The Kickstarter is finally launched (still has to be activated by KS though) for Lori and Corey Cole's new game "Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption. The couple that brought us the "Quest for Glory"-series is back!
Hero-U plays like a classic RPG, with turn-based tactical combat and exploration of the environment on top-down, 2D maps.
Felt I should emphasize this, since it's rather buried beneath the tier descriptions.
My question - what the heck does that mean? Will it play like classic Final Fantasy games? Baldur's Gate? What? These guys are amazing at saying a whole bunch and at the same time saying nothing. They talk about it being "a true RPG", with "tactical combat that is much more than 'hack and slash'". But that's all they have - talk. No real screenshots, no examples of how it'll control or feel... I've never seen a Kickstarter project with so much text but so little concrete information.
Felt I should emphasize this, since it's rather buried beneath the tier descriptions.
My question - what the heck does that mean? Will it play like classic Final Fantasy games? Baldur's Gate? What? These guys are amazing at saying a whole bunch and at the same time saying nothing. They talk about it being "a true RPG", with "tactical combat that is much more than 'hack and slash'". But that's all they have - talk. No real screenshots, no examples of how it'll control or feel... I've never seen a Kickstarter project with so much text but so little concrete information.
You make good points, and we will be clarifying how combat works, and re-arranging content around. Thanks for your feedback.
Here's a bit more details on combat:
Right now it's a solo hero, with multi-panel movement (one of the issues with a Rogue-like is that the one movement per turn makes monsters too predictable.)
For the moment, your most important characters options are choosing the right poisons and traps to use. For example, you might use a slow poison on a large Minotaur, and then lure out the surrounding minions to kill one by one. Maybe on the Hard setting you're not strong enough to kill the Minotaur by yourself, so you set up a spring trap to launch it into a pit. For simpler battles, it might just be using a burning poison to kill a set of octopus-like monsters quickly. For basic combat a lot of it will be figuring out the monster's weaknesses, and then choosing positioning to pick them off without taking too much damage.
It's not just the combat I'd like more information on - it's everything. You don't explain what the game will look like, what it'll play like - hell, you don't even say if it's a PC game or not! The only way I knew is by looking at which category the Kickstarter project is in! You can't just throw around your premise and expect people to back it if you're not going to properly tell us what you're making.
Here's the very first sentence from Project Eternity's Kickstarter page:
Project Eternity is an isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world developed by Obsidian Entertainment.
Boosh. The entire project summed up neatly and concisely in one clear sentence. That's the sort of thing you need - a clear explanation of what exactly your project is. At the moment you have a huge amount of text, but no definitive 'this is what the game will be like'.
You'll attract far more people if you cut down on the vast amount of text you have on your page (seriously, it's a staggeringly huge amount to sift through) and just provide a basic overview of what the game actually will be. You can still have your text, just add it in updates. But you need to remember that people need solid information, and you don't really give any.
Wow, that sounded really negative. And repetitive. Sorry 'bout that.
I really like the concept background art... but then THIS image leaves me massively underwhelmed.. I hate to be a Debby Downer.. but this looks like a really cheap iOS shovelware game.... That makes me sad.
I really like the concept background art... but then THIS image leaves me massively underwhelmed.. I hate to be a Debby Downer.. but this looks like a really cheap iOS shovelware game.... That makes me sad.
"Most of you understand that games are developed using "placeholder art", but I am adding this since we've seen some complaints about the "test dungeon" art in the video. In previous games, we sometimes represented a character with a grey box or a red "X". The "game images" you see in this Kickstarter project are all placeholders. Some of them are really beautiful placeholders, but they may or may not be representative of final game art.
In particular, the 2D top-down image included in the video is a concept piece. That is the point of view you will have in the game, but the actual image is a placeholder. The actual Hero-U game will give you the freedom of movement and tactical actions that the top down view allows, but it will be carefully crafted to look Really Nice in the game. As it is, our prototype is way nicer than boxes and X's. :-)"
Not sure how I feel about this project despite that it the game is a sequel of sorts to the QFG series; it is obvious this game takes place in the same universe as the one in QFG - the creators are trying to give the game that old "Sierra" look in the game, they seem obsessed in making games about heroes going to Hero school, and they hired people from the AGI community who worked on the QFG2 remake (The art director who did those Disney-style promotional art for the QFG2 remake is also the art director for this new game.)
