I think that Dr Logan was the dominant force in this situation, Molly wouldn't of gone up to him asking for sex in trade for insulin, she probably asked him but it was always down to Logan if he decided to give her the insulin and because he probably realised that Molly was desperate he gave her the terms of sex. She really needed the medication for her sister so she accepted, why wouldn't she? She obviously didn't want to, but she did because she had to, if she had wanted to she would of said thanks or something.
But Molly has every right to stab up Logan like she did because he had sex with her and then called off the deal, he was scared because Oberson was realising the loss of the medication but he is the only doctor by the looks of things and they wouldn't of thrown him out or shot him. But to be honest what purpose does medication or a doctor serve when only the fittest are allowed to stay in Crawford? Nothing at all which is why Logan could of just given her the insulin.
And if Oberson realised that all the insulin was gone, why didn't he just say it was out of date, because all medication has a sell by date and he could of just said he threw it away.
It's truly twisted that this subject is even being debated.
I know lol but it should be the debate on if Logan made the proposition or if Molly did etc and stuff like that, not wether rape is legal or not XD.
BTW people who keep saying its rape, it's not Molly gave her compliance, it's not like Doctor Logan pushed her onto the bed and had sex with her, is it?
Sexual Exploitation: The participation by a person in prostitution, sexual servitude, or the production of pornographic or obscene materials as a result of being subjected to a threat, deception, coercion, abduction, force, abuse of authority, debt bondage, or fraud.
It's truly twisted that this subject is even being debated.
What is twisted about it, it is a purely logical discussion. V said it was rape (or at least made mention that it could possibly be so), Red said it was not. I agree with Red, this wasn't rape but as I said before and as you restated with your last post, it was morally wrong since he sexually exploited her.
As a doctor he is supposedly sworn to save people as often as he can, by selling medicine for sex he was wrong. I think the bigger debate here is whether or not it was rape, which it clearly was not.
How? Rape is when someone has sex with you against your will. Molly didn't have to have sex with Logan. I know she did if she wanted to get the medication for her sister, but she wasn't pushed down on the bed and forcefully had sex with her did he? He probably made that offer for her and she gave her compliance.
Seriously?? So consent to a sex act is rape? Negative.....there are reasons words have meanings, look up rape and exploitation, two separate definitions.
I stand behind the fact it was immoral, but rape it was not. So with your thinking then, if I was blackmailed into committing murder, then I didn't commit murder? The choice is always yours, take away the choice and then we could say rape or in the last case, not murder.
Seriously?? So consent to a sex act is rape? Negative.....there are reasons words have meanings, look up rape and exploitation, two separate definitions.
I stand behind the fact it was immoral, but rape it was not. So with your thinking then, if I was blackmailed into committing murder, then I didn't commit murder? The choice is always yours, take away the choice and then we could say rape or in the last case, not murder.
Exactly my point, thank you! Finally someone who agrees with me lol
TWD, I think a bunch of us understand the fundamentals of rape vs. exploitation, some just are trying to apply what is morally correct/incorrect to these terms. It can't be done, both are wrong but rape is actually more wrong than using someone as the doctor did (as you know and understand too).
If you think they are both the same, look a rape victim in the eye and tell them that their being forced into a sex act against their will is the same as someone who allows themselves to be used for whatever reason.
Again, both are morally wrong at the core but there are differences people, you can't wrap it all up in the same cloth.
***TWD I wasn't targeting you with my response, I believe we both agree here***
TWD, I think a bunch of us understand the fundamentals of rape vs. exploitation, some just are trying to apply what is morally correct/incorrect to these terms. It can't be done, both are wrong but rape is actually more wrong than using someone as the doctor did (as you know and understand too).
If you think they are both the same, look a rape victim in the eye and tell them that their being forced into a sex act against their will is the same as someone who allows themselves to be used for whatever reason.
Again, both are morally wrong at the core but there are differences people, you can't wrap it all up in the same cloth.
***TWD I wasn't targeting you with my response, I believe we both agree here***
using that logic you should look a victim (that didn't fight but was still forced to have sex) in the eye and tell them that it wasn't rape
TWD, I think a bunch of us understand the fundamentals of rape vs. exploitation, some just are trying to apply what is morally correct/incorrect to these terms. It can't be done, both are wrong but rape is actually more wrong than using someone as the doctor did (as you know and understand too).
