All action still takes place on a 2D plane in ToMI.
Hell, even all Tomb Raider games, heck, all 3D platforming games on PC, actually use WASD. RTS games use WASD. Racing games, flight simulators, free roaming third person shooters. WASD isn't something just for first person shooters or simple 2D games. That's just a load of bull and you know it.
Definitely.
I've even played a football (soccer) game on the PC with the arrow keys, without any problems; same with ice hockey games. So you could play those games with WASD as well.
If you think like that, you can't buy half of the stuff they sell in the supermarket (the product might be great, but the packaging, oh my, I just can't open it easily, I'll buy an inferior product instead). It's a weird line of reasoning.
Oh.. I don't buy some products because of the packaging. Do you know that in some countries you can buy products by amazon without the plastic waste and with a small paper package instead? Some Online shops also send in reusable package. So why give money to a company using non-eco-friendly blisters?
Hell, even all Tomb Raider games, heck, all 3D platforming games on PC, actually use WASD. RTS games use WASD. Racing games, flight simulators, free roaming third person shooters. WASD isn't something just for first person shooters or simple 2D games. That's just a load of bull and you know it.
WASD is mostly used in first person or over the shoulder games. You can go where you are seeing something.
I played ToMI until a town. I could see a beach with a boot. Much room to get to the right. But no. It's just not possible to walk to a point which you see and which has a visible "path". On point and klick you wouldn't need to go to the dead end. You get a visible sign you can't walk to.
Same with the lawn. No visible reason why it's not walkable. In a point and klick there would be the chance for humor (like "Momy told me to keep off the grass!" (Served best with a jamaican looking person on the lawn). Instead you can see a technical problem, Guybrush just can't move and hangs before a lawn.
Oh.. I don't buy some products because of the packaging. Do you know that in some countries you can buy products by amazon without the plastic waste and with a small paper package instead? Some Online shops also send in reusable package. So why give money to a company using non-eco-friendly blisters?
Oh, that I can understand, if it's for the environment. But I was talking about not buying a product because you can't handle its interface - i.e. the packaging doesn't open as easily as you would want to.
All action still takes place on a 2D plane in ToMI.
Hell, even all Tomb Raider games, heck, all 3D platforming games on PC, actually use WASD. RTS games use WASD. Racing games, flight simulators, free roaming third person shooters. WASD isn't something just for first person shooters or simple 2D games. That's just a load of bull and you know it.
Indeed. Remember, WASD is just the arrow keys in a different place. Same with ESDF, TFGH, YGHJ, UHJK, IJKL, or any other configuration that some folks swear by. Anything you can do with arrow keys, you can do with WASD. (But not vice versa, unless you have spider-fingers and a penchant for creative keymapping, but I digress).
Same with the lawn. No visible reason why it's not walkable. In a point and klick there would be the chance for humor (like "Momy told me to keep off the grass!" (Served best with a jamaican looking person on the lawn). Instead you can see a technical problem, Guybrush just can't move and hangs before a lawn.
OMG, you're so right! And in the jungle maze, they could fill all the unwalkable spots with threatening dark-skinned natives, and Guybrush could say something totally hilarious, like "no thanks, it's not civilized over there." Damn those WASD controls for preventing Telltale from injecting racist stereotypes into their games!
It's also quite impossible to set areas that can trigger a hilarious response, despite the fact that you can set areas to trigger effects like that static electricity or even just walkable areas.
I'm having a hard time visualizing a scene in which the ground isn't visible. Are they common? The camera is fixed, so couldn't these kind of scenes just be avoided?
I'm having a hard time visualizing a scene in which the ground isn't visible. Are they common? The camera is fixed, so couldn't these kind of scenes just be avoided?
They don't try to avoid it, they try not to care of them. It's all for the ambiance, you know~
Oh, that I can understand, if it's for the environment. But I was talking about not buying a product because you can't handle its interface - i.e. the packaging doesn't open as easily as you would want to.
