Should Season 3 reset or continue the S&M Universe?

2

Comments

  • edited April 2008
    All I want to see in Season 3 is
    The Mariachis working as Wedding Singers because it pays better than singing for birthdays.
    If they add that, they can do whatever else they want with the season.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'd like something similar to what they did in the animated show where some of the cases just kind of happened while Sam & Max were around a la 202 post opening credits.

    It would be funny and probably annoying to Max to have to solve a local caper as they try to get from point A to point B by the season's end.
  • edited April 2008
    Taumel: Agreed.
    It's what made Sam & Max the comic so fun - that they were short stories of what happened on their road trip and episodes of life. They weren't necessarily all connected.
    I agree some continuity is great, but the amount of characters that's brought back every episode satisfies only people who've religiously played the games since episode 1 season 1. Telltale must have a bigger budget now and could bring us something much more complex. Eh? Eh?

    How about a spinoff episode in the middle of the third season where max gets kidnapped and sam has to rescue him? We've seen the 'solo sam' thing in the past a couple of times and it worked fine.

    or maybe you could use that unfinished comic steve was working on as a basis for one of the episodes.....you know....the one with the gibbon!
  • edited April 2008
    or maybe you could use that unfinished comic steve was working on as a basis for one of the episodes.....you know....the one with the gibbon!

    I keep hearing about this - from people on the forums, from the front flap of the comic book... now can someone please tell me some substantial info? How finished is it, and where might I see it?

    Back on topic, I am getting fairly tired of walking up and down the same street. I was glad that Sybil's shop was relocated so I didn't ever have to attempt the long mile between her place and Stinky's/the COPS. Somehow, though, changing the feel of the street - like making it nighttime in WNB - fools me into thinking I'm somewhere totally new, and the whole experience is a lot more fun. ^^ Maybe some nice winter or autumn or acid rain would keep it interesting.
  • FloFlo
    edited April 2008
    It doesn't have to be a full continuity reboot, but if we only see the office once more in 301 and then get all-new locations (road trip maybe), all the better.
  • edited April 2008
    nahigen - it's apparently only missing a few pages, so it's relatively close to completion but steve hasn't had time to finish it between his job at pixar and telltale. you probably won't see it anytime soon, unless we all keep bugging steve really really hard. so better get on that, on his blog (spudvision).

    Hey Telltale, was that a CLOVERFIELD JOKE???? :O

    A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO LIKE THE ROADTRIP IDEA! HUH? HUH? POKE POKE!
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2008
    mish wrote: »
    nahigen - it's apparently only missing a few pages, so it's relatively close to completion but steve hasn't had time to finish it between his job at pixar and telltale. you probably won't see it anytime soon, unless we all keep bugging steve really really hard. so better get on that, on his blog (spudvision).

    Much like how I don't know if Freelance Police was "almost done except for some polish," I don't think the comic was "only missing a few pages." Steve Purcell showed me the comic at one point, and it was completed through about the first twelve pages, and then devolved into sketches and rough ideas. It didn't even fully get to the part where Sam finds the monkey. Granted, this was almost ten years ago when he showed me the unfinished book, but I don't know if he's really had time to go back to it much since then.
  • edited April 2008
    mish wrote: »
    A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO LIKE THE ROADTRIP IDEA!

    Hmm... yes...
    And then there's a carnaval, and a Biggest Ball of Twine, and a aligator golf course and how about a bungee jump thingamagoo at Mt. Rushmore and a tarpit and ...
  • edited April 2008
    SPOILER ALERT

    I was quite disappointed by how heavily Season 2 relied on Season 1 for its humor, especially
    the Soda Poppers as villains in 205
    . When the second season began, I had naturally been expecting a few references in the jokes to the previous season's events, but I thought the puzzles and storyline wouldn't require too much knowledge of 101-106. I certainly didn't expect the entire overarching plot of the new season to hinge on events from Season 1.

