School Project. Wait, you're still in school? I've been arguing with a kid? Oh god! What has the internet done to me? Dalek KHAAAAAAN!
I have only one month in my teenager license. My project was the visualization of an algorithm in C language and Allegro and I'm studying software engineering OH W/E BACK ON TOPIC.
Sonic 4. Biggest issue with me: The controls. Far too sticky. Once you adjust to that though, a fun little game. I like the nostalgia factor, but if it carries over into Episode 2, I'll join you in thinking it's too nostalgic.
I still think what makes a 2D Sonic game a true 2D Sonic game is the controls so if you don't make it feel like Sonic, it's not that respectful to the classics to begin with.
But it's also episodic and I'll give you that. Maybe what they're aiming for is to give a "Nostalgia episode" feel for Episode 1 and if it's that so, it's okay. I didn't take that into account, I mean, they can have an Episode 2 which is completely original, which would totally disprove me. So;
Sonic Colours being 'gimmicky'. I loved the Day levels of Unleashed. They were fast, fun and (most importantly) basic. If you throw in magic powers, I feel it becomes too much and stops being as much fun. It is still fun, but not as much. But hey, that's just me.
I feel like it's not as convoluted and that is why, I think it's a good game. The implemention of the new gameplay twists are well done and plays smooth with Sonic's original gameplay. But hey, THAT is just me.
Story. I've played the first 8 Final Fantasies. I know what a good story is (IE: 4-6). Sonic games have terrible stories, but the point I was trying to make is that they may be terrible, but at least they're imaginative. In hindsight, your fan-fic thing isn't that far off the mark with some of the games, so I'll just give you that one and move on.
Imaginative is one thing and using clichéd plot aspects (Damsel in distress, time travelling anti-heroes, power lust evil demon Mephiles, kiss of life) is another. I found Super Meat Boy is more imaginative than that and it only consists of an antagonist stealing protagonist's girlfriend (but still the characters are a cube made of meat, a cube made of bandages and a fetus inside a jar WHICH IS wearing a monocle and a suit).
Unsure if you still want to move on regardless of the new arguments I threw in.
Magaman 9. Here's the jist of what I previously said: 3D Console Sonics hated. 2D Handheld Sonics loved. Sonic Team notice, decide to make 2D Sonic for Consoles. This not copying Megaman. You do have a point with the "more money = worse game" thing though.
"Copying" is harsh, but Megaman was the one who proved bringing old classics with its own visual style can be successful, and you can't totally deny the fact that their decision of "going back to the roots" would be that easy if Megaman 9 didn't exist to show them an example. You're right with the thought process of Sonic Team, which is highly understandable. It's not really about 2D though, I mean, I'm not saying they're continuing to copy Megaman with Sonic Colors, in fact i'm saying Sonic Colors is a great game holds onto its own dependency. Both Megaman 9 and Sonic 4 "aimed" for nostalgia (which can be done without totally aiming for it), and that's why I insist on this being an imitation.
And out of curiosity, what game did Sonic show at expos with a remade level? I don't remember that. Unless it was the one from Sonic Adventure 2, which was terrible... wait, it probably was, wasn't it? Gah!
Sonic 4: Episode 1. The Green Hill Zone. I can provide a video later on, by The Spoony One who also shares the same views with me on this subject.
Sega/Sonic Team listening to fans. Maybe they need to find a better balance of listening to fans and bringing their own ideas to the table, but I'd much rather have the Sonic Team of now than the Sonic Team of 5 years ago.
I have only one month in my teenager license. My project was the visualization of an algorithm in C language and Allegro and I'm studying software engineering OH W/E BACK ON TOPIC.
Hope you're better at maths then I was! First thing, Monday morning 9:00, equations so far over my head I literally had no idea what the hell was going on.
Imaginative is one thing and using clichéd plot aspects (Damsel in distress, time travelling anti-heroes, power lust evil demon Mephiles, kiss of life) is another. I found Super Meat Boy is more imaginative than that and it only consists of an antagonist stealing protagonist's girlfriend (but still the characters are a cube made of meat, a cube made of bandages and a fetus inside a jar WHICH IS wearing a monocle and a suit).
Unsure if you still want to move on regardless of the new arguments I threw in.
Clichéd is not the word I'd use to describe Sonic, a hedgehog who ran faster then the speed of sound and turned his 'fur' blue when the shockwave hit (seriously, that's his origin. Also, Eggman used to be Dr. Kintobor, before stuff happened involving the Chaos Emeralds and a rotten egg [I am totally serious] and he turned into Robotnik. Look it up!). It's also hard to come up with an original plot without going the Super Meat Boy route - ie: bat-sh*t insane.
But to be honest, I've long forgotten what the original point I was trying to make was, so whatever. You win, I guess.
"Copying" is harsh, but Megaman was the one who proved bringing old classics with its own visual style can be successful, and you can't totally deny the fact that their decision of "going back to the roots" would be that easy if Megaman 9 didn't exist to show them an example. You're right with the thought process of Sonic Team, which is highly understandable. It's not really about 2D though, I mean, I'm not saying they're continuing to copy Megaman with Sonic Colors, in fact i'm saying Sonic Colors is a great game holds onto its own dependency. Both Megaman 9 and Sonic 4 "aimed" for nostalgia (which can be done without totally aiming for it), and that's why I insist on this being an imitation.
Eh, I see your point. But that's not to say that Sonic Team copied Megaman entirely. The visuals that Sonic 4 has is an attempt to appeal to old and new gamers, and one of the developers posted a story about an old gamer loving Megaman 9 but his kids wondering WTF to justify said artistic direction. But yeah, I'll concede that one..
