I would, but I don't feel like creating a game where I know what will happen for me to play said game and know everything about it. Do you guys not understand that "Go make your own game" thing really fails when it comes to adventure games?
Back on track now...
Do you understand where the argument "I would but it would ruin it for me" falls flat when talking about a game company that did just that? You complain about a game that is limited by the technology available and the time they have to program it.
On a separate note, do you realize the butterfly effect that would have if they did give you one? They would have to in effect, from there on out, build two different games. One for one path, one for another. that would LITERALLY double the release schedule delays. And that is just 1 decision.
Do you understand where the argument "I would but it would ruin it for me" falls flat when talking about a game company that did just that? You complain about a game that is limited by the technology available and the time they have to program it.
On a separate note, do you realize the butterfly effect that would have if they did give you one? They would have to in effect, from there on out, build two different games. One for one path, one for another. that would LITERALLY double the release schedule delays. And that is just 1 decision.
I know I'm bringing up a game known for it's decisions and an old game that you probably haven't played, but you do know that a game like for instance Blade Runner had a lot of decisions and meaningful choices and that was released ages ago? I don't really get the limited by technology thing. And don't start with the development time. I'd rather have the promised product in a year than 80% in two months. But that's just my cup of tea.
I know I'm bringing up a game known for it's decisions and an old game that you probably haven't played, but you do know that a game like for instance Blade Runner had a lot of decisions and meaningful choices and that was released ages ago? I don't really get the limited by technology thing. And don't start with the development time. I'd rather have the promised product in a year than 80% in two months. But that's just my cup of tea.
Blade runner got mentioned in the first page, those choices weren't as meaningful as you're making out.
I know I'm bringing up a game known for it's decisions and an old game that you probably haven't played, but you do know that a game like for instance Blade Runner had a lot of decisions and meaningful choices and that was released ages ago? I don't really get the limited by technology thing. And don't start with the development time. I'd rather have the promised product in a year than 80% in two months. But that's just my cup of tea.
Would you be willing to wait a year for 1 episode? I don't think so.
Choices not mattering is a valid complaint. I liked episode 3, really, but not only did any of your choices not matter throughout the episode, your previous decisions also get sidelined.
The story was good, but I think criticism is more helpful than just being a defensive fanboy.
It is a valid point, but not as huge a point as people are making it out to be. I personally feel the game is following the formula that Kirkman used in the majority of his comics. If you don't know what I mean, go read the past 100 issues. It will become apparent.
Blade runner got mentioned in the first page, those choices weren't as meaningful as you're making out.
Well then, maybe I just remember a game from 97' for having good graphics? That story is different every time you play it and you don't know how stuff is going to go down even if you have played it before. If they could do that back then they should be able to do some kind of branching story now no? And that was FMV in addition which is a horrible tool to work with when trying to lower costs.
But anyway. What I am saying is not that TWD is a bad game or that Episode 3 is bad. I just feel that a good product should be criticized when it shows flaws and that's what I'm doing. Hailing the game as the savior of gaming really isn't going to turn out a better Episode 4, so I'm trying to help in my way.
It is a valid point, but not as huge a point as people are making it out to be. I personally feel the game is following the formula that Kirkman used in the majority of his comics. If you don't know what I mean, go read the past 100 issues. It will become apparent.
Yes and that's fine, I get it (I've read a bit of it a while back). But the fact is that this game is supposed to give you a role and then let you work with it (inside of plausible boundaries of course). The fact is though that for a game that claims choices and decisions as it's most important feature, it doesn't seem to focus on that. I love the story, don't get me wrong, but I don't feel like having a lot of lee'way (;)). I don't want you to be able to save everyone or to be able to kill random people in the group, or do other wierd stuff. What I'm asking for is a branching story to a logical degree.
Tell me three significant changes in the end of episode 3 because of your choices. In the end of episode 2 I could easily have answered that question, but now it's getting harder for me.
Well then, maybe I just remember a game from 97' for having good graphics? That story is different every time you play it and you don't know how stuff is going to go down even if you have played it before. If they could do that back then they should be able to do some kind of branching story now no? And that was FMV in addition which is a horrible tool to work with when trying to lower costs.
