Episode 3 ruined everything
The first time I'm not looking forward to new release at all. If it comes out, I'll play, if not, I'm not bothered. Well done TTG! episode 3 ruined everthing and also appeared everything about that fake choice making.
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I'm tired of everyone complaining about Carley/Doug's death and the supposed lack of choices in the game.
Carley/Doug were most likely close to Lee, with the former even hinting at a romance. Lilly had been strained since day one, and Larry's death only served to make her more paranoid. It's fitting that she would snap and try to take control of something, because she had nothing left, and kill someone. I tried to stay neutral throughout episode 2 and decided against killing Larry and thought I had a good grasp of what was right and wrong. I made decisions that, while may not have been the best for survival, helped me keep my humanity intact. I had allies, especially in Carley, who I shared a mutual trust and bond with. Episode 3 throws all of that for a loop and Carley/Doug's death as well as Chuck's words of wisdom served as a lesson that Lee has to do whatever it takes to protect the ones he loves. I found myself in episode 3 making more pragmatic and sometimes harsh decisions for the sake of survival. Carley's death pushed me over the edge and made me decide that whoever would try to fuck with me would get left behind.
Now, ask yourselves, what other game makes a player go through an emotional journey like that? For what purpose would being a God-like character who can control every situation and save everybody he wants towards a happy ending serve? I am kind of pissed at the TV show for keeping Shane and Daryl as long as they did just because the characters were popular. Just about everybody who died in season 2 were arguably the least popular characters. At the end of Episode 3 of the game, I was left with people I had bad blood with or just flat out didn't trust. The safety is gone. This is the zombie apocalypse.
Lee foreshadowed somewhat the events and themes of episode 3 when reflecting on Hershel's farm with Kenny at the pharmacy: "You didn't have a choice. You think you do when you look back on it, but in a moment? When things are really out of control? You don't have any choice."
Especially in episode 3, we'll find that a lot of the time, the story will be driven by the plot, and that means things will be out of your control. People will die, but that doesn't mean you should take a fatalist approach to life. What's important is what you do with the situations put in front of you and the time you have with the people you're with. You will grow as a person, and in this case, things will definitely resonate with Clementine. Just because someone dies doesn't mean that everything you did with them was for nothing. This game IS about choice, but not control. In the zombie apocalypse, not everything will be driven by characters, and not everything will be fair, and it shouldn't be. Carley/Doug's death was tragic, but it was not written for pure shock value. You have to react to what happened. How mad are you? You spent three episodes building a relationship with these people and now that they're gone, what will you do? Are you willing to abandon Lilly? What does this mean for your decision-making in the future? When you find out that Ben was responsible, what do you plan to do with him? That's what matters.
My (Lee's) relationship with Carley changed me. This was someone I spent three episodes building a trust with, and who was a constant ally through all my troubles and supported me. Her death enraged me, but I wasn't mad at the game. I was mad at Lilly, I eventually got mad at Ben, but I was also mad at myself for not doing what it took to keep my loved ones safe. Don't tell me my decision to save her in episode 1 didn't matter. She was an ally who was killed senselessly and I would from that point forward would make sure it wouldn't happen again. I decided I would be honest about my past with everyone in the group. I decided not to hide anything from Omid and Christa because I felt that would make Carley, Clementine, and even old Hershel proud. THAT'S my choice.
If you want to look at it from a technical perspective, there's no conceivable way for the story to accommodate EVERY SINGLE permutation players want. In a story that spans five episodes, things will get harder to stay coherent and Telltale is doing a commendable job with providing a compelling narrative at the same time as providing players with as much choice as they can. If players were given a free roam of the plot, the story would fall apart eventually. Take Skyrim, for example. For the most part, a player has near complete control of how they want to handle a quest, at the cost of a compelling narrative. Mass Effect also understands the need for a coherent plot and even though it gives players choice, certain things WILL happen. Just because certain outcomes are inevitable does NOT mean there is an illusion of choice. The Walking Dead has done a better job, in my opinion, in making choice matter than Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I've played several scenes over again dozens of times and the amount of difference your choices make is staggering. In no way was this created lazily, so give the writers a break.
You have a choice, and although it may not matter in the long run, it matters NOW.
I wonder why don't they designed it in this way that in episode 2 all companions died except Larry. You are forced to stick with Larry and a new joined horse and a monkey to carry on finishing the rest of the episodes. That would definitly save you guys a hell lot of money and makes more people to feel my situation right now.
not really
amen. Preach itttt
Chuck was right. He said "no matter you what you do, that girl(clem) will end up the same" just as the rest of the crew, will all end up the same. Which was a hint from TTG, telling you again that choices DO NOT matter!
The choices matter, but they don't have to matter throughout the entire game. Videogames haven't evolved far enough to allow for the millions of permutations some of you seem to want. In the end game devs have to set boundaries.
You want complete choice? pick up a DnD rulebook and start a pen and paper roleplay.
I love this episode. Lack of choices? I see it as loosing control. You/Lee cannot control or decide everything. Everything turns to shit. Now, Lilli is gone, Kenny is down... Lee tells Ben to step up, but it is Lee who has to step up now.
