I dont think Grim was boring but I started it a while back and haven't had the motivation to play it again. I still think it's a good game, probably play it during my retirement or something, about 50 years or so from now...maybe 40.
Personally, I hated the old verb system of LA games (likewise while nto as bad I didnt care for Sierra's icon system... so many times I used HAND instead of EYE and killed myself...), I much prefer the new TTG method
I will agree there's not a lot of replayability until you forget most of the story, it's just too linear. If there were a ton of side-quests (ala Final Fantasy series) then there would be more to go back and do, but as it is... GREAT GREAT GREAT story/storytelling, but once you've heard it, you've heard it...
So then you don't really like re-reading good books? I do that all the time. Good story is good story, be it a game, a show, movie or book. Just because you know how the story ends doesn't mean you still can't enjoy the ride.
So then you don't really like re-reading good books? I do that all the time. Good story is good story, be it a game, a show, movie or book. Just because you know how the story ends doesn't mean you still can't enjoy the ride.
I'm not defending the haters, Just pointing out that linear games do tend to have a lower replay value because there's not much new to discover. I do replay games (linear or not) I do rewatch TV/Movies/Anime, and I do re-read books, but like most people, if there is new content, I will be replaying it more often. (I actually have 1 game I've barely re-touched in over 10 years (closer to 15) because of the nature of the plot)
EDIT:
And the only thing "bad" I can say about the graphics is they are rather pointy (low polygon count) but at the same time, I still play IF games (i.e. ZORK) so graphics clearly take a back-seat to plot/puzzles/etc )
The thing about very linear games is that it really has to be something special in order to give me a reason to play through it again. Safe to say, plenty of adventure games does that to me, but there are also plenty of games I'm happy I played through once, but not really interested in playing through again. Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3 are obviously qualified for several playthroughs for ever and ever, but so is Broken Sword, DOTT, Grim Fandango, Beneath a Steel Sky, Indy Fate of Atlantis and so forth.
I'm not entirely sure about TOMI yet, because the first two episodes are forgettable. Thankfully, Episode 3 gets a lot better, and it's really from there I want to play - but I can't really bring myself to start a game from right in the middle of the story, so I will probably pull myself through Episode 1 and 2 anyway.
It probably won't be the most played MI game though. MI1 and 2 will always have that title, as they're alread far far ahead of the others, and for the others to catch up would take me not playing MI1 or 2 again for ten years or so. I think that would be hazardous to my health.
I must admit, I love the first 3 MI games and I thought Escape was ok, but I haven't been able to get into Tales. The humour, characters and general plot style is just so different than what I am used to.
However I'm only halfway through the second episode, so I am going on the notion that the best ones are towards the end, as Telltale Series usually are. Still I am thankful to them for keeping the series alive.
I can sympathise with the OP's quotes entirely because I thought the same as them. I still don't like the first ep very much but the difference for me was that the game improved as it went along. From inside the Manatee onwards it was a great game that definitely measured up to LCR/CoMI in most ways.
The visuals left a bit to be desired in the series, mainly early on. I think the difference later on was that the concepts were more enclosed and the visuals benefited from inspired art (like the Manatee or the moody court chapter's Club 41)
Wow, and here I thought personally that Tales is the best game in the series by now. I loved the way the plot got really deep, deep and dark. In many ways, reminds me of a good mix between MI2 and CMI. Good soup....Goodsoup. Wow.
Griswold Goodsoup.
Anyway, I rate them after this order:
1) Tales (Wow.)
2) MI3 (VOICES! And funny plot.)
3) MI2 (No words can describe this.)
4) MI1 (Off to a good start... I wanna be a pirate!)
5) EMI (first time we could actually interact with Elaine!)
I absolutely loved Tales from the first chapter. 3D was adequate; the rendering engine seemed a bit aged but still well up to the task, and used in good fashion. In fact the body language and facial expressions are pretty much superior by far to any 3D title I can remember off-hand.