Nitpick, here, in your analogy... The way I see it, interface isn't like packaging. It's like, say, eating spaghetti with a spoon.
It's possible that the spaghetti is absolutely delicious, but chances are you'll get frustrated and stop trying. But there, you can't go grab a fork, or even go at it with your fingers. You have to do it with a spoon, or not at all.
What I mean is, interface isn't something that happens before you can play a game, like packaging is. It's something that happens during the game, from beginning to end, like what type of cutlery you use. It's how you eat the food/ play the game.
(I don't think ZQSD is nearly as frustrating as eating spaghetti with a spoon. It's an example.)
I'm having a hard time visualizing a scene in which the ground isn't visible. Are they common? The camera is fixed, so couldn't these kind of scenes just be avoided?
Actually, the idea is that the camera is not fixed, making the whole game feel a lot more cinematic. I'm struggling to think of examples of those shots in Tales, but I know they were used to great effect in Wallace & Gromit, where there were indeed shots where you didn't see the ground, but the camera was at eye-level with the characters.
Nitpick, here, in your analogy... The way I see it, interface isn't like packaging. It's like, say, eating spaghetti with a spoon.
It's possible that the spaghetti is absolutely delicious, but chances are you'll get frustrated and stop trying. But there, you can't go grab a fork, or even go at it with your fingers. You have to do it with a spoon, or not at all.
What I mean is, interface isn't something that happens before you can play a game, like packaging is. It's something that happens during the game, from beginning to end, like what type of cutlery you use. It's how you eat the food/ play the game.
Yes, you're probably right. Although sometimes the packaging does play a role during eating. With candy for instance, each individual piece needs to be unwrapped while you're eating your way through, thus the packaging can seriously impair your enjoyment of the candy. And in a way, packaging design and user interface design can be analogous, since both need to take into account usability.
But ultimately, your spaghetti-with-a-spoon analogy would be more correct. Maybe we can make it a little less drastic, and point to ice cream that comes packaged with a little spoon as an example. Brand X might taste great but have an inferior spoon (one made of splintery wood, or one that's not very ergonomic), while brand Y doesn't taste very good, but has a superior spoon.
I do use a spoon when I eat my spaghetti, if it's provided. I realize you can use the side of a deep plate to help you wind your spaghetti, but I find a spoon far more helpful. And if they're nice long noodles chopsticks work beautifully as well; just like eating a dry version of ramen. I also know people who can't imagine eating rice with a fork, or who prefer not to use utensils at all and eat from a communal plate with their hands.
Basically, people are different, and there is never any one "right" way to do anything. I say live and let live, and get back to your noodles before they get cold.
I do use a spoon when I eat my spaghetti, if it's provided. I realize you can use the side of a deep plate to help you wind your spaghetti, but I find a spoon far more helpful.
Oh, I do that too, I eat my spaghetti with a fork and spoon. But eating spaghetti with just a spoon and nothing else? Now there's a challenge...
Oh, that I can understand, if it's for the environment. But I was talking about not buying a product because you can't handle its interface - i.e. the packaging doesn't open as easily as you would want to.
Do you use the packaging the complete time? Try my example with cars. Renault had in old cars a revolver shifting (many people don't like it, but t was easier to build for eng. Guess what - people shifted to other cars.).
The iPod has only mediocre music capabilities. But an easy UI. Many people buy it. Even if there are a lot products which soudns better.
If i buy a cellphone i'll try it out. No matter of money, can be cheap or not. But the first point is that i wan't to handle it without thinking.
That is no matter if i can use something else or not. Heck, I wrote some SyncML component just to not think all the time about synchronising the phone. It should just work.