I love QFG, but having the game being more of a RPG game with a top down view might not convey the same feeling as the old Sierra QFG games.
I wonder what QFG references we will see in the game since I am sure the Coles can't use every references from their Sierra game (copyright and all.)
It's not just the combat I'd like more information on - it's everything. You don't explain what the game will look like, what it'll play like - hell, you don't even say if it's a PC game or not! The only way I knew is by looking at which category the Kickstarter project is in! You can't just throw around your premise and expect people to back it if you're not going to properly tell us what you're making.
Here's the very first sentence from Project Eternity's Kickstarter page:Boosh. The entire project summed up neatly and concisely in one clear sentence. That's the sort of thing you need - a clear explanation of what exactly your project is. At the moment you have a huge amount of text, but no definitive 'this is what the game will be like'.
You'll attract far more people if you cut down on the vast amount of text you have on your page (seriously, it's a staggeringly huge amount to sift through) and just provide a basic overview of what the game actually will be. You can still have your text, just add it in updates. But you need to remember that people need solid information, and you don't really give any.
Wow, that sounded really negative. And repetitive. Sorry 'bout that.
Project Eternity has the advantage there of being able to point at a game that's exactly like what they're making and boil out the juicy bits for a soundbite. 'Bam! It's Balder's gate, only in our own setting! Done!' The Coles are making something.. unique.. which makes it harder to pin down in a few sentences. Is this hurting them? Sure. Likely. Apparently reading is such a chore these days. :P But it's just the nature of putting together something that doesn't neatly fit into a little box. On the plus side for those of us who've pledged, Lori's commenting pretty regularly on the Kickstarter so there's loads of new info to be had and they've heard about your concerns and know its an issue, they'll likely be doing something (Updates, alter the main page, etc) to try and clear things up. I have faith in them, after all they're pioneers, they injected RPG Elements into a different genre long before everyone started doing it. I'm sure they can inject Adventure Elements into the RPG genre and do just as good a job with it and maybe that'll be the next thing people start putting into everything! Adventure Elements for all! Which can only be a good thing for Adventure Game lovers.
Please use sentences. Big blocks of text like that aren't nice.
It's nice to know Lori & Cori will be clearing things up a little. I have a bad feeling though that they'll end up with something like Shaker - plenty of information via updates, but the initial idea had so little concrete info people just didn't care and therefore didn't pledge. I know this has a lower goal, but I still have a niggling doubt the same thing'll happen here. I hope it doesn't, but...
This isn't a novel. It's an initial game overview. It's a marketing tool.
When you're trying to make your case for why your opinion, product, idea, etc. merits consideration, it's important to keep things clear and concise. Learning how to keep your target audience's attention is an important skill.
If the purpose of a Kickstarter page is to convince people why they should be interested in the product in question, it should be made plainly and simply what it is about said product that we would be interested in. If we have to read through walls of text to find the few tidbits interspersed throughout that we were really looking for... you know, some people aren't going to bother going to all the trouble.
Suffice it to say that just because someone says an article/post is tl;dr or without proper paragraph breaks, it doesn't make them lazy or a troll.
The Coles are making something.. unique.. which makes it harder to pin down in a few sentences.
Not really. The customer has pretty simple questions which only require pretty simple answers.
What general genre(s) does it fit into? What control scheme does it use? What camera perspective does it use?
Does it have combat elements? If so, is the combat turn-based or real-time? Do you switch to a different screen interface for combat or not?
Does your character have stats? If so, which ones can you increase over time and how?
What kind of inventory system does the game have, if any? Can you use inventory items to interact/combine with other inventory items?
Do you have weapons and armor? What types will there be and how many? Can you upgrade their stats? Do they degrade with use?
Can you interact with non-combat NPCs? If so, for what purpose? Will there be voice-acting?
These are a TON of questions, but again, they could be answered very briefly and simply in general terms without lots of text. If you want to elaborate on it, then you do so afterward.
It's as simple as a high-school English class. Give an introductory paragraph in which you have a thesis statement. Your thesis sums up the whole topic in one or two sentences. Then, you elaborate by giving the meat of your discussion, and at the end you give a brief conclusion.
