My point was rather that if a movie takes two or more viewings to appreciate, it isn't doing its job as a movie.
A year and a half ago I may have agreed, because I used to say the same thing, but now I don't. You know that really pretentious thing that people say when they say "you just don't get it"? Sometimes that's really true. There have just been some movies that didn't deserve for me to dislike them because I didn't get what made them good. I was looking at them the wrong way.
Does Prometheus deserve the hate? Yes, I think it does. Because Ridley didn't put out a complete movie. Therefore, as an incomplete film it deserves to be bashed. But is it a bad movie? There is no way that can be judged because it's incomplete. Until the director's cut comes out restoring the movie to it's original length, I can't make a judgment at all. Do I like the movie and see plenty of potential? Yes. Absolutely.
Movies like The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly have taught me that just a few seconds to a few minutes of screentime can change everything about a movie, and everything about its story and characters. In a skillfully done movie, a million things can be conveyed with one small scene. Prometheus is poorly edited and chopped apart. Extremely important segments were cut, such as an entire conversation between David and the Engineer.
My point was rather that if a movie takes two or more viewings to appreciate, it isn't doing its job as a movie.
Well then, let's just write off 'Blade Runner' and '2001' as being shit heaps then, shall we? It's not like those two "masterpieces" are worth a single shit! If you can't appreciate their genius in a single sitting, then I guess you might as well declare them as being moribund!
A year and a half ago I may have agreed, because I used to say the same thing, but now I don't. You know that really pretentious thing that people say when they say "you just don't get it"? Sometimes that's really true. There have just been some movies that didn't deserve for me to dislike them because I didn't get what made them good. I was looking at them the wrong way.
Does Prometheus deserve the hate? Yes, I think it does. Because Ridley didn't put out a complete movie. Therefore, as an incomplete film it deserves to be bashed. But is it a bad movie? There is no way that can be judged because it's incomplete. Until the director's cut comes out restoring the movie to it's original length, I can't make a judgment at all. Do I like the movie and see plenty of potential? Yes. Absolutely.
Movies like The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly have taught me that just a few seconds to a few minutes of screentime can change everything about a movie, and everything about its story and characters. In a skillfully done movie, a million things can be conveyed with one small scene. Prometheus is poorly edited and chopped apart. Extremely important segments were cut, such as an entire conversation between David and the Engineer.
I couldn't agree more if I tried. Well said Sir, well said.
Well then, let's just write off 'Blade Runner' and '2001' as being shitl then, shall we? It's not like those two "masterpieces" are worth a single shit! If you can't appropriate their genius in a single sitting, then I guess you might as well declare them as being moribund!
I would say there's a difference between needing two viewings to understand a movie and two viewings to like a movie. If you hate a movie the first time, there's very little incentive to watch it again. If you don't understand a movie, there's a very large incentive to watch the movie again. Has nothing to do with whether that movie was good or bad, it's more of a thing with personal taste.
Saying that you have to watch a movie twice to like it is akin to saying you have to play the first hundred hours of a game before it gets good. Granted the time commitment is not comparable, but that's what it feels like from an outside perspective.
A year and a half ago I may have agreed, because I used to say the same thing, but now I don't. You know that really pretentious thing that people say when they say "you just don't get it"? Sometimes that's really true. There have just been some movies that didn't deserve for me to dislike them because I didn't get what made them good. I was looking at them the wrong way.
Does Prometheus deserve the hate? Yes, I think it does. Because Ridley didn't put out a complete movie. Therefore, as an incomplete film it deserves to be bashed. But is it a bad movie? There is no way that can be judged because it's incomplete. Until the director's cut comes out restoring the movie to it's original length, I can't make a judgment at all. Do I like the movie and see plenty of potential? Yes. Absolutely.
Movies like The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly have taught me that just a few seconds to a few minutes of screentime can change everything about a movie, and everything about its story and characters. In a skillfully done movie, a million things can be conveyed with one small scene. Prometheus is poorly edited and chopped apart. Extremely important segments were cut, such as an entire conversation between David and the Engineer.
