@Darth: We are inviting lots of "noobs" to the site. That is what the site is for! Everytime we get a new license (The Walking Dead, Fables, much more unannounced stuff) we are going to be flooded with "noobs". You simply have to get used to this. It's who we are. And they are going to be who they are going to be. You're stating your disrespect for The Walking Dead fans, and presuming that the Wolf fans will disrespectfully "trash the place" like a hotel room. You don't want to sound like an old curmudgeon who just wants old fans and rejects all the new, do you? As a mod, please attempt to make them feel welcome. The rest of your post sounded to me like questions that have been asked and answered repeatedly. Was I missing some new aspect of your argument?
I have to say. I respect you as a mod, and your position. However I must agree with Kevin. On the issue that you assume all people are stupid. That shows a lack of compassion, perhaps fair judgement. Maybe someone had violated one of the rules on this fourm. Would you outright ban them and dismiss their appeal, deeming them too stupid to understand their mistakes.
Interesting. I'm not exactly entirely a hundred percent comfortable either with a mod who believes the worst in people. I try to believe in the best, till I am proven wrong. I say this respectfully. It would be very different if you just a regular old joe on the forums. You are in a position of influence as a mod. You in a way are a representative of Tell Tale being a mod on their forums.
I'm just speaking my personal opinion. Please take no offense or insult. I'm not flaming. Just explaining my point of view. In situations. I would think mods are neutral not biased that people have the intelligence a tad bit higher then animals. I grant you, people do dumb things. That doesn't mean equally all of them are dumb, just because of a bad experience with a few.
I'm a tad bit surprised at the mods taking personal offense at this site. Its okay if you dislike it, there should be room for debate. In my humble opinion since Tell Tale is the one who pays the bills on the site would not be fair to say its up to them if they want to put pink clowns on their site. I mean they do own the company.
I would suggest an email feedback be set up, where people can personally email and detail their frustrations. Having dirty laundry aired in public can not be a good thing. Even more so close to the release date of one major game. I respectfully request to believe in people till they do something to remove your confidence. Rather then believe they all are stupid.
In closing a noob is a person that is new to the site, vastly different then using your word stupid people. We are all noobs at the start, then we advance. According to what you believe, people don't advance their intelligence.
@thestalkinghead The 'flag' button is a lot like the 'report post' button of old, and does exactly that.
@Kevin OK, let's go through this.
… more
Though I'm aware you'd like to demote me, I'm the co-founder, president and CTO of the company. We started this whole thing in my apartment 8 years ago.
My bad, I got your position mixed up with something else. As for demoting you... I don't think ANYONE wants to demote you. Lots of other things, maybe, but not demote you.
It's a pity that your instinct is to assume that participants in the discussion are defaulted to stupid. I will say I'm not too comfortable with a mod on our forum who's first instinct is to assume that about the people posting here.
I wouldn't assume anything unless experience has taught me to do so. This is the internet we're dealing with, after all. If people prove to be intelligent, then I'm happy to treat them as such, as I'm sure most people will attest… [view original content]
...y;know what? I had a big long post here defending myself and explaining my views, but when I went to look back on it, I realized I didn't care.
If you think what I said prevents me from moderating this forum, than by all means, strip of me of my modship and I will leave, head held high and never looking back But I can tell you right now that my personal opinion has not stopped me up until now, and I have no intention of letting it stop me in the future. I am fully capable of acting in an impartial manner, even when I'd rather not. I am fully capable of acting in a professional manner, even when I don't want to. I am fully capable of moderating this site, even if I'd rather be doing something else.
I can't be bothered to defend myself further than that. If you really want to focus on this, then go ahead. But I'd say we have far bigger problems, and I am not one of them.
Edit: OK, looking back at my previous post, I probably picked the wrong word. Replace 'noobish' with 'immature' and you have closer to what I meant. New people can act incredibly immature, and they can drown out everyone else. We got this with TWD, and we're probably going to get it with TWAU. If we don't... I'll admit I was wrong. If we do... well. Then I get to do a "I told you so" dance.
And this post... wow, this one came across as angry. I guess I got a wee bit defensive there. But you know what? I don't regret saying ANY of it. Like, AT ALL. Seriously.
@fusedmass - I don't know you well, what with you being fairly new and all, but you seem to be assuming an AWFUL lot with that post.
I wouldn't outright ban anyone for breaking a rule. If anything, I'm known for being too LENIENT with people. It's how I tend to approach things on the forum. My personal opinion doesn't affect how I act on the site, which since becoming a mod has been in a (somewhat) professional manner. I am aware of who I represent and I try to ACT accordingly, even if I may not personally THINK that way.
The mods are negative about this foru-COMMUNITY for many of the same reasons everyday posters are negative about it, and for a few reasons that you aren't seeing (the mod tools, among other things). We're not just mods - we're also people who loved the site, and the changeover has been... complicated to say the least, so yeah, we're not gonna love everything about it. The fact you're surprised at this surprises ME.
I'm going to pick one sentence that you posted, because it's phrased so awkwardly that I have trouble making sense of it:
I respectfully request to believe in people till they do something to remove your confidence. Rather then believe they all are stupid.
...I really hope you aren't asking me to change how I feel about people. Because that... that's just not gonna happen, and certainly not because you just up and asked me to. You can ask me to change how I act on this forum, but don't ask me to change how I feel.
As for that last line of yours... I phrased my post awkwardly and that, I suspect, kicked things off, for which I apologise. I didn't mean to actively insult newcomers, just point out that some of them - a rather vocal some - can act rather childish.
I think it's time I came into this thread, and shared my thoughts. I understand Telltale is a growing company and it needs to make changes for the future licenses, and eventually(Doubtful) new I-P.
What I don't understand is if something had received a majority of a negative feedback, and negative feedback from the moderators. Why it was okay to push something forward that in a way probably cost about 30,000 dollars or so. Instead of taking a $299 dollar license and just upgraded to a newer version. Then again it's your company you do what you see fit for it's advances.
This was my home..this is where I met my friends and my best friend..this place had something no other community had developer interaction and developers listening to fans.
While I'm glad to see you Kevin taking the time to talk to everyone and answer questions. It just hurts to see something I love destroyed to the point where...it's a ghost town, and hell even the fables board seems vacant.
