Becausr it wasn't directed at you personally, so why take it personal? I'm white, and if someone told me that white people commit more mass murders I wouldn't take it personally. I would accept it as fact and move on. Just like the fact that women are generally less funny than men. It's not a big deal.
I don't see how I'm not supposed to not take that personally when I'm a woman. And I more than likely fall into the category of not funny. J… moreust another area I fall short in.
And thanks for the concern, but it's basically a lost cause at this point.
I can not agree with you on your statement that in all first world countries social equality between the sexes exists because it simply doesn't. On both the male and female side of equality their exist outliers that favor one over the other. You just said the sort of social equality I hope for will never be obtained unless we resorted to brain washing (which brainwashing is bad any way you look at it.) but how about the social prejudices that still exist? Are they simple truths about the gender or the race, or are those prejudices also taught for us to believe, akin to brainwashing?
And while you're sentiment that people can change their own situations is true, some of us are simply a lost cause and nothing can be done to lift us out of our self imposed self hate and discontent.
You will never be able to change a person's perception, no matter what. It's a lost cause. So no the type of "equality" you hope for will ne… morever exist unless we resort to brainwashing. These people whom are racist, sexist, or whom have misguided views of others have a right to be that way, given it's their opinion and given in some cases that's just what makes them human; to have our own perceptions and opinions about ourselves and others. In all first world countries social equality exist and opportunities are available for all people, there is no inequality because you're a woman. Now how individuals many perceive you is an entirely different matter. You, a woman have the same liberties as me, a man. Our perceptions of one another will not change that. I'm sorry that your environment is "toxic" and is full of people telling you; you can't do something. But the fact is, you can and as I stated before: the only person stopping you is yourself.… [view original content]
You argument embodies the very concept of idealism to change things. But can our idealism to see true equality one day happen trump the facts of human nature and nature in general? I'm beginning to think our idealism to see equality is a hopeless venture.
True equality may not be possible in our lifetimes.
But that shouldn't settle any kind of discussion. We have to strive for equality anyw… moreay. Make a fucking effort.
And maybe, just maybe we can at least be the first generation that understands how that equality could actually look like.
Your post makes me feel much better about everything I've been feeling down on.
Women have always been turned into sexualized objects by many people in history and society. I can't help that I have boobs and a vjj. If that makes me more powerful then I'll accept it. But when people think that because I have these lady bits I'm less of a person then I get angry. I know all to well what you mean about female gamers, I have had many bad experiences myself.
To me all human beings are equal, gender or ethnicity doesn't matter at all. I think people should only be judged based on their actions not on what they are. Concerning equality, once again I don't want to sound too pessimistic but when I see all the hate women get when they try to defend their rights and their beliefs I lose hope and I don't think it is ever going to change. And also, I'm amazed how people, men mostly, don't want to understand that feminism is all about equality and fights against discrimination of women all over the world. Discrimination against women is real, violence against women is too and it is a real problem in our society (and also all over the world) but it seems like nobody cares. All I know is that I won't stop defending this cause because you won't believe how painful the lives of some women are because of the discriminations, because of the violence, harassment and humiliations they have to endure.
Sadly these things are all to real and exist today. I hope one day we can be truly seen as equals, in every part of the world.
Am I just so out of touch with society that sleeping with 19 people is the norm?
You're not the only person being laughed at when po… moreinting out those sort of things, I've witnessed this several times mostly on the internet. I personally share your opinion on this but the society we live in today has less and less limits to what is considered acceptable. Things that a few years ago could have been perceived as shocking are now totally normal. Morals don't have any importance anymore, people just want to do whatever they want without bothering to think if it is right or not.
I am so loosely a feminist, because whenever I say something about agreeing with a feminist I get told I'm a crazy (often people include the word liberal) bitter, virgin, whom hates men and wants them to be servants to women.
Unfortunately it is like that everywhere, when I first realized it it made me sad but now it has become so ridiculous that it act… [view original content]
So yeah, I have very little to no feeling of self worth, I don't think that will ever change because I feel I inherently know it to be true.