I would actually like to see a Director'sCut. Under such circumstances, I would watch it agin. Heaven knows it makes a difference in Blade Runner.
I would say there's a difference between needing two viewings to understand a movie and two viewings to like a movie. If you hate a movie the first time, there's very little incentive to watch it again. If you don't understand a movie, there's a very large incentive to watch the movie again. Has nothing to do with whether that movie was good or bad, it's more of a thing with personal taste.
Saying that you have to watch a movie twice to like it is akin to saying you have to play the first hundred hours of a game before it gets good. Granted the time commitment is not comparable, but that's what it feels like from an outside perspective.
I hear what you're saying and to an extent, I agree. However, the simple fact is that many of the "haters" will change their tune in time; just as they did with 'Alien' and just as they did with 'Blade Runner'. I have already seen this 'switch o' opinion' occur within the 'Prometheus' forums upon which I frequent.
Some films simply require multiple viewings to be truly appreciated. If you fail to share this sentiment; then I pity you. Surely such an admission would be tantamount to general ignorance; or are you that sure of every snap judgement that you've made within your life?
I would actually like to see a Director'sCut. Under such circumstances, I would watch it agin. Heaven knows it makes a difference in Blade Runner.
Exactly. I am not a fan of the theatrical or workprint versions of Blade Runner, but the FINAL CUT on the other hand is a far superior movie to countless sci-fi films that exist.
I hear what you're saying and to an extent, I agree. However, the simple fact is that many of the "haters" will change their tune in time; just as they did with 'Alien' and just as they did with 'Blade Runner'. I have already seen this 'switch o' opinionr' occur within the 'Alien' forums upon which I frequent.
Some films simply require multiple viewings to truly appreciate. If you fail to share this sentiment; then I pity you. Surely such an admission would be tantamount to general ignorance; or are you that sure of every judgement you've made within your life?
Well, I guess the thing here is that I haven't really ever disliked a movie generally regarded as a good film. I have grown to appreciate movies more with multiple viewings, but the difference is that I kinda liked it the first time, and then liked it more after more viewings. This is different than not liking it at all and being told to subject oneself to that again without a reason other than it takes two viewings to get good. I feel a movie should have something that makes you want to see it again the first time you watch it, not rely on a second viewing to make it bearable or good. Either that, or the insistence to watch it a second time should come with some sort of reason why a second viewing makes all the difference.
And watching a director's cut afterwards and liking that more is a very different thing than needing to watch the same movie twice. Because a director's cut is essentially a different film with different scenes.
I feel like a broken record here, but first impressions really are everything. I should also mention that I haven't seen Prometheus and my views aren't directed at that film at all, just at movies in general. Actually, at media in general.
[Yet another edit] I wouldn't say the decision to dislike a film is a snap judgement either. I didn't dislike Avatar wholly and completely until a week afterwards once I'd fully categorized the things about the film that constituted my lackluster feeling after emerging from the theater. I reviewed the movie in my mind (which is kinda like watching it again except that I could fast forward to the areas that evoked my displeasure and not have to pay for another theater ticket) and then decided I did not want to see the movie again, unless it would be for the purpose of making fun of it.
While there is a difference, oftentimes the two go hand in hand.
Well, I suppose sometimes they do. But I've found that I don't always have to understand something in order to like it. I didn't understand Citizen Kane until I thought about it for awhile (actually, I probably still don't understand it), but I still liked the film immediately because it was aesthetically gorgeous and the kind of "doomed protagonist" story that I quite enjoy.
Actually, I thought Blade Runner was terrible. But I was younger when I watched it. I just thought everything was stupid. Nothing sucked me in. My mom really hated it. My dad loved it. I might give it another go one day, but when I think about it now I'm just like "ugh...no". They're right, first impressions are everything.
It's really the atmosphere, both physical and emotional. If the visuals, the desperation, the journey of understanding another point of view don't draw you in, I could totally understand not liking it. Blade Runner is definitely one of those movies that either reaches out to you, or it doesn't.