If you think they are both the same, look a rape victim in the eye and tell them that their being forced into a sex act against their will is the same as someone who allows themselves to be used for whatever reason.
Again, both are morally wrong at the core but there are differences people, you can't wrap it all up in the same cloth.
***TWD I wasn't targeting you with my response, I believe we both agree here***
Yeah, I think people need to realise that it isn't the same thing, she gave her consent when she didn't have to, I realise that she had to, to save her sister but still taking her sister out of the picture, she didn't have to no matter what people say, she didn't have to, Logan didn't push her onto the bed and rape her, she agreed.
using that logic you should look a victim (that didn't fight but was still forced to have sex) in the eye and tell them that it wasn't rape
I fundamentally find a flaw in your argument here. If the person is "forced" that means there is no option but to do it. If you have a choice, then it is not force....either way it seems we disagree here so lets just let it go.
Again I will say it is immoral to do what he did, I don't justify what the doc did. However the big difference in the terms "rape" and "exploitation" are huge.
I fundamentally find a flaw in your argument here. If the person is "forced" that means there is no option but to do it. If you have a choice, then it is not force....either way it seems we disagree here so lets just let it go.
Again I will say it is immoral to do what he did, I don't justify what the doc did. However the big difference in the terms "rape" and "exploitation" are huge.
She didn't have to? Because letting her sister go without the medicine that she needs was really a reasonable option for her? Holy crap, guys, you have a twistedly specific definition of the word "force".
Put it this way...if the guy put a gun to her sister's head and said, "have sex with me or I'll blow her brains out" are you really going to say that's not force?
She didn't have to? Because letting her sister go without the medicine that she needs was really a reasonable option for her? Holy crap, guys, you have a twistedly specific definition of the word "force".
There is nothing "twisted" about it....the definitions of words mean things. I have not said what he did wasn't wrong, I'd kill him for what he did since he was a doctor and under obligation to help people.
Rape is the absence of consent, taken against your will. Being used for sex to get something (money/food/medicine) is not rape, period. It is still wrong, but I don't think it is the same.
She could have done other things like try and steal it, barter something else or kill him and take it. The choice she made was "her" choice, she had options, she chose to sleep with the doc to get her sister medicine.
Rape is the absence of consent, taken against your will. Being used for sex to get something (money/food/medicine) is not rape, period. It is still wrong, but I don't think it is the same.
Giving in to blackmail is not the same thing as consent. There's a reason blackmail by itself is a crime.
Put it this way...if the guy put a gun to her sister's head and said, "have sex with me or I'll blow her brains out" are you really going to say that's not force?
Ok you added this after I posted so missed this the first time. According to the definition of rape then this situation you stated would be rape. Forcing sex through duress by an immediate killing of someone you care for would be rape.
However in the story, her making a deal to screw the doc for meds is her choice, she could find other ways to deal with this situation. Having a loaded gun to someones head is way different than saying I won't give you meds, her sis would not have died immediately without the meds, sure in a few days or weeks but not immediately. Two completely different examples.
Ok you added this after I posted so missed this the first time. According to the definition of rape then this situation you stated would be rape. Forcing sex through duress by an immediate killing of someone you care for would be rape.
However in the story, her making a deal to screw the doc for meds is her choice, she could find other ways to deal with this situation. Having a loaded gun to someones head is way different than saying I won't give you meds, her sis would not have died immediately without the meds, sure in a few days or weeks but not immediately. Two completely different examples.
what about if your family was injected with poison that will kill them in a few days unless i have sex with you, then i will give you the antidote (you can't steal the antidote and it's hidden so you can't kill me for it) what would you do? and if you went for the antidote would that count as being forced to you?
I'm not saying blackmail is good but it is NOT the same as rape or murder. There is also a reason it's called "blackmail" and not rape.
The reason it's called "blackmail" instead of "rape" is because blackmail is a general term and is usually used to get money. When it's used for sex it's called rape.
Blackmail is a form of duress. Sex through duress or coercion is rape. Sex through blackmail is rape. You wanted to be clear about the use of words, I'm just going by legal definitions here.
what about if your family was injected with poison that will kill them in a few days unless i have sex with you, then i will give you the antidote (you can't steal the antidote and it's hidden so you can't kill me for it) what would you do? and if you went for the antidote would that count as being forced to you?
I'd straight up kill (or try at least) you because my reasoning says if you could do it once you'd do it again or something like it. With luck I'd find the antidote, if not I rid the world of a murderer and morally corrupt individual.
