Yes, There are some distasteful and questionable products that people design, write, and direct. However, they are still within their rights to develop those types of projects no matter how questionable or disgusting we find it. For instance, it's perfectly legal for someone to write a book on how to hack a computer or software files (I know this because I've seen numerous of these books at Barnes & Nobles and on Amazon). Technically that falls under freedom of expression and the author is allowed to write and publish it, however, if someone were to actually do that and get caught they would get fined along with prison time.
I just think some people are blowing the Noah movie out of proportion simply because it doesn't follow the Bible exactly, which you honestly can't expect it to do, at least not to a T. Like I've said multiple times, I've read books, seen movies, and played games that flat out degrade Christianity and God that would most likely make your jaw drop if you've read/seen or played them. I'm talking about the main protagonists killing God at the end, siding and aiding Lucifer, and starting wars in Heaven. And these series have existed since the early and mid 80s.
The best thing we can do if something offends or disgusts us is simply pay it no mind and roll our eyes like you said, which I agree with you on.
I don't think anyone actually thinks that there should be any sort of legal restriction behind making these movies (can't honestly tell if y… moreou were implying this or not). It's just the fact that these projects even get taken up and supported that bothers certain people. Of course everyone has freedom of expression, but I'm sure you would agree that there are some distasteful products of this. I think people of faith only wish that those at Hollywood would take more care in expressing what certain audiences may consider distasteful.
I personally just roll my eyes and move on with my life, but I see why some people have a serious issue. The only movie with religious connotations that legitimately pissed me off was "The Invention of Lying". I seriously couldn't stand that..
I know, I still cannot fathom how he could say those things and truly believe them, and think that it was ok to say such things. He can say whatever he wants, but I can't help but be shocked. I'd imagine it is very difficult to stick to your values, stay in reality, and not sell your soul for fame and fortune in Hollywood. There aren't many celebrities that I can name that I believe are honest to God good people. But it is still no excuse for the behavior that is allowed, encouraged, and bred there.
It's because we have no clear leader against theses very real threats(ISIS, and other radical Islam terrorists), Obama as well as others still go on about how we need to negotiate with these people, and understand where they're coming from, whilst these very same people are beheading/raping/torturing innocents in the name of their god. Obama has failed to take action when we've needed it most, he is too complacent and no one is holding him accountable for his apathy. Too many Americans are concerned with Social Justice, such as hurting someone's feelings by not using the politically correct term whilst this pure barbarism goes on that will soon be at our doorstep if they aren't stopped. Too many people are truly blind to what is happening around them.
It was awful. Apparently, there is a 13th apostle, who is a woman, and Jesus told Judas to betray him, and wanted it to happen. There are many other flaws, but those are the most condemnable imo.
I have noticed that pattern as well, I think it may have to do with how Jesus is often depicted on the cross; sickly, thin, and pale etc. I don't really like it either.
I to was hoping they'd stay truer to Scripture.
But after hearing this, I will not go see it.
And I did Google the subject you mentioned, … moreand I was absolutely appalled at what I read.
To describe Moses as Schizophrenic, a man who in essence; founded Judaism, and who is held in high regard by the world's three major religions, is completely despicable.
Even if a person is not religious, they should at least show respect for those of us that are.
And I'm surprised to hear that Islam is real popular in Hollywood.
Considering the state of the country, and the constant news about terrorist groups.
And about the film: "The Son Of God," I never went to go see it.
But I'm not surprised to hear that it was very inaccurate.
On a personal note, and again this is purely personal, the biggest objection I have to a lot of Jesus films, is the way Jesus is made up.
In so many of them, Jesus looks horribly thin; almost emaciated.
Even if Je… [view original content]
About Jesus, personally; when I read the Gospels, the mental image I get, is not the one that is depicted in art; that of a frail looking man.
The Gospels are littered with Jesus performing great and dynamic acts.
For example, in John chapter 3, Jesus drove merchants who were conducting business in the temple.
He also did so on a later occasion, according to Mathew chapter 21.
Those personally don't sound like the actions of physically frail man.
Nor one who was of a passive nature, ( I only mention that, cause I've actually heard some say that about Jesus.)
Also, Jesus walked literally hundreds of miles during three-and-a-half-year ministry, many of the towns in Judea being days apart.
In fact, I read a report that stated that the average man in 1st century Palestine, could walk up to 20 miles a day.
Doesn't sound like something a frail person would be able to do.
These two examples of the things Jesus did during his time on earth, and others like them, convince me that he was not a frail, nor passive man.
But rather a strong, vigorous and dynamic man.
A man who took charge.
I know, I still cannot fathom how he could say those things and truly believe them, and think that it was ok to say such things. He can say … morewhatever he wants, but I can't help but be shocked. I'd imagine it is very difficult to stick to your values, stay in reality, and not sell your soul for fame and fortune in Hollywood. There aren't many celebrities that I can name that I believe are honest to God good people. But it is still no excuse for the behavior that is allowed, encouraged, and bred there.
It's because we have no clear leader against theses very real threats(ISIS, and other radical Islam terrorists), Obama as well as others still go on about how we need to negotiate with these people, and understand where they're coming from, whilst these very same people are beheading/raping/torturing innocents in the name of their god. Obama has failed to take action when we've needed it most, he is too complacent and no one is holding him acco… [view original content]
Agreed. Unfortunately, many people look to art and sculptures which depict Jesus very differently than how he is in the actual scripture. And I must say, you really know your scripture! Do you study the Bible professionally?
About Jesus, personally; when I read the Gospels, the mental image I get, is not the one that is depicted in art; that of a frail looking ma… moren.
The Gospels are littered with Jesus performing great and dynamic acts.
For example, in John chapter 3, Jesus drove merchants who were conducting business in the temple.
He also did so on a later occasion, according to Mathew chapter 21.
