I realize that, I'm just saying from when they moved to the Bronx, when was the glamour rules implemented? Because from the onset, the animals would have as much of a right to glamour as two legged non humans, no?
*pcharl01
Jersey works for the Crooked Man, Holly runs a bar and Lily was prostituting herself, all of which are arguably lucrative enough to afford them glamours, or possibly just Greenleaf's cheaper, half-assed versions.
Most likely, being able to pay a witch to make you look human just started out as one of the loopholes when New Amsterdam grew so big and busy that keeping animal fables unnoticed became impossible and they had to establish the farm, and it's just been the preferred method ever since. That was in the 1600s, Gren and the trolls would have been very effective as workers and laborers or mercenaries, which might have earned them enough money to buy a starting glamour. How toad started out is anyone's guess. Fishing, maybe? And if anything, Jersey started out financed by the Crooked Man as a henchman.
I realize that, I'm just saying from when they moved to the Bronx, when was the glamour rules implemented? Because from the onset, the animals would have as much of a right to glamour as two legged non humans, no?
Most likely, being able to pay a witch to make you look human just started out as one of the loopholes when New Amsterdam grew so big and bu… moresy that keeping animal fables unnoticed became impossible and they had to establish the farm, and it's just been the preferred method ever since. That was in the 1600s, Gren and the trolls would have been very effective as workers and laborers or mercenaries, which might have earned them enough money to buy a starting glamour. How toad started out is anyone's guess. Fishing, maybe? And if anything, Jersey started out financed by the Crooked Man as a henchman.
True. I have mixed feelings about her. For the most part, I do like her, but she can tick me off on occasion. I think she's a good person and she means well, but it doesn't feel like she really respects Bigby, yet she expects him to respect her. I would like to see their romance blossom though. I look forward to that. She probably won't be so cold once the sparks fly between them.
I think we agree on most things then. I don't think that I would have let Toad stay if I wasn't able to give him money for the glamour, especially because I told him about a half dozen times that he had to get one. It did get tiring having to get on his case every time I ran into him. I'll admit that my reasoning behind Colin is definitely selfish and sentimental in nature. I acknowledge that and I'm not making excuses for it. He his Bigby's friend and as long as he lays low and stays in the Woodlands, then I won't send him back to the Farm. If he were to start leaving the apartment, then I would have a problem with it. As far as Snow goes, I think she has a lot of potential as a leader, but I dislike her arrogance. She was a glorified secretary who literally JUST came into a position of power. She ignored the pleas of poorer Fables for a long time as secretary. She doesn't get to be self-righteous towards Bigby, in my opinion. She needs to respect that he's held his position for a lot longer than she's held her's. I just think that she needs to be put in her place a bit and needs some humility. I do like her for the most part. I hope that she becomes a fairer, better leader as time goes on.
I did the same with Toad for the same reason, but a lot of players didn't take Crane's money and sent him on his way with just another warni… moreng because they didn't want to do anything so despicable as force him to move to the country to protect the community. And your reasoning about Colin basically amounts to "I was an ass to him when we were kids, so now I let him hide his drugs at my place if he wants to. Just because I'm a captain of the NYPD doesn't mean I can't be a good buddy, and it's only for a few days anyway."
And that's great, but a lot of players seem to resent her simply because she wasn't as cuddly and unprofessional and gave Bigby some strict orders in this episode, and so break the rules and endanger the community just to be contrary. That's what I'm talking about in the OP.
Well, I have a couple playthroughs, so I don't really rush at all. I love the game and I like seeing the different outcomes. I'm talking about my main/canon playthrough. I didn't rush it. I made a decision based on the information I had. I wanted an opportunity to talk to Holly alone. I feel that because Bigby is the Sheriff he should handle the investigation. I also felt that Snow was in danger and I wanted to protect her. The Tweedles are known to go to the Trip Trap on occasion and I didn't want to unnecessarily put her in a precarious situation. I understand your point about her being safe with Bigby and I did do a playthrough where I brought her along. Ultimately, it doesn't make a difference in the game. The only difference I did notice was Snow's arrogance and hostility when she doesn't get her way. I didn't like that and it's one of the issues I have with her personality now. I feel like she doesn't respect Bigby's office. She wants to be Mayor, Assistant to the Mayor, Sheriff, Detective, and Secretary all at once, but those aren't all her jobs. I think she should focus on working at the Business Office. The Fables are always talking about how they have to wait in line there and that they never get to speak with anyone at the Business Office. If Snow were more focused on her work and less on Bigby's maybe that wouldn't be the case.
Show me how you played the game, because I already know you rushed through episode 2. Letting her stay is not protecting her, because the only time Snow is safe is when she's next to Bigby.
And the sparks almost did fly, but Colin couldn't keep his snout shut. It looked like Snow was more pissed at it more than Bigby, which could explain what he said to Snow in the comics after their memory blockout and that's when she was really pissed at Bigby.
True. I have mixed feelings about her. For the most part, I do like her, but she can tick me off on occasion. I think she's a good person a… morend she means well, but it doesn't feel like she really respects Bigby, yet she expects him to respect her. I would like to see their romance blossom though. I look forward to that. She probably won't be so cold once the sparks fly between them.
Actually Snow held her job longer than Bigby since Crane was constantly embezzling funds to play out his sick fantasies. Snow's comments can get confusing. She wants everyone to see Bigby the way she sees Bigby.
