Am I just so out of touch with society that sleeping with 19 people is the norm?
Maybe. Society is quickly viewing anyone that hasn’t had sex as inhuman and not normal. I guess nowadays sleeping with 19 people has become the norm.
since humans are also animals (if you believe in evolution) that males will continue to be the dominant sex?
Most likely, yes. Although the human species is very different from other species because we broke away from our survival instincts and now almost every human has lost the ability/instinct to hunt for food in the wilderness; we are still very much animals and that means we still have strong instincts. Males will always be more powerful, they are the ones with the build to go off hunting, they are the ones that… Ok I can’t really think of anything else right now but from instinct men are the ones who are the leaders, not woman. However, since our species has broken away from most instincts, it is possible that woman could eventually be seen as an equal and there will be no differences (the way we’re going, if we have enough time to evolve woman might be the same as men in terms of body in the next few million years).
Is it even possible for the sexes to be equal?
Probably not. I mean in time, and by time I mean hundreds of years maybe even a thousand if it takes that long, then maybe the sexes could become equal but, during our lifetime, no, it just isn’t going to happen. There will always be people brought up in households with old values, that’s our down fall, stupid parents teaching their kids stupid things.
my idea of wanting to live a life without producing children, and without being a house wife and subservient person in the marriage that I am by making choices that don't get considered to be a females role, turning my back against the facts of nature?
That last part, about all that being against the facts of nature… Let me just tell you this marriage, being a housewife, being obedient in a marriage IS NOT A PART OF NATURE. It is a part of society’s norms or old-fashioned norms, it is not a part of nature. It is however an old-fashioned view of a females role which is slowly being broken by the fact that most woman are in full time jobs not sitting at home being a housewife and being obedient is becoming less. Also not wanting to produce children isn’t turning your back against nature, some species have dominant females that reproduce all the time and the other females never get a chance (and it is also perfectly fine to not want to have children)
That's a real shame, Hollay. You can't really force self-worth on yourself, but one thing you can do is refrain from speaking and writing bad things about yourself.
I've always hated myself. It's been a vicious cycle since birth, of how I was raised and the enviroment I was raised in. So yeah, I have ver… morey little to no feeling of self worth, I don't think that will ever change because I feel I inherently know it to be true.
Plus im having a horrible day at school. And feel hated on both the Internet and in real life.
I didn't assume about all women, but it is a completely factual statement that the number of men that are generally seen as funny is much higher than the same for women. I was just trying to have some fun, poke the bear and all that. You definitely weren't supposed to take it personally.
I've always hated myself. It's been a vicious cycle since birth, of how I was raised and the enviroment I was raised in. So yeah, I have ver… morey little to no feeling of self worth, I don't think that will ever change because I feel I inherently know it to be true.
Plus im having a horrible day at school. And feel hated on both the Internet and in real life.
As usual Mark is spot on. You gotta learn to love yourself. It might sound regurgitated, because it is, but in order for other people to like you, you must like you. That includes noticing what you dislike about yourself and working to correct what you see as faults. Just knowing that you're actually working to fix those will make you feel so much better, whether that be speaking to strangers, losing weight, or holding in gas on the subway.
Or how about the last thing I want is for someone to judge my gender based off of one bad example, especially if I'm that example. I've seen… more what having you're whole basis for the male sex based off of one misogynistic asshole can do. I also really don't like myself and understand why others wouldn't either.
To have any worth in this world you have to do something great I guess. I'm just not capable of great things, so really I don't see how I will ever have worth. And it's just stating the facts. The truth hurts. Doesn't mean we should refrain from saying it.
And no, I haven't. My parents don't believe in professional help other than in the form of a pill, so if a pill can fix how much I'm capable of then sure I'll take it. Otherwise I've been advised to stay away from seeking professional help. Besides, my parents don't want anyone else to know about their shortcomings when they raised me and my sis. Which is the root of why I hate myself to begin with.
That's a real shame, Hollay. You can't really force self-worth on yourself, but one thing you can do is refrain from speaking and writing bad things about yourself.
Have you seen a professional about this?
I don't see how I'm not supposed to not take that personally when I'm a woman. And I more than likely fall into the category of not funny. Just another area I fall short in.
And thanks for the concern, but it's basically a lost cause at this point.
I didn't assume about all women, but it is a completely factual statement that the number of men that are generally seen as funny is much hi… moregher than the same for women. I was just trying to have some fun, poke the bear and all that. You definitely weren't supposed to take it personally.
EDIT: P.S. I hope your day goes better.
But there are some of us who still live in patriarchal families or communities, and where the very word of feminism or gender issues get's one labeled a femnazi for even uttering the topic. Maybe it is on the more extreme spectrum of feminism, but there are still places where men ant to maintain their dominance in society and especially over women. In America we're not use to seeing that level of gender inequality, I think.
And extremists rise in any group. And usually they are the ones that get media attention and make the rest of their group or anyone like them seen as just as crazy as they are.
Ellen is saying that you know the "Patriarchy" is still there because Feminism is seen as toxic. She ignores the fact that several people th… moreink this because of the Feminazis running around doing stupid shit like going to the UN to complain about rude people on the Internet or creating #KillAllMen (Hopefully that comes through as a hashtag).
Emma is right, or she is partially right. Groups fight for a goal, equal rights for example. Once that group achieves major ground in what they wanted or hell, sometimes they aren't even given that...The group starts to get toxic; In fighting, radicals, bad publicity. The group officially suffers from the same thing every group eventually suffers from. Black Lives matter for instance is a great example. No matter what the original definition was for feminism, it's been so twisted now and days that some parts of feminism are fighting for supremacy, which again stops the good and true feminists from doing the actual important things.
To have any worth in this world you have to do something great I guess
How do you figure? Why do you have to do great things for life to be worthwhile. Why isn't it enough to just do good?
And no, I haven't. My parents don't believe in professional help other than in the form of a pill, so if a pill can fix how much I'm capable of then sure I'll take it. Otherwise I've been advised to stay away from seeking professional help. Besides, my parents don't want anyone else to know about their shortcomings when they raised me and my sis. Which is the root of why I hate myself to begin with.
That's fucked up. Your parents sound like toxic people
To have any worth in this world you have to do something great I guess. I'm just not capable of great things, so really I don't see how I wi… morell ever have worth. And it's just stating the facts. The truth hurts. Doesn't mean we should refrain from saying it.