But anyway. What I am saying is not that TWD is a bad game or that Episode 3 is bad. I just feel that a good product should be criticized when it shows flaws and that's what I'm doing. Hailing the game as the savior of gaming really isn't going to turn out a better Episode 4, so I'm trying to help in my way.
Except that episodic games don't really lend themselves to that kind of story. Especially one with a coalescent story. I get what you are saying, but this is TTG. TTG makes episodic games; they don't make games that are full games all at once. Jurassic park was the exception and it failed horribly. HORRIBLY.
If another gaming company was making the game, I would say yes, you are right...give them all the time in the world to get that game out there...but I just don't see Telltale making an episodic game that branches. It would be programming hell.
Yes and that's fine, I get it (I've read a bit of it a while back). But the fact is that this game is supposed to give you a role and then let you work with it (inside of plausible boundaries of course). The fact is though that for a game that claims choices and decisions as it's most important feature, it doesn't seem to focus on that. I love the story, don't get me wrong, but I don't feel like having a lot of lee'way (;)). I don't want you to be able to save everyone or to be able to kill random people in the group, or do other wierd stuff. What I'm asking for is a branching story to a logical degree.
Tell me three significant changes in the end of episode 3 because of your choices. In the end of episode 2 I could easily have answered that question, but now it's getting harder for me.
I would disagree that choices was ever billed as the most important feature in the game. It simply one of the features that makes it different than most games. Even most adventure games.
Agree with the OP, episode 3 ruined everything for me. Quite ironically, right after Carley died I quit and next time I tried to play my save games were corrupted, so I'd have to do the whole game again.
Guess do I want to?
The comics don't give you any promise of choice so it's not a question of "what if..."
Well that all depends on how you are looking at the game. It's not meant to be a game that has completely different outcomes to the episode depending on your choices. It's meant to be an adventure game with the ability to affect the story with your choices. Now does that mean that the story will be completely different down to the outcome? No, I don't think they ever promised that.
Agree with the OP, episode 3 ruined everything for me. Quite ironically, right after Carley died I quit and next time I tried to play my save games were corrupted, so I'd have to do the whole game again.
Guess do I want to?
then really, they did their job by evoking feelings of betrayal from you. You might not like it, but that is something authors have done many times. Look at George R.R. Martin: He kills characters off all the time independent of whether they are popular or not.
It is a valid point, but not as huge a point as people are making it out to be. I personally feel the game is following the formula that Kirkman used in the majority of his comics. If you don't know what I mean, go read the past 100 issues. It will become apparent.
Oh and for the record let me show you what I mean when I'm talking about meaningful choices. For instance:
You know the gun "charlotte"? Lee has it with him on the RV and if you keep Lilly with you after the accident on the road then she runs of with it right? Well if you threw her out on the road then he would still have the gun with him (which he for some reason ditches on the RV). A small difference like that can change so much when it comes to choices (at least for me). And this doesn't mean that you somehow knew that this was going to happen beforehand so you still don't have control really, but IT MAKES SENSE. And that's what I mean when I mean choices matter. The fact that something is different, not necessarily people alive or dead (clementine's hoodie is a good example). It's not as hard as people are claiming it to be.
When someone (TT) states that the choices/decisions you make matter, you assume that they will have a larger impact on the story. TT stating that your choices matter is like stating that the game is a monthly episodic. Either way, episode 3 sucked and I can't believe it took as long as it did to create. Aside of what Lilly did, there was nothing shocking. The game/story is very predictable and agree with the OP, I could care less about the next episode. It's not about the characters, it's the entire game.
First of all, Wade, Just because someone has a different opinion from you, it does not give you the right to berate and belittle them. You lost the debate as soon as you did.
Second, I personally disagree with almost 95% of your entire post. I, however, will not stoop to calling you names for it.
First of all, Wade, Just because someone has a different opinion from you, it does not give you the right to berate and belittle them. You lost the debate as soon as you did.
Second, I personally disagree with almost 95% of your entire post. I, however, will not stoop to calling you names for it.
I agree with you and that he was way out of line, but I just presented a meaningful choice a bit up on the page. Do you think something like that would be impossible to program? If so I just think that you must be a fanboy as you can't criticize TT at all. I'm not saying that you have to change major things for it to be different...