I think we agree on most things then. I don't think that I would have let Toad stay if I wasn't able to give him money for the glamour, espe… morecially because I told him about a half dozen times that he had to get one. It did get tiring having to get on his case every time I ran into him. I'll admit that my reasoning behind Colin is definitely selfish and sentimental in nature. I acknowledge that and I'm not making excuses for it. He his Bigby's friend and as long as he lays low and stays in the Woodlands, then I won't send him back to the Farm. If he were to start leaving the apartment, then I would have a problem with it. As far as Snow goes, I think she has a lot of potential as a leader, but I dislike her arrogance. She was a glorified secretary who literally JUST came into a position of power. She ignored the pleas of poorer Fables for a long time as secretary. She doesn't get to be self-righteous towards Bigby, in my opinion. She needs to r… [view original content]
Snow White is most certainly not a glorified secretary. She's one of Fabletown's original founders from way before Bigby joined up because she asked him to, and almost single-handedly ran everything more or less smoothly for 400 years because both of her superiors were borderline incompetent. She might not have much experience with being openly in charge of things and giving direct orders and expect to be obeyed, and might be a bit rattled over Crane's perving and criminal behavior and Lilly's death while disguised as her right now, but she's a competent administrator who knows what Fabletown needs to stay afloat better than anyone. She's well within her rights ordering Bigby around without apology, being his direct superior now. That doesn't mean he can't stand up to her if he knows she's wrong, but she isn't required to bow and scrape to get him to do his damn job, or even stick her nose in when she feels it's necessary, and for their working relationship to function in the future, Bigby needs to deal with that as much as she does.
Now she's "come into power" exactly when the entire community is about to blow sky-high, and her first reaction is to try to reel things in and let them stabilize, or at the very least try not to escalate the situation, which is, let's be honest, a WAY safer and more logical approach in the long run compared to Bigby's vague idea of tracking down the entire criminal underground and having a show down, hoping he'll come out on top and maybe find out what the hell is up with those murders along the way, rather than, say, walk into a trap and get killed, leaving the Crooked Man to reign freely over Fabletown without anyone to defend or back Snow up.
I think we agree on most things then. I don't think that I would have let Toad stay if I wasn't able to give him money for the glamour, espe… morecially because I told him about a half dozen times that he had to get one. It did get tiring having to get on his case every time I ran into him. I'll admit that my reasoning behind Colin is definitely selfish and sentimental in nature. I acknowledge that and I'm not making excuses for it. He his Bigby's friend and as long as he lays low and stays in the Woodlands, then I won't send him back to the Farm. If he were to start leaving the apartment, then I would have a problem with it. As far as Snow goes, I think she has a lot of potential as a leader, but I dislike her arrogance. She was a glorified secretary who literally JUST came into a position of power. She ignored the pleas of poorer Fables for a long time as secretary. She doesn't get to be self-righteous towards Bigby, in my opinion. She needs to r… [view original content]
Now I get it. The reason choosing to let Snow with you should be the fact that Crane acts very suspiciously if you mention trackmarks. With Crane's suspicious actions you can't trust him, can you? You are right on Snow wanting to do too much, she hides her reasons though. The only logical reason being the natural bond between Snow and Bigby, Snow doesn't know the true meaning yet. Snow should hire her own assistant, which she probably will in the next episode.
Well, I have a couple playthroughs, so I don't really rush at all. I love the game and I like seeing the different outcomes. I'm talking abo… moreut my main/canon playthrough. I didn't rush it. I made a decision based on the information I had. I wanted an opportunity to talk to Holly alone. I feel that because Bigby is the Sheriff he should handle the investigation. I also felt that Snow was in danger and I wanted to protect her. The Tweedles are known to go to the Trip Trap on occasion and I didn't want to unnecessarily put her in a precarious situation. I understand your point about her being safe with Bigby and I did do a playthrough where I brought her along. Ultimately, it doesn't make a difference in the game. The only difference I did notice was Snow's arrogance and hostility when she doesn't get her way. I didn't like that and it's one of the issues I have with her personality now. I feel like she doesn't respect Bigby's office. She wants t… [view original content]
I would not be a good sheriff in real life. I acknowledge that I'm probably not a good sheriff in-game. Rather, I just try to be a "nice guy", regardless of whether than means being a good sheriff or not.
A huge part of that comes from the fact that I'm aware I'm playing a Telltale Game, and one that happens to be a prequel. Thus, the main consequences of my actions are the reactions and relationships I build with the characters involved, not any long-term ramifications on the system of Fabletown. It may be true that sending Toad on his way could, in-universe, put Fabletown at risk, but that decision doesn't actually change the status of Fabletown in, say, the comics, and I doubt it'll have much impact within the scope of the game, either. Because of this, I mainly base my decisions on the characters involved and how they view Bigby as a result. I value Toad's and Colin's opinions of Bigby over Snow's, and thus I let them stay despite Snow's wishes.
Again, I realize this would be a terrible way to run things were it an actual system of law, but that's not how I go about playing the game.
That's a very reasonable way to think about it. Personally, I feel more compelled to stay faithful to the comic book canon than reassured that it exists regardless of what I do in the game. That means playing Bigby as close to his comics self as possible, and if not deliberately manipulating events then at least trying to enact them in ways that I can imagine would lead to the dynamics we see in the beginning of the comic books. To me, the hardass Bigby I've been reading about for years is just much more authentic and interesting than any mix of fuzzy do-good impulses I might indulge by handing out breaks and favors at every opportunity.
I would not be a good sheriff in real life. I acknowledge that I'm probably not a good sheriff in-game. Rather, I just try to be a "nice guy… more", regardless of whether than means being a good sheriff or not.
A huge part of that comes from the fact that I'm aware I'm playing a Telltale Game, and one that happens to be a prequel. Thus, the main consequences of my actions are the reactions and relationships I build with the characters involved, not any long-term ramifications on the system of Fabletown. It may be true that sending Toad on his way could, in-universe, put Fabletown at risk, but that decision doesn't actually change the status of Fabletown in, say, the comics, and I doubt it'll have much impact within the scope of the game, either. Because of this, I mainly base my decisions on the characters involved and how they view Bigby as a result. I value Toad's and Colin's opinions of Bigby over Snow's, and thus I let them stay despite Snow… [view original content]
Now I get it. The reason choosing to let Snow with you should be the fact that Crane acts very suspiciously if you mention trackmarks. With … moreCrane's suspicious actions you can't trust him, can you? You are right on Snow wanting to do too much, she hides her reasons though. The only logical reason being the natural bond between Snow and Bigby, Snow doesn't know the true meaning yet. Snow should hire her own assistant, which she probably will in the next episode.