With WASD the UI gets more focus then the game. It is not contralable with one hand. It shows the technical difficulties the programmers had (like above). And it shows a lot of boring stuff. In many games (like Ankh, Fangame to Zak ...) you can run with doubleclick to a point. The scene is okay to be walked a first time. But for second time walking just streches the story. Puzzles with lot of walk don't bring the action in front, but the boring aspekt of getting from one place to another. That is dead time. Dead time which needs with WASD to spend active, even more if a camera shift happens and the character is going to a wrong direction. (And the sad thing is the need of getting an additional keyboard to the couch. Otherwise the TV pc is usable just with a mouse and a infrared remote, it's in my case mostly for movies, then for adventures. For other games i use a more modern pc, but adventures have a bit of wellness with no care for steering, only for story. If steering comes to a mind something is wrong. I also haven't understand why i could not just drag to items together to combine them instead the need of additional steps.).
Oh, I do that too, I eat my spaghetti with a fork and spoon. But eating spaghetti with just a spoon and nothing else? Now there's a challenge...
You can use the spoon to cut the spaghettis to pieces. The german E-Packs ( complete meal for a "soldier" for a day, only used during "camping" sessions) contains a spaghetti lookalike. If you ever need to eate one of these use the provided cookies for the task. They are a bit harder and you don't ned to cleanup a lot off stuff afterwards. Some people also think that it might be possible to build a bridge or a boat out of this cookies. Or to kill smaller animals like bears by throwing the cookies at them. Delicious taste with a bit butter flavour.
. Brand X might taste great but have an inferior spoon (one made of splintery wood, or one that's not very ergonomic), while brand Y doesn't taste very good, but has a superior spoon.
And now think that you have not only 2 brands, but 20 were some taste quite similiar. Would you still stay at the splintery unergonimic?
Would you buy a tv control with buttons on the back?
donut, next to the quote button is another little button with a piece of paper on it, quotation marks and a plus sign. This allows you to quote to more than one post at a time, click it, and when you get to the last post you want to quote click the regular quote button.
Also, we get it. You don't like the UI. There are other people who don't like the UI. There are also people who don't prefer one UI over another, and there are people who liked the UI in ToMI better than old fashioned point-and-click. At the end of the day Telltale decides how they make their own games, and since Tales was the strongest seller yet, they'll probably be building their future UI off of the Tales model.
But ultimately, your spaghetti-with-a-spoon analogy would be more correct. Maybe we can make it a little less drastic, and point to ice cream that comes packaged with a little spoon as an example. Brand X might taste great but have an inferior spoon (one made of splintery wood, or one that's not very ergonomic), while brand Y doesn't taste very good, but has a superior spoon.
Right. It was an example, but the possibilities are endless. Even with spaghetti, it could be that you do have a fork, but it's one of these plastic fork. Or it's too small, or too big. Your ice-cream example is good too.
And yes, I did mean with just a spoon, although I don't use any, I realise it's the "proper" way. (I don't use my plate either. I use gravity.)
Anyway, as Lena said, it shows that different people are used to different interfaces, while there isn't really a "right" one and a "wrong" one. (Although some might be more practical than others).
Actually, the idea is that the camera is not fixed, making the whole game feel a lot more cinematic. I'm struggling to think of examples of those shots in Tales, but I know they were used to great effect in Wallace & Gromit, where there were indeed shots where you didn't see the ground, but the camera was at eye-level with the characters.
I'm not sure we're on the same page. The camera in ToMI (to my knowledge) is not controlled by the player. Sure, maybe it moves but the game decide where it moves, so why not just move it to reasonable locations from where its visible where the player can go.
And in regards to "Telltale decides how to make their own game". I definitely agree with that. Nor are my feelings as strong about this as Donut's - I still enjoyed the games immensely and would buy anything else Monkey Island related Telltale ever makes. In fact, my appreciation for their games and general business model cannot be overstated.
That being said, despite it being "their game and their decision", I don't think there is any harm in constructive feedback. The only thing that detracts from my enjoyment of the game is the input method. W, A, S, D is "okay". I think point-n'-click would be better. ToMI is a very laid back game, and its very appropriate to play it in a leaned-back-with-one-hand way.