/agree
Illusion. Other games that say you can influence the story are not lying.
Geez look at Blade Runner the game...
I reviewed Blade Runner: The Game for Adventure Classic Gaming a few years ago. Superb experience - but I don't get what your point is? The influence over Ray McCoy's decisions is still an illusion - most of the major player-specific plot divergences come right at the very end, which is a lot easier to do than in the middle of a game.
The emotions you felt. A character that died - and meant something to me - might have meant something completely different to you, or even been a different character entirely. In my save, I feel like I have protected Clementine every step of the way - did you? If these small nuances aren't enough for you then of course that's fine, but I think it's a shame because they are what make The Walking Dead - at least for me personally - so special.
To add to that, the smaller differences throughout blade runner were randomly generated at the start of each game, which is actually the game affecting your choices rather than your choices affecting the game.
Totally wrong. I don't want infinite choices. But yes I want 1 or 2 MAJOR choices that actually matter. So far, not a single choice -after 60% of the game 3/5 episodes- mattered. Nothing had any impact. At all.
We don't want every decision to completely branch the story and telltale having to make 50 different cutscenes etc. But at least make the player feel in 1 or 2 occasions that his choice actually DID matter. And DID change something. Because as of now there are no signs of this ever happening and that is a huge disappointment.
It's a story game. It follows a set narrative.
The choices you make don't effect the eventuality of the story
Did you really expect the developers to make a game like that?
It would take so unbelievably long. And you fanboys already get irked when it takes longer than a month to deliver an episode.
If you want an unfathomably dynamic gameplay experience. Like someone else said. Pick up a pen-and-paper RPG. And even then the GM will prolly railroad the game to go down his set narrative.
This is a great adventure game, with some of the most emotionally engaging storylines I've ever had the pleasure to participate in. And that's what it is. Interactive fiction in graphic form. Not a zombie apocalypse simulator...
Still pissed about Doug though
How about when you chose Carly or Doug? That was a huge choice that really mattered.
how so? Both do the same and both die at the same point of the game. I was talking about a lasting decision that differs from what would happen if you chose something else. Just 1.
Carley antagonized Lilly into shooting her.
If Carley wasn't around she would have shot at Ben. Which she did. But good guy Doug was collateral damage.
Two completely different scenes. Not to mention the differences int eh story between the saving of either of them and their eventual death.
The only thing similar between the two scenarios is they both eventually die. That's it.
Everything else is different. How they contribute to the group and how they've helped Lee out all depend on that char's personality. The choice of who gets those extra 3 months of life is a pretty big decision.
Like real life some situations are beyond one person's control. Lilly was going to shoot who she thought was the traitor no matter what.
Guys, do you control life? Do you save people's lives just because you want to? Do you become rich just because you feel you should be? It is the struggles that you go true and decisions that you make that matter, not the results. Even in real life we don't always get to have the results that we want. The choices are what define you as people and that's the most important thing.
Some of you are really missing the point of this game. If you want a complete control over situations, go play Left 4 Dead and kill as much zombies as you want. Unfortunately life won't abide to every little whim you have, and neither will this game.
That alone would be fine. But the fact that they kill off every character except for clem and Kenny (Ben wasn't from the start) means that the decisions you made that only the dead characters know about can't really affect the story that much anymore. I'm not talking about RP differences because they are fine, but the fact that the story changes and that the characters act differently I have a hard time seeing as all of the characters who knew stuff from the first two episodes are dead.
I feel that in a way the choice of people that died (Carley/Doug instead of Ben) is partly because they want to reduce development time or maybe I'm just a pessimist.
How exactly are you expecting it to be different?
You are completely missing the point of what atleast I mean when I want the story to be changed. See my post above for details.
No shit Sherlock. This was originally promised to be a monthly episodic game. Now they sneakily changed it to periodically.
No, I'm not. It is wrong that dead characters do not affect that story. They do affect you, and Clem. The two most important characters in the story.
At least choices affect me, I'm not a superhero and I know my limits. I try to do what's best for the group from my perspective and I get a bit depressed when it fails... because you know it's like life.
And as I stated before, Doug players such as myself really got the shaft. I can only take comfort in knowing that the story and scenarios flow better with Doug than opposed to Carley.
Like I said, you missed the point...
I never said that the dead characters don't influence the story, I said the choices that you made before that only dead characters know about don't change the story. Which means that most of the decisions in episode one and two don't really matter. Choosing Doug or Carley for instance matters because the characters that are alive still remember them. Other choices that don't include the characters that are alive like shooting that girl at the motel now has no significanse as the only character that remembers it is you (and Glenn which is not doing any more cameos). So you see, many choices are nulled out by the fact that the choices you made are only known by dead people...
That's fine, but do you actually remember what always pop's up when you start a new episode of the game? No? Well, then I wouldn't care that much either.
That's the best way to describe it. It's not an RPG guise! It's interactive fiction!
I would, but I don't feel like creating a game where I know what will happen for me to play said game and know everything about it. Do you guys not understand that "Go make your own game" thing really fails when it comes to adventure games?
Back on track now...