Pleaaaase
Please if you make future games use an interface like with Bone or Sam'n'Max. I bought Monkey Island, but haven't played the game longer then ~10 minutes just because my personal dislike of the user interface.
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The interface isn't terrible, I mean it personally is a lot better than some of the new adventure games out there.
Well, that's YOUR problem. Nearly everyone gets along with it very well. Me too.
Telltale used this magnificently in Wallace & Gromit, to achieve camera angles that they couldn't have otherwise, and they continue that practice in Tales of Monkey Island. It really makes for a much more cinematic experience. And you can usually click on something to have Guybrush walk over, it really isn't that different from the point 'n' click controls in Telltale's previous games.
Well, I wish it wasn't necessary to click on things -that Guybrush has a line to say- to walk. I mean, they could've implemented all that three gameplay variations in the game.
Off topic, we have an old saying around here, goes like "having the hunger of a monkey" which is used to point out one's greed. Strange, but kinda cool.
That's basically the concensus from the S+M thread that dealt with this.
Also I agree, while WASD isnt my first choice for adventure-game-movement, once you get used to it, it's useable... though I like the original 'click to walk' instead...
ToMI can be played with gamepad? GGGWWWWWHHHHHHHZZZZZZZ
http://xpadder.com/
Iused to do things like this, but my first gamepad only had 2 buttons, and my second one had a very bad D-pad, so I got turned off to the idea...
Though now that I have a PS3 controller that I can hack to use with PC it might be an option again.......
If the ground is not visible, then instead of casting a ray you must cast a plane. The plane you cast will intersect with the ground plane (off-screen). The intersection of 2 planes in this case would be a line. A line doesn't do us much good, since we need a point for the character to walk to. A line is an infinite set of points.
You could try some heuristic like "farthest point on line from camera" or "midpoint of line", but these fail to function as expected in all but the simplest navigation meshes (convex polygons). We're also building environments where the ground is not comprised of a single plane, meaning these heuristics would probably wind up being incorrect more often than not.
The benefit of WASD and Click+Drag is that they operate in 3D world-space. You can move the character through the world even if he's not on-screen at all. Point+Click operates in 2D screen space which makes it far less robust.
In short, if you want to build your game around making Point+Click work in all cases, you can certainly do so. Our design and cinematography folks decided we'd rather lift that restriction.
Ideally you want to use something like a Wii Nunchuck in your left hand to move the character and the mouse to click on stuff. I think that would work much better than the current systems. Then again, it'd be a bit fiddly to set up.
From my experiance with the two versions, the Nunchuck isn't all that much better than WASD controls, once you get used to them.
So why should I bother to play something which makes work work to play? Just because a designer wants a camera setting i even don't care about? Even freeware games like Beyond time and space get better... So why go back in usability for perspective?
And I was talking about a Nunchuck-like substitute for PCs, in case I wasn't all that clear. Think about it - leaning back with the Nunchuck in your left hand moving Guybrush about, while using your right hand to move the move around and click on stuff. That's a good control system.
You shouldn't. But since you prioritize control details over actual game design and art direction, there's nothing I can say here to help you.
Wok instead of play?
You mean this?
Also, how much more "work" is using WASD? For me, it's been a staple of gaming ever since the very first Half-Life came with it. In fact, when I first played with ToMI, I actually used WASD as my preferred method. It's far less straining than using point & click, and is more precise at where you want Guybrush to stand.
Just try and be grateful for the game. If you don't like it, don't play it. And maybe next time try the demo first.
Well, i've got a laptop, so i can lean back anyway:p
But, i also have a wireless keyboard/mouse, which works just aswell (you'd be surprised at how well a laser mouse works on a duvet cover!)
You can also connect your wiimote/nunchuck up to your laptop (via bluetooth) And use a utility such as Glovepie to use it as WASD/pointer.
Oh, I do the same thing with cars. The first IDrive was complete nonsens so i switched from BMW to Mercedes. For me the usage of sth is the point which i really use through lifetime of a product.
In game terms: Earth 2160 may have looked shiny in 3D and had a lot of possibilities, but Comamnd and Conquer had the simplier user interace at the time. Guess which game had made it to the nth"season"?
I understand that you put a lot of time and effort into the product, but please also understand that the end product is totally useless for me. ( and in the end I buy products for me, not for the designer or for other users, Therefore I'm just no longer the target audience, as written before, there are enough other possibilities ).
Why do you think that Escape from Monkey Island is disliked by MI fans and GrimE stopped fans from playign LucasArts adventures?
Have you seen the secret of Monkey Island Special Edition? You will notice that the presentation is modern, but it's much more work for the player (Strg, Alt). Afteral higher score on Steam which a 5th of the ToMI price. Without camera wobbling, but with mouse movement (and in 2D). How could that be if its all about WASD and Camera?