    I really, really hope Season 3 sees all-new ultimate villains, not ones whose villainy is rooted in events from Season 1 or 2. Otherwise, bringing back characters is fine, but new players should be able to start playing 301 without having to catch up first.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2008
    For what it's worth, I don't think that a hardcore fan who has been playing the series from day one is in a position to accurately decide what a new player should or shouldn't be able to do. But, that said, I'm sure that much like Season One and Season Two were different in their structure and storytelling, Season Two and Season Three will also have differences, which will be revealed as the season progresses.

    massive 205 spoilers within:
    Also, as a side note, aside from
    the throwaway Brady Culture stuff, the Soda Poppers story was wholly contained in Season Two, with their appearance in Ice Station Santa, and their interrupted birthday in Chariots of the Dogs.
    If Season One hadn't existed,
    I imagine the Poppers would have had more screen time in this season , but all you really need to know is 1) they're annoying 2) their appearance at the north pole is slightly suspicious 3) sam & max have met them before and have messed with them a lot 4) their birthday was ruined by Sam & Max.
    If this had been a Sam & Max comic book, you wouldn't expect any of the backstory from Season One to be needed for the story to work --
    the Soda Poppers would really have appeared out of nowhere with some thinly referenced context layered in over time, and then ended up
    being the masterminds
    -- and I think that if you are a player who didn't have that backstory, it would still be okay. Obviously not as strong as if you yourself were there for all the past Poppers encounters, but the story still holds. It just recontextualizes
    the Poppers
    as characters more in the vein of Commander Blip and the Rubber Pants Commandos or something, who have a hugely implied backstory and relationship to Sam & Max, but its one you really don't need to know much about if you don't want to.
  • FloFlo
    edited April 2008
    barchetta wrote: »
    Hmm... yes...
    And then there's a carnaval, and a Biggest Ball of Twine, and a aligator golf course and how about a bungee jump thingamagoo at Mt. Rushmore and a tarpit and ...
    No need to be an ass about it. Suggesting a road trip doesn't mean we have to rehash Hit the Road.

    A road trip is just a simple way of ensuring a minimum of recycled locations, which is what a lot of people have been asking for.
  • edited April 2008
    Flo wrote: »
    A road trip is just a simple way of ensuring a minimum of recycled locations, which is what a lot of people have been asking for.
    Agreed, it would be nice to have a season long road trip where each stop was a different episode, but I can't see that happening for a loooooooong time. Especially as they probably already have the main story line for Season 3 mapped out.
    characters more in the vein of Commander Blip and the Rubber Pants Commandos or something, who have a hugely implied backstory and relationship to Sam & Max, but its one you really don't need to know much about if you don't want to.
    It would be quite cool for this to actually happen, just have some characters turn up with a back story already in place, though I suppose this already happened with Grandpa Stinky.

    Back on topic I think it would be a shame to lose what Telltale have spent two years creating, and a bit of a cop out to go "Okay so forget all that stuff and it's ramifications, pretend it didn't happened"
  • edited April 2008
    Nah, a reset is unnecessary. Look at the Simpsons, they went from a tiny cast to a ridiculously large one, and it worked perfectly. Why can't Sam & Max do that?
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2008
    Flo wrote: »
    A road trip is just a simple way of ensuring a minimum of recycled locations, which is what a lot of people have been asking for.

    An even simpler way to not re-use locations would also be to just make a Hawaii 5-0 game instead of Sam & Max for Season Three.
  • edited April 2008
    Jake wrote: »
    An even simpler way to not re-use locations would also be to just make a Hawaii 5-0 game instead of Sam & Max for Season Three.

    Come on now reusing the tv station from season 1 was a real stretch.. if you are going back to the same old locations again it does take away some of the excitement.. I understand why it's done, because it improves the gameplay and with 1 game every month the design team can't make 5 or 6 new locations/rooms per episode.. Maybe by season 3 it will have been figured out, perhaps some advancements in the telltale tool? or more design staff hired.. Thats why I like that season 3 is about a year off.. gives some space and breathing room to see how best to take sam & max forward.
  • edited April 2008
    It should continue to get better and evolve. The game is getting better and better all the time, last few episodes 204 & 205 are the best in my mind so far.