One last tiny thing I do want to point out. I noticed you were a little aggressive at the idea of more people coming to the site. Personally that to me is anti social behavior, which is fine and actually normal in some people. As a mod you would want to encourage people coming to the site. Not become frustrated at more people arriving.
With the walking dead success, more people will come after the wolf among us. Calling them stupid. Perhaps might understandably make them feel a little insecure. From the bio ware site. I recall some people getting into verbal fight with the staff. If it had been a mod that called people stupid on there site. It would have made gaming news articles online websites. It's not good PR.
It would have deeply angered the public. As a mod even though its your personal opinion. You are a representative of Tell Tale Games. Someone might not buy a game because they feel insulted at something you said to them or the idea you believe they are stupid. That's discouraging behavior.
However, that's my last comment on the subject. Personally. I try to be as nice as possible with people, picking my words carefully. I don't dislike anyone, even now writing this to you. Not an inch of hate or being offended is in me. I am just looking at this angle through other peoples view. But as you guys were. I'm back to refreshing the site and waiting for news of the wolf among us.
...y;know what? I had a big long post here defending myself and explaining my views, but when I went to look back on it, I realized I didn't c… moreare.
If you think what I said prevents me from moderating this forum, than by all means, strip of me of my modship and I will leave, head held high and never looking back But I can tell you right now that my personal opinion has not stopped me up until now, and I have no intention of letting it stop me in the future. I am fully capable of acting in an impartial manner, even when I'd rather not. I am fully capable of acting in a professional manner, even when I don't want to. I am fully capable of moderating this site, even if I'd rather be doing something else.
I can't be bothered to defend myself further than that. If you really want to focus on this, then go ahead. But I'd say we have far bigger problems, and I am not one of them.
Edit: OK, looking back at my previous post, I probably picked the … [view original content]
As a mod even though its your personal opinion. You are a representative of Tell Tale Games.
If only there were some sort of disclaimer that could be carried around by mods indicating that their opinions are their own and are thus not representative of Telltale. Maybe it can even be displayed at the end of each of their posts. Ah well. A man can dream.
@Darth
One last tiny thing I do want to point out. I noticed you were a little aggressive at the idea of more people coming to the site. Pe… morersonally that to me is anti social behavior, which is fine and actually normal in some people. As a mod you would want to encourage people coming to the site. Not become frustrated at more people arriving.
With the walking dead success, more people will come after the wolf among us. Calling them stupid. Perhaps might understandably make them feel a little insecure. From the bio ware site. I recall some people getting into verbal fight with the staff. If it had been a mod that called people stupid on there site. It would have made gaming news articles online websites. It's not good PR.
It would have deeply angered the public. As a mod even though its your personal opinion. You are a representative of Tell Tale Games. Someone might not buy a game because they feel insulted at something you said to them … [view original content]
I wasn't going to get drawn into this, but here's the heart of the issue.
For a lot of us, this site was the center of an active internet life. We used it to meet people, make friends. Most of the friends I have made online, and certainly the most long-lasting, I met on these boards. We went from discussing games in longwinded and meandering discussions, to silly forum games, drama, support through hard times, the whole deal. We became good enough friends that we started hanging out on AIM, then Skype, then Google Hangouts, then real life. I've met people literally from around the world on these boards, met one of my favorite young animators (Majus), played through Kings Quest I with a guy from Iran (Jon NA), made my first solo vacation trip with people I'd never met in person prior (PAX), discovered the world of comic books (well, Marvel ones, anyways), learned more about classic film than I ever thought was possible (saw Citizen Kane because of a movie thread), and so much more.
Without these boards, I would have done none of these things. I wouldn't know so many wonderful people. And with the way they're structured now, it makes it more difficult to talk to them. Some, I've got on Facebook or Google +, some have moved to DoubleFine, but a lot of the people I enjoyed talking with are so frustrated with the new format that they've left and I'll likely never hear from them again.
This is why I'm upset with the forum change. It broke up a community that I loved and scattered them. Even if the forum were changed back to the vBulletin style today, most of them wouldn't come back. I don't think Telltale intended this or anything, I don't think you guys are cackling maniacally in your executive chairs (cigar in hand, of course) or anything... but I am saddened by the result. I'm even more saddened by the fact that the moderators and community members brought up the fact that this would happen, brought it up many times during the beta, in fact, and that the risk of that outcome was ignored. And most of all, I'm saddened by the fact that even after the decimation of this community, there's no acknowledgment that anything has even changed.
TL;DR: Because of the forum change, people I liked have disappeared out of my life forever. They might as well be dead, because I have no other way of getting in contact with them.
i remember when we had signatures the mods had something like "there opinions are their own and in no way represent the opinions of tell tale." or something in that manner. i think we should have signatures back. if for anything it would help show that to new people that don't know right off the bat that there not employed by telltale to moderate the site. some people don't know of things like that and just start assuming things. it would help deter them from that. not to mention having awesome signatures again!!!
I don't think Marsden was trying to say that all new users will be immature. On the contrary, we've seen plenty of mature users come in with The Walking Dead. But we did also see a number of immature ones. We saw that when given anonymity, some of them saw fit to harass other users, ruining the blog comments for everyone and getting them taken away. It's made us just a bit jaded about anonymous features.
Take this as an example. A republican says something greatly offense. Its plastered on the news channel 24/7. That Republican is part of a larger network. As mods as apart of a community. That Republican can say, that is his personal opinion and place a disclaimer. Yet people will still blast his party (GOP/Republican) as a whole for it.
I'm not honestly trying to aggravate a situation. Speaking logically. Just because the words at the end of the sentence say this persons personal point of view. Doesn't mean the people will take it as such. It's human nature to have emotions and be offended at insults. Let's switch gears however steer the conversation to something else.
As a mod even though its your personal opinion. You are a representative of Tell Tale Games.
If only there were some sort of disclaime… morer that could be carried around by mods indicating that their opinions are their own and are thus not representative of Telltale. Maybe it can even be displayed at the end of each of their posts. Ah well. A man can dream.
Well, I guess I get to re-write my entire post, since this wonderful new forum design completely deleted it when I clicked "post comment" and didn't actually post anything. Perfect.
Anyway, I've been around for quite some time on these forums. I think my join date is circa 2005, if I remember correctly. I used to buy every single thing Telltale produced. Even those crappy CSI games that I didn't much care for. Why? Because I wanted them to succeed. I wanted them to continue making the games I had grown up playing and loved to death. I wanted them to create adventure games.