Like I said, it would get messy. But it can be handled. I don't agree that he is a risk to the entire fable population. Discovering a talking pig doesn't automatically reveal that theres an entire society of fairytale creatures living amongst humans, and worst case scenario I erase their memories, no matter how expensive. Obviously that's a last resort and it shouldn't be a problem anyways, Colin stays inside and Toad is supposed to be getting his glamour. I would be more concerned about Bigby, Woody, and Jersey blowing everyones cover with their unglamoured pawn shop brawls.
As for the rules applying to everybody, you're right, I made a conscious decision to choose friendship over the rules. It's just more important to me.
According to Crane, memory-wiping is very expensive. But yes, that's all mostly true. Any pig found wandering the city would immediately be … morerounded up by Animal Control, though, and if he said anything, for any reason, in that situation it would be all over. An intelligent pig who would divulge anything under duress found by the government would crack Fabletown's anonymity wide open. And he could easily say something in front of the wrong person by accident, no matter what the circumstances.
It just isn't safe to have him walking the streets, and in the long run, confining him to Bigby's apartment is even worse than confining him to the farm, not to mention that the same rules apply to him as to everybody else. Ergo, he has to go to the farm. Toad is a different problem, he can theoretically afford to keep himself and his son glamoured, and if he chooses not to in the future then there's no excuse not to send him too.
You're not thinking it through. The mind-wipe spell worked at the police station because it was a public place clustered with officers who thought they were dealing with a person of interest in a single, ordinary murder investigation, and Crane only noticed and reacted as quickly as he did because the crime scene was on the Woodlands' doorstep and because it was Bigby that had been taken into custody. If Colin is discovered as a talking pig by anyone, he'll be shipped off to a research facility that may or may not be public and questioned and studied and experimented on with drugs, and it could take weeks before anyone in Fabletown realize that he was taken at all.
Colin is smart, but under that kind of treatment he'll eventually let it slip that there are more like him, and as soon as his hosts hear that, they'll start pumping him in earnest, up to and including torture, and he isn't trained to endure interrogation like that. Information about Fabletown will be in scientific and government correspondence all over the world long before Bigby can locate him and mount any sort of rescue or damage control. Best case scenario, Fabletown has to disappear, leaving New York and the farm and try to find new places to settle in a now overpopulated world, and some would resist and stay behind and risk being caught too. All because Bigby is too soft to do his job and force Colin to stay on the farm as opposed to crashing at his apartment for an extra while.
And yes, but Toad wasn't in glamour the first time we ran into him, and he had no excuse then except that he didn't want to spend the money. I find it highly likely that he'll be caught out of it again in the near future, and then it's off to the farm, no questions asked.
I'd also argue that it's less a conflict between friendship and rules than between friendship and Bigby's personal responsibility and integrity as the supposed lawkeeper of Fabletown and its security in general.
Like I said, it would get messy. But it can be handled. I don't agree that he is a risk to the entire fable population. Discovering a talkin… moreg pig doesn't automatically reveal that theres an entire society of fairytale creatures living amongst humans, and worst case scenario I erase their memories, no matter how expensive. Obviously that's a last resort and it shouldn't be a problem anyways, Colin stays inside and Toad is supposed to be getting his glamour. I would be more concerned about Bigby, Woody, and Jersey blowing everyones cover with their unglamoured pawn shop brawls.
As for the rules applying to everybody, you're right, I made a conscious decision to choose friendship over the rules. It's just more important to me.
I've thought it through. I don't consider all that happening very likely, and as I mentioned there are much more out in the open threats to the community. And again, it shouldn't come to that anyway since Colin doesn't just go around chatting people up in public and I'm trusting Toad to get a glamour. I don't think anyone is disputing that its a risk, its just one that some players are willing to take.
The way I play, Bigby isn't worried about how people see him as a lawman. He runs the show how he sees fit. So I typically judge each situation independently, as opposed to blindly enforcing every rule to the letter in the name of being fair.
You're not thinking it through. The mind-wipe spell worked at the police station because it was a public place clustered with officers who t… morehought they were dealing with a person of interest in a single, ordinary murder investigation, and Crane only noticed and reacted as quickly as he did because the crime scene was on the Woodlands' doorstep and because it was Bigby that had been taken into custody. If Colin is discovered as a talking pig by anyone, he'll be shipped off to a research facility that may or may not be public and questioned and studied and experimented on with drugs, and it could take weeks before anyone in Fabletown realize that he was taken at all.
Colin is smart, but under that kind of treatment he'll eventually let it slip that there are more like him, and as soon as his hosts hear that, they'll start pumping him in earnest, up to and including torture, and he isn't trained to endure interrogation like that. Information … [view original content]
How are you gonna pin Toad into getting a glamour than? The best way is to tell him that Colin is going to the Farm, because he won't have any choice except glamour and Farm. Also it would make the most logical sense considering the comics, since Colin wasn't at Bigby's apartment because the same lines are repeated that are in episode 1.
I've thought it through. I don't consider all that happening very likely, and as I mentioned there are much more out in the open threats to … morethe community. And again, it shouldn't come to that anyway since Colin doesn't just go around chatting people up in public and I'm trusting Toad to get a glamour. I don't think anyone is disputing that its a risk, its just one that some players are willing to take.
The way I play, Bigby isn't worried about how people see him as a lawman. He runs the show how he sees fit. So I typically judge each situation independently, as opposed to blindly enforcing every rule to the letter in the name of being fair.
Ah come on. If you see a talking pig in the street you'll think that you're drunk and leave it
besides he said that he won't be causing problems
it's not like YOU would send your friend to a prison if that was a real situation
If Toad doesn't get the glamour, he'll go to the farm, regardless of Colin. I told Toad Colin can stay because he stays out of sight. I'm not worried about the comics. Snow will probably ship them off while Bigby talks to the Crooked Man anyway.