The story started out slow, but built up well throughout the chapters. Compared to the cases where the story uses all of it's energy in the first few chapters and then start to succumb, this style is obviously much more preferred. The mood shift at the 4th chapter was absolutely brutal, but well written too. The entire 5th episode was mostly funny, but very very dark. With the whole set-up suddenly turned to pitch black the game was easily the most emotionally involving since Planescape: Torment.
The only real let-down was the quick resolution in the ending. I expected a bit more drama, a bit more comedy and tons of more epic-ness-ity than there was. I just felt rushed. Ah well... the coda was nice though, and hopefully it spawns a sequel.
...am I the only person who liked "Siege of Spinner Cay" more than "Lair of the Leviathan"?
I don't think Siege of Spinner Cay is as good as the later episodes, and at the same time I don't think Lair of the Leviathan is as great as the rest does.
I admit I haven't played Escape in a long while, but if I remember correctly, the big problem I had with Escape was not the graphics, the writing or the story - they were all acceptable, if not quite up to earlier standards. But the control system was very clunky and difficult for me to control, and that (combined with the merely adequate graphics and story) made completing puzzles annoying rather than appropriately challenging. I also disliked what were, in my opinion, ill thought out plot revisions regarding Herman Toothrot, but that's not really relevant.
Tales was well written, clever, sucked me in and made me believe that these were the characters I remembered from the earlier games. And I enjoyed the hell out of it. As for particular stages of Tales, I liked Lair more than Siege as well, but that's more due to my own personal tastes than anything objective.
I admit I haven't played Escape in a long while, but if I remember correctly, the big problem I had with Escape was not the graphics, the writing or the story - they were all acceptable, if not quite up to earlier standards. But the control system was very clunky and difficult for me to control, and that (combined with the merely adequate graphics and story) made completing puzzles annoying rather than appropriately challenging. I also disliked what were, in my opinion, ill thought out plot revisions regarding Herman Toothrot, but that's not really relevant.
Tales was well written, clever, sucked me in and made me believe that these were the characters I remembered from the earlier games. And I enjoyed the hell out of it. As for particular stages of Tales, I liked Lair more than Siege as well, but that's more due to my own personal tastes than anything objective.
I played it again about 5 months before tales came out, funny i had just started thinking it was ashame there was no new game and then suddenly there was:D Anyway the controls were the worst part of the game, but I do think that the tales ones were actually worse. The controls of the first three games were far easier to use. It does get annoying when the controls arent right, but I guess you do get used to it after a while.
I have played Escape once when it came out. I remember the massively weak points being the control system (which even keeps me from playing Grim Fandango again, which was brilliant in every other respect), the senseless waste of time that was "Monkey combat", and the total lack of pirate atmosphere. Escape from Monkey Island was about amusement parks, land owners, Tiki restaurants and giant robots, not about pirates. It's quite incomparable to the Tales.
But anyway, on the topic of the lack of piratey atmosphere in EfMI, I think that was sort of intended to a degree. I mean, the game's story was essentially about the pirate world being pushed aside, diminishing and dying as a result of a new world; a new system and regime taking over. The piratey atmosphere was lacking for a reason, but we still saw glimpses of the piratey atmosphere:
- the whole of Melee Island in Act I.
- Jumbeaux LaFeet, his story about his father, and his scheme that took place to remove the hat from his father's statue.
- Pegnose Pete. That guy was pretty piratey, he was just tagging along with the greater power in Ozzie.
- Monkey Island (the actual island). For sure it didn't exactly have a piratey atmosphere, but at least it didn't have all of the bright colours and modern feel of... say, Jambalaya.
For sure, there was less of a piratey feel than the other games, but it was sort of done for a reason. And perhaps the whole story could have been executed better, but I feel that it was told sufficiently.
Comments
I will agree there's not a lot of replayability until you forget most of the story, it's just too linear. If there were a ton of side-quests (ala Final Fantasy series) then there would be more to go back and do, but as it is... GREAT GREAT GREAT story/storytelling, but once you've heard it, you've heard it...
Yes, considering there is a 9 year gap between the two.
Me too. And to think of the expense and trouble it took to get a copy....
