Rotate the camera so your 3D object is no longer on camera. Pray tell, where should you click if you wanted to select this object that is not visible on screen?
Man, thats damn easy. I would use the middle mouse button to rotate back to a point which i like to see. Or scroll to the area. Or zoom out, scroll, zoom in.
Have you played a 3D strategy game with your mouse? Normally going to an edge of the screen makes the whole thing scroll to another section. No need to WASD for a much bigger game table where only a small part can be seen.
For me WASD works in a 3D Shooter where you don't switch the movement directions.
It's a bit like travelling 17 years back in time. Alone in the Dark 1. Nice graphic, most problem for gamers: user interface. Not the gameplay. In my opinion adventures are played mostly by casual gamers which just shouldn't need to think about how to steer but focus in the gameplay and story.
But hey, that is my opinion. You have another. But i also want you to know why I will not buy future games. It's not about money or story, it's about the control. About feeling comfortable when playing. And thats a sad thing because i like the storys you tell.
Man, thats damn easy. I would use the middle mouse button to rotate back to a point which i like to see. Or scroll to the area. Or zoom out, scroll, zoom in.
Moving the object back onto the screen avoids the question I asked you. We don't allow direct camera control/zooming in our games so this is not a valid solution.
Have you played a 3D strategy game with your mouse? Normally going to an edge of the screen makes the whole thing scroll to another section. No need to WASD for a much bigger game table where only a small part can be seen.
Any RTS player would love to dragon kick your ass into the milky way for that comment. WASD IS an important feature in any RTS, as it allows for a more direct control.
I was sceptical when I first heard of the click'n'drag controls - but after the first part in the first TOMI episode it didn't bother me for the rest of them except in a few scenes.
I think they adapted it well and I see that it's beneficial for the cinematography and all.
When I first started playing it reminded me of trying to get to grips with the Grim Fandango controls; but, as passionate gamers, we should be able to adapt to new things right?
I personally dislike the click and drag, too. I usually lose Guybrush and have to do it again, plus he just turns around when the camera angle changes. (Also, it took me two episodes before I realised you could run but I guess that was my fault).
I understand the impossibility to click on ground that isn't there, but I was wondering, out of curiosity, since it can recognise directions for click and drag (as in, you're putting your mouse towards the left, so it goes left) why can't it do it without the dragging part? As in, I click the left side of the screen it goes towards the left end of the screen (stopping at crossroads I guess).
I realise you know that stuff a lot better than I do and you would have done it if it was possible and practical, I'm just not quite sure how it works (or rather, doesn't work).
The arrows in Wallace and Gromit were less annoying than the click&drag in TOMI, I found, but I'd still end up stuck in corners and stuff like that. I find it annoying, I prefer point and click, I don't think any level of graphics is worth less intuitive controls, but it's not going to stop me from buying the games.
Plus, I realise you're probably constantly trying to improve on stuff, and when trying to improve it's normal to take risks and often end up taking a step back. The first 3D games were positively ugly compared to the 2D games directly preceeding them, but now 3D games look much better and much less cubic, for instance.
I'm not sure I like the direction where you're trying to go (can't say the angles are doing much for me and as I said I don't really like the controls) but at least you're trying new things, which is nice. I hope you'll keep changing it so it can become something I like better, though :P
(Oh, and the click and drag thing is hard on arthritis, too. So are keyboard keys. Are your latest games playable with a joystick instead?)
It has nothing to do with extra/difficult programming. It is mathematically impossible to solve for an intersection point that doesn't exist (well, in some cases there is an imaginary solution but that's hardly useful here) -i.e. the ground plane is not being clicked on. New cinematography direction says we want to have interesting camera angles, so we needed a way to move the character around without the ground plane being in the shot. That left us with WASD and Click/Drag.
But you never needed to click on the floor *before* click and drag.
You could click on any old piece of the background, and the character would move to the nearest floor spot to that point.
In fact I rarely click on the actual floor in *any* point and click adventure games. I just don't get this argument!
But you never needed to click on the floor *before* click and drag.
You could click on any old piece of the background, and the character would move to the nearest floor spot to that point.
