Who Should be the Most Responsible for the Group's Downfall?
Lately, I've been seeing more of that who killed who again, and it poses an interesting question.
Who really was the biggest threat in Season 1?
Who really was the biggest threat in Season 1?
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Larry would never have died...
However the bandits may have attacked a lot earlier...
It is hard to say as the Saint Johns are the reasons Lilly and Ben became threats and theoretically we wouldn't have met the Stranger if we hadn't stolen from his car when we were retuning from the dairy...
However without Ben we wouldn't know everyone is infected and Kenny and Lilly would have squabbled over leaving bases and the bandits without Ben would have attacked a lot earlier...
The Saint Johns are the cause of all the problems but were most definitely the solution to unforeseen problems...
Then again they didn't think she was talking to some creepy man
So did Christa and Omid
What is it with all these Female characters who are pretty good with guns but don't know how batteries work...
Haha
What Clem saw in Ben, I have no idea.
Ben did have a lot of screw ups no doubt but I don't think he really caused the down fall I think mainly it was St johns
Now, I don't hate him. But he caused the bandits to attack the Motel, which ended up killing Duck, Katjaa and Carley/Doug. This, in turn, broke Kenny, and caused Lilly to snap. He didn't mean it, but he indirectly destroyed the group pretty much.
Again, indirectly, he technically got Kenny killed too in my story.
The Stranger comes second, as he killed Kenny, Ben and Lee. Much more malicious, however.
If we're going that route, the one to blame for destroying the group is the Walker that got in the way of Lee's police car.
Otherwise, I'd have to say the stranger, with Ben a close second.
If she didn't trust that stranger, Lee would still be alive, the boat wouldn't be stolen etc.
But from this list? I'm thinking Lilly.
Simply she was the one who was defending her father, when he was an asshole to everyone, she killed one of the group members for no reason (Doug/Carley), and stole the RV (if you chose to take her with you after killing Lilly/Doug).
I don't blame Ben anyway, they were planning to move on from the Motor Inn eventually. However the Stranger did kind of fuck things up for the rest of the group later on in Episode 4/5, but I considered the group already close to breaking anyway.
Think about it, what if he never went to get gas at the motor inn? If he never did that they would not have ended up there at the end of EP1 and everything after would have never happened.
Nope it's the cop. If he didn't tell his story and didn't hit the guy on the road the group would never have come together.
Basically you can't blame one person because you can pin it on anybody when really it was the whole group's fault in different ways.
They probably would have died at the Drug Store. Also, the Motor Inn was well secured and enclosed, if Bandits had not invaded, they probably would have stayed there a while.
You've got some good points, but I think this topic isn't about blaming ONE person for everything, it's about those who were the MOST responsible for the group's downfall
Then the St. John's cause if they never met them, then the bandits wouldn't attack and Larry, Mark, and Doug/Carley would not have died.
In the midst of starvation, the group probably would have gone to the coast anyways, with Carley/Doug, Lilly, and a healthy Duck.
I think that, in time, tensions would have mellowed (somewhat) at the motel if the bandits hadn't attacked due to Ben's incompetence. Lilly would still hate Kenny, understandably, and they wouldn't get along, but things would have gotten at least somewhat better if everything hadn't gone to hell.
I keep seeing this argument over and over, and I still can't for the life of me understand it.
We learn from Jolene at the end of Episode 2 that the only reason why the bandits hadn't targeted the motel is because they were focused on the St. Johns' dairy. Lee's group got a huge bullseye on their backs as soon as the dairy fell. That had nothing to do with Ben.
Ben had a deal going with the bandits that seemed to actually be preventing an attack until Lilly and Lee interfered. Since Ben was giving them what they wanted, they had no reason to charge in guns blazing. The reason the bandits attacked in Episode 3 is because they didn't get the supplies they were promised. Because Lee had taken them. So they reasonably assumed that Ben had reneged on the deal.
Granted, Ben was wrong to keep this from the rest of the group. But saying he caused the attack? On the list of people who come to mind who are far more directly responsible for the attack than Ben was: Lilly, Lee, the St. Johns... oh, and let's not forget the bandits. Because, you know, they're bandits. That's kind of what they do.
I voted for the Stranger--Lee, Kenny, and Ben all died trying to find him, and he left Clementine separated from Christa and Omid, who were the only ones left at that point. That was the last nail in the coffin.
Your post is absolutely correct though - there are others who are much more directly responsible for the group's troubles. I just feel Ben's input did the group more damage than anybody else's.
Okay, that's fair, I suppose.
They would have been killed if not for her if we wouldnt have done anything everyone would have been executed on the spot easily
Multiple playthroughs have pretty much confirmed that the Stranger is an all-around psychotic douche who finds fault with your parenting skills no matter WHAT you've done with Clem up to that point. I have no sympathy for him.
Really only hated Campman out of the three you mentioned
In the end, the St. Johns created that situation, which lead to Lilly going crazy, which perma-fucked the group. It's hard not to blame Ben, but he never did something bad with bad intentions, he was always trying to help I think.
The group killed itself, though you could argue that Clementine and crew would be happily starving on a boat if the stranger didn't walkie-talkie, but it could also count as Clementine's fault for not telling Lee... or not staying in the god damn house.
Overall, just wish there was more we could do as Lee somehow.