Over the years, I've spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on their games. I bought every version of every game, I bought almost every piece of merchandise I could afford to lay my hands on. For a while, I was very happy. They made games I love, and still love to this day. I practically worshiped the company. I spent hours on the forums defending their slow customer support when Tales of Monkey Island launched, and was even personally thanked in a PM from the person in charge of customer support when she left the company for all the defending I'd done of Telltale and her. I have a post count in the thousands because this used to be my home. I met almost every single person that I talk to daily, to this day, through this community. I loved the days when Emily, Jake, David, Nika, Shaun, Chuck, Brendan, and others, even Dan Connors himself, would post regularly, and answer any questions we had without holding back any more than they had to.
That said, I don't recognize this company anymore. Kevin's recent posts aside, the developer presence is almost nothing on the forums. Even the blog has gone from having a real person's name attached to it, to just "Telltale Games posted:". There's no soul left in this place. It feels like a heartless corporate machine. Do you know what it feels like? It feels like LucasArts, circa 2004. "Marketplace realities" must have finally caught up to Telltale Games.
I feel like I couldn't possibly be more meaningless in the eyes of this company. It feels like they have absolutely no respect for the fans that put them where they are today. We spent our hard-earned cash on you because you were our shining ray of hope in an otherwise bleak future for adventure games. What has that gotten us? Tossed out like yesterday's jam.
Hey, thanks for not letting me decide if that was a link or a video, forums!
They don't care about us.
It's been over 3 years since Telltale has produced a single game that was designed for us. They couldn't possibly have made it clearer that they don't care about what we want, and the forum revision is just an extension of that. Nothing we say matters, because there's more money in ignoring us than listening to us. And that's what this industry is about. Money. Not doing right by your die-hard supporters.
No. You know the old forums had this + button where you could select multiple posts, and when you hit "reply" it would append every selected post quote to the top of your own post. Then you could reply to several people in the same post and the whole thing would be put at the bottom of the thread so everyone can find it.
You can't do that here, so no. You are in fact wrong about that.
@Dartth "I'm talking to the VP of a company and I know that nothing I say will really matter". Though I'm aware you'd like to demote me, I'm t… morehe co-founder, president and CTO of the company. We started this whole thing in my apartment 8 years ago. Despite that, what you say does matter! It's a pity that your instinct is to assume that participants in the discussion are defaulted to stupid. I will say I'm not too comfortable with a mod on our forum who's first instinct is to assume that about the people posting here. You've been around here for a very long time and always had great things to contribute. Please take a step back and try not to be elitist and remain objective.
@fusedmass: Stay tuned! We're working with our partners now to secure the release date. It's not far off at all!
@DomwWing: Markdown is more of a technical thing than anything else. I think the current markdown is built into Vanilla so it works out of the box. Jesse would… [view original content]
If only I could go straight to the most recent post rather than one 15 'comments' back and then work my way forward just because it takes time for comments to be read even though I've read them a half dozen times already,
The forum has directly changed my life in a profound way. I met a slew of amazing, smart, witty people who I am now great friends or at least aquantences with, one of which I have developed the deepest friendship I have ever had. I can't even imagine life without him anymore. Many of us are on first name basis with each other. Many of us have met each other in meatspace.
The connections I made here led me to my career and consequently my significant other. I literally would not be where I am today without the forum.
And that's just me. Many of us have met our best friends, lovers, and, heck, at least one has met their fiancee here.
That's why it fucking hurts when we're ignored. This place meant so much to us.
If there's one thing I can say positively about this whole ordeal, it's that the fact that we've gone through so much to stick together proves that at we at least care about each other.
As far as tying votes to a user, I also think it's valuable to know what how the community is reacting to you.
The only reason I could imagine needing to hide it is because the user had a lot of thumbs down, which might be an accurate reflection of how the community feels about the user. We need mechanisms to allow the community to express themselves if a user is trolling, being intentionally abusive, derailing conversations, etc. I'm a fan of comments that (when downvoted below a certain threshold) are collapsed and hidden by default, allowing the community to self-filter content that doesn't work for them.
We have discussed hybrid flat/threaded quite a bit internally. We are going to give threaded a chance at least through the launch of Wolf.
… moreThe voting system is one of the things that I think is most valuable. It provides an outlet for people to express themselves with a much lower barrier to entry than writing a full on post. It has been argued that this will encourage people to childishly down vote a user in a punitive fashion. I have more faith in our community than that. I am passionate about enabling participation in as many ways a possible. Posting, voting, polling (which is currently absent), and anything else that makes it easier for someone to participate is great in my book. I don't fear lighter, more casual participation and in fact want to encourage it! This doesn't preclude or diminish lengthy intelligent discussions at all. 100 page threads just don't work for everybody in every context.
As far as tying votes to a user, I also … [view original content]
Kevin said: I'm a fan of comments that (when downvoted below a certain threshold) are collapsed and hidden by default, allowing the community to self-filter content that doesn't work for them.
Just noticed this. Laughed myself silly for a good two minutes.
I understand that while yes what Darth said may have been wrong about everyone being stupid and immature but There are 2 things. At the start of Darth's first post. He said he wasn't saying this as a Mod, He was saying this as a long time member and fan of these forums. Second and again I mean no offence to anyone but I can see where he is going. There was a lot of people who joined just to immature.
What about the people who kept jumping in the TWD forums with fake titles and instead spoiled TWD episodes(I had TWD Ep 3 spoiled thanks to that). Then there was the people who kept making threads to complain about the same thing. ''WHERES MY TWD EPISODE!?'' We had a Sam & Max 25th anniversary post which was great for old fans, spammed by TWD fans asking for TWD episode 4 only after 2 or 3 weeks since TWD Ep 3. Look again I mean no offence to anyone but I'm just putting down my thoughts and I can honestly see where Darth is coming from. I will admit that saying that the same thing will happen the TWAU forums is too early but you have to remember that most likely the TWD forums probably left a bad taste in everyone's mouths and it was most likely worst for the Mods like Vain,Guru,Darth, and Jen who had to sit and clean up through the spoilers and that kind of stuff.
Wait... if downvotes can filter out content that doesn't work for us, can we just... like... downvote the whole forum? Will that make it go away? Where's the button for this?