Yes we can dispute the term "duress" in this case, but the choice for her was not an immediate threat. She could have pursued alternate methods for her sister like I said before, stealing it herself, persuading the doc to just give it to her, or leaving the camp. It is not like her sister was going to die within seconds. That is why I don't consider that situation rape, blackmail yes, but not rape.
I'd straight up kill (or try at least) you because my reasoning says if you could do it once you'd do it again or something like it. With luck I'd find the antidote, if not I rid the world of a murderer and morally corrupt individual.
Yes we can dispute the term "duress" in this case, but the choice for her was not an immediate threat. She could have pursued alternate methods for her sister like I said before, stealing it herself, persuading the doc to just give it to her, or leaving the camp. It is not like her sister was going to die within seconds. That is why I don't consider that situation rape, blackmail yes, but not rape.
do you have a family? because you seem to have forgotten the biggest reason why you wouldn't kill me
Yes we can dispute the term "duress" in this case, but the choice for her was not an immediate threat. She could have pursued alternate methods for her sister like I said before, stealing it herself, persuading the doc to just give it to her, or leaving the camp.
You're only assuming she didn't try all of those options. Again, we're only seeing the very end of the situation, there's no reason to think she didn't try everything she could beforehand. After all, once the doctor refused to give any more medicine her sister did die. If there was any other option at all, I'm sure Molly would have found it.
do you have a family? because you seem to have forgotten the biggest reason why you wouldn't kill me
No I have no family, I just spontaneously appeared in life. No I didn't forget the biggest reason, hence my explanation in my first post. I would not allow you to live if I could stop you so you could never do the same to someone else.
Yes we can assume that she tried it but we do not know therefore I am not trying to argue that it is ok what happened, I just don't agree that it was rape in this situation is all. Maybe Molly didn't look for another way, maybe she caved in right away? We will never know....
It was a bad situation, just like the whole of Crawford, he got what he deserved in the end.
No I have no family, I just spontaneously appeared in life. No I didn't forget the biggest reason, hence my explanation in my first post. I would not allow you to live if I could stop you so you could never do the same to someone else.
and let your family die is what you are forgetting
The reason it's called "blackmail" instead of "rape" is because blackmail is a general term and is usually used to get money. When it's used for sex it's called rape.
Blackmail is a form of duress. Sex through duress or coercion is rape. Sex through blackmail is rape. You wanted to be clear about the use of words, I'm just going by legal definitions here.
This is spiraling out of control here, blackmail is blackmail, rape is rape. This is not debatable.
"Blackmail" is the use of threats or coercion to make you do something that will not physically harm you (generally for money or keeping your mouth shut) but will embarrass or humiliate you. "Rape" is the act of forcing someone to have sex with you (as I'm sure you know) without regard to anything or your feelings.
If we want to use the idea that someone has a gun to your sister/brother/friends head and if you don't do what he/she says then yes, it is rape. Again I stand by my definition of rape (equals no option other to to comply) and blackmail (an option to do one thing or the other).
blackmail [ˈblækˌmeɪl]
n
1. (Law) the act of attempting to obtain money by intimidation, as by threats to disclose discreditable information
2. the exertion of pressure or threats, esp unfairly, in an attempt to influence someone's actions
vb (tr)
1. (Law) to exact or attempt to exact (money or anything of value) from (a person) by threats or intimidation; extort
2. to attempt to influence the actions of (a person), esp by unfair pressure or threats
and let your family die is what you are forgetting
I am not forgetting that, again please re-read my original and second post. To stop a killer like the one your suggested I would do what I said to you in that situation, or try. Not everyone reacts the same as you would.
Yes I love my family and children (well they are in their 20's now, but are still my children) but to allow a sick individual like the one you posed to live on and do it to others who may not be able to resist you...I couldn't let it happen.
I would not assume to be alive after your rape of me nor would I believe you would save my family with your antidote so my option is crystal clear. Let's agree to disagree here, we fundamentally have different opinions on how we would handle this situation for our own reasons.
I am not forgetting that, again please re-read my original and second post. To stop a killer like the one your suggested I would do what I said to you in that situation, or try. Not everyone reacts the same as you would.
Yes I love my family and children (well they are in their 20's now, but are still my children) but to allow a sick individual like the one you posed to live on and do it to others who may not be able to resist you...I couldn't let it happen.