Hope you're better at maths then I was! First thing, Monday morning 9:00, equations so far over my head I literally had no idea what the hell was going on.
EDIT: OH I MISUNDERSTOOD IT.
Okay well... I thought I was good at it but now I'm not so sure. But I survive, thanks!
Clichéd is not the word I'd use to describe Sonic, a hedgehog who ran faster then the speed of sound and turned his 'fur' blue when the shockwave hit (seriously, that's his origin. Also, Eggman used to be Dr. Kintobor, before stuff happened involving the Chaos Emeralds and a rotten egg [I am totally serious] and he turned into Robotnik. Look it up!). It's also hard to come up with an original plot without going the Super Meat Boy route - ie: bat-sh*t insane.
That's the point, they succeeded on making Sonic clichéd (Btw, it's the origin of him in British Sonic the Comic which does not count as canon by many, and yes I knew it beforehand, I have a good history of fanboyism over Sonic)! Princesses (besides Sally who never ever whined like a sissy girl and did fight against Robotnik unlike how Elise did), bad guys made out of BLACK PURE EVIL ROAR, coming back to life after the life of kiss... I mean it's dreadful. It's not Sonic, it's DBZ-style actions + fairy tale romantism. If anything they could left the storyline part out and make Sonic just go after Eggman which would be appreciated more. What hurts me more is the cutscenes in the game looks OH MY GOD so pretty. They're wonderful, they're a breeze to look at. Then you realize, all this effort went to THAT stupid piece of blandness.
Eh, I see your point. But that's not to say that Sonic Team copied Megaman entirely. The visuals that Sonic 4 has is an attempt to appeal to old and new gamers, and one of the developers posted a story about an old gamer loving Megaman 9 but his kids wondering WTF to justify said artistic direction. But yeah, I'll concede that one..
There is a reason why they used simplified but still 3D graphics in Sonic 4, yes (whereas there is no reason to justify the chunky animation but what the hell, if everything was good in this game they would still leave that out and I wouldn't mind). I mean there is also a reason why didn't they used sprites which was on the right side obviously. But the idea of going back to the roots is just not an idea they wanted to go for the first time, that's what I wanted to say.
At the moment you were writing this post I was trying to find a good version of the said part of the video. I don't want to make you watch the full 40 minutes of video just to show you these two minutes so I had to find this portion of it, and the quality really sucks on this one but I did my best.
Comments
I still think what makes a 2D Sonic game a true 2D Sonic game is the controls so if you don't make it feel like Sonic, it's not that respectful to the classics to begin with.
But it's also episodic and I'll give you that. Maybe what they're aiming for is to give a "Nostalgia episode" feel for Episode 1 and if it's that so, it's okay. I didn't take that into account, I mean, they can have an Episode 2 which is completely original, which would totally disprove me. So;
Unsure if you still want to move on regardless of the new arguments I threw in. Word.
Sonic 4: Episode 1. The Green Hill Zone. I can provide a video later on, by The Spoony One who also shares the same views with me on this subject.
True, true, so true.
...yeah.
Clichéd is not the word I'd use to describe Sonic, a hedgehog who ran faster then the speed of sound and turned his 'fur' blue when the shockwave hit (seriously, that's his origin. Also, Eggman used to be Dr. Kintobor, before stuff happened involving the Chaos Emeralds and a rotten egg [I am totally serious] and he turned into Robotnik. Look it up!). It's also hard to come up with an original plot without going the Super Meat Boy route - ie: bat-sh*t insane.
But to be honest, I've long forgotten what the original point I was trying to make was, so whatever. You win, I guess.
Eh, I see your point. But that's not to say that Sonic Team copied Megaman entirely. The visuals that Sonic 4 has is an attempt to appeal to old and new gamers, and one of the developers posted a story about an old gamer loving Megaman 9 but his kids wondering WTF to justify said artistic direction. But yeah, I'll concede that one..
Please do, I'd be interested to see it.
Okay well... I thought I was good at it but now I'm not so sure. But I survive, thanks!
That's the point, they succeeded on making Sonic clichéd (Btw, it's the origin of him in British Sonic the Comic which does not count as canon by many, and yes I knew it beforehand, I have a good history of fanboyism over Sonic)! Princesses (besides Sally who never ever whined like a sissy girl and did fight against Robotnik unlike how Elise did), bad guys made out of BLACK PURE EVIL ROAR, coming back to life after the life of kiss... I mean it's dreadful. It's not Sonic, it's DBZ-style actions + fairy tale romantism. If anything they could left the storyline part out and make Sonic just go after Eggman which would be appreciated more. What hurts me more is the cutscenes in the game looks OH MY GOD so pretty. They're wonderful, they're a breeze to look at. Then you realize, all this effort went to THAT stupid piece of blandness.
There is a reason why they used simplified but still 3D graphics in Sonic 4, yes (whereas there is no reason to justify the chunky animation but what the hell, if everything was good in this game they would still leave that out and I wouldn't mind). I mean there is also a reason why didn't they used sprites which was on the right side obviously. But the idea of going back to the roots is just not an idea they wanted to go for the first time, that's what I wanted to say.
So yeah, solved too, yo.
At the moment you were writing this post I was trying to find a good version of the said part of the video. I don't want to make you watch the full 40 minutes of video just to show you these two minutes so I had to find this portion of it, and the quality really sucks on this one but I did my best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJQOUOs9Alw
Let me remind you that Spoony actually never played a Sonic game after the Genesis ones so the first things he say might come too harsh.
No, I don't actually FULLY agree with him, but I respect his out-of-fandom-but-wanted-to-check-out-for-once view.
Anyway. This 'argument' has sort of run out of steam, so peace out, have a great new year and I'll see you on the flip side.