I really would rather not get involved in the inner politics of this forum. It's obvious that this community was a close bit group of friends back when Tell Tale was doing moderately well. However as most things do with time. It changes. Since the success of The walking dead, more people have come. Tell Tale has perhaps even changed their attitude towards people.
Since their expanded success. They wanted to improve their image and the core community didn't like that. I can understand that. However you will have to learn to accept with the rising success of their games. This isn't just solely a forum where friendships are it. Its a community to discuss their games. I understand some of you are very close. However because some bad apples ruined some spoilers. Doesn't mean everyone is like that.
Its clear, no matter how many thumbs down you give a post. It doesn't change that this community is changing with more people. Now he did say he wasn't saying that as a mod. That simply doesn't erase and wash away his mod status. He is a mod regardless. It would be like a convicted killer, saying. "I'm not saying this as a murder" you cannot separate the two for the sake of a post.
This section is getting rather hostile, and honestly the attitudes here towards new members and even the mods towards tell tall staff is making me a tad uncomfortable. I will leave this section in the capable hands of mods and direct my attention to the games. Thank you Gentlemen.
@Kevin and @Fusedmass.
I understand that while yes what Darth said may have been wrong about everyone being stupid and immature but There a… morere 2 things. At the start of Darth's first post. He said he wasn't saying this as a Mod, He was saying this as a long time member and fan of these forums. Second and again I mean no offence to anyone but I can see where he is going. There was a lot of people who joined just to immature.
What about the people who kept jumping in the TWD forums with fake titles and instead spoiled TWD episodes(I had TWD Ep 3 spoiled thanks to that). Then there was the people who kept making threads to complain about the same thing. ''WHERES MY TWD EPISODE!?'' We had a Sam & Max 25th anniversary post which was great for old fans, spammed by TWD fans asking for TWD episode 4 only after 2 or 3 weeks since TWD Ep 3. Look again I mean no offence to anyone but I'm just putting down my thoughts and I can honestly see where Da… [view original content]
Yeah, and you know where The Walking Dead people are now? They got so fed up with this place, they all left and started their own forum where they could actually have meaningful discussions about The Walking Dead. It isn't just us. We're just more vocal because we have a stronger attachment to this place and don't really want to leave. We probably will, eventually, but it's like pulling a mussel off of a rock.
@Fusedmass. Look I have nothing against you,Kevin or no members as you can see from the several times I said I mean no offence to anyone. I honestly don't see where people discussing games has anything to do with what we are talking about. I gave points that defended Darth's post. People who joined the TWD forums did stuff that is extremely immature like using fake thread titles and spoiling stuff. That's not discussing a game. That's tricking someone into thinking they are talking about an earlier episode that you have played but instead the person was just being an asshole and spoiled the new episode for no reason (which was bad for me since in the UK every episode was delayed on PSN) People talking about friendships is referencing the point that the whole community has been scattered around by this new forum because despite months of continued feedback of dislike towards this new forum, it was still the same apart from some minor changes.
This causing many people new and old to leave be scattered around the place with most being at Double Fine (Jeez I'm not even on the Double Fine forums and still I'm mentioned in the platformers thread there ) My point here is that I didn't mention anywhere that I had anything against new members but you can't fight facts that a lot of immature people came with TWD and don't get me wrong because there was mature people there as well who wanted to have honest and good discussions about the episodes instead of spoiling things for no reason and joining just to complain over and over and over.
@Fusedmass. Look I have nothing against you,Kevin or no members as you can see from the several times I said I mean no offence to anyone. I ho… morenestly don't see where people discussing games has anything to do with what we are talking about. I gave points that defended Darth's post. People who joined the TWD forums did stuff that is extremely immature like using fake thread titles and spoiling stuff. That's not discussing a game. That's tricking someone into thinking they are talking about an earlier episode that you have played but instead the person was just being an asshole and spoiled the new episode for no reason (which was bad for me since in the UK every episode was delayed on PSN) People talking about friendships is referencing the point that the whole community has been scattered around by this new forum because despite months of continued feedback of dislike towards this new forum, it was still the same apart from some minor changes.
T… [view original content]
Eh I'm not really sure yet. Sooner or later I probably will (I got The Cave with PS Plus and if I like it I'll probably join to discuss it) Say Hi to all the TTG people over there for me though, Tell them I'll probably join sooner or later .
That reminds me, A little off topic but has coolsome joined yet? I hear the reactions is sort of a mix between ''he's the life of the old forums'' to ''Oh crap what have you done!?''
Eh I'm not really sure yet. Sooner or later I probably will (I got The Cave with PS Plus and if I like it I'll probably join to discuss it) Sa… morey Hi to all the TTG people over there for me though, Tell them I'll probably join sooner or later .
That reminds me, A little off topic but has coolsome joined yet? I hear the reactions is sort of a mix between ''he's the life of the old forums'' to ''Oh crap what have you done!?''
First of all, for those forums that allow a number of downvotes to effectively collapse a post, they're set up that way mostly to get rid of spam. The Telltale forums have never needed this, because they've had a team of dedicated moderators to eradicate spam posts. The other forums either don't have a moderation team like this, or they get so much traffic it can't effectively be moderated except by the crowd.
Regarding the TWD forums attracting a number of users who are, um, less than polite, keep in mind that the less-than-polite people are the ones who stand out, especially to moderators who have to clean up after them. When you attract a large number of new people, even if we say 10% of them are rude, 10% of a large group of people is still quite a few. It's also stand out in a forum that Emily and others worked hard to make "not lame." Hopefully new members will still be treated fairly to begin with, and I haven't seen our moderation team do anything other than that. There are other forums on the Internet where new members seem to attract abuse from more senior members, and I don't want to see Telltale ever turn into anything of the sort.
I've posted before that it's a little weird that I'm still here when I don't care so much for your newer games, and when King's Quest got canceled, it was pretty apparent you're not going back. So why did I stick around? Basically because of the people in the General Chat area posting stuff I could relate to and found interesting. A lot of that isn't happening anymore. So I'm going to have to keep asking myself why I'm here, and one of these days, the answer is going to be that I shouldn't be. I'm still here at the moment, though, and I'd buy Poker Night 2 if you released it in a way I could run it on a PC that isn't Steam-only.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this. Another set of forums that recently changed formats to something buggy and unwanted is Yahoo Groups, and their management is mostly keeping silent, broadcasting the attitude that they really don't care that the feedback thread to return to the previous format has over 51,000 votes so far. Even if you stick with this forum format, at least you're willing to give your reasons and point of view about it, in a better way than, "That's our decision, if you don't like it, there's the door."