Those personally don't sound like the actions of physically frail man.
Nor one who was of a passive nature, ( I only mention that, cause I've actually heard some say that about Jesus.)
Also, Jesus walked literally hundreds of miles during three-and-a-half-year ministry, many of the towns in Judea being days apart.
In fact, I read a report that stated that the average man in 1st century Palestine, could walk up to 20 miles a day.
Doesn't sound like something a frail person would be able to do.
These two examples of the things Jesus did during his time on e… [view original content]
Ohhhhh, THAT'S why you have such an issue with my homosexuality.
Oh, well that actually makes me feel a lot better. I assumed you were having some pure political moral difference, but the fact that you're a Bible Basher has saved me lots of time, as your opinion shan't ever change. You've saved me lot's of time worrying about your views, this is a weight off my shoulders. Thank you Tinni. Or rather, thank you Jesus.
"Noah" was not only terrible as a movie, it was also just down right insulting to the Bible and Christians. I refused to see it after readin… moreg a review about it. I am appalled that Hollywood thinks that it is ok to desecrate such a universally significant book, that it is ok to take pieces from the Bible, twist it into something nearly unrecognizable for the sake of making money. I understand that not everyone is a Christian, and that some see the Bible as fiction, but it isn't fiction to a great number of us, and the fact that this was even allowed to become a movie..I am beyond angry about it. And now it's happening again with the movie "Exodus", where the man playing Moses isn't even Jewish, who also believes that Moses was schizophrenic and barbaric, which he learned from reading the freaking Quran, and he hasn't even read the Bible. I'm just disgusted with Hollywood at this point.
A plethora of actors and actresses who donate to charity, help and support people, and try to make the world a better place are suddenly not honest or good people because they share a different belief, or might possibly belong to a different religion? Couldn't your argument be considered trying to be politically correct because you're debating about people who are saying things regarding a religion that might have offended you, when that really wasn't their intent? I mean, they were after all, just stating their opinion without the government censoring what they should or shouldn't be trying to say, right?
And what threats are you talking about exactly? Because Christianity isn't 100% a benevolent religion either. In some countries of Africa, you have some Christians killing people in the name of their religion as well. This isn't something that only some Islamic people do. I fail to see what Obama has to do with Hollywood making movies loosely based off the Bible, as well as actors saying what they are free to say. This has been going on looooong before most of the world population even knew Obama existed. People should be free to question things, especially when it comes to religion, because America isn't a Christian nation. We are not a theology, nor do we acknowledge one religion as superior over another. Directors can take stories from the Bible and develop/produce them as movies as they see fit regardless if the stories or characters follow the book to a T. If you don't like it, then don't go see it. But don't act like they shouldn't have had the right to make them, as well as saying that they're suddenly not good people. Like I've said before, we do the same thing to other religions and vice versa, so why should Christianity be specifically barred from the same things as well as criticism?
And this isn't something that only happens in the US, many countries around the world partake in the same things when it comes to producing movies based off religious scriptures and not fully following them scripture by scripture.
I know, I still cannot fathom how he could say those things and truly believe them, and think that it was ok to say such things. He can say … morewhatever he wants, but I can't help but be shocked. I'd imagine it is very difficult to stick to your values, stay in reality, and not sell your soul for fame and fortune in Hollywood. There aren't many celebrities that I can name that I believe are honest to God good people. But it is still no excuse for the behavior that is allowed, encouraged, and bred there.
It's because we have no clear leader against theses very real threats(ISIS, and other radical Islam terrorists), Obama as well as others still go on about how we need to negotiate with these people, and understand where they're coming from, whilst these very same people are beheading/raping/torturing innocents in the name of their god. Obama has failed to take action when we've needed it most, he is too complacent and no one is holding him acco… [view original content]
I felt the same way about the first one, but I think they did a better job with the second... even though it is clearly stretched and embellished from what actually happened in the book. The only part of the 2nd movie that I really, really disliked, was the scene where the dwarves entered the lonely mountain to fight Smaug.
That's why I didn't like The Hobbit.
I felt the same way about the first one, but I think they did a better job with the second... e… moreven though it is clearly stretched and embellished from what actually happened in the book. The only part of the 2nd movie that I really, really disliked, was the scene where the dwarves entered the lonely mountain to fight Smaug.
No, I don't study it professionally.
As a teenager, I loved reading.
When I wasn't swimming, working out, going offroading, or fishing, I liked to read.
In school, I was a straight- A student.
English/language/literature were my best subjects.
And I was pretty good at history.
The only thing I struggled with was math.
One of the things I've been blessed with, is an excellent memory.
I can remember things from when I was a child, even things that my parents have forgotten.
That's why I can recall so many things I've learned over the years.
I'm not meaning to brag, just simply stating facts.
Agreed. Unfortunately, many people look to art and sculptures which depict Jesus very differently than how he is in the actual scripture. And I must say, you really know your scripture! Do you study the Bible professionally?
Literally nothing you can say will change their mind. Just let it go, and take harbour in the knowledge that there are fewer of them by the day due to conversion to either more liberal christian attitudes, or away from religion altogether.
A plethora of actors and actresses who donate to charity, help and support people, and try to make the world a better place are suddenly not… more honest or good people because they share a different belief, or might possibly belong to a different religion? Couldn't your argument be considered trying to be politically correct because you're debating about people who are saying things regarding a religion that might have offended you, when that really wasn't their intent? I mean, they were after all, just stating their opinion without the government censoring what they should or shouldn't be trying to say, right?