In fact I rarely click on the actual floor in *any* point and click adventure games. I just don't get this argument!
The truth is, all games you played except for ToMI had such a gameplay that the character's walking pathway was always a one-dimensional line. Sam and Max's street is a big example of this. Because of that, character only goes through the horizontal axis (left and right), and the point you want to go could only be determined by the whereabouts of your mouse ONLY IN THE HORIZONTAL AXIS.
Well, there were some two-dimensional pathways in some cases (the gap between Sybil's and Office door in Sam and Max S1, or inside of the castle in Night of the Raving Dead) but you HAD to click on the floor to determine a point to walk over in these places.
You see, when you click on somewhere to go, your click is only there to determine a point to go. But since your cursor only moves in a 2D surface, it can't determine third dimension values. All pathways seen in ToMI were two-dimensional. By your logic, yes, the character still can go left and right, but what about which side of the road the character uses? Road is wide enough. Is he walking on the left side of it, or right, or the middle? By clicking on air, you can't determine it. You HAVE to click the floor.
By some cinematic purposes, they added a lot of background elements and nifty camera angles which would make point-and-click gameplay really challenging for us. So they added a more corresponding gameplay system, and it worked actually quite well.
You could click on any old piece of the background, and the character would move to the nearest floor spot to that point.
That only works if you can guarantee that the scenes are set up that way. It is very possible to frame a shot such that the floor is not visible, and the only wall/background you can see is not the direction you wish to go. What if you want to walk toward the camera or off to the sides?
What worked in the past only worked because people were willing to constrain the design of their game and levels to support it.
I just wanted to say I've never seen a company spend so much time on a single question. Major props to TTG (or major props to Yare if he's spending his personal time on it)
And holy crap, you're right. So far with Sam & Max, we were all restricted to simple surroundings.
Also, what most people forget, is the atmosphere the very first chapter showed us. Without the boats rocking, it wouldn't work. But, with the boats rocking, point & click would not work. Sure, you could sacrifice that effect, but what is the main thing we see in pirate movies? Boats rocking. When there's a calm, the boat scenes are actually calm, but when there's a storm, the camera rarely is stationary. Sure, it doesn't really help with the visibility of said scenes, but really, do we give a crap? No, because it also gives atmosphere.
And this game really takes it from the atmosphere. Club 41 wouldn't be Club 41 without all the chairs and tables in the way, and without the multiple paths through Club 41, that wonderful fight between Morgan and Elaine would not be possible in this way. The way Spinner Cay is portrayed really added to the greatness. Sure, it would have been even better to have the camera have a smooth transition between camera angles, but that's for another time. Mini-puzzles like walking around the Vaycalian Calendar, how annoying some people find it to be, wouldn't be possible. That maze puzzle with the sounds would really be hell if you couldn't control Guybrush directly.
Seriously, why do people often think of just that bridge scene when talking about cinematographic views? It's not the most impressive. It is one of the more stylish uses which couldn't have been done with point & click (heck, the bridge in itself would be hell, and otherwise it would have to be a separate scene in order to make it work out better), but there are far better examples.
In fact, using click and drag actually creates a second effect, one which none of the Telltale employees have brought up, and one which they probably don't even realize they achieved. Point & click actually creates distance. You are the one pointing at a place, basically giving orders to the main character on where they should stand. By replacing it with click and drag or with WASD control, you are changing the control from the man who directs to the man who controls. In fact, you don't control the characters anymore, you are the character.
It's a reason why Miyamoto probably wanted to make the next Zelda a first person game, by bringing the player even closer to the main character. With adventure games like this, we can't get any closer than click and drag. And I hope they won't change that either. I don't want to be the one controlling Sam, I want to be Sam.
I just wanted to say I've never seen a company spend so much time on a single question. Major props to TTG (or major props to Yare if he's spending his personal time on it)
I handle explaining this question myself. Over and over and over again in every forum on the board.
I handle explaining this question myself. Over and over and over again in every forum on the board.
That must be very annoying and very frustrating. Bet even the programming is less frustrating :P
I agree it's great that you're answering and tying to explain (even if we mostly can't understand at all how it works) rather than just tell us "screw you, that's that".