Do you want to tell a tale or present 3D scenes?
Well, I do agree that controls are important, but GrimE didn't stop fans playing LucasArts adventure games at all. Grim Fandango was the first game to use it, and EMI was the second and last game to use it. Which was where fans stopped playing LucasArts adventures. Why? Well, obviously because there were no more LucasArts adventures being released.
Anyway, the TellTale engine is constantly being developed. Who knows how Sam and Max Episode 3 will control. I'm sure we've not seen the last of control changes yet, and I feel certain that at some point, they'll find a way to incorporate classic point'n'click controls again.
You're grasping at straws here to make your point. The truth is, many people loved Tales of Monkey Island. The truth also is, there are many games that use WASD controls, and I don't hear people complaining about those. Oblivion for instance, and it got universal critical acclaim. If you want to dismiss a product because of its user interface, go ahead, that's your choice. To me however, that seems a bit shortsighted. If you think like that, you can't buy half of the stuff they sell in the supermarket (the product might be great, but the packaging, oh my, I just can't open it easily, I'll buy an inferior product instead). It's a weird line of reasoning.
You've built your argument on a false dichotomy.
To be fair, WASD controls were invented just for games like Oblivion. WASD controls doesn't suit all genres automatically. In many cases, WASD keys are the poor substitute for a controller, like football games. Although the WASD keys are (imo) the best way to play TOMI, I think the controls are far from perfect, and I think having a pure point'n'click interface works this genre much better. If I had to choose between a more cinematic experience and better controls, I would probably have preferred better controls. TOMI offers a more cinematic approach to adventure games than for example COMI, but comes at the expense of poin'n'click. I personally think the approach was too anonymous to really call it a fair trade, but I'm sure there are others who feels otherwise.
I agree. If anyone things WASD are perfect, try emulation, specifically anything designed for a control-stick like Zelda (No, I didnt pirate them, I own the original media, but lugging a GCN everywhere is awkward, as opposed to my netbook)
I feel it's a very delicate balance. For me plot is top priority. Anyone who wants awkward controls to get used to shoudl play Torment (right-click every time you want to change your attack (in real-time) or any time you want to cast a spell --- BUT items must be handled in a menu. IF the plot is good enough though, some of us will accept awkward controls
Accept, yes, because I don't really have much choice. But am I happy with it? No.
if I understand correctly, your saying it only matters if the game's mediocre. If it's a good game you'll put up with the controls, but if the game itself isn't good you wont bother?
I can respect that. I have a higher tollerance for it as long as the plot interests me at all, but I agree at a certain point the controls destroy the experiance.
Sorry to say this, but that's a load of balls.
No, I'm saying that good controls can tip me over to complete a decent* game. I don't need to play just decent games when I can play excellent games. Also, good controls can turn a decent game into an excellent game. Great controls will always provide a better experience in ANY game, than a game with less than stellar controls. Instead of enjoying a good game with bad controls, I keep thinking "what if" and I'm annoyed that the controls aren't as good as the rest of the game. Having the words "wasted potential" lurking in my head all the while I play the game, wishing the controls were better. The experience may still not be too bad, but it would be so much better with decent controls as well.
*not mediocre, which would be something around the 5/10 mark, as opposed to a 7/10, as I mentioned in my post.
Anyway, level of tolerance is obviously on a game to game basis. There are games I feel strongly for, where the level of tolerance is higher (TOMI would be one of them), and there are games I really don't care to force myself playing if the controls are bad. TOMI controls aren't bad though, only somewhat unnecessary, imo. Like combining items, not having a proper "examine" command, the method of opening the inventory (we've had more than one button on the mice a loooooong time now, TellTale), and the drag'n'click interface is just clumsy. Things that once was done in one step, now needs two or three steps or four steps. That's not streamlining, that's overcomplicating things for absolutely no good reason. I can buy the excuse for not being able to use classic poin'n'click for moving, but there's certainly no excuse for many of the other things (biggest offender being combining items).
The interface of combining items presented in ToMI, is a smooth-going well-done addition, if you ask me. I don't know you, but in earlier games, it always annoyed me how I can't pick up another item before dropping what I have in my hand. I have to release it by pressing right-click. With this new system, it's not required to do so. Everything can be done with the left-click, which I found to be more important than combining items being a job with 5 steps rather than 3.
All action still takes place on a 2D plane in ToMI.
Hell, even all Tomb Raider games, heck, all 3D platforming games on PC, actually use WASD. RTS games use WASD. Racing games, flight simulators, free roaming third person shooters. WASD isn't something just for first person shooters or simple 2D games. That's just a load of bull and you know it.