and big the cat sucks no matter what. Face it, Sonic Adventure 1 was much better than sonic Adventure 2. It looked much better, it played better. it felt more like a find your way to do the task given instead of race to the finish line. and every storyline was different in gameplay.
SA2 looked horrible compared to it, the story was very OMG LETS THROW IN THIS THING NOW, and both storylines are Race then shoot then hunt
I'm just not a fan of any of the 3D Sonics except the WiiS2 version of Unleashed, which I love(d). Multiple paths, maintaining speed without clipping issues, lack of annoying entourage (Chip excluded), ability to actually get an S rank... I thought it was a great little game.
I also thought SA2 was better then SA1, but then I only played the Gamecube versions, so I may be slightly biased there. Whatever.
I've only played the Gamecube versions too, so it's about all of our arrogant opinions (myself included) we are talking about a video game series after all, we are being to critical
I don't know you guys, but platformer genre is what I like the most, even more than adventure games. And, well, my avatar may be a giveaway, but it was always the good ol' Sandwich games that are always my favorite platformers...
I would bet my Little brother is looking forward to this, he is a real Sonic fan.
He has played Sonic Unleashed to death, and he's even got that one for the Wii where you use a sword. (I am not a real Sonic fan my self, so I don't know what that game is called). So I guess I will see this running on the TV in the future as well
I would bet my Little brother is looking forward to this, he is a real Sonic fan.
He has played Sonic Unleashed to death, and he's even got that one for the Wii where you use a sword. (I am not a real Sonic fan my self, so I don't know what that game is called). So I guess I will see this running on the TV in the future as well
Let's see, that would be 'Sonic and the Black Knight". Its ok, its hard to keep track when you have at least one Sonic game for almost 20 systems.
Not that I know of. I think the iPhone levels make use of the tilt function - so I'm guessing it'll be a special stage... the rotating stage in Sonic The Hedgehog, ring tunnel in Sonic 2 and chequered ball of Sonic 3 would all work I think, particularly the first two.
Let's see, that would be 'Sonic and the Black Knight". Its ok, its hard to keep track when you have at least one Sonic game for almost 20 systems.
My brother has them all as far as I know, bought the multi pack with all the old ones for PS2, and he's got Sonic Rider 1 and 2. And ofc what I mentioned before, I am just not a Sonic fan my self, so I don't see why I need to keep track of the names
Fixed, and I agree, that is defenently not a good level idea(i thought it was all classic sonic)
I'm crossing all my crossable body parts that it's somehow fake. I don't see how anyone with a braincell could think that would work. It was mildly irritating in the 8-bit versions of Sonic 2 but at least there was no rotating to deal with.
Its name's gay and it has another species of flying midgets which leave straight lines of colors out of their asses during flight, much like how Powerpuff Girls do.
It's hard to fine the trailer of this game by using the searchbar of Youtube, since the videos that contain girlish whines of toddlers -who hate/love fancharacters that are simply the palette swapped versions of canonical characters- have more views and therefore they are presented before and proven to be more important than an official teaser of an officially announced game.
Did you not see how awkward it was? Although I do remember reading that those levels may appear on the IPhone, which makes sense, given how it's touch-screen interface works. Just rotate the phone to move the cart.
Did you not see how awkward it was? Although I do remember reading that those levels may appear on the IPhone, which makes sense, given how it's touch-screen interface works. Just rotate the phone to move the cart.
Awkward? What is awkward about it? If you're weak enough to get dizzy by the fact that LEVEL itself moves instead of Sonic, you shouldn't play Sonic in the first place. Sonic is a platformer making use of speed and rotation effects for its general visuality.
It was nice to see something new. It even looked fun, it was a really simple idea that actually requires you to think about it while playing it through. And yeah, not much to my surprise, it's taken away by so called FANS because it's not "SONIC" enough.
Awkward? What is awkward about it? If you're weak enough to get dizzy by the fact that LEVEL itself moves instead of Sonic, you shouldn't play Sonic in the first place. Sonic is a platformer making use of speed and rotation effects for its general visuality.
It was nice to see something new. It even looked fun, it was a really simple idea that actually requires you to think about it while playing it through. And yeah, not much to my surprise, it's taken away by so called FANS because it's not "SONIC" enough.
Perhaps it was the fault of the player but I just thought the idea was better than the actual result. The cart looked jerky and awkward to control, rather than fast paced and fun. Maybe it would have looked better if it had been one of those (perhaps overused) sections where you press the buttons shown on screen to advance along the track. That way the animation would remain fluid and it'd still be challenging.
I'm glad they removed it. If they like the idea they can use it in a future Sonic game that isn't following on from the original trilogy. I don't mind them adding new ideas - Sonic 2 introduced Tails and the spin attack, Sonic 3 brought us additional power-ups and Knuckles - I'm just not sure that particular minecart had a place in Sonic 4.
It was nice to see something new. It even looked fun, it was a really simple idea that actually requires you to think about it while playing it through. And yeah, not much to my surprise, it's taken away by so called FANS because it's not "SONIC" enough.
It was removed because it looked terrible, the fans said so and Sega, for once, actually listened.
