Tales of Monkey Island hated more than Escape??
With an article over at Kotaku asking about the chances of a new Monkey Island game done by the original creators (apparently Dave doesn't count), there are actually a lot of comments that seem to show a lot of hatred to TellTale Games and Tales of Monkey Island from the community, which I'm actually surprised at:
I never got into the Telltale installments of "Monkey Island", since the visuals are really.. well, they are not that good (to say it in a polite way) and I read much about the games being too easy.
Yeah i bought the Telltale Monkey Island series on the principle of supporting Monkey Island, played about halfway through the first installment and haven't been back to it. The sub par visual quality is what really let that "Tales" series down and i just couldn't get past it.
I also bought the first MI:SE on principle of supporting more MI games in the future, I tried playing the updated version and hated it, the animation (i know they wanted to keep it the same as the old version but it just didn't work) and the character design were some of the worst I've witnessed considering the wealth of original source material to draw from. MI2:SE is a marked improvement but still, I'd love to see a fresh new adventure game from the original creators, Monkey Island or not.
I concur. The game is good though the graphics aren't, imo. It just seems genetic esp how most of the characters use the same polygon base.
It isn't just MI, but also Sam and Max.
Even though i bought it and tried playing it, in my mind I'd just rather forget they put that 'Tales' series out.
Yeah, but honestly for me it did not feel like an authentic Monkey Island game play and visually wise,
What about TellTale?
inferior.
The people thinking that the Tales of Monkey Island' quality is remotely close to the two originals are strange.
I'd love to see them do a new Monkey Island full length game. No offense to the episodic one, it was good, but it did not compare to the originals (and the best IMHO was the 3rd game, Curse of Monkey Island).
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and here I thought CG modeled realistically shaded 3D characters with perfectly timed animations were better than pixelated characters who's mouths "blink" instead of open and close (though the pixels do more in the later games iirc)
Sounds to me like somone(s) is(are) pining for the olden days... yeah IN THEIR TIME those games had good graphics, but my today's standards, ToMI is 110% better!
What do these people want? Live actors? (I'd love to see a live-action scene and people complaining "the graphics aren't up-to-par" lol)
But what can you say.....
In any case, don't overlook the positive comments alongside the negative ones!
Really, bad graphics? Really?
We're both big Monkey Island fans, the only difference is that I gave Tales a chance.
I love Tales, even though it has it's drawbacks.
My friend just kept longing for the big bombastic big boxed adventure games of 10-15 years ago.
He didn't like the way the episodic formula worked with Monkey Island, and that's why he didn't give it a chance.
I think this might be one of the main reasons why people dislike it, so much has changed in the adventure gaming community since the last part and people refer Monkey Island to the classic times. The big budget times.
Ah well, we shouldn't worry too much about those people. Tales has a huge fanbase and Telltale an even bigger one. The way things are looking it's gonna be a long time until the second death of adventure games. Let's just enjoy the ride.
I think that sums it up pretty well.
I have always loved the original two MI games the best, and can come up with a whole host of reasons why I consider them better. But I can't deny that nostalgia is coloring my view (as I'm sure it is with many others).
I guess it comes down to whether someone wants to just replay the old games they remember and love over and over again, or give the current wave of adventure game additions to the genre a chance. I love the enthusiasm that Telltale has created and am thrilled to play the new games. There's much enjoyment to be found in them.
Curse of Monkey Island will always remain as my favorite game for the PC, I think it would have been easier just to call off the series with the 3rd game.
As for the graphics I thought they were great, better yet the game actually ran on my computer. I'm a happy costumer who ran the game on low quality and played it through. You can't really expect much better from an episodic game either.
There's underlying genius behind the games graphics that critics and Joe and Sally may not realize, but they're not game designers most likely...
Nor am I , but seriously the game was great for an episodic adventure, even if they reused graphics, they clearly had to cut corners and have experienced Lucas Arts staff collaborate with experienced TTG staff to make this project even possible.
Realistically the only reason some people hate Escape is because of it's graphics, it's controls. Well that's how I see it. As for graphics, I grow up with video games, I've seen far worse, in that time everything was going "real" 3D and it may not have been the top of the list but it will never reach the bottom. Either way the "graphics" give me a surreal experience that the 2D graphics didn't offer in the same way.
The controls although difficult at first are rather easy to understand and comprehend. I never really cared that they were different. It just made puzzles more interesting and innovative to me, it was a unique experience again adding to the experience.
The story, I forgive a few plot holes, and stupid ideas, after all I thought the game was funny and it did make me laugh. I had fun playing it. I don't have any real rules for the story, I love the games but they're not sacred to me...
http://www.scummbar.com/games/index.php?game=3&sub=info&todo=7
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/curse-of-monkey-island/reviews/reviewerId,15940/
And really, I don't think Telltale's graphics are bad in the least. They may not be photorealistic, but they have a nice style to theme.
I've heard the complaints about the episodic formula before, and I've never understood it. If you don't like episodes, just wait until they all come out and play them back to back. Same difference pretty much. It's not like there are huge gaps in the timeline between episodes.
