The "friendship" with Lilly is fake.

Kenny has always had my back so I'll have his.

The relationship with Lilly never has you two joking and smiling at each other. She never cares to be your buddy or have your back in times of need.

She sees you as someone she can use. She sees you as a vote. Not Lee.

Side with Kenny he can see you're more then a vote.
You're more then Lee.

You're a friend. Get his back and he'll get your back.
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Comments

  • edited September 2012
    You're a friend.Get his back and he'll get your back.

    hmm,a friend until you disagree and step out of line, only once, and then you're not worth saving anymore.To me that's seems very petty and vindictive.Having to agree with someone 100% of the time for them to even consider you worthy of helping anymore stinks! I don't appreciate being someones little bitch.What kind of a friendship is that?
    In the pharmacy(episode 3) Kenny has a gun and he still doesn't help Lee?!

    To me, that makes Kenny's friendship the fake one.
  • edited September 2012
    What do you mean she doesn't have your back when you need it??

    Have you tried siding with her on the meat locker to see who has your back and who doesn't??
  • edited September 2012
    Yeah....that's what happened to me too. When Kenny says I needed to earn that boat ride or RV ride he means it. Unfortunately, I did not follow Kenny's commands as faithfully as others and stepped out of line now and again. Oh well, I didn't want to get on a boat anyways.
  • edited September 2012
    FarmerJoe wrote: »
    You're a friend.Get his back and he'll get your back.

    hmm,a friend until you disagree and step out of line, only once, and then you're not worth saving anymore.To me that's seems very petty and vindictive.Having to agree with someone 100% of the time for them to even consider you worthy of helping anymore stinks! I don't appreciate being someones little bitch.What kind of a friendship is that?
    In the pharmacy(episode 3) Kenny has a gun and he still doesn't help Lee?!

    To me, that makes Kenny's friendship the fake one.

    I try to keep my arguments to the fuck Kenny thread but I'll post here once.

    Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun. And when there are loads of walkers swarming, all using your pistol would do is waste ammo. And I bet most people are angry because they supported Keny until he meat locker, then he was angry at Lee. But I don't blame him, Lees who saved Lary risked his life and risked his family being eaten by the cannibals slowly and painfully for an old guy who treated everyone else like shit and might be dead. . They forced him to kill Larry by himself and shoulder the guilt himself, even if it was the right call.

    Also I think moments like Kenny trusts you enough to tell you Duck is bitten (he could have kept quiet, or lied) and when offers to teach you how to use he train, in case he dies, shows how much of a good friend he is.
  • edited September 2012
    Actually, you DON'T have to agree with him 100%. I refused to take the food in Ep2, and I shot the girl in Ep3 when he told me not to. And then? When the door fell on Lee and he called for Kenny, Kenny ran back to me without a moment's hesitation to try and help lift the door off of me. The friendship with Kenny DOES feel more satisying than the one with Lilly, at least I think. Especially because now Kenny is the only original group member left.

    And does Kenny tell you about Duck's bite no matter what? The dialouge after changes if he's your friend or not, but I'm not sure about the scene itself.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Actually, you DON'T have to agree with him 100%. I refused to take the food in Ep2, and I shot the girl in Ep3 when he told me not to. And then? When the door fell on Lee and he called for Kenny, Kenny ran back to me without a moment's hesitation to try and help lift the door off of me. The friendship with Kenny DOES feel more satisying than the one with Lilly, at least I think. Especially because now Kenny is the only original group member left.

    And does Kenny tell you about Duck's bite no matter what? The dialouge after changes if he's your friend or not, but I'm not sure about the scene itself.

    you didn't say if you help killed larry or not. if u help then he helps you in the drug store
  • edited September 2012
    SonnyN18 wrote: »
    you didn't say if you help killed larry or not. if u help then he helps you in the drug store

    Yea, I helped him with Larry. But people say that, no matter what, disagree with him once and he'll try to kill you. I don't always agree with him, and he helped me. So no, you don't have to do what he says all the time. Just proving a point.
  • edited September 2012
    Both are just too extreme. That's why I never trusted'em 100%. And considering that Kenny just lost his family, he'll be pretty much unstable in the next chapters( At least I think so), so I will just look out for me and Clem.