Controlling a level, rather than a character, is incredibly awkward (see Lucidity for a not-too-dissimilar example), especially in a game where in every other level the player is controlling the character. Gameplay shifts are not what Sonic needs right now (Unleashed, I'm looking at you), especially when the video showing it off looked like it would be incredibly frustrating to play.
If the level had stayed the same and we'd been controlling Sonic in the minecart (in a similar style to Donkey Kong Country), I feel it would be much better and more in keeping with the rest of the game, as well as a nice throwback to the Master System games. Maybe that's what they're doing now. Who knows?
It was removed because it looked terrible, the fans said so and Sega, for once, actually listened.
Oh shut up, SEGA does NOTHING but listening to those so called fans these days. Well, except for coming up with the thought process of the majority of Sonic Colors.
They listen. They listen to y'all, because they have ZERO creativity. They had to turn crappy fanfictions into actual games, they had to make monstrocities of games that mixes both 2D and 3D because people wanted Sonic to go back to its roots "but not that much", then they went all 2D because less people started to even care about Sonic they had to pull a Megaman out of their asses.
Sonic Colors on the other hand WAS good but not THAT good since the hype on it is over, too. Also, I don't give two shits about Sonic 4 episodes because they listen to 6 year olds you call fans.
Oh shut up, SEGA does NOTHING but listening to those so called fans these days. Well, except for the majority of Sonic Colors.
They listen. They listen to y'all, because they have ZERO creativity. They had to turn crappy fanfictions into actual games, they had to make monstrocities of games that mixes both 2D and 3D because people wanted Sonic to go back to its roots "but not that much", then they went all 2D because less people started to even care about Sonic they had to pull a Megaman out of their asses.
Sonic Colors on the other hand WAS good but not THAT good since the hype on it is over, too. Also, I don't give two shits about Sonic 4 episodes because they listen to 6 year olds you call fans.
If there was a thumbs down button, I'd so press the thumbs up button.
That's why I hate gamers, Sonic "fans" in general.
Oh shut up, SEGA does NOTHING but listening to those so called fans these days. Well, except for coming up with the thought process of the majority of Sonic Colors.
They listen. They listen to y'all, because they have ZERO creativity. They had to turn crappy fanfictions into actual games, they had to make monstrocities of games that mixes both 2D and 3D because people wanted Sonic to go back to its roots "but not that much", then they went all 2D because less people started to even care about Sonic they had to pull a Megaman out of their asses.
Sonic Colors on the other hand WAS good but not THAT good since the hype on it is over, too. Also, I don't give two shits about Sonic 4 episodes because they listen to 6 year olds you call fans.
Wow. Digging up a four month old thread just to call me an idiot. Thanks.
Look, if you want to rant about how Sega has lost the plot when it comes to Sonic games, then fine. Do so. I disagree, but that's not the point. You don't need to resurrect a thread that's died off (something I often end up doing. I'm not sure I should be proud of that fact) and insult me while saying a bunch of incredibly negative anti-fanboyism. It's simply not called for and really won't win you many friends.
Right. Now to respond.
I've played both Sonic 4 Ep 1 and Sonic Colours and I can safely say they're the best Sonic games Sega have made in a good while. Both have their flaws - S4Ep1's controls feel too sticky and awkward for it to really feel like a proper sequel to the Genesis games, and Colours has... well, the 'colours' of the title (Wisps, if we're being picky) which were a little too gimmicky. But they were still fun, and they still keep me playing them to this day.
Zero creativity? I thought Sonic '06 was pretty creative. It wasn't good, but there were a lot of imaginative ideas about it. And yes, the plots were a mess, but "crappy fanfictions"? I think you're just venting here, so I won't touch that particular comment, aside from saying that it's not fan-fiction if the guys who make the games actually come up with it. That makes it canon, much as we all wish it weren't.
The only games that mix 2D and 3D are Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colours, so I assume you're referring to them when you insult Sega for trying an interesting mix of two different styles. I thought it worked pretty well in the WiiS2 version of Unleashed. Not so much for the PS360 version though.
As for copying Megaman... there have been 2D Sonic games for years (the Rush series on the DS, for example, or the Sonic Advance trilogy on the GBA) running alongside the 3D ones. If Sega realizes that fans like those more than the 3D games, how is it copying Megaman if they decide to do a DLC-style 2D Sonic game? Because it's on modern machines? Because it's downloadable? If something is good (as the Rush series was) and it's well-liked by fans, making more games in the same style is not copying someone else, it's good business sense!
Sonic Colours isn't perfect, but it's still a pretty good game. If you don't think so, fair enough. But given that the MetaCritic score is 77, I think most people will agree that it's a fairly good game, hype or no hype. Incidentally, the MetaCritic score for S4Ep1 is 72, and that's the lowest of all three consoles it came out for, so even if you don't give a crap about it, plenty of others do.
And honestly, 6-year olds these days can't play Sonic for crap. Not that they'd want to, since they're too busy killing each other in Call of Duty.
Look. Neither game is/was perfect, and neither is Sega. But they're getting better. Took long enough, but it's happening. Sonic 4 Episode 2 (Attack of the Clones) is going to have a second character, probably Tails, which'll be nice. If you still don't care, then fine. Don't bother those who do.
