Looks awesome. Peter Bogdanovich being director grabbed my attention. I must say that I'm interested in seeing what he'd do based on his experiences with The Sopranos. I love the way that show creates it's characters around psychology. It makes it a lot of more credible and realistic that way
Won't be getting it though. 360, that's how I roll :rolleyes:
I might just pick this up at somepoint, although i have a couple of queries. How long is it? And how simple is it to play (my mum might enjoy it, but she gets confused by most control schemes)
I bought it today. I played from 7 pm to midnight, straight. It appears that I’m not that far in the game.
What I can say is I love it. I saw it molested almost everywhere. In fact, it’s just a dividing game. It divides people who play only to win, and people who play also for pleasure. Because yes, there is no challenge for the player in this game. Like in TGC’s Flower, for example. Sure. But there is a story, an atmosphere, you’re investigating, you’re living, you can do a lot of things, and also a lot of useless things. I read a lot of people complaining or mocking of some things… like the people walking… oh my god, people walking at home, I’ve never seen that before, why can’t I run ? Oh my god, I can’t flip myself in a quarter of a second, I’m compelled to move my body, that’s so disappointing. Oh my god, I can drink orange juice and that’s useless. Oh my god, there is a tutorial and it’s easy.
The game is all about how do you think you should act. Should I, should I not, which way, quickly, slowly, aggressive, calmly… you have the choice. To do the best. Or not doing anything.
To be honest, I don’t care about challenge. I’m not the kind of people who look at high scores, who collect trophies to show them proudly to other virtual trophies hunters, I mainly play for pleasure. For stories, or beautiful things, to live something.
For sure, this time, you’re not in the army, trained to kill, born to run, compelled to wear green cloth. You won’t have much the pleasure to kill bots or kill your friends by the Internet. To hide from "old times bad times" german soldiers, and heal war wounds.
But well… the job is well done. You’re oscillating between nightmares, trauma, reality, futuristic investigation, old fashion investigation, fat charismatic guy, shaking young FBI agent, puzzled man, quite good looking woman, that’s the deal. You’re walking.
I had a long dream last night about figuring out how to acquire / rent a PS3 so I could play this.
Seconded. I didn't dream, but it's certainly been on my mind. I haven't wanted a game this badly since Dead Rising. (And how wonderful it was when I finally bought a 360 and a copy of said game.)
It's getting harder and harder to not seek a playthrough vid online.
I love having my buttons pushed. I love games that dare do something different. I love it when someone breaks every rule on the planet, and then invents their own.
I just hate Heavy Rain so, so much.
I've spewed this hate on other places, so I'll just vent out one more time here and leave.
A lot of it is just a reaction to my hatred of David "Citizen Kane" Cage, but a decent chunk of it is a reaction to Heavy Rain being CSI and thinking it's The Wire. Actually, CSI has somewhat believable dialogue. Heavy Rain is just unbelievably stupid. Why are people calling this incredible? It's not doing anything different, and what it does it's doing rather badly.
I admire that they tried doing a different kind of story. I admire that they didn't have you shooting people all the time. But that is not exclusive to Heavy Rain, and yet Sony and Quantic Dream are pretending that this is the case. Neither is the game the first "emotional" experience - so what gives?
I mean, the "sleazy place" scene
has three or four variations, but they're just little touches. She gets beat-up more? So what? She doesn't give me the info? Unless that completely derails the story, it's a completely pointless scene. I might re-kindle interest if it does mean something, but I get the feeling it won't
.
The thing that hurts me the most is that Cage actually believes this is a "mature" game, when clearly it is not. I'm dying to know if he believes it's a "thinking man's game" too.
Anyways, I'm taking a very large pass on this one. I have a hunch I'll be a lot more involved in The Last Guardian, and I might as well begin saving cash.
Okay, I finished my first impressions video, and here it is! It's spoiler-free, so it's something you might want to check out if you don't mind my voice at random points through the video.
I love having my buttons pushed. I love games that dare do something different. I love it when someone breaks every rule on the planet, and then invents their own.
I just hate Heavy Rain so, so much.
I've spewed this hate on other places, so I'll just vent out one more time here and leave.
A lot of it is just a reaction to my hatred of David "Citizen Kane" Cage, but a decent chunk of it is a reaction to Heavy Rain being CSI and thinking it's The Wire. Actually, CSI has somewhat believable dialogue. Heavy Rain is just unbelievably stupid. Why are people calling this incredible? It's not doing anything different, and what it does it's doing rather badly.
I admire that they tried doing a different kind of story. I admire that they didn't have you shooting people all the time. But that is not exclusive to Heavy Rain, and yet Sony and Quantic Dream are pretending that this is the case. Neither is the game the first "emotional" experience - so what gives?
