I understand your feelings Gary, I think, since I feel the same way about using vulgarities. At the same time I accept that other people don't feel the same way that I do, and I feel everyone has the right to live their life as they see fit, as long as they don't specifically harm another person or group.
If somebody uses the occasional cuss, and it isn't directed at any one person or group in particular I can accept that, personally, especially if they usually express themselves in a courteous and considerate manner. I also feel that some people have made posts that I considered rude or disrespectful without resorting to "bad" language.
Okay, so some people don't mind swear words and other people do. How about we all agree to respect one another opinions as best we can, and live in peace and love and harmony and enjoy some tasty pancakes?
OOh!
I've just given some pancakes slathered with maple syrup to a bloke in "broken sword 2"
He wasn't best pleased with me as he was chased by a hive of angry wasps.:D
I try not to swear, but I don't see why it even exists. They're just words. And the 'F word' does not mean to rape someone, it just means to fornicate with them. Why isn't fornicate the 'bad word?' F*** has been around since 1503. Bad words are just words that people dislike for no reason.
F*** is worse then fornicate while they mean the same thing?
S*** and feces?
C*** and female genitalia?
Well, all I can say is that you are seriously underestimating the power of words.
I have to agree with Haggis, words alone stared the third reich, words themselves cause each other to hate, and be disgusted by others.
Words can be a weapon of mass destruction.
You should be able to find a pancake house even there in the UK. At least in the Netherlands we have pancake houses, some which actually serve American pancakes, with Maple Syrup. It's the thing I always take when I go to Bataviastad.
I have to agree with Haggis, words alone stared the third reich, words themselves cause each other to hate, and be disgusted by others.
Words can be a weapon of mass destruction.
This is where you overestimate the power of words. Words can be the most powerful force in the world. The same word can be the best thing ever, or the your worst nightmare. It all depends on how the listener takes it.
Instead of giving you some kind of philosophical rant about how imprecise language can be, I will tell you a little story to make my point (Christmas time is storytime-don't you think?):
A few years ago (I was still in school back then) my friends and I played that really terrible game of cards. "Terrible" because I really sucked at it. I know "suck" is not a nice word, but I really sucked at this game.
Anyways, to win the game you have to get rid of all your cards, how you lose your cards I can't remember, but there were tons of rules how to get more cards. One of those rules was, that you are not allowed to curse while playing the game.
Well, I'm the kind of person who curses a lot, if he gets frustrated. After I lost several rounds, I tried to trespass the rule by exchanging the "dirty" words with harmless ones.
Instead of the word "Scheiße" (which I will not translate for you) I used the word "Apfelmuß" (which is quite delicious).
To make it short: It didn't work, why you may ask?
Because it doesn't matter which words you are using, what matters is the intention you have, when you are saying theese words.
Ok, while reading this post I ask myself an age old question: "Does this wasteland of words add something new to this discussion?"
The answer is: No, but I always wanted to tell this story, thank you for reading.
By the way, I'm more the waffle-person, with whipped cream and strawberry Jam. Pancakes are far too thin for my taste.
The whole concept of swearing is so fucking backwards in my opinion, it's untrue. The very negativity it supposedly portrays is completely circular in that suppressing "swear words" perpetuates their need to be suppressed. If nobody was bothered by them then there wouldn't be a problem. And what's more, how in hell is it less rude to impede on another persons free will and right to free speech than it is to say arbitrarily forbidden words? As I see it, it's way more rude to think you have dominion over another person's choices, espeically if you don't even know them.
Having said this, if I ever have kids I'll probably tell them not to swear in public, purely because it can cause negativity. I still believe that said negativity is derived only from the actual prohibition of swearing itself, but one person boycotting something so popular isn't going to make much difference. That's the same reason I'm not a vegetarian.
It's not just about morality, it's also a form of discipline. In fact, there should be no reason to even act angry, to be angry, hateful or anything. Swearing is a way of venting your anger. Sure, it's not right to keep building up your rage, but that's why we can save things for later, so we can vent in in an unguarded time, when nobody is near, when you can do no harm. And even then we shouldn't release your anger. In fact, why be angry about something? Mostly we are angry because something trivial bothers us, like, we stub our toe, or somebody's being annoying.
There really is no use to being mean, to be angry, and subsequently, there really is no use to use swear words, and that's the thing we should teach our children. Not just that swear words are bad, but that anger should be suppressed, or at least not be let shown in the presence of others. It can potentially alienate you from others if you let it happen.
I also think that "freedom of speech" is used too liberally. Just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You can't go say to everybody to go screw themselves. That's just stupid and impolite.