Or, as my mom (who is an attorney) has said, "sum up what you're going to say, then say it, then briefly sum up what you said." I can't tell you how many game reviews I've read where I just read the first and last paragraphs because I didn't want to spend half an hour deciding whether I agreed with the reviewer or even found the game interesting.
Also, I did read it. All of it. I didn't really see anything concrete though. Re-reading it, here's the highlights.
Hero-U plays like a classic RPG, with turn-based tactical combat and exploration of the environment on top-down, 2D maps.
WHICH classic RPG? There's been loads! Baldur's Gate? Zelda? Might & Magic? Specifics, dammit! And this is under the section called "Details, Give Me Details". WHICH THEY DON'T. Instead, we get a few features that aren't explained in context. And a picture of a cat sitting in front of a monitor. Lovely.
As in a good film or novel – and unlike most games – Shawn will have the opportunity to change his attitude and outlook as the result of his experiences.
...what. Were they serious when they wrote this? Games are full of moral choices! Mass Effect, anyone?
There's only so much we can say about the game in this space.
This is the biggest laugh of them all. Given how much space they've already used, surely they could change some of it to actually say something rather than force us to wade through pages of interviews just to find out what the hell the game's going to be like? Honestly.
To be honest, I'd just like a step-by-step description of what the game (combat specifically) will look and play like. A comparison to other games would be a godsend in this regard.
When I say step-by-step, I mean it. Describe, in detail, what an actual battle would be like. Go through every step - your character rolls for initiative, he draws his sword, you move him two space to the left, you select the option to attack, there's a random number that when combined with your dexterity determines whether you hit the enemy him or not, the same thing happens with your strength to determine how much damage he takes, then the enemy does the same thing, etc.
Or they could just compare it to something else. For example - they could say it'll all take place from a top-down perspective on a grid-based system, not unsimilar to D&D gaming. Or they could say it plays out in a turn-based style like classic JRPGs.
Or, best of all, they could actually show us with a video. Yes the graphics would be placeholders, fine, but if we could get an idea of what it will be like, it'd be so much easier to know whether to back it or not.
After writing some detailed impressions of the kickstarter in the kickstarter thread, I recognized that you were talking about this elsewhere. :rolleyes:
Now I can't even merge this!! That's SOME advertisement for this kickstarter...
Well, I find the project interesting to a degree; still, as always, I will have to wait until 400,000 are reached and PayPal channels are opened. Yup, yup.
I must admit, I'm a bit tired of old school video game designers thinking that they can do an ancient type of game again and still have ample financial support with only so much as their names in a crowd funding campaign. Because, let's be honest, Hero-U certainly strikes me as an unimaginative and potentially immersion breaking name. The whole "school of heroes" thing is also done to death already. Not the best way to start a story.
Turn based sounds good and adventure elements sounds good; and, thank God, they have their hero named already. Fuck, we'll maybe even get a meaningful back story instead of a nameless face whose entire family was killed and whose past is nonexistent, but can be configured with eight different beards. Still, it's a thief. *sigh*
2D top down, well, UGH, I would have preferred the adventure backdrop approach that they're promising for "special scenes", but I see that the sandboxy puzzled dungeons are far, far less work.
And the top down dungeon art needs to be FAR, FAR better than the preliminary placeholders. So much in fact that in the following quote:
Some of them are really beautiful placeholders, but they may or may not be representative of final game art
,the idea that according to these words the placeholders MAY be representative of final game art makes me panic. Detail, texture, light and shadow, visible color schemes would just be the beginning of what's missing. I'm not sure they have done themselves a favor by publishing these pictures. It will make me research the core artists in a hurry to see if they can deliver.
But as for the details everyone seems to be craving about... errr, well, I'll try hard to not want more details. It's only been a few month since Tim S. told us abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING about his project, namely because he hadn't yet thought this far, and got more than three million dolllars. Or Jordan W., who scored almost two million without handing out more than a remote idea about what his game would be like. Compare this to the Shadowrun Online kickstarter campaign, they explained absolutely everything for their almost finished game in loooong videos narrated by Star Trek actors and almost didn't make it as a result.