I love Tales, personally, I actually rank it higher than the first game when it comes to enjoyment. Sure it wasn't perfect. I agree that the map puzzles got a little tiring (but then, almost every MI game has at least one annoying maze/map puzzle). I was also turned off by the overuse of the same character models, but they got better and better about that as the series went on. It's a shame so many people were willing to cast judgment after playing such a small amount of the game.
However, one of the interesting aspects of episodic gaming is that the games improve over the course of the series, which is good, but the flipside is also true: the worst parts, generally, are at the beginning. The part of the game where people get their first impression is also, sadly, where the bulk of the flaws are, and I don't think people are being unfair when they point out that Tales makes a pretty terrible first impression. For instance, I understand what they were going for with the generic repeated pirates, but to a new player, or somebody who remembers the series fondly and is suspicious of whether Telltale was qualified to make this sequel, it does come across as a sign of incredible laziness. Even though the move wasn't driven by laziness, it sends a very clear, lazy message. They changed this later, but for a lot of players, the damage was already done.
The only solution I can think of to this would be for Telltale to make a free, short, Episode Zero type of demo for each series, at least a couple of months before the first real episode, in order to gain important feedback regarding the direction that they're going. This allows them to incorporate that feedback, along with whatever other improvements they make, into the first proper episode, so when the game launches it can make a better first impression.
But it's true that if people don't like something from the start, they won't continue or try it again. I guess that people on the internet are too busy doing other things...
I had a similar problem with the first chapter. I played it all the way through, I laughed, I enjoyed it, I was smiling from ear to ear while playing it, but for some reason I had no rush in playing the next chapter. But when Chapter 2 came, I got hooked. I know that a lot of people dislike this episode, but I love it. Of course, as it went along, it got better. And that's exactly what I loved about the concept of episodic games. I couldn't wait to see what happened next!
So imagine if ToMI would have been one single game, released in one date altogether. Would the twists have had the same effect? Would people connected with the characters as much as they did? Probably not, because the story only works with the episodic format. It's like a TV show: You can't wait to see the next episode and see what happens next.
Just my complicated two cents.
This.
Please Darrell come baaaaaack.
That's essentially how I feel. Some are slightly better than others, but when it all comes down to it, I love each of the games equally. Yes, even 'Escape...'. I actually didn't realize there was so much negativity towards EfMI before I started hanging around on the forums.
Yeah, I think that this would be true in most cases. Because, in all seriousness, the game really wasn't that far behind the likes of 'Curse...' and 'Revenge...'. The writing was as strong as ever, there were some really cool characters, the puzzles were generally quite enjoyable, the storyline was fine (in my opinion) albeit a little silly, but I can look past the silliness.
It's just that the graphics would have caused an automatic bias towards the game from a lot of players. From the very beginning, they wouldn't have given the game the same chance as, say, Curse. They would have had a negative attitude towards everything in the game. The silliness that you and I mentioned wouldn't have been overlooked, and the slightly weaker jokes would have been hated rather than just ignored, the storyline would have been resented regardless of whether it was good or not, and any changes to the existing canon would have been despised by these players: overall, their opinion of the whole game would have been altered from the beginning just because of the graphics and control system, and that's a sad thing. It may not have been a massive bias, but it would have been enough to ultimately change someone's opinion of the game pretty drastically down the line.
The same thing probably would have happened to many who didn't like the art and graphics in Tales.
Really? I personally really liked the graphical style of Tales. I actually quite like that whole cartoon-y, non-realistic look and I feel that it suits the style of the game. But, hey, it's just different opinions in the end, isn't it? It's a good thing that you still played the game the whole way through and gave it a proper chance... unlike some people.
Yeah, this is what annoyed me. If people are going to make a judgment of the game, then they should at least play a substantial amount of the game. Then they go and blast their opinions about without giving the game a proper chance. Ignorant, impatient, idiotic people.
That's sad, he really is missing out. I initially didn't like the idea of episodic game distribution. But I decided to give it a chance (hell, I wasn't going to miss out on a new Monkey Island game, episodic or not
Exactly, except I don't even care that much about gameplay (when it comes to controls and interfaces). People put too much emphasis on the surface of the game - what it looks like, how it plays, which buttons you have to press to make the character do a particular thing and whether or not those buttons are to hard to push. Really, what is really important is the story (as you said), the plot, the characters and their depth and development, etc.
Much agreed. I don't think realistic graphics would work for Monkey Island games. It just wouldn't suit the whole feel and tone.
Haha, yes! A great point, and I agree. I guess the only thing that really separates the two is nostalgia and bias.
Maybe I'll convince him some day...
It's so good you know exactly what I think and feel, much better than I do myself... You must not browse the internet frequently?
Then again, maybe I got a major overdose of it lately being an Alpha Protocol fan. The amount of bias people have against that game with completing 0% of the material (oh yeah) is shocking.