Wow. Digging up a four month old thread just to call me an idiot. Thanks.
Look, if you want to rant about how Sega has lost the plot when it comes to Sonic games, then fine. Do so. I disagree, but that's not the point. You don't need to resurrect a thread that's died off (something I often end up doing. I'm not sure I should be proud of that fact) and insult me while saying a bunch of incredibly negative anti-fanboyism. It's simply not called for and really won't win you many friends.
I'm not calling you anything o_O What, you feel insulted because I insulted "fans" in general? If that's so, I'm sorry. If anything I'm a Sonic fan myself, it should've been apparent that I have an uncreative looking fancharacter I used in my avatar for a year or even longer, but yeah you're not my secretary or you don't hold my guide of what I like or which avatar I use, so yeah, I'm sorry for that too. As for me waiting for 4 months... Well, whenever I log onto forums first thing I do is to check New Posts. Some days I check it oftenly and some days I only check the first page of threads. If I do that the next day, the threads that I didn't check but were in the New Posts page (if there is no new post at all), goes way back in pages that I never check because it's the pile of the threads which are about things that I don't know or I don't want to discuss. How did I end up seeing this thread? The other thread about a stuffed hedgehog had this thread's link and I clicked on it knowing that I did go into a discussion in it, then saw your response which was long unanswered. And yeah I disagree with its contents so I just let it out. Yeah, I should've started easy, but yeah I didn't also want to explain my life story (like how I'm doing atm) before responding to you too.
With "fans", I mean the tards doing many fanfictions and shittyass characters trying to fit theirselves or their cheap villains into the canon story, playing the most horrid game with their tongue sticking out and only hating on a game when a majority does so; which is always about "IT'S NOT SONIC ENOUGH BECAUSE HE DOES NOT RUN :'<"
As for "shut up"... Iunno, I thought you were trolling there Since I was 99% sure we did that convo, you know. I repeat myself over and over about how fans actually destroyed their most loved franchise and I'm in a phase where anyone says "they're not listening to fans!" I go all "OH FUCK YOU". But yeah you disagree with it anyway. I'll try to respond to you as kind and productive as possible, it's my fault that you get offended.
I've played both Sonic 4 Ep 1 and Sonic Colours and I can safely say they're the best Sonic games Sega have made in a good while. Both have their flaws - S4Ep1's controls feel too sticky and awkward for it to really feel like a proper sequel to the Genesis games, and Colours has... well, the 'colours' of the title (Wisps, if we're being picky) which were a little too gimmicky. But they were still fun, and they still keep me playing them to this day.
Zero creativity? I thought Sonic '06 was pretty creative. It wasn't good, but there were a lot of imaginative ideas about it. And yes, the plots were a mess, but "crappy fanfictions"? I think you're just venting here, so I won't touch that particular comment, aside from saying that it's not fan-fiction if the guys who make the games actually come up with it. That makes it canon, much as we all wish it weren't.
The only games that mix 2D and 3D are Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colours, so I assume you're referring to them when you insult Sega for trying an interesting mix of two different styles. I thought it worked pretty well in the WiiS2 version of Unleashed. Not so much for the PS360 version though.
As for copying Megaman... there have been 2D Sonic games for years (the Rush series on the DS, for example, or the Sonic Advance trilogy on the GBA) running alongside the 3D ones. If Sega realizes that fans like those more than the 3D games, how is it copying Megaman if they decide to do a DLC-style 2D Sonic game? Because it's on modern machines? Because it's downloadable? If something is good (as the Rush series was) and it's well-liked by fans, making more games in the same style is not copying someone else, it's good business sense!
Sonic Colours isn't perfect, but it's still a pretty good game. If you don't think so, fair enough. But given that the MetaCritic score is 77, I think most people will agree that it's a fairly good game, hype or no hype. Incidentally, the MetaCritic score for S4Ep1 is 72, and that's the lowest of all three consoles it came out for, so even if you don't give a crap about it, plenty of others do.
And honestly, 6-year olds these days can't play Sonic for crap. Not that they'd want to, since they're too busy killing each other in Call of Duty.
Look. Neither game is/was perfect, and neither is Sega. But they're getting better. Took long enough, but it's happening. Sonic 4 Episode 2 (Attack of the Clones) is going to have a second character, probably Tails, which'll be nice. If you still don't care, then fine. Don't bother those who do.
And definitely don't insult us.
Right right.
The flaws of Sonic 4 includes trying to have too much nostalgia. The game only has redeeming qualities of nostalgia whereas it should've been also about how fun to play. But it's not fun, you know, although gameplay was what we STILL like about the old games. Instead they gave jerky controls, I mean, they can't even get gameplay right in a 2D Sonic game. As for visuals, they look off even for a simplistic game. "It should have been completely 2d", "Why doesn't it have check patterns like in Green Hill Zone" or "Why doesn't Sonic have black pupils" are all bullshit but if they actually go for the third dimension, they could actually try for better animations. Even in the older 2D versions they did give importance to that. Right now it still looks undone. As for level designs they don't really want to get imaginative so they just recycle old themes (people love them, yes, but that means they can go play Sonic 3 too) and the reason why I go all angry about the minecart level is because it was NEW. They actually try to add little gimmicks that may differentiate things a little, you know, therefore this game can be significant in itself instead of being a mimickery of what they did in the past. But people said NO to that, and they listened to them, which left me utterly shocked.