If its not an option and WASD is the way to go, that's okay too, but then it should really be possible to select dialogue options with the number keys - I mean my hand is like right there! (for some reason I seem to remember not being able to, but I could be wrong).
And don't get me started on the click-and-drag-to-walk thing. I'd be surprised if anyone at all uses that.
And don't get me started on the click-and-drag-to-walk thing. I'd be surprised if anyone at all uses that.
SURPRISE!
Actually, when I played Launch of the Screaming Narwhal, I could not seem to get used to the click-and-drag controls and I used the keyboard to move around instead.
I "forced" myself to use click-and-drag in The Siege of Spinner Cay and ended up loving it.
I never went back to the keyboard for subsequent episodes or thought that controlling Guybrush felt like work.
Once I finished Rise of the Pirate God, I decided to finally give the Wallace and Gromit games a try and I found myself missing the click-and-drag control scheme.
If my experience tells me anything, it's that I'm glad I gave click-and-drag a chance and did not give up after 10 minutes (even though in reality, I gave up on it for the duration of the first chapter!).
And don't get me started on the click-and-drag-to-walk thing. I'd be surprised if anyone at all uses that.
I did. For the whole game. I didn't realise you could use the arrow keys and even if I had, it would be too annoying to constantly move my hand from the keyboard to the mouse.
As for ZQSD (WASD for you people with QWERTY keyboards), I didn't realise it was possible either and probably wouldn't use it, as it would mean using my left hand, which tends to be already busy. Plus I don't have enough coordination for that. I know, that's sad.
And my brain, which can't type properly if the letters don't match what's being types, is equally unable to remember which way is up if it's not written on the key.
I know, it's sad.
That's another thing by the way. I find it distracting to be constantly looking away from the game to check which key I'm pressing. At least with my mouse I can see where it is on the screen.
Anyway. I still don't get why you couldn't click at the side of the screen to go that way. Lots of games do that, and if you need to move within a screen, it's to go towards a specific person or object and you can do that by clicking, right?
Oh, and since I can't remember anyone answering last time, do you know if the games are playable with a joystick? I don't want to buy one if I can't use it in the end.
As for ZQSD (WASD for you people with QWERTY keyboards), I didn't realise it was possible either and probably wouldn't use it, as it would mean using my left hand, which tends to be already busy.
That means you're either masticating or doing the unmentionable with your unmentionables.
why not just move it to reasonable locations from where its visible where the player can go.
Cinematographic reasons! It's just as important to have aesthetically pleasing shots in a video game as it is in a film. Especially in an adventure game, which is probably more like a movie than any other kind of game, non-standard camera positions can be used to great effect, making the game feel more dynamic than static.
I would occasionally use click and drag when my left hand was busy (usually smoking or drinking), and it was a little weird at first, but I got used to it. Sort of feels like you're dragging Guybrush around on a leash. My biggest gripe with click and drag was actually that there was no option to turn off the ring/arrow graphic that appears when you use it. It looks ugly and reminds me I'm playing a game. I like my UI as invisible as possible.
I'm also a dragger, and I have to say the UI is constantly improving. In Wallace and Gromit the pc kept moving in the direction of the last scene unless you let go of the mouse, and that was fixed with Tales. I'm sure the Telltales are tweaking it all the time, just like they're always tweaking the tool, or adding more visual effects or figuring how to better compress things, etc. The other thing you guys have to realize is this probably the twentieth or so thread about this topic in the last six months. It's been discussed a lot already, and donut made a thread on the exact same topic in the Sam and Max forum at the same time he made this one. I guess I'm just tired of hearing the same complaints over and over again, and I kinda feel bad for Yare, too. He keeps trying to explain to people why they're doing what they're doing on his own time even though it's not really part of his job. For someone who looks so grouchy, the man has the patience of a saint.
