So you're just saying "The comic Batman would never do that". Okay. He would let a dozen of other people be brutally murdered with the possi… morebility of innocent lives being among them though. Okay. The comic Batman you have envisioned frankly sounds fucking stupid and reckless.
It is highly probable that Harley would kill on spot the person whom she would find responsible for stealing the laptop, so Bruce is standing before a straightforward choice: he would let Selina die or he will die in order to save her.
It does not even matter if it is Selina in this spot or someone else.The further consequences of these choices are somewhere in the background, Bruce can't be certain that this mass slaughter would happen at all because a lot may happen between the moment when he has to make a decision and the moment when Pact reaches Body Spa building. He can't know if Harley would anyhow harm Tiffany if he would give himself up. But the choice he is standing before will have immediate consequences here and now.
And yes, I do not believe comic Batman would sacrifice anyone for greater good.
In general it is kind of ethical dilemma similar a little bit to the Trolley problem (wiki) In the game it is similar but instead of people on the rail track the choice is between deliberately sacrificing Selina in order to prevent the hypothetical slaughter in body spa and possible danger for Tiffany's life.
Batman always tries to save even a single life. If he would think about the greater good, he would have to react only in the situations that endangers the whole city, because there would not be a point in risking his life for such a prosaic thing like saving a couple from being shot in front of their son by some random thug, when maybe the next day there would be a bomb threating the whole city, which can be disarmed only by him.
So you're just saying "The comic Batman would never do that". Okay. He would let a dozen of other people be brutally murdered with the possi… morebility of innocent lives being among them though. Okay. The comic Batman you have envisioned frankly sounds fucking stupid and reckless.
Look, I do disagree with some pivotal points you've brought up but I don't really want to start another three page long back and forth discussion so instead I'll just ask two questions that I believe are crucial to this situation: Do you think saving Selina was worth all the slaughter? And if you knew the outcome of your choice, would you decide differently?
I totally agree with @JmoooX on this.
It is highly probable that Harley would kill on spot the person whom she would find responsible fo… morer stealing the laptop, so Bruce is standing before a straightforward choice: he would let Selina die or he will die in order to save her.
It does not even matter if it is Selina in this spot or someone else.The further consequences of these choices are somewhere in the background, Bruce can't be certain that this mass slaughter would happen at all because a lot may happen between the moment when he has to make a decision and the moment when Pact reaches Body Spa building. He can't know if Harley would anyhow harm Tiffany if he would give himself up. But the choice he is standing before will have immediate consequences here and now.
And yes, I do not believe comic Batman would sacrifice anyone for greater good.
In general it is kind of ethical dilemma similar a little bit to the Trolley problem (… [view original content]
This isn't directed at me but I'm with you on this. I think blaming Selina is the best choice. I played both decisions and felt like crap when I saved Selina. She doesn't die if you blame her so it seems there aren't any bad consequences other than that she might hate and be Bruce's enemy. However I don't necessarily think people were wrong to save her @Gartives makes a good point that Bruce had no idea that he could save lives later but he knew for certain he could save a life in that moment. To me neither decision is the right or wrong decision but given how things turned out its definitely better to blame her.
Look, I do disagree with some pivotal points you've brought up but I don't really want to start another three page long back and forth discu… moression so instead I'll just ask two questions that I believe are crucial to this situation: Do you think saving Selina was worth all the slaughter? And if you knew the outcome of your choice, would you decide differently?
lmao!! I actually forgot what thread I was on and just went with the way the discussion was going. But they have this exact conversation goin on in other threads so I assumed I was on one of those lol. ....Unless I'm just thinking of this one.... wouldn't put it past me.
Just to be clear, I do not intend to continue any back and forth discussion on this topic, it was just my first comment the matter in this alrady ongoing discussion, so I just wanted to say how I see it. And as I wrote – what was discussed here is kind of well known ethic dilemma, so it is not called dilemma without the reason
And to answer your question:
I believe no one is in a position to judge how much is worth the life of given person in comparison to someone else’s. What are the criteria for that?
Without the slightest doubt, I believe Selina is worth saving no matter the cost. Knowing the consequences, I would not change my decision on that. The thing that I see her as a good person, even despite the 'criminal' past, has even nothing to do with saving her, because if there is an option to save a life, I would go for it.
If it would be John Doe instead of Selina in this situation, I would probably make the same choice, even if it would be harder for me because I never trusted him and tried to distantiate 'my' Bruce from him as much as it was possible without blowing up a cover.