And no, I haven't. My parents don't believe in professional help other than in the form of a pill, so if a pill can fix how much I'm capable of then sure I'll take it. Otherwise I've been advised to stay away from seeking professional help. Besides, my parents don't want anyone else to know about their shortcomings when they raised me and my sis. Which is the root of why I hate myself to begin with.
Because it doesn't matter what I do, it could always be better, I could always do better and be stronger, but I'm always falling short so I don't feel like I have much worth because I'm constantly reminded of how much better I could be.
And yes, they are, but they're my parents, and I still love them. I just can't help them, and they've apologized for some of the things they have done, but they've still got a long way to go.
To have any worth in this world you have to do something great I guess
How do you figure? Why do you have to do great things for li… morefe to be worthwhile. Why isn't it enough to just do good?
And no, I haven't. My parents don't believe in professional help other than in the form of a pill, so if a pill can fix how much I'm capable of then sure I'll take it. Otherwise I've been advised to stay away from seeking professional help. Besides, my parents don't want anyone else to know about their shortcomings when they raised me and my sis. Which is the root of why I hate myself to begin with.
That's fucked up. Your parents sound like toxic people
I realize there are still some who live in those communities but it doesn't mean that there isn't a giant patriarchal government stopping women from doing what they want, there are small pockets, but not a giant conspiracy or anything.
For your last part, I don't know what you're trying to get act, I told you this. Eventually radicals emerge in good groups and tear it down and turn it into something it wasn't made for, it goes against what it was originally created for most of the time...like Feminism.
But there are some of us who still live in patriarchal families or communities, and where the very word of feminism or gender issues get's o… morene labeled a femnazi for even uttering the topic. Maybe it is on the more extreme spectrum of feminism, but there are still places where men ant to maintain their dominance in society and especially over women. In America we're not use to seeing that level of gender inequality, I think.
And extremists rise in any group. And usually they are the ones that get media attention and make the rest of their group or anyone like them seen as just as crazy as they are.
If you can give me some formula, some magic step by step process to follow to help me love myself I'd love to know. But the truth is, some of us just can't. We know we're just not good enough for others. I'm probably doing my future husband a favor by isolating myself away so he can find someone better for him.
I don't know why you think that, but it's nice to know that people are out there like you who want to lift others up and help them.
Viva is just joking for responses only a harmless joke just for a little fun
I also really don't like myself and understand why other… mores wouldn't either.
Our thoughts manifest into reality by having such a low opinion of yourself makes it fact no matter how ridiculous it is what you believe comes true
How can you expect anyone to love you when you don't?
Your an incredible person I think your just going through a hard time right now learn to love yourself and appreciate all your talents then I promise all your wishes and ambitions will come through and you will be happy
I don't think I ever can or will. Maybe that's just indicative that I'm not a likable person. I'm better off alone, where I can't possible hurt anyone be it friends or family.
As usual Mark is spot on. You gotta learn to love yourself. It might sound regurgitated, because it is, but in order for other people to lik… moree you, you must like you. That includes noticing what you dislike about yourself and working to correct what you see as faults. Just knowing that you're actually working to fix those will make you feel so much better, whether that be speaking to strangers, losing weight, or holding in gas on the subway.
It doesn't have to be a giant patriarchal government to hold a woman down, it can be the situation she's in with a single male or more. I personally live in a family where women are expected to simply be housewives and mothers, nothing else. Anything outside of those two roles is seen as weird.
I mean what I said. The extremists in any group can ruin an entire group because the media will use them to try and represent an entire community of people. Look at Westboro Church, they are horrible people even considered so by Christians themselves. I don't want a Westboro crazy to represent what a Christian or person of faith is like. I also don't want some little dip shit who shoots up a place to be the person representing the entire community of law abiding, gun owners. Radicals and extremists exist in any group, and Femnazi's have become synonymous with a feminist when there is still a difference between the two. just like a Westboro Crazy and a simple Christian.
I realize there are still some who live in those communities but it doesn't mean that there isn't a giant patriarchal government stopping wo… moremen from doing what they want, there are small pockets, but not a giant conspiracy or anything.
For your last part, I don't know what you're trying to get act, I told you this. Eventually radicals emerge in good groups and tear it down and turn it into something it wasn't made for, it goes against what it was originally created for most of the time...like Feminism.
Yes you can, you just need to be willing to put the effort in and be alright with getting hurt in the process (and you will get hurt). It's not fun, but it's worth it in the end.
It's indicative that you're really good at setting bad self-fulfilling prophecies. That's a dangerous path.
I don't think I ever can or will. Maybe that's just indicative that I'm not a likable person. I'm better off alone, where I can't possible hurt anyone be it friends or family.
It doesn't have to be a giant patriarchal government to hold a woman down, it can be the situation she's in with a single male or more. I personally live in a family where women are expected to simply be housewives and mothers, nothing else. Anything outside of those two roles is seen as weird.
That's life. If you want something, you got to get it. If one person is holding you down, you overcome it. You don't need everyone's support to do it if you're an independent and strong person.
The thing of people not having radicals overcome their image is to constantly point out who are the radicals and reprimand their behavior. However, that obviously isn't happening in most of the Feminist groups, instead the radicals are looked up to...That's why Feminazis are seen as a majority of feminists. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to recognize the problem and fix it.
It doesn't have to be a giant patriarchal government to hold a woman down, it can be the situation she's in with a single male or more. I pe… morersonally live in a family where women are expected to simply be housewives and mothers, nothing else. Anything outside of those two roles is seen as weird.
I mean what I said. The extremists in any group can ruin an entire group because the media will use them to try and represent an entire community of people. Look at Westboro Church, they are horrible people even considered so by Christians themselves. I don't want a Westboro crazy to represent what a Christian or person of faith is like. I also don't want some little dip shit who shoots up a place to be the person representing the entire community of law abiding, gun owners. Radicals and extremists exist in any group, and Femnazi's have become synonymous with a feminist when there is still a difference between the two. just like a Westboro Crazy and a simple Christian.
That's life. If you want something, you got to get it.
Trust me, I understand the concept of working hard to get results. But some things aren't attainable no matter how hard you work because some things are simply impossible.
If you want to be taken seriously, you need to recognize the problem and fix it.
Is this a statement directed at me personally or in general?