I would not assume to be alive after your rape of me nor would I believe you would save my family with your antidote so my option is crystal clear. Let's agree to disagree here, we fundamentally have different opinions on how we would handle this situation for our own reasons.
i don't see how justice or pride is more important than family and i think you are really just avoiding the fact that the issue was either dead family or unwanted sex, and that killing the guy or getting the medicine any other way was not an option
It is not justice or pride, it is simply stopping a monster from doing the same act again to another family or some innocent child.
How do you know getting the medicine any other way was NOT an option? You can berate me all you want to but it will not change the fact if "you" or some other "sicko" did what you said to my family and tried to make me have sex against my will in a ZA that I wouldn't end their life immediately. That choice doesn't make me any worse than the poor sap that lets it happen, only to be double crossed and no cure available or given to the poisoned family does it?
I'm done with this thread....this is going nowhere and making you and I argue over nothing pertinent but our own opinions on how we would react to these situations.
It is not justice or pride, it is simply stopping a monster from doing the same act again to another family or some innocent child.
How do you know getting the medicine any other way was NOT an option? You can berate me all you want to but it will not change the fact if "you" or some other "sicko" did what you said to my family and tried to make me have sex against my will in a ZA that I wouldn't end their life immediately. That choice doesn't make me any worse than the poor sap that lets it happen, only to be double crossed and no cure available or given to the poisoned family does it?
I'm done with this thread....this is going nowhere and making you and I argue over nothing pertinent but our own opinions on how we would react to these situations.
the poison was a quite obvious equivalent of diabetes and the antidote was insuline (i just made an example so it would work with everyone so don't get carried away with my story it was supposed to be a direct equivalent not its own thing) the safe was secure and there would have been guards, insulin would be rare and leaving would just be the same as killing your sister because of lack of insulin and zombies
the poison was a quite obvious equivalent of diabetes and the antidote was insuline (i just made an example so it would work with everyone so don't get carried away with my story it was supposed to be a direct equivalent not its own thing) the safe was secure and there would have been guards, insulin would be rare and leaving would just be the same as killing your sister because of lack of insulin and zombies
Ok because you had to state "obviously" I will reply one last time.
No, pumping my family full of poison with you having the antidote in exchange for sex or the immediate death of my family is not the same as having diabetes. I'm sure even more insulin could have been found in downtown Atlanta if she went and looked.
We don't know if there would have been guards, it is presumable that only the doc and maybe the governor of Crawford only had the combo, figuring it was safe and that there was no need to guard the safe against their own people. There are other possibilities, if she was having a heart attack and the doc said "screw me or she dies" I would agree it was rape, we do not know the timeline on how sick the sister was.
I again stand behind the fact it is wrong on many levels, but just disagree with how you are classifying what happened. I hate the doc for what he did, but will not classify this as you do...that is our difference. We can go back and forth for days but will not agree, I respect your opinion but disagree, much like you do with mine.
blackmail [ˈblækˌmeɪl]
n
1. (Law) the act of attempting to obtain money by intimidation, as by threats to disclose discreditable information
2. the exertion of pressure or threats, esp unfairly, in an attempt to influence someone's actions
vb (tr)
1. (Law) to exact or attempt to exact (money or anything of value) from (a person) by threats or intimidation; extort
2. to attempt to influence the actions of (a person), esp by unfair pressure or threats
rape [reyp]
n
1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
duress [doo-res, dyoo-, door-is, dyoor-]
n
1. compulsion by threat or force; coercion; constraint.
rape [reyp]
n
1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
duress [doo-res, dyoo-, door-is, dyoor-]
n
1. compulsion by threat or force; coercion; constraint.
Oh my....this continues.....
Who asked the doctor for meds? Who willingly decided to give up her body for meds? If the doctor came to her and said he would not treat her sister than fine, we could come to terms here....but if Molly came to him it is what it is. She knew her sister had diabetes and was in a town that did not support sick people. Let's be real here, Molly knew what she was doing and knew it was against the laws set in Crawford.
Stop trying to say this was forced on her or her only option, she had options, she choose to sell her body for meds for her sister.
Ok because you had to state "obviously" I will reply one last time.
No, pumping my family full of poison with you having the antidote in exchange for sex or the immediate death of my family is not the same as having diabetes. I'm sure even more insulin could have been found in downtown Atlanta if she went and looked.