It's not just about morality, it's also a form of discipline. In fact, there should be no reason to even act angry, to be angry, hateful or anything. Swearing is a way of venting your anger. Sure, it's not right to keep building up your rage, but that's why we can save things for later, so we can vent in in an unguarded time, when nobody is near, when you can do no harm. And even then we shouldn't release your anger. In fact, why be angry about something? Mostly we are angry because something trivial bothers us, like, we stub our toe, or somebody's being annoying.
There really is no use to being mean, to be angry, and subsequently, there really is no use to use swear words, and that's the thing we should teach our children. Not just that swear words are bad, but that anger should be suppressed, or at least not be let shown in the presence of others. It can potentially alienate you from others if you let it happen.
I'd feel more alienated from somebody if I never saw them get angry about anything. It's normal and healthy to feel and express anger, as long as you aren't doing it in ways that are hurtful to those around you.
Being angry is human, being able to control it however requires discipline. You can't just burst into a tantrum every time you feel angry, most of the times, and not even sometimes, most of the times you need to swallow that anger. Yes, you can rant about it afterwards, but for the moment, it's always better to stay shut.
Not getting angry might alienate you from others, but being too easily pissed has the very same effect.
Not just that swear words are bad, but that anger should be suppressed, or at least not be let shown in the presence of others. It can potentially alienate you from others if you let it happen.
Here, I disagree. It's way more healthy to let out your anger than to suppress it. Teaching your children to suppress their anger is like introducing them to the world of stress related diseases. Instead teach them the consequences if they do it in an innapropriate way.
I also think that "freedom of speech" is used too liberally. Just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You can't go say to everybody to go screw themselves. That's just stupid and impolite.
Personally I think "freedom of speech" can't be used too liberally, because then the word "freedom" will lose it's sense. If you're not allowed to say anything, than there is no "freedom" at all, don't you think?
But, being allowed to say everything doesn't mean that others have to tolerate what those people are saying. "Freedom of speech" implies at the same time "freedom of listening" and if you want to ignore people who are using to much swear words, it's ok.
Just don't expect that everyone else will follow your lead.
People freak out too much about freedom. It's ok to be restricted some times. In fact it's more healthy than being free in everything you do.
I can't stand the "It's my rite to say what I want" attitude at the expense of others. Just saying "Well you don't have to listen to it then" is obnoxious and simply inconsiderate and alienates you from people. I know I don't want to be anywhere near people like that. Then again if you want to be alienated go right ahead. You're certainly free to do so.
I tend to agree with MusicallyInspired here. Showing constraint is hard, but it does show that you are mature. That thought comes across well in Rudyard Kipling's poem If.
It's not just about morality, it's also a form of discipline. In fact, there should be no reason to even act angry, to be angry, hateful or anything. Swearing is a way of venting your anger. Sure, it's not right to keep building up your rage, but that's why we can save things for later, so we can vent in in an unguarded time, when nobody is near, when you can do no harm. And even then we shouldn't release your anger. In fact, why be angry about something? Mostly we are angry because something trivial bothers us, like, we stub our toe, or somebody's being annoying.
While I agree that releasing your anger by punching stuff and shouting and stuff like that is unhealthy (since the adrenaline it releases can be addictive and being addicted to hitting things can be seen as a bad thing), I also think that suppressing it can be unhealthy. The best way to deal with anger is to rationalise it, in my opinion. Someone once said "the best way to get rid of a problem is to solve it", and that's true for anger.
There really is no use to being mean, to be angry, and subsequently, there really is no use to use swear words, and that's the thing we should teach our children. Not just that swear words are bad, but that anger should be suppressed, or at least not be let shown in the presence of others. It can potentially alienate you from others if you let it happen.
I think you've made a false leap in logic here. You've understandably mixed up content and context, which is what I think a lot of people are doing. Swearing doesn't imply anger or nastiness. For example, I could say "I fucking love ice cream" or "this ice cream is the shit" without expressing anything negative. Similarly, I could say "You're a childish brat with no prospects and I hope you die" (not you, that was just a random sentence :P) and cause a lot of unhappiness in someone. By the very nature of modifiers (grammatical ones), they can't imply too specific a notion. Frankly, the idea of censoring any words other than nouns in order to prevent offence betrays a grave misunderstanding of the English language.
On reflection, that last sentence actually sounds a tad offensive (it wasn't supposed to be; it wasn't directed at anybody here), and you'll notice that not only are there no swear words, but also that it's the idea conveyed, rather than the letters used, that effects the offensiveness. Proves my point pretty well :P. Obviously, the letters used facilitate the idea conveyed, but the point is that they can be changed without also changing the idea.