And what threats are you talking about exactly? Because Christianity isn't 100% a benevolent religion either. In some countries of Africa, you have some Christians killing people in the name of their religion as well. This isn't something that only some Islamic people do. I fail to see what Obama has to do with Hollywood making movies lo… [view original content]
Oh come on Flog. It's almost like you're implying that they can't think for themselves. I don't know a whole lot about Kenny/Lee, but he seems like a reasonable enough guy, and Tinni is easily one of the sharpest individuals I have met around here. I mean, that whole conversation you had with her over in the other thread should be enough to tell you that she has reasoning outside of just her religious beliefs. You can't just write off their opinions because they happen to be religious individuals. That's just lazy
Dude, they're fundamentalist Christians.
Literally nothing you can say will change their mind. Just let it go, and take harbour in the kn… moreowledge that there are fewer of them by the day due to conversion to either more liberal christian attitudes, or away from religion altogether.
What? I didn't say anything about them not being good and honest people because they weren't religious, or because they didn't practice the same religion as me. If you are referring to me saying "honest to God", that is just a figure of speech. Lots of religious and non-religious people use that particular phrasing in conversations. Please, don't put words in my mouth. Nor did I say they had to censor themselves, or that they should be punished for saying something that offended me. Though I don't support PC, I never said people weren't allowed to be offended by other people's words/actions. They are entitled to that right, and as am I. I never meant to imply that they shouldn't be able to make these kind of movies, all I meant is that I'm surprised that it was able to be made into a movie when they had to know they would be insulting a large amount of the people it was marketed and directed at. They can make those movies if they want to, but I can be upset about it if I want to, and express my dislike for it with other people if I want to.
Not replying to anything else, because you've missed the point entirely that I was making in my prior post, the second paragraph had absolutely nothing to do with my religion or Hollywood. I was talking about ISIS, and how America and Obama have failed to take a stand against them or eliminate them when they are a very real threat to our country. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.
A plethora of actors and actresses who donate to charity, help and support people, and try to make the world a better place are suddenly not… more honest or good people because they share a different belief, or might possibly belong to a different religion? Couldn't your argument be considered trying to be politically correct because you're debating about people who are saying things regarding a religion that might have offended you, when that really wasn't their intent? I mean, they were after all, just stating their opinion without the government censoring what they should or shouldn't be trying to say, right?
And what threats are you talking about exactly? Because Christianity isn't 100% a benevolent religion either. In some countries of Africa, you have some Christians killing people in the name of their religion as well. This isn't something that only some Islamic people do. I fail to see what Obama has to do with Hollywood making movies lo… [view original content]
Yes, There are some distasteful and questionable products that people design, write, and direct. However, they are still within their rights to develop those types of projects no matter how questionable or disgusting we find it. For instance, it's perfectly legal for someone to write a book on how to hack a computer or software files (I know this because I've seen numerous of these books at Barnes & Nobles and on Amazon). Technically that falls under freedom of expression and the author is allowed to write and publish it
As I said in my last post, no one is saying that there should be any legal restriction emplaced. I understand that these people are within their individual rights to produce these kinds of movies, even if they are offensive to certain groups of people.
I just think some people are blowing the Noah movie out of proportion simply because it doesn't follow the Bible exactly, which you honestly can't expect it to do, at least not to a T. Like I've said multiple times, I've read books, seen movies, and played games that flat out degrade Christianity and God that would most likely make your jaw drop if you've read/seen or played them. I'm talking about the main protagonists killing God at the end, siding and aiding Lucifer, and starting wars in Heaven. And these series have existed since the early and mid 80s.
So, you're saying that these people should not be unhappy with movies such as "Noah" simply because there are worse things out there, correct? Doesn't that seem a tad fallacious? I'm sure there are worse things out there that could possibly illicit a stronger outcry, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these people should therefore be more accepting of the lesser offense to them.
The best thing we can do if something offends or disgusts us is simply pay it no mind and roll our eyes like you said, which I agree with you on
The reason why I can understand them being more upset over the issue is the fact that us religious individuals are seemingly becoming more and more of a minority, and we're beginning to be looked down upon enough as it is without movies/media adding to the mentality vs religion. It's honestly very easy to get defensive about these days.
Yes, There are some distasteful and questionable products that people design, write, and direct. However, they are still within their rights… more to develop those types of projects no matter how questionable or disgusting we find it. For instance, it's perfectly legal for someone to write a book on how to hack a computer or software files (I know this because I've seen numerous of these books at Barnes & Nobles and on Amazon). Technically that falls under freedom of expression and the author is allowed to write and publish it, however, if someone were to actually do that and get caught they would get fined along with prison time.
I just think some people are blowing the Noah movie out of proportion simply because it doesn't follow the Bible exactly, which you honestly can't expect it to do, at least not to a T. Like I've said multiple times, I've read books, seen movies, and played games that flat out degrade Christianity and God that would… [view original content]
Flog, you have got to be one of the most self righteous and arrogant people I have ever met on these forums. I may have different beliefs and values than you, but I have never once called you names for that, or actively sought out your posts to spread negativity, or tried to start a fight. It seems that you are incapable of living and let live. I held my tongue the other times when you have been unnecessarily rude to me and to others for not agreeing with you, but I am tired of doing that. How close minded and insecure can you be if it bothers you so much when one person who disagrees with you is vocal about it? Just let it go for pete's sake. And you know what, I may not like you very much, but I still don't wish any bad upon you. God bless you Flog, I wish you nothing but the best.
Ohhhhh, THAT'S why you have such an issue with my homosexuality.
Oh, well that actually makes me feel a lot better. I assumed you were ha… moreving some pure political moral difference, but the fact that you're a Bible Basher has saved me lots of time, as your opinion shan't ever change. You've saved me lot's of time worrying about your views, this is a weight off my shoulders. Thank you Tinni. Or rather, thank you Jesus.
That's quite the advantage you have, I wish my memory was that efficient. I also excelled in History and English in school, but math was always my biggest struggle. You probably could study the Bible professionally if you ever wanted to.
No, I don't study it professionally.
As a teenager, I loved reading.
When I wasn't swimming, working out, going offroading, or fishing, I … moreliked to read.