So does that mean the arrows and click and drag are going to be used from now on? I thought it was just because it was Monkey Island, and that Sam&Max would stay Sam&Max, with the point and click and everything.
I guess it's just weird, because this type of game is called point&click adventure games. Will we have to call them "click&drag adventure games" from now on?
I guess it's just weird, because this type of game is called point&click adventure games. Will we have to call them "click&drag adventure games" from now on?
I don't know about you, but I did plenty of pointing and clicking in W&G and TMI both.
I don't know about you, but I did plenty of pointing and clicking in W&G and TMI both.
Good point. Actually, I spent much of the games clicking on items to move without having to use the keyboard and click and drag. Just because you don't JUST point and click like before doesn't mean you don't at all anymore.
I don't know about you, but I did plenty of pointing and clicking in W&G and TMI both.
Actually, that's one of the main reasons this discussion is still alive IMO - you do plenty of p&c, the character navigates to the target object, etc. At times it almost feels like a p&c game - I recall one of the W&G episodes was like 80% playable with the mouse only.
I don't know about you, but I did plenty of pointing and clicking in W&G and TMI both.
I did this too.. although one part on Spinner Cay which confused me was when, next to the raft, you double click the lamp next to the library and Guybrush runs to it in a zig-zag pattern to it.
There would have been a programmed path for this - so there may either be a problem in programming said paths... or it's just a mistake.
Either way, as a whole I adapted to the click and drag for a character combined with point and click for objects.
They always gotta mess a good thing up somehow... I'd like nothing more than to see Sam'n'Max be a good old fashion point&clicker but that's not gonna happen. All programmed paths and whatnot aside, the real reason we're being forced to WASD/click&drag is the Xbox controller. One control scheme for all platforms. Would be so great if the PC version would be point&click but meh, it's the direction we're going and it's the price we gotta pay to play these adventure games in the first place.
Cmon Telltale, surprise us. Point & Click for Sam & Max season 3!
All programmed paths and whatnot aside, the real reason we're being forced to WASD/click&drag is the Xbox controller. One control scheme for all platforms.
Hasn't it been said that that's not the real reason, over and over?
That's not the *official* reason. I agree that it was probably a motivation, but the "cinimatic" explanation sounds a lot better and I'm sure was also a motivation. This is one of those "a whole is equal to the sum of it's parts" deal. Keep in mind TTG is trying to keep from catering to any 1 group, so they're never going to admit they made a change specifically to help any 1 group - simple PR.
That's not the *official* reason. I agree that it was probably a motivation, but the "cinimatic" explanation sounds a lot better and I'm sure was also a motivation.
Now, I have no clue what I'm talin about (at least I admit it, mind you) but if it was only about the Xbox, couldn't they add the keyboard controls as an option, while still keeping point & click as another option?
I mean, you probably can't "click & drag" with the Xbox, either, right? So it doesn't sound to me like click & drag can have anything to do whatsoever with the Xbox.
No plans for [point & click for Sam & Max 3].
Oh, Yare, why must you crush my hopes so?
(I know, I know. It's your job.)
I have changed my forum title to more accurately reflect this.
Neat!
Since we're talking about Sam&Max 3, is the interface a complete secret right now or are you allowed to talk about it? I'm curious if it's the same as ToMI or if it's different.
(Although, I guess it's different at least to some extent. Of the games I played not 2 had exactly the same one. Even Sam&Max 1 and Sam&Max 2 had small differences)
I don't expect you to be allowed to say more on the subject (apart from "no point and click") but hey, it's worth giving it a try.
The interface is still in flux, and being iterated on. Jake and I work on that stuff for SM3 with him on the design/art side and me on the programming side. We do good work together and you guys should be in for some awesome stuff. That's all I can really say at this point.
I can and will wait, but I'm looking forward to it, I'm shivering with anticipation, I'm in haste to see the end result, I'm... running out of synonyms.
I know, I have to learn patience, Grasshopper, but what's the fun in that? You appreciate things a lot more if you've waited for them impatiently than if you forgot they were even going to exist until they come out.