I'm not defending the haters, Just pointing out that linear games do tend to have a lower replay value because there's not much new to discover. I do replay games (linear or not) I do rewatch TV/Movies/Anime, and I do re-read books, but like most people, if there is new content, I will be replaying it more often. (I actually have 1 game I've barely re-touched in over 10 years (closer to 15) because of the nature of the plot)
EDIT:
And the only thing "bad" I can say about the graphics is they are rather pointy (low polygon count) but at the same time, I still play IF games (i.e. ZORK) so graphics clearly take a back-seat to plot/puzzles/etc
I'm not entirely sure about TOMI yet, because the first two episodes are forgettable. Thankfully, Episode 3 gets a lot better, and it's really from there I want to play - but I can't really bring myself to start a game from right in the middle of the story, so I will probably pull myself through Episode 1 and 2 anyway.
It probably won't be the most played MI game though. MI1 and 2 will always have that title, as they're alread far far ahead of the others, and for the others to catch up would take me not playing MI1 or 2 again for ten years or so. I think that would be hazardous to my health.
However I'm only halfway through the second episode, so I am going on the notion that the best ones are towards the end, as Telltale Series usually are. Still I am thankful to them for keeping the series alive.
The visuals left a bit to be desired in the series, mainly early on. I think the difference later on was that the concepts were more enclosed and the visuals benefited from inspired art (like the Manatee or the moody court chapter's Club 41)
Griswold Goodsoup.
Anyway, I rate them after this order:
1) Tales (Wow.)
2) MI3 (VOICES! And funny plot.)
3) MI2 (No words can describe this.)
4) MI1 (Off to a good start... I wanna be a pirate!)
5) EMI (first time we could actually interact with Elaine!)
The story started out slow, but built up well throughout the chapters. Compared to the cases where the story uses all of it's energy in the first few chapters and then start to succumb, this style is obviously much more preferred. The mood shift at the 4th chapter was absolutely brutal, but well written too. The entire 5th episode was mostly funny, but very very dark. With the whole set-up suddenly turned to pitch black the game was easily the most emotionally involving since Planescape: Torment.
The only real let-down was the quick resolution in the ending. I expected a bit more drama, a bit more comedy and tons of more epic-ness-ity than there was. I just felt rushed. Ah well... the coda was nice though, and hopefully it spawns a sequel.
Yes!
I don't think Siege of Spinner Cay is as good as the later episodes, and at the same time I don't think Lair of the Leviathan is as great as the rest does.
And yes, I like Siege more than Lair.
Tales was well written, clever, sucked me in and made me believe that these were the characters I remembered from the earlier games. And I enjoyed the hell out of it. As for particular stages of Tales, I liked Lair more than Siege as well, but that's more due to my own personal tastes than anything objective.
I played it again about 5 months before tales came out, funny i had just started thinking it was ashame there was no new game and then suddenly there was:D Anyway the controls were the worst part of the game, but I do think that the tales ones were actually worse. The controls of the first three games were far easier to use. It does get annoying when the controls arent right, but I guess you do get used to it after a while.
To be fair EMI removed the amusment park from Monkey Island.
But anyway, on the topic of the lack of piratey atmosphere in EfMI, I think that was sort of intended to a degree. I mean, the game's story was essentially about the pirate world being pushed aside, diminishing and dying as a result of a new world; a new system and regime taking over. The piratey atmosphere was lacking for a reason, but we still saw glimpses of the piratey atmosphere:
- the whole of Melee Island in Act I.
- Jumbeaux LaFeet, his story about his father, and his scheme that took place to remove the hat from his father's statue.
- Pegnose Pete. That guy was pretty piratey, he was just tagging along with the greater power in Ozzie.
- Monkey Island (the actual island). For sure it didn't exactly have a piratey atmosphere, but at least it didn't have all of the bright colours and modern feel of... say, Jambalaya.
For sure, there was less of a piratey feel than the other games, but it was sort of done for a reason. And perhaps the whole story could have been executed better, but I feel that it was told sufficiently.