And this shocks me too, that you found Sonic Colors too much gimmicky. It's what Sonic needs, Sonic is a platformer character, so unique gameplay shifts are necessary because platformers do easily get linear. The hard thing is that Sonic is known by his speedy gameplay (I think that's wrong too, the feel of momentum was always Sonic's signature in the old games, not only "speed") and the more you add details, the more the chance of these shifts turn out to be speedbreakers. And it's the good thing about Sonic Colors, they tried to add new Wisp bonuses that doesn't break the feel of a Sonic game (unlike how Sonic Unleashed did with Werehog). It's not a big problem for the other platformer games known by their gimmicks (Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario) so they add a lot, but expecting Sonic just to run and jump whenever necessary just because Sonic is a running character is just downgrading him as a really imaginative platformer character.
Okay, I don't know if you played Final Fantasy series (X would be good example), but, I'm listing the plot details for you. Story is about Sonic, a Mary Sue princess having a monster inside, some other guy coming from future like it's nothing -and has random futuristic telepathy powers because he comes from future and that's about it- and the main bad guy is just... epitome of evil with black clouds and shooting clichéd... Bleach Cero attacks. Also has the voice of that guy tying the hot chick onto the rails of the upcoming train. Shadow is also being an emo and never gets a character development in the process. Supporting characters don't do jack shit but they're present because some people like them too. In the end the main baddie is defeated by power of love and deus ex machina that's used in every other 3D Sonic game and only includes bumping bright yellow hedgehog bodies on a collosal devil.
Its quality is the same of a fan fiction. It even sounds like some girl wrote the thing just to feel like a princess, kissing Sonic on the lips.
By "fucking up the franchise by mixing 2D and 3D" I mean Sonic Unleashed is bullcrap, Rush Adventure is weird and Sonic Colors is better on DS. You know, you do call "interesting" those which I refer "dull" and vice versa, which is pretty confusing. Mixture of 2D and 3D gameplay, especially when not knowing when which one will show up leads to a headache inducing playtime (suddenly the way you control your character changes completely and things start to come at you rather than scrolling one side to another, and I think it's a lot more confusing than the minecart level that was taken out). Most 3D games in this era inclues 2D segments as "GIMMICKY" levels which requires more attention.
You do know your examples are for handheld consoles whereas Megaman IX and X are sold as "the main deal". Those games, also Sonic Rivals series and that BioWare RPG were made and released as fun side games. Most franchises do that, actually. Completely 3D games such as Mirror's Edge or Portal also have 2D handheld versions (although the latter actually started as a fanmade flashgame but acknowledged and rereleased by Valve) and those are made because they actually offer different gameplay. However they're never acknowledged as "main deal" because most effort actually goes to the main releases. And this bothers me since when Sonic Team tries to give effort on something it starts to go downhill. Good business sense varies, a downloadable game can be better than a boxed hugeass game, or vice versa. But it's not a good business sense when you go to Expos and let people play the demo of your game when the demo only includes a 2.5D remake of an old level.
Keep in mind I also think Sonic Colors is a great game, definitely something they couldn't have done for many years. Hype is gone, though, now people expects something like that. And I'm skeptical about it because I do believe it was a matter of chance, too. Also, I like my 2D games better than 3D games. I think Super Meat Boy was the best action game of this year.
No they can't. They mostly trace Sonic X screenies and change the colors of characters using MSPaint, and claim that they're their own characters. But I've never seen one of those "Sonic fans" to pass Angel Island in Sonic 3. But still their voice is the loudest when it comes to fan whining on something that Sonic Team has done, because it's the "cool thing to do" and everyone does it.
I'm not saying Sega should be perfect. I'm saying Sega/Sonic Team was better in the old days. And they can reclaim their glory if they play out their cards wisely. But lately they rather try to let their own fans decide for theirselves, which is pathetic. Don't let your fans influence you, because they're your fans since you influenced them in the first place.
This post is longer than the report of my school project.
I didn't feel insulted because of the way you talked about fans. It was the fact that you told me to shut up, and then said an incredibly negative bunch of stuff. I thought you were insulting me, you thought I was trolling... I guess we both kinda got the wrong message there!
The reason you resurrected a four-month old thread is understandable and I won't hold that against you. Doesn't hurt to check when the last post was made when entering a new thread, but I'll just stand back and let this bit pass.
When you describe 'fans'... I wouldn't call them fans. I'd call them POWS - People-Obsessed-With-Sonic (that took, like, 2 minutes to come with. Be impressed, people!). Sonic fans, as I see them, are people who enjoy the games, and then go off and do something else. They don't obsess insanely over a bunch of games. They're ordinary people who like the games, and are concerned when a series that they used to like has fallen into decline.