If I come across as a little short, I'm sorry. I am a little short (height wise as well in temperament, actually), but of course everyone has the right to express their opinion.
If I come across as a little short, I'm sorry. I am a little short (height wise as well in temperament, actually), but of course everyone has the right to express their opinion.
Yep. I have a strong opinion. Maybe part of my problem is that i'm using older games in emulators on mobile devices. There you have no wasd. Constant scratching on a smartphone display seems to be no good idea (played Hit the road again in ScummVM - point and click worked well with pen tipping). Think my next notebook will also be a tablet. Think gestures (point and klick or drag and click) could work on such a device, but would also constantly scratch the surface.
Heck, you could also play Hit the road with just a lightgun. ;-)
WASD seems to me like a replacement for a controller only. Not much flexibility for future use. And as you see Sony and Microsoft try to replace controllers (like Nintendo started with WII) with arm gestures. What would be easier for you in future: Contantly waving in directions or you point to the point where a character should do sth?
You can also see it as deciding on investing more money on technology not everyone will make use of or just sticking to controller movement.
I also find it very hypocritical of people to first bash the Nintendo Wii for its motion control which was and still is brought up as one of the reasons why people won't buy it, yet people applaud, praise, and even take it as innovative when Sony and Microsoft come with their own motion control system.
Then again I already lost my faith in gamers in general, so my opinion isn't completely unbiased.
I also find it very hypocritical of people to first bash the Nintendo Wii for its motion control which was and still is brought up as one of the reasons why people won't buy it, yet people applaud, praise, and even take it as innovative when Sony and Microsoft come with their own motion control system.
I see where you're coming from, but most people are criticizing the fact that the Wii's motion control is more "shake the controller randomly to do what a button press can do" and less "replicate your gestures on-screen". Whereas Sony and Microsoft seem to be trying to avoid that.
Of course, this is just my take on what I've read. I haven't played enough Wii games to form a stance myself.
I see where you're coming from, but most people are criticizing the fact that the Wii's motion control is more "shake the controller randomly to do what a button press can do" and less "replicate your gestures on-screen". Whereas Sony and Microsoft seem to be trying to avoid that.
Of course, this is just my take on what I've read. I haven't played enough Wii games to form a stance myself.
That's definitely the case with alot of people (myself included). The problem with the Wii is the lack of buttons to do otherwise.
Hey, since when did this thread turn into a fanboy debate? The Wii has plenty of buttons, it's all about what developers do with it. Just like with any other platform. Just pick the games and platforms you enjoy best, and try not to badmouth other systems unless you have played with them extensively. (For the record, I own a Wii and love it, don't have any experience with PS3 and Xbox 360, so I'm not going to say anything about those, other than that they have pretty graphics from what I've seen from screenshots. Unfortunately, I'm not rich enough to buy all three systems, or just two of them, for that matter. If I could, I would. It's all about the games, not the platforms.)
So anyway, we were talking about the PC control system... um... hmm... Lena_P, we need some pancakes in here to prevent escalation!
lugging a GCN everywhere is awkward, as opposed to my netbook
So, I used to lug my Gamecube around, and the only reason I don't now, is I have a Wii which doubles as a Gamecube, infact, I created a carrying case for every single one of my consoles, Wii, Gamecube, PS2, 360, all of it.
That means you're either masticating or doing the unmentionable with your unmentionables.
What? No! I'm usually eating, drinking, petting one of my cats, moving the other out of the desk, holding the phone, playing with a pen... Lots of things. None of them are unmentionable >.>
Which is the technical term of chewing on something.
Also, relying on an optional peripheral for your method of controlling is pretty much stupid for business reasons, especially for a company like Telltale Games. It's not that waving your arms won't work, but it's more that not everybody will have the peripherals, simply because they're either against the principle of using your limbs above shoulder length or because they just don't see it as a good investment.