    But yeah new locations, more to explore and ofc new people are the way to go, its no wonder all those episodes that had lots of that are the most popular. :)

    And as always i still like full games the most, and dont hope this episode thing is a new trend, so hopefully at somepoint telltale gets big & rich enough to do a full Sam&max game :)

    and also we need even more detail to locals, 2d is sadly still miles ahead, lets get the hall in sam&max's building now, and the room outside there office not being empty when you open the door, and lets also bring back a map like structure like in hit the road.

    Was a way better a more visual way to get around between places :)

    And yes im walling to pay 2 or even 3 times as much as previous seasons if they really improve overall =)
  • edited April 2008
    Jake wrote: »
    An even simpler way to not re-use locations would also be to just make a Hawaii 5-0 game instead of Sam & Max for Season Three.

    Oh good. Now I have THAT theme song stuck in my head.
  • FloFlo
    edited April 2008
    Jake wrote: »
    An even simpler way to not re-use locations would also be to just make a Hawaii 5-0 game instead of Sam & Max for Season Three.
    Please don't try to tell us that the recycling of locations was done for artistic reasons. I think most of the people here understand why it's necessary, but that doesn't make the wish for less recycling any less valid, and it certainly doesn't mean that less recycling would mean it's not a Sam & Max game.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2008
    I'm not claiming its done for artistic reasons (though I think that they do by and large make sense in the stories told. While 205 had some which were a bit of a stretch, I thought they were used brilliantly in 204), but saying that pitching a road movie story is a "simple way" to not re-use locations is a preposterous oversimplification of the real-world issues at hand.
  • FloFlo
    edited April 2008
    Jake wrote: »
    saying that pitching a road movie story is a "simple way" to not re-use locations is a preposterous oversimplification of the real-world issues at hand.
    I meant that the other way around. If you want less recycling, asking for a road trip basically ensures that since it doesn't give you a lot of chances to re-use content.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2008
    I think you misread what I said, since I said the same thing as you. "No re-use" basically = "less recycling."
  • FloFlo
    edited April 2008
    Let me rephrase that. I didn't mean that a road trip would make it easier for you (Telltale) to do less recycling.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2008
    I see now!
  • edited April 2008
    Jake wrote: »
    For what it's worth, I don't think that a hardcore fan who has been playing the series from day one is in a position to accurately decide what a new player should or shouldn't be able to do. But, that said, I'm sure that much like Season One and Season Two were different in their structure and storytelling, Season Two and Season Three will also have differences, which will be revealed as the season progresses.

    massive 205 spoilers within:
    Also, as a side note, aside from
    the throwaway Brady Culture stuff, the Soda Poppers story was wholly contained in Season Two, with their appearance in Ice Station Santa, and their interrupted birthday in Chariots of the Dogs.
    If Season One hadn't existed,
    I imagine the Poppers would have had more screen time in this season , but all you really need to know is 1) they're annoying 2) their appearance at the north pole is slightly suspicious 3) sam & max have met them before and have messed with them a lot 4) their birthday was ruined by Sam & Max.
    If this had been a Sam & Max comic book, you wouldn't expect any of the backstory from Season One to be needed for the story to work --
    the Soda Poppers would really have appeared out of nowhere with some thinly referenced context layered in over time, and then ended up
    being the masterminds
    -- and I think that if you are a player who didn't have that backstory, it would still be okay. Obviously not as strong as if you yourself were there for all the past Poppers encounters, but the story still holds. It just recontextualizes
    the Poppers
    as characters more in the vein of Commander Blip and the Rubber Pants Commandos or something, who have a hugely implied backstory and relationship to Sam & Max, but its one you really don't need to know much about if you don't want to.

    First it's a matter of personal taste if you like certain things and then if you enjoy dealing with those you don't. Secondly it comes down to alternatives. If for instance there would exist a second Sam&Max which comes without the poppers and with more variety then it's very likely i would have gone for this one instead.

    Were the seasons fun although of certain lacks? Yes.

    Was it the best which you could hope for? Nope.

    A thing i found distracting from time to time was that some characters and objects were reused to a degree that it felt artificial.
    Take for instance the cake which you offer the poppers at the end. Same as the cake which Stinky turned into just before.
    Such things drag you out of the story like in very simple comics were all characters are responsible for this and that and ... at a certain point it's a bit too much.