(It's good not to insult the people who are making these things possible and tell them they're too slow, though. Or demand to have things NAO. But that doesn't mean I have to be patient. I don't know, the way I understand it, being patient means you're not enthusiastic about the thing. Which isn't good.)
By replacing it with click and drag or with WASD control, you are changing the control from the man who directs to the man who controls. In fact, you don't control the characters anymore, you are the character.
You mean you change from aplayable guy to a thing which stops on a lawn? Getting more to steering then to puzzle? Believe me, there are other adventures in 3D which are playable with mouse. The double click is missing.
And the rocking boat... Sure it is doneable with point and click. How do you talk to Elaine, or pick up something? Where do you see the difference?
The interface is still in flux, and being iterated on. Jake and I work on that stuff for SM3 with him on the design/art side and me on the programming side. We do good work together and you guys should be in for some awesome stuff. That's all I can really say at this point.
You need precise clicks, but if an area is large enough, it doesn't matter if you click dead-center or on the edges. Precision and precise are two different words.
Comments
A good step could be reading introductory books, but it's best that before doing that that you have at least a grasp on geometry and trigonometry.
Good idea.... can I ask you to extend this time permitting offering with some concepts on how the TT Engine/Tool works and or current limits (e.g.: like "we can't do this because the tool does this ....")
@Donut:
I find it funny that someone that knows quite a bit on 3D (or at least seems to) has a screen name that is a toroid (A kind of 3D solid)
Well, we can make the tool do whatever we want given enough time. There's not really such a thing as "too hard to program" if you're willing to invest what's needed. Many limitations arise from the content pipeline and workflow. Some people have suggest that we create hotspots in each scene (would need to be each camera angle in each scene, probably), but that introduces a lot of work that we don't have time for. Not to mention the fact that camera setups and bits of the environment could change all the way until ship -as an example. Some parts of the workflow can be parallelized, but often it must be serial.
Only complaint is putting the inventory on the right hand side of the screen, having it automatically open when pressing the middle mouse button felt much more akin to the COMI style, and I often forgot about the Right Hand Screen way and on some occasions accidentally opened up the Inventory cause I clicked too far Right.
Man, thats damn easy. I would use the middle mouse button to rotate back to a point which i like to see. Or scroll to the area. Or zoom out, scroll, zoom in.
Have you played a 3D strategy game with your mouse? Normally going to an edge of the screen makes the whole thing scroll to another section. No need to WASD for a much bigger game table where only a small part can be seen.
For me WASD works in a 3D Shooter where you don't switch the movement directions.
It's a bit like travelling 17 years back in time. Alone in the Dark 1. Nice graphic, most problem for gamers: user interface. Not the gameplay. In my opinion adventures are played mostly by casual gamers which just shouldn't need to think about how to steer but focus in the gameplay and story.
But hey, that is my opinion. You have another. But i also want you to know why I will not buy future games. It's not about money or story, it's about the control. About feeling comfortable when playing. And thats a sad thing because i like the storys you tell.
Moving the object back onto the screen avoids the question I asked you. We don't allow direct camera control/zooming in our games so this is not a valid solution.
That reminds me, I've meant to ask it for a while - why not zooming?
Any RTS player would love to dragon kick your ass into the milky way for that comment. WASD IS an important feature in any RTS, as it allows for a more direct control.
I think they adapted it well and I see that it's beneficial for the cinematography and all.
When I first started playing it reminded me of trying to get to grips with the Grim Fandango controls; but, as passionate gamers, we should be able to adapt to new things right?
I understand the impossibility to click on ground that isn't there, but I was wondering, out of curiosity, since it can recognise directions for click and drag (as in, you're putting your mouse towards the left, so it goes left) why can't it do it without the dragging part? As in, I click the left side of the screen it goes towards the left end of the screen (stopping at crossroads I guess).
I realise you know that stuff a lot better than I do and you would have done it if it was possible and practical, I'm just not quite sure how it works (or rather, doesn't work).
The arrows in Wallace and Gromit were less annoying than the click&drag in TOMI, I found, but I'd still end up stuck in corners and stuff like that. I find it annoying, I prefer point and click, I don't think any level of graphics is worth less intuitive controls, but it's not going to stop me from buying the games.