But as for the details everyone seems to be craving about... errr, well, I'll try hard to not want more details. It's only been a few month since Tim S. told us abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING about his project, namely because he hadn't yet thought this far, and got more than three million dolllars. Or Jordan W., who scored almost two million without handing out more than a remote idea about what his game would be like.
That's what I thought too after reading this thread. And it may just be Darth Marsden users having spent too much money on Kickstarter already with not enough projects delivering a finished product.
One of the first updates also has disheartening information. As a "supporter testimonial", they're quoting a post from the adventuregamers forums which states things in a way that they feel they "couldn't have said it better themselves":
Also, for me, the major strengths of both the QFG franchise and the Hero-U “battle plans” are that the emphases are on plot and story immersion, and the Coles’ mantra, FUN, not HD graphics or pretty shiny things or what have you. (Incidentally, if people are worried about art, Eriq Chang has things in pretty good order. Google or Facebook search him and you’ll be a lot less concerned.)
Now, I really did my best, but the brunt of what I could find was a client list and half-naked pictures of the artist in bed (I kid you not). If someone could guide me towards some ambitious work demonstration, because whatever Spikey here found to be in "good order", I couldn't find it.
I think we need to remember the story focus and not get distracted with art. Let’s face it, that’s not the purpose of the project, as Corey said yesterday, buy the multi-million games like CoD if you want film-budget artwork.
I am sick of the idea that video gamers should "not get distracted with art". Video games are ALL about art in one way or another. If deplorable graphic art can be made up with excellent gameplay and story, I'm honestly the first to buy. These are art forms themselves for sure. Spikey is correct to assume that movies have excellent graphic artwork because they are multi million dollar productions, but he grossly exaggerates the matter in an attempt to silence the critics altogether.
No one expects high res, mega defined, ultra detailed, massively time consuming graphics here. Just a bit of effort, an acknowledgement of art more than art itself. A distinct style, thorough reference research, inexhaustible inventiveness and a bold approach to one's work are not particularly tied to the budget*. If the final game looks like every other fan made game (or worse: just like games looked 25 years ago), budgeting has gone awry; and I'm also afraid that in this case, there has been no "artist" on the team.
*missing from this spontaneous enumeration of the artist's virtues is 'inspiration'; I try to be careful with the word as one of my favorite artists, Shaun Tan mostly renounces it
Hey Mr. Chang did the promo Poster for the QfG2 Remake.
On the Art: It depends on the game. I like the clean design of P0rtal a lot mire than the a lot more detailed design of P0rtal 2.
But then again: if you go for 2D you might as well produce amazing art because nothing is really stopping you from that.
The Coles will be hosting a “Ask Me Anything” on Reddit today, October 31st at 3pm PDT/6pm EDT: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA
A great opportunity to ask away about the Quest for Glory series, Dr. Brain, Mixed up Fairy Tales, their time at Sierra, the School for Heroes site and of course their latest venture on Kickstarter: Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption.
Even after the Q&A, the kickstarter is not doing so well. It's behind schedule so to speak. However, late surges have occurred REAL often in game kickstarter history, so no need to panic yet.
Reaching it a bit late. I want in via PayPal, guys!
As for the art style - it looks sufficient now. Not more, but absolutely sufficient. As much as I despise every other kickstarter trying to conjure up an "old school" feeling, I think I really WANT a Final Fantasy-style RPG/ dungeon crawler again, with halfway high resolution and these elementary mechanics.
I've played the GameBoy Final Fantasy Legend/Saga games TO DEATH.
Reaching it a bit late. I want in via PayPal, guys!
I think they will not make it. When this whole thing started they would have gotten so much money but it seems the mindset of the kickstarter users changed.
What they need in the next 10 days is not 200,000$.
140,000 is probably enough for the late surge to take them over the top. Yup, backers are that mean.
Although Space Quest 3 was my first adventure game, I picked up a copy of Hero’s Quest later that year. Hero’s Quest was my first experience in RPGs and my definitive experience in fantasy. I will never forget the cover to that game.
I played the Quest for Glory games for several years and it was always my secret indulgence. I had some friends who played D&D, but I was always afraid to play because of my propagandized ignorance of the game. I was in my school library one day in 1994 when I noticed a paperback novel left on a table. The cover caught my attention. The red dragon in the background looked very similar to the cover of Hero’s Quest. I checked out Dragons of Autumn Twilight and the rest is history. I started reading fantasy novels like crazy, my friends noticed my interest in fantasy and invited me to play D&D, and I remain an avid fan of fantasy and RPG to this day. I even DM a 3.5 edition campaign of Dragonlance which you can read about on our wiki!