I agree with you and that he was way out of line, but I just presented a meaningful choice a bit up on the page. Do you think something like that would be impossible to program? If so I just think that you must a fanboy as you can't criticize TT at all. I'm not saying that you have to change major things for it to be different...
I think given the format for the game, it would be near impossible to accommodate all the choices over the term of 5 episodes for the reason I gave before: the butterfly effect. You make 1 choice that changes things per episode, hypothetically.
That means that in episode 1 they need to program an alternate timeline for everything in the game from that point on in episode 1. Not that bad so far, but still a lot of programming work.
Then in episode 2, they need to create 2 completely different paths based on your choice in episode 1 and work it into a choice in episode 2. Starting to get more muddy.
Then in episode 3 they now need to make 4 different paths for the game.
Do you see how it gets to be impossible to meet their deadlines given only 1 choice per episode? Now if you are talking about cosmetic changes, like the hoodie, They did give you one of those in this episode: her hair. If you are talking about more than cosmetic changes, you are getting much more into complicated territories.
I think given the format for the game, it would be near impossible to accommodate all the choices over the term of 5 episodes for the reason I gave before: the butterfly effect. You make 1 choice that changes things per episode, hypothetically.
That means that in episode 1 they need to program an alternate timeline for everything in the game from that point on in episode 1. Not that bad so far, but still a lot of programming work.
Then in episode 2, they need to create 2 completely different paths based on your choice in episode 1 and work it into a choice in episode 2. Starting to get more muddy.
Then in episode 3 they now need to make 4 different paths for the game.
Do you see how it gets to be impossible to meet their deadlines given only 1 choice per episode? Now if you are talking about cosmetic changes, like the hoodie, They did give you one of those in this episode: her hair. If you are talking about more than cosmetic changes, you are getting much more into complicated territories.
I would understand the difficulty as long as these decisions took a ton of work each, but the stuff I described is easy to interchange into the story. The fact that you think that would be diffucult relative to the stuff they already did with the doug/carley differences makes your argument silly at best.
I would understand the difficulty as long as these decisions took a ton of work each, but the stuff I described is easy to interchange into the story. The fact that you think that would be diffucult relative to the stuff they already did with the doug/carley differences makes your argument silly at best.
But like other pointed out, the doug/carley differences really are cosmetic at best. They really don't do that much differently.
But like other pointed out, the doug/carley differences really are cosmetic at best. They really don't do that much differently.
Fight scene changes (both st. John's and bandit fight.), dialogue changes, doug's alarm system changes things in both episode 2 and 3. They are killed in different ways, etc etc. This is enough of a difference for me to say that the choice matters, although it matters much less now as only three characters knew him/her and they weren't the ones who knew them the best.
I can not disagree more. I am pumped for episode 4 maybe not as much as i was for episide 3, but the only thing i agree with you slightly is that your choices really dont make a difference, whoch im ok with bc its still a great storyline.
I'm tired of everyone complaining about Carley/Doug's death and the supposed lack of choices in the game.
Carley/Doug were most likely close to Lee, with the former even hinting at a romance. Lilly had been strained since day one, and Larry's death only served to make her more paranoid. It's fitting that she would snap and try to take control of something, because she had nothing left, and kill someone. I tried to stay neutral throughout episode 2 and decided against killing Larry and thought I had a good grasp of what was right and wrong. I made decisions that, while may not have been the best for survival, helped me keep my humanity intact. I had allies, especially in Carley, who I shared a mutual trust and bond with. Episode 3 throws all of that for a loop and Carley/Doug's death as well as Chuck's words of wisdom served as a lesson that Lee has to do whatever it takes to protect the ones he loves. I found myself in episode 3 making more pragmatic and sometimes harsh decisions for the sake of survival. Carley's death pushed me over the edge and made me decide that whoever would try to fuck with me would get left behind.
Now, ask yourselves, what other game makes a player go through an emotional journey like that? For what purpose would being a God-like character who can control every situation and save everybody he wants towards a happy ending serve? I am kind of pissed at the TV show for keeping Shane and Daryl as long as they did just because the characters were popular. Just about everybody who died in season 2 were arguably the least popular characters. At the end of Episode 3 of the game, I was left with people I had bad blood with or just flat out didn't trust. The safety is gone. This is the zombie apocalypse.
