Sam & Max The Devil's Playhouse: The City That Dares Not Sleep... Is here!

245

Comments

  • edited August 2010
    the episode was good but some things could have been improved

    1. it doesnt explain how Sal, Paperwaite, and Skunkape are still alive
    2. the main villain turns out not to be a villain
    3. no final boss battle
    4. i really don't like the way max was brought back.
  • edited August 2010
    What are the differences between the two DVDs? I don't get it. I mean, if you check out the store, you can see that the First Season DVD is collector. And the Second Season DVD is collector. So why is this a simple AND a collector DVD there? And is the price of the collector one will remain the same or do people who already bought the season will have some kind of reduction? (not complaining, just asking) Thanks in advance for your explaination! :)
  • edited August 2010
    What's up with people wanting every little detail fully explained? It's Sam & Max for Christ's sake! A talking dog and lagomorph duo. When they had to go to the moon for one of their cases, they used the desota to get there. There wasn't any past indication that it could fly, and there wasn't any explanation for it either. Some things in the series just don't need to be explained.
  • edited August 2010
    What's up with people wanting every little detail fully explained? It's Sam & Max for Christ's sake! A talking dog and lagomorph duo. When they had to go to the moon for one of their cases, they used the DeSoto to get there. There wasn't any past indication that it could fly, and there wasn't any explanation for it either. Some things in the series just don't need to be explained.

    That shouldn't continue beyond the fourth wall, though. The chap immediately above is asking what the difference is between standard and collector DVDs.

    And I hear what you're saying but Sam & Max, like any good serial or film, should have fans caring what happens. If there are huge gaps (note: I didn't say plotholes), people are going to want answers.
  • edited August 2010
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    That shouldn't continue beyond the fourth wall, though. The chap immediately above is asking what the difference is between standard and collector DVDs.

    And... it's bad?

    EDIT: Wow, sorry I misunderstood, I thought of your message like that: "What's up with people wanting every little detail fully explained?" -> "That shouldn't continue beyond the fourth wall, though." Well, thank you and sorry for reading too fast!
  • edited August 2010
    Cheri wrote: »
    And I'd like to add that whoever wrote Papierwaite this episode is a freaking genius. He was absolutely hilarious. And was it just me, or at the beginning was he checking out Momma Bosco?

    I just think they're BFFs; they probably met at a class about Dimensional Travel at a community college somewhere.
  • edited August 2010
    Just beat it a few minutes ago. I'm a bit mixed on the ending...

    While I do appreciate that they managed to really tug at the heartstrings and pull out something this emotional, it really makes me miss the last two seasons. As someone (I forget who) pointed out when They Stole Max's Brain came out, it's sad to see these formerly always funny and, I dunno, "feel-good" characters put into such emotional turmoil. It didn't bother me back when that post was made, but after this episode, it does. It's sorta like when you find out your childhood idol is in jail for manslaughter and cheated on all five of his wives.

    Still, I did like the episode overall. The entire lead-up to the ending appropriately epic, as was the big reveal of The Narrator. Though the best part for me had to be the opening. Satan's return, Lincoln's hysterical reintroduction, and hearing Curt say "ass-whooping" all had me practically rolling on the floor.

    And now for my final ranking for this season:
    1. Beyond the Alley of the Dolls
    2. The Tomb of Sammun-Mak
    3. The City That Dares Not Sleep
    4. The Penal Zone
    5. They Stole Max's Brain!
  • edited August 2010
    Just finished it and wow, just wow. For once I truly have nothing I feel like nitpicking about. Amazing humor, insane number of references, more crazy plot twists and the end was more gripping than any video game I remember playing and still wrapped up with a perfect return to form. Perfection, guys.
  • edited August 2010
    Also just finished it and I loved it. Had to play it all in one sitting, couldn't tear myself away until the conclusion. Fantastic ending to a great season. Here's hoping for season 4 in the not too distant future.
  • edited August 2010
    hamza721 wrote: »
    the episode was good but some things could have been improved

    1. it doesnt explain how Sal, Paperwaite, and Skunkape are still alive
    2. the main villain turns out not to be a villain
    3. no final boss battle
    4. i really don't like the way max was brought back.

    1. They never were dead at all. The clones wouldn't have killed Skunkape, Papierwaite and Norrington survived the fall and Sal's death was hastily brushed under the carpet a bit. It was obvious he would return anyway.