I mean, the "sleazy place" scene
has three or four variations, but they're just little touches. She gets beat-up more? So what? She doesn't give me the info? Unless that completely derails the story, it's a completely pointless scene. I might re-kindle interest if it does mean something, but I get the feeling it won't
.
The thing that hurts me the most is that Cage actually believes this is a "mature" game, when clearly it is not. I'm dying to know if he believes it's a "thinking man's game" too.
Anyways, I'm taking a very large pass on this one. I have a hunch I'll be a lot more involved in The Last Guardian, and I might as well begin saving cash.
*backs off thread*
Cool, some good old fight, let’s go ^^
So, in first place, take a game for what it is and not for what marketing is calling it. You wouldn’t believe how many best gaming experience ever made are hitting stores every week.
Then, it’s great to tell things, but it’s better when your have some arguments. Because for you, what makes a mature game ? Amounts of blood ? Massive killing ?
Yes it’s a mature game, because it plays with your feelings, with your conscience, it lets you make choices, and not the most obvious ones. Of course, you can be sentimentally handicapped, I’m sure there is some people who will never empathize for a dad who lost his son and who sees his perfect life getting broken by this single element. Of course, I’m sure it’s not mature nowadays, when you’re stuffed with violence, to make choices to save someone you love. If it’s worth killing for. If it’s worth dying for. Because yes, in lot of games now, you kill, you die, and zap, three seconds after, you’re up to kill again. But when you look at it from a human side, like a movie, you know, that dark room where people cry when the hero dies, this game is Mature with a capital M. I won’t let my children play that. Not because it’s violent. Not because you see boobies. But because there is some choices a human should never have to do. Never.
But you’re compelled to do it, and your feelings will lead you to the way you think you should act. I finished the game today, trying to be fair in every scene. However, it’s not that easy, because sometimes you doubt, you misjudge, or simply fail at some tasks just too difficult to realize. Sometimes, your character is so freaked you just can’t do the right thing because you can’t read, because it’s shaking, because you don’t have enough time. And you do, just like when you’re stressed, something you regret. If only I had more time to think. If only I was not afraid of anything…
My character was in a very bad posture. I had to hold more than six buttons for many seconds, discovering one each new second (R1, then L1, then R2, L2, triangle, square, O, X). It saved my character, but to success, I was compelled to push it with my nose.
You know what ? that’s fun to judge a game you don’t know. To put some more arguments from my side, I finished the game as a total loser. The game itself named my save «*total impunity*». I made what I thought being the good choices. But maybe it wasn’t. Or maybe I failed at the most important scenes, I can’t know because everything in the game is related. What I know, is that I want to play again, and this time I hope there will be justice. I’ll do my best for that.
You know, in real life, when you’re fighting against somebody, if you fight longer, you won’t win anything for that, except more bruises. Right ? That’s exactly what’s this game is about. You can sometime fail, you can sometime success, sometime you just can’t change the way things are, it’s fate. But sometime, you can. Maybe you could just try, to see… Remember this first fight you talked about ? You can, if you want, just go away. You won’t have any wound. If you do well, you will have just a small scratch. If you do bad, you’ll be totally covered with bruises. Like in your everyday life, some choices will change your world forever. Some others won’t change anything.
Have fun with your gigantic mythologic shouting chicken.
Someone talked about Shenmue. Well, there is a little bit of Shenmue in Heavy Rain. First, in the massive use of MoCap, second on the human scale of the game (real objects you can use, contextual actions, feelings matters, and walking where it’s no place to run), and then of course, Quick Time Events.
But Shenmue has a semi-open world, where you have a quest, and you can totally forget about it. You can talk to every stranger in the street, and walk in any store you want, just to buy some tomato thingies. Heavy Rain is a lot more dense, you follow the story, you can only talk to some main characters, you can’t just walk around the street day and night to play afterburner. This is a design choice, because you can’t be free and let four stories being totally free. In Heavy Rain, you follow different stories, to see the investigation from different points of view, and the narration is quite precise and clever, so you can’t be as free as Shenmue let you be.
Shenmue II is still my best gaming experience in my life.
But Heavy Rain is something worth to try.
Is this at all like Indigo Prophecy? I'm asking because I really didn't like IP all that much. I don't have a PS3 anyway so it doesn't matter much to me but I'm just curious. I get a serious uncanny valley vibe from the character models, especially when they move their mouths.
It's got a lot of QTE, in fact if you not walking it's a QTE. I love this game because I also love Shenmue and Shenmue II. Hopefully*Cough* Sega *Cough* WIll realize that there needs to be a shenmue III. The game is like Shenmue just without fighting.