Hell, even one guy came to the official forums, stating he didn't play the game but Obsidian HAD to fix his list of issues, which where totally true because of 3-rd hand info obviously (sarcasm dripping off here!), otherwise the game would remain to suck.
You can imagine he didn't quite get a warm welcome from us all.
Now, an adventure game classic that really controlled badly was Gabriel Knight 3.
I feel that the reception of Tales was a rather positive one. Of course, there are critical voices still, and of course some points are valid (from those who have actually played the episodes). Personally and subjectively, the following things were particularly annoying:
Comparing ToMI to EfMI, of course, really sets things straight. I played EfMI through once and sold it as fast as I could. Escape reproduced the series, brought nothing new, repeating the bad stuff and leaving out the good stuff. This game had next to no pirate flavour, while the Tales achieved really great things in this respect.
I liked the Tales for:
See, I can not remember a single good thing about EfMI, while I could add to the positive points above anytime. My final scores: EfMI not more than 3/10, ToMI at least 8/10. They're just not comparable...
I'll give you the complaint about the ending, but really? This? I can see your point but Tales was probably the least anachronistic Monkey Island game to date. The first game had electric lighting, the second had a vending machine, the third had a roller coaster(!) and don't even get me started on the fourth game. The series is built on anachronisms.
But isn't The Devil's Playhouse available for Wii too? Or they have a different version with comprised graphics and music?
No fair, the brilliant music of ToMI deserved live instruments! Just imagine a full orchestral version of "The Swordfight"... Aaaah!
And there I go again praising the soundtrack... Someone out there is rolling their eyes.
Nope. Was released for PC, PS3, Ipad and Mac, with the two dominant platforms focused on in development being PC and PS3.
Wait, what? Forgot the ending? There was an ending, wasn't there? Did you not see the after credits sequence?
It's just a nudge above EMI, that has zero PLAYability factor (started playing it 7 years ago, still stuck in chapter 1 and have no will to continue).
why no re-playability? because there's nothing worth replaying. older MI games have always been incredibly thick and detailed in the trivial. you could talk to people and go into long conversations with them about pretty much nothing that is important to the story, for no other reason except to tell a joke. you can go into a room and have about 20 item hotspots, non of them are usable or important, but each could have a funny response. Tomi pretty much had non of that. the game felt thin and linear. Almost everything you could interact with was either a person, a pickable object or a part of a puzzle. (and before people go "oh, but there's that thing in that episode that was awesome", please look up the word "almost" that i used
For me, TOMI is a good story that just happened to have the MI characters in it.
My problem was that it was so recurring that it stopped being an anachronism. It did not feel displaced any more, it didn't feel targeted. Just thrown in. A minor annoyance, maybe, but one that stuck with me.
There was a standard, bland and illogical conclusion to the very basic storyline element "Guybrush is dead" clipped at the end of the "Tales". This "ending" lasted 60 seconds and left dozens of painstakingly and carefully established story threads of the episodes untied (as has been discussed to death in this forum). The after credits sequence was meant as a cliffhanger and not as a conclusion to anything.
That's really interesting, because I actually enjoy TTG's love for detail and the possibility of "exploring" a scene by clicking on relatively unimportant hotspots.
This is the sort of problem that will be encountered when it comes to pumping out an episode each month. Having only a month to produce an entire episode is, in my opinion, too short. It's way too restrictive and it can often reflect on the finished episode, which it has done in this case. There would almost definitely have been a longer ending and a more satisfying conclusion to ToMI's story, but the deadline would have most probably disallowed Telltale from creating one. This is why I think that, if Telltale were to make a second season of Tales, that the episodes should be released every two months.
This way, they will be able to flesh out the story more, develop the characters more, expand the environment and locations in which the episode takes place (thus enhancing the game's exploration), put in more dialog options, insert more selectable items into the game, create and integrate more puzzles into the game, give themselves time to write more jokes, as well as allowing themselves to have that extra time that is needed to fix bugs and refine the game.
If the episodes were released every second month, then it would result in a higher quality episode each time, and it would also fix the re-playability issue that Mataku mentioned.
I have to agree. The Devil's Playhouse seemed to suffer because of this too.
While I find the idea of a bimonthly episode release schedule tempting (imagine that: 6 episodes would be one glorious Monkey Island year!), my original idea was that the way the ending turned out was due to bad planning. When they reached episode 5, they had some dozen story threads dangling in the air, and one episode was just not enough to conclude all of them. The entire season was about building suspense, intrigue, etc. - which was skillfully done; it was a storytelling beginner's mistake to not reveal certain things during other episodes to make a short, sharp ending possible. It wasn't the time left - when the end of the fourth episode was reached, a fitting conclusion in one episode might actually have been an impossibility.
I needed hints with tales but it was alot more enjoyable to play. I loved have access to the mouse again. Episodic formats don't bother me too much cause then you get to play pieces of the game while they're working on the next chapter. The alternative is waiting 6-months to who knows how long for a full game (which can be worth it for alot of games but I'm fine with how tales and sam and max are doing it right now)