@Kaelthas posted: That's not tru, Poogers and I were talking about Selina's kitten
And just to end the offtopic and get to serious business – I upvoted Selina’s cat. Hope we will see the kitten move in to Wayne Manor together with the owner
Look, I do disagree with some pivotal points you've brought up but I don't really want to start another three page long back and forth discu… moression so instead I'll just ask two questions that I believe are crucial to this situation: Do you think saving Selina was worth all the slaughter? And if you knew the outcome of your choice, would you decide differently?
Well, actually it was pretty much on-topic, since apparently some "people might forget, don't notice or just don't know", that Batman doesn't sacrifice other people in the comics.
Depending on which Joker you have by the episode, his design in his relationship screen at the end is completely different.
In the Vigila… morente ending he looks kinda like the Brave and the Bold Joker (especially with that hair) with a bit of Batman influence (with the utility best) and in the Villain ending he looks like a mix between the Dark Knight Returns Joker and Classic Joker.
Has anyone else notice that Harley's voice actor seems to have improved a lot since Harley's debut? In episode 2 her voice was a little TOO grating, like the actor was just talking loud all the time. In the later episodes it seems like she figured out the ideal range. I love that the actors are taking the time to figure stuff like that out instead of just phoning in it, which is fairly easy to do when you're voicing a character.
It's entirely optional, but it's possible to have Alfred as just about your only real ally by the time Episode 5 comes around. By the end of Episode 4 it's possible for Tiffany to have decided to go work for The Agency, Selina to hate your guts for ratting her out, John becoming your mortal enemy for not trusting him, and Gordon shunning you if you support Waller's decision to fire him.
Well yeah, but then if you pushed all other people away you will still have Waller and the agency as an ally in the end... but its a good point you made but you would not be "alone" in episode 5 either way.
It's entirely optional, but it's possible to have Alfred as just about your only real ally by the time Episode 5 comes around. By the end of… more Episode 4 it's possible for Tiffany to have decided to go work for The Agency, Selina to hate your guts for ratting her out, John becoming your mortal enemy for not trusting him, and Gordon shunning you if you support Waller's decision to fire him.
I guess it's up to each player as to whether they trust Waller or not, but personally, after what she pulled on the bridge during the Vigilante ending makes me not want to trust her at all.
Well yeah, but then if you pushed all other people away you will still have Waller and the agency as an ally in the end... but its a good point you made but you would not be "alone" in episode 5 either way.
If you read the newspaper article about the attack on Bodhi Spa one of the masseuses says that a man opened her door and said "secret lab". She says some other unimportant information but adds that the encounter confused and scared her. I didn't go with the Pact but I immediately thought it was John. This actually turns out to be the case if you sell out Selina. John randomly opens a door, says "secret lab" to some poor lady, and then closes the door. John made the news everybody.
I found out the picture in the phone is from this scene, it must have been an inside TTL joke:
So, as amazing as that scene you wrote was... IT IS FAKE, IS NOT CANON, C'EST FINI, YOUR DREAMS AS A SCRIPT WRITER ARE DEAD LIKE BRUCE PARENTS.
Though probably you claim it isn't showing for you because you're in denial cuz you don't want to realize that HARLEY PREFERS BRUCE OVER JOHN. SHE WANTS THE BAT D.
https://i.imgur.com/YxY6s8K.jpg
Though probably you claim it isn't showing for you because you're in denial cuz you don't want to realize that HARLEY PREFERS BRUCE OVER JOHN. SHE WANTS THE BAT D.
https://i.imgur.com/YxY6s8K.jpg
Though probably you claim it isn't showing for you because you're in denial cuz you don't want to realize that HARLEY PREFERS BRUCE OVER JOHN. SHE WANTS THE BAT D.
If you betray John on the bridge despite having trusted him in the funhouse, he has some really emotional dialogue. You can even tell John that you and him were never friends, resulting in him calling you rude.
Anthony Ingruber went all out in this episode and really gave it his best. I hope Telltale continues to work with him in the future on not just Batman, but other properties as well.
If you betray John on the bridge despite having trusted him in the funhouse, he has some really emotional dialogue. You can even tell John t… morehat you and him were never friends, resulting in him calling you rude.
Anthony Ingruber went all out in this episode and really gave it his best. I hope Telltale continues to work with him in the future on not just Batman, but other properties as well.