Lee foreshadowed somewhat the events and themes of episode 3 when reflecting on Hershel's farm with Kenny at the pharmacy: "You didn't have a choice. You think you do when you look back on it, but in a moment? When things are really out of control? You don't have any choice."
Especially in episode 3, we'll find that a lot of the time, the story will be driven by the plot, and that means things will be out of your control. People will die, but that doesn't mean you should take a fatalist approach to life. What's important is what you do with the situations put in front of you and the time you have with the people you're with. You will grow as a person, and in this case, things will definitely resonate with Clementine. Just because someone dies doesn't mean that everything you did with them was for nothing. This game IS about choice, but not control. In the zombie apocalypse, not everything will be driven by characters, and not everything will be fair, and it shouldn't be. Carley/Doug's death was tragic, but it was not written for pure shock value. You have to react to what happened. How mad are you? You spent three episodes building a relationship with these people and now that they're gone, what will you do? Are you willing to abandon Lilly? What does this mean for your decision-making in the future? When you find out that Ben was responsible, what do you plan to do with him? That's what matters.
My (Lee's) relationship with Carley changed me. This was someone I spent three episodes building a trust with, and who was a constant ally through all my troubles and supported me. Her death enraged me, but I wasn't mad at the game. I was mad at Lilly, I eventually got mad at Ben, but I was also mad at myself for not doing what it took to keep my loved ones safe. Don't tell me my decision to save her in episode 1 didn't matter. She was an ally who was killed senselessly and I would from that point forward would make sure it wouldn't happen again. I decided I would be honest about my past with everyone in the group. I decided not to hide anything from Omid and Christa because I felt that would make Carley, Clementine, and even old Hershel proud. THAT'S my choice.
If you want to look at it from a technical perspective, there's no conceivable way for the story to accommodate EVERY SINGLE permutation players want. In a story that spans five episodes, things will get harder to stay coherent and Telltale is doing a commendable job with providing a compelling narrative at the same time as providing players with as much choice as they can. If players were given a free roam of the plot, the story would fall apart eventually. Take Skyrim, for example. For the most part, a player has near complete control of how they want to handle a quest, at the cost of a compelling narrative. Mass Effect also understands the need for a coherent plot and even though it gives players choice, certain things WILL happen. Just because certain outcomes are inevitable does NOT mean there is an illusion of choice. The Walking Dead has done a better job, in my opinion, in making choice matter than Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I've played several scenes over again dozens of times and the amount of difference your choices make is staggering. In no way was this created lazily, so give the writers a break.
You have a choice, and although it may not matter in the long run, it matters NOW.
Excellent points! I agree with you and I'm tired of people fucking complaining about the choices not mattering. People don't see how the choices really matters.
You defended TellTale without coming off as a fanboy sucking their dick, haha.
Excellent points! I agree with you and I'm tired of people fucking complaining about the choices not mattering. People don't see how the choices really matters.
You defended TellTale without coming off as a fanboy sucking their dick, haha.
Good job.
Then of course you can tell me three meaningful differences that can be found by the end of episode 3 right? I can't.
I agree with you. Most Telltale games of this make try to give you the best narrative and plot over complete godly control over who lives and dies.
I'll admit that I was a bit annoyed when Carley/Doug died, but, I predicted they'd die anyway as soon as they announced they'd be making a sequel - I thought "There's no way they're going to keep a determinant character over two games."
Just because of this death everyone seems to be making a big deal out of it but it's the same as real life - no matter what you can't save everyone.
I feel it was very clever. It makes any bond with Lilly turn sour and you lose one of the most trustworthy characters. Your left Kenny and ben who aren't excatly reliable in a tough spot and a bunch of new characters that you don't know if they deserve your trust yet.
Basically it leaves you in a terrible state. It IS a shame you lose some of the better characters, but in the end it might pay off.
Then of course you can tell me three meaningful differences that can be found by the end of episode 3 right? I can't.
Sure can. How about the choice to tell everyone about your past or not? Or how about the decision of whether you choose to fight kenny or talk him down? Or how about the choice of whether to let kenny kill his son or you do it? Also, how you treated kenny in this episode does a lot to repair your relationship with him if you chose to not side with him in episode 2. That isn't even counting the woman in the beginning, that if you let her suffer lets you get more time to gather supplies.