Yes, there's the free speech argument. However, I think that human consideration, compassion, and politeness are more important than free speech.
Human consideration, compassion and politeness are monumentally impaired by censoring words. It is not only lazy, but ineffective to say "you shouldn't say this word or this word" rather than "you shouldn't imply this or this". Simply put, again, there's a mix-up between context and content.
In the Netherlands, we use cancer (kanker) in the same way as the f-word, both in negative and positive sense. Would you feel great if you are either a victim of cancer or somebody close to you died because of cancer and somebody uses the word as much as possible? Sure there are debates about those people being over-sensitive, but we still should be considerate.
I mean, if you were to say "kanker kutjood", translated freely to stupid Jew, where "Jood" is Dutch for jew (what "kut" means I leave behind, that's an offensive word in itself, but not as much as "kanker"), people really would have no respect for you.
Also, considering the games thus far only have a PG-13 rating, where the F-bomb can't be freely used, and this actually being a family board (up until Tales of Monkey Island, because that's when the crap hit the fan), I really feel like this board is starting to degenerate if we were to allow everybody to just freely use these words. I mean, I can understand a one-time slip, or a once in a long time occasion, but not in nearly 1 out of 10 topics I come to.
Sorry, but that's where I draw a line. I imagine Telltale Games to be family friendly, and I also expect the forums to be quite similar.
There really is no use to being mean, to be angry, and subsequently, there really is no use to use swear words, and that's the thing we should teach our children.
Yeah! Who needs anger. F
..
c
..
it!
Sorry for hinting a swearing but no anger?! Anger is a wonderful emotion. It shows so much. You have to show your anger! What the hell man?! People need anger. If you don't get angered, then what the hell do you care about swear words?
I mean, if you were to say "kanker kutjood", translated freely to stupid Jew, where "Jood" is Dutch for jew (what "kut" means I leave behind, that's an offensive word in itself, but not as much as "kanker"), people really would have no respect for you.
Seriously, I'm really getting sick of people completely missing the point. It makes people look like freaking idiots.
I think you just contradicted yourself.
Besides, your post was kind of unclear on what your point was. All you really said was "these words are offensive". I was just sick of swearing and racial epitaphs being treated as the same thing.
Comments
If somebody uses the occasional cuss, and it isn't directed at any one person or group in particular I can accept that, personally, especially if they usually express themselves in a courteous and considerate manner. I also feel that some people have made posts that I considered rude or disrespectful without resorting to "bad" language.
I've just given some pancakes slathered with maple syrup to a bloke in "broken sword 2"
He wasn't best pleased with me as he was chased by a hive of angry wasps.:D
Personally, I think people who swear should
And I do take Nikki for an example because she was probably the one with the most trouble during the webcast if I should believe her after-comments.
No, but i preffer the potato variety. Yum.
F*** is worse then fornicate while they mean the same thing?
S*** and feces?
C*** and female genitalia?
I have to agree with Haggis, words alone stared the third reich, words themselves cause each other to hate, and be disgusted by others.
Words can be a weapon of mass destruction.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will only cause permanent psychological damage!
~ Lano & Woodley
I'd only be tempted by lemon and honey. And you gotta promise to let me flip them.
I'm in!
I don't think i've ever had maple syrup...:o
This is where you overestimate the power of words. Words can be the most powerful force in the world. The same word can be the best thing ever, or the your worst nightmare. It all depends on how the listener takes it.
Now please pass the strawberry jam.
I'll get in on this pancake action. I love me my maple syrup...
A few years ago (I was still in school back then) my friends and I played that really terrible game of cards. "Terrible" because I really sucked at it. I know "suck" is not a nice word, but I really sucked at this game.
Anyways, to win the game you have to get rid of all your cards, how you lose your cards I can't remember, but there were tons of rules how to get more cards. One of those rules was, that you are not allowed to curse while playing the game.
Well, I'm the kind of person who curses a lot, if he gets frustrated. After I lost several rounds, I tried to trespass the rule by exchanging the "dirty" words with harmless ones.
Instead of the word "Scheiße" (which I will not translate for you) I used the word "Apfelmuß" (which is quite delicious).
To make it short: It didn't work, why you may ask?
Because it doesn't matter which words you are using, what matters is the intention you have, when you are saying theese words.
Ok, while reading this post I ask myself an age old question: "Does this wasteland of words add something new to this discussion?"
The answer is: No, but I always wanted to tell this story, thank you for reading.