In school, I was a straight- A student.
English/language/literature were my best subjects.
And I was pretty good at history.
The only thing I struggled with was math.
One of the things I've been blessed with, is an excellent memory.
I can remember things from when I was a child, even things that my parents have forgotten.
That's why I can recall so many things I've learned over the years.
I'm not meaning to brag, just simply stating facts.
Ohhhhh, THAT'S why you have such an issue with my homosexuality.
Oh, well that actually makes me feel a lot better. I assumed you were ha… moreving some pure political moral difference, but the fact that you're a Bible Basher has saved me lots of time, as your opinion shan't ever change. You've saved me lot's of time worrying about your views, this is a weight off my shoulders. Thank you Tinni. Or rather, thank you Jesus.
Oh come on Flog. It's almost like you're implying that they can't think for themselves. I don't know a whole lot about Kenny/Lee, but he see… morems like a reasonable enough guy, and Tinni is easily one of the sharpest individuals I have met around here. I mean, that whole conversation you had with her over in the other thread should be enough to tell you that she has reasoning outside of just her religious beliefs. You can't just write off their opinions because they happen to be religious individuals. That's just lazy
Really, Flog? Looks like you just came here to pick a fight.
You know it's possible for people to have different opinions than yours, right? And that's okay.
I can't let it go with issues like this because these kinds of views lead to people killing them fucking selves because they can't make themselves change, like I tried to do for years after my parents rejected me for being who I am.
I can accept people liking Troy or any other character I don't. That's cool. Because that like doesn't hurt people.
Flog, you have got to be one of the most self righteous and arrogant people I have ever met on these forums. I may have different beliefs an… mored values than you, but I have never once called you names for that, or actively sought out your posts to spread negativity, or tried to start a fight. It seems that you are incapable of living and let live. I held my tongue the other times when you have been unnecessarily rude to me and to others for not agreeing with you, but I am tired of doing that. How close minded and insecure can you be if it bothers you so much when one person who disagrees with you is vocal about it? Just let it go for pete's sake. And you know what, I may not like you very much, but I still don't wish any bad upon you. God bless you Flog, I wish you nothing but the best.
I'm not your parents, I am sorry that you had that experience with them, but that doesn't justify you harassing me for thinking differently than you. How am I hurting anyone by having a different opinion? I'm not going around saying "I hate homosexuals, homosexuals aren't human, and they deserve to die" etc. I said I don't agree with homosexuality and that's it. If you can't move on and live your life just because you can't stand that I don't support your lifestyle..well, I'm sorry, but that's just not my problem.
I can't let it go with issues like this because these kinds of views lead to people killing them fucking selves because they can't make them… moreselves change, like I tried to do for years after my parents rejected me for being who I am.
I can accept people liking Troy or any other character I don't. That's cool. Because that like doesn't hurt people.
The conversation where she told me I'm immoral for being homosexual?
Not, that showed me nothing outside of religious bias.
It's not b… moreecause they're religious. I'm religious.
It's because they're fundamentalists. Their opinions won't change. And if they do it certainly won't be from reading a forum message.
But if one day you choose to become a mum, that could very well be your kid. They may happen to be homosexual, and live in fear of being honest with you because you think their unchangable preferences are immoral.
Look, I know I get too emotionally involved at times, and I know I'm often rude. Particularly to you, because we fundamentally disagree on so many levels and I'm sorry for that.
Thinking homosexuality is wrong is exactly the kind of views that are damaging.
My parents didn't think I wasn't human. They didn't want me to die.
They thought homosexuality was immoral. They used to send me notes every months saying that they hoped I had reconsidered my 'sinful decision'. How could I possibly reconsider a decision I never made? That kind of stuff physically and mentally tortured me for years before my husband gave me the courage to cut contact.
I can't move on because I can't sit idly by while the beginnings of the same thing could be forming in your mind, which could cause your future child as much pain as it does to hundreds of millions across the earth.
Can you imagine how horrible it feels to have your parents disagree with who you are? It is painful. And that could hurt your future child, or if you implant your own views into your children then it could hurt theirs.
I just can't let that emotional torture occur. That's why I can't let go on this like I can with other things.
I'm not your parents, I am sorry that you had that experience with them, but that doesn't justify you harassing me for thinking differently … morethan you. How am I hurting anyone by having a different opinion? I'm not going around saying "I hate homosexuals, homosexuals aren't human, and they deserve to die" etc. I said I don't agree with homosexuality and that's it. If you can't move on and live your life just because you can't stand that I don't support your lifestyle..well, I'm sorry, but that's just not my problem.
Did you seriously just imply that I wouldn't love my child just because they were homosexual and were making choices that I don't agree with? I don't give a damn if my child is gay, straight, or not interested in sex at all, I would love them with all my heart and then some regardless. Don't ever make such baseless assumptions, you don't know a thing about me.
Again, I am very sorry to hear that is what you went through as a child. I don't condone that kind of treatment, and no child deserves to be abused period. I am glad that you persevered through your darkest moments, and are happy with who you are today.
You don't know me Flog. I have never once said or implied that I think of homosexuals as lesser beings, that I wouldn't love them as I love my family and friends solely because of their sexual preference. I am trying to be civil with you, so please stop implying that I wouldn't love a child I brought into this world, that I would abuse and neglect them just because they might be gay. You have absolutely no idea what I've been through, what has made me who I am today, or what I'm even like outside of these forums.
But if one day you choose to become a mum, that could very well be your kid. They may happen to be homosexual, and live in fear of being hon… moreest with you because you think their unchangable preferences are immoral.
Look, I know I get too emotionally involved at times, and I know I'm often rude. Particularly to you, because we fundamentally disagree on so many levels and I'm sorry for that.
Thinking homosexuality is wrong is exactly the kind of views that are damaging.