    As for the story i have to say that to me it feels too constructed. It's not so much in a flow or brings you to moments were you're thinking oh yes this makes sense now. It's more like you create a story for something and then after this is done, reuse stuff and bend it to the direction which pops up to your mind then. So in a weird way it always can make sense but it just doesn't feel really convincing and clever. If looking at the whole season i wouldn't say that the story is one of the big strengths of Sam&Max so far.

    A road movie like thing has a big plus on that it's an ongoing thing. Send them on vacation (Desoto, trailer (or generally give them a mobile caravan office), ferry, plane, spaceship not heading for home, walking a mountain trail, the train of love,...) get into trouble with something, whoops there is a case. You need a location which they can reuse a few times in order to give some more stability, let them use a abandoned office, a motel room, their seatrow in a plane or whatever but you are free to go after using it for an episode or maybe two.

    To me the nice thing about Sam&Max is more about what you can read beetween the lines and which shows up in the overall experience. There is a certain degree of quality in more than just one aspect and how this all comes together whilst some aspects are stonger and some are weaker. That's the nice thing.
  • edited April 2008
    taumel wrote: »
    A thing i found distracting from time to time was that some characters and objects were reused to a degree that it felt artificial.
    Take for instance the cake which you offer the poppers at the end. Same as the cake which Stinky turned into just before.
    i guess your argument is valid, but i can't really agree with your example. that is totally supposed to be that way and didn't bother me at all. why should it look different if it actually is the same more or less?
    the reuse of old characters and locations should be limited in season three however. don't get me wrong, i like the recurring characters, but their importance should be reduced and the big parts should got to new characters. also, the time you spend in reused locations should be limited. you can be in the office, but only until you did what you have to and go back to the case instead of wandering around the neighborhood.
  • edited April 2008
    ShaggE wrote: »
    Nah, a reset is unnecessary. Look at the Simpsons, they went from a tiny cast to a ridiculously large one, and it worked perfectly. Why can't Sam & Max do that?

    I'm not saying that characters should disappear, it's just that the Desoto can't be possessed for too long to be useful. Or Max being president for more than a season.

    In The Simpsons (or Futurama, a favorite of mine) the story continues and the universe expands, but the individual episodes are never so drastic as above mentioned examples to make matters unnecessarily complicated.
  • FloFlo
    edited April 2008
    barchetta wrote: »
    I'm not saying that characters should disappear, it's just that the Desoto can't be possessed for too long to be useful. Or Max being president for more than a season.
    Pretty much all of that stuff is fixable, though, if continuity really matters that much. (
    Though yet another exorcism might be too much and would be better as back-story.
    )
  • edited April 2008
    Jake wrote: »
    An even simpler way to not re-use locations would also be to just make a Hawaii 5-0 game instead of Sam & Max for Season Three.

    There's really no need for that. The forums are intended for feedback from the consumers to the Telltale team to make the games "better" or more suited for the market. Also after two seasons you can't keep a lot of constants, you have to kick it up a notch, or else you'll start losing audience.

    The people here on the forums are going out of their way to give you their opinions. Most have no knowledge of how the Telltale tool works, but they don't need to. That's your job. If somebody suggests something that can't be done due to technical complications, all is well, move on.

    "The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle."

    EDIT: Oh, and about the comic, I heard from Steve's lips that it's nearly done, but that he hasn't had time to finish it. Maybe he's worked on it since. :)
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2008
    Heh sorry if that post came off all snarky -- it was meant to be in more good fun than it reads, apparently. No harm to anyones opinion was intended! :(
  • booboo
    edited April 2008
    Here's what I think. And since I'm me I value my opinion over anyone else's.

    I think the staff got a lot of mileage out of the continuity of Max's presidentship and his status as a high priest and I think it's time to put those two bits to bed. As funny as it is that the president has not been involved in the actual running of the country as of late... I'm happy to have those two things resolved "off screen" or in dialogue.

    Other than that, I think it would be humorous if Sam and Max did go to a foreign country to set up a new base of operations and it looked EXACTLY like their current street, but with mild details changed.