I agree with you. Most Telltale games of this make try to give you the best narrative and plot over complete godly control over who lives and dies.
I'll admit that I was a bit annoyed when Carley/Doug died, but, I predicted they'd die anyway as soon as they announced they'd be making a sequel - I thought "There's no way they're going to keep a determinant character over two games."
Just because of this death everyone seems to be making a big deal out of it but it's the same as real life - no matter what you can't save everyone.
I feel it was very clever. It makes any bond with Lilly turn sour and you lose one of the most trustworthy characters. Your left Kenny and ben who aren't excatly reliable in a tough spot and a bunch of new characters that you don't know if they deserve your trust yet.
Basically it leaves you in a terrible state. It IS a shame you lose some of the better characters, but in the end it might pay off.
My points have never included that this had a bad story only that by the end of episode three you have pretty much rebooted the choice making as it seems little before this point will make it past this marker.
Sure can. How about the choice to tell everyone about your past or not? Or how about the decision of whether you choose to fight kenny or talk him down? Or how about the choice of whether to let kenny kill his son or you do it? Also, how you treated kenny in this episode does a lot to repair your relationship with him if you chose to not side with him in episode 2.
Give me one indication of how this changes anything. I was a total douche on one playthrough and a nice guy an another and still got the exact same replies from Kenny, and choices should change that no? And that you told people about the past hasn't really impacted anything beyond that road showdown. Personally I see the only real changes by the end of episode three being clems hoodie and hair which isn't that groundbreaking
Give me one indication of how this changes anything. I was a total douche on one playthrough and a nice guy an another and still got the exact same replies from Kenny, and choices should change that no? And that you told people about the past hasn't really impacted anything beyond that road showdown. Personally I see the only real changes by the end of episode three being clems hoodie and hair which isn't that groundbreaking
I got different reactions...Maybe it was your choices.
Then you prolly sided against him one too many times. In my game Kenny was depressed of course but harbourned no ill will towards Lee, toher than what is normally expected after losing one's family.
Epiosde 3 Choices do matter because they reflect on who lives and dies
I give up. If you want to hail thos game as perfect then go on ahead, but you aren't really giving real feedback. I love this game, but I see room for improvement.
Have you ever played an adventure game before TWD Xeboiz?
Plenty, but the one closest to this would probably be blade runner. This game has it as a main feature to be changed by decisions made however which makes it less like a traditional adventure game.
A few examples of adv. Games would be:
Monkey island (series)
Day of the living tentacle
Blade runner
Phantasmogoria (1and2 although 2sucks)
Etc.
The emotions you felt. A character that died - and meant something to me - might have meant something completely different to you, or even been a different character entirely. In my save, I feel like I have protected Clementine every step of the way - did you? If these small nuances aren't enough for you then of course that's fine, but I think it's a shame because they are what make The Walking Dead - at least for me personally - so special.
I agree. I made three different save slots and I thought it was really cool the different things that happened.
-Fighting Kenny/Talking it out with him
-Shooting Duck yourself/Letting Kenny shoot him
-Doug dies/Carly dies (you feel different about each death)
-Multiple ways to raise Clementine. (Morals/Whatever for survival/etc)
-Multiple ways to make your Lee
-Siding with Kenny/Lilly
-Telling the group about your secret/ not telling anyone/only telling selected people
-& much more
I think I'm the only one who appreciates these different choices and changes, since I see people bitch about the choices not mattering. I thought it was really cool the different things that play out which make this game that much more special.
Plenty, but the one closest to this would probably be blade runner. This game has it as a main feature to be changed by decisions made however which makes it less like a traditional adventure game.
A few examples of adv. Games would be:
Monkey island (series)
Day of the living tentacle
Blade runner
Phantasmogoria (1and2 although 2sucks)
Etc.
Well then you know more than most about how these types of games are formatted and executed. To expect a plethora of branching storylines is really beyond the scope a traditional graphic adventure game.
Well then you know more than most about how these types of games are formatted and executed. To expect a plethora of branching storylines is really beyond the scope a traditional graphic adventure game.
I don't think anyone expected a "plethora" of branching storylines, but from the advertising ("Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series.") I would at least expect a handful of those and certainly differences in the survior group at the end of EP3.