That's why I thought you were so negative - because you were insulting my definition of fans, IE: ordinary people who happen to like Sonic. Since you were actually insulting POWS, I'll happily join you. POWS don't know the first thing about anything. POWS suck. Screw POWS. I'm sorry, I just like saying POWS. POWS!
When I originally said Sega were listening to the fans, that's actually because they said they were. In fact, here it is, if you're curious. I was quoting from Sega themselves. I'm just a messenger! Don't hate the messenger! Waa!
...but yeah, that's why I said it. No hate required.
EDIT: I had a whole bunch of stuff to say about what you've said, but then Firefox f**ked up on me and I lost like 20 minutes work. I'm not retyping it. F**k that.
But anyway. You make some good points, some of which I agree with and some I don't. But overall, I guess we got off on the wrong foot and I'd be happy to forget it all and start again.
Not before you also respond to my even longer reply. *is nervous*
I know they're listening to the fans. It IS why they decided to make Sonic 4 episodic, to change the game whenever necessary, by fan feedback between episodes. It's just that they don't also know the difference betweens FANS and POWS (I dig that abbreviation too).
Read my edited post. I am very annoyed at Firefox right now!
EDIT: Sod it, I'll retype it. Give me 10 minutes or so. Freakin' Firefox being all lame...
EDIT 2: Right.
Sonic 4. Biggest issue with me: The controls. Far too sticky. Once you adjust to that though, a fun little game. I like the nostalgia factor, but if it carries over into Episode 2, I'll join you in thinking it's too nostalgic.
Sonic Colours being 'gimmicky'. I loved the Day levels of Unleashed. They were fast, fun and (most importantly) basic. If you throw in magic powers, I feel it becomes too much and stops being as much fun. It is still fun, but not as much. But hey, that's just me.
Story. I've played the first 8 Final Fantasies. I know what a good story is (IE: 4-6). Sonic games have terrible stories, but the point I was trying to make is that they may be terrible, but at least they're imaginative. In hindsight, your fan-fic thing isn't that far off the mark with some of the games, so I'll just give you that one and move on.
Mixing 2D and 3D. We just plain have different views on this, so I'll skip this one with a simple "we agree to disagree".
Magaman 9. Here's the jist of what I previously said: 3D Console Sonics hated. 2D Handheld Sonics loved. Sonic Team notice, decide to make 2D Sonic for Consoles. This not copying Megaman. You do have a point with the "more money = worse game" thing though.
And out of curiosity, what game did Sonic show at expos with a remade level? I don't remember that. Unless it was the one from Sonic Adventure 2, which was terrible... wait, it probably was, wasn't it? Gah!
2D better than 3D. Agreed. Moving on.
Fans/POWS. Already mentioned them. Moving on.
Sega/Sonic Team listening to fans. Maybe they need to find a better balance of listening to fans and bringing their own ideas to the table, but I'd much rather have the Sonic Team of now than the Sonic Team of 5 years ago.
School Project. Wait, you're still in school? I've been arguing with a kid? Oh god! What has the internet done to me? Dalek KHAAAAAAN!
Comments
and big the cat sucks no matter what. Face it, Sonic Adventure 1 was much better than sonic Adventure 2. It looked much better, it played better. it felt more like a find your way to do the task given instead of race to the finish line. and every storyline was different in gameplay.
SA2 looked horrible compared to it, the story was very OMG LETS THROW IN THIS THING NOW, and both storylines are Race then shoot then hunt
I also thought SA2 was better then SA1, but then I only played the Gamecube versions, so I may be slightly biased there. Whatever.
Updated. Just trying to keep up with the times.
Didn't your mom ever tell you not to play with your food?
He has played Sonic Unleashed to death, and he's even got that one for the Wii where you use a sword. (I am not a real Sonic fan my self, so I don't know what that game is called). So I guess I will see this running on the TV in the future as well
Huh?
Let's see, that would be 'Sonic and the Black Knight". Its ok, its hard to keep track when you have at least one Sonic game for almost 20 systems.
Any exclusive xbox levels.
I assume that's a question.
Not that I know of. I think the iPhone levels make use of the tilt function - so I'm guessing it'll be a special stage... the rotating stage in Sonic The Hedgehog, ring tunnel in Sonic 2 and chequered ball of Sonic 3 would all work I think, particularly the first two.
My brother has them all as far as I know, bought the multi pack with all the old ones for PS2, and he's got Sonic Rider 1 and 2. And ofc what I mentioned before, I am just not a Sonic fan my self, so I don't see why I need to keep track of the names
Not the audio on the video... click 'music downloads'.
Common sense would make you think that sort of thing would be an iPod/Wii exclusive buttt...
I was more appalled than I usually am at Sonic when I watched this last night
Oh jesus jesus jesus. That's a really bad idea.
I'm crossing all my crossable body parts that it's somehow fake. I don't see how anyone with a braincell could think that would work. It was mildly irritating in the 8-bit versions of Sonic 2 but at least there was no rotating to deal with.
Its name's gay and it has another species of flying midgets which leave straight lines of colors out of their asses during flight, much like how Powerpuff Girls do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWS-9m1zlYM
It's hard to fine the trailer of this game by using the searchbar of Youtube, since the videos that contain girlish whines of toddlers -who hate/love fancharacters that are simply the palette swapped versions of canonical characters- have more views and therefore they are presented before and proven to be more important than an official teaser of an officially announced game.