Again I most likely will join the DF forums sooner or later (Most likely sooner :P). Any chance we could get a list of the old TTG members who moved there? (So far off the top of my head, Jen,Darth,Guru (I think),Flesk,Kaiser,You,Judomonkey, and I'm not sure but I think Vain and Den are there?)
I'm really glad that the downvote feature will not be used in a punitive way, and only provide an accurate reflection of how the community feels about the user.
@ryan: You forgot Alcoremortis, Gman and CorruptBiggins I think. And I think Icedhope and Ringmaster posted some. Mr. Nutt? Inm8#2 has been there for a long time.
@ryan: You forgot Alcoremortis, Gman and CorruptBiggins I think. And I think Icedhope and Ringmaster posted some. Mr. Nutt? Inm8#2 has been there for a long time.
there were a lot of people on the general chat forums that hadn't liked any of the new games telltale made for years and were only on the telltale forum because they were used to using it, there were quite a few that had previously said they would leave when the new forums came along, but i think that really they just needed any reason to leave because they just weren't interested in telltale games any more, sure a community that sticks around well after the games have been released is a good thing, but what's the point of sticking around a forum for a company that you don't like anymore
You mean like all the new Walking Dead fans that took off to start a new forum?
To answer your question, it's "hope". Hope that a game may come out that we'd love again. We know they have the potential, we know they can and we want them too. Hope that has been squashed with recent statements before and after the new forum format. What was said about the current direction before the switch destroyed the hope we had and the small, tight group that remained, stayed because of each other. Our love of this place was stretched thin at that point and the new format, which was very poorly received, was just another hole in a sinking ship for the OT community. If that hope was left untarnished and the direction of TTG was deemed positive and favourable to us, I don't think so many would have left.
The hope was waning for a while now with every new game but the knife just came more recently that made the proverbial plunge into the heart. I do not remember the exact quote at the moment but it was a very no BS, this is the future, statement that really hurt a lot of us. So it's not that we weren't interested. It's the opposite. It was love that broke the OT community. The atrocious new forum was just another poke in the ribs for us.
Don't get me wrong though, I believe the format will be a monumental disaster upon the Fables release. A completely unreadable jumble of text like a big reddit AMA where half of it gets left ignored. It wont just be the old guard that wont like it.
Yeah, especially when you consider that those Walking Dead fans thought the forum was so difficult and unfriendly to discussions that, instead of muscle through and try to use it, they did a whip around and paid to create their own forum. I repeat, they would rather pay for a barebones, but useable forum than use the free one provided by Telltale.
Comments
@Darth: We are inviting lots of "noobs" to the site. That is what the site is for! Everytime we get a new license (The Walking Dead, Fables, much more unannounced stuff) we are going to be flooded with "noobs". You simply have to get used to this. It's who we are. And they are going to be who they are going to be. You're stating your disrespect for The Walking Dead fans, and presuming that the Wolf fans will disrespectfully "trash the place" like a hotel room. You don't want to sound like an old curmudgeon who just wants old fans and rejects all the new, do you? As a mod, please attempt to make them feel welcome. The rest of your post sounded to me like questions that have been asked and answered repeatedly. Was I missing some new aspect of your argument?
@Darth
I have to say. I respect you as a mod, and your position. However I must agree with Kevin. On the issue that you assume all people are stupid. That shows a lack of compassion, perhaps fair judgement. Maybe someone had violated one of the rules on this fourm. Would you outright ban them and dismiss their appeal, deeming them too stupid to understand their mistakes.
Interesting. I'm not exactly entirely a hundred percent comfortable either with a mod who believes the worst in people. I try to believe in the best, till I am proven wrong. I say this respectfully. It would be very different if you just a regular old joe on the forums. You are in a position of influence as a mod. You in a way are a representative of Tell Tale being a mod on their forums.
I'm just speaking my personal opinion. Please take no offense or insult. I'm not flaming. Just explaining my point of view. In situations. I would think mods are neutral not biased that people have the intelligence a tad bit higher then animals. I grant you, people do dumb things. That doesn't mean equally all of them are dumb, just because of a bad experience with a few.
I'm a tad bit surprised at the mods taking personal offense at this site. Its okay if you dislike it, there should be room for debate. In my humble opinion since Tell Tale is the one who pays the bills on the site would not be fair to say its up to them if they want to put pink clowns on their site. I mean they do own the company.
I would suggest an email feedback be set up, where people can personally email and detail their frustrations. Having dirty laundry aired in public can not be a good thing. Even more so close to the release date of one major game. I respectfully request to believe in people till they do something to remove your confidence. Rather then believe they all are stupid.
In closing a noob is a person that is new to the site, vastly different then using your word stupid people. We are all noobs at the start, then we advance. According to what you believe, people don't advance their intelligence.
...y;know what? I had a big long post here defending myself and explaining my views, but when I went to look back on it, I realized I didn't care.
If you think what I said prevents me from moderating this forum, than by all means, strip of me of my modship and I will leave, head held high and never looking back But I can tell you right now that my personal opinion has not stopped me up until now, and I have no intention of letting it stop me in the future. I am fully capable of acting in an impartial manner, even when I'd rather not. I am fully capable of acting in a professional manner, even when I don't want to. I am fully capable of moderating this site, even if I'd rather be doing something else.
I can't be bothered to defend myself further than that. If you really want to focus on this, then go ahead. But I'd say we have far bigger problems, and I am not one of them.
Edit: OK, looking back at my previous post, I probably picked the wrong word. Replace 'noobish' with 'immature' and you have closer to what I meant. New people can act incredibly immature, and they can drown out everyone else. We got this with TWD, and we're probably going to get it with TWAU. If we don't... I'll admit I was wrong. If we do... well. Then I get to do a "I told you so" dance.
And this post... wow, this one came across as angry. I guess I got a wee bit defensive there. But you know what? I don't regret saying ANY of it. Like, AT ALL. Seriously.
@fusedmass - I don't know you well, what with you being fairly new and all, but you seem to be assuming an AWFUL lot with that post.