Apologies for butting in, but I wanted to chime in and say that I very much doubt this to be the case. If you truly, inherently, had no feelings self-worth, you wouldn’t be on here. The only reason you would go onto a forum and volunteer your thoughts about various subject matters to random strangers online is if you felt that you are someone who contributes something special and worth sharing. I think that deep down you do feel a sense of self worth. And the reason you constantly repeat to yourself and others that you don’t is because, on some level, you suspect that things that you say about yourself are wrong. That you are someone who is worthy and capable of achieving love and happiness in her life, if only you would try. Because trying is hard and painful and may end in failure, so maybe it would be easier to just look at the way things are and convince yourself that they’re the way they should be.
It’s like how you’re approaching the issue of the historical superiority of males over females. You phrase your topic title as “Fact vs Idealism” and ask “is it best for me to simply accept that, as a female, I am inferior?” seemingly resigned to the idea that males are in fact superior. But you don’t really believe that, do you? You just see the long, arduous task in trying to achieve equality and want to believe that it’s impossible and that this is the way things are supposed to be, because that gives you an excuse to stop. But I don't think you'd ever really be able to stop. There’ll always be that part of you that knows what you really hold to be true and it’ll always be nagging at you to stop pretending it isn’t there.
My advice is to stop telling yourself these lies. That you’re worthless. That you’re inferior as a woman. You know what the truth is.
I've always hated myself. It's been a vicious cycle since birth, of how I was raised and the enviroment I was raised in. So yeah, I have ver… morey little to no feeling of self worth, I don't think that will ever change because I feel I inherently know it to be true.
Plus im having a horrible day at school. And feel hated on both the Internet and in real life.
I come to others to search for the answers, but sometimes only I can answer questions I have. But I feel so unsure of myself, that I can not accept that I might have a bit of good and worth in me. Sometimes I just want others to validate that, to tell me I am worthless. In some weird way, that makes me want to challenge that idea of someone thinking I'm worthless. I'm just a paradox, I know that.
And you are very right on your second paragraph. Maybe I have just accepted that I'm inferior because it's too daunting of a task to try trying to find equality. But knowing from others if that is in fact true or false can help encourage me either way, to feel like I women can be valued on the same plane as men, or that it's simply fact that I as a woman am inferior, and I can either quietly seethe or resign myself to an unchangeable truth.
There’ll always be that part of you that knows what you really hold to be true and it’ll always be nagging at you to stop pretending it isn’t there.
But that nagging feeling you are talking about, where it should be me believing in making myself worthy to be equal, tells me that I am wrong and that I'm fighting against the fact that men are better than women. That my gender role makes me inferior. And at the same time you're right, another voice nags at me that it is wrong to think that way. But until I can stop going to others and hearing how they still believe that women are inferior, I don't know what to truly believe.
I wish I knew what the truth was, otherwise I wouldn't be asking others.
So yeah, I have very little to no feeling of self worth, I don't think that will ever change because I feel I inherently know it to be true.… more
Apologies for butting in, but I wanted to chime in and say that I very much doubt this to be the case. If you truly, inherently, had no feelings self-worth, you wouldn’t be on here. The only reason you would go onto a forum and volunteer your thoughts about various subject matters to random strangers online is if you felt that you are someone who contributes something special and worth sharing. I think that deep down you do feel a sense of self worth. And the reason you constantly repeat to yourself and others that you don’t is because, on some level, you suspect that things that you say about yourself are wrong. That you are someone who is worthy and capable of achieving love and happiness in her life, if only you would try. Because trying is hard and painful and may end in failure, so maybe it … [view original content]
In some weird way, that makes me want to challenge that idea of someone thinking I'm worthless. I'm just a paradox, I know that.
No, I get it. I have that sort of devil's advocate streak as well. It's good that you have that instinct. But maybe try taking a more...pre-emptive approach to declaring your worth.
But knowing from others if that is in fact true or false can help encourage me either way
Well, then I'm sorry to say that you just can't do that. "Others" are just as clueless as you or anyone else. The question you're asking isn't even really something that can be ascertained as true or false. Are women inferior to men? Are carpenters inferior to bakers? Are gymnasts inferior to boxers? There are no stable, objective values to men and women. Even if as a collective, all the subjective values of every person towards men and women ends up favoring one over the other, it still doesn't say diddly squat about what the truth is. Because there isn't one.
But until I can stop going to others and hearing how they still believe that women are inferior, I don't know what to truly believe.