Cue Falanca bitch fit in 5...4...3...2...1...
I have lost all hope of Sonic fandom.
Its like you can see into the future.
Awkward? What is awkward about it? If you're weak enough to get dizzy by the fact that LEVEL itself moves instead of Sonic, you shouldn't play Sonic in the first place. Sonic is a platformer making use of speed and rotation effects for its general visuality.
It was nice to see something new. It even looked fun, it was a really simple idea that actually requires you to think about it while playing it through. And yeah, not much to my surprise, it's taken away by so called FANS because it's not "SONIC" enough.
Its like clockwork
Perhaps it was the fault of the player but I just thought the idea was better than the actual result. The cart looked jerky and awkward to control, rather than fast paced and fun. Maybe it would have looked better if it had been one of those (perhaps overused) sections where you press the buttons shown on screen to advance along the track. That way the animation would remain fluid and it'd still be challenging.
I'm glad they removed it. If they like the idea they can use it in a future Sonic game that isn't following on from the original trilogy. I don't mind them adding new ideas - Sonic 2 introduced Tails and the spin attack, Sonic 3 brought us additional power-ups and Knuckles - I'm just not sure that particular minecart had a place in Sonic 4.
Controlling a level, rather than a character, is incredibly awkward (see Lucidity for a not-too-dissimilar example), especially in a game where in every other level the player is controlling the character. Gameplay shifts are not what Sonic needs right now (Unleashed, I'm looking at you), especially when the video showing it off looked like it would be incredibly frustrating to play.
If the level had stayed the same and we'd been controlling Sonic in the minecart (in a similar style to Donkey Kong Country), I feel it would be much better and more in keeping with the rest of the game, as well as a nice throwback to the Master System games. Maybe that's what they're doing now. Who knows?
Oh shut up, SEGA does NOTHING but listening to those so called fans these days. Well, except for coming up with the thought process of the majority of Sonic Colors.
They listen. They listen to y'all, because they have ZERO creativity. They had to turn crappy fanfictions into actual games, they had to make monstrocities of games that mixes both 2D and 3D because people wanted Sonic to go back to its roots "but not that much", then they went all 2D because less people started to even care about Sonic they had to pull a Megaman out of their asses.
Sonic Colors on the other hand WAS good but not THAT good since the hype on it is over, too. Also, I don't give two shits about Sonic 4 episodes because they listen to 6 year olds you call fans.
If there was a thumbs down button, I'd so press the thumbs up button.
That's why I hate gamers, Sonic "fans" in general.
Look, if you want to rant about how Sega has lost the plot when it comes to Sonic games, then fine. Do so. I disagree, but that's not the point. You don't need to resurrect a thread that's died off (something I often end up doing. I'm not sure I should be proud of that fact) and insult me while saying a bunch of incredibly negative anti-fanboyism. It's simply not called for and really won't win you many friends.
Right. Now to respond.
I've played both Sonic 4 Ep 1 and Sonic Colours and I can safely say they're the best Sonic games Sega have made in a good while. Both have their flaws - S4Ep1's controls feel too sticky and awkward for it to really feel like a proper sequel to the Genesis games, and Colours has... well, the 'colours' of the title (Wisps, if we're being picky) which were a little too gimmicky. But they were still fun, and they still keep me playing them to this day.
Zero creativity? I thought Sonic '06 was pretty creative. It wasn't good, but there were a lot of imaginative ideas about it. And yes, the plots were a mess, but "crappy fanfictions"? I think you're just venting here, so I won't touch that particular comment, aside from saying that it's not fan-fiction if the guys who make the games actually come up with it. That makes it canon, much as we all wish it weren't.
The only games that mix 2D and 3D are Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colours, so I assume you're referring to them when you insult Sega for trying an interesting mix of two different styles. I thought it worked pretty well in the WiiS2 version of Unleashed. Not so much for the PS360 version though.
As for copying Megaman... there have been 2D Sonic games for years (the Rush series on the DS, for example, or the Sonic Advance trilogy on the GBA) running alongside the 3D ones. If Sega realizes that fans like those more than the 3D games, how is it copying Megaman if they decide to do a DLC-style 2D Sonic game? Because it's on modern machines? Because it's downloadable? If something is good (as the Rush series was) and it's well-liked by fans, making more games in the same style is not copying someone else, it's good business sense!
Sonic Colours isn't perfect, but it's still a pretty good game. If you don't think so, fair enough. But given that the MetaCritic score is 77, I think most people will agree that it's a fairly good game, hype or no hype. Incidentally, the MetaCritic score for S4Ep1 is 72, and that's the lowest of all three consoles it came out for, so even if you don't give a crap about it, plenty of others do.
And honestly, 6-year olds these days can't play Sonic for crap. Not that they'd want to, since they're too busy killing each other in Call of Duty.
Look. Neither game is/was perfect, and neither is Sega. But they're getting better. Took long enough, but it's happening. Sonic 4 Episode 2 (Attack of the Clones) is going to have a second character, probably Tails, which'll be nice. If you still don't care, then fine. Don't bother those who do.