My parents didn't think I wasn't human. They didn't want me to die.
They thought homosexuality was immoral. They used to send me notes every months saying that they hoped I had reconsidered my 'sinful decision'. How could I possibly reconsider a decision I never made? That kind of stuff physically and mentally tortured me for years before my husband gave me the courage to cut contact.
I can't move on because I can't sit idly by while the beginnings of the same thin… [view original content]
I'm saying that just by holding those views, you'll be negatively affecting your child if they happen to be gay.
I literally never said you wouldn't love your child. Please calm down. The point is that you having these views is actually harmful, whether you spout them or just awkwardly dance around them.
You don't know me either, but that didn't seem to matter when you called me arrogant. But anyway.
If you disagree with homosexuality, you must think it's immoral. That's what that kind of disagreement is.
If that is the case, you think that homosexuals who aren't celibate are immoral. Ah. Then you are essentially regarding any person who engages in sexual pleasure (i.e. almost everyone in the entire world) and happens to do that about men while they happen to also be male is immoral. They are automatically immoral by doing that, i.e. they are automatically less morally good beings. Which is a type of lesser being.
Again, I said nothing about you not loving them, as my parents loved me (otherwise they wouldn't have tried to 'fix' me.). And likewise, you know absolutely nothing about me, and only a tiny sliver of what I've been through. And you insult my characteristics as 'self-absorbed' and 'arrogant' (liking the hendiadys there btw, someones been studying their Plato :P okay probably not but can't blame a guy for trying, I haven't met a single other classicist on this forum and it was worth a shot)
Did you seriously just imply that I wouldn't love my child just because they were homosexual and were making choices that I don't agree with… more? I don't give a damn if my child is gay, straight, or not interested in sex at all, I would love them with all my heart and then some regardless. Don't ever make such baseless assumptions, you don't know a thing about me.
Again, I am very sorry to hear that is what you went through as a child. I don't condone that kind of treatment, and no child deserves to be abused period. I am glad that you persevered through your darkest moments, and are happy with who you are today.
You don't know me Flog. I have never once said or implied that I think of homosexuals as lesser beings, that I wouldn't love them as I love my family and friends solely because of their sexual preference. I am trying to be civil with you, so please stop implying that I wouldn't love a child I brought into this world, that I would a… [view original content]
If you are disagreeing with the 'act of homosexuality' (what is the act of homosexuality?) because you think it is morally wrong, and I have engaged in the 'act of homosexuality', then the logical conclusion is that you think I was being, and am being, morally wrong for engaging in said act.
No, I didn't. My parents love me.
I'm saying that just by holding those views, you'll be negatively affecting your child if they happen t… moreo be gay.
I literally never said you wouldn't love your child. Please calm down. The point is that you having these views is actually harmful, whether you spout them or just awkwardly dance around them.
You don't know me either, but that didn't seem to matter when you called me arrogant. But anyway.
If you disagree with homosexuality, you must think it's immoral. That's what that kind of disagreement is.
If that is the case, you think that homosexuals who aren't celibate are immoral. Ah. Then you are essentially regarding any person who engages in sexual pleasure (i.e. almost everyone in the entire world) and happens to do that about men while they happen to also be male is immoral. They are automatically immoral by doing that, i.e. they are automatically less morally good beings. Which is a t… [view original content]
I know it isn't always the case, but I'm going by the reasoning she was using to defend it: the Bible, a book that says, amongst other things, what one should be wont to do and what one shouldn't be wont to do, and nature, which doesn't make any sense.
If she isn't disagreeing with homosexuality morally, how is she disagreeing with it?
If you disagree with homosexuality, you must think it's immoral. That's what that kind of disagreement is.
I hate to be "that guy"... but...
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/94-false-dilemma
It sure seemed like you implied it. If I do have a child that is homosexual, I will still stay strong in my views, but I won't make them feel lesser or isolated for that. You have no idea if I would be negatively affecting them, just because your parents affected you negatively, doesn't mean it will be the same for me and my child.
I found your behavior to be arrogant, I am sorry for saying you were arrogant. That was out of line.
I seem to have to keep repeating myself with you, I didn't say that the person was immoral for engaging in homosexuality. I disagree with the act and lifestyle, but I have no right to say that they're immoral, because I am not free of sin myself. All I was ever asserting in our conversations is that homosexuality is a choice, not something you're born with, and it can be controlled if they wanted to control it.
Just you implying that I would negatively affect my child, or hurt them is none of your business, and I am allowed to be insulted that you would even imply such a thing. I apologize if I overreacted, but I believe that implication was out of line. You're right, I don't know you either. Which is why I've refrained from being rude to you up until that post, and I should have kept my cool instead of insulting your character. I apologize for calling you self righteous and arrogant. But you have been rude to me from the start Flog, you can't honestly and rationally expect someone not to react in such a way when you're purposely provoking them.
No, I didn't. My parents love me.
I'm saying that just by holding those views, you'll be negatively affecting your child if they happen t… moreo be gay.
I literally never said you wouldn't love your child. Please calm down. The point is that you having these views is actually harmful, whether you spout them or just awkwardly dance around them.
You don't know me either, but that didn't seem to matter when you called me arrogant. But anyway.
If you disagree with homosexuality, you must think it's immoral. That's what that kind of disagreement is.
If that is the case, you think that homosexuals who aren't celibate are immoral. Ah. Then you are essentially regarding any person who engages in sexual pleasure (i.e. almost everyone in the entire world) and happens to do that about men while they happen to also be male is immoral. They are automatically immoral by doing that, i.e. they are automatically less morally good beings. Which is a t… [view original content]
I'm probably totally botching this explanation, and I probably should just let people speak for themselves, but I would say that there doesn't necessarily have to be such absolute views when it comes to morality. It really comes down to semantics I guess. It depends on how you define morality and immorality. A perceived "incorrect" view doesn't necessarily have to be one that is immoral. A person with an absence of a particular moral view point doesn't necessarily = that person being perceived as immoral.