(I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, so I'm sorry if it has!)
But on the bridge if you chose the "Trust John option", when John refuses to hand over the vial to Waller, she tries to shoot him. If you don't push the button to stop her, Bruce actually steps in front of the gun and takes the bullet for John.
It's really interesting that Bruce would literally die for John like that. I just wish Telltale showed Johns reaction.
If you betray John on the bridge despite having trusted him in the funhouse, he has some really emotional dialogue. You can even tell John t… morehat you and him were never friends, resulting in him calling you rude.
Anthony Ingruber went all out in this episode and really gave it his best. I hope Telltale continues to work with him in the future on not just Batman, but other properties as well.
Do you guys remember in Episode 2 when Bane beat Batman when he threw him hard against a wall almost crippling his body? Well, in the opening of Episode 4 if you go as Batman, you have the option to throw Bane hard against the vile containment unit.
Comments
Well, suddenly this conversation became pointless.
And as a response to the "The comic Batman you have envisioned frankly sounds *** stupid and reckless." part let me just drop this here:
Never forget Selina's Cat that she abandoned in episode 5.
I lik = 1 preyr ;'(
I totally agree with @JmoooX on this.
It is highly probable that Harley would kill on spot the person whom she would find responsible for stealing the laptop, so Bruce is standing before a straightforward choice: he would let Selina die or he will die in order to save her.
It does not even matter if it is Selina in this spot or someone else.The further consequences of these choices are somewhere in the background, Bruce can't be certain that this mass slaughter would happen at all because a lot may happen between the moment when he has to make a decision and the moment when Pact reaches Body Spa building. He can't know if Harley would anyhow harm Tiffany if he would give himself up. But the choice he is standing before will have immediate consequences here and now.
And yes, I do not believe comic Batman would sacrifice anyone for greater good.
In general it is kind of ethical dilemma similar a little bit to the Trolley problem (wiki) In the game it is similar but instead of people on the rail track the choice is between deliberately sacrificing Selina in order to prevent the hypothetical slaughter in body spa and possible danger for Tiffany's life.
Batman always tries to save even a single life. If he would think about the greater good, he would have to react only in the situations that endangers the whole city, because there would not be a point in risking his life for such a prosaic thing like saving a couple from being shot in front of their son by some random thug, when maybe the next day there would be a bomb threating the whole city, which can be disarmed only by him.
Look, I do disagree with some pivotal points you've brought up but I don't really want to start another three page long back and forth discussion so instead I'll just ask two questions that I believe are crucial to this situation: Do you think saving Selina was worth all the slaughter? And if you knew the outcome of your choice, would you decide differently?
This isn't directed at me but I'm with you on this. I think blaming Selina is the best choice. I played both decisions and felt like crap when I saved Selina. She doesn't die if you blame her so it seems there aren't any bad consequences other than that she might hate and be Bruce's enemy. However I don't necessarily think people were wrong to save her @Gartives makes a good point that Bruce had no idea that he could save lives later but he knew for certain he could save a life in that moment. To me neither decision is the right or wrong decision but given how things turned out its definitely better to blame her.
MRW I see 18 new comments on the Details thread but it's actually just people arguing about the right choice in a game where you make your own choices
That's not tru, Poogers and I were talking about Selina's kitten
lmao!! I actually forgot what thread I was on and just went with the way the discussion was going. But they have this exact conversation goin on in other threads so I assumed I was on one of those lol. ....Unless I'm just thinking of this one.... wouldn't put it past me.
Just to be clear, I do not intend to continue any back and forth discussion on this topic, it was just my first comment the matter in this alrady ongoing discussion, so I just wanted to say how I see it. And as I wrote – what was discussed here is kind of well known ethic dilemma, so it is not called dilemma without the reason
And to answer your question:
I believe no one is in a position to judge how much is worth the life of given person in comparison to someone else’s. What are the criteria for that?
Without the slightest doubt, I believe Selina is worth saving no matter the cost. Knowing the consequences, I would not change my decision on that. The thing that I see her as a good person, even despite the 'criminal' past, has even nothing to do with saving her, because if there is an option to save a life, I would go for it.
If it would be John Doe instead of Selina in this situation, I would probably make the same choice, even if it would be harder for me because I never trusted him and tried to distantiate 'my' Bruce from him as much as it was possible without blowing up a cover.