And definitely don't insult us.
I'm not calling you anything o_O What, you feel insulted because I insulted "fans" in general? If that's so, I'm sorry. If anything I'm a Sonic fan myself, it should've been apparent that I have an uncreative looking fancharacter I used in my avatar for a year or even longer, but yeah you're not my secretary or you don't hold my guide of what I like or which avatar I use, so yeah, I'm sorry for that too. As for me waiting for 4 months... Well, whenever I log onto forums first thing I do is to check New Posts. Some days I check it oftenly and some days I only check the first page of threads. If I do that the next day, the threads that I didn't check but were in the New Posts page (if there is no new post at all), goes way back in pages that I never check because it's the pile of the threads which are about things that I don't know or I don't want to discuss. How did I end up seeing this thread? The other thread about a stuffed hedgehog had this thread's link and I clicked on it knowing that I did go into a discussion in it, then saw your response which was long unanswered. And yeah I disagree with its contents so I just let it out. Yeah, I should've started easy, but yeah I didn't also want to explain my life story (like how I'm doing atm) before responding to you too.
With "fans", I mean the tards doing many fanfictions and shittyass characters trying to fit theirselves or their cheap villains into the canon story, playing the most horrid game with their tongue sticking out and only hating on a game when a majority does so; which is always about "IT'S NOT SONIC ENOUGH BECAUSE HE DOES NOT RUN :'<"
As for "shut up"... Iunno, I thought you were trolling there
Right right.
The flaws of Sonic 4 includes trying to have too much nostalgia. The game only has redeeming qualities of nostalgia whereas it should've been also about how fun to play. But it's not fun, you know, although gameplay was what we STILL like about the old games. Instead they gave jerky controls, I mean, they can't even get gameplay right in a 2D Sonic game. As for visuals, they look off even for a simplistic game. "It should have been completely 2d", "Why doesn't it have check patterns like in Green Hill Zone" or "Why doesn't Sonic have black pupils" are all bullshit but if they actually go for the third dimension, they could actually try for better animations. Even in the older 2D versions they did give importance to that. Right now it still looks undone. As for level designs they don't really want to get imaginative so they just recycle old themes (people love them, yes, but that means they can go play Sonic 3 too) and the reason why I go all angry about the minecart level is because it was NEW. They actually try to add little gimmicks that may differentiate things a little, you know, therefore this game can be significant in itself instead of being a mimickery of what they did in the past. But people said NO to that, and they listened to them, which left me utterly shocked.
And this shocks me too, that you found Sonic Colors too much gimmicky. It's what Sonic needs, Sonic is a platformer character, so unique gameplay shifts are necessary because platformers do easily get linear. The hard thing is that Sonic is known by his speedy gameplay (I think that's wrong too, the feel of momentum was always Sonic's signature in the old games, not only "speed") and the more you add details, the more the chance of these shifts turn out to be speedbreakers. And it's the good thing about Sonic Colors, they tried to add new Wisp bonuses that doesn't break the feel of a Sonic game (unlike how Sonic Unleashed did with Werehog). It's not a big problem for the other platformer games known by their gimmicks (Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario) so they add a lot, but expecting Sonic just to run and jump whenever necessary just because Sonic is a running character is just downgrading him as a really imaginative platformer character.
Okay, I don't know if you played Final Fantasy series (X would be good example), but, I'm listing the plot details for you. Story is about Sonic, a Mary Sue princess having a monster inside, some other guy coming from future like it's nothing -and has random futuristic telepathy powers because he comes from future and that's about it- and the main bad guy is just... epitome of evil with black clouds and shooting clichéd... Bleach Cero attacks. Also has the voice of that guy tying the hot chick onto the rails of the upcoming train. Shadow is also being an emo and never gets a character development in the process. Supporting characters don't do jack shit but they're present because some people like them too. In the end the main baddie is defeated by power of love and deus ex machina that's used in every other 3D Sonic game and only includes bumping bright yellow hedgehog bodies on a collosal devil.
Its quality is the same of a fan fiction. It even sounds like some girl wrote the thing just to feel like a princess, kissing Sonic on the lips.
By "fucking up the franchise by mixing 2D and 3D" I mean Sonic Unleashed is bullcrap, Rush Adventure is weird and Sonic Colors is better on DS. You know, you do call "interesting" those which I refer "dull" and vice versa, which is pretty confusing. Mixture of 2D and 3D gameplay, especially when not knowing when which one will show up leads to a headache inducing playtime (suddenly the way you control your character changes completely and things start to come at you rather than scrolling one side to another, and I think it's a lot more confusing than the minecart level that was taken out). Most 3D games in this era inclues 2D segments as "GIMMICKY" levels which requires more attention.