We don't know if there would have been guards, it is presumable that only the doc and maybe the governor of Crawford only had the combo, figuring it was safe and that there was no need to guard the safe against their own people. There are other possibilities, if she was having a heart attack and the doc said "screw me or she dies" I would agree it was rape, we do not know the timeline on how sick the sister was.
I again stand behind the fact it is wrong on many levels, but just disagree with how you are classifying what happened. I hate the doc for what he did, but will not classify this as you do...that is our difference. We can go back and forth for days but will not agree, I respect your opinion but disagree, much like you do with mine.
i didn't say i had poisoned your family, anyway maybe i should have just said "what if you were molly" that probably would have been better, but the game was already sort of saying that anyway,
we know her sister died because she didn't get insulin so we know it was very important to her life so the timeline is clear,
so you can either believe molly is an idiot and having sex with the doc was her first thought, or that she was not an idiot and it was her only option.
maybe there weren't guards but the safe is good on it's own to stop her ( adventure game magic only works when you play the game, so no hidden codes to conveniently find) this meant her only options were sex with the doc or dead sister.
anyway nice debate and i would never actually want to do any of the things i put in my example and the family question was more because i just couldn't understand your viewpoint and that maybe my example was like someone saying "what if someone scratched up your Ferrari" to me because i don't know what owning a Ferrari is like and i just can't imagine caring that much about it (not really a Ferrari fan)
Yes sir, I still think it was morally wrong by the doctor, we don't disagree there. I just think Molly had other options and chose what she thought was the easiest way to help her sister, I don't think she was "forced" into the decision, I think that is where we differ on our opinions.
Good debate though.....the doc is dead and we are all happy for that right?
anyway nice debate and i would never actually want to do any of the things i put in my example and the family question was more because i just couldn't understand your viewpoint and that maybe my example was like someone saying "what if someone scratched up your Ferrari" to me because i don't know what owning a Ferrari is like and i just can't imagine caring that much about it (not really a Ferrari fan)
I know you weren't personally jabbing or saying you would do those things, I understood it as an example and you trying to get your point across.
I also never owned a Ferrari but did drive two of them!! Fun times....
Comments
But Molly has every right to stab up Logan like she did because he had sex with her and then called off the deal, he was scared because Oberson was realising the loss of the medication but he is the only doctor by the looks of things and they wouldn't of thrown him out or shot him. But to be honest what purpose does medication or a doctor serve when only the fittest are allowed to stay in Crawford? Nothing at all which is why Logan could of just given her the insulin.
And if Oberson realised that all the insulin was gone, why didn't he just say it was out of date, because all medication has a sell by date and he could of just said he threw it away.
I know lol but it should be the debate on if Logan made the proposition or if Molly did etc and stuff like that, not wether rape is legal or not XD.
BTW people who keep saying its rape, it's not Molly gave her compliance, it's not like Doctor Logan pushed her onto the bed and had sex with her, is it?
What is twisted about it, it is a purely logical discussion. V said it was rape (or at least made mention that it could possibly be so), Red said it was not. I agree with Red, this wasn't rape but as I said before and as you restated with your last post, it was morally wrong since he sexually exploited her.
As a doctor he is supposedly sworn to save people as often as he can, by selling medicine for sex he was wrong. I think the bigger debate here is whether or not it was rape, which it clearly was not.
Clearly? Sex through blackmail is still rape.
How? Rape is when someone has sex with you against your will. Molly didn't have to have sex with Logan. I know she did if she wanted to get the medication for her sister, but she wasn't pushed down on the bed and forcefully had sex with her did he? He probably made that offer for her and she gave her compliance.
Seriously?? So consent to a sex act is rape? Negative.....there are reasons words have meanings, look up rape and exploitation, two separate definitions.
I stand behind the fact it was immoral, but rape it was not. So with your thinking then, if I was blackmailed into committing murder, then I didn't commit murder? The choice is always yours, take away the choice and then we could say rape or in the last case, not murder.
Exactly my point, thank you! Finally someone who agrees with me lol
If you think they are both the same, look a rape victim in the eye and tell them that their being forced into a sex act against their will is the same as someone who allows themselves to be used for whatever reason.
Again, both are morally wrong at the core but there are differences people, you can't wrap it all up in the same cloth.