Just bought Heavy Rain..I was pretty skeptical about the control scheme/gameplay... You start off and you're playing with your son in the backyard, suddenly you're in a mall and he goes missing. You go running through the mall, bumping into people, panicking, looking for him. I was completely immersed in this experience. This is the opening 20 minutes of the game. This is the kind of storytelling in a game I've been waiting years for. It really is something completely different and I love it. I also love how they've done the dialogue for a console. With words floating around and you choose one as a dialogue option. This is something that could work really well with Sam & Max. Anyway everyone should buy this game! If you haven't got a PS3 now is the time to get one!
So, in first place, take a game for what it is and not for what marketing is calling it. You wouldn’t believe how many best gaming experience ever made are hitting stores every week.
I'm just irked by David Cage comparing himself to Orson Welles.
Then, it’s great to tell things, but it’s better when your have some arguments. Because for you, what makes a mature game ? Amounts of blood ? Massive killing ?
What? No. Come on.
A mature game is a game that deals with issues like a responsible adult. Technically, you could make a mature children's game.
Yes it’s a mature game, because it plays with your feelings, with your conscience, it lets you make choices, and not the most obvious ones. Of course, you can be sentimentally handicapped, I’m sure there is some people who will never empathize for a dad who lost his son and who sees his perfect life getting broken by this single element. Of course, I’m sure it’s not mature nowadays, when you’re stuffed with violence, to make choices to save someone you love. If it’s worth killing for. If it’s worth dying for. Because yes, in lot of games now, you kill, you die, and zap, three seconds after, you’re up to kill again. But when you look at it from a human side, like a movie, you know, that dark room where people cry when the hero dies, this game is Mature with a capital M.
It's great that the game plays with your emotions, but there's been games like that before. Tales of Monkey Island is a recent example. Team Ico's games come to mind. However, an emotional game isn't necessarily a mature one.
The shower scene alone made me feel that there was this extra camera-man, hired to just zoom in on Madison's breasts. It's a bit telling that two of the suggestions that come-up when you type-in Heavy Rain are about Madison's stripping scene.
.
Even the killer's motive was paper-thin. It felt cheap - it was cheap. It almost felt like it was there just for shock value, or maybe to adapt an Agatha Christie-style surprise where it didn't really belong. It almost felt like Saw.
A parent trying to save their child's life is heavy stuff, don't get me wrong. I'm sure that resonates with people. Yet maturity is achieved by *how* you handle things, not by what you handle.
To be frank, I think the "mature" tag is just marketing. The game's smacks of CSI with a grim atmosphere, though even CSI has better dialogue. (Maybe a lot of it gets lost in translation, I don't know.) The real yank of the chain is that there is so much potential, and they trussed it up. That bums me out more than anything: with real writers, this game could really have been something. Part of me wishes a French George Pelecanos or Michael Chabon would have been there.
Dark doesn't make you mature. Breasts, drugs or murder don't make you mature. Bad Lieutenant and Eastern Promises are both dark crime stories, like Heavy Rain, but their exploration of the darker side of human nature is handled with care; there is shock value, but it feels earned. That is what makes them so powerful.
Regarding the choices: hey, it's great that there are some real consequences (even if some of the consequences are a little bit). But too many of the choices area little contrived and forced.
Why does Mad Jack give Jayden a chance to live? Why does that guy in a suit let Lauren and Scott potentially survive? Why not just kill them immediately? It doesn't make any sense. It's an unnecessary plot device.
I won’t let my children play that. Not because it’s violent. Not because you see boobies. But because there is some choices a human should never have to do. Never.
Well, your kids are technically still sitting on a couch. You're the parent, though.
But you’re compelled to do it, and your feelings will lead you to the way you think you should act. I finished the game today, trying to be fair in every scene. However, it’s not that easy, because sometimes you doubt, you misjudge, or simply fail at some tasks just too difficult to realize. Sometimes, your character is so freaked you just can’t do the right thing because you can’t read, because it’s shaking, because you don’t have enough time. And you do, just like when you’re stressed, something you regret. If only I had more time to think. If only I was not afraid of anything…
That's pretty much the only reason I still have any residual interest in Heavy Rain. The resulting bruises from a badly-fought punch-out are just little touches - I've seen that kind of thing before. I know the little things are what make something work. If you fail, you die. That's nice. Game-wise, I mean.
But I can't be sold on something if the broad strokes aren't working either, and the game fails a lot of the time.
I might buy it for <= $20; not more.
Have fun with your gigantic mythologic shouting chicken.