Still, it's unfair to label every feminist as a femnazi. That'd be like saying every man is a misogynist. Or that every male is an alpha ass hole.
It doesn't have to be a giant patriarchal government to hold a woman down, it can be the situation she's in with a single male or more. I pe… morersonally live in a family where women are expected to simply be housewives and mothers, nothing else. Anything outside of those two roles is seen as weird.
That's life. If you want something, you got to get it. If one person is holding you down, you overcome it. You don't need everyone's support to do it if you're an independent and strong person.
The thing of people not having radicals overcome their image is to constantly point out who are the radicals and reprimand their behavior. However, that obviously isn't happening in most of the Feminist groups, instead the radicals are looked up to...That's why Feminazis are seen as a majority of feminists. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to recognize the problem and fix it.
Trust me, I understand the concept of working hard to get results. But some things aren't attainable no matter how hard you work because some things are simply impossible.
Anything, within reason, is possible. You can't say "I want to be a politician but the patriarchy is keeping me down", when it isn't. Not directly to you in specific, but in general.
Is this a statement directed at me personally or in general?
In general of course, why would I make you in specific the only solution to this?
Still, it's unfair to label every feminist as a femnazi
That's life. If you want something, you got to get it.
Trust me, I understand the concept of working hard to get results. But some t… morehings aren't attainable no matter how hard you work because some things are simply impossible.
If you want to be taken seriously, you need to recognize the problem and fix it.
Is this a statement directed at me personally or in general?
Still, it's unfair to label every feminist as a femnazi. That'd be like saying every man is a misogynist. Or that every male is an alpha ass hole.
Maybe other people can learn to love themselves or appreciate things about themselves, but I know for a fact I can't for myself. I've spent my entire life feeling the way I have, it won't ever change. Maybe I'm just thinking realistically that there are people who just are isolated and exist alone. I would rather live this way than hurt others or bring them down. I do have things to look forward too in life, but realistically speaking someone like me simply can't do or accomplish a lot of things no matter how hard I try and want it.
Yes you can, you just need to be willing to put the effort in and be alright with getting hurt in the process (and you will get hurt). It's … morenot fun, but it's worth it in the end.
It's indicative that you're really good at setting bad self-fulfilling prophecies. That's a dangerous path.
Anything, within reason, is possible. You can't say "I want to be a politician but the patriarchy is keeping me down", when it isn't. Not directly to you in specific, but in general.
Well if other women feel that way then fine, that's their problem. Go tell them that. Still, in my situation a oppressive male dominance definitely looms over things. It's hard to have been raised for 23 years being told your life depended on getting married by age 21 and becoming a housewife. And you only just realized that you don't have to live according to a older/traditionalist point of view, you can make your own path within reason.
In general of course, why would I make you in specific the only solution to this?
After the day I've had I'm convinced everyone is out to get me or hates me.
Did I say it was? Re read what I wrote.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do come across to me as being someone whom severely dislikes feminists of any sort. I understand if you have had bad experiences with them, but please, I implore you not to see someone whom calls them a feminist as a radical man hater.
However, that obviously isn't happening in most of the Feminist groups, instead the radicals are looked up to...That's why Feminazis are seen as a majority of feminists.
I can assure you I (and most of my feminist friends) do not look up to or adhere to anything a femnazi would say. They have done more harm than good and have almost reverted us back to square one when it comes to being taken seriously.
Trust me, I understand the concept of working hard to get results. But some things aren't attainable no matter how hard you work because som… moree things are simply impossible.
Anything, within reason, is possible. You can't say "I want to be a politician but the patriarchy is keeping me down", when it isn't. Not directly to you in specific, but in general.
Is this a statement directed at me personally or in general?
In general of course, why would I make you in specific the only solution to this?
Still, it's unfair to label every feminist as a femnazi
Did I say it was? Re read what I wrote.
in my situation a oppressive male dominance definitely looms over things.
Yes, in your situation. Which I acknowledged before, this male dominance still looms in some parts of America.
After the day I've had I'm convinced everyone is out to get me or hates me.
I've had days like that, don't worry, after a little relaxation you will feel better.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do come across to me as being someone whom severely dislikes feminists of any sort. I understand if you have had bad experiences with them, but please, I implore you not to see someone whom calls them a feminist as a radical man hater.
Um...You're wrong. I have no clue what you're talking about, after all you know nothing about me. I have no dislike of rational feminists like some here on the Forum, for example Welcome to Woodbury is a person I don't "Severely dislike", in fact I respect and enjoy her being on the Forums. I have problem with the feminists who are radical and want superiority or go after outrageous goals that in no way need reformations. Please, calm yourself, you're pulling things out of thin air.
I can assure you I (and most of my feminist friends) do not look up to or adhere to anything a femnazi would say. They have done more harm than good and have almost reverted us back to square one when it comes to being taken seriously.
Good job! You're not part of the problem. Sadly, despite what you think about these crazy radicals, a good number of feminists still look up towards these radicals and support them, they are what give feminism a bad name. Again, I know you said you had a bad day and you think everyone is out to get you but I'm not always talking specifically about you, I'm talking in general, if I was talking about you then I would make that crystal clear.
Anything, within reason, is possible. You can't say "I want to be a politician but the patriarchy is keeping me down", when it isn't. Not di… morerectly to you in specific, but in general.
Well if other women feel that way then fine, that's their problem. Go tell them that. Still, in my situation a oppressive male dominance definitely looms over things. It's hard to have been raised for 23 years being told your life depended on getting married by age 21 and becoming a housewife. And you only just realized that you don't have to live according to a older/traditionalist point of view, you can make your own path within reason.
In general of course, why would I make you in specific the only solution to this?
After the day I've had I'm convinced everyone is out to get me or hates me.
Did I say it was? Re read what I wrote.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do come across to me as being someone whom severely dislikes fe… [view original content]
Going to a university where everyone hates you for being you, there's really no day off from that unfortunately. -_-
I'm sorry if I offended, but still, simply going off of text alone can be hard to decipher and to understand someones ulterior motives completely and how someone really feels. Besides, someone can say anything on the internet, it's easy to lie and bullshit. I'm not saying I count you as one, but we must always take what we read or hear with a grain of salt...