And just to end the offtopic and get to serious business – I upvoted Selina’s cat. Hope we will see the kitten move in to Wayne Manor together with the owner
Well, actually it was pretty much on-topic, since apparently some "people might forget, don't notice or just don't know", that Batman doesn't sacrifice other people in the comics.
Totally Saved it!
If you fail the QTE when Mr Freeze throws the bomb in the blaming Selina beginning:
Min 0:38
omg! Cool! I love John so much more now.
I bet the Bruce and John shippers went wild lmao.
I just noticed the picture of Harvey Bruce has on his phone when Harvey is calling him during Ep 2. He's such a troll.
I'm surprised it's the vigilante one that seems to be using the iconic purple suit.
Hahahaha, what?!
BRUCE: "Hey Harvey, say cheese!"
HARVEY: "Wha-" [flash]
BRUCE: "Excellent. Got your good side, don't worry."
Has anyone else notice that Harley's voice actor seems to have improved a lot since Harley's debut? In episode 2 her voice was a little TOO grating, like the actor was just talking loud all the time. In the later episodes it seems like she figured out the ideal range. I love that the actors are taking the time to figure stuff like that out instead of just phoning in it, which is fairly easy to do when you're voicing a character.
It's entirely optional, but it's possible to have Alfred as just about your only real ally by the time Episode 5 comes around. By the end of Episode 4 it's possible for Tiffany to have decided to go work for The Agency, Selina to hate your guts for ratting her out, John becoming your mortal enemy for not trusting him, and Gordon shunning you if you support Waller's decision to fire him.
Well yeah, but then if you pushed all other people away you will still have Waller and the agency as an ally in the end... but its a good point you made but you would not be "alone" in episode 5 either way.
I guess it's up to each player as to whether they trust Waller or not, but personally, after what she pulled on the bridge during the Vigilante ending makes me not want to trust her at all.
If you read the newspaper article about the attack on Bodhi Spa one of the masseuses says that a man opened her door and said "secret lab". She says some other unimportant information but adds that the encounter confused and scared her. I didn't go with the Pact but I immediately thought it was John. This actually turns out to be the case if you sell out Selina. John randomly opens a door, says "secret lab" to some poor lady, and then closes the door. John made the news everybody.
I found out the picture in the phone is from this scene, it must have been an inside TTL joke:
So, as amazing as that scene you wrote was... IT IS FAKE, IS NOT CANON, C'EST FINI, YOUR DREAMS AS A SCRIPT WRITER ARE DEAD LIKE BRUCE PARENTS.
It kinda looks like he's doing an impression of a fish.
What did you say about my boy!?!?
Oh whoa! Hey now, no need for the crazy eyes!! H-He looks like a very nice fish! Y-Yeah, it's a very nice fish impression!
Oh, good
I just can't get over that cheesy Bruce smile.
Haha, it had me laughing for a few minutes and then I kept going back to this thread just to look at it. lol.
If you pick "The serum won't help" in the Vigilante John ending when dealing with Harley, you get this:
Harley may be a murdeous sociopath but I have to say her sass is on point!
Get what? Nothing’s showing up for me.
https://i.imgur.com/YxY6s8K.jpg
Though probably you claim it isn't showing for you because you're in denial cuz you don't want to realize that HARLEY PREFERS BRUCE OVER JOHN. SHE WANTS THE BAT D.
It was a good joke(in game). I approve.
Lulz.
I know it's a joke, but I honestly don't care who she prefers.
They referenced our memes.
If you betray John on the bridge despite having trusted him in the funhouse, he has some really emotional dialogue. You can even tell John that you and him were never friends, resulting in him calling you rude.
Anthony Ingruber went all out in this episode and really gave it his best. I hope Telltale continues to work with him in the future on not just Batman, but other properties as well.
Some of this dialogue made me sad
(I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, so I'm sorry if it has!)
But on the bridge if you chose the "Trust John option", when John refuses to hand over the vial to Waller, she tries to shoot him. If you don't push the button to stop her, Bruce actually steps in front of the gun and takes the bullet for John.
It's really interesting that Bruce would literally die for John like that. I just wish Telltale showed Johns reaction.
There's just someone at Telltale who's only kink is to kick puppies repeatedly as we are forced to watch.
Do you guys remember in Episode 2 when Bane beat Batman when he threw him hard against a wall almost crippling his body? Well, in the opening of Episode 4 if you go as Batman, you have the option to throw Bane hard against the vile containment unit.
Payback is a bitch.