Plus, I realise you're probably constantly trying to improve on stuff, and when trying to improve it's normal to take risks and often end up taking a step back. The first 3D games were positively ugly compared to the 2D games directly preceeding them, but now 3D games look much better and much less cubic, for instance.
I'm not sure I like the direction where you're trying to go (can't say the angles are doing much for me and as I said I don't really like the controls) but at least you're trying new things, which is nice. I hope you'll keep changing it so it can become something I like better, though :P
(Oh, and the click and drag thing is hard on arthritis, too. So are keyboard keys. Are your latest games playable with a joystick instead?)
But you never needed to click on the floor *before* click and drag.
You could click on any old piece of the background, and the character would move to the nearest floor spot to that point.
In fact I rarely click on the actual floor in *any* point and click adventure games. I just don't get this argument!
The truth is, all games you played except for ToMI had such a gameplay that the character's walking pathway was always a one-dimensional line. Sam and Max's street is a big example of this. Because of that, character only goes through the horizontal axis (left and right), and the point you want to go could only be determined by the whereabouts of your mouse ONLY IN THE HORIZONTAL AXIS.
Well, there were some two-dimensional pathways in some cases (the gap between Sybil's and Office door in Sam and Max S1, or inside of the castle in Night of the Raving Dead) but you HAD to click on the floor to determine a point to walk over in these places.
You see, when you click on somewhere to go, your click is only there to determine a point to go. But since your cursor only moves in a 2D surface, it can't determine third dimension values. All pathways seen in ToMI were two-dimensional. By your logic, yes, the character still can go left and right, but what about which side of the road the character uses? Road is wide enough. Is he walking on the left side of it, or right, or the middle? By clicking on air, you can't determine it. You HAVE to click the floor.
By some cinematic purposes, they added a lot of background elements and nifty camera angles which would make point-and-click gameplay really challenging for us. So they added a more corresponding gameplay system, and it worked actually quite well.
That only works if you can guarantee that the scenes are set up that way. It is very possible to frame a shot such that the floor is not visible, and the only wall/background you can see is not the direction you wish to go. What if you want to walk toward the camera or off to the sides?
What worked in the past only worked because people were willing to constrain the design of their game and levels to support it.
I'll do it. What's the cash?
And holy crap, you're right. So far with Sam & Max, we were all restricted to simple surroundings.
Also, what most people forget, is the atmosphere the very first chapter showed us. Without the boats rocking, it wouldn't work. But, with the boats rocking, point & click would not work. Sure, you could sacrifice that effect, but what is the main thing we see in pirate movies? Boats rocking. When there's a calm, the boat scenes are actually calm, but when there's a storm, the camera rarely is stationary. Sure, it doesn't really help with the visibility of said scenes, but really, do we give a crap? No, because it also gives atmosphere.
And this game really takes it from the atmosphere. Club 41 wouldn't be Club 41 without all the chairs and tables in the way, and without the multiple paths through Club 41, that wonderful fight between Morgan and Elaine would not be possible in this way. The way Spinner Cay is portrayed really added to the greatness. Sure, it would have been even better to have the camera have a smooth transition between camera angles, but that's for another time. Mini-puzzles like walking around the Vaycalian Calendar, how annoying some people find it to be, wouldn't be possible. That maze puzzle with the sounds would really be hell if you couldn't control Guybrush directly.
Seriously, why do people often think of just that bridge scene when talking about cinematographic views? It's not the most impressive. It is one of the more stylish uses which couldn't have been done with point & click (heck, the bridge in itself would be hell, and otherwise it would have to be a separate scene in order to make it work out better), but there are far better examples.
In fact, using click and drag actually creates a second effect, one which none of the Telltale employees have brought up, and one which they probably don't even realize they achieved. Point & click actually creates distance. You are the one pointing at a place, basically giving orders to the main character on where they should stand. By replacing it with click and drag or with WASD control, you are changing the control from the man who directs to the man who controls. In fact, you don't control the characters anymore, you are the character.