    2. I thought this was a nice twist. It was a bit random but one of the many great scenes in the episode.

    3. Yes, this did annoy me. The closest thing to a final battle was the confrontation between
    Flint Paper/Sam and Girl Stinky/Skunkape which was an entertaining scene (one of my favourites this season) but it didn't feel final.

    4. This felt a bit off indeed but after the emotional ending, I think it was justified and was a way to hold some of the sadness of Max Prime's death while also allowing for future seasons.


    There was one MAJOR letdown in the episode which was for me
    the death of Sal. It was far too anticlimatic and dissapointing. It could have been made far more effective. Also, the lack of explanation about his and Stinky's backstory was annoying as well as Stinky's unexplained sudden change of heart towards Skunkape
    .


    Now that I think of it, there were quite a few great moments in this final episode. My top 5:

    5.
    Satan and Jurgen's cameo (perfect length and it fit really well with the feeling of the episode. Nice to see them again.)
    4.
    The Narrator turns good (something different and refreshing to the series. I liked him as a character during the few moments we saw him.)
    3.
    Skunkape and Stinky's final stand (the entire scene in the cloning chamber and then the fitting fate for the two villains. Skunkape has been evil in 3 out of 5 episodes and this finally felt like justice had been served at last.)
    2.
    The villain reveal (The way that that black door opened... I must admit I partly expected it but not in the way that it occurred. And the truth behind the title as well!)
    1.
    Max's death (Once again Telltale showing how they can work emotion into this series and this final moment played on this at the highest possible level. I was skeptical that Max would not come back but there was definitely a brief moment by the water when I genuinely believed that it was over...


    I'd like to know how much of the season was planned from the start (the development of Skunkape and Papierwaite?)
  • edited August 2010
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    That shouldn't continue beyond the fourth wall, though. The chap immediately above is asking what the difference is between standard and collector DVDs.
    Uh, sure, but my post wasn't a response to his. He posted it while I was still typing my post. I'm talking about people who feel
    Sal surviving, amongst other things
    , needs to be explained.
  • edited August 2010
    Wow Telltale. Amazing finish to the season. You somehow get to make it seem crazy and familiar at the same time. Perfect for the Sam & Max universe!
    there is 2 endings, but they are very similar, you get to a point when sam talks about max, you can choose adventuring or crimefighting, the ending is different depending on what one you chose

    I had to replay from there after you said it, and I can't say which ending I like best. I liked both for their own reasons. But they are pretty similar.
    Normally I would say Deus Ex Machina is a cop out, but it just fits so perfectly in the Sam & Max world.
  • edited August 2010
    I think the best way to deal with these kind of situations would be to acknowledge they happened, but jokingly make clear that they're no longer of any relevance to the current plot.
    For example a dialogue option with Sal would be: (really minor spoilers)
    Sam: "Didn't you fall to a sudden, but certain and painful death some time ago?"
    Sal: "Ummmmm, not that I can remember."
  • edited August 2010
    fhqwhgads wrote: »
    Normally I would say Deus Ex Machina is a cop out, but it just fits so perfectly in the Sam & Max world.
    Normally, I would agree with you, but in the context of the dramatic ending it just felt really anticlimatic to me. But that's probably because I thought the dramatic ending felt really out of place to begin with!
  • edited August 2010
    Another thing (and I'm just going to be paranoid and spoiler everything):
    Max is always portrayed as kinda the 'throw-away' character. It is alluded to a few times (no reference though, going on memory) that Sam will outlive Max and he uses 'clones' or somesuch to replace Max every time. Killing off Max and having him immediately replaced by a duplicate actually IS cannon.
  • edited August 2010
    B-because he tried to kill Max and take half of the city with him? That seemed obvious.
    That's strange, but I still didn't manage to see him as the "villain". To me Skunkape and Girl Stinky are really evil. Max's super-ego triggers the chain of events that ultimately make Max so epic and heroic. Technically you're right, but I think he's something more than a "bad guy".
  • edited August 2010
    ...and I thought last episode was Telltale's finest. This totally proved me wrong. I'm having a hard time writing this because I can't even express how fantastic it was. Though I was a bit surprised how easy the final puzzle was. I thought that ToMI's ending
    (when Guybrush uses the ring)
    was your best ending, but this was even better.