For me, Quest for Glory was a catalyst for fun, excitement, and socialization far beyond what the series offered in hours of playtime. I owe a lot to the Cole’s for their creative influence throughout the Quest for Glory series. This Kickstarter is my opportunity to repay the enjoyment they have provided me both monetarily and with zealous support!
Torchino Motorino
"What good is knowledge and wisdom if you can't use it?" -Erasmus
The way I see it is that a backer either respects the guys who invented QFG (western RPG/adventure hybrid) or is willing to trust them on reputation. Kickstarters generally gain and maintain momentum because of their original fan base. In this case the original fan base has diversified, as QFG adventure elements were integrated into mainstream RPGs - and so is less able to be made aware of the mother cry. Pretty much every guy into RPG I grew up with has heard of and played QFG - they even incorporated characters into their D&D games (which I rarely played). If they could be contacted more easily, then the KS campaign wouldn't be worrying as much about convincing all of you respectable ladies/gents.
This is not just about respect for the fact was QFG good (yes it is worthy to be replicated), but for what they invented in the series - ie their creative capacity to ground break/integrate new genres - to mold in depth of character, atmosphere, social education, comedy, philosophy, custom rpg (notice they avoided D&D discrete leveling in QFG; quantisation that has no representation in the real world)...
Regarding the emphasis on their School, this is actually an example of what Lori Ann and Corey Cole do. They innovate; they teach. Who else is taking RPG gamers out of their chairs, and giving hope to the world? Perhaps that is what makes high fantasy what it is (and not just another form of escapism).
If they had the funding then they could add the graphics (which everyone would like to see), but they are not ever going to sacrifice game play.
You know i'm not too worried about the graphics. You guys do have some good points but I am looking forward to innovation, story and the uniqueness of the game.
I loved the graphics of Diablo but since it was kind of repetitive I never really played Diablo 2, even though I read many great things about it.
I really hope they can get to their goal and maybe even before the final deadline!!
This will be hell of a close call. But I do still think they can make it.
In any case, PayPal option won't be up before the kickstarter ends - I do hope they're still taking slacker backers afterwards (yes, they told me on the DF forums that this is the term to be used).
edit: Look at it this way - the Shadowrun Online miracle could still happen.
Only 2 days left now and $65k left to the goal, we need all the help we can get now! Please consider pledging to help the Coles make a comeback in the adventure gaming business, I bet there are more than me here who would really like to see that become a reality.
If you already have pledged, you can always raise your pledge (and/or spread the word about this Kickstarter)
Comments
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/1154477367?token=e777beb1
My question - what the heck does that mean? Will it play like classic Final Fantasy games? Baldur's Gate? What? These guys are amazing at saying a whole bunch and at the same time saying nothing. They talk about it being "a true RPG", with "tactical combat that is much more than 'hack and slash'". But that's all they have - talk. No real screenshots, no examples of how it'll control or feel... I've never seen a Kickstarter project with so much text but so little concrete information.
Here's a bit more details on combat:
Right now it's a solo hero, with multi-panel movement (one of the issues with a Rogue-like is that the one movement per turn makes monsters too predictable.)
For the moment, your most important characters options are choosing the right poisons and traps to use. For example, you might use a slow poison on a large Minotaur, and then lure out the surrounding minions to kill one by one. Maybe on the Hard setting you're not strong enough to kill the Minotaur by yourself, so you set up a spring trap to launch it into a pit. For simpler battles, it might just be using a burning poison to kill a set of octopus-like monsters quickly. For basic combat a lot of it will be figuring out the monster's weaknesses, and then choosing positioning to pick them off without taking too much damage.
Here's the very first sentence from Project Eternity's Kickstarter page: Boosh. The entire project summed up neatly and concisely in one clear sentence. That's the sort of thing you need - a clear explanation of what exactly your project is. At the moment you have a huge amount of text, but no definitive 'this is what the game will be like'.
