TTG really messed up the Kenny/Lee dynamic

edited February 2013 in The Walking Dead
It's really frustrating and unrealistic that Kenny would dislike Lee all the way until the end just because you didn't help him bash Larry's skull in. I've helped his family more than he has, yet he's hesitant to help me find Clem.

Why would TTG focus so much on one decision? How about giving some realistic responses for once. I'd love to tell Kenny about how i fed Duck, kept Larry from kicking his boy out. Put his son out of his misery when he was too weak to do it. Saved his ass from zombies when he's abandoned me twice. I mean, How much more could one man do? Give us a chance to tell Kenny off before Lees departure.
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Comments

  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    Give us a chance to tell Kenny off before Lees departure.

    I concur on this, I've helped Kenny in every possible situation with the one exception of helping him kill Larry. I don't think Kenny has really been keeping "score", so would be nice to get a ballsy proper manly response from Lee for once and tell Kenny in quite some detail on exactly how stupid Kenny really is and for that matter ignorant.

    I like Kenny, really do, and was quite surprised on his reaction about not helping me to find Clem. The narrative always seems that Kenny is the sort of man that holds a very strong grudge against you unless you agree with him. There hasn't been a satisfying response from Lee yet regarding Kenny's so called scorecard...
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    It's really frustrating and unrealistic that Kenny would dislike Lee all the way until the end just because you didn't help him bash Larry's skull in. I've helped his family more than he has, yet he's hesitant to help me find Clem.

    Why would TTG focus so much on one decision? How about giving some realistic responses for once. I'd love to tell Kenny about how i fed Duck, kept Larry from kicking his boy out. Put his son out of his misery when he was too weak to do it. Saved his ass from zombies when he's abandoned me twice. I mean, How much more could one man do? Give us a chance to tell Kenny off before Lees departure.

    I agree with this to a point. I picked it out from the beginning Kenny was going to be a douche. He is selfish and will find any reason to hate you if you against his plan, and there have been quite a few examples.

    *The fight with Larry in Episode 1.
    *The How apprehensive he is during certain situations.

    It makes sense Kenny doesn't want to help anyone unless it benefits him in someway.
  • edited October 2012
    Icedhope wrote: »
    I agree with this to a point. I picked it out from the beginning Kenny was going to be a douche. He is selfish and will find any reason to hate you if you against his plan, and there have been quite a few examples.

    *The fight with Larry in Episode 1.
    *The How apprehensive he is during certain situations.

    It makes sense Kenny doesn't want to help anyone unless it benefits him in someway.

    i dont even blame kenny anymore, it's TTGs fault. they've made a likeable character completely irrational. no man would hold such a grudge over a decison that didn't directly involve him. hell, the way i see it. kenny should be trying gain my forgiveness for killing larry in front of the group.

    i would have also enjoyed calling kenny out on his hypocrisy in terms of duck vs larry.
  • edited October 2012
    The problem about Kenny is that if you agree with him 100%, your essentially his yes man, never to disagree without being bitched out. Friends usually disagree with each other, you self-centered prick... Anyway, if he has your back whenever your on his side, he goes onto a hissy fit whenever your not. I was neutral between him and Lilly because I didn't desire to be liked or disliked from one and the other. Hearing Kenny say that he would do something else rather than finding an 8 year old girl in peril set me off something fierce. Thankfully, being a caring supporter towards his family is the trump card if you weren't on his side all the time. Damn man needs to learn how to look after others instead of being short-sighted and narrow-minded. Maybe there will be some redemption in the 5th episode, who knows?
  • edited October 2012
    If you've helped his family in the past then choose "Clem's my family" and he'll put his grudge aside and will help you
    or just tell him to "Grow up and go fuck himself"
    He will be your best pal and help you without question if you've pleased him i.e help him in the meat locker and drop Ben.

    Telltale has always given hints on what kind of a personality Kenny has and some people do keep grudges,I disagree that it's bad writing or unrealistic. For me,the complexity's of these characters personalities is the thing that makes them realistic and believable.
  • edited October 2012
    Thats weird because one of the things I came away really liking is the Lee/Kenny dynamic after Ep4, and I hated Kenny. From Ep 2 on the two would constantly clash from decision to decision and even came to blows at one point. All the way through though, I was good to his family and was there for him when they died, not because I particularily liked the guy but rather because it was the decent thing to do. And in the end when Lee goes after Clem I reminded Kenny of the importance of family which led to him (begrudgingly) agreeing to help get her back. To me, this showed actual development in his character and I went from hating his guts to immensely disliking him instead. (Although this is all predicated on a lie, as I havent told him I've been bit yet):D

    Its unfortunate that the outcome wasnt as satisfying for players who supported him at almost every turn though. Oh and you can tell Kenny to go fuck himself at the expense of trying to convince him to join your cause. Sounds like that might have been the more preferable move for you.
  • edited October 2012
    The game could use a relationship like the sims, 0 to 100. If I give a bad response to someone I lose 5 points with that person and so on. So when important moments come you would need a certain amount of points for a person to give you support.
  • edited October 2012
    The game could use a relationship like the sims, 0 to 100. If I give a bad response to someone I lose 5 points with that person and so on. So when important moments come you would need a certain amount of points for a person to give you support.