You won’t enjoy the game, for a simple reason : you already know too much to be surprised, it’s just totally ridiculous. You take it step by step without playing it, it’s incredibly absurd, because the game is meant to play straight, and is about discovering what’s going, feeling things like the character you’re playing, evolving with him, at the same time as the story goes, and making choices regarding what you know (and what you don’t know). You tell me about Mad Jack. You know, I don’t know the scene you’re talking about. It never happened like that to me. And that’s exactly where you’re totally mistaking. It shows you have choice. But again, you already know the killer, what’s the point ? You read the script of the movies before you go see them ? That’s just… absurd. o_O
(And that’s too funny to judge the motivations of a mental unbalanced guy. He is unbalanced. That’s why he is a serial killer.)
Then, for you, what is a mature game ? I mean, Heavy Rain is not the only mature game, of course, but it is, indeed ! How can you deny such an evidence ?
Anyway, I don’t care, if it’s mature or not, for me it feels like, and that’s all. I don’t care about which category it should fit well to please you. Okay, that’s not a mature game. I still don’t understand what it is then, but I suppose I’m too dumb to understand, so I don’t care. Let’s say it’s a dark game, you like it like that ?
And of course, this game is not a revolution or else, but who cares ? It achieves his goal, in being an intense story to play, where your actions can have different consequences. And there is not much games to do that. With that level of music, graphics, acting, animation, and possibilities. In fact, not a single one. But you’re so much pissed off of the marketing, and I don’t how, but watched too much footage to just have any chance to like it.
Heavy Rain is a unique experience, it does not invent anything, but it uses known techniques very well to make you live something. And you won’t live anything, believe me, because you know too much.
Actually, my cousin got the game and we played it together.
(And that’s too funny to judge the motivations of a mental unbalanced guy. He is unbalanced. That’s why he is a serial killer.)
According to a few books I've read, serial killers usually have some motive. In some cases, it's a rage against their parents. Sometimes, it's self-hatred taken out on others - for example, a self-hating gay psychopath could kill gay men. Either way, it can be traced to a series of incidents in a person's past.
Scott kills because he wants to see if parents are willing to go all the way to save their children...because his one brother died when their indifferent father didn't save him. I'm sorry - it doesn't work like that. People don't just snap. It's a long, consistent process. And even if Scott went through horrible angst over his dead brother: his motive for killing doesn't jive with a normal serial killer's. Normal serial killers, for example, would re-live something, maybe re-kill John or kill their dad. Serial killers usually make some iota of sense once they've been analyzed. Ed Gein was re-enacting his mother, Ted Bundy was targeting girls who reminded him of his mother, especially the hair, and so on. This guy is killing people as a test. It seems like something out of Saw, not real life.
Then, for you, what is a mature game ? I mean, Heavy Rain is not the only mature game, of course, but it is, indeed ! How can you deny such an evidence ?
Anyway, I don’t care, if it’s mature or not, for me it feels like, and that’s all. I don’t care about which category it should fit well to please you. Okay, that’s not a mature game. I still don’t understand what it is then, but I suppose I’m too dumb to understand, so I don’t care. Let’s say it’s a dark game, you like it like that ?
Let's say it's a "cop game". I'd also say Shadow of the Colossus was mature, or at least somewhat mature, because it made you feel terribly guilty for killing those creatures. The camera pans up, you see their face, you think they look frightened. Boom - instant regret. I know a couple of guys who couldn't even finish the game. As a nice twist, they don't force that guilt on you, so if you're indifferent to the fumbling things you won't feel cheated for missing an emotional cue.
To be honest, I was put off Heavy Rain by two things, in-game:
1. They didn't tap into that mechanic's potential. This sounds like a lame criticism, but if even I, self-proclaimed idiot, could think of ways to use that mechanic for heavier emotional involvement, then I'm sure David genius Cage can do so as well. Yet, he didn't.
2. The story, especially for something so relentlessly story-driven. Now, don't get me wrong: I love a good crime novel/movie/game. I'll gladly upload a photo of some of my crime novels to prove it. So it wasn't the serial killer aspect that put me off: it was just how badly they trussed it up. They used every cliche in the book (no pun intended), and then they trussed those up as well.
Honestly, the only thing that game has going for it is the multiple choice angle. It's great that you missed Mad Jack. (Trust me on that one.) But that's not incentive for me to re-play the game any time soon. It'd be like reading a bad novel by James Patterson, and then reading another one in the hopes it'd be better. No thanks.
So while I'm glad that you enjoyed it, I myself did not.