Also, I completely disagree with your statement that branching storylines are beyond the scope of a traditional graphic adventure game. Did you ever play "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis"? That's a great example, don't you think?
I think adventures are one of the most suitable game types to host a branching story. It may be more complicated than an interactive movie but certainly easier than a RPG.
Admittedly, it is a lot of work but if TTG is not willing to put this effort in their games they should at least not advertise it. I'd be happy with a linear adventure TWD...
I'm tired of everyone complaining about Carley/Doug's death and the supposed lack of choices in the game.
Carley/Doug were most likely close to Lee, with the former even hinting at a romance. Lilly had been strained since day one, and Larry's death only served to make her more paranoid. It's fitting that she would snap and try to take control of something, because she had nothing left, and kill someone. I tried to stay neutral throughout episode 2 and decided against killing Larry and thought I had a good grasp of what was right and wrong. I made decisions that, while may not have been the best for survival, helped me keep my humanity intact. I had allies, especially in Carley, who I shared a mutual trust and bond with. Episode 3 throws all of that for a loop and Carley/Doug's death as well as Chuck's words of wisdom served as a lesson that Lee has to do whatever it takes to protect the ones he loves. I found myself in episode 3 making more pragmatic and sometimes harsh decisions for the sake of survival. Carley's death pushed me over the edge and made me decide that whoever would try to fuck with me would get left behind.
Now, ask yourselves, what other game makes a player go through an emotional journey like that? For what purpose would being a God-like character who can control every situation and save everybody he wants towards a happy ending serve? I am kind of pissed at the TV show for keeping Shane and Daryl as long as they did just because the characters were popular. Just about everybody who died in season 2 were arguably the least popular characters. At the end of Episode 3 of the game, I was left with people I had bad blood with or just flat out didn't trust. The safety is gone. This is the zombie apocalypse.
Lee foreshadowed somewhat the events and themes of episode 3 when reflecting on Hershel's farm with Kenny at the pharmacy: "You didn't have a choice. You think you do when you look back on it, but in a moment? When things are really out of control? You don't have any choice."
Especially in episode 3, we'll find that a lot of the time, the story will be driven by the plot, and that means things will be out of your control. People will die, but that doesn't mean you should take a fatalist approach to life. What's important is what you do with the situations put in front of you and the time you have with the people you're with. You will grow as a person, and in this case, things will definitely resonate with Clementine. Just because someone dies doesn't mean that everything you did with them was for nothing. This game IS about choice, but not control. In the zombie apocalypse, not everything will be driven by characters, and not everything will be fair, and it shouldn't be. Carley/Doug's death was tragic, but it was not written for pure shock value. You have to react to what happened. How mad are you? You spent three episodes building a relationship with these people and now that they're gone, what will you do? Are you willing to abandon Lilly? What does this mean for your decision-making in the future? When you find out that Ben was responsible, what do you plan to do with him? That's what matters.
My (Lee's) relationship with Carley changed me. This was someone I spent three episodes building a trust with, and who was a constant ally through all my troubles and supported me. Her death enraged me, but I wasn't mad at the game. I was mad at Lilly, I eventually got mad at Ben, but I was also mad at myself for not doing what it took to keep my loved ones safe. Don't tell me my decision to save her in episode 1 didn't matter. She was an ally who was killed senselessly and I would from that point forward would make sure it wouldn't happen again. I decided I would be honest about my past with everyone in the group. I decided not to hide anything from Omid and Christa because I felt that would make Carley, Clementine, and even old Hershel proud. THAT'S my choice.
If you want to look at it from a technical perspective, there's no conceivable way for the story to accommodate EVERY SINGLE permutation players want. In a story that spans five episodes, things will get harder to stay coherent and Telltale is doing a commendable job with providing a compelling narrative at the same time as providing players with as much choice as they can. If players were given a free roam of the plot, the story would fall apart eventually. Take Skyrim, for example. For the most part, a player has near complete control of how they want to handle a quest, at the cost of a compelling narrative. Mass Effect also understands the need for a coherent plot and even though it gives players choice, certain things WILL happen. Just because certain outcomes are inevitable does NOT mean there is an illusion of choice. The Walking Dead has done a better job, in my opinion, in making choice matter than Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I've played several scenes over again dozens of times and the amount of difference your choices make is staggering. In no way was this created lazily, so give the writers a break.