You'll attract far more people if you cut down on the vast amount of text you have on your page (seriously, it's a staggeringly huge amount to sift through) and just provide a basic overview of what the game actually will be. You can still have your text, just add it in updates. But you need to remember that people need solid information, and you don't really give any.
Wow, that sounded really negative. And repetitive. Sorry 'bout that.
"Most of you understand that games are developed using "placeholder art", but I am adding this since we've seen some complaints about the "test dungeon" art in the video. In previous games, we sometimes represented a character with a grey box or a red "X". The "game images" you see in this Kickstarter project are all placeholders. Some of them are really beautiful placeholders, but they may or may not be representative of final game art.
In particular, the 2D top-down image included in the video is a concept piece. That is the point of view you will have in the game, but the actual image is a placeholder. The actual Hero-U game will give you the freedom of movement and tactical actions that the top down view allows, but it will be carefully crafted to look Really Nice in the game. As it is, our prototype is way nicer than boxes and X's. :-)"
I love QFG, but having the game being more of a RPG game with a top down view might not convey the same feeling as the old Sierra QFG games.
I wonder what QFG references we will see in the game since I am sure the Coles can't use every references from their Sierra game (copyright and all.)
On Mashable.com: http://mashable.com/2012/09/17/hero-u/
On Kotaku.com: http://kotaku.com/5953028/the-creators-of-quest-for-glory-want-to-make-a-western-version-of-persona?tag=hero_u
On RPGCodex.net: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8549
On RockPaperShotgun.com: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/20/interv-u-lori-and-corey-cole-on-going-rogue/
In the New York Post (NYPost.com): http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/gamereport/interview_with_cori_cole_creator_fo3JcablCc214MdZhtEh1M
On AdventureGamers.com: http://www.adventuregamers.com/news/view/23082
Project Eternity has the advantage there of being able to point at a game that's exactly like what they're making and boil out the juicy bits for a soundbite. 'Bam! It's Balder's gate, only in our own setting! Done!' The Coles are making something.. unique.. which makes it harder to pin down in a few sentences. Is this hurting them? Sure. Likely. Apparently reading is such a chore these days. :P But it's just the nature of putting together something that doesn't neatly fit into a little box. On the plus side for those of us who've pledged, Lori's commenting pretty regularly on the Kickstarter so there's loads of new info to be had and they've heard about your concerns and know its an issue, they'll likely be doing something (Updates, alter the main page, etc) to try and clear things up. I have faith in them, after all they're pioneers, they injected RPG Elements into a different genre long before everyone started doing it. I'm sure they can inject Adventure Elements into the RPG genre and do just as good a job with it and maybe that'll be the next thing people start putting into everything! Adventure Elements for all! Which can only be a good thing for Adventure Game lovers.
It's nice to know Lori & Cori will be clearing things up a little. I have a bad feeling though that they'll end up with something like Shaker - plenty of information via updates, but the initial idea had so little concrete info people just didn't care and therefore didn't pledge. I know this has a lower goal, but I still have a niggling doubt the same thing'll happen here. I hope it doesn't, but...
This isn't a novel. It's an initial game overview. It's a marketing tool.
When you're trying to make your case for why your opinion, product, idea, etc. merits consideration, it's important to keep things clear and concise. Learning how to keep your target audience's attention is an important skill.
If the purpose of a Kickstarter page is to convince people why they should be interested in the product in question, it should be made plainly and simply what it is about said product that we would be interested in. If we have to read through walls of text to find the few tidbits interspersed throughout that we were really looking for... you know, some people aren't going to bother going to all the trouble.
Suffice it to say that just because someone says an article/post is tl;dr or without proper paragraph breaks, it doesn't make them lazy or a troll.
Not really. The customer has pretty simple questions which only require pretty simple answers.
These are a TON of questions, but again, they could be answered very briefly and simply in general terms without lots of text. If you want to elaborate on it, then you do so afterward.
It's as simple as a high-school English class. Give an introductory paragraph in which you have a thesis statement. Your thesis sums up the whole topic in one or two sentences. Then, you elaborate by giving the meat of your discussion, and at the end you give a brief conclusion.
Or, as my mom (who is an attorney) has said, "sum up what you're going to say, then say it, then briefly sum up what you said." I can't tell you how many game reviews I've read where I just read the first and last paragraphs because I didn't want to spend half an hour deciding whether I agreed with the reviewer or even found the game interesting.