    Edit: Chuck seems to be a nice guy, though.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Yea, I helped him with Larry. But people say that, no matter what, disagree with him once and he'll try to kill you. I don't always agree with him, and he helped me. So no, you don't have to do what he says all the time. Just proving a point.

    no, what most people say is that if u disagree with him on that one point ( killing larry ) then he'll try to kill you
  • edited September 2012
    There's a fine line between not helping someone and killing them. Just because he's not sticking his neck out for you doesn't mean he's trying to kill you, it means you aren't his friend.
  • edited September 2012
    Both aren't friends.

    Kenny is an egocentric idiot who turns on you even if you agreed on 99% of the situations and only once didn't help (like KILL someone).

    Lilly is wannabe-boss and maniac.

    The only people I could consider being good friends in this series are unfortunately all dead or gone. That would be Doug, Carley, Glenn and Mark for me. Screw the rest of the people.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Actually, you DON'T have to agree with him 100%. I refused to take the food in Ep2, and I shot the girl in Ep3 when he told me not to. And then? When the door fell on Lee and he called for Kenny, Kenny ran back to me without a moment's hesitation to try and help lift the door off of me. The friendship with Kenny DOES feel more satisying than the one with Lilly, at least I think. Especially because now Kenny is the only original group member left.

    Yeah. Quoted myself. I feel so cheap.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Yeah. Quoted myself. I feel so cheap.

    *tucks a dollar in your g-string*
  • edited September 2012
    Bullshit Kenny is your friend. He uses you just as much as Lilly does. If you disagree with Kenny on one solitary thing, he will hold it against you forever, and will never respect you or consider you a friend. Seriously. Don't side with him in the meat-locker and see what happens.
  • edited September 2012
    I'll quote you too, just so you don't feel so dirty, K?
    Rock114 wrote: »
    And does Kenny tell you about Duck's bite no matter what? The dialogue after changes if he's your friend or not, but I'm not sure about the scene itself.

    He does, whether he's your friend or not. If Lilly outs Lee's past, Kenny does get a little shirty about honesty (on my Dougie game).
  • edited September 2012
    Ty Cy...but I kind of need money... btw, ty for that dollar master of aeons.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    ty for that dollar master of aeons.

    That's "Master"! Now put on something nice and get out on that stage! Before I pop ya one!
  • edited September 2012
    Yes Master! Whatever you say, just don't pull a Lilly on me!
  • edited September 2012
    Kenny is an interesting character. People either think he's an ally or scum based on whether they agree with him at a couple critical points. Disagree with him about the direction of the group (gasp, how dare Lee have his own opinion), and he shows his true colors. Agree with him all the time, and it seems like he has your back.

    For me, Kenny lost respect in two instances. First, he helps Duck without even a glance at the other guy or trying to come back. That told me he's looking out for his family, and not capable or willing to help others, including Lee or Clem. That was ok, but it made me realize he was no ally. When Kenny refused to help Lee in the barn, I knew that he was a coward, too. Lilly, who just had her father murdered and looted, came out swinging. She's a fighter, and I was sad she snapped. She may not be Lee's friend, but she didn't freeze up when Lee needed her.

    I agree that players can't have the same kind of fake friendship with Lilly that they have with Kenny. Lilly is more honest that she's out for hers while Kenny fools Lee.

    However, the people who side with Kenny don't see evidence that he's scum, so for those playthroughs, he's a friend. I hope there's a way for people to never have to disagree with Kenny and get betrayed. (Although I don't know how good a friendship is if it's based on always doing what the other person wants.)
  • edited September 2012
    Kenny has always had my back so I'll have his.