I wouldn't outright ban anyone for breaking a rule. If anything, I'm known for being too LENIENT with people. It's how I tend to approach things on the forum. My personal opinion doesn't affect how I act on the site, which since becoming a mod has been in a (somewhat) professional manner. I am aware of who I represent and I try to ACT accordingly, even if I may not personally THINK that way.
The mods are negative about this foru-COMMUNITY for many of the same reasons everyday posters are negative about it, and for a few reasons that you aren't seeing (the mod tools, among other things). We're not just mods - we're also people who loved the site, and the changeover has been... complicated to say the least, so yeah, we're not gonna love everything about it. The fact you're surprised at this surprises ME.
I'm going to pick one sentence that you posted, because it's phrased so awkwardly that I have trouble making sense of it:
...I really hope you aren't asking me to change how I feel about people. Because that... that's just not gonna happen, and certainly not because you just up and asked me to. You can ask me to change how I act on this forum, but don't ask me to change how I feel.
As for that last line of yours... I phrased my post awkwardly and that, I suspect, kicked things off, for which I apologise. I didn't mean to actively insult newcomers, just point out that some of them - a rather vocal some - can act rather childish.
I think it's time I came into this thread, and shared my thoughts. I understand Telltale is a growing company and it needs to make changes for the future licenses, and eventually(Doubtful) new I-P.
What I don't understand is if something had received a majority of a negative feedback, and negative feedback from the moderators. Why it was okay to push something forward that in a way probably cost about 30,000 dollars or so. Instead of taking a $299 dollar license and just upgraded to a newer version. Then again it's your company you do what you see fit for it's advances.
This was my home..this is where I met my friends and my best friend..this place had something no other community had developer interaction and developers listening to fans.
While I'm glad to see you Kevin taking the time to talk to everyone and answer questions. It just hurts to see something I love destroyed to the point where...it's a ghost town, and hell even the fables board seems vacant.
@Darth
One last tiny thing I do want to point out. I noticed you were a little aggressive at the idea of more people coming to the site. Personally that to me is anti social behavior, which is fine and actually normal in some people. As a mod you would want to encourage people coming to the site. Not become frustrated at more people arriving.
With the walking dead success, more people will come after the wolf among us. Calling them stupid. Perhaps might understandably make them feel a little insecure. From the bio ware site. I recall some people getting into verbal fight with the staff. If it had been a mod that called people stupid on there site. It would have made gaming news articles online websites. It's not good PR.
It would have deeply angered the public. As a mod even though its your personal opinion. You are a representative of Tell Tale Games. Someone might not buy a game because they feel insulted at something you said to them or the idea you believe they are stupid. That's discouraging behavior.
However, that's my last comment on the subject. Personally. I try to be as nice as possible with people, picking my words carefully. I don't dislike anyone, even now writing this to you. Not an inch of hate or being offended is in me. I am just looking at this angle through other peoples view. But as you guys were. I'm back to refreshing the site and waiting for news of the wolf among us.
If only there were some sort of disclaimer that could be carried around by mods indicating that their opinions are their own and are thus not representative of Telltale. Maybe it can even be displayed at the end of each of their posts. Ah well. A man can dream.
I wasn't going to get drawn into this, but here's the heart of the issue.
For a lot of us, this site was the center of an active internet life. We used it to meet people, make friends. Most of the friends I have made online, and certainly the most long-lasting, I met on these boards. We went from discussing games in longwinded and meandering discussions, to silly forum games, drama, support through hard times, the whole deal. We became good enough friends that we started hanging out on AIM, then Skype, then Google Hangouts, then real life. I've met people literally from around the world on these boards, met one of my favorite young animators (Majus), played through Kings Quest I with a guy from Iran (Jon NA), made my first solo vacation trip with people I'd never met in person prior (PAX), discovered the world of comic books (well, Marvel ones, anyways), learned more about classic film than I ever thought was possible (saw Citizen Kane because of a movie thread), and so much more.
Without these boards, I would have done none of these things. I wouldn't know so many wonderful people. And with the way they're structured now, it makes it more difficult to talk to them. Some, I've got on Facebook or Google +, some have moved to DoubleFine, but a lot of the people I enjoyed talking with are so frustrated with the new format that they've left and I'll likely never hear from them again.
This is why I'm upset with the forum change. It broke up a community that I loved and scattered them. Even if the forum were changed back to the vBulletin style today, most of them wouldn't come back. I don't think Telltale intended this or anything, I don't think you guys are cackling maniacally in your executive chairs (cigar in hand, of course) or anything... but I am saddened by the result. I'm even more saddened by the fact that the moderators and community members brought up the fact that this would happen, brought it up many times during the beta, in fact, and that the risk of that outcome was ignored. And most of all, I'm saddened by the fact that even after the decimation of this community, there's no acknowledgment that anything has even changed.
TL;DR: Because of the forum change, people I liked have disappeared out of my life forever. They might as well be dead, because I have no other way of getting in contact with them.
i remember when we had signatures the mods had something like "there opinions are their own and in no way represent the opinions of tell tale." or something in that manner. i think we should have signatures back. if for anything it would help show that to new people that don't know right off the bat that there not employed by telltale to moderate the site. some people don't know of things like that and just start assuming things. it would help deter them from that. not to mention having awesome signatures again!!!
I don't think Marsden was trying to say that all new users will be immature. On the contrary, we've seen plenty of mature users come in with The Walking Dead. But we did also see a number of immature ones. We saw that when given anonymity, some of them saw fit to harass other users, ruining the blog comments for everyone and getting them taken away. It's made us just a bit jaded about anonymous features.
@DomeWing333
Take this as an example. A republican says something greatly offense. Its plastered on the news channel 24/7. That Republican is part of a larger network. As mods as apart of a community. That Republican can say, that is his personal opinion and place a disclaimer. Yet people will still blast his party (GOP/Republican) as a whole for it.
I'm not honestly trying to aggravate a situation. Speaking logically. Just because the words at the end of the sentence say this persons personal point of view. Doesn't mean the people will take it as such. It's human nature to have emotions and be offended at insults. Let's switch gears however steer the conversation to something else.
@GuruGuru214 - Yes, thank you. That's pretty much what I meant.
Well, I guess I get to re-write my entire post, since this wonderful new forum design completely deleted it when I clicked "post comment" and didn't actually post anything. Perfect.