By the way, I'm more the waffle-person, with whipped cream and strawberry Jam. Pancakes are far too thin for my taste.
Merry Christmas!
Having said this, if I ever have kids I'll probably tell them not to swear in public, purely because it can cause negativity. I still believe that said negativity is derived only from the actual prohibition of swearing itself, but one person boycotting something so popular isn't going to make much difference. That's the same reason I'm not a vegetarian.
There really is no use to being mean, to be angry, and subsequently, there really is no use to use swear words, and that's the thing we should teach our children. Not just that swear words are bad, but that anger should be suppressed, or at least not be let shown in the presence of others. It can potentially alienate you from others if you let it happen.
I'd feel more alienated from somebody if I never saw them get angry about anything. It's normal and healthy to feel and express anger, as long as you aren't doing it in ways that are hurtful to those around you.
Not getting angry might alienate you from others, but being too easily pissed has the very same effect.
Here, I totally agree with you.
Here, I disagree. It's way more healthy to let out your anger than to suppress it. Teaching your children to suppress their anger is like introducing them to the world of stress related diseases. Instead teach them the consequences if they do it in an innapropriate way.
Personally I think "freedom of speech" can't be used too liberally, because then the word "freedom" will lose it's sense. If you're not allowed to say anything, than there is no "freedom" at all, don't you think?
But, being allowed to say everything doesn't mean that others have to tolerate what those people are saying. "Freedom of speech" implies at the same time "freedom of listening" and if you want to ignore people who are using to much swear words, it's ok.
Just don't expect that everyone else will follow your lead.
I can't stand the "It's my rite to say what I want" attitude at the expense of others. Just saying "Well you don't have to listen to it then" is obnoxious and simply inconsiderate and alienates you from people. I know I don't want to be anywhere near people like that. Then again if you want to be alienated go right ahead. You're certainly free to do so.
I think you've made a false leap in logic here. You've understandably mixed up content and context, which is what I think a lot of people are doing. Swearing doesn't imply anger or nastiness. For example, I could say "I fucking love ice cream" or "this ice cream is the shit" without expressing anything negative. Similarly, I could say "You're a childish brat with no prospects and I hope you die" (not you, that was just a random sentence :P) and cause a lot of unhappiness in someone. By the very nature of modifiers (grammatical ones), they can't imply too specific a notion. Frankly, the idea of censoring any words other than nouns in order to prevent offence betrays a grave misunderstanding of the English language.
On reflection, that last sentence actually sounds a tad offensive (it wasn't supposed to be; it wasn't directed at anybody here), and you'll notice that not only are there no swear words, but also that it's the idea conveyed, rather than the letters used, that effects the offensiveness. Proves my point pretty well :P. Obviously, the letters used facilitate the idea conveyed, but the point is that they can be changed without also changing the idea.
Human consideration, compassion and politeness are monumentally impaired by censoring words. It is not only lazy, but ineffective to say "you shouldn't say this word or this word" rather than "you shouldn't imply this or this". Simply put, again, there's a mix-up between context and content.
In the Netherlands, we use cancer (kanker) in the same way as the f-word, both in negative and positive sense. Would you feel great if you are either a victim of cancer or somebody close to you died because of cancer and somebody uses the word as much as possible? Sure there are debates about those people being over-sensitive, but we still should be considerate.
I mean, if you were to say "kanker kutjood", translated freely to stupid Jew, where "Jood" is Dutch for jew (what "kut" means I leave behind, that's an offensive word in itself, but not as much as "kanker"), people really would have no respect for you.
Also, considering the games thus far only have a PG-13 rating, where the F-bomb can't be freely used, and this actually being a family board (up until Tales of Monkey Island, because that's when the crap hit the fan), I really feel like this board is starting to degenerate if we were to allow everybody to just freely use these words. I mean, I can understand a one-time slip, or a once in a long time occasion, but not in nearly 1 out of 10 topics I come to.
Sorry, but that's where I draw a line. I imagine Telltale Games to be family friendly, and I also expect the forums to be quite similar.
Yeah! Who needs anger. F
Sorry for hinting a swearing but no anger?! Anger is a wonderful emotion. It shows so much. You have to show your anger! What the hell man?! People need anger. If you don't get angered, then what the hell do you care about swear words?
How about "kankerhoer", which means "cancer whore"?
Seriously, I'm really getting sick of people completely missing the point. It makes people look like freaking idiots.
Besides, your post was kind of unclear on what your point was. All you really said was "these words are offensive". I was just sick of swearing and racial epitaphs being treated as the same thing.