How are you gonna pin Toad into getting a glamour than? The best way is to tell him that Colin is going to the Farm, because he won't have a… moreny choice except glamour and Farm. Also it would make the most logical sense considering the comics, since Colin wasn't at Bigby's apartment because the same lines are repeated that are in episode 1.
Playing as "hardass Bigby" in this game, do you think that Telltale has done a good enough job to present him in that way or do you think they need to go back and read the comics? I wonder this, because I heard he can be kind of a dick and you can be like that in the game, but is it in the same way?
That's a very reasonable way to think about it. Personally, I feel more compelled to stay faithful to the comic book canon than reassured th… moreat it exists regardless of what I do in the game. That means playing Bigby as close to his comics self as possible, and if not deliberately manipulating events then at least trying to enact them in ways that I can imagine would lead to the dynamics we see in the beginning of the comic books. To me, the hardass Bigby I've been reading about for years is just much more authentic and interesting than any mix of fuzzy do-good impulses I might indulge by handing out breaks and favors at every opportunity.
That's not what I meant. I meant convincing him to get a glamour, which you can't fully do if Colin doesn't go to the Farm. Toad set rules for TJ, but doesn't obey the rules he implemented. By going by the rules, while secretly knowing Colin will return, Bigby is in full position to convince Toad to get a glamour. If Toad decides to go against better judgment he will have only himself to blame, because he won't be in a position to argue.
If Toad doesn't get the glamour, he'll go to the farm, regardless of Colin. I told Toad Colin can stay because he stays out of sight. I'm not worried about the comics. Snow will probably ship them off while Bigby talks to the Crooked Man anyway.
IDK us New Yorkers (well NYC isn't, have not heard about it in Nassau or Suffolk County either) are not use to having pet pigs, plus I'm sure someone would scoop Colin up for dinner or to serve to customers.
I want the community to stay together as much as possible. If any mundies see Colin, he's a pig, its okay. Toad has one more chance, and if … moreanyone sees him I'll wipe their memory and ship him off. I admit it would get messy, but I don't consider it a risk to all fablekind quite yet.
I know what you meant, I'm saying I don't care about Toads opinion on the Colin situation. If he doesn't get the glamour, he'll go away, whether he argues or not. I don't need to coax him into it.
That's not what I meant. I meant convincing him to get a glamour, which you can't fully do if Colin doesn't go to the Farm. Toad set rules f… moreor TJ, but doesn't obey the rules he implemented. By going by the rules, while secretly knowing Colin will return, Bigby is in full position to convince Toad to get a glamour. If Toad decides to go against better judgment he will have only himself to blame, because he won't be in a position to argue.
That's hard to say. They've changed his character significantly to make him more approachable and less controversial in the game, he's softer and more emotional, and seems more inexperienced and less confident no matter how you play him, and besides that his basic priorities just aren't the same, with the exception of putting Snow first if you play him that way. It feels like they've just taken your average grizzled-but-somehow-still--a-little-naive anti-hero detective archetypes and given them Bigby's clothes and circumstances, and some of his powers, without really caring about the subtleties and depth of his original character.
You can get closer to the spirit of him by being quiet when there's nothing constructive to say or do and being unapologetically ruthless and merciless when the situation calls for it, while also not acting impulsively. He'll never sound or act half as confident and on top of things as he does in the comics, though, and he's nowhere near as capable either. It's a mixed bag.
Playing as "hardass Bigby" in this game, do you think that Telltale has done a good enough job to present him in that way or do you think th… moreey need to go back and read the comics? I wonder this, because I heard he can be kind of a dick and you can be like that in the game, but is it in the same way?
It's not very likely, but it's a significant risk in allowing Colin to stay in a highly populated New York, and if he is discovered as a talking, intelligent animal then the rest really is only a matter of time. I don't know why you think Colin is particularly discreet, he's a nice guy and all, but I've never seen him display anything even resembling impulse control, he whines constantly whether it earns him any favors or not, and talks thoughtlessly all the time.
You have to remember that he's used to being surrounded by other fables who wouldn't think twice about hearing him talk. He wouldn't run his mouth to everyone and anyone about Fabletown, no, but he could easily say something without thinking or by accident, and no scientist or government official in the world would have any compunctions about coaxing information out of a pig by any means necessary as soon as they got their hands on him.
There's also a difference between "blindly enforcing every rule to the letter" and doing your job by acting in the actual best interests of the community. Your Bigby may be a sensitive guy who tries to solve each situation separately and with the best intentions, but Fabletown is still all the more likely to collapse around him because he's picking and choosing which rules to follow and enforce based on his own attachments and convenience, and doesn't take the risks and consequences very seriously.
I've thought it through. I don't consider all that happening very likely, and as I mentioned there are much more out in the open threats to … morethe community. And again, it shouldn't come to that anyway since Colin doesn't just go around chatting people up in public and I'm trusting Toad to get a glamour. I don't think anyone is disputing that its a risk, its just one that some players are willing to take.
The way I play, Bigby isn't worried about how people see him as a lawman. He runs the show how he sees fit. So I typically judge each situation independently, as opposed to blindly enforcing every rule to the letter in the name of being fair.
That would be an actual argument if new yorkers couldn't tell when they're sober. The farm isn't a prison, it's a huge and beautiful and very comfortable place to live without endangering your community. If my friend could inadvertently ruin my life and the lives of everybody I cared about just by hanging around, and in fact only hung around because he was bored, then yes, I'd most definitely send him away. If I was a cop with a huge family to support and an old pal wanted to hide his drugs in my apartment, I'd turn him down too.