    Ugh really? Thats the kind of thing I'm so glad TTG hasn't tried to implement. Its so....gamey. Hypothetically you could fuck a man's wife AND steal his horse but as long as youre consistently nice to him afterwards, he'll eventually grow to love you? I hate stuff like that.
  • edited October 2012
    i dont know why people think kenny should be you best buddy even if you dont help him or back him up, maybe personally i would cut people more slack but i would still keep score, if you help me i will help you and vice versa, and if you don't help me you are an ass hole (zombie apocalypse kind of help) so why would kenny (a character who is reasonably calculating and pragmatic) help you if you don't help him, think about if you were playing the character of kenny you would have thought the time where Lee helped save everybody's life by stopping a giant zombie was way more important than the time Lee gave Duck half an apple or agreed with him.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    Give us a chance to tell Kenny off before Lees departure.

    I heard it's an option to tell him to fuck off and die if he doesn't want to go with you at the end of 4.
  • edited October 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    I heard it's an option to tell him to fuck off and die if he doesn't want to go with you at the end of 4.

    He doesn't say 'fuck off and die' exactly but it's along those lines.

    "You know what, Kenny? Go fuck yourself. You want to let a little girl die just because I didn't have your back every damn minute? Fuck you, man. Do whatever the fuck you want."

    It was perfectly delivered and had been coming for a long, long time. It's reminiscent of the speech he gives Larry if you threaten him back at the pharmacy.
  • edited October 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    I heard it's an option to tell him to fuck off and die if he doesn't want to go with you at the end of 4.

    Lee tells him to go fuck himself and grow up because he puts his grudge towards Lee before Clem's safety.I don't think you can tell Kenny that you want him dead? which is fine,I just wanted him gone not dead.


    You're very close RedKoolLoops but I'm sure he also tells Kenny to grow up(he did in mine)
  • edited October 2012
    He doesn't say 'fuck off and die' exactly but it's along those lines.

    "You know what, Kenny? Go fuck yourself. You want to let a little girl die just because I didn't have your back every damn minute? Fuck you, man. Do whatever the fuck you want."

    It was perfectly delivered and had been coming for a long, long time. It's reminiscent of the speech he gives Larry if you threaten him back at the pharmacy.

    Goddamn, I'm tempted to rewind and pick that choice, but I won't... playing with no rewinds :D
    I would totally like to see a playthrough on youtube where the player chooses that option, just to see Kenny's response to that...
  • edited October 2012
    Viser wrote: »
    Goddamn, I'm tempted to rewind and pick that choice, but I won't... playing with no rewinds :D
    I would totally like to see a playthrough on youtube where the player chooses that option, just to see Kenny's response to that...

    Best moment ever. He actually got scared and didn't see it coming at all :D

    I think that Kenny's character is perfectly intact. Most of us predicted he's exactly the man he turned out to be ever since episode 2. If you failed to see it, or just didn't want to accept it... well that's your fault.
    There is even a line in ep. 4 that is purposefully put there to tell you that all our analyses from F*** Kenny thread were correct. The line is something like this:
    Lee: Molly saved your life man.
    Kenny: So what? What has she done for me lately?
  • edited October 2012
    Either way, I'm glad I got to give Kenny a piece of my mind.

    And for me, the Lee/Kenny dynamic was ruined when he lifted that salt lick. But that's a whole other issue. :D
  • edited October 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    Best moment ever. He actually got scared and didn't see it coming at all :D

    I think that Kenny's character is perfectly intact. Most of us predicted he's exactly the man he turned out to be ever since episode 2. If you failed to see it, or just didn't want to accept it... well that's your fault.
    There is even a line in ep. 4 that is purposefully put there to tell you that all our analyses from F*** Kenny thread were correct. The line is something like this:
    Lee: Molly saved your life man.
    Kenny: So what? What has she done for me lately?

    that was my favourite quote of the whole episode :D
  • edited October 2012
    Either way, I'm glad I got to give Kenny a piece of my mind.