    The relationship with Lilly never has you two joking and smiling at each other. She never cares to be your buddy or have your back in times of need.

    See shes you as someone she can use. She sees you as a vote. Not Lee.

    Side with Kenny he can see you're more then a vote.
    You're more then Lee.

    You're a friend. Get his back and he'll get your back.

    I've had such friends. Thank you but no. A friend does not demand of you to be their bitch. Kenny is an egocentric bastard, who cannot stand any sort of disagreement. Even in your supposed "friendship" Lee's giving way more than he's receiving.
    Friendship is a two way thing. True friends never abandon you, even when you're wrong. They don't require you to prove yourself every minute.

    The relationship between Lilly and Lee is on entirely different level. They don't need to smile to know they are there for each other. To me that's more than satisfying.

    I'll give a simple example. In episode 2, when you're in the house and your group is just about to eat the meat, right after the argument, you have 3 options I think (maybe for with the .... option)
    1. Kenny, grab the gun!
    2. Lilly, grab a knife!
    3. Clementine, run!

    I've never tried 3, but I have 1 and 2.
    If you shout to Kenny, he is so slow to react that you can even question yourself whether he believes you or not.
    If you shout to Lilly, she grabs the knife, no questions about it and is ready to slice Andy's throat before he points a gun to her head.
    Real friends do not question you in situations like this one.
  • edited September 2012
    Kenny's stupidity has nothing to do with how good a friend someone is. I could tell my best friend, "Hand me the margarine." If he grabs the butter first, I can't say he's a bad friend. He's just stupid.

    The other obvious counterpoint is you tell two friends to help you kill someone. One says, "Kill? Are you serious?" and the other one says, "Don't have to tell me twice. I brought my own weapons!" Lily's crazy, man.
  • edited September 2012
    Kenny's stupidity has nothing to do with how good a friend someone is. I could tell my best friend, "Hand me the margarine." If he grabs the butter first, I can't say he's a bad friend. He's just stupid.

    The other obvious counterpoint is you tell two friends to help you kill someone. One says, "Kill? Are you serious?" and the other one says, "Don't have to tell me twice. I brought my own weapons!" Lily's crazy, man.

    Lilly is not crazy. She wasn't even slightly unstable in that example. Kenny does not confuse his weapon, so no I'm not talking about stupidity. It's his inability to listen to anything but his own voice. He would react fast had he seen Mark with his own eyes but he just doesn't believe Lee enough.
    Lilly however is more honest and open person. She's loyal to her own and she doesn't need Lee to tell her twice.
    We are not talking about killing people here, but about survival and danger. If Lee screams "Lilly, shoot Clem" she won't, so your "I brought my own weapons" argument is a bit invalid.
    As a whole Lilly is more open and honest person. If she's upset and offended, she will yell and storm around until she lets it all out. She doesn't hold grudges.
    Kenny is however a guy that will hold all against you. If you offend him or disappoint him, he'll just give you "The Look" and you can be sure he'll bring it and try to punish you in the worst possible moment. He's spiteful, egocentric coward.
    Lilly, of course, is in a very fragile state of mind at the moment. However, this is only a week since Kenny murdered her dad in front of her eyes.
  • edited September 2012
    So then by your breakdown of the scene, it's not friendship or intelligence that is the factor in the reaction time - it's how receptive they are to orders.
  • edited September 2012
    So then by your breakdown of the scene, it's not friendship or intelligence that is the factor in the reaction time - it's how receptive they are to orders.

    More like whether you need proof in order to believe a friend.
  • edited September 2012
    What I find disturbing about Kenny is reaction to Lee in the scene at the dinner table. Lee comes in screaming all sorts of shit and Kenny just sits there as if he didn't have any suspicions about the brothers in the first place.
  • edited September 2012
    Lilly is an egocentric bitch, who cannot stand any sort of disagreement. Even in your supposed "friendship" Lee's giving way more than he's receiving. True friends never abandon you and they don't require you to follow orders.