But I can say the same to you too, you know little about me and certainly don't know the situation I've been raised in and how much I'm still recovering from it. Still, you say that many feminists nowadays worship femnazi's, so it's hard to distinguish between a rational feminist and a femnazi worshiping feminist when you simply say that most feminists look up to femnazis. In my opinion, you are either a feminist, or a femnazi. And perhaps their is a large population of misguided and radical femnazis and a small portion of well intentioned and mislabeled feminists.
in my situation a oppressive male dominance definitely looms over things.
Yes, in your situation. Which I acknowledged before, this … moremale dominance still looms in some parts of America.
After the day I've had I'm convinced everyone is out to get me or hates me.
I've had days like that, don't worry, after a little relaxation you will feel better.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do come across to me as being someone whom severely dislikes feminists of any sort. I understand if you have had bad experiences with them, but please, I implore you not to see someone whom calls them a feminist as a radical man hater.
Um...You're wrong. I have no clue what you're talking about, after all you know nothing about me. I have no dislike of rational feminists like some here on the Forum, for example Welcome to Woodbury is a person I don't "Severely dislike", in fact I respect and enjoy her being on the Forums. I have probl… [view original content]
Going to a university where everyone hates you for being you, there's really no day off from that unfortunately
Then take each minute with stride.
I'm sorry if I offended
Offended? No. I laughed when I saw it.
so it's hard to distinguish between a rational feminist and a femnazi worshiping feminist when you simply say that most feminists look up to femnazis.
Not really, you just gotta ask a few questions on their stances of a few different people. I won't state what type of people you should ask their opinion on because that varies from month to month.
In my opinion, you are either a feminist, or a femnazi.
Unfair thinking but if you're looking at the basics, sure.
Going to a university where everyone hates you for being you, there's really no day off from that unfortunately. -_-
I'm sorry if I offen… moreded, but still, simply going off of text alone can be hard to decipher and to understand someones ulterior motives completely and how someone really feels. Besides, someone can say anything on the internet, it's easy to lie and bullshit. I'm not saying I count you as one, but we must always take what we read or hear with a grain of salt...
But I can say the same to you too, you know little about me and certainly don't know the situation I've been raised in and how much I'm still recovering from it. Still, you say that many feminists nowadays worship femnazi's, so it's hard to distinguish between a rational feminist and a femnazi worshiping feminist when you simply say that most feminists look up to femnazis. In my opinion, you are either a feminist, or a femnazi. And perhaps their is a large population… [view original content]
I don't know your age, but the fact that you don't want kids right now can change with time. ( I always said I don't want any kids, but lately I realized that I do want a child sometime in the future)
I know you mean well and I'm not going to take away anything from you being supportive, but I'd be very careful saying things like that to people, especially young people. Because having been on the other side of that and having had my aunt say something similar to me, from my own personal experience, it made my emotions feel invalid. I know she meant well, but for me at that age it felt like she wasn't listening to me, and years on my opinion hasn't changed. I've got no intention at all of starting a family, and I know I don't have that in me and it's not the path in life I want to take.
I hope it doesn't feel like I'm jumping down your throat T.T the reason I bring this up is because I've read about it from other people going through the same thing of others saying similar things or really expecting parenthood of them. It's true people can change their minds about stuff, but for something that is a seriously big decision and life changing like starting a family can be, I wish that no matter how old the person is, male or female, when they say 'I don't want kids' that the automatic response that comes to mind from the person or people they tell is just, 'okay,' because some of the things people say back to them can be really hurtful or even damaging sometimes, and it's scary
I don't think equality can exist in our world... sadly. As a woman I do have the desire to be equal to men, but I don't believe it will ever… more happen completely.
Sex, race, wealth... we'll never be equal. There'll be always the ones who step on others, repress others.
But don't forget the praying mantis bites off the male's head. x)
I don't know your age, but the fact that you don't want kids right now can change with time. ( I always said I don't want any kids, but lately I realized that I do want a child sometime in the future)
And also a woman can be strong, sometimes even stronger than any man!
Feminism, by definition though, is about women. It has nothing to do with men. We'll never be able to have true equality if any sort of feminism is around. We should instead, focus our efforts on egalitarianism.
I just hope people don't get feminists and feminazis mixed up there not all after our heads on a fork, some are feminists for the right reasons imo they should not all get hated on because of nazis
That's why I keep my shotgun for the fuck shit motherfuckers who expect you to blend in society and do what they say on T.V, and expect you to be in a certain way then become snob-like when you're revealed not to follow the same linear pattern and standards.
I am very delighted to see people like you holding strong against such atrocities to be honest. Just how they act alone substantiates evolution. Reality is harsh beyond comprehension and not everybody gets it easy or otherwise. But I think (my opinion) that it's impossible for there to be "equality" alone, it also depends on how you define equality.
On the other hand, we tend to look back at the less complicated organisms and scrutinize them then we try to constitute "nature", only to realize we are a work of nature ourselves the same as those animals but evolved differently, revolutionized. That's how nature is supposed to work, things evolve. It's complicated you know.
I didn't mean to sound disrespectful towards the OP or anyone who don't want children or family. It's totally okay if you decide not to have a family.
I kinda know what you mean, I got that a lot from people like 5 years ago when I told them I would never want any kids (children used to creep me out, maybe they still do). They looked at me like I was some kind of freak. I said the "age thing" only because I think time can change a lot of things. (I went through a lot of shit in the past 2 years and it absolutely changed my way of seeing life, but I don't want to bore you with that )
Society still expects it from you, me and everyone. But hey.. don't let anyone tell you what to do and how to live your life or what's considered as "normal".
I don't know your age, but the fact that you don't want kids right now can change with time. ( I always said I don't want any kids, but late… morely I realized that I do want a child sometime in the future)
I know you mean well and I'm not going to take away anything from you being supportive, but I'd be very careful saying things like that to people, especially young people. Because having been on the other side of that and having had my aunt say something similar to me, from my own personal experience, it made my emotions feel invalid. I know she meant well, but for me at that age it felt like she wasn't listening to me, and years on my opinion hasn't changed. I've got no intention at all of starting a family, and I know I don't have that in me and it's not the path in life I want to take.
I hope it doesn't feel like I'm jumping down your throat T.T the reason I bring this up is because I've read about it from other people going throug… [view original content]
Am I just so out of touch with society that sleeping with 19 people is the norm?
You're not the only person being laughed at when pointing out those sort of things, I've witnessed this several times mostly on the internet. I personally share your opinion on this but the society we live in today has less and less limits to what is considered acceptable. Things that a few years ago could have been perceived as shocking are now totally normal. Morals don't have any importance anymore, people just want to do whatever they want without bothering to think if it is right or not.