Question: you seem French (your tendency to put spaces between your commas and periods was one hint, and right now I just noticed your location), so if you don't mind me asking: what's the French dialogue like? The English dialogue's terrible, but some of it feels like it was simply lost in translation.
I suppose you were expecting too much about the game. And you're nitpicking. I don't play interactive Nobel prizes, but I suppose I'm low on standards. I don't know how you can feel cheated by a game. It's a game. I'm still convinced you took the game for something marketing said it was. And like every marketing, it was false promises. I knew about Heavy Rain only a few month ago, only watched one demo scene (and played the demo), never knew David Cage before, never heard his (apparently) pretentious declarations. It could change everything. For me, Heavy Rain is a surprise, and an incredibly good surprise (the last games were Infamous, where your choices don't change anything, Prototype, five minutes of fun, and Uncharted 2, no moral, no scenario, massive killing in beautiful corridor-like backgrounds).
Okay. Shadow of the colossus, mature. Heavy Rain, Cop. And Flower (a game I love) is mature because you feel guilty when you see the wasteland of the fourth level (at least, I felt). It’s not ? I don’t get it. Wait, wait ! I felt guilty playing Heavy Rain ! No, no, it’s not mature, sorry. Last Guardian, even if we don’t know anything about it, will be mature I presume. In fact, mature means Ueda, maybe.
I'm french, but I played the game in english, because the actors are not french. I started a new story in french, but was too much involved in the game (when you become to dream about it, it's a sign to stop ^^) so I'm not very far, and I can't tell. I also am unable to see what's so terrible in the english version. My average english should inform you about that :P
(for those who did not play Heavy Rain yet, don't read the spoiler marks here… it would really ruin everything)
If you want some of David Cage's pretentious declarations, check this and this.
Shadow of the Colossus isn't kicking heavy weight, so it gets an easier pass to maturity. Heavy Rain is trying to kick around heavy weight, and not being very good at it. IMO.
Flower is pretty great. I don't know if I'd call it mature - it's emotionally involving, though.
You know, it's strange - there aren't that many games that deal with hard-hitting themes. I'm trying to think of anything that deals with alcoholism or something. I got nothin'.
I bought it on Friday and I have to say it's one of the most immersive and exciting gaming experiences I've had in many years. I feel it's very much an adventure game and it's innovative model is something that other developers can build on in the future.
I'm interested to know what Telltale and adventure game fans think of it.
I haven't tried it yet. It's one of those games that will probably stop selling well in a few months, creating a price drop, which is when i'll strike!
The game itself is quite dark and game noir but I don't see any reason why the engine couldn't be utilised for other types of games. A sequel to Fate of Atlantis in this kind of format could be potentially mindblowing.
Well I just finished Heavy Rain. I'm not the type to throw 13 hours into a game in just a few days but Heavy Rain had me hooked. This was one of the best games I have ever played. I am sick of games which are just about murdering people for enjoyment. This game will make you THINK! The story is fantastic. I was skeptical about the gameplay but it completely worked. Being put in a situation, with 4 words swirling around your head, and having 30 seconds to choose one, and what you choose will determine whether your character lives or dies is one hell of an experience.. Life is all about the choices we make, and heavy rain played this out brilliantly. Nothing is ever black or white, you are making tough emotional decisions. I hope this game sells millions because if it does it could change the video game industry, and what we accept as storytelling..
I don't understand. Say, the QTE is opening a door. Can you just somehow... not open the door? And leave?
Well, yes, in certain situations that's possible. For example, in one scene you're visiting the mother of a murdered child (the game is about a serial killer kidnapping and murdering children), and after you leave, you see another guy entering her apartment, and hear her scream inside. You can go back in and help her (by beating the shit out of the guy... or getting beaten the shit out of you), or you can just ignore her screams and leave. Helping her opens up a new branch for the storyline, whereas not helping her directs the storyline a little differently.
Well, yes, in certain situations that's possible. For example, in one scene you're visiting the mother of a murdered child (the game is about a serial killer kidnapping and murdering children), and after you leave, you see another guy entering her apartment, and hear her scream inside. You can go back in and help her (by beating the shit out of the guy... or getting beaten the shit out of you), or you can just ignore her screams and leave. Helping her opens up a new branch for the storyline, whereas not helping her directs the storyline a little differently.
Okay, firstly, I knew it was about a serial killer already.
Secondly, I mean, like in this video (which is really neat and gives an example of how the 'interactive storytelling' works):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjNsqPxO2Ws&feature=player_embedded at the very beggining oyu have to click left to open the door. Can you just... not open the door?