It's the reason not every game uses Wii MotionPlus yet, or the Wii Balance Board. It is true more games will implement the former, but that's because it's a relatively affordable add-on, that, and some current games already pack with Wii MotionPlus for a relatively small added price. I don't see games using the Balance Board that often, and if they do, it won't be mandatory for most.
Comments
I've even played a football (soccer) game on the PC with the arrow keys, without any problems; same with ice hockey games. So you could play those games with WASD as well.
Oh.. I don't buy some products because of the packaging. Do you know that in some countries you can buy products by amazon without the plastic waste and with a small paper package instead? Some Online shops also send in reusable package. So why give money to a company using non-eco-friendly blisters?
WASD is mostly used in first person or over the shoulder games. You can go where you are seeing something.
I played ToMI until a town. I could see a beach with a boot. Much room to get to the right. But no. It's just not possible to walk to a point which you see and which has a visible "path". On point and klick you wouldn't need to go to the dead end. You get a visible sign you can't walk to.
Same with the lawn. No visible reason why it's not walkable. In a point and klick there would be the chance for humor (like "Momy told me to keep off the grass!" (Served best with a jamaican looking person on the lawn). Instead you can see a technical problem, Guybrush just can't move and hangs before a lawn.
Indeed. Remember, WASD is just the arrow keys in a different place. Same with ESDF, TFGH, YGHJ, UHJK, IJKL, or any other configuration that some folks swear by. Anything you can do with arrow keys, you can do with WASD. (But not vice versa, unless you have spider-fingers and a penchant for creative keymapping, but I digress).
OMG, you're so right! And in the jungle maze, they could fill all the unwalkable spots with threatening dark-skinned natives, and Guybrush could say something totally hilarious, like "no thanks, it's not civilized over there." Damn those WASD controls for preventing Telltale from injecting racist stereotypes into their games!
I'm having a hard time visualizing a scene in which the ground isn't visible. Are they common? The camera is fixed, so couldn't these kind of scenes just be avoided?
They don't try to avoid it, they try not to care of them. It's all for the ambiance, you know~
Nitpick, here, in your analogy... The way I see it, interface isn't like packaging. It's like, say, eating spaghetti with a spoon.
It's possible that the spaghetti is absolutely delicious, but chances are you'll get frustrated and stop trying. But there, you can't go grab a fork, or even go at it with your fingers. You have to do it with a spoon, or not at all.
What I mean is, interface isn't something that happens before you can play a game, like packaging is. It's something that happens during the game, from beginning to end, like what type of cutlery you use. It's how you eat the food/ play the game.
(I don't think ZQSD is nearly as frustrating as eating spaghetti with a spoon. It's an example.)
How hard is it to use the freaking combine system?
Yes, you're probably right. Although sometimes the packaging does play a role during eating. With candy for instance, each individual piece needs to be unwrapped while you're eating your way through, thus the packaging can seriously impair your enjoyment of the candy. And in a way, packaging design and user interface design can be analogous, since both need to take into account usability.
But ultimately, your spaghetti-with-a-spoon analogy would be more correct. Maybe we can make it a little less drastic, and point to ice cream that comes packaged with a little spoon as an example. Brand X might taste great but have an inferior spoon (one made of splintery wood, or one that's not very ergonomic), while brand Y doesn't taste very good, but has a superior spoon.
Er... what were we discussing again?
WITH A SPOON!
Basically, people are different, and there is never any one "right" way to do anything. I say live and let live, and get back to your noodles before they get cold.
Do you use the packaging the complete time? Try my example with cars. Renault had in old cars a revolver shifting (many people don't like it, but t was easier to build for eng. Guess what - people shifted to other cars.).
The iPod has only mediocre music capabilities. But an easy UI. Many people buy it. Even if there are a lot products which soudns better.
If i buy a cellphone i'll try it out. No matter of money, can be cheap or not. But the first point is that i wan't to handle it without thinking.
That is no matter if i can use something else or not. Heck, I wrote some SyncML component just to not think all the time about synchronising the phone. It should just work.