Let's take a look at some synonyms of immoral: unethical, bad, wrongful, wicked, evil, foul, unprincipled, unscrupulous, dishonorable, dishonest, unconscionable, iniquitous, disreputable, corrupt, depraved, vile, villainous, nefarious, base, miscreant. I don't think Tinni is labeling homosexuals as anything of the sort.
I know it isn't always the case, but I'm going by the reasoning she was using to defend it: the Bible, a book that says, amongst other thing… mores, what one should be wont to do and what one shouldn't be wont to do, and nature, which doesn't make any sense.
If she isn't disagreeing with homosexuality morally, how is she disagreeing with it?
Comments
Yes, There are some distasteful and questionable products that people design, write, and direct. However, they are still within their rights to develop those types of projects no matter how questionable or disgusting we find it. For instance, it's perfectly legal for someone to write a book on how to hack a computer or software files (I know this because I've seen numerous of these books at Barnes & Nobles and on Amazon). Technically that falls under freedom of expression and the author is allowed to write and publish it, however, if someone were to actually do that and get caught they would get fined along with prison time.
I just think some people are blowing the Noah movie out of proportion simply because it doesn't follow the Bible exactly, which you honestly can't expect it to do, at least not to a T. Like I've said multiple times, I've read books, seen movies, and played games that flat out degrade Christianity and God that would most likely make your jaw drop if you've read/seen or played them. I'm talking about the main protagonists killing God at the end, siding and aiding Lucifer, and starting wars in Heaven. And these series have existed since the early and mid 80s.
The best thing we can do if something offends or disgusts us is simply pay it no mind and roll our eyes like you said, which I agree with you on.
I know, I still cannot fathom how he could say those things and truly believe them, and think that it was ok to say such things. He can say whatever he wants, but I can't help but be shocked. I'd imagine it is very difficult to stick to your values, stay in reality, and not sell your soul for fame and fortune in Hollywood. There aren't many celebrities that I can name that I believe are honest to God good people. But it is still no excuse for the behavior that is allowed, encouraged, and bred there.
It's because we have no clear leader against theses very real threats(ISIS, and other radical Islam terrorists), Obama as well as others still go on about how we need to negotiate with these people, and understand where they're coming from, whilst these very same people are beheading/raping/torturing innocents in the name of their god. Obama has failed to take action when we've needed it most, he is too complacent and no one is holding him accountable for his apathy. Too many Americans are concerned with Social Justice, such as hurting someone's feelings by not using the politically correct term whilst this pure barbarism goes on that will soon be at our doorstep if they aren't stopped. Too many people are truly blind to what is happening around them.
It was awful. Apparently, there is a 13th apostle, who is a woman, and Jesus told Judas to betray him, and wanted it to happen. There are many other flaws, but those are the most condemnable imo.
I have noticed that pattern as well, I think it may have to do with how Jesus is often depicted on the cross; sickly, thin, and pale etc. I don't really like it either.
About Jesus, personally; when I read the Gospels, the mental image I get, is not the one that is depicted in art; that of a frail looking man.
The Gospels are littered with Jesus performing great and dynamic acts.
For example, in John chapter 3, Jesus drove merchants who were conducting business in the temple.
He also did so on a later occasion, according to Mathew chapter 21.
Those personally don't sound like the actions of physically frail man.
Nor one who was of a passive nature, ( I only mention that, cause I've actually heard some say that about Jesus.)
Also, Jesus walked literally hundreds of miles during three-and-a-half-year ministry, many of the towns in Judea being days apart.
In fact, I read a report that stated that the average man in 1st century Palestine, could walk up to 20 miles a day.
Doesn't sound like something a frail person would be able to do.
These two examples of the things Jesus did during his time on earth, and others like them, convince me that he was not a frail, nor passive man.
But rather a strong, vigorous and dynamic man.
A man who took charge.
Agreed. Unfortunately, many people look to art and sculptures which depict Jesus very differently than how he is in the actual scripture. And I must say, you really know your scripture! Do you study the Bible professionally?
Ohhhhh, THAT'S why you have such an issue with my homosexuality.
Oh, well that actually makes me feel a lot better. I assumed you were having some pure political moral difference, but the fact that you're a Bible Basher has saved me lots of time, as your opinion shan't ever change. You've saved me lot's of time worrying about your views, this is a weight off my shoulders. Thank you Tinni. Or rather, thank you Jesus.
A plethora of actors and actresses who donate to charity, help and support people, and try to make the world a better place are suddenly not honest or good people because they share a different belief, or might possibly belong to a different religion? Couldn't your argument be considered trying to be politically correct because you're debating about people who are saying things regarding a religion that might have offended you, when that really wasn't their intent? I mean, they were after all, just stating their opinion without the government censoring what they should or shouldn't be trying to say, right?
And what threats are you talking about exactly? Because Christianity isn't 100% a benevolent religion either. In some countries of Africa, you have some Christians killing people in the name of their religion as well. This isn't something that only some Islamic people do. I fail to see what Obama has to do with Hollywood making movies loosely based off the Bible, as well as actors saying what they are free to say. This has been going on looooong before most of the world population even knew Obama existed. People should be free to question things, especially when it comes to religion, because America isn't a Christian nation. We are not a theology, nor do we acknowledge one religion as superior over another. Directors can take stories from the Bible and develop/produce them as movies as they see fit regardless if the stories or characters follow the book to a T. If you don't like it, then don't go see it. But don't act like they shouldn't have had the right to make them, as well as saying that they're suddenly not good people. Like I've said before, we do the same thing to other religions and vice versa, so why should Christianity be specifically barred from the same things as well as criticism?
And this isn't something that only happens in the US, many countries around the world partake in the same things when it comes to producing movies based off religious scriptures and not fully following them scripture by scripture.