Ah come on. If you see a talking pig in the street you'll think that you're drunk and leave it
besides he said that he won't be causing problems
it's not like YOU would send your friend to a prison if that was a real situation
The way I understand it, Colin doesn't go out much. He has permission to stick around Bigby's apartment, not roam the streets of New York City. There is a huge amount of middle ground between letting him stay at Bigby's in lieu of the farm, and letting him loose in The City. It isn't so much about sensitivity as it is picking my battles. Due to the reasons given, I don't consider your scenario a threat. My worries are placed elsewhere.
It's not very likely, but it's a significant risk in allowing Colin to stay in a highly populated New York, and if he is discovered as a tal… moreking, intelligent animal then the rest really is only a matter of time. I don't know why you think Colin is particularly discreet, he's a nice guy and all, but I've never seen him display anything even resembling impulse control, he whines constantly whether it earns him any favors or not, and talks thoughtlessly all the time.
You have to remember that he's used to being surrounded by other fables who wouldn't think twice about hearing him talk. He wouldn't run his mouth to everyone and anyone about Fabletown, no, but he could easily say something without thinking or by accident, and no scientist or government official in the world would have any compunctions about coaxing information out of a pig by any means necessary as soon as they got their hands on him.
There's also a difference between "blind… [view original content]
When Bigby returns to his apartment in episode 1, there's a box of Chinese food on his table that he didn't order, and Colin is gone again when Bigby wakes up from his nap. It's pretty clear that he does in fact go out, and again, to him, there wouldn't be much point in escaping the farm if he was going to let himself be confined to one, or even a few apartments. He also has to avoid Snow, Crane and Grimble, and all the fables who would turn him in to them, as they would all happily send him back, so it's not even likely that he sticks around the Woodlands complex. Fabletown itself isn't a single enclosed neighborhood either, the buildings they own are several blocks apart and mundies walk freely around and between them.
The way I understand it, Colin doesn't go out much. He has permission to stick around Bigby's apartment, not roam the streets of New York Ci… morety. There is a huge amount of middle ground between letting him stay at Bigby's in lieu of the farm, and letting him loose in The City. It isn't so much about sensitivity as it is picking my battles. Due to the reasons given, I don't consider your scenario a threat. My worries are placed elsewhere.
It's better to be safe than sorry. And you still don't understand what I'm saying. Toad can get a glamour which will keep him safe from mundies, Colin can't and is known to be a pain in the ass when you least want it, remaining at Bigby's is one of them, he will return anyway and when you send him to the Farm you give an indication that you know he'll return.
The way I understand it, Colin doesn't go out much. He has permission to stick around Bigby's apartment, not roam the streets of New York Ci… morety. There is a huge amount of middle ground between letting him stay at Bigby's in lieu of the farm, and letting him loose in The City. It isn't so much about sensitivity as it is picking my battles. Due to the reasons given, I don't consider your scenario a threat. My worries are placed elsewhere.
I wasn't aware of that when I made the decision, but I'm simply not worried about it. When I justified Colin staying to Toad, Bigby says Colin stays out of sight from mundies. I obviously expect Bigby to set some ground rules, and if he gets turned in by a fable, well then the gig is up, off to the farm with him.
When Bigby returns to his apartment in episode 1, there's a box of Chinese food on his table that he didn't order, and Colin is gone again w… morehen Bigby wakes up from his nap. It's pretty clear that he does in fact go out, and again, to him, there wouldn't be much point in escaping the farm if he was going to let himself be confined to one, or even a few apartments. He also has to avoid Snow, Crane and Grimble, and all the fables who would turn him in to them, as they would all happily send him back, so it's not even likely that he sticks around the Woodlands complex. Fabletown itself isn't a single enclosed neighborhood either, the buildings they own are several blocks apart and mundies walk freely around and between them.
It's better to be safe than sorry. And you still don't understand what I'm saying. Toad can get a glamour which will keep him safe from mund… moreies, Colin can't and is known to be a pain in the ass when you least want it, remaining at Bigby's is one of them, he will return anyway and when you send him to the Farm you give an indication that you know he'll return.
Saying that Colin stays out of sight won't make Toad get a glamour, it will make him more inclined to be scared of his surroundings. He will know that Bigby deserves respect as the sheriff of Fabletown.
Saying that Colin stays out of sight won't make Toad get a glamour, it will make him more inclined to be scared of his surroundings. He will know that Bigby deserves respect as the sheriff of Fabletown.
He won't be aware, but scared. He won't get a glamour and he'll be avoiding Bigby and Snow and every other fable. And he'll think Bigby is a greedy asshole if you didn't send Colin to the Farm. The situation is a lot more complicated because you need to assess the situation. Colin to the Farm and money for Toad is the best possibility of Toad getting a glamour.
Fear makes people pay attention. I don't give a shit what Toad thinks about it, so that isn't a problem. He has one last chance to get a glamour, and if he doesn't he goes away. I did give him the money, so it isn't complicated at all.
He won't be aware, but scared. He won't get a glamour and he'll be avoiding Bigby and Snow and every other fable. And he'll think Bigby is a… more greedy asshole if you didn't send Colin to the Farm. The situation is a lot more complicated because you need to assess the situation. Colin to the Farm and money for Toad is the best possibility of Toad getting a glamour.
"The farm isn't a prison" "beautiful and comfortable place to live"
Well that's what Reggie said about carver's camp AND NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.
It doesn't matter how beautiful and comfortable it is, all non-human fables sees it as a prison that's why they don't wanna get back.
And I agree with what you said about sending your friend to the prison but those are totally different situations. Besides we collected a lot of money during the investigation, TellTale should give us the option to give colin some of it just like toad so everyone can get a glamour and live happily(remember that bigby owes him for that house of hay he destroyed at the homelands)... but I really doubt we'll get a happy ending
That would be an actual argument if new yorkers couldn't tell when they're sober. The farm isn't a prison, it's a huge and beautiful and ver… morey comfortable place to live without endangering your community. If my friend could inadvertently ruin my life and the lives of everybody I cared about just by hanging around, and in fact only hung around because he was bored, then yes, I'd most definitely send him away. If I was a cop with a huge family to support and an old pal wanted to hide his drugs in my apartment, I'd turn him down too.