You do know your examples are for handheld consoles whereas Megaman IX and X are sold as "the main deal". Those games, also Sonic Rivals series and that BioWare RPG were made and released as fun side games. Most franchises do that, actually. Completely 3D games such as Mirror's Edge or Portal also have 2D handheld versions (although the latter actually started as a fanmade flashgame but acknowledged and rereleased by Valve) and those are made because they actually offer different gameplay. However they're never acknowledged as "main deal" because most effort actually goes to the main releases. And this bothers me since when Sonic Team tries to give effort on something it starts to go downhill. Good business sense varies, a downloadable game can be better than a boxed hugeass game, or vice versa. But it's not a good business sense when you go to Expos and let people play the demo of your game when the demo only includes a 2.5D remake of an old level.
Keep in mind I also think Sonic Colors is a great game, definitely something they couldn't have done for many years. Hype is gone, though, now people expects something like that. And I'm skeptical about it because I do believe it was a matter of chance, too. Also, I like my 2D games better than 3D games. I think Super Meat Boy was the best action game of this year.
No they can't. They mostly trace Sonic X screenies and change the colors of characters using MSPaint, and claim that they're their own characters. But I've never seen one of those "Sonic fans" to pass Angel Island in Sonic 3. But still their voice is the loudest when it comes to fan whining on something that Sonic Team has done, because it's the "cool thing to do" and everyone does it.
I'm not saying Sega should be perfect. I'm saying Sega/Sonic Team was better in the old days. And they can reclaim their glory if they play out their cards wisely. But lately they rather try to let their own fans decide for theirselves, which is pathetic. Don't let your fans influence you, because they're your fans since you influenced them in the first place.
This post is longer than the report of my school project.
I didn't feel insulted because of the way you talked about fans. It was the fact that you told me to shut up, and then said an incredibly negative bunch of stuff. I thought you were insulting me, you thought I was trolling... I guess we both kinda got the wrong message there!
The reason you resurrected a four-month old thread is understandable and I won't hold that against you. Doesn't hurt to check when the last post was made when entering a new thread, but I'll just stand back and let this bit pass.
When you describe 'fans'... I wouldn't call them fans. I'd call them POWS - People-Obsessed-With-Sonic (that took, like, 2 minutes to come with. Be impressed, people!). Sonic fans, as I see them, are people who enjoy the games, and then go off and do something else. They don't obsess insanely over a bunch of games. They're ordinary people who like the games, and are concerned when a series that they used to like has fallen into decline.
That's why I thought you were so negative - because you were insulting my definition of fans, IE: ordinary people who happen to like Sonic. Since you were actually insulting POWS, I'll happily join you. POWS don't know the first thing about anything. POWS suck. Screw POWS. I'm sorry, I just like saying POWS. POWS!
When I originally said Sega were listening to the fans, that's actually because they said they were. In fact, here it is, if you're curious. I was quoting from Sega themselves. I'm just a messenger! Don't hate the messenger! Waa!
...but yeah, that's why I said it. No hate required.
EDIT: I had a whole bunch of stuff to say about what you've said, but then Firefox f**ked up on me and I lost like 20 minutes work. I'm not retyping it. F**k that.
But anyway. You make some good points, some of which I agree with and some I don't. But overall, I guess we got off on the wrong foot and I'd be happy to forget it all and start again.
Truce?
Not before you also respond to my even longer reply. *is nervous*
I know they're listening to the fans. It IS why they decided to make Sonic 4 episodic, to change the game whenever necessary, by fan feedback between episodes. It's just that they don't also know the difference betweens FANS and POWS (I dig that abbreviation too).
EDIT: Sod it, I'll retype it. Give me 10 minutes or so. Freakin' Firefox being all lame...
EDIT 2: Right.
Sonic 4. Biggest issue with me: The controls. Far too sticky. Once you adjust to that though, a fun little game. I like the nostalgia factor, but if it carries over into Episode 2, I'll join you in thinking it's too nostalgic.
Sonic Colours being 'gimmicky'. I loved the Day levels of Unleashed. They were fast, fun and (most importantly) basic. If you throw in magic powers, I feel it becomes too much and stops being as much fun. It is still fun, but not as much. But hey, that's just me.
Story. I've played the first 8 Final Fantasies. I know what a good story is (IE: 4-6). Sonic games have terrible stories, but the point I was trying to make is that they may be terrible, but at least they're imaginative. In hindsight, your fan-fic thing isn't that far off the mark with some of the games, so I'll just give you that one and move on.
Mixing 2D and 3D. We just plain have different views on this, so I'll skip this one with a simple "we agree to disagree".
Magaman 9. Here's the jist of what I previously said: 3D Console Sonics hated. 2D Handheld Sonics loved. Sonic Team notice, decide to make 2D Sonic for Consoles. This not copying Megaman. You do have a point with the "more money = worse game" thing though.
And out of curiosity, what game did Sonic show at expos with a remade level? I don't remember that. Unless it was the one from Sonic Adventure 2, which was terrible... wait, it probably was, wasn't it? Gah!
2D better than 3D. Agreed. Moving on.
Fans/POWS. Already mentioned them. Moving on.
Sega/Sonic Team listening to fans. Maybe they need to find a better balance of listening to fans and bringing their own ideas to the table, but I'd much rather have the Sonic Team of now than the Sonic Team of 5 years ago.
School Project. Wait, you're still in school? I've been arguing with a kid? Oh god! What has the internet done to me? Dalek KHAAAAAAN!