WHICH classic RPG? There's been loads! Baldur's Gate? Zelda? Might & Magic? Specifics, dammit! And this is under the section called "Details, Give Me Details". WHICH THEY DON'T. Instead, we get a few features that aren't explained in context. And a picture of a cat sitting in front of a monitor. Lovely. ...what. Were they serious when they wrote this? Games are full of moral choices! Mass Effect, anyone? This is the biggest laugh of them all. Given how much space they've already used, surely they could change some of it to actually say something rather than force us to wade through pages of interviews just to find out what the hell the game's going to be like? Honestly.
When I say step-by-step, I mean it. Describe, in detail, what an actual battle would be like. Go through every step - your character rolls for initiative, he draws his sword, you move him two space to the left, you select the option to attack, there's a random number that when combined with your dexterity determines whether you hit the enemy him or not, the same thing happens with your strength to determine how much damage he takes, then the enemy does the same thing, etc.
Or they could just compare it to something else. For example - they could say it'll all take place from a top-down perspective on a grid-based system, not unsimilar to D&D gaming. Or they could say it plays out in a turn-based style like classic JRPGs.
Or, best of all, they could actually show us with a video. Yes the graphics would be placeholders, fine, but if we could get an idea of what it will be like, it'd be so much easier to know whether to back it or not.
Now I can't even merge this!! That's SOME advertisement for this kickstarter...
Well, I find the project interesting to a degree; still, as always, I will have to wait until 400,000 are reached and PayPal channels are opened. Yup, yup.
I must admit, I'm a bit tired of old school video game designers thinking that they can do an ancient type of game again and still have ample financial support with only so much as their names in a crowd funding campaign. Because, let's be honest, Hero-U certainly strikes me as an unimaginative and potentially immersion breaking name. The whole "school of heroes" thing is also done to death already. Not the best way to start a story.
Turn based sounds good and adventure elements sounds good; and, thank God, they have their hero named already. Fuck, we'll maybe even get a meaningful back story instead of a nameless face whose entire family was killed and whose past is nonexistent, but can be configured with eight different beards. Still, it's a thief. *sigh*
2D top down, well, UGH, I would have preferred the adventure backdrop approach that they're promising for "special scenes", but I see that the sandboxy puzzled dungeons are far, far less work.
And the top down dungeon art needs to be FAR, FAR better than the preliminary placeholders. So much in fact that in the following quote: ,the idea that according to these words the placeholders MAY be representative of final game art makes me panic.
But as for the details everyone seems to be craving about... errr, well, I'll try hard to not want more details. It's only been a few month since Tim S. told us abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING about his project, namely because he hadn't yet thought this far, and got more than three million dolllars. Or Jordan W., who scored almost two million without handing out more than a remote idea about what his game would be like. Compare this to the Shadowrun Online kickstarter campaign, they explained absolutely everything for their almost finished game in loooong videos narrated by Star Trek actors and almost didn't make it as a result.
That's what I thought too after reading this thread. And it may just be Darth Marsden users having spent too much money on Kickstarter already with not enough projects delivering a finished product.
Now, I really did my best, but the brunt of what I could find was a client list and half-naked pictures of the artist in bed (I kid you not). If someone could guide me towards some ambitious work demonstration, because whatever Spikey here found to be in "good order", I couldn't find it.
I am sick of the idea that video gamers should "not get distracted with art". Video games are ALL about art in one way or another. If deplorable graphic art can be made up with excellent gameplay and story, I'm honestly the first to buy. These are art forms themselves for sure. Spikey is correct to assume that movies have excellent graphic artwork because they are multi million dollar productions, but he grossly exaggerates the matter in an attempt to silence the critics altogether.
No one expects high res, mega defined, ultra detailed, massively time consuming graphics here. Just a bit of effort, an acknowledgement of art more than art itself. A distinct style, thorough reference research, inexhaustible inventiveness and a bold approach to one's work are not particularly tied to the budget*. If the final game looks like every other fan made game (or worse: just like games looked 25 years ago), budgeting has gone awry; and I'm also afraid that in this case, there has been no "artist" on the team.