I am so loosely a feminist, because whenever I say something about agreeing with a feminist I get told I'm a crazy (often people include the word liberal) bitter, virgin, whom hates men and wants them to be servants to women.
Unfortunately it is like that everywhere, when I first realized it it made me sad but now it has become so ridiculous that it actually amuses me to see all these people pour their unjustified hatred on people who defend justice and what they believe in. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but I don't think it is ever going to change, actually I even think that it is only going to get worse. And also, since when is being a virgin a thing to be ashamed of ? So it's perfectly okay to sleep with as many people as you want but being a virgin is the worst thing ever ? I really hope the people who think that way are only a very loud minority otherwise I don't even want to think of what the world is going to become in a few years!
What is fact? What is idealism? Is equality even possible? Or has nature made it so, that we fight against the very thing we were made into?
You know what ? I feel exactly like you and I have asked myself these questions several times. Some people I know share this belief that women are inferior beings that have to be treated as children because they are too stupid and superficial to do anything important on their own. I can give you an example of how it has affected me with video games. I have been playing video games since I was a child and I never asked myself if it was normal for a girl, it just didn't even cross my mind. I enjoyed it and it made me happy that's all that mattered. But a few years ago I started seeing a lot of hatred towards female gamers, I heard some people say that video games were for men only and that women couldn't possibly be interested in them. I'm glad that there are a lot of female gamers that are starting to use youtube and twitch but if you take any twitch female gamer, you'll notice that a lot of them get sexual comments.
To me all human beings are equal, gender or ethnicity doesn't matter at all. I think people should only be judged based on their actions not on what they are. Concerning equality, once again I don't want to sound too pessimistic but when I see all the hate women get when they try to defend their rights and their beliefs I lose hope and I don't think it is ever going to change. And also, I'm amazed how people, men mostly, don't want to understand that feminism is all about equality and fights against discrimination of women all over the world. Discrimination against women is real, violence against women is too and it is a real problem in our society (and also all over the world) but it seems like nobody cares. All I know is that I won't stop defending this cause because you won't believe how painful the lives of some women are because of the discriminations, because of the violence, harassment and humiliations they have to endure.
Am I just so out of touch with society that sleeping with 19 people is the norm?
You're not the only person being laughed at when po… moreinting out those sort of things, I've witnessed this several times mostly on the internet. I personally share your opinion on this but the society we live in today has less and less limits to what is considered acceptable. Things that a few years ago could have been perceived as shocking are now totally normal. Morals don't have any importance anymore, people just want to do whatever they want without bothering to think if it is right or not.
I am so loosely a feminist, because whenever I say something about agreeing with a feminist I get told I'm a crazy (often people include the word liberal) bitter, virgin, whom hates men and wants them to be servants to women.
Unfortunately it is like that everywhere, when I first realized it it made me sad but now it has become so ridiculous that it act… [view original content]
Am I just so out of touch with society that sleeping with 19 people is the norm?
You're not the only person being laughed at when po… moreinting out those sort of things, I've witnessed this several times mostly on the internet. I personally share your opinion on this but the society we live in today has less and less limits to what is considered acceptable. Things that a few years ago could have been perceived as shocking are now totally normal. Morals don't have any importance anymore, people just want to do whatever they want without bothering to think if it is right or not.
I am so loosely a feminist, because whenever I say something about agreeing with a feminist I get told I'm a crazy (often people include the word liberal) bitter, virgin, whom hates men and wants them to be servants to women.
Unfortunately it is like that everywhere, when I first realized it it made me sad but now it has become so ridiculous that it act… [view original content]
I don't believe so. Equality would mean that the group of privilege would have to give it up and that's a hard ask to fully embrace, even with the improvements make in the last 100 years.
I just have to say you care way too much about what society thinks about you. You say you don't want to be a house wife, then don't. You say you don't want to have children, then don't. I assume you live in a first world country, and I also assume there is no one in your life forcing you into situations you may not find ideal for yourself. If my assumptions are true then do what you please. You sound as if you're wallowing in self pity, and only person that is stopping you from doing something you really want to do is you. I have multiple successful women in my family, mostly all doctors. If they wanted something they went for it, even if it meant moving or going to a different country to obtain their dreams without a man. Take responsibility for your own decisions, and don't worry about what society expects from you. At the end of the day the most society is doing is judging you, but why should you care?
Also please tell me actual rights that you feel men have and you don't.
You and I were obviously raised differently, as no two people are raised the same. I grew up being told that that how others saw me was more important than being true to myself. So yes, I do care too much what others think of me, but old habits die hard and you can't simply overturn a lifetime of one way of thinking about how you ought to be portrayed to the world. I agree with you that people like myself shouldn't care so much what society things of me, but again, I've been taught that how others see me is more important than who I really am.
I'm not referring to anything like voting rights or basic rights every human should have. More the fact that today, several social stigma still exist and that people and groups still hold certain sexist / racist / misguided views of what others do. My main example again is that woman whom choose not to become a mother or a submissive housewife are given more scrutiny then a man who might not want to be a father or settle down. Another example that applies to both sexes and is also an issue with societal views is how childless couples that choose not to have children are considered selfish. I think though that were all aware of the social stigma that still follow every group of person, regardless of gender. Men still have stigma following them just the same as women. Black people still have stigma following them as do white people.
My main point then would be, can we ever allow their to be equality when people will often hold such deeply ingrained views and morals about others?
I just have to say you care way too much about what society thinks about you. You say you don't want to be a house wife, then don't. You say… more you don't want to have children, then don't. I assume you live in a first world country, and I also assume there is no one in your life forcing you into situations you may not find ideal for yourself. If my assumptions are true then do what you please. You sound as if you're wallowing in self pity, and only person that is stopping you from doing something you really want to do is you. I have multiple successful women in my family, mostly all doctors. If they wanted something they went for it, even if it meant moving or going to a different country to obtain their dreams without a man. Take responsibility for your own decisions, and don't worry about what society expects from you. At the end of the day the most society is doing is judging you, but why should you care?
Also please tell me actual rights that you feel men have and you don't.