    You guys tell the best (and probably most emotional) tales stories in games. Never let that go. I just want to thank you guys for a fantastic season, and keep up the amazing job on all your future games... including Season 4. :)
    Telltale, I now want to see concept art for the giant Sam monster. :p
  • edited August 2010
    Uh, sure, but my post wasn't a response to his. He posted it while I was still typing my post. I'm talking about people who feel
    Sal surviving, amongst other things
    , needs to be explained.

    Apologies, I actually agree with you. But there are some things, eg. the newborn and Grandpa Stinky that could do with clearing up. Then again, that's what Season 4 is for, if/when TT decide to make it.
  • edited August 2010
    I thought this episode was great, especially when
    it turns out the Narrator is actually a game character
    (I knew they *could* do that, I just wasn't expecting that they *would*).

    The last 10% of the game seemed a bit of a mess to me, though - never really figured out why they had
    swapped Grandpa Stinky's brain with an ape
    ; that whole complicated plan
    with Stinky/Skunkape in the cloning chamber
    was just confusing. The ending itself didn't really tie up. At least in the episode (
    chariots of the gods
    ) where they had
    time travel
    , it sort-of made sense what you were doing with it, whereas this doesn't make sense unless
    the other Max is from a parallel universe
    .
  • edited August 2010
    lombre wrote: »
    And now for my final ranking for this season:
    Hey, those are mine!

    But yeah, to offset the overwhelming positiveness of all posters here, I am going to say why I think 305 was kind of a letdown. Not as bad as 303, but with all the buildup I was really expecting more. I am going on full-on rant modus, since there is so much positiveness around already I don't really need adding more. Not that I am really good with doing that while ranting anyway.

    Obviously, the following text is riddled with SPOILERS:
    First of all; Jurgen. It was pretty obvious he was a replacement. The director is in the portrait list at the begin, and she obviously had to take place behind the camera. Lack of season 3 skin probably prevented that, so they threw in Jurgen. Using his 302 skin. The dialogue added wasn't good enough to masquerade this. He also got very VERY few lines making his whole appearance rather a degradement to the product than an addition. Shame, since Jurgen is such a good character.
    Another minus point is, due to the lack of Max' physic powers TTG had to return to regular style adventure puzzles. And I have to say, you seem to have your touch a little in this regard. 3 puzzles solved by corndogs? (303 deja vu!!!)
    Worse where some of the badly designed puzzles. Most prominent being Superball having to turn around, and the Ant Farm puzzle. It's not logical superball spontaniously spends more time with his back when he's the only one remaining wathcing. And having to repeat an action 3x for it to have result like the antfarm I haven't seen since Runaway. And I was happy not to see them. Shame on you TTG.
    Third was the Maxlessness. Sam & Max just doesn't quite work without our lovable triggerhappy lagomorph. And while the spores where added to get our Max-quota, it just ain't the same. Especially since "SLEEEEEP" turned annoying faster than Sammun-Mak chanting. I could do without that reminder... every.... single... conversation.
    Fourth annoyance where the controls when being Maxchtlulu. The street was quite expansive, but due to not being able to see your feet, or the road, or the turns, it became a mess quite fast. Most of the times paths I thought where clear where just lower buildings amongst the scyscrapers. Not the best way to use the new control method. Not at all. I was moonwalking into buildings pretty much 90% of the time as a result. Pretty hard too to find the buildings you are looking for, especially the cloning facility in the end, since you get no real suggestion from the dialogue where in Max modus to look. So it pretty much resulted in randomly walking about waving my mouse over the screen till it turned green. Which didn't quite help much too since it often highlighted the wrong section (armpit building when wanting BoscoTech for example).
    Last is the ending of course. While the mood certainly was set with the Maxplosion, and later extended by the failed cloning... and hold throughout the entire endsequence, it's enormously cheapened by the "Deus Ex Machina" that restores Max. Setting up 15+ minutes of "Max is gone" and then resolve it in 1 minute? Might have tried spending a bit more time on that rather than 'I just lost you. But hey, here you are again so it's all good. The end.' ... ESPECIALLY since the entirety he's been slapping and bitching at the Spores for pretending to be his Max. And then he instantly accepts this new Max? It doesn't work for me.
    All in all, these 5 points make me unable to enjoy this one more than 304 or 302. A pity, since there was so much potential :(.