***TWD I wasn't targeting you with my response, I believe we both agree here***
using that logic you should look a victim (that didn't fight but was still forced to have sex) in the eye and tell them that it wasn't rape
Yeah, I think people need to realise that it isn't the same thing, she gave her consent when she didn't have to, I realise that she had to, to save her sister but still taking her sister out of the picture, she didn't have to no matter what people say, she didn't have to, Logan didn't push her onto the bed and rape her, she agreed.
I fundamentally find a flaw in your argument here. If the person is "forced" that means there is no option but to do it. If you have a choice, then it is not force....either way it seems we disagree here so lets just let it go.
Again I will say it is immoral to do what he did, I don't justify what the doc did. However the big difference in the terms "rape" and "exploitation" are huge.
your sister dies or ........ is not a choice
Put it this way...if the guy put a gun to her sister's head and said, "have sex with me or I'll blow her brains out" are you really going to say that's not force?
There is nothing "twisted" about it....the definitions of words mean things. I have not said what he did wasn't wrong, I'd kill him for what he did since he was a doctor and under obligation to help people.
Rape is the absence of consent, taken against your will. Being used for sex to get something (money/food/medicine) is not rape, period. It is still wrong, but I don't think it is the same.
She could have done other things like try and steal it, barter something else or kill him and take it. The choice she made was "her" choice, she had options, she chose to sleep with the doc to get her sister medicine.
Giving in to blackmail is not the same thing as consent. There's a reason blackmail by itself is a crime.
Ok you added this after I posted so missed this the first time. According to the definition of rape then this situation you stated would be rape. Forcing sex through duress by an immediate killing of someone you care for would be rape.
However in the story, her making a deal to screw the doc for meds is her choice, she could find other ways to deal with this situation. Having a loaded gun to someones head is way different than saying I won't give you meds, her sis would not have died immediately without the meds, sure in a few days or weeks but not immediately. Two completely different examples.
I'm not saying blackmail is good but it is NOT the same as rape or murder. There is also a reason it's called "blackmail" and not rape.
what about if your family was injected with poison that will kill them in a few days unless i have sex with you, then i will give you the antidote (you can't steal the antidote and it's hidden so you can't kill me for it) what would you do? and if you went for the antidote would that count as being forced to you?
The reason it's called "blackmail" instead of "rape" is because blackmail is a general term and is usually used to get money. When it's used for sex it's called rape.
Blackmail is a form of duress. Sex through duress or coercion is rape. Sex through blackmail is rape. You wanted to be clear about the use of words, I'm just going by legal definitions here.
I'd straight up kill (or try at least) you because my reasoning says if you could do it once you'd do it again or something like it. With luck I'd find the antidote, if not I rid the world of a murderer and morally corrupt individual.
@blackcanvas
Yes we can dispute the term "duress" in this case, but the choice for her was not an immediate threat. She could have pursued alternate methods for her sister like I said before, stealing it herself, persuading the doc to just give it to her, or leaving the camp. It is not like her sister was going to die within seconds. That is why I don't consider that situation rape, blackmail yes, but not rape.
do you have a family? because you seem to have forgotten the biggest reason why you wouldn't kill me
You're only assuming she didn't try all of those options. Again, we're only seeing the very end of the situation, there's no reason to think she didn't try everything she could beforehand. After all, once the doctor refused to give any more medicine her sister did die. If there was any other option at all, I'm sure Molly would have found it.
No I have no family, I just spontaneously appeared in life. No I didn't forget the biggest reason, hence my explanation in my first post. I would not allow you to live if I could stop you so you could never do the same to someone else.
@blankcanvas
Yes we can assume that she tried it but we do not know therefore I am not trying to argue that it is ok what happened, I just don't agree that it was rape in this situation is all. Maybe Molly didn't look for another way, maybe she caved in right away? We will never know....
It was a bad situation, just like the whole of Crawford, he got what he deserved in the end.
and let your family die is what you are forgetting
This is spiraling out of control here, blackmail is blackmail, rape is rape. This is not debatable.
"Blackmail" is the use of threats or coercion to make you do something that will not physically harm you (generally for money or keeping your mouth shut) but will embarrass or humiliate you. "Rape" is the act of forcing someone to have sex with you (as I'm sure you know) without regard to anything or your feelings.