Whether one appreciates 'Prometheus' or not is largely irrelevant. My previous comments, as discourteous in nature as they may be, are intended to be taken with a large portion of 'facetious salad'. Seriously; dollop a gigantic gollop of facetious source on your chips of judgement and tuck in!
I Was Wrong, I Was So Wrong!
My Re-evaluation of 'Prometheus'
What was I thinking when I defended this movie so vehemently?! I can only rationalise that I was in denial and didn't want to face up to the fact that Ridley Scott has made not only a bad science fiction film (after the groundbreaking 'Alien' and Blade Runner') but also a piss poor movie set in the 'Alien' universe.
There's no denying that the movie is gorgeous to behold from a visual standpoint but the script is a fucking mess. How on Earth (or LV-223) did Ridley Scott decide that hodge-podge of different ideas ,from different drafts, from different writers was worthy of going into production?!
To be fair there are moments of greatness but you have to wade through a river of shit to get to them. Also, the final shot of the proto-xeno is a fucking disgrace that belongs in one of the appalling 'Alien Vs Predator' movies (in fact, it's disturbingly similar to the closing shot from the first 'AVP' movie).
The original 'Alien' is a masterpiece of cinema and despite it's B-movie origins, is elevated to being pure art via it's phenomenal execution of a relatively schlocky premise. 'Alien' is an intelligent film. 'Prometheus' is a dodgy popcorn munching movie.
What a shame.
My Adjusted Final Verdict
4/10 - A turd. A beautiful shining turd but a turd none the less. It's like the old saying goes; you can't polish a turd.
You could say that, yes. My friends tied me down to a chair and beat me with baseball bats engraved with the image of an Engineer, until I admitted that the movie is shit.
It would solve so many of the film's problems. In fact I have the perfect fan edit mapped out on paper. If I had the time and resources to put it together, I would.
Hey, if you don't want the movie or the detailed figure of the Engineer anymore, I'll take it. Just clean the case first, please.
Okay, it's a deal.
Good idea on cleaning the case first though. It's sticky and smells of salt (from when I loved it) and of fecal matter (from when I realised that I hated it).
if only they had decided to just make one film and set it as a direct prequel to alien the film may have worked (ignoring the billions spent on pathetic archeology "science" and the medical chair with no female setting and how staples fix everything) if the film had ended with the engineer sitting in his chair then an alien pops out if his chest Exactly matching what the guys in the alien film found it would have been a bit better.
but actually they would have needed to re-do everything that involved the stupid crew and replace them with normal intelligent people.
or if the film was entirely about the experiences of david, Michael Fassbender was the best part of that film
...or if the film was entirely about the experiences of david, Michael Fassbender was the best part of that film
The part near the beginning of the film (where David is alone on board the ship) is easily the best part of the whole movie. That short sequence matches up to the quality of 'Alien' and 'Blade Runner'. If they'd just had the whole film be about that it could have been great, with a sort of 'Silent Running' type of vibe.
The part near the beginning of the film (where David is alone on board the ship) is easily the best part of the whole movie. That short sequence matches up to the quality of 'Alien' and 'Blade Runner'. If they'd just had the whole film be about that it could have been great, with a sort of 'Silent Running' type of vibe.
yeah i think david is the only mysterious/ambiguous part that isn't just ridiculous
I Was Wrong, I Was So Wrong!
My Re-evaluation of 'Prometheus'
What was I thinking when I defended this movie so vehemently?! I can only rationalise that I was in denial and didn't want to face up to the fact that Ridley Scott has made not only a bad science fiction film (after the groundbreaking 'Alien' and Blade Runner') but also a piss poor movie set in the 'Alien' universe.
There's no denying that the movie is gorgeous to behold from a visual standpoint but the script is a fucking mess. How on Earth (or LV-223) did Ridley Scott decide that hodge-podge of different ideas ,from different drafts, from different writers was worthy of going into production?!
To be fair there are moments of greatness but you have to wade through a river of shit to get to them. Also, the final shot of the proto-xeno is a fucking disgrace that belongs in one of the appalling 'Alien Vs Predator' movies (in fact, it's disturbingly similar to the closing shot from the first 'AVP' movie).