Anyway, I've been around for quite some time on these forums. I think my join date is circa 2005, if I remember correctly. I used to buy every single thing Telltale produced. Even those crappy CSI games that I didn't much care for. Why? Because I wanted them to succeed. I wanted them to continue making the games I had grown up playing and loved to death. I wanted them to create adventure games.
Over the years, I've spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on their games. I bought every version of every game, I bought almost every piece of merchandise I could afford to lay my hands on. For a while, I was very happy. They made games I love, and still love to this day. I practically worshiped the company. I spent hours on the forums defending their slow customer support when Tales of Monkey Island launched, and was even personally thanked in a PM from the person in charge of customer support when she left the company for all the defending I'd done of Telltale and her. I have a post count in the thousands because this used to be my home. I met almost every single person that I talk to daily, to this day, through this community. I loved the days when Emily, Jake, David, Nika, Shaun, Chuck, Brendan, and others, even Dan Connors himself, would post regularly, and answer any questions we had without holding back any more than they had to.
That said, I don't recognize this company anymore. Kevin's recent posts aside, the developer presence is almost nothing on the forums. Even the blog has gone from having a real person's name attached to it, to just "Telltale Games posted:". There's no soul left in this place. It feels like a heartless corporate machine. Do you know what it feels like? It feels like LucasArts, circa 2004. "Marketplace realities" must have finally caught up to Telltale Games.
I feel like I couldn't possibly be more meaningless in the eyes of this company. It feels like they have absolutely no respect for the fans that put them where they are today. We spent our hard-earned cash on you because you were our shining ray of hope in an otherwise bleak future for adventure games. What has that gotten us? Tossed out like yesterday's jam.
Hey, thanks for not letting me decide if that was a link or a video, forums!
They don't care about us.
It's been over 3 years since Telltale has produced a single game that was designed for us. They couldn't possibly have made it clearer that they don't care about what we want, and the forum revision is just an extension of that. Nothing we say matters, because there's more money in ignoring us than listening to us. And that's what this industry is about. Money. Not doing right by your die-hard supporters.
Money.
OK, see, now I just want to know who gave SHODANFreeman a thumbs down.
And was that a disagreement thumbs down or "fuck you" thumbs down?
@Kevin:"So many "@'s... if only this wasn't classic" style comments I could respond to each individually. Ammirite?"
No. You know the old forums had this + button where you could select multiple posts, and when you hit "reply" it would append every selected post quote to the top of your own post. Then you could reply to several people in the same post and the whole thing would be put at the bottom of the thread so everyone can find it.
You can't do that here, so no. You are in fact wrong about that.
If only I could go straight to the most recent post rather than one 15 'comments' back and then work my way forward just because it takes time for comments to be read even though I've read them a half dozen times already,
Neato the community ate my post.
The forum has directly changed my life in a profound way. I met a slew of amazing, smart, witty people who I am now great friends or at least aquantences with, one of which I have developed the deepest friendship I have ever had. I can't even imagine life without him anymore. Many of us are on first name basis with each other. Many of us have met each other in meatspace.
The connections I made here led me to my career and consequently my significant other. I literally would not be where I am today without the forum.
And that's just me. Many of us have met our best friends, lovers, and, heck, at least one has met their fiancee here.
That's why it fucking hurts when we're ignored. This place meant so much to us.
If there's one thing I can say positively about this whole ordeal, it's that the fact that we've gone through so much to stick together proves that at we at least care about each other.
@Kevin
Just noticed this. Laughed myself silly for a good two minutes.
@Kevin and @Fusedmass.
I understand that while yes what Darth said may have been wrong about everyone being stupid and immature but There are 2 things. At the start of Darth's first post. He said he wasn't saying this as a Mod, He was saying this as a long time member and fan of these forums. Second and again I mean no offence to anyone but I can see where he is going. There was a lot of people who joined just to immature.
What about the people who kept jumping in the TWD forums with fake titles and instead spoiled TWD episodes(I had TWD Ep 3 spoiled thanks to that). Then there was the people who kept making threads to complain about the same thing. ''WHERES MY TWD EPISODE!?'' We had a Sam & Max 25th anniversary post which was great for old fans, spammed by TWD fans asking for TWD episode 4 only after 2 or 3 weeks since TWD Ep 3. Look again I mean no offence to anyone but I'm just putting down my thoughts and I can honestly see where Darth is coming from. I will admit that saying that the same thing will happen the TWAU forums is too early but you have to remember that most likely the TWD forums probably left a bad taste in everyone's mouths and it was most likely worst for the Mods like Vain,Guru,Darth, and Jen who had to sit and clean up through the spoilers and that kind of stuff.
Wait... if downvotes can filter out content that doesn't work for us, can we just... like... downvote the whole forum? Will that make it go away? Where's the button for this?
Just letting you know I have to step away for the rest of the evening. Thanks for the feedback and lively discussion. It's quite illuminating. Thanks!
@ryannumber1gamer
I really would rather not get involved in the inner politics of this forum. It's obvious that this community was a close bit group of friends back when Tell Tale was doing moderately well. However as most things do with time. It changes. Since the success of The walking dead, more people have come. Tell Tale has perhaps even changed their attitude towards people.
Since their expanded success. They wanted to improve their image and the core community didn't like that. I can understand that. However you will have to learn to accept with the rising success of their games. This isn't just solely a forum where friendships are it. Its a community to discuss their games. I understand some of you are very close. However because some bad apples ruined some spoilers. Doesn't mean everyone is like that.
Its clear, no matter how many thumbs down you give a post. It doesn't change that this community is changing with more people. Now he did say he wasn't saying that as a mod. That simply doesn't erase and wash away his mod status. He is a mod regardless. It would be like a convicted killer, saying. "I'm not saying this as a murder" you cannot separate the two for the sake of a post.
This section is getting rather hostile, and honestly the attitudes here towards new members and even the mods towards tell tall staff is making me a tad uncomfortable. I will leave this section in the capable hands of mods and direct my attention to the games. Thank you Gentlemen.
Yeah, and you know where The Walking Dead people are now? They got so fed up with this place, they all left and started their own forum where they could actually have meaningful discussions about The Walking Dead. It isn't just us. We're just more vocal because we have a stronger attachment to this place and don't really want to leave. We probably will, eventually, but it's like pulling a mussel off of a rock.