    And for me, the Lee/Kenny dynamic was ruined when he lifted that salt lick. But that's a whole other issue. :D

    Believe it or not, until that moment I was really neutral towards Kenny... sometimes even friendly!
  • edited October 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    Believe it or not, until that moment I was really neutral towards Kenny... sometimes even friendly!

    the way i saw it was that kenny is in a bad mood (understandably) and just gives a snarky comment, more a joke than an actual statement on how he believes the world works
  • edited October 2012
    I was cool with Kenny but didn't always side with him. I was trying to be neutral between he and Larry but I let him get punched. I was neutral between Kenny and Lilly too but somehow I sided with her once and he got pissed. But I did feed Duck and because I was cool with his fam he is coming with me to find Clem even though I didn't "have his back" which is a misconception on his part lol.

    I do like how their relationship has grown though, they are not buddy buddy but they do respect each other. When I showed the bite to him, he seemed almost like he didn't want to believe it. Could have been an ass and just left me but I thought that was cool.

    I also think that by not agreeing with the salt lick method put Kenny on edge toward me. The way I see it though, Kenny was absolutely right but it was Lilly's dad man. I can't just kill the dude before he turns because of that. It's like common courtesy during the ZA lol.
  • edited October 2012
    The way I see it though, Kenny was absolutely right but it was Lilly's dad man. I can't just kill the dude before he turns because of that.

    im still not convinced larry was dead. if he was going to turn, allow him to turn then drop the salt lick.

    that's another thing i would liked to call kenny on. hell, i wanted the option to kill duck w/o their permission like he did larry. the hypocrisy kenny displayed with bitten duck and unconscious larry is mindboggling.
  • edited October 2012
    the way i saw it was that kenny is in a bad mood (understandably) and just gives a snarky comment, more a joke than an actual statement on how he believes the world works

    That's what I thought too. Or maybe he was just embarrased that she knocked him on his ass.
  • edited October 2012
    I think the thread should be called "Kenny really messed up the Kenny/Lee dynamic" instead
  • edited October 2012
    I think the thread should be called "Kenny really messed up the Kenny/Lee dynamic" instead

    To be fair, Kenny isn't writing the story. Which I think is good, considering I don't think he could even read that well.
  • edited October 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    Best moment ever. He actually got scared and didn't see it coming at all :D

    I think that Kenny's character is perfectly intact. Most of us predicted he's exactly the man he turned out to be ever since episode 2. If you failed to see it, or just didn't want to accept it... well that's your fault.
    There is even a line in ep. 4 that is purposefully put there to tell you that all our analyses from F*** Kenny thread were correct. The line is something like this:
    Lee: Molly saved your life man.
    Kenny: So what? What has she done for me lately?

    i'm not a kenny fan, you can find my post in that f*** kenny thread. i just think it was pretty stupid for all of his loyalty to fall on that one decision. it should be a far left, middle, far right. according to how often we've agreed or disagreed, kenny responds applicably.
  • edited October 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    To be fair, Kenny isn't writing the story. Which I think is good, considering I don't think he could even read that well.
    hah! :D
  • edited October 2012
    There's a scene in the school where Kenny and Ben are working on the Armory door and Kenny is busting Lee for giving Molly the battery and Lee points out that Molly had saved Kenny's ass twice, to which Kenny replies "Yeah, well what has she done for me lately?" That line summed up Kenny perfectly.
  • edited October 2012
    That line was funny. However, it was like a caption someone puts on a picture of Kenny, not what he says himself. Maybe Kenny doesn't realize how true it is.
  • edited October 2012
    Yeah, if you save Shawn and side with Larry in the drug store, but kill Larry in the meat locker, Kenny will act as a best bud to Lee. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering how the episode 1 choices that concerned his family are being out of light when compared to the meat locker situation.
  • edited October 2012
    Zeruis wrote: »
    Yeah, if you save Shawn and side with Larry in the drug store, but kill Larry in the meat locker, Kenny will act as a best bud to Lee. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering how the episode 1 choices that concerned his family are being out of light when compared to the meat locker situation.

    exactly, it doesn't make any sense.
  • edited October 2012
    I didn't help Kenny kill Larry either, but I did help him when shit was going down with his family. Hence, when I was trying to get him on board for saving Clem, I appealed to that by explaining that I helped his family, so he should do the same. What did you guys do, just tell him he NEEDED to help? At the end of the day sometimes if you insist on yourself to someone who you've had disagreements with, maybe they won't risk their neck for you.
  • edited October 2012
    No issue here... This is how they build Kennys character. He's stubborn and it takes A LOT to ake him be satisfied with you. There are plenty of people like that in the world and that is how Kenny is.

    Deal with it. It's either your all for Kenny or not.

    Also Kenny doesn't appreciate anything really. When molly saves his life he's says "heh she hasn't done anything for me lately" in the classroom. This shows that you have to suck Kennys dick to get him on your side. But seriously he doesn't appreciate anything and he doesn't even appreciate someone SAVING HIS LIFE ESPECIALLY AFTER HE TRIED TO KILL HER!