The original 'Alien' is a masterpiece of cinema and despite it's B-movie origins, is elevated to being pure art via it's phenomenal execution of a relatively schlocky premise. 'Alien' is an intelligent film. 'Prometheus' is a dodgy popcorn munching movie.
What a shame.
My Adjusted Final Verdict
4/10 - A turd. A beautiful shining turd but a turd none the less. It's like the old saying goes; you can't polish a turd.
just watched your video review, maybe you could make a new review now you have changed your mind
It's like the old saying goes; you can't polish a turd.
Actually, Mythbusters proved that you can polish a turd to a beautiful shine, and without much difficulty, either. Plus, your fan edit sounds contradictory to the saying as well.
Actually, Mythbusters proved that you can polish a turd to a beautiful shine, and without much difficulty, either. Plus, your fan edit sounds contradictory to the saying as well.
A good point well made, Sir.
By the way, I saw that episode of 'Mythbusters' as well.
The part near the beginning of the film (where David is alone on board the ship) is easily the best part of the whole movie. That short sequence matches up to the quality of 'Alien' and 'Blade Runner'. If they'd just had the whole film be about that it could have been great, with a sort of 'Silent Running' type of vibe.
Comments
A year and a half ago I may have agreed, because I used to say the same thing, but now I don't. You know that really pretentious thing that people say when they say "you just don't get it"? Sometimes that's really true. There have just been some movies that didn't deserve for me to dislike them because I didn't get what made them good. I was looking at them the wrong way.
Does Prometheus deserve the hate? Yes, I think it does. Because Ridley didn't put out a complete movie. Therefore, as an incomplete film it deserves to be bashed. But is it a bad movie? There is no way that can be judged because it's incomplete. Until the director's cut comes out restoring the movie to it's original length, I can't make a judgment at all. Do I like the movie and see plenty of potential? Yes. Absolutely.
Movies like The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly have taught me that just a few seconds to a few minutes of screentime can change everything about a movie, and everything about its story and characters. In a skillfully done movie, a million things can be conveyed with one small scene. Prometheus is poorly edited and chopped apart. Extremely important segments were cut, such as an entire conversation between David and the Engineer.
Well then, let's just write off 'Blade Runner' and '2001' as being shit heaps then, shall we? It's not like those two "masterpieces" are worth a single shit! If you can't appreciate their genius in a single sitting, then I guess you might as well declare them as being moribund!
Sad. Very sad. I don't disagree with you but I do find it very sad. Since when did art become disposable?
I couldn't agree more if I tried. Well said Sir, well said.
I would say there's a difference between needing two viewings to understand a movie and two viewings to like a movie. If you hate a movie the first time, there's very little incentive to watch it again. If you don't understand a movie, there's a very large incentive to watch the movie again. Has nothing to do with whether that movie was good or bad, it's more of a thing with personal taste.
Saying that you have to watch a movie twice to like it is akin to saying you have to play the first hundred hours of a game before it gets good. Granted the time commitment is not comparable, but that's what it feels like from an outside perspective.
I would actually like to see a Director'sCut. Under such circumstances, I would watch it agin. Heaven knows it makes a difference in Blade Runner.
I hear what you're saying and to an extent, I agree. However, the simple fact is that many of the "haters" will change their tune in time; just as they did with 'Alien' and just as they did with 'Blade Runner'. I have already seen this 'switch o' opinion' occur within the 'Prometheus' forums upon which I frequent.
Some films simply require multiple viewings to be truly appreciated. If you fail to share this sentiment; then I pity you. Surely such an admission would be tantamount to general ignorance; or are you that sure of every snap judgement that you've made within your life?
Exactly. I am not a fan of the theatrical or workprint versions of Blade Runner, but the FINAL CUT on the other hand is a far superior movie to countless sci-fi films that exist.