You will never be able to change a person's perception, no matter what. It's a lost cause. So no the type of "equality" you hope for will never exist unless we resort to brainwashing. These people whom are racist, sexist, or whom have misguided views of others have a right to be that way, given it's their opinion and given in some cases that's just what makes them human; to have our own perceptions and opinions about ourselves and others. In all first world countries social equality exist and opportunities are available for all people, there is no inequality because you're a woman. Now how individuals many perceive you is an entirely different matter. You, a woman have the same liberties as me, a man. Our perceptions of one another will not change that. I'm sorry that your environment is "toxic" and is full of people telling you; you can't do something. But the fact is, you can and as I stated before: the only person stopping you is yourself. I sincerely hope you will not allow others to dictate how you should live your life. So best of luck to you
You and I were obviously raised differently, as no two people are raised the same. I grew up being told that that how others saw me was more… more important than being true to myself. So yes, I do care too much what others think of me, but old habits die hard and you can't simply overturn a lifetime of one way of thinking about how you ought to be portrayed to the world. I agree with you that people like myself shouldn't care so much what society things of me, but again, I've been taught that how others see me is more important than who I really am.
I'm not referring to anything like voting rights or basic rights every human should have. More the fact that today, several social stigma still exist and that people and groups still hold certain sexist / racist / misguided views of what others do. My main example again is that woman whom choose not to become a mother or a submissive housewife are given more scrutiny then a man who might not want to … [view original content]
Sorry I don't understand. I only said the truth based on some things I witnessed and personally experienced. I didn't say video games were a problem for women, I said that there are some people that believe video games are supposed to be enjoyed only or mostly by men. I also saw some women beings criticized for being gamers.
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Maybe. Society is quickly viewing anyone that hasn’t had sex as inhuman and not normal. I guess nowadays sleeping with 19 people has become the norm.
Most likely, yes. Although the human species is very different from other species because we broke away from our survival instincts and now almost every human has lost the ability/instinct to hunt for food in the wilderness; we are still very much animals and that means we still have strong instincts. Males will always be more powerful, they are the ones with the build to go off hunting, they are the ones that… Ok I can’t really think of anything else right now but from instinct men are the ones who are the leaders, not woman. However, since our species has broken away from most instincts, it is possible that woman could eventually be seen as an equal and there will be no differences (the way we’re going, if we have enough time to evolve woman might be the same as men in terms of body in the next few million years).
Probably not. I mean in time, and by time I mean hundreds of years maybe even a thousand if it takes that long, then maybe the sexes could become equal but, during our lifetime, no, it just isn’t going to happen. There will always be people brought up in households with old values, that’s our down fall, stupid parents teaching their kids stupid things.
That last part, about all that being against the facts of nature… Let me just tell you this marriage, being a housewife, being obedient in a marriage IS NOT A PART OF NATURE. It is a part of society’s norms or old-fashioned norms, it is not a part of nature. It is however an old-fashioned view of a females role which is slowly being broken by the fact that most woman are in full time jobs not sitting at home being a housewife and being obedient is becoming less. Also not wanting to produce children isn’t turning your back against nature, some species have dominant females that reproduce all the time and the other females never get a chance (and it is also perfectly fine to not want to have children)
That's a real shame, Hollay. You can't really force self-worth on yourself, but one thing you can do is refrain from speaking and writing bad things about yourself.
Have you seen a professional about this?
I didn't assume about all women, but it is a completely factual statement that the number of men that are generally seen as funny is much higher than the same for women. I was just trying to have some fun, poke the bear and all that. You definitely weren't supposed to take it personally.
EDIT: P.S. I hope your day goes better.
As usual Mark is spot on. You gotta learn to love yourself. It might sound regurgitated, because it is, but in order for other people to like you, you must like you. That includes noticing what you dislike about yourself and working to correct what you see as faults. Just knowing that you're actually working to fix those will make you feel so much better, whether that be speaking to strangers, losing weight, or holding in gas on the subway.
Is thay Mad Max?
Oh what a day, What a lovely day
To have any worth in this world you have to do something great I guess. I'm just not capable of great things, so really I don't see how I will ever have worth. And it's just stating the facts. The truth hurts. Doesn't mean we should refrain from saying it.
And no, I haven't. My parents don't believe in professional help other than in the form of a pill, so if a pill can fix how much I'm capable of then sure I'll take it. Otherwise I've been advised to stay away from seeking professional help. Besides, my parents don't want anyone else to know about their shortcomings when they raised me and my sis. Which is the root of why I hate myself to begin with.
I don't see how I'm not supposed to not take that personally when I'm a woman. And I more than likely fall into the category of not funny. Just another area I fall short in.
And thanks for the concern, but it's basically a lost cause at this point.
But there are some of us who still live in patriarchal families or communities, and where the very word of feminism or gender issues get's one labeled a femnazi for even uttering the topic. Maybe it is on the more extreme spectrum of feminism, but there are still places where men ant to maintain their dominance in society and especially over women. In America we're not use to seeing that level of gender inequality, I think.
And extremists rise in any group. And usually they are the ones that get media attention and make the rest of their group or anyone like them seen as just as crazy as they are.
How do you figure? Why do you have to do great things for life to be worthwhile. Why isn't it enough to just do good?
That's fucked up. Your parents sound like toxic people
Because it doesn't matter what I do, it could always be better, I could always do better and be stronger, but I'm always falling short so I don't feel like I have much worth because I'm constantly reminded of how much better I could be.
And yes, they are, but they're my parents, and I still love them. I just can't help them, and they've apologized for some of the things they have done, but they've still got a long way to go.
I realize there are still some who live in those communities but it doesn't mean that there isn't a giant patriarchal government stopping women from doing what they want, there are small pockets, but not a giant conspiracy or anything.
For your last part, I don't know what you're trying to get act, I told you this. Eventually radicals emerge in good groups and tear it down and turn it into something it wasn't made for, it goes against what it was originally created for most of the time...like Feminism.
If you can give me some formula, some magic step by step process to follow to help me love myself I'd love to know. But the truth is, some of us just can't. We know we're just not good enough for others. I'm probably doing my future husband a favor by isolating myself away so he can find someone better for him.
I don't know why you think that, but it's nice to know that people are out there like you who want to lift others up and help them.
I don't think I ever can or will. Maybe that's just indicative that I'm not a likable person. I'm better off alone, where I can't possible hurt anyone be it friends or family.