There are people who believe that Donald Trump would make a good president. Does that make you uncertain about Trump's ability to lead this country? Or does it just make you more certain that a large portion of humanity is made up of complete morons?
I come to others to search for the answers, but sometimes only I can answer questions I have. But I feel so unsure of myself, that I can not… more accept that I might have a bit of good and worth in me. Sometimes I just want others to validate that, to tell me I am worthless. In some weird way, that makes me want to challenge that idea of someone thinking I'm worthless. I'm just a paradox, I know that.
And you are very right on your second paragraph. Maybe I have just accepted that I'm inferior because it's too daunting of a task to try trying to find equality. But knowing from others if that is in fact true or false can help encourage me either way, to feel like I women can be valued on the same plane as men, or that it's simply fact that I as a woman am inferior, and I can either quietly seethe or resign myself to an unchangeable truth.
There’ll always be that part of you that knows what you really hold to be true and it’ll always be nag… [view original content]
I'd rather have someone give me their completely honest opinion on my worth, rather than them say things in an attempt to make me feel better. Even if the truth hurts, it should be known.
That's a very good point though. Perhaps it's something beyond humanity completely understanding and dealing with.
There are people who believe that Donald Trump would make a good president. Does that make you uncertain about Trump's ability to lead this country? Or does it just make you more certain that a large portion of humanity is made up of complete morons?
That is an amazing point. I know for a fact the men who told me that my place in the world was only for making sandwiches and sucking dick (A group of men once told me that...) were misogynists and completely false. But it made me wonder, if a group of men would believe that, could it be that perhaps all of them believed that too? I hate labeling a group, but shit like that doesn't just pass you by without you being severely affected by such a frame of mind of a 'modern' group of society's own people.
In some weird way, that makes me want to challenge that idea of someone thinking I'm worthless. I'm just a paradox, I know that.
No,… more I get it. I have that sort of devil's advocate streak as well. It's good that you have that instinct. But maybe try taking a more...pre-emptive approach to declaring your worth.
But knowing from others if that is in fact true or false can help encourage me either way
Well, then I'm sorry to say that you just can't do that. "Others" are just as clueless as you or anyone else. The question you're asking isn't even really something that can be ascertained as true or false. Are women inferior to men? Are carpenters inferior to bakers? Are gymnasts inferior to boxers? There are no stable, objective values to men and women. Even if as a collective, all the subjective values of every person towards men and women ends up favoring one over the other, it still doesn't say diddly squat about what the… [view original content]
I know this is late, but thank you very much for your opinion on this subject. It was very well written and I very much sympathize and appreciate your views and stance on such things.
That's why I keep my shotgun for the fuck shit motherfuckers who expect you to blend in society and do what they say on T.V, and expect you … moreto be in a certain way then become snob-like when you're revealed not to follow the same linear pattern and standards.
I am very delighted to see people like you holding strong against such atrocities to be honest. Just how they act alone substantiates evolution. Reality is harsh beyond comprehension and not everybody gets it easy or otherwise. But I think (my opinion) that it's impossible for there to be "equality" alone, it also depends on how you define equality.
On the other hand, we tend to look back at the less complicated organisms and scrutinize them then we try to constitute "nature", only to realize we are a work of nature ourselves the same as those animals but evolved differently, revolutionized. That's how nature is supposed to work, things evolve. It's complicated you know.
Am I just so out of touch with society that sleeping with 19 people is the norm?
Maybe. Society is quickly viewing anyone that hasn’… moret had sex as inhuman and not normal. I guess nowadays sleeping with 19 people has become the norm.
since humans are also animals (if you believe in evolution) that males will continue to be the dominant sex?
Most likely, yes. Although the human species is very different from other species because we broke away from our survival instincts and now almost every human has lost the ability/instinct to hunt for food in the wilderness; we are still very much animals and that means we still have strong instincts. Males will always be more powerful, they are the ones with the build to go off hunting, they are the ones that… Ok I can’t really think of anything else right now but from instinct men are the ones who are the leaders, not woman. However, since our species has broken away from most instinct… [view original content]
Again, there is no truth to be known. You aren't a piece of property whose value can be measured in dollars and cents. You're a human being. You get to determine your own worth. Other people can have their opinions, but no one no matter how important or no matter how many there are can tell you how much you're worth.