    It's all in the character development, very interesting.
  • edited October 2012
    I didn't help Kenny kill Larry either, but I did help him when shit was going down with his family. Hence, when I was trying to get him on board for saving Clem, I appealed to that by explaining that I helped his family, so he should do the same. What did you guys do, just tell him he NEEDED to help? At the end of the day sometimes if you insist on yourself to someone who you've had disagreements with, maybe they won't risk their neck for you.

    that's not the point, kenny came with me as well. it's the response you receive before you have to talk him into it.
  • edited October 2012
    No issue here... This is how they build Kennys character. He's stubborn and it takes A LOT to ake him be satisfied with you. There are plenty of people like that in the world and that is how Kenny is.

    Deal with it. It's either your all for Kenny or not.

    Also Kenny doesn't appreciate anything really. When molly saves his life he's says "heh she hasn't done anything for me lately" in the classroom. This shows that you have to suck Kennys dick to get him on your side. But seriously he doesn't appreciate anything and he doesn't even appreciate someone SAVING HIS LIFE ESPECIALLY AFTER HE TRIED TO KILL HER!

    It's all in the character development, very interesting.


    it's not about kenny, it's TTG. they made the larry decision way too important. i could understand if he held a grudge about me trying to kick duck out, or not feeding his boy, but not agreeing with him to kill larry? pfft.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    it's not about kenny, it's TTG. they made the larry decision way too important. i could understand if he held a grudge about me trying to kick duck out, or not feeding his boy, but not agreeing with him to kill larry? pfft.

    Because refusing to help him kill Larry potentially put his whole family in danger. If he died in there, who would save Kat and Duck? But since he kills Larry wheter you help him or not, I figured he wouldn't hold a grudge for so long. I guess I was very wrong, especially after he doesn't help you twice.
  • edited October 2012
    Viser wrote: »
    Because refusing to help him kill Larry potentially put his whole family in danger. If he died in there, who would save Kat and Duck? But since he kills Larry wheter you help him or not, I figured he wouldn't hold a grudge for so long. I guess I was very wrong, especially after he doesn't help you twice.

    kenny didn't even save kat, that was me. i don't know where duck was during that time but considering i killed both brothers; you'd think kenny would be kissing my ass.

    you're trying to justify TTG's poor writing. i get they wanted to make kennys character out to be a "what have you done for me lately" type of guy. just saying ALL of his loyalty should not be based on one decision. they should have atleast added a 3 point system, and went based on how many times we've agreed or disagreed. they should have made kenny irrational, loyal, or middle ground.
  • edited October 2012
    Why can't one decision be the deciding factor? It's very true to life for one thing. There are people who are very much all or nothing regarding relationships.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    kenny didn't even save kat, that was me. i don't know where duck was during that time but considering i killed both brothers; you'd think kenny would be kissing my ass.

    you're trying to justify TTG's poor writing. i get they wanted to make kennys character out to be a "what have you done for me lately" type of guy. just saying ALL of his loyalty should not be based on one decision. they should have atleast added a 3 point system, and went based on how many times we've agreed or disagreed. they should have made kenny irrational, loyal, or middle ground.

    He didn't save Kat because apparently he went for Duck first. And he didn't even know what was happening inside the house. It's safe to say he thought about going through the backdoor (which is where Andy and Duck were), while Lee thought about the front door first. And he does try to save Duck, he even gets shot.
    And yeah, I'm justifying it because to me it makes perfect sense. I completely disagree with it being poor writing. And about Kenny's personality, the first thing you see is that there isn't a middle ground... for instance, when you try to reason with Larry, Kenny sees it as going against him. Thought that was pretty obvious. To Kenny, you're either with him, or against him.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    it's not about kenny, it's TTG. they made the larry decision way too important. i could understand if he held a grudge about me trying to kick duck out, or not feeding his boy, but not agreeing with him to kill larry? pfft.

    Not really. You have to side with him in EVERYTHING. He's a selfish character.
  • edited October 2012
    Not really. You have to side with him in EVERYTHING. He's a selfish character.

    False. I refused to steal the food from the car in Episode 2 and shot the girl in Episode 3. By shooting the girl, I put him directly in danger and he STILL came back to save me from the door. I pretty much assaulted him through everything up until I talked him down on the train, and even kept saying how we needed to take care of Duck, and even through all that he STILL gave me the "You're my friend, I have your back no matter what" speech at the end of 4. It's just the really big things you ahve to side with him on apparently, and I think he was right on everything but killing Ben.
  • edited October 2012
    I think you are being irrational here. I too didn't help kill Larry. That's not the deciding factor. Kenny still said I always had his back when it mattered and comes freely. There are for SURE several other occasions where you disagreed with him. I disagreed with him like 3 or 4 times but still he comes with me. And yes even tho I refused to kill Larry.
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