Comments
Won't be getting it though. 360, that's how I roll :rolleyes:
What I can say is I love it. I saw it molested almost everywhere. In fact, it’s just a dividing game. It divides people who play only to win, and people who play also for pleasure. Because yes, there is no challenge for the player in this game. Like in TGC’s Flower, for example. Sure. But there is a story, an atmosphere, you’re investigating, you’re living, you can do a lot of things, and also a lot of useless things. I read a lot of people complaining or mocking of some things… like the people walking… oh my god, people walking at home, I’ve never seen that before, why can’t I run ? Oh my god, I can’t flip myself in a quarter of a second, I’m compelled to move my body, that’s so disappointing. Oh my god, I can drink orange juice and that’s useless. Oh my god, there is a tutorial and it’s easy.
The game is all about how do you think you should act. Should I, should I not, which way, quickly, slowly, aggressive, calmly… you have the choice. To do the best. Or not doing anything.
To be honest, I don’t care about challenge. I’m not the kind of people who look at high scores, who collect trophies to show them proudly to other virtual trophies hunters, I mainly play for pleasure. For stories, or beautiful things, to live something.
For sure, this time, you’re not in the army, trained to kill, born to run, compelled to wear green cloth. You won’t have much the pleasure to kill bots or kill your friends by the Internet. To hide from "old times bad times" german soldiers, and heal war wounds.
But well… the job is well done. You’re oscillating between nightmares, trauma, reality, futuristic investigation, old fashion investigation, fat charismatic guy, shaking young FBI agent, puzzled man, quite good looking woman, that’s the deal. You’re walking.
Yeah. You’re walking. Under a heavy rain.
I'd no dream, but i'm def borrowing a friends PS3 ASAP
Seconded. I didn't dream, but it's certainly been on my mind. I haven't wanted a game this badly since Dead Rising. (And how wonderful it was when I finally bought a 360 and a copy of said game.)
It's getting harder and harder to not seek a playthrough vid online.
A) I love "Shenmue".
I just hate Heavy Rain so, so much.
I've spewed this hate on other places, so I'll just vent out one more time here and leave.
A lot of it is just a reaction to my hatred of David "Citizen Kane" Cage, but a decent chunk of it is a reaction to Heavy Rain being CSI and thinking it's The Wire. Actually, CSI has somewhat believable dialogue. Heavy Rain is just unbelievably stupid. Why are people calling this incredible? It's not doing anything different, and what it does it's doing rather badly.
I admire that they tried doing a different kind of story. I admire that they didn't have you shooting people all the time. But that is not exclusive to Heavy Rain, and yet Sony and Quantic Dream are pretending that this is the case. Neither is the game the first "emotional" experience - so what gives?
I mean, the "sleazy place" scene
The thing that hurts me the most is that Cage actually believes this is a "mature" game, when clearly it is not. I'm dying to know if he believes it's a "thinking man's game" too.
Anyways, I'm taking a very large pass on this one. I have a hunch I'll be a lot more involved in The Last Guardian, and I might as well begin saving cash.
*backs off thread*
And what might just make small changes in one scene is going to make bigger changes halfway through the story.
...
...
...
...as soon as they make a PC version that is. PS3... HA!
Well you might have to wait a while... because I don't think PS3 emulators are coming out any time soon.
I just hope Heavy Rain will not become a "Push A to not die" game like Fahrenheit in the end.
So far I liked what I saw. Might give it a try. (once I get a PS3 that is
Cool, some good old fight, let’s go ^^
So, in first place, take a game for what it is and not for what marketing is calling it. You wouldn’t believe how many best gaming experience ever made are hitting stores every week.
Then, it’s great to tell things, but it’s better when your have some arguments. Because for you, what makes a mature game ? Amounts of blood ? Massive killing ?
Yes it’s a mature game, because it plays with your feelings, with your conscience, it lets you make choices, and not the most obvious ones. Of course, you can be sentimentally handicapped, I’m sure there is some people who will never empathize for a dad who lost his son and who sees his perfect life getting broken by this single element. Of course, I’m sure it’s not mature nowadays, when you’re stuffed with violence, to make choices to save someone you love. If it’s worth killing for. If it’s worth dying for. Because yes, in lot of games now, you kill, you die, and zap, three seconds after, you’re up to kill again. But when you look at it from a human side, like a movie, you know, that dark room where people cry when the hero dies, this game is Mature with a capital M. I won’t let my children play that. Not because it’s violent. Not because you see boobies. But because there is some choices a human should never have to do. Never.