Except Toad is arbitrary from what we already know. Knowledge that someone else was sent to the Farm that got breaks and getting the money to get a glamour would make him feel like being on thin ice with Bigby lending him a hand.
Fear makes people pay attention. I don't give a shit what Toad thinks about it, so that isn't a problem. He has one last chance to get a glamour, and if he doesn't he goes away. I did give him the money, so it isn't complicated at all.
Fear makes people pay attention. I don't give a shit what Toad thinks about it, so that isn't a problem. He has one last chance to get a glamour, and if he doesn't he goes away. I did give him the money, so it isn't complicated at all.
I have a strong feeling it depends on the episode, can't say others have that feeling though. If you say Toad is going to the Farm and he has the money he'll get the glamour, if you tell him Colin is going to the Farm and give him money he'll want the glamour more than fixing his car, if you tell Toad that Colin is staying he most likely won't get a glamour.
Comments
I see, apologies. I didn't mean to jump the gun.
I realize that, I'm just saying from when they moved to the Bronx, when was the glamour rules implemented? Because from the onset, the animals would have as much of a right to glamour as two legged non humans, no?
Most likely, being able to pay a witch to make you look human just started out as one of the loopholes when New Amsterdam grew so big and busy that keeping animal fables unnoticed became impossible and they had to establish the farm, and it's just been the preferred method ever since. That was in the 1600s, Gren and the trolls would have been very effective as workers and laborers or mercenaries, which might have earned them enough money to buy a starting glamour. How toad started out is anyone's guess. Fishing, maybe? And if anything, Jersey started out financed by the Crooked Man as a henchman.
Don't forget that it was before Bigby came to Fabletown from Romania.
True.
I have mixed feelings about her. For the most part, I do like her, but she can tick me off on occasion. I think she's a good person and she means well, but it doesn't feel like she really respects Bigby, yet she expects him to respect her. I would like to see their romance blossom though. I look forward to that. She probably won't be so cold once the sparks fly between them.
I think we agree on most things then. I don't think that I would have let Toad stay if I wasn't able to give him money for the glamour, especially because I told him about a half dozen times that he had to get one. It did get tiring having to get on his case every time I ran into him. I'll admit that my reasoning behind Colin is definitely selfish and sentimental in nature. I acknowledge that and I'm not making excuses for it. He his Bigby's friend and as long as he lays low and stays in the Woodlands, then I won't send him back to the Farm. If he were to start leaving the apartment, then I would have a problem with it. As far as Snow goes, I think she has a lot of potential as a leader, but I dislike her arrogance. She was a glorified secretary who literally JUST came into a position of power. She ignored the pleas of poorer Fables for a long time as secretary. She doesn't get to be self-righteous towards Bigby, in my opinion. She needs to respect that he's held his position for a lot longer than she's held her's. I just think that she needs to be put in her place a bit and needs some humility. I do like her for the most part. I hope that she becomes a fairer, better leader as time goes on.
Well, I have a couple playthroughs, so I don't really rush at all. I love the game and I like seeing the different outcomes. I'm talking about my main/canon playthrough. I didn't rush it. I made a decision based on the information I had. I wanted an opportunity to talk to Holly alone. I feel that because Bigby is the Sheriff he should handle the investigation. I also felt that Snow was in danger and I wanted to protect her. The Tweedles are known to go to the Trip Trap on occasion and I didn't want to unnecessarily put her in a precarious situation. I understand your point about her being safe with Bigby and I did do a playthrough where I brought her along. Ultimately, it doesn't make a difference in the game. The only difference I did notice was Snow's arrogance and hostility when she doesn't get her way. I didn't like that and it's one of the issues I have with her personality now. I feel like she doesn't respect Bigby's office. She wants to be Mayor, Assistant to the Mayor, Sheriff, Detective, and Secretary all at once, but those aren't all her jobs. I think she should focus on working at the Business Office. The Fables are always talking about how they have to wait in line there and that they never get to speak with anyone at the Business Office. If Snow were more focused on her work and less on Bigby's maybe that wouldn't be the case.
And the sparks almost did fly, but Colin couldn't keep his snout shut. It looked like Snow was more pissed at it more than Bigby, which could explain what he said to Snow in the comics after their memory blockout and that's when she was really pissed at Bigby.
Actually Snow held her job longer than Bigby since Crane was constantly embezzling funds to play out his sick fantasies. Snow's comments can get confusing. She wants everyone to see Bigby the way she sees Bigby.
Snow White is most certainly not a glorified secretary. She's one of Fabletown's original founders from way before Bigby joined up because she asked him to, and almost single-handedly ran everything more or less smoothly for 400 years because both of her superiors were borderline incompetent. She might not have much experience with being openly in charge of things and giving direct orders and expect to be obeyed, and might be a bit rattled over Crane's perving and criminal behavior and Lilly's death while disguised as her right now, but she's a competent administrator who knows what Fabletown needs to stay afloat better than anyone. She's well within her rights ordering Bigby around without apology, being his direct superior now. That doesn't mean he can't stand up to her if he knows she's wrong, but she isn't required to bow and scrape to get him to do his damn job, or even stick her nose in when she feels it's necessary, and for their working relationship to function in the future, Bigby needs to deal with that as much as she does.
Now she's "come into power" exactly when the entire community is about to blow sky-high, and her first reaction is to try to reel things in and let them stabilize, or at the very least try not to escalate the situation, which is, let's be honest, a WAY safer and more logical approach in the long run compared to Bigby's vague idea of tracking down the entire criminal underground and having a show down, hoping he'll come out on top and maybe find out what the hell is up with those murders along the way, rather than, say, walk into a trap and get killed, leaving the Crooked Man to reign freely over Fabletown without anyone to defend or back Snow up.