    EDIT:
    I actually thought of a point 6.
    The Chtonic Destroyer.
    It was made pretty clear in the first 4 episodes that only Max could use physic powers due to his brain and all. So why is it that suddenly, after the Toybox is already destroyed, "ordinary people" like Sam and Sybil (no offense) can use toys? Some kind of unexplained side-effect of the box's destruction or something or a genuine plothole?
  • edited August 2010
    The Chtonic Destroyer.
    It was made pretty clear in the first 4 episodes that only Max could use physic powers due to his brain and all. So why is it that suddenly, after the Toybox is already destroyed, "ordinary people" like Sam and Sybil (no offense) can use toys? Some kind of unexplained side-effect of the box's destruction or something or a genuine plothole?
    I think normal people can only use the toys whilst inside Max.
  • edited August 2010
    Did the actor who played Sam have a sore throat? as he sounds slightly different in 305 - still good sounding but just curious.
  • edited August 2010
    First of all; Jurgen. It was pretty obvious he was a replacement. The director is in the portrait list at the begin, and she obviously had to take place behind the camera. Lack of season 3 skin probably prevented that, so they threw in Jurgen. Using his 302 skin. The dialogue added wasn't good enough to masquerade this. He also got very VERY few lines making his whole appearance rather a degradement to the product than an addition. Shame, since Jurgen is such a good character.
    The WARP director was right there in the credits chasing a gorilla, meaning that if they wanted to they could've used her instead of Jurgen, but they chose not to. It makes more sense for Jurgen to be the cameraman since he works for Satan, the director doesn't really have a reason to be filming him.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited August 2010
    For example a dialogue option with Sal would be: (really minor spoilers)
    Sam: "Didn't you fall to a sudden, but certain and painful death some time ago?"
    Sal: "Ummmmm, not that I can remember."

    If you click on Sal a few times out in the alley behind BoscoTech, Sam reminisces about how Sal's probably still smarting after all of the stuff that happened to him in 304. One of those look-ats includes Sam talking about the huge fall he took.
    Obviously, the following text is riddled with SPOILERS:
    First of all; Jurgen. It was pretty obvious he was a replacement. The director is in the portrait list at the begin, and she obviously had to take place behind the camera. Lack of season 3 skin probably prevented that, so they threw in Jurgen. Using his 302 skin. The dialogue added wasn't good enough to masquerade this. He also got very VERY few lines making his whole appearance rather a degradement to the product than an addition. Shame, since Jurgen is such a good character.

    The last time Jurgen was seen in present day, he was Satan's personal assistant in Hell, answering phones and doing reception. That's why he was behind the camera in 305. Also it was a chance for him to make his misunderstood art. But mostly (as revealed when they leave), because Satan made him.

    Sorry this episode didn't totally land for you, though!
  • edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    If you click on Sal a few times out in the alley behind BoscoTech, Sam reminisces about how Sal's probably still smarting after all of the stuff that happened to him in 304. One of those look-ats includes Sam talking about the huge fall he took.
    How often should you be able to do this? He only re-appeared once for me (which gave the mentioned line). Although never again after that...

    @ Jurgen: So the portrait of the WARP Director was there just for the credits? I find that hard to believe. Oh well...
    Sorry this episode didn't totally land for you, though!
    :(
    Yeah.
  • edited August 2010
    How often should you be able to do this? He only re-appeared once for me (which gave the mentioned line). Although never again after that...

