Who Should be the Most Responsible for the Group's Downfall?

edited August 2013 in The Walking Dead
Lately, I've been seeing more of that who killed who again, and it poses an interesting question.

Who really was the biggest threat in Season 1?
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Comments

  • edited July 2013
    Shouldn't Kenny be up there aswell, I personally don't blame him for the downfall but I could understand if others might considering the chain reaction caused by the meat locker. I don't think any one person caused the downfall rather as many factors such as Meat Locker,Bandits,Lily,The Boat,The Stranger and The Herd. Even Clem could be blamed as playing a part in the downfall
  • edited July 2013
    I'm waiting for my Kenny option...
  • edited July 2013
    I'm going to say the Saint Johns because of the meat locker scene if they hadn't put them in the meat locker then Larry wouldn't of had heart attack and then Lilly wouldn't have snapped and we wouldn't have had to kill the Saint Johns bandits wouldn't have attacked and made Kennys family die and wouldn't have made Ben want to do all that stupid stuff and made Kenny want to kill him so, yeah Saint Johns should have just gave us rolls and not been Cannibals and left us alone we might have survived
  • edited July 2013
    If the Saint Johns had not been there we would have never met Ben...
    Larry would never have died...
    However the bandits may have attacked a lot earlier...
    It is hard to say as the Saint Johns are the reasons Lilly and Ben became threats and theoretically we wouldn't have met the Stranger if we hadn't stolen from his car when we were retuning from the dairy...
    However without Ben we wouldn't know everyone is infected and Kenny and Lilly would have squabbled over leaving bases and the bandits without Ben would have attacked a lot earlier...

    The Saint Johns are the cause of all the problems but were most definitely the solution to unforeseen problems...
  • edited July 2013
    The Stranger. Ben, too, but not as much. The Stranger made the group get side-tracked looking for him and he kidnaped Clementine, which caused the death of Ben, Kenny (maybe), and possibly Christa and Omid. He also split the whole group apart. Even though Vernon stole the boat and screwed us over, I think Jenny and the group would have found a way out of Savannah if it wasn't for that damn Walkie-Talkie
  • edited July 2013
    They all equally brought down of the group.
  • edited July 2013
    Carley/Doug shouldn't have given Clementine the batteries, but then again Lee shouldn't have let her keep the radio.
  • edited July 2013
    JakeSt123 wrote: »
    Carley/Doug shouldn't have given Clementine the batteries, but then again Lee shouldn't have let her keep the radio.

    Then again they didn't think she was talking to some creepy man
  • edited July 2013
    We all thought it was broken.
  • edited July 2013
    We all thought it was broken.

    So did Christa and Omid
  • edited July 2013
    We all thought it was broken.

    What is it with all these Female characters who are pretty good with guns but don't know how batteries work...
  • edited July 2013
    I really don't know, Christa never really checked the radio so she never knew and Carley, well it's been talked to death so all I will say is nothing.
  • edited July 2013
    I really don't know, Christa never really checked the radio so she never knew and Carley, well it's been talked to death so all I will say is nothing.

    Haha
  • edited July 2013
    If we went all the way back to ground zero, I'd definitely say Ben. I was ready to forgive him for dealing with the bandits - just - but after ditching Clementine in the street and pulling the axe out from the door, I had to ask myself, "How many more people is this kid going to get killed?"

    What Clem saw in Ben, I have no idea.
  • edited July 2013
    If we went all the way back to ground zero, I'd definitely say Ben. I was ready to forgive him for dealing with the bandits - just - but after ditching Clementine in the street and pulling the axe out from the door, I had to ask myself, "How many more people is this kid going to get killed?"

    What Clem saw in Ben, I have no idea.

    Ben did have a lot of screw ups no doubt but I don't think he really caused the down fall I think mainly it was St johns
  • edited July 2013
    Ben.

    Now, I don't hate him. But he caused the bandits to attack the Motel, which ended up killing Duck, Katjaa and Carley/Doug. This, in turn, broke Kenny, and caused Lilly to snap. He didn't mean it, but he indirectly destroyed the group pretty much.

    Again, indirectly, he technically got Kenny killed too in my story.

    The Stranger comes second, as he killed Kenny, Ben and Lee. Much more malicious, however.
  • edited July 2013
    Is it right to blame the St. John's for everything that happened afterwards, even things that were completely unrelated though?