But you’re compelled to do it, and your feelings will lead you to the way you think you should act. I finished the game today, trying to be fair in every scene. However, it’s not that easy, because sometimes you doubt, you misjudge, or simply fail at some tasks just too difficult to realize. Sometimes, your character is so freaked you just can’t do the right thing because you can’t read, because it’s shaking, because you don’t have enough time. And you do, just like when you’re stressed, something you regret. If only I had more time to think. If only I was not afraid of anything…
My character was in a very bad posture. I had to hold more than six buttons for many seconds, discovering one each new second (R1, then L1, then R2, L2, triangle, square, O, X). It saved my character, but to success, I was compelled to push it with my nose.
You know what ? that’s fun to judge a game you don’t know. To put some more arguments from my side, I finished the game as a total loser. The game itself named my save «*total impunity*». I made what I thought being the good choices. But maybe it wasn’t. Or maybe I failed at the most important scenes, I can’t know because everything in the game is related. What I know, is that I want to play again, and this time I hope there will be justice. I’ll do my best for that.
You know, in real life, when you’re fighting against somebody, if you fight longer, you won’t win anything for that, except more bruises. Right ? That’s exactly what’s this game is about. You can sometime fail, you can sometime success, sometime you just can’t change the way things are, it’s fate. But sometime, you can. Maybe you could just try, to see… Remember this first fight you talked about ? You can, if you want, just go away. You won’t have any wound. If you do well, you will have just a small scratch. If you do bad, you’ll be totally covered with bruises. Like in your everyday life, some choices will change your world forever. Some others won’t change anything.
Have fun with your gigantic mythologic shouting chicken.
Someone talked about Shenmue. Well, there is a little bit of Shenmue in Heavy Rain. First, in the massive use of MoCap, second on the human scale of the game (real objects you can use, contextual actions, feelings matters, and walking where it’s no place to run), and then of course, Quick Time Events.
But Shenmue has a semi-open world, where you have a quest, and you can totally forget about it. You can talk to every stranger in the street, and walk in any store you want, just to buy some tomato thingies. Heavy Rain is a lot more dense, you follow the story, you can only talk to some main characters, you can’t just walk around the street day and night to play afterburner. This is a design choice, because you can’t be free and let four stories being totally free. In Heavy Rain, you follow different stories, to see the investigation from different points of view, and the narration is quite precise and clever, so you can’t be as free as Shenmue let you be.
Shenmue II is still my best gaming experience in my life.
But Heavy Rain is something worth to try.
It's got a lot of QTE, in fact if you not walking it's a QTE. I love this game because I also love Shenmue and Shenmue II. Hopefully*Cough* Sega *Cough* WIll realize that there needs to be a shenmue III. The game is like Shenmue just without fighting.
I'm just irked by David Cage comparing himself to Orson Welles.
What? No. Come on.
A mature game is a game that deals with issues like a responsible adult. Technically, you could make a mature children's game.
It's great that the game plays with your emotions, but there's been games like that before. Tales of Monkey Island is a recent example. Team Ico's games come to mind. However, an emotional game isn't necessarily a mature one.
Even the killer's motive was paper-thin. It felt cheap - it was cheap. It almost felt like it was there just for shock value, or maybe to adapt an Agatha Christie-style surprise where it didn't really belong. It almost felt like Saw.
A parent trying to save their child's life is heavy stuff, don't get me wrong. I'm sure that resonates with people. Yet maturity is achieved by *how* you handle things, not by what you handle.
To be frank, I think the "mature" tag is just marketing. The game's smacks of CSI with a grim atmosphere, though even CSI has better dialogue. (Maybe a lot of it gets lost in translation, I don't know.) The real yank of the chain is that there is so much potential, and they trussed it up. That bums me out more than anything: with real writers, this game could really have been something. Part of me wishes a French George Pelecanos or Michael Chabon would have been there.
Dark doesn't make you mature. Breasts, drugs or murder don't make you mature. Bad Lieutenant and Eastern Promises are both dark crime stories, like Heavy Rain, but their exploration of the darker side of human nature is handled with care; there is shock value, but it feels earned. That is what makes them so powerful.
Regarding the choices: hey, it's great that there are some real consequences (even if some of the consequences are a little bit). But too many of the choices area little contrived and forced.
Well, your kids are technically still sitting on a couch. You're the parent, though.
That's pretty much the only reason I still have any residual interest in Heavy Rain. The resulting bruises from a badly-fought punch-out are just little touches - I've seen that kind of thing before. I know the little things are what make something work. If you fail, you die. That's nice. Game-wise, I mean.
But I can't be sold on something if the broad strokes aren't working either, and the game fails a lot of the time.
I might buy it for <= $20; not more.
El Pollo Diablo?
(And that’s too funny to judge the motivations of a mental unbalanced guy. He is unbalanced. That’s why he is a serial killer.)