    On the upside, she's gone and not worth discussing.
  • edited September 2012
    Wrighty wrote: »
    I try to keep my arguments to the fuck Kenny thread but I'll post here once.

    Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun. And when there are loads of walkers swarming, all using your pistol would do is waste ammo. And I bet most people are angry because they supported Kenny until he meat locker, then he was angry at Lee. But I don't blame him, Lees who saved Lary risked his life and risked his family being eaten by the cannibals slowly and painfully for an old guy who treated everyone else like shit and might be dead. . They forced him to kill Larry by himself and shoulder the guilt himself, even if it was the right call.

    Also I think moments like Kenny trusts you enough to tell you Duck is bitten (he could have kept quiet, or lied) and when offers to teach you how to use he train, in case he dies, shows how much of a good friend he is.

    Doesn't the fact that Kenny saves you if you have previously done as he wanted invalidate the 'Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun'. Two or three bullets would of cleared the walkers on top of Lee but Kenny just stands there watching when Lee pleads for him to help.If the danger was too great or imminent for him why doesn't he just escape instead of just standing there observing Lee's struggles,to me that is a clear sign of his vindictive nature.
    He resents someone because they make him shoulder the guilt of killing Larry himself?what a big cry baby.

    As for Kenny not hiding the truth and telling Lee that Duck is bitten I'd say that Katjaa was the big influence there, as later events show. Is teaching Lee and Omid how to drive the train such a generous and unselfish act?what kind of a man would keep quite about information he holds that could keep fellow survivors safe, including a 8 year girl, if anything happened to him.

    @Rock114
    Did Kenny respect,as a good friend, your two differences of opinion or was he ready with the snide remarks and the inability to not point out what you did was the wrong choice and his should of been the right way to go?

    To me Kenny gets a lot more out of that friendship and I cant shake the feeling that Lee is being used.For me Kenny is a weak,vindictive,impulsive and hypocritical man with the taint of cowardice. I will recognize that he loves his family deeply and he did finally admit his weakness in not even trying to save Shawn. I'd say that the friendship with Lilly is more honest and feels a lot less deceptive than Kenny's.

    Scoff if you will but out of all the group members I'd rate Doug as the best friendship.To me he has the most compassionate and bravest heart than all of them.He also made me laugh.He would,very likely, be the one to give his life to save yours.Carley is good too but she had to be persuaded by Glenn and Lee to help Irene and she was all "let's go guys" when they reached the door and heard her screaming.Doug would of had no hesitation in saving a fellow survivor.I'm also not that keen on the fact that she throws herself on every type of Lee including those who told her that they didn't trust her.
  • edited September 2012
    He thought I was damn stupid when I put the girl out of her misery. I put both our lives in unecessary danger, decreasing our chances of getting out alive. From a survival standpoint what I did was dumb, and that's Kenny's standpoint. Yet, when I needed it, he still came back to help the door off of me. I don't need him to agree with everything I do, but as long as he watches my back he's cool in my book.

    I don't understand how making him shoulder the guilt makes him a "cry baby". He just killed what could have been a human being, right in front of said human being's daughter, in a very violent and messy way. He didn't like making sure Larry didn't get up. If he thought Larry could have been saved, he wouldn't have done it. He thought he saved everyone. If everyone you knew hated and resented you for saving their lives, and made you out to be the bad guy just so they didn't feel guilty, wouldn't you be more than a little angry? Because that's what Kenny thinks happened. He thinks that he, and may actually have, saved everyone.
  • edited September 2012
    If you are a fan of Lilly then you are noobs!!
  • edited September 2012
    False. Being a fan of Lilly =/= noob. She is a great, well written character with an excellent voice actress. It's just that some of us agree with Kenny during arguments because what he says makes sense to us, while what Lilly says makes sense to other people.
  • edited September 2012
    I still prefer Lilly though. I really like her character.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    False. Being a fan of Lilly =/= noob. She is a great, well written character with an excellent voice actress. It's just that some of us agree with Kenny during arguments because what he says makes sense to us, while what Lilly says makes sense to other people.