You have a choice, and although it may not matter in the long run, it matters NOW.
I think the choices you do are more of psychologically nature and I love that.
Why have so many people choosed to let the last maneater live? I killed both because if one live he will just continue to eat human flesh and kill people for food.
Why did so many people stop to punsh him after the camera changed position and you saw that everybody is looking at you?
Everybody in this thread is more or less right. The decisions you make does not influence the story a lot but as said I love this psychologically decisions a lot. Shot her/him, safe him/her fight him/her....
Comments
On a separate note, do you realize the butterfly effect that would have if they did give you one? They would have to in effect, from there on out, build two different games. One for one path, one for another. that would LITERALLY double the release schedule delays. And that is just 1 decision.
I know I'm bringing up a game known for it's decisions and an old game that you probably haven't played, but you do know that a game like for instance Blade Runner had a lot of decisions and meaningful choices and that was released ages ago? I don't really get the limited by technology thing. And don't start with the development time. I'd rather have the promised product in a year than 80% in two months. But that's just my cup of tea.
Blade runner got mentioned in the first page, those choices weren't as meaningful as you're making out.
Well then, maybe I just remember a game from 97' for having good graphics? That story is different every time you play it and you don't know how stuff is going to go down even if you have played it before. If they could do that back then they should be able to do some kind of branching story now no? And that was FMV in addition which is a horrible tool to work with when trying to lower costs.
But anyway. What I am saying is not that TWD is a bad game or that Episode 3 is bad. I just feel that a good product should be criticized when it shows flaws and that's what I'm doing. Hailing the game as the savior of gaming really isn't going to turn out a better Episode 4, so I'm trying to help in my way.
Yes and that's fine, I get it (I've read a bit of it a while back). But the fact is that this game is supposed to give you a role and then let you work with it (inside of plausible boundaries of course). The fact is though that for a game that claims choices and decisions as it's most important feature, it doesn't seem to focus on that. I love the story, don't get me wrong, but I don't feel like having a lot of lee'way (;)). I don't want you to be able to save everyone or to be able to kill random people in the group, or do other wierd stuff. What I'm asking for is a branching story to a logical degree.
Tell me three significant changes in the end of episode 3 because of your choices. In the end of episode 2 I could easily have answered that question, but now it's getting harder for me.
If another gaming company was making the game, I would say yes, you are right...give them all the time in the world to get that game out there...but I just don't see Telltale making an episodic game that branches. It would be programming hell.
Guess do I want to?
then really, they did their job by evoking feelings of betrayal from you. You might not like it, but that is something authors have done many times. Look at George R.R. Martin: He kills characters off all the time independent of whether they are popular or not.
Oh and for the record let me show you what I mean when I'm talking about meaningful choices. For instance:
You know the gun "charlotte"? Lee has it with him on the RV and if you keep Lilly with you after the accident on the road then she runs of with it right? Well if you threw her out on the road then he would still have the gun with him (which he for some reason ditches on the RV). A small difference like that can change so much when it comes to choices (at least for me). And this doesn't mean that you somehow knew that this was going to happen beforehand so you still don't have control really, but IT MAKES SENSE. And that's what I mean when I mean choices matter. The fact that something is different, not necessarily people alive or dead (clementine's hoodie is a good example). It's not as hard as people are claiming it to be.
*snip*
Second, I personally disagree with almost 95% of your entire post. I, however, will not stoop to calling you names for it.
I agree with you and that he was way out of line, but I just presented a meaningful choice a bit up on the page. Do you think something like that would be impossible to program? If so I just think that you must be a fanboy as you can't criticize TT at all. I'm not saying that you have to change major things for it to be different...
- That means that in episode 1 they need to program an alternate timeline for everything in the game from that point on in episode 1. Not that bad so far, but still a lot of programming work.
- Then in episode 2, they need to create 2 completely different paths based on your choice in episode 1 and work it into a choice in episode 2. Starting to get more muddy.
- Then in episode 3 they now need to make 4 different paths for the game.
Do you see how it gets to be impossible to meet their deadlines given only 1 choice per episode? Now if you are talking about cosmetic changes, like the hoodie, They did give you one of those in this episode: her hair. If you are talking about more than cosmetic changes, you are getting much more into complicated territories.I would understand the difficulty as long as these decisions took a ton of work each, but the stuff I described is easy to interchange into the story. The fact that you think that would be diffucult relative to the stuff they already did with the doug/carley differences makes your argument silly at best.