I felt the same way about the first one, but I think they did a better job with the second... even though it is clearly stretched and embellished from what actually happened in the book. The only part of the 2nd movie that I really, really disliked, was the scene where the dwarves entered the lonely mountain to fight Smaug.
Smaug was the only part of this movie I actually liked.
No, I don't study it professionally.
As a teenager, I loved reading.
When I wasn't swimming, working out, going offroading, or fishing, I liked to read.
In school, I was a straight- A student.
English/language/literature were my best subjects.
And I was pretty good at history.
The only thing I struggled with was math.
One of the things I've been blessed with, is an excellent memory.
I can remember things from when I was a child, even things that my parents have forgotten.
That's why I can recall so many things I've learned over the years.
I'm not meaning to brag, just simply stating facts.
Dude, they're fundamentalist Christians.
Literally nothing you can say will change their mind. Just let it go, and take harbour in the knowledge that there are fewer of them by the day due to conversion to either more liberal christian attitudes, or away from religion altogether.
Oh come on Flog. It's almost like you're implying that they can't think for themselves. I don't know a whole lot about Kenny/Lee, but he seems like a reasonable enough guy, and Tinni is easily one of the sharpest individuals I have met around here. I mean, that whole conversation you had with her over in the other thread should be enough to tell you that she has reasoning outside of just her religious beliefs. You can't just write off their opinions because they happen to be religious individuals. That's just lazy
What? I didn't say anything about them not being good and honest people because they weren't religious, or because they didn't practice the same religion as me. If you are referring to me saying "honest to God", that is just a figure of speech. Lots of religious and non-religious people use that particular phrasing in conversations. Please, don't put words in my mouth. Nor did I say they had to censor themselves, or that they should be punished for saying something that offended me. Though I don't support PC, I never said people weren't allowed to be offended by other people's words/actions. They are entitled to that right, and as am I. I never meant to imply that they shouldn't be able to make these kind of movies, all I meant is that I'm surprised that it was able to be made into a movie when they had to know they would be insulting a large amount of the people it was marketed and directed at. They can make those movies if they want to, but I can be upset about it if I want to, and express my dislike for it with other people if I want to.
Not replying to anything else, because you've missed the point entirely that I was making in my prior post, the second paragraph had absolutely nothing to do with my religion or Hollywood. I was talking about ISIS, and how America and Obama have failed to take a stand against them or eliminate them when they are a very real threat to our country. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.
As I said in my last post, no one is saying that there should be any legal restriction emplaced. I understand that these people are within their individual rights to produce these kinds of movies, even if they are offensive to certain groups of people.
So, you're saying that these people should not be unhappy with movies such as "Noah" simply because there are worse things out there, correct? Doesn't that seem a tad fallacious? I'm sure there are worse things out there that could possibly illicit a stronger outcry, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these people should therefore be more accepting of the lesser offense to them.
The reason why I can understand them being more upset over the issue is the fact that us religious individuals are seemingly becoming more and more of a minority, and we're beginning to be looked down upon enough as it is without movies/media adding to the mentality vs religion. It's honestly very easy to get defensive about these days.
Flog, you have got to be one of the most self righteous and arrogant people I have ever met on these forums. I may have different beliefs and values than you, but I have never once called you names for that, or actively sought out your posts to spread negativity, or tried to start a fight. It seems that you are incapable of living and let live. I held my tongue the other times when you have been unnecessarily rude to me and to others for not agreeing with you, but I am tired of doing that. How close minded and insecure can you be if it bothers you so much when one person who disagrees with you is vocal about it? Just let it go for pete's sake. And you know what, I may not like you very much, but I still don't wish any bad upon you. God bless you Flog, I wish you nothing but the best.
I definitely like what they did with Smaug himself, I just didn't really like the particular scene with him and the dwarves duking it out.
That's quite the advantage you have, I wish my memory was that efficient. I also excelled in History and English in school, but math was always my biggest struggle. You probably could study the Bible professionally if you ever wanted to.
Really, Flog? Looks like you just came here to pick a fight.
You know it's possible for people to have different opinions than yours, right? And that's okay.
The conversation where she told me I'm immoral for being homosexual?
Not, that showed me nothing outside of religious bias.
It's not because they're religious. I'm religious.
It's because they're fundamentalists. Their opinions won't change. And if they do it certainly won't be from reading a forum message.
Is it okay for racists to have harmful opinions?
No?
Why then is it okay for homophobes to have harmful opinions?
I can't let it go with issues like this because these kinds of views lead to people killing them fucking selves because they can't make themselves change, like I tried to do for years after my parents rejected me for being who I am.
I can accept people liking Troy or any other character I don't. That's cool. Because that like doesn't hurt people.
Yeah, agreed. His voice was really well done, I got chills all over when I heard him.
I'm not your parents, I am sorry that you had that experience with them, but that doesn't justify you harassing me for thinking differently than you. How am I hurting anyone by having a different opinion? I'm not going around saying "I hate homosexuals, homosexuals aren't human, and they deserve to die" etc. I said I don't agree with homosexuality and that's it. If you can't move on and live your life just because you can't stand that I don't support your lifestyle..well, I'm sorry, but that's just not my problem.
I never said you were immoral for being homosexual Flog.
But if one day you choose to become a mum, that could very well be your kid. They may happen to be homosexual, and live in fear of being honest with you because you think their unchangable preferences are immoral.
Look, I know I get too emotionally involved at times, and I know I'm often rude. Particularly to you, because we fundamentally disagree on so many levels and I'm sorry for that.
Thinking homosexuality is wrong is exactly the kind of views that are damaging.
My parents didn't think I wasn't human. They didn't want me to die.