    I think we were all pretty happy with Season 2's new locales, especially the main office of Hell. If things keep going that way, I think we need not worry about whether there is a total reset or not.
  • FloFlo
    edited April 2008
    boo wrote: »
    Other than that, I think it would be humorous if Sam and Max did go to a foreign country to set up a new base of operations and it looked EXACTLY like their current street, but with mild details changed.
    There's also the option of lookalike locations akin to the three different Snuckey's stores in Hit the Road. A complete lack of recycling just isn't feasible with monthly releases, but we can still hope, can't we?
    boo wrote: »
    I think we were all pretty happy with Season 2's new locales, especially the main office of Hell. If things keep going that way, I think we need not worry about whether there is a total reset or not.
    I like the new locations well enough. Unfortunately Season Two ended on a low note with the massive recycling in 205.
  • edited April 2008
    Well, it's not like locations seldomly used in the Animated Series (The Sub-Basement of Solitude), or any unused or forgotten characters, Hero or Otherwise (Darla "The Geek" Gugenheek, or Mack Salmon, Sam's Grandma from "Christmas, Bloody Christmas," or even Lorne, The Friend For Life), or make the DeSoto back to its former glory, but better, with Land, Sea, and Air-based Transformations.

    Just don't say "LANDMASTER!" or "Do A Barrel Roll," okay?
  • edited April 2008
    Flo wrote: »
    There's also the option of lookalike locations akin to the three different Snuckey's stores in Hit the Road.

    And they all looked and talked like Bernard Bernoulli :D
  • edited April 2008
    I think I would go more for "continue" than "reset". If I were to reset anything, I would clean up the office a little- the stuff they collected over the season was pretty funny, but if they keep hoarding stuff at that rate, they'll run out of room! Oh, and of course (ep. 205 spoiler)
    never ever ever bring the Soda Poppers back ever again ever.

    And you never know, season 3 might end up tying up a lot of stuff like Max's presidency (what WAS Superball doing in their office, anyway?) and the possessed Desoto.
  • edited April 2008
    ezzetabi wrote: »
    The roaming desoto is eating miles of asphalt...
    Sam:- As was saying this morning we have to move for a long mission in a new area.
    Max:- Where we'll live?
    Sam:- The commissioner organized a new home, it seems.

    Sam and Max enter in a obviously office looking room. White walls, two desks, four chairs (one higher for Max), few empty file cabinets. Two window with a nice balcony with a red floor. Not a single dot of dust.

    Sam:- Here we are. Welcome in our new workplace.
    Max:- ...
    Sam:- As first thing lets take our luggage from the car and...
    Max:- NOPE, as first thing...

    Cut to the next scene of their new office, only it's now just as dingy, dilapidated and doodled on as their old one, complete with the tire marks, bullet holes and mysterious stains.
    Max: . . . we do some remodeling.
    Sam: You really know how to make a place feel like home, little buddy.
  • edited April 2008
    They can clean up the street maybe redesign it a bit after its been destroyed. They could have blister blaster fixed/ repaired, I would like to see bliss again but hes dead so i guess thats not a possibility.

    a reset would screw up the way the game feels
  • booboo
    edited April 2008

    And you never know, season 3 might end up tying up a lot of stuff like Max's presidency (what WAS Superball doing in their office, anyway?) and the possessed Desoto.

    I think I'm the only one who doesn't care why Superball was in S&M's office.
    And I hope that we don't need a whole season to clear up Max's presidency. The storyline well is run dry there.
  • booboo
    edited April 2008
    The most recent season was wild, outrageous and over the top with myths, time travel, conspiracy theories, the afterlife, Max as president and a high priest. How do you top that?

    Maybe the answer is to go backwards. Not reset the storylines, but bring S&M back to chasing purse snatchers and build from there. Maybe we could get some mysterious dames? They always noir things up.
  • edited April 2008
    boo wrote: »
    How do you top that?

    Max as pope, of course. :D
  • booboo
    edited April 2008
    ShaggE wrote: »
    Max as pope, of course. :D

    I think Cerebus taught me everything I need to know about anthropomorphic creatures wearing tall hats.
  • edited April 2008
    ShaggE wrote: »
    Max as pope, of course. :D
    na, he already has a religious title..that would be boring..
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