It doesn't have to be a giant patriarchal government to hold a woman down, it can be the situation she's in with a single male or more. I personally live in a family where women are expected to simply be housewives and mothers, nothing else. Anything outside of those two roles is seen as weird.
I mean what I said. The extremists in any group can ruin an entire group because the media will use them to try and represent an entire community of people. Look at Westboro Church, they are horrible people even considered so by Christians themselves. I don't want a Westboro crazy to represent what a Christian or person of faith is like. I also don't want some little dip shit who shoots up a place to be the person representing the entire community of law abiding, gun owners. Radicals and extremists exist in any group, and Femnazi's have become synonymous with a feminist when there is still a difference between the two. just like a Westboro Crazy and a simple Christian.
Yes you can, you just need to be willing to put the effort in and be alright with getting hurt in the process (and you will get hurt). It's not fun, but it's worth it in the end.
It's indicative that you're really good at setting bad self-fulfilling prophecies. That's a dangerous path.
That's life. If you want something, you got to get it. If one person is holding you down, you overcome it. You don't need everyone's support to do it if you're an independent and strong person.
The thing of people not having radicals overcome their image is to constantly point out who are the radicals and reprimand their behavior. However, that obviously isn't happening in most of the Feminist groups, instead the radicals are looked up to...That's why Feminazis are seen as a majority of feminists. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to recognize the problem and fix it.
Trust me, I understand the concept of working hard to get results. But some things aren't attainable no matter how hard you work because some things are simply impossible.
Is this a statement directed at me personally or in general?
Still, it's unfair to label every feminist as a femnazi. That'd be like saying every man is a misogynist. Or that every male is an alpha ass hole.
Anything, within reason, is possible. You can't say "I want to be a politician but the patriarchy is keeping me down", when it isn't. Not directly to you in specific, but in general.
In general of course, why would I make you in specific the only solution to this?
Did I say it was? Re read what I wrote.
Maybe other people can learn to love themselves or appreciate things about themselves, but I know for a fact I can't for myself. I've spent my entire life feeling the way I have, it won't ever change. Maybe I'm just thinking realistically that there are people who just are isolated and exist alone. I would rather live this way than hurt others or bring them down. I do have things to look forward too in life, but realistically speaking someone like me simply can't do or accomplish a lot of things no matter how hard I try and want it.
Well if other women feel that way then fine, that's their problem. Go tell them that. Still, in my situation a oppressive male dominance definitely looms over things. It's hard to have been raised for 23 years being told your life depended on getting married by age 21 and becoming a housewife. And you only just realized that you don't have to live according to a older/traditionalist point of view, you can make your own path within reason.
After the day I've had I'm convinced everyone is out to get me or hates me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do come across to me as being someone whom severely dislikes feminists of any sort. I understand if you have had bad experiences with them, but please, I implore you not to see someone whom calls them a feminist as a radical man hater.
I can assure you I (and most of my feminist friends) do not look up to or adhere to anything a femnazi would say. They have done more harm than good and have almost reverted us back to square one when it comes to being taken seriously.
Yes, in your situation. Which I acknowledged before, this male dominance still looms in some parts of America.
I've had days like that, don't worry, after a little relaxation you will feel better.
Um...You're wrong. I have no clue what you're talking about, after all you know nothing about me. I have no dislike of rational feminists like some here on the Forum, for example Welcome to Woodbury is a person I don't "Severely dislike", in fact I respect and enjoy her being on the Forums. I have problem with the feminists who are radical and want superiority or go after outrageous goals that in no way need reformations. Please, calm yourself, you're pulling things out of thin air.
Good job! You're not part of the problem. Sadly, despite what you think about these crazy radicals, a good number of feminists still look up towards these radicals and support them, they are what give feminism a bad name. Again, I know you said you had a bad day and you think everyone is out to get you but I'm not always talking specifically about you, I'm talking in general, if I was talking about you then I would make that crystal clear.
Going to a university where everyone hates you for being you, there's really no day off from that unfortunately. -_-
I'm sorry if I offended, but still, simply going off of text alone can be hard to decipher and to understand someones ulterior motives completely and how someone really feels. Besides, someone can say anything on the internet, it's easy to lie and bullshit. I'm not saying I count you as one, but we must always take what we read or hear with a grain of salt...
But I can say the same to you too, you know little about me and certainly don't know the situation I've been raised in and how much I'm still recovering from it. Still, you say that many feminists nowadays worship femnazi's, so it's hard to distinguish between a rational feminist and a femnazi worshiping feminist when you simply say that most feminists look up to femnazis. In my opinion, you are either a feminist, or a femnazi. And perhaps their is a large population of misguided and radical femnazis and a small portion of well intentioned and mislabeled feminists.
Then take each minute with stride.
Offended? No. I laughed when I saw it.
Not really, you just gotta ask a few questions on their stances of a few different people. I won't state what type of people you should ask their opinion on because that varies from month to month.
Unfair thinking but if you're looking at the basics, sure.
I know you mean well and I'm not going to take away anything from you being supportive, but I'd be very careful saying things like that to people, especially young people. Because having been on the other side of that and having had my aunt say something similar to me, from my own personal experience, it made my emotions feel invalid. I know she meant well, but for me at that age it felt like she wasn't listening to me, and years on my opinion hasn't changed. I've got no intention at all of starting a family, and I know I don't have that in me and it's not the path in life I want to take.
I hope it doesn't feel like I'm jumping down your throat T.T the reason I bring this up is because I've read about it from other people going through the same thing of others saying similar things or really expecting parenthood of them. It's true people can change their minds about stuff, but for something that is a seriously big decision and life changing like starting a family can be, I wish that no matter how old the person is, male or female, when they say 'I don't want kids' that the automatic response that comes to mind from the person or people they tell is just, 'okay,' because some of the things people say back to them can be really hurtful or even damaging sometimes, and it's scary
Feminism, by definition though, is about women. It has nothing to do with men. We'll never be able to have true equality if any sort of feminism is around. We should instead, focus our efforts on egalitarianism.
That's why I keep my shotgun for the fuck shit motherfuckers who expect you to blend in society and do what they say on T.V, and expect you to be in a certain way then become snob-like when you're revealed not to follow the same linear pattern and standards.
I am very delighted to see people like you holding strong against such atrocities to be honest. Just how they act alone substantiates evolution. Reality is harsh beyond comprehension and not everybody gets it easy or otherwise. But I think (my opinion) that it's impossible for there to be "equality" alone, it also depends on how you define equality.