    If we're going that route, the one to blame for destroying the group is the Walker that got in the way of Lee's police car.
  • edited July 2013
    True it's so hard to pin down were it all started.
  • edited July 2013
    No one is responsible for it, it's just the world we live in now.



    Otherwise, I'd have to say the stranger, with Ben a close second.
  • edited July 2013
    To be honest, I think Clementine is the most responsible.
    If she didn't trust that stranger, Lee would still be alive, the boat wouldn't be stolen etc.
    But from this list? I'm thinking Lilly.
    Simply she was the one who was defending her father, when he was an asshole to everyone, she killed one of the group members for no reason (Doug/Carley), and stole the RV (if you chose to take her with you after killing Lilly/Doug).
  • edited July 2013
    I voted St. Johns but I actually think Lilly. Ben would have revealed the bandit deal with the group if Lilly wasn't so hostile. Although the St. Johns did lock Larry up and Lee and Kenny helped to kill him (in my playthrough), which caused Lilly to act like this. However people who have lost more than she did wouldn't kill someone in cold blood (Carley), or act horrible to people who did nothing wrong to her (Ben).

    I don't blame Ben anyway, they were planning to move on from the Motor Inn eventually. However the Stranger did kind of fuck things up for the rest of the group later on in Episode 4/5, but I considered the group already close to breaking anyway.
  • edited July 2013
    Clive. Everyone got distracted by his Afro
  • edited July 2013
    What about Glenn?

    Think about it, what if he never went to get gas at the motor inn? If he never did that they would not have ended up there at the end of EP1 and everything after would have never happened.

    Nope it's the cop. If he didn't tell his story and didn't hit the guy on the road the group would never have come together.

    Basically you can't blame one person because you can pin it on anybody when really it was the whole group's fault in different ways.
  • edited July 2013
    Yertos wrote: »
    What about Glenn?

    Think about it, what if he never went to get gas at the motor inn? If he never did that they would not have ended up there at the end of EP1 and everything after would have never happened.

    Nope it's the cop. If he didn't tell his story and didn't hit the guy on the road the group would never have come together.

    Basically you can't blame one person because you can pin it on anybody when really it was the whole group's fault in different ways.

    They probably would have died at the Drug Store. Also, the Motor Inn was well secured and enclosed, if Bandits had not invaded, they probably would have stayed there a while.
  • edited July 2013
    Yertos wrote: »
    What about Glenn?

    Think about it, what if he never went to get gas at the motor inn? If he never did that they would not have ended up there at the end of EP1 and everything after would have never happened.

    Nope it's the cop. If he didn't tell his story and didn't hit the guy on the road the group would never have come together.

    Basically you can't blame one person because you can pin it on anybody when really it was the whole group's fault in different ways.


    You've got some good points, but I think this topic isn't about blaming ONE person for everything, it's about those who were the MOST responsible for the group's downfall
  • edited July 2013
    duNksteN wrote: »
    You've got some good points, but I think this topic isn't about blaming ONE person for everything, it's about those who were the MOST responsible for the group's downfall

    Then the St. John's cause if they never met them, then the bandits wouldn't attack and Larry, Mark, and Doug/Carley would not have died.
  • edited July 2013
    I'm going with the St. John's. If it wasn't for them, the Save-Lots bandits would never have raided the motor inn. If there was no contact between Lee's group and the bandits, it means that Ben would not have a chance to slip them meds. Likewise, I highly doubt that the group would have found the stranger's station wagon while he was out looking for Adam.

    In the midst of starvation, the group probably would have gone to the coast anyways, with Carley/Doug, Lilly, and a healthy Duck.
  • edited July 2013
    While everyone has responsibility for the group's downfall, Larry, Lilly, Kenny, even Lee, I feel that Ben is the most responsible. Tensions were running high after the incident with the St. Johns, which was obvious to anyone who would have been paying attention, even those who didn't know what had actually happened in the meat locker. Then Ben pulls his stunt with the bandits without telling anyone. Which is what results in the raid, when Lee and Lilly investigate. Ben let the bandits in, who wouldn't have even been there if he hadn't been secretly dealing with them, which caused Duck, Kat, and Carley/Doug's deaths. Lilly was forced to leave as well, or decided to screw the group over instead of waiting for retaliation. All because Ben didn't mention his deal with the bandits BEFORE the raid. Then, he leaves Clem to die, getting Chuck killed loses her, and lets the walkers into Crawford, which gets Brie killed. Then he reveals his secret to Kenny at literally the worst possible time.