They thought homosexuality was immoral. They used to send me notes every months saying that they hoped I had reconsidered my 'sinful decision'. How could I possibly reconsider a decision I never made? That kind of stuff physically and mentally tortured me for years before my husband gave me the courage to cut contact.
I can't move on because I can't sit idly by while the beginnings of the same thing could be forming in your mind, which could cause your future child as much pain as it does to hundreds of millions across the earth.
Can you imagine how horrible it feels to have your parents disagree with who you are? It is painful. And that could hurt your future child, or if you implant your own views into your children then it could hurt theirs.
I just can't let that emotional torture occur. That's why I can't let go on this like I can with other things.
If you don't believe homosexuality is immoral then why do you disagree with it?
Dude... I'm a proud Christian, and I have no hatred for you for being homosexual, so please do not slam on my beliefs.
If it makes you feel good, i'm on your side.
I'm not. I'm a proud Christian too.
I'm 'slamming' on the beliefs of extremist/evangelical Christians. Here, the vocal minority I'm sure.
Did you seriously just imply that I wouldn't love my child just because they were homosexual and were making choices that I don't agree with? I don't give a damn if my child is gay, straight, or not interested in sex at all, I would love them with all my heart and then some regardless. Don't ever make such baseless assumptions, you don't know a thing about me.
Again, I am very sorry to hear that is what you went through as a child. I don't condone that kind of treatment, and no child deserves to be abused period. I am glad that you persevered through your darkest moments, and are happy with who you are today.
You don't know me Flog. I have never once said or implied that I think of homosexuals as lesser beings, that I wouldn't love them as I love my family and friends solely because of their sexual preference. I am trying to be civil with you, so please stop implying that I wouldn't love a child I brought into this world, that I would abuse and neglect them just because they might be gay. You have absolutely no idea what I've been through, what has made me who I am today, or what I'm even like outside of these forums.
Reread what I just sent you. I disagree with the act of homosexuality itself, but I didn't say you were immoral for it.
Oh, ok, sorry for the misunderstanding.
No, I didn't. My parents love me.
I'm saying that just by holding those views, you'll be negatively affecting your child if they happen to be gay.
I literally never said you wouldn't love your child. Please calm down. The point is that you having these views is actually harmful, whether you spout them or just awkwardly dance around them.
You don't know me either, but that didn't seem to matter when you called me arrogant. But anyway.
If you disagree with homosexuality, you must think it's immoral. That's what that kind of disagreement is.
If that is the case, you think that homosexuals who aren't celibate are immoral. Ah. Then you are essentially regarding any person who engages in sexual pleasure (i.e. almost everyone in the entire world) and happens to do that about men while they happen to also be male is immoral. They are automatically immoral by doing that, i.e. they are automatically less morally good beings. Which is a type of lesser being.
Again, I said nothing about you not loving them, as my parents loved me (otherwise they wouldn't have tried to 'fix' me.). And likewise, you know absolutely nothing about me, and only a tiny sliver of what I've been through. And you insult my characteristics as 'self-absorbed' and 'arrogant' (liking the hendiadys there btw, someones been studying their Plato :P okay probably not but can't blame a guy for trying, I haven't met a single other classicist on this forum and it was worth a shot)
If you are disagreeing with the 'act of homosexuality' (what is the act of homosexuality?) because you think it is morally wrong, and I have engaged in the 'act of homosexuality', then the logical conclusion is that you think I was being, and am being, morally wrong for engaging in said act.
No probs dude
I hate to be "that guy"... but...
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/94-false-dilemma
It's okay for homophobes to have harmful opinions. It would not be okay if they acted out on those opinions in a violent manner.
I know it isn't always the case, but I'm going by the reasoning she was using to defend it: the Bible, a book that says, amongst other things, what one should be wont to do and what one shouldn't be wont to do, and nature, which doesn't make any sense.
If she isn't disagreeing with homosexuality morally, how is she disagreeing with it?
You didn't answer my question.
Is it okay for racists to have harmful views?
Even if they don't act violently. Like, if a person pulls a face when a black person sits next to her, because of the colour of their skin.
Is that okay?
It sure seemed like you implied it. If I do have a child that is homosexual, I will still stay strong in my views, but I won't make them feel lesser or isolated for that. You have no idea if I would be negatively affecting them, just because your parents affected you negatively, doesn't mean it will be the same for me and my child.
I found your behavior to be arrogant, I am sorry for saying you were arrogant. That was out of line.
I seem to have to keep repeating myself with you, I didn't say that the person was immoral for engaging in homosexuality. I disagree with the act and lifestyle, but I have no right to say that they're immoral, because I am not free of sin myself. All I was ever asserting in our conversations is that homosexuality is a choice, not something you're born with, and it can be controlled if they wanted to control it.
Just you implying that I would negatively affect my child, or hurt them is none of your business, and I am allowed to be insulted that you would even imply such a thing. I apologize if I overreacted, but I believe that implication was out of line. You're right, I don't know you either. Which is why I've refrained from being rude to you up until that post, and I should have kept my cool instead of insulting your character. I apologize for calling you self righteous and arrogant. But you have been rude to me from the start Flog, you can't honestly and rationally expect someone not to react in such a way when you're purposely provoking them.
I'm probably totally botching this explanation, and I probably should just let people speak for themselves, but I would say that there doesn't necessarily have to be such absolute views when it comes to morality. It really comes down to semantics I guess. It depends on how you define morality and immorality. A perceived "incorrect" view doesn't necessarily have to be one that is immoral. A person with an absence of a particular moral view point doesn't necessarily = that person being perceived as immoral.
Let's take a look at some synonyms of immoral: unethical, bad, wrongful, wicked, evil, foul, unprincipled, unscrupulous, dishonorable, dishonest, unconscionable, iniquitous, disreputable, corrupt, depraved, vile, villainous, nefarious, base, miscreant. I don't think Tinni is labeling homosexuals as anything of the sort.