@Fusedmass. Look I have nothing against you,Kevin or no members as you can see from the several times I said I mean no offence to anyone. I honestly don't see where people discussing games has anything to do with what we are talking about. I gave points that defended Darth's post. People who joined the TWD forums did stuff that is extremely immature like using fake thread titles and spoiling stuff. That's not discussing a game. That's tricking someone into thinking they are talking about an earlier episode that you have played but instead the person was just being an asshole and spoiled the new episode for no reason (which was bad for me since in the UK every episode was delayed on PSN) People talking about friendships is referencing the point that the whole community has been scattered around by this new forum because despite months of continued feedback of dislike towards this new forum, it was still the same apart from some minor changes.
This causing many people new and old to leave be scattered around the place with most being at Double Fine (Jeez I'm not even on the Double Fine forums and still I'm mentioned in the platformers thread there
) My point here is that I didn't mention anywhere that I had anything against new members but you can't fight facts that a lot of immature people came with TWD and don't get me wrong because there was mature people there as well who wanted to have honest and good discussions about the episodes instead of spoiling things for no reason and joining just to complain over and over and over.
Ryan, are you coming over the Double Fine forums or what?
You should.
Eh I'm not really sure yet. Sooner or later I probably will (I got The Cave with PS Plus and if I like it I'll probably join to discuss it) Say Hi to all the TTG people over there for me though, Tell them I'll probably join sooner or later
.
That reminds me, A little off topic but has coolsome joined yet? I hear the reactions is sort of a mix between ''he's the life of the old forums'' to ''Oh crap what have you done!?''
lol.
(btw, you don't need to own DF games to hang out in their off topic forum, which is where you'd find us anyway.)
A couple of comments.
First of all, for those forums that allow a number of downvotes to effectively collapse a post, they're set up that way mostly to get rid of spam. The Telltale forums have never needed this, because they've had a team of dedicated moderators to eradicate spam posts. The other forums either don't have a moderation team like this, or they get so much traffic it can't effectively be moderated except by the crowd.
Regarding the TWD forums attracting a number of users who are, um, less than polite, keep in mind that the less-than-polite people are the ones who stand out, especially to moderators who have to clean up after them. When you attract a large number of new people, even if we say 10% of them are rude, 10% of a large group of people is still quite a few. It's also stand out in a forum that Emily and others worked hard to make "not lame." Hopefully new members will still be treated fairly to begin with, and I haven't seen our moderation team do anything other than that. There are other forums on the Internet where new members seem to attract abuse from more senior members, and I don't want to see Telltale ever turn into anything of the sort.
I've posted before that it's a little weird that I'm still here when I don't care so much for your newer games, and when King's Quest got canceled, it was pretty apparent you're not going back. So why did I stick around? Basically because of the people in the General Chat area posting stuff I could relate to and found interesting. A lot of that isn't happening anymore. So I'm going to have to keep asking myself why I'm here, and one of these days, the answer is going to be that I shouldn't be. I'm still here at the moment, though, and I'd buy Poker Night 2 if you released it in a way I could run it on a PC that isn't Steam-only.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this. Another set of forums that recently changed formats to something buggy and unwanted is Yahoo Groups, and their management is mostly keeping silent, broadcasting the attitude that they really don't care that the feedback thread to return to the previous format has over 51,000 votes so far. Even if you stick with this forum format, at least you're willing to give your reasons and point of view about it, in a better way than, "That's our decision, if you don't like it, there's the door."
@Chyron
Again I most likely will join the DF forums sooner or later (Most likely sooner :P). Any chance we could get a list of the old TTG members who moved there? (So far off the top of my head, Jen,Darth,Guru (I think),Flesk,Kaiser,You,Judomonkey, and I'm not sure but I think Vain and Den are there?)
Myself and coolsome are there.
Yeah taking another look at the forums I see you and some others are there. Had no idea coolsome was there yet though but its good to know
I don't know why we keep listening to Kevin Bruner. He's obviously an intentionally abusive troll that derails conversations.
@Kevin
I'm really glad that the downvote feature will not be used in a punitive way, and only provide an accurate reflection of how the community feels about the user.
@ryan: You forgot Alcoremortis, Gman and CorruptBiggins I think. And I think Icedhope and Ringmaster posted some. Mr. Nutt? Inm8#2 has been there for a long time.
@Flesk. Again, who I said was who I remembered was on Double Fine off the top of my head. Mr.Nutt does post on it as well.
It wasn't meant as criticism. Just helping to fill the gaps.
there were a lot of people on the general chat forums that hadn't liked any of the new games telltale made for years and were only on the telltale forum because they were used to using it, there were quite a few that had previously said they would leave when the new forums came along, but i think that really they just needed any reason to leave because they just weren't interested in telltale games any more, sure a community that sticks around well after the games have been released is a good thing, but what's the point of sticking around a forum for a company that you don't like anymore
You mean like all the new Walking Dead fans that took off to start a new forum?
To answer your question, it's "hope". Hope that a game may come out that we'd love again. We know they have the potential, we know they can and we want them too. Hope that has been squashed with recent statements before and after the new forum format. What was said about the current direction before the switch destroyed the hope we had and the small, tight group that remained, stayed because of each other. Our love of this place was stretched thin at that point and the new format, which was very poorly received, was just another hole in a sinking ship for the OT community. If that hope was left untarnished and the direction of TTG was deemed positive and favourable to us, I don't think so many would have left.
The hope was waning for a while now with every new game but the knife just came more recently that made the proverbial plunge into the heart. I do not remember the exact quote at the moment but it was a very no BS, this is the future, statement that really hurt a lot of us. So it's not that we weren't interested. It's the opposite. It was love that broke the OT community. The atrocious new forum was just another poke in the ribs for us.
Don't get me wrong though, I believe the format will be a monumental disaster upon the Fables release. A completely unreadable jumble of text like a big reddit AMA where half of it gets left ignored. It wont just be the old guard that wont like it.
Yeah, especially when you consider that those Walking Dead fans thought the forum was so difficult and unfriendly to discussions that, instead of muscle through and try to use it, they did a whip around and paid to create their own forum. I repeat, they would rather pay for a barebones, but useable forum than use the free one provided by Telltale.
"Bringing stuff forward from the past, that’s not a huge focus for us right now."?
I'm sure there was another, more negative comment, but I can't seem to find it ATM.