    Absolutely Rock114 :)
    I think it's a great testament to Telltale's writing how people have their preferred characters and can see differences in them that may appeal to them but may repel others.That's why the characters have a feeling of authenticity to me, and it's something I greatly appreciate.
  • edited September 2012
    See how friendly Kenny is when your opinions differ. Friends stick with you, regardless.
    You are the bodyguard to Kenny's family first and a friend only if you follow him without question, a henchman if you will.
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    Lilly is an egocentric bitch, who cannot stand any sort of disagreement. Even in your supposed "friendship" Lee's giving way more than he's receiving. True friends never abandon you and they don't require you to follow orders.

    On the upside, she's gone and not worth discussing.

    Don't discuss then.

    Rock114, if he was really that shining white knight that did the right thing, why is he always expecting everyone to praise him. He's too immature to understand that everybody will hate him for what he did and there will be no forgiveness. If he swallowed it up like a man, he could've redeemed to some extent in my eyes...
    I'm sure he could've lightened up the time spent in ep. 3 and that would make a change. Tough decisions are difficult, but that doesn't mean you have to destroy an entire group just because you can't admit you might've been wrong.
  • edited September 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    Don't discuss then.

    Really Yami, you need to get a new girlfriend. You're boring.
  • edited September 2012
    Cyreen wrote: »
    Really Yami, you need to get a new girlfriend. You're boring.

    and you need to mind your own business. Stop telling people what we should do or discuss, Kenny. I personally don't care.
  • edited September 2012
    IndigoHawk wrote: »
    However, the people who side with Kenny don't see evidence that he's scum, so for those playthroughs, he's a friend. I hope there's a way for people to never have to disagree with Kenny and get betrayed. (Although I don't know how good a friendship is if it's based on always doing what the other person wants.)

    I think that's catch-22 people have with him: He's cool as long as you do everything he says. It actually says more about the player's loyalty than Kenny's character imo. In defense of the 'Team-Kenny's out there, that should be their 'reward': Kenny will bring you with him to the boat in payment for your blind loyalty to all the dirty things he's done to get there.
    If after siding with him no matter, he still betrayed you? nah that would not be cool.
  • edited September 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    and you need to mind your own business. Stop telling people what we should do or discuss, Kenny. I personally don't care.

    I'm sorry. Go back to waxing poetic over a fictional character. :rolleyes:

    *yawn*
  • edited September 2012
    Yeah, making Kenny betray you even if you agree on EVERYTHING with him would be a poor choice on the part of the devs. Then there'd be no point, because he'll screw you no matter what...

    They could do what they did with Lilly. Side with her and you and her are cool, but she snaps and does something horrible to someone else. If Lilly had stayed, no doubt she would have backed and supported Lee had he forgiven her for what she did. They could have Kenny freak out and try to murder Ben, and depending on if you stop him or do nothing could be like the RV scenario with Lilly. The person you back is fine and dandy with you, but they can still do terrible things to other people.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Yeah, making Kenny betray you even if you agree on EVERYTHING with him would be a poor choice on the part of the devs. Then there'd be no point, because he'll screw you no matter what...

    They could do what they did with Lilly. Side with her and you and her are cool, but she snaps and does something horrible to someone else. If Lilly had stayed, no doubt she would have backed and supported Lee had he forgiven her for what she did. They could have Kenny freak out and try to murder Ben, and depending on if you stop him or do nothing could be like the RV scenario with Lilly. The person you back is fine and dandy with you, but they can still do terrible things to other people.

    whoa, you bring up a good point: What if you stop Kenny from his revenge on Ben? That could surely be the deal breaker: you stopping a man from getting to the killer of his family.
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