With WASD the UI gets more focus then the game. It is not contralable with one hand. It shows the technical difficulties the programmers had (like above). And it shows a lot of boring stuff. In many games (like Ankh, Fangame to Zak ...) you can run with doubleclick to a point. The scene is okay to be walked a first time. But for second time walking just streches the story. Puzzles with lot of walk don't bring the action in front, but the boring aspekt of getting from one place to another. That is dead time. Dead time which needs with WASD to spend active, even more if a camera shift happens and the character is going to a wrong direction. (And the sad thing is the need of getting an additional keyboard to the couch. Otherwise the TV pc is usable just with a mouse and a infrared remote, it's in my case mostly for movies, then for adventures. For other games i use a more modern pc, but adventures have a bit of wellness with no care for steering, only for story. If steering comes to a mind something is wrong. I also haven't understand why i could not just drag to items together to combine them instead the need of additional steps.).
You can use the spoon to cut the spaghettis to pieces. The german E-Packs ( complete meal for a "soldier" for a day, only used during "camping" sessions) contains a spaghetti lookalike. If you ever need to eate one of these use the provided cookies for the task. They are a bit harder and you don't ned to cleanup a lot off stuff afterwards. Some people also think that it might be possible to build a bridge or a boat out of this cookies. Or to kill smaller animals like bears by throwing the cookies at them. Delicious taste with a bit butter flavour.
Would you buy a tv control with buttons on the back?
Also, we get it. You don't like the UI. There are other people who don't like the UI. There are also people who don't prefer one UI over another, and there are people who liked the UI in ToMI better than old fashioned point-and-click. At the end of the day Telltale decides how they make their own games, and since Tales was the strongest seller yet, they'll probably be building their future UI off of the Tales model.
Right. It was an example, but the possibilities are endless. Even with spaghetti, it could be that you do have a fork, but it's one of these plastic fork. Or it's too small, or too big. Your ice-cream example is good too.
And yes, I did mean with just a spoon, although I don't use any, I realise it's the "proper" way. (I don't use my plate either. I use gravity.)
Anyway, as Lena said, it shows that different people are used to different interfaces, while there isn't really a "right" one and a "wrong" one. (Although some might be more practical than others).
I'm not sure we're on the same page. The camera in ToMI (to my knowledge) is not controlled by the player. Sure, maybe it moves but the game decide where it moves, so why not just move it to reasonable locations from where its visible where the player can go.
And in regards to "Telltale decides how to make their own game". I definitely agree with that. Nor are my feelings as strong about this as Donut's - I still enjoyed the games immensely and would buy anything else Monkey Island related Telltale ever makes. In fact, my appreciation for their games and general business model cannot be overstated.
That being said, despite it being "their game and their decision", I don't think there is any harm in constructive feedback. The only thing that detracts from my enjoyment of the game is the input method. W, A, S, D is "okay". I think point-n'-click would be better. ToMI is a very laid back game, and its very appropriate to play it in a leaned-back-with-one-hand way.
If its not an option and WASD is the way to go, that's okay too, but then it should really be possible to select dialogue options with the number keys - I mean my hand is like right there! (for some reason I seem to remember not being able to, but I could be wrong).
And don't get me started on the click-and-drag-to-walk thing. I'd be surprised if anyone at all uses that.
SURPRISE!
Actually, when I played Launch of the Screaming Narwhal, I could not seem to get used to the click-and-drag controls and I used the keyboard to move around instead.
I "forced" myself to use click-and-drag in The Siege of Spinner Cay and ended up loving it.
I never went back to the keyboard for subsequent episodes or thought that controlling Guybrush felt like work.
Once I finished Rise of the Pirate God, I decided to finally give the Wallace and Gromit games a try and I found myself missing the click-and-drag control scheme.
If my experience tells me anything, it's that I'm glad I gave click-and-drag a chance and did not give up after 10 minutes (even though in reality, I gave up on it for the duration of the first chapter!).