    I think that, in time, tensions would have mellowed (somewhat) at the motel if the bandits hadn't attacked due to Ben's incompetence. Lilly would still hate Kenny, understandably, and they wouldn't get along, but things would have gotten at least somewhat better if everything hadn't gone to hell.
  • edited July 2013
    07JonesJ wrote: »
    Ben.

    Now, I don't hate him. But he caused the bandits to attack the Motel, which ended up killing Duck, Katjaa and Carley/Doug.

    I keep seeing this argument over and over, and I still can't for the life of me understand it.

    We learn from Jolene at the end of Episode 2 that the only reason why the bandits hadn't targeted the motel is because they were focused on the St. Johns' dairy. Lee's group got a huge bullseye on their backs as soon as the dairy fell. That had nothing to do with Ben.

    Ben had a deal going with the bandits that seemed to actually be preventing an attack until Lilly and Lee interfered. Since Ben was giving them what they wanted, they had no reason to charge in guns blazing. The reason the bandits attacked in Episode 3 is because they didn't get the supplies they were promised. Because Lee had taken them. So they reasonably assumed that Ben had reneged on the deal.

    Granted, Ben was wrong to keep this from the rest of the group. But saying he caused the attack? On the list of people who come to mind who are far more directly responsible for the attack than Ben was: Lilly, Lee, the St. Johns... oh, and let's not forget the bandits. Because, you know, they're bandits. That's kind of what they do.

    I voted for the Stranger--Lee, Kenny, and Ben all died trying to find him, and he left Clementine separated from Christa and Omid, who were the only ones left at that point. That was the last nail in the coffin.
  • edited July 2013
    magodesky wrote: »
    I keep seeing this argument over and over, and I still can't for the life of me understand it.
    Which is why he's indirectly responsible. The problem is the sheer amount of bad events that he accidentally causes.

    Your post is absolutely correct though - there are others who are much more directly responsible for the group's troubles. I just feel Ben's input did the group more damage than anybody else's.
  • edited July 2013
    07JonesJ wrote: »
    Which is why he's indirectly responsible. The problem is the sheer amount of bad events that he accidentally causes.

    Your post is absolutely correct though - there are others who are much more directly responsible for the group's troubles. I just feel Ben's input did the group more damage than anybody else's.

    Okay, that's fair, I suppose.
  • edited July 2013
    Lily. If she would have stayed calm no one would have died when the bandits attacked. Her opening fire on the bandits lead to 3 deaths and her leaving the group.
  • edited July 2013
    Ben, a child in an adult body, I think he was bad.
  • edited July 2013
    trd84 wrote: »
    Lily. If she would have stayed calm no one would have died when the bandits attacked. Her opening fire on the bandits lead to 3 deaths and her leaving the group.

    They would have been killed if not for her if we wouldnt have done anything everyone would have been executed on the spot easily
  • edited July 2013
    Mornai wrote: »
    No one is responsible for it, it's just the world we live in now.

    Otherwise, I'd have to say the stranger, with Ben a close second.

    Multiple playthroughs have pretty much confirmed that the Stranger is an all-around psychotic douche who finds fault with your parenting skills no matter WHAT you've done with Clem up to that point. I have no sympathy for him.
  • edited July 2013
    I find it somewhat funny that I do not hate Ben, Campman or Vernon as much as Lilly, kind of telling why kind of man I am.
  • edited July 2013
    I find it somewhat funny that I do not hate Ben, Campman or Vernon as much as Lilly, kind of telling why kind of man I am.

    Really only hated Campman out of the three you mentioned
  • edited July 2013
    The Stranger is at least indirectly responsible for Lee getting killed and Clem almost dying.
  • edited July 2013
    Maybe Larry is to blame. :P If he could control his temper and not have a goddamn heart while they're all locked in there it would have been super.

    In the end, the St. Johns created that situation, which lead to Lilly going crazy, which perma-fucked the group. It's hard not to blame Ben, but he never did something bad with bad intentions, he was always trying to help I think.
  • edited July 2013
    Lilly show Carley out of rage. Ben wasn't honest with the rest of the members, Andy attempted murder on all members (except two), Kenny killed Larry out of panic.


    The group killed itself, though you could argue that Clementine and crew would be happily starving on a boat if the stranger didn't walkie-talkie, but it could also count as Clementine's fault for not telling Lee... or not staying in the god damn house.

    Overall, just wish there was more we could do as Lee somehow.
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