Well, I guess the thing here is that I haven't really ever disliked a movie generally regarded as a good film. I have grown to appreciate movies more with multiple viewings, but the difference is that I kinda liked it the first time, and then liked it more after more viewings. This is different than not liking it at all and being told to subject oneself to that again without a reason other than it takes two viewings to get good. I feel a movie should have something that makes you want to see it again the first time you watch it, not rely on a second viewing to make it bearable or good. Either that, or the insistence to watch it a second time should come with some sort of reason why a second viewing makes all the difference.
And watching a director's cut afterwards and liking that more is a very different thing than needing to watch the same movie twice. Because a director's cut is essentially a different film with different scenes.
I feel like a broken record here, but first impressions really are everything. I should also mention that I haven't seen Prometheus and my views aren't directed at that film at all, just at movies in general. Actually, at media in general.
[Yet another edit] I wouldn't say the decision to dislike a film is a snap judgement either. I didn't dislike Avatar wholly and completely until a week afterwards once I'd fully categorized the things about the film that constituted my lackluster feeling after emerging from the theater. I reviewed the movie in my mind (which is kinda like watching it again except that I could fast forward to the areas that evoked my displeasure and not have to pay for another theater ticket) and then decided I did not want to see the movie again, unless it would be for the purpose of making fun of it.
Well, I suppose sometimes they do. But I've found that I don't always have to understand something in order to like it. I didn't understand Citizen Kane until I thought about it for awhile (actually, I probably still don't understand it), but I still liked the film immediately because it was aesthetically gorgeous and the kind of "doomed protagonist" story that I quite enjoy.
Mmm, that's good facetiousness!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHzGYbdcSRI&feature=player_embedded
My Re-evaluation of 'Prometheus'
What was I thinking when I defended this movie so vehemently?! I can only rationalise that I was in denial and didn't want to face up to the fact that Ridley Scott has made not only a bad science fiction film (after the groundbreaking 'Alien' and Blade Runner') but also a piss poor movie set in the 'Alien' universe.
There's no denying that the movie is gorgeous to behold from a visual standpoint but the script is a fucking mess. How on Earth (or LV-223) did Ridley Scott decide that hodge-podge of different ideas ,from different drafts, from different writers was worthy of going into production?!
To be fair there are moments of greatness but you have to wade through a river of shit to get to them. Also, the final shot of the proto-xeno is a fucking disgrace that belongs in one of the appalling 'Alien Vs Predator' movies (in fact, it's disturbingly similar to the closing shot from the first 'AVP' movie).
The original 'Alien' is a masterpiece of cinema and despite it's B-movie origins, is elevated to being pure art via it's phenomenal execution of a relatively schlocky premise. 'Alien' is an intelligent film. 'Prometheus' is a dodgy popcorn munching movie.
What a shame.
You could say that, yes. My friends tied me down to a chair and beat me with baseball bats engraved with the image of an Engineer, until I admitted that the movie is shit.
Uh-huhhhh. Yeah because I really sound like that. :rolleyes:
It would solve so many of the film's problems. In fact I have the perfect fan edit mapped out on paper. If I had the time and resources to put it together, I would.
Hey, if you don't want the movie or the detailed figure of the Engineer anymore, I'll take it. Just clean the case first, please.
Okay, it's a deal.
Good idea on cleaning the case first though. It's sticky and smells of salt (from when I loved it) and of fecal matter (from when I realised that I hated it).
but actually they would have needed to re-do everything that involved the stupid crew and replace them with normal intelligent people.
or if the film was entirely about the experiences of david, Michael Fassbender was the best part of that film
The part near the beginning of the film (where David is alone on board the ship) is easily the best part of the whole movie. That short sequence matches up to the quality of 'Alien' and 'Blade Runner'. If they'd just had the whole film be about that it could have been great, with a sort of 'Silent Running' type of vibe.
yeah i think david is the only mysterious/ambiguous part that isn't just ridiculous
just watched your video review, maybe you could make a new review now you have changed your mind
Actually, Mythbusters proved that you can polish a turd to a beautiful shine, and without much difficulty, either. Plus, your fan edit sounds contradictory to the saying as well.
It's on the list of things to do. It's a long list though, so I should have it done by 2017!
A good point well made, Sir.
By the way, I saw that episode of 'Mythbusters' as well.
That part was so promising