Now I get it. The reason choosing to let Snow with you should be the fact that Crane acts very suspiciously if you mention trackmarks. With Crane's suspicious actions you can't trust him, can you? You are right on Snow wanting to do too much, she hides her reasons though. The only logical reason being the natural bond between Snow and Bigby, Snow doesn't know the true meaning yet. Snow should hire her own assistant, which she probably will in the next episode.
I would not be a good sheriff in real life. I acknowledge that I'm probably not a good sheriff in-game. Rather, I just try to be a "nice guy", regardless of whether than means being a good sheriff or not.
A huge part of that comes from the fact that I'm aware I'm playing a Telltale Game, and one that happens to be a prequel. Thus, the main consequences of my actions are the reactions and relationships I build with the characters involved, not any long-term ramifications on the system of Fabletown. It may be true that sending Toad on his way could, in-universe, put Fabletown at risk, but that decision doesn't actually change the status of Fabletown in, say, the comics, and I doubt it'll have much impact within the scope of the game, either. Because of this, I mainly base my decisions on the characters involved and how they view Bigby as a result. I value Toad's and Colin's opinions of Bigby over Snow's, and thus I let them stay despite Snow's wishes.
Again, I realize this would be a terrible way to run things were it an actual system of law, but that's not how I go about playing the game.
That's a very reasonable way to think about it. Personally, I feel more compelled to stay faithful to the comic book canon than reassured that it exists regardless of what I do in the game. That means playing Bigby as close to his comics self as possible, and if not deliberately manipulating events then at least trying to enact them in ways that I can imagine would lead to the dynamics we see in the beginning of the comic books. To me, the hardass Bigby I've been reading about for years is just much more authentic and interesting than any mix of fuzzy do-good impulses I might indulge by handing out breaks and favors at every opportunity.
She`ll have an assistant too.
Like I said, it would get messy. But it can be handled. I don't agree that he is a risk to the entire fable population. Discovering a talking pig doesn't automatically reveal that theres an entire society of fairytale creatures living amongst humans, and worst case scenario I erase their memories, no matter how expensive. Obviously that's a last resort and it shouldn't be a problem anyways, Colin stays inside and Toad is supposed to be getting his glamour. I would be more concerned about Bigby, Woody, and Jersey blowing everyones cover with their unglamoured pawn shop brawls.
As for the rules applying to everybody, you're right, I made a conscious decision to choose friendship over the rules. It's just more important to me.
You're not thinking it through. The mind-wipe spell worked at the police station because it was a public place clustered with officers who thought they were dealing with a person of interest in a single, ordinary murder investigation, and Crane only noticed and reacted as quickly as he did because the crime scene was on the Woodlands' doorstep and because it was Bigby that had been taken into custody. If Colin is discovered as a talking pig by anyone, he'll be shipped off to a research facility that may or may not be public and questioned and studied and experimented on with drugs, and it could take weeks before anyone in Fabletown realize that he was taken at all.
Colin is smart, but under that kind of treatment he'll eventually let it slip that there are more like him, and as soon as his hosts hear that, they'll start pumping him in earnest, up to and including torture, and he isn't trained to endure interrogation like that. Information about Fabletown will be in scientific and government correspondence all over the world long before Bigby can locate him and mount any sort of rescue or damage control. Best case scenario, Fabletown has to disappear, leaving New York and the farm and try to find new places to settle in a now overpopulated world, and some would resist and stay behind and risk being caught too. All because Bigby is too soft to do his job and force Colin to stay on the farm as opposed to crashing at his apartment for an extra while.
And yes, but Toad wasn't in glamour the first time we ran into him, and he had no excuse then except that he didn't want to spend the money. I find it highly likely that he'll be caught out of it again in the near future, and then it's off to the farm, no questions asked.
I'd also argue that it's less a conflict between friendship and rules than between friendship and Bigby's personal responsibility and integrity as the supposed lawkeeper of Fabletown and its security in general.
I've thought it through. I don't consider all that happening very likely, and as I mentioned there are much more out in the open threats to the community. And again, it shouldn't come to that anyway since Colin doesn't just go around chatting people up in public and I'm trusting Toad to get a glamour. I don't think anyone is disputing that its a risk, its just one that some players are willing to take.
The way I play, Bigby isn't worried about how people see him as a lawman. He runs the show how he sees fit. So I typically judge each situation independently, as opposed to blindly enforcing every rule to the letter in the name of being fair.
How are you gonna pin Toad into getting a glamour than? The best way is to tell him that Colin is going to the Farm, because he won't have any choice except glamour and Farm. Also it would make the most logical sense considering the comics, since Colin wasn't at Bigby's apartment because the same lines are repeated that are in episode 1.
Ah come on. If you see a talking pig in the street you'll think that you're drunk and leave it
besides he said that he won't be causing problems
it's not like YOU would send your friend to a prison if that was a real situation
If Toad doesn't get the glamour, he'll go to the farm, regardless of Colin. I told Toad Colin can stay because he stays out of sight. I'm not worried about the comics. Snow will probably ship them off while Bigby talks to the Crooked Man anyway.
Playing as "hardass Bigby" in this game, do you think that Telltale has done a good enough job to present him in that way or do you think they need to go back and read the comics? I wonder this, because I heard he can be kind of a dick and you can be like that in the game, but is it in the same way?
That's not what I meant. I meant convincing him to get a glamour, which you can't fully do if Colin doesn't go to the Farm. Toad set rules for TJ, but doesn't obey the rules he implemented. By going by the rules, while secretly knowing Colin will return, Bigby is in full position to convince Toad to get a glamour. If Toad decides to go against better judgment he will have only himself to blame, because he won't be in a position to argue.
IDK us New Yorkers (well NYC isn't, have not heard about it in Nassau or Suffolk County either) are not use to having pet pigs, plus I'm sure someone would scoop Colin up for dinner or to serve to customers.