But like other pointed out, the doug/carley differences really are cosmetic at best. They really don't do that much differently.
Fight scene changes (both st. John's and bandit fight.), dialogue changes, doug's alarm system changes things in both episode 2 and 3. They are killed in different ways, etc etc. This is enough of a difference for me to say that the choice matters, although it matters much less now as only three characters knew him/her and they weren't the ones who knew them the best.
Excellent points! I agree with you and I'm tired of people fucking complaining about the choices not mattering. People don't see how the choices really matters.
You defended TellTale without coming off as a fanboy sucking their dick, haha.
Good job.
Then of course you can tell me three meaningful differences that can be found by the end of episode 3 right? I can't.
I'll admit that I was a bit annoyed when Carley/Doug died, but, I predicted they'd die anyway as soon as they announced they'd be making a sequel - I thought "There's no way they're going to keep a determinant character over two games."
Just because of this death everyone seems to be making a big deal out of it but it's the same as real life - no matter what you can't save everyone.
I feel it was very clever. It makes any bond with Lilly turn sour and you lose one of the most trustworthy characters. Your left Kenny and ben who aren't excatly reliable in a tough spot and a bunch of new characters that you don't know if they deserve your trust yet.
Basically it leaves you in a terrible state. It IS a shame you lose some of the better characters, but in the end it might pay off.
My points have never included that this had a bad story only that by the end of episode three you have pretty much rebooted the choice making as it seems little before this point will make it past this marker.
Give me one indication of how this changes anything. I was a total douche on one playthrough and a nice guy an another and still got the exact same replies from Kenny, and choices should change that no? And that you told people about the past hasn't really impacted anything beyond that road showdown. Personally I see the only real changes by the end of episode three being clems hoodie and hair which isn't that groundbreaking
I mean by the end of ep. 3. During the episodes it has changed his responses, but in the end his feelings towards lee were exactly the same.
I give up. If you want to hail thos game as perfect then go on ahead, but you aren't really giving real feedback. I love this game, but I see room for improvement.
Plenty, but the one closest to this would probably be blade runner. This game has it as a main feature to be changed by decisions made however which makes it less like a traditional adventure game.
A few examples of adv. Games would be:
Monkey island (series)
Day of the living tentacle
Blade runner
Phantasmogoria (1and2 although 2sucks)
Etc.
I agree. I made three different save slots and I thought it was really cool the different things that happened.
-Fighting Kenny/Talking it out with him
-Shooting Duck yourself/Letting Kenny shoot him
-Doug dies/Carly dies (you feel different about each death)
-Multiple ways to raise Clementine. (Morals/Whatever for survival/etc)
-Multiple ways to make your Lee
-Siding with Kenny/Lilly
-Telling the group about your secret/ not telling anyone/only telling selected people
-& much more
I think I'm the only one who appreciates these different choices and changes, since I see people bitch about the choices not mattering. I thought it was really cool the different things that play out which make this game that much more special.
Well then you know more than most about how these types of games are formatted and executed. To expect a plethora of branching storylines is really beyond the scope a traditional graphic adventure game.
I don't think anyone expected a "plethora" of branching storylines, but from the advertising ("Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series.") I would at least expect a handful of those and certainly differences in the survior group at the end of EP3.
Also, I completely disagree with your statement that branching storylines are beyond the scope of a traditional graphic adventure game. Did you ever play "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis"? That's a great example, don't you think?
I think adventures are one of the most suitable game types to host a branching story. It may be more complicated than an interactive movie but certainly easier than a RPG.
Admittedly, it is a lot of work but if TTG is not willing to put this effort in their games they should at least not advertise it. I'd be happy with a linear adventure TWD...
CTP
This
Why have so many people choosed to let the last maneater live? I killed both because if one live he will just continue to eat human flesh and kill people for food.
Why did so many people stop to punsh him after the camera changed position and you saw that everybody is looking at you?
Everybody in this thread is more or less right. The decisions you make does not influence the story a lot but as said I love this psychologically decisions a lot. Shot her/him, safe him/her fight him/her....