If we want to use the idea that someone has a gun to your sister/brother/friends head and if you don't do what he/she says then yes, it is rape. Again I stand by my definition of rape (equals no option other to to comply) and blackmail (an option to do one thing or the other).
blackmail [ˈblækˌmeɪl]
n
1. (Law) the act of attempting to obtain money by intimidation, as by threats to disclose discreditable information
2. the exertion of pressure or threats, esp unfairly, in an attempt to influence someone's actions
vb (tr)
1. (Law) to exact or attempt to exact (money or anything of value) from (a person) by threats or intimidation; extort
2. to attempt to influence the actions of (a person), esp by unfair pressure or threats
I am not forgetting that, again please re-read my original and second post. To stop a killer like the one your suggested I would do what I said to you in that situation, or try. Not everyone reacts the same as you would.
Yes I love my family and children (well they are in their 20's now, but are still my children) but to allow a sick individual like the one you posed to live on and do it to others who may not be able to resist you...I couldn't let it happen.
I would not assume to be alive after your rape of me nor would I believe you would save my family with your antidote so my option is crystal clear. Let's agree to disagree here, we fundamentally have different opinions on how we would handle this situation for our own reasons.
i don't see how justice or pride is more important than family and i think you are really just avoiding the fact that the issue was either dead family or unwanted sex, and that killing the guy or getting the medicine any other way was not an option
How do you know getting the medicine any other way was NOT an option? You can berate me all you want to but it will not change the fact if "you" or some other "sicko" did what you said to my family and tried to make me have sex against my will in a ZA that I wouldn't end their life immediately. That choice doesn't make me any worse than the poor sap that lets it happen, only to be double crossed and no cure available or given to the poisoned family does it?
I'm done with this thread....this is going nowhere and making you and I argue over nothing pertinent but our own opinions on how we would react to these situations.
the poison was a quite obvious equivalent of diabetes and the antidote was insuline (i just made an example so it would work with everyone so don't get carried away with my story it was supposed to be a direct equivalent not its own thing) the safe was secure and there would have been guards, insulin would be rare and leaving would just be the same as killing your sister because of lack of insulin and zombies
Ok because you had to state "obviously" I will reply one last time.
No, pumping my family full of poison with you having the antidote in exchange for sex or the immediate death of my family is not the same as having diabetes. I'm sure even more insulin could have been found in downtown Atlanta if she went and looked.
We don't know if there would have been guards, it is presumable that only the doc and maybe the governor of Crawford only had the combo, figuring it was safe and that there was no need to guard the safe against their own people. There are other possibilities, if she was having a heart attack and the doc said "screw me or she dies" I would agree it was rape, we do not know the timeline on how sick the sister was.
I again stand behind the fact it is wrong on many levels, but just disagree with how you are classifying what happened. I hate the doc for what he did, but will not classify this as you do...that is our difference. We can go back and forth for days but will not agree, I respect your opinion but disagree, much like you do with mine.
rape [reyp]
n
1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
duress [doo-res, dyoo-, door-is, dyoor-]
n
1. compulsion by threat or force; coercion; constraint.
Oh my....this continues.....
Who asked the doctor for meds? Who willingly decided to give up her body for meds? If the doctor came to her and said he would not treat her sister than fine, we could come to terms here....but if Molly came to him it is what it is. She knew her sister had diabetes and was in a town that did not support sick people. Let's be real here, Molly knew what she was doing and knew it was against the laws set in Crawford.
Stop trying to say this was forced on her or her only option, she had options, she choose to sell her body for meds for her sister.
i didn't say i had poisoned your family, anyway maybe i should have just said "what if you were molly" that probably would have been better, but the game was already sort of saying that anyway,
we know her sister died because she didn't get insulin so we know it was very important to her life so the timeline is clear,
so you can either believe molly is an idiot and having sex with the doc was her first thought, or that she was not an idiot and it was her only option.
maybe there weren't guards but the safe is good on it's own to stop her ( adventure game magic only works when you play the game, so no hidden codes to conveniently find) this meant her only options were sex with the doc or dead sister.
anyway nice debate and i would never actually want to do any of the things i put in my example and the family question was more because i just couldn't understand your viewpoint and that maybe my example was like someone saying "what if someone scratched up your Ferrari" to me because i don't know what owning a Ferrari is like and i just can't imagine caring that much about it (not really a Ferrari fan)
Good debate though.....the doc is dead and we are all happy for that right?
I know you weren't personally jabbing or saying you would do those things, I understood it as an example and you trying to get your point across.
I also never owned a Ferrari but did drive two of them!! Fun times....
I'm glad, have a virtual high five/handshake