I did. For the whole game. I didn't realise you could use the arrow keys and even if I had, it would be too annoying to constantly move my hand from the keyboard to the mouse.
As for ZQSD (WASD for you people with QWERTY keyboards), I didn't realise it was possible either and probably wouldn't use it, as it would mean using my left hand, which tends to be already busy. Plus I don't have enough coordination for that. I know, that's sad.
And my brain, which can't type properly if the letters don't match what's being types, is equally unable to remember which way is up if it's not written on the key.
I know, it's sad.
That's another thing by the way. I find it distracting to be constantly looking away from the game to check which key I'm pressing. At least with my mouse I can see where it is on the screen.
Anyway. I still don't get why you couldn't click at the side of the screen to go that way. Lots of games do that, and if you need to move within a screen, it's to go towards a specific person or object and you can do that by clicking, right?
Oh, and since I can't remember anyone answering last time, do you know if the games are playable with a joystick? I don't want to buy one if I can't use it in the end.
I would, but I don't know what colour "surprised" is.
If I come across as a little short, I'm sorry. I am a little short (height wise as well in temperament, actually), but of course everyone has the right to express their opinion.
Yep. I have a strong opinion. Maybe part of my problem is that i'm using older games in emulators on mobile devices. There you have no wasd. Constant scratching on a smartphone display seems to be no good idea (played Hit the road again in ScummVM - point and click worked well with pen tipping). Think my next notebook will also be a tablet. Think gestures (point and klick or drag and click) could work on such a device, but would also constantly scratch the surface.
Heck, you could also play Hit the road with just a lightgun. ;-)
WASD seems to me like a replacement for a controller only. Not much flexibility for future use. And as you see Sony and Microsoft try to replace controllers (like Nintendo started with WII) with arm gestures. What would be easier for you in future: Contantly waving in directions or you point to the point where a character should do sth?
I also find it very hypocritical of people to first bash the Nintendo Wii for its motion control which was and still is brought up as one of the reasons why people won't buy it, yet people applaud, praise, and even take it as innovative when Sony and Microsoft come with their own motion control system.
Then again I already lost my faith in gamers in general, so my opinion isn't completely unbiased.
I see where you're coming from, but most people are criticizing the fact that the Wii's motion control is more "shake the controller randomly to do what a button press can do" and less "replicate your gestures on-screen". Whereas Sony and Microsoft seem to be trying to avoid that.
Of course, this is just my take on what I've read. I haven't played enough Wii games to form a stance myself.
Yow. Tone down the hostility, man. 'Twas just an observation.
That's definitely the case with alot of people (myself included). The problem with the Wii is the lack of buttons to do otherwise.
So anyway, we were talking about the PC control system... um... hmm... Lena_P, we need some pancakes in here to prevent escalation!
So, I used to lug my Gamecube around, and the only reason I don't now, is I have a Wii which doubles as a Gamecube, infact, I created a carrying case for every single one of my consoles, Wii, Gamecube, PS2, 360, all of it.
I'm not offended by this in the slightest. In fact, this is exactly why I don't own a Wii.
What? No! I'm usually eating, drinking, petting one of my cats, moving the other out of the desk, holding the phone, playing with a pen... Lots of things. None of them are unmentionable >.>
Which is the technical term of chewing on something.
Also, relying on an optional peripheral for your method of controlling is pretty much stupid for business reasons, especially for a company like Telltale Games. It's not that waving your arms won't work, but it's more that not everybody will have the peripherals, simply because they're either against the principle of using your limbs above shoulder length or because they just don't see it as a good investment.
It's the reason not every game uses Wii MotionPlus yet, or the Wii Balance Board. It is true more games will implement the former, but that's because it's a relatively affordable add-on, that, and some current games already pack with Wii MotionPlus for a relatively small added price. I don't see games using the Balance Board that often, and if they do, it won't be mandatory for most.