I know what you meant, I'm saying I don't care about Toads opinion on the Colin situation. If he doesn't get the glamour, he'll go away, whether he argues or not. I don't need to coax him into it.
That's hard to say. They've changed his character significantly to make him more approachable and less controversial in the game, he's softer and more emotional, and seems more inexperienced and less confident no matter how you play him, and besides that his basic priorities just aren't the same, with the exception of putting Snow first if you play him that way. It feels like they've just taken your average grizzled-but-somehow-still--a-little-naive anti-hero detective archetypes and given them Bigby's clothes and circumstances, and some of his powers, without really caring about the subtleties and depth of his original character.
You can get closer to the spirit of him by being quiet when there's nothing constructive to say or do and being unapologetically ruthless and merciless when the situation calls for it, while also not acting impulsively. He'll never sound or act half as confident and on top of things as he does in the comics, though, and he's nowhere near as capable either. It's a mixed bag.
It's not very likely, but it's a significant risk in allowing Colin to stay in a highly populated New York, and if he is discovered as a talking, intelligent animal then the rest really is only a matter of time. I don't know why you think Colin is particularly discreet, he's a nice guy and all, but I've never seen him display anything even resembling impulse control, he whines constantly whether it earns him any favors or not, and talks thoughtlessly all the time.
You have to remember that he's used to being surrounded by other fables who wouldn't think twice about hearing him talk. He wouldn't run his mouth to everyone and anyone about Fabletown, no, but he could easily say something without thinking or by accident, and no scientist or government official in the world would have any compunctions about coaxing information out of a pig by any means necessary as soon as they got their hands on him.
There's also a difference between "blindly enforcing every rule to the letter" and doing your job by acting in the actual best interests of the community. Your Bigby may be a sensitive guy who tries to solve each situation separately and with the best intentions, but Fabletown is still all the more likely to collapse around him because he's picking and choosing which rules to follow and enforce based on his own attachments and convenience, and doesn't take the risks and consequences very seriously.
That would be an actual argument if new yorkers couldn't tell when they're sober. The farm isn't a prison, it's a huge and beautiful and very comfortable place to live without endangering your community. If my friend could inadvertently ruin my life and the lives of everybody I cared about just by hanging around, and in fact only hung around because he was bored, then yes, I'd most definitely send him away. If I was a cop with a huge family to support and an old pal wanted to hide his drugs in my apartment, I'd turn him down too.
The way I understand it, Colin doesn't go out much. He has permission to stick around Bigby's apartment, not roam the streets of New York City. There is a huge amount of middle ground between letting him stay at Bigby's in lieu of the farm, and letting him loose in The City. It isn't so much about sensitivity as it is picking my battles. Due to the reasons given, I don't consider your scenario a threat. My worries are placed elsewhere.
When Bigby returns to his apartment in episode 1, there's a box of Chinese food on his table that he didn't order, and Colin is gone again when Bigby wakes up from his nap. It's pretty clear that he does in fact go out, and again, to him, there wouldn't be much point in escaping the farm if he was going to let himself be confined to one, or even a few apartments. He also has to avoid Snow, Crane and Grimble, and all the fables who would turn him in to them, as they would all happily send him back, so it's not even likely that he sticks around the Woodlands complex. Fabletown itself isn't a single enclosed neighborhood either, the buildings they own are several blocks apart and mundies walk freely around and between them.
It's better to be safe than sorry. And you still don't understand what I'm saying. Toad can get a glamour which will keep him safe from mundies, Colin can't and is known to be a pain in the ass when you least want it, remaining at Bigby's is one of them, he will return anyway and when you send him to the Farm you give an indication that you know he'll return.
I wasn't aware of that when I made the decision, but I'm simply not worried about it. When I justified Colin staying to Toad, Bigby says Colin stays out of sight from mundies. I obviously expect Bigby to set some ground rules, and if he gets turned in by a fable, well then the gig is up, off to the farm with him.
I'm pretty positive I get what you're saying. I understand everything you just said, and I stand by my decision.
Saying that Colin stays out of sight won't make Toad get a glamour, it will make him more inclined to be scared of his surroundings. He will know that Bigby deserves respect as the sheriff of Fabletown.
Toad will get a glamour because if he doesn't, he'll go to the farm. Good, he should be more aware of his surroundings.
He won't be aware, but scared. He won't get a glamour and he'll be avoiding Bigby and Snow and every other fable. And he'll think Bigby is a greedy asshole if you didn't send Colin to the Farm. The situation is a lot more complicated because you need to assess the situation. Colin to the Farm and money for Toad is the best possibility of Toad getting a glamour.
Fear makes people pay attention. I don't give a shit what Toad thinks about it, so that isn't a problem. He has one last chance to get a glamour, and if he doesn't he goes away. I did give him the money, so it isn't complicated at all.
"The farm isn't a prison" "beautiful and comfortable place to live"
Well that's what Reggie said about carver's camp AND NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.
It doesn't matter how beautiful and comfortable it is, all non-human fables sees it as a prison that's why they don't wanna get back.
And I agree with what you said about sending your friend to the prison but those are totally different situations. Besides we collected a lot of money during the investigation, TellTale should give us the option to give colin some of it just like toad so everyone can get a glamour and live happily(remember that bigby owes him for that house of hay he destroyed at the homelands)... but I really doubt we'll get a happy ending
Except Toad is arbitrary from what we already know. Knowledge that someone else was sent to the Farm that got breaks and getting the money to get a glamour would make him feel like being on thin ice with Bigby lending him a hand.
Do you think he'll actually do it? Im dying to see what a glamoured Toad and TJ look like.
I have a strong feeling it depends on the episode, can't say others have that feeling though. If you say Toad is going to the Farm and he has the money he'll get the glamour, if you tell him Colin is going to the Farm and give him money he'll want the glamour more than fixing his car, if you tell Toad that Colin is staying he most likely won't get a glamour.