Then, for you, what is a mature game ? I mean, Heavy Rain is not the only mature game, of course, but it is, indeed ! How can you deny such an evidence ?
Anyway, I don’t care, if it’s mature or not, for me it feels like, and that’s all. I don’t care about which category it should fit well to please you. Okay, that’s not a mature game. I still don’t understand what it is then, but I suppose I’m too dumb to understand, so I don’t care. Let’s say it’s a dark game, you like it like that ?
And of course, this game is not a revolution or else, but who cares ? It achieves his goal, in being an intense story to play, where your actions can have different consequences. And there is not much games to do that. With that level of music, graphics, acting, animation, and possibilities. In fact, not a single one. But you’re so much pissed off of the marketing, and I don’t how, but watched too much footage to just have any chance to like it.
Heavy Rain is a unique experience, it does not invent anything, but it uses known techniques very well to make you live something. And you won’t live anything, believe me, because you know too much.
Too bad, but you won money ^^
According to a few books I've read, serial killers usually have some motive. In some cases, it's a rage against their parents. Sometimes, it's self-hatred taken out on others - for example, a self-hating gay psychopath could kill gay men. Either way, it can be traced to a series of incidents in a person's past.
Let's say it's a "cop game". I'd also say Shadow of the Colossus was mature, or at least somewhat mature, because it made you feel terribly guilty for killing those creatures. The camera pans up, you see their face, you think they look frightened. Boom - instant regret. I know a couple of guys who couldn't even finish the game. As a nice twist, they don't force that guilt on you, so if you're indifferent to the fumbling things you won't feel cheated for missing an emotional cue.
To be honest, I was put off Heavy Rain by two things, in-game:
1. They didn't tap into that mechanic's potential. This sounds like a lame criticism, but if even I, self-proclaimed idiot, could think of ways to use that mechanic for heavier emotional involvement, then I'm sure David genius Cage can do so as well. Yet, he didn't.
2. The story, especially for something so relentlessly story-driven. Now, don't get me wrong: I love a good crime novel/movie/game. I'll gladly upload a photo of some of my crime novels to prove it. So it wasn't the serial killer aspect that put me off: it was just how badly they trussed it up. They used every cliche in the book (no pun intended), and then they trussed those up as well.
Honestly, the only thing that game has going for it is the multiple choice angle. It's great that you missed Mad Jack. (Trust me on that one.) But that's not incentive for me to re-play the game any time soon. It'd be like reading a bad novel by James Patterson, and then reading another one in the hopes it'd be better. No thanks.
So while I'm glad that you enjoyed it, I myself did not.
Question: you seem French (your tendency to put spaces between your commas and periods was one hint, and right now I just noticed your location), so if you don't mind me asking: what's the French dialogue like? The English dialogue's terrible, but some of it feels like it was simply lost in translation.
Okay. Shadow of the colossus, mature. Heavy Rain, Cop. And Flower (a game I love) is mature because you feel guilty when you see the wasteland of the fourth level (at least, I felt). It’s not ? I don’t get it. Wait, wait ! I felt guilty playing Heavy Rain ! No, no, it’s not mature, sorry. Last Guardian, even if we don’t know anything about it, will be mature I presume. In fact, mature means Ueda, maybe.
I'm french, but I played the game in english, because the actors are not french. I started a new story in french, but was too much involved in the game (when you become to dream about it, it's a sign to stop ^^) so I'm not very far, and I can't tell. I also am unable to see what's so terrible in the english version. My average english should inform you about that :P
(for those who did not play Heavy Rain yet, don't read the spoiler marks here… it would really ruin everything)
Shadow of the Colossus isn't kicking heavy weight, so it gets an easier pass to maturity. Heavy Rain is trying to kick around heavy weight, and not being very good at it. IMO.
Flower is pretty great. I don't know if I'd call it mature - it's emotionally involving, though.
You know, it's strange - there aren't that many games that deal with hard-hitting themes. I'm trying to think of anything that deals with alcoholism or something. I got nothin'.
I bought it on Friday and I have to say it's one of the most immersive and exciting gaming experiences I've had in many years. I feel it's very much an adventure game and it's innovative model is something that other developers can build on in the future.
I'm interested to know what Telltale and adventure game fans think of it.
Cheers,
Jack
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15160
I like how you covered your ass very quickly there
Look at Max!
Okay, firstly, I knew it was about a serial killer already.
Secondly, I mean, like in this video (which is really neat and gives an example of how the 'interactive storytelling' works):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjNsqPxO2Ws&feature=player_embedded at the very beggining oyu have to click left to open the door. Can you just... not open the door?
It's like an "Choose your Adventure Book" on Steroids. And HD.