On the other hand, we tend to look back at the less complicated organisms and scrutinize them then we try to constitute "nature", only to realize we are a work of nature ourselves the same as those animals but evolved differently, revolutionized. That's how nature is supposed to work, things evolve. It's complicated you know.
I didn't mean to sound disrespectful towards the OP or anyone who don't want children or family. It's totally okay if you decide not to have a family.
I kinda know what you mean, I got that a lot from people like 5 years ago when I told them I would never want any kids (children used to creep me out, maybe they still do). They looked at me like I was some kind of freak. I said the "age thing" only because I think time can change a lot of things. (I went through a lot of shit in the past 2 years and it absolutely changed my way of seeing life, but I don't want to bore you with that
)
Society still expects it from you, me and everyone. But hey.. don't let anyone tell you what to do and how to live your life or what's considered as "normal".
Short and easy, nobody wants equality everybody wants justice.
You're not the only person being laughed at when pointing out those sort of things, I've witnessed this several times mostly on the internet. I personally share your opinion on this but the society we live in today has less and less limits to what is considered acceptable. Things that a few years ago could have been perceived as shocking are now totally normal. Morals don't have any importance anymore, people just want to do whatever they want without bothering to think if it is right or not.
Unfortunately it is like that everywhere, when I first realized it it made me sad but now it has become so ridiculous that it actually amuses me to see all these people pour their unjustified hatred on people who defend justice and what they believe in. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but I don't think it is ever going to change, actually I even think that it is only going to get worse. And also, since when is being a virgin a thing to be ashamed of ? So it's perfectly okay to sleep with as many people as you want but being a virgin is the worst thing ever ? I really hope the people who think that way are only a very loud minority otherwise I don't even want to think of what the world is going to become in a few years!
You know what ? I feel exactly like you and I have asked myself these questions several times. Some people I know share this belief that women are inferior beings that have to be treated as children because they are too stupid and superficial to do anything important on their own. I can give you an example of how it has affected me with video games. I have been playing video games since I was a child and I never asked myself if it was normal for a girl, it just didn't even cross my mind. I enjoyed it and it made me happy that's all that mattered. But a few years ago I started seeing a lot of hatred towards female gamers, I heard some people say that video games were for men only and that women couldn't possibly be interested in them. I'm glad that there are a lot of female gamers that are starting to use youtube and twitch but if you take any twitch female gamer, you'll notice that a lot of them get sexual comments.
To me all human beings are equal, gender or ethnicity doesn't matter at all. I think people should only be judged based on their actions not on what they are. Concerning equality, once again I don't want to sound too pessimistic but when I see all the hate women get when they try to defend their rights and their beliefs I lose hope and I don't think it is ever going to change. And also, I'm amazed how people, men mostly, don't want to understand that feminism is all about equality and fights against discrimination of women all over the world. Discrimination against women is real, violence against women is too and it is a real problem in our society (and also all over the world) but it seems like nobody cares. All I know is that I won't stop defending this cause because you won't believe how painful the lives of some women are because of the discriminations, because of the violence, harassment and humiliations they have to endure.
Your comment uplifted me a little tonight. Need a good laugh every now and again. Tanks.
True equality may not be possible in our lifetimes.
But that shouldn't settle any kind of discussion. We have to strive for equality anyway. Make a fucking effort.
And maybe, just maybe we can at least be the first generation that understands how that equality could actually look like.
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Equality. Is it simply an idea that dreamers can only imagine, or can it become fact, something real?
Being it gender, race, a combination of these things, etc.
I don't believe so. Equality would mean that the group of privilege would have to give it up and that's a hard ask to fully embrace, even with the improvements make in the last 100 years.
I just have to say you care way too much about what society thinks about you. You say you don't want to be a house wife, then don't. You say you don't want to have children, then don't. I assume you live in a first world country, and I also assume there is no one in your life forcing you into situations you may not find ideal for yourself. If my assumptions are true then do what you please. You sound as if you're wallowing in self pity, and only person that is stopping you from doing something you really want to do is you. I have multiple successful women in my family, mostly all doctors. If they wanted something they went for it, even if it meant moving or going to a different country to obtain their dreams without a man. Take responsibility for your own decisions, and don't worry about what society expects from you. At the end of the day the most society is doing is judging you, but why should you care?
Also please tell me actual rights that you feel men have and you don't.
You and I were obviously raised differently, as no two people are raised the same. I grew up being told that that how others saw me was more important than being true to myself. So yes, I do care too much what others think of me, but old habits die hard and you can't simply overturn a lifetime of one way of thinking about how you ought to be portrayed to the world. I agree with you that people like myself shouldn't care so much what society things of me, but again, I've been taught that how others see me is more important than who I really am.
I'm not referring to anything like voting rights or basic rights every human should have. More the fact that today, several social stigma still exist and that people and groups still hold certain sexist / racist / misguided views of what others do. My main example again is that woman whom choose not to become a mother or a submissive housewife are given more scrutiny then a man who might not want to be a father or settle down. Another example that applies to both sexes and is also an issue with societal views is how childless couples that choose not to have children are considered selfish. I think though that were all aware of the social stigma that still follow every group of person, regardless of gender. Men still have stigma following them just the same as women. Black people still have stigma following them as do white people.
My main point then would be, can we ever allow their to be equality when people will often hold such deeply ingrained views and morals about others?
You will never be able to change a person's perception, no matter what. It's a lost cause. So no the type of "equality" you hope for will never exist unless we resort to brainwashing. These people whom are racist, sexist, or whom have misguided views of others have a right to be that way, given it's their opinion and given in some cases that's just what makes them human; to have our own perceptions and opinions about ourselves and others. In all first world countries social equality exist and opportunities are available for all people, there is no inequality because you're a woman. Now how individuals many perceive you is an entirely different matter. You, a woman have the same liberties as me, a man. Our perceptions of one another will not change that. I'm sorry that your environment is "toxic" and is full of people telling you; you can't do something. But the fact is, you can and as I stated before: the only person stopping you is yourself. I sincerely hope you will not allow others to dictate how you should live your life. So best of luck to you
Sorry I don't understand. I only said the truth based on some things I witnessed and personally experienced. I didn't say video games were a problem for women, I said that there are some people that believe video games are supposed to be enjoyed only or mostly by men. I also saw some women beings criticized for being gamers.