It's a reason why Miyamoto probably wanted to make the next Zelda a first person game, by bringing the player even closer to the main character. With adventure games like this, we can't get any closer than click and drag. And I hope they won't change that either. I don't want to be the one controlling Sam, I want to be Sam.
I handle explaining this question myself. Over and over and over again in every forum on the board.
That must be very annoying and very frustrating. Bet even the programming is less frustrating :P
I agree it's great that you're answering and tying to explain (even if we mostly can't understand at all how it works) rather than just tell us "screw you, that's that".
So does that mean the arrows and click and drag are going to be used from now on? I thought it was just because it was Monkey Island, and that Sam&Max would stay Sam&Max, with the point and click and everything.
I guess it's just weird, because this type of game is called point&click adventure games. Will we have to call them "click&drag adventure games" from now on?
Have you had to up your meds yet? :guybrush:
I don't know about you, but I did plenty of pointing and clicking in W&G and TMI both.
Good point. Actually, I spent much of the games clicking on items to move without having to use the keyboard and click and drag. Just because you don't JUST point and click like before doesn't mean you don't at all anymore.
Actually, that's one of the main reasons this discussion is still alive IMO - you do plenty of p&c, the character navigates to the target object, etc. At times it almost feels like a p&c game - I recall one of the W&G episodes was like 80% playable with the mouse only.
I did this too.. although one part on Spinner Cay which confused me was when, next to the raft, you double click the lamp next to the library and Guybrush runs to it in a zig-zag pattern to it.
There would have been a programmed path for this - so there may either be a problem in programming said paths... or it's just a mistake.
Either way, as a whole I adapted to the click and drag for a character combined with point and click for objects.
Cmon Telltale, surprise us. Point & Click for Sam & Max season 3!
That's not the *official* reason. I agree that it was probably a motivation, but the "cinimatic" explanation sounds a lot better and I'm sure was also a motivation. This is one of those "a whole is equal to the sum of it's parts" deal. Keep in mind TTG is trying to keep from catering to any 1 group, so they're never going to admit they made a change specifically to help any 1 group - simple PR.
No plans for this.
Now, I have no clue what I'm talin about (at least I admit it, mind you) but if it was only about the Xbox, couldn't they add the keyboard controls as an option, while still keeping point & click as another option?
I mean, you probably can't "click & drag" with the Xbox, either, right? So it doesn't sound to me like click & drag can have anything to do whatsoever with the Xbox.
Oh, Yare, why must you crush my hopes so?
(I know, I know. It's your job.)
I have changed my forum title to more accurately reflect this.
Neat!
Since we're talking about Sam&Max 3, is the interface a complete secret right now or are you allowed to talk about it? I'm curious if it's the same as ToMI or if it's different.
(Although, I guess it's different at least to some extent. Of the games I played not 2 had exactly the same one. Even Sam&Max 1 and Sam&Max 2 had small differences)
I don't expect you to be allowed to say more on the subject (apart from "no point and click") but hey, it's worth giving it a try.
You're gonna have to learn it then. Bazinga!
I can and will wait, but I'm looking forward to it, I'm shivering with anticipation, I'm in haste to see the end result, I'm... running out of synonyms.
I know, I have to learn patience, Grasshopper, but what's the fun in that? You appreciate things a lot more if you've waited for them impatiently than if you forgot they were even going to exist until they come out.
(It's good not to insult the people who are making these things possible and tell them they're too slow, though. Or demand to have things NAO. But that doesn't mean I have to be patient. I don't know, the way I understand it, being patient means you're not enthusiastic about the thing. Which isn't good.)
Alright, Tsunomoto Rein
You mean you change from aplayable guy to a thing which stops on a lawn? Getting more to steering then to puzzle? Believe me, there are other adventures in 3D which are playable with mouse. The double click is missing.
And the rocking boat... Sure it is doneable with point and click. How do you talk to Elaine, or pick up something? Where do you see the difference?
Oh... that screen name is old...
In Simpsons a few years before there was a Homer with donut head. (Images on the search engine of your choice)
Sounds good!
A bigger clickable area that doesn't require precision.
Does Adventures need precise clicks ? Wlkt to somewhere is the most boring part in a game. Just puts the cheaper part without story to length.