    Keep clicking in the Dark Alley, even if Sal is not here.
  • edited August 2010
    It just kept re-using the same line, so I stopped doing that after the 3rd time.
  • edited August 2010
    The last 10% of the game seemed a bit of a mess to me, though - never really figured out why they had
    swapped Grandpa Stinky's brain with an ape
    ; that whole complicated plan
    with Stinky/Skunkape in the cloning chamber
    was just confusing.
    It's explained if you go over to the ledge closest to the control thing Stinky and Skunkape are on before you set up the scene to get the thing you need from Skunkape.
    Stinky wants to kill Grandpa Stinky, but Grandpa Stinky can't die by any methods she and Sal had tried. However, Stinky says that Flint Paper can kill anything. So they put Grandpa Stinky's brain in one of the minions and then sent a bunch of the cloned minions at Flint Paper so that Flint Paper would kill them all, including the one with Grandpa Stinky's brain inside. The point of all the other clones is so that Flint doesn't know which minion is actually Grandpa Stinky and kills him by mistake.
  • edited August 2010
    mjc0961 wrote: »
    It's explained if you go over to the ledge closest to the control thing Stinky and Skunkape are on before you set up the scene to get the thing you need from Skunkape.
    Stinky wants to kill Grandpa Stinky, but Grandpa Stinky can't die by any methods she and Sal had tried. However, Stinky says that Flint Paper can kill anything. So they put Grandpa Stinky's brain in one of the minions and then sent a bunch of the cloned minions at Flint Paper so that Flint Paper would kill them all, including the one with Grandpa Stinky's brain inside. The point of all the other clones is so that Flint doesn't know which minion is actually Grandpa Stinky and kills him by mistake.
    Yeah, well, instead of... Crushing Grandpa Stinky's brain when given the chance... You know, like, with a hammer...
  • edited August 2010
    Falanca wrote: »
    Yeah, well, instead of... Crushing Grandpa Stinky's brain when given the chance... You know, like, with a hammer...
    They're villains. Villains are stupid.
  • edited August 2010
    I thought 305 and the season as a whole were both absolutely excellent. They're ranked among the best gaming (well, the best general entertainment) experiences of my life. I may have a longer review later, but for now I just wanted to thank Telltale for what I just experienced c:
  • edited August 2010
    Did anyone else who ever played Silent Hill Shattered Memories also saw some similarities between its ending and a scene from the episode?

    The 'reveal' scene?
  • edited August 2010
    they can go to the moon in the series with a big red button, they should have shown it tho the first time they left and re-entered earth.
  • edited August 2010
    people can use the toys while inside max, thats why sam can also do astral projection inside max, makes sense to me
  • edited August 2010
    sal is alive because cockroaches can survive massive falls, papierwaite is alive because yog soggoth healed him (he must have been unconscious not dead at the end of 304) and skunkape never died in 304 he was just taken by the sam clones, and all they do is walk into things saying "toys", they can't even open doors, so how could they possible kill skunkape?
  • edited August 2010
    he's not from another parallel universe, he simply got copied because of the events of 204, he has different memories because the events of 102 never happened to him, instead of going on moira's show he went on an adventure with sam in the time machine, so he's not from another dimension
  • edited August 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    If you click on Sal a few times out in the alley behind BoscoTech, Sam reminisces about how Sal's probably still smarting after all of the stuff that happened to him in 304. One of those look-ats includes Sam talking about the huge fall he took.

    Woops, totally didn't notice that :p
  • edited August 2010
    Well I just gotta say that I loved the episode, it was constantly hilarious until the surprisingly dramatic conclusion, and I thought the ending was done quite well but one thing still bothered me:
    the lack of interaction between Sam & Max in this episode.

    Don't get me wrong I still thought the episode was great, but Sam & Max together is what makes the Sam & Max series what it is. Sure we had Sam chat up some of the Max spores, and discuss the plot with Max's Superego but Sam and Max themselves never seemed to interact. Even within Max's body there didn't weren't many signs that Max seemed to think or care about Sam with the main exception being perhaps Max's inventory.

    The closest thing we ever got to some 'real' interaction was at the end when Max waves 'goodbye' to Sam before leaving for good. That scene was very powerful to me, and it showed that Max does care a lot about his best friend.

    Maybe that's why everyone is so torn up about the ending, (along with the fact that there are two of them) Sam & Max finally meet up again, but it's not really the Max that everyone was hoping for. We're happy to see them together again but we're also sad for the lose of the Max why sacrificed himself to save the world.

    I'm not really sure where I'm getting at with this long-winded post, but what I do know is that this is definatly one of the best bitter-sweet endings in any media I've experienced since it shows that it is possible to care deeply about the friendship between and canine detective and a sociopathic lagomorph.
  • edited September 2010
    I just loved the episode from begining to the end...especially the opening credits which I saw twice :)

    But there is one little thing: looking at Sam's notebook several psychic powers are mentioned - including the nutricion specs which PC users have never experienced. Seeing them in the notebook I hoped that they are available in this episode for PC users also...but no :(
  • edited September 2010
    By the way, will there be some subtitles on this DVD?
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