*missing from this spontaneous enumeration of the artist's virtues is 'inspiration'; I try to be careful with the word as one of my favorite artists, Shaun Tan mostly renounces it
On the Art: It depends on the game. I like the clean design of P0rtal a lot mire than the a lot more detailed design of P0rtal 2.
But then again: if you go for 2D you might as well produce amazing art because nothing is really stopping you from that.
A great opportunity to ask away about the Quest for Glory series, Dr. Brain, Mixed up Fairy Tales, their time at Sierra, the School for Heroes site and of course their latest venture on Kickstarter: Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption.
A new update with a totally redone project video!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/344749?ref=activity
As for the art style - it looks sufficient now. Not more, but absolutely sufficient. As much as I despise every other kickstarter trying to conjure up an "old school" feeling, I think I really WANT a Final Fantasy-style RPG/ dungeon crawler again, with halfway high resolution and these elementary mechanics.
I've played the GameBoy Final Fantasy Legend/Saga games TO DEATH.
Hope the new video gets them the push they need!
I think they will not make it. When this whole thing started they would have gotten so much money but it seems the mindset of the kickstarter users changed.
http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2012/07/kickstarter-stats/
What they need in the next 10 days is not 200,000$.
140,000 is probably enough for the late surge to take them over the top. Yup, backers are that mean.
http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/23214
Also liking the new look!
I played the Quest for Glory games for several years and it was always my secret indulgence. I had some friends who played D&D, but I was always afraid to play because of my propagandized ignorance of the game. I was in my school library one day in 1994 when I noticed a paperback novel left on a table. The cover caught my attention. The red dragon in the background looked very similar to the cover of Hero’s Quest. I checked out Dragons of Autumn Twilight and the rest is history. I started reading fantasy novels like crazy, my friends noticed my interest in fantasy and invited me to play D&D, and I remain an avid fan of fantasy and RPG to this day. I even DM a 3.5 edition campaign of Dragonlance which you can read about on our wiki!
For me, Quest for Glory was a catalyst for fun, excitement, and socialization far beyond what the series offered in hours of playtime. I owe a lot to the Cole’s for their creative influence throughout the Quest for Glory series. This Kickstarter is my opportunity to repay the enjoyment they have provided me both monetarily and with zealous support!
Torchino Motorino
"What good is knowledge and wisdom if you can't use it?" -Erasmus
The way I see it is that a backer either respects the guys who invented QFG (western RPG/adventure hybrid) or is willing to trust them on reputation. Kickstarters generally gain and maintain momentum because of their original fan base. In this case the original fan base has diversified, as QFG adventure elements were integrated into mainstream RPGs - and so is less able to be made aware of the mother cry. Pretty much every guy into RPG I grew up with has heard of and played QFG - they even incorporated characters into their D&D games (which I rarely played). If they could be contacted more easily, then the KS campaign wouldn't be worrying as much about convincing all of you respectable ladies/gents.
This is not just about respect for the fact was QFG good (yes it is worthy to be replicated), but for what they invented in the series - ie their creative capacity to ground break/integrate new genres - to mold in depth of character, atmosphere, social education, comedy, philosophy, custom rpg (notice they avoided D&D discrete leveling in QFG; quantisation that has no representation in the real world)...
Regarding the emphasis on their School, this is actually an example of what Lori Ann and Corey Cole do. They innovate; they teach. Who else is taking RPG gamers out of their chairs, and giving hope to the world? Perhaps that is what makes high fantasy what it is (and not just another form of escapism).
If they had the funding then they could add the graphics (which everyone would like to see), but they are not ever going to sacrifice game play.
Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption +1
I loved the graphics of Diablo but since it was kind of repetitive I never really played Diablo 2, even though I read many great things about it.
I really hope they can get to their goal and maybe even before the final deadline!!
Here's a recent blog post about this on 1up.com which has some good points as well -
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9115417
In any case, PayPal option won't be up before the kickstarter ends - I do hope they're still taking slacker backers afterwards (yes, they told me on the DF forums that this is the term to be used).
edit: Look at it this way - the Shadowrun Online miracle could still happen.
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1964352341/shadowrun-online/#chart-daily
If you already have pledged, you can always raise your pledge
Thank you!
Kickstarter: http://kck.st/WwVlp7
New redesigned homepage: http://www.hero-u.net/