When you berate yourself like that, of course people are going to try to make you feel better. It doesn't mean they're also not telling the truth (double negative...ugh). From your behavior on here, you seem to be a perfectly decent person who for some reason or another has a tendency to say needlessly cruel things about yourself. Now who knows, maybe you murder kittens when you're not on here discussing video games. But based solely on the information available from your online presence, there isn't really any hurtful "truth" that can be said about you.
But it made me wonder, if a group of men would believe that, could it be that perhaps all of them believed that too?
That's an odd leap of logic there. I assumed you've met men who haven't told you those things. Seems weird to extrapolate from just a group of jerks, who honestly probably don't even actually believe what they told you. Not all hurtful things are said with complete sincerity after all.
You need to learn to stop latching on to other people's opinions. That's not to say that you need to completely ignore them. But recognize them for what they are. Flawed, rough estimates of truths that may not even exist.
I'd rather have someone give me their completely honest opinion on my worth, rather than them say things in an attempt to make me feel bette… morer. Even if the truth hurts, it should be known.
That's a very good point though. Perhaps it's something beyond humanity completely understanding and dealing with.
There are people who believe that Donald Trump would make a good president. Does that make you uncertain about Trump's ability to lead this country? Or does it just make you more certain that a large portion of humanity is made up of complete morons?
That is an amazing point. I know for a fact the men who told me that my place in the world was only for making sandwiches and sucking dick (A group of men once told me that...) were misogynists and completely false. But it made me wonder, if a group of men would believe that, could it be that perhaps all of them believed that too? I hate labeling a group, but shit like that doesn't … [view original content]
Don't worry, I don't do anything like that. I just feel as if, if I give myself some slack, it'll catch up and I'll become too self absorbed, so I just try to keep myself grounded in trying to reiterate to myself I'm not all that great of a person. Again, any accomplishment I do make is immediately overshadowed by the fact that others remind me if could've been done sooner, it could've been done better, you could've been better. Even without others saying things like that, the things I accomplish alone I often feel as if I could've done or been better.
And as for the leap of logic, in my real life I don't know many guys. So when I have no basis for other men except for a horrible group who made me feel like a slave to male pleasure, I can only assume that if the only ones who have spoken to me feel that way, than a large group must also feel that way. I know it's generalization of the male gender, but I can't help but feel that all a woman is seen as to some guys. I just want people to prove me wrong that not all men value a woman based on if she can make a sandwhich(or food in general) or suck a dick (and I have slowly learned that there are some guys out there who don't solely base a woman on her worth by those two factors)... And if this is true that that's all I'm worth, then I'm not sure I ever want to become someone's wife. Again, I don't think every man is this way, or at least I hope not every man is this way.
I don't trust people very well in case you haven't noticed... I do take everything I hear with a grain of salt. I ask others for their opinions because if something can be generalized in the statements of a population I can better understand the norms of society and feel more normal I guess.
Again, there is no truth to be known. You aren't a piece of property whose value can be measured in dollars and cents. You're a human being.… more You get to determine your own worth. Other people can have their opinions, but no one no matter how important or no matter how many there are can tell you how much you're worth.
When you berate yourself like that, of course people are going to try to make you feel better. It doesn't mean they're also not telling the truth (double negative...ugh). From your behavior on here, you seem to be a perfectly decent person who for some reason or another has a tendency to say needlessly cruel things about yourself. Now who knows, maybe you murder kittens when you're not on here discussing video games. But based solely on the information available from your online presence, there isn't really any hurtful "truth" that can be said about you.
But it made me wonder, if a group of men would believe that, could … [view original content]
Even without others saying things like that, the things I accomplish alone I often feel as if I could've done or been better.
Do you hold others to such a high standard or just yourself? Things can of course always be better and it's fine to recognize that. But it shouldn't lead to you never feeling satisfied with your accomplishments.
I have no basis for other men except for a horrible group who made me feel like a slave to male pleasure
Not sure in what context and capacity you know these guys, but if they're friends of yours, it's possible they were just kidding around and saying things just to piss you off. Guys...do that. It's how we test boundaries.
And as for the leap of logic, in my real life I don't know many guys... I just want people to prove me wrong that not all men value a woman based on if she can make a sandwhich(or food in general) or suck a dick...
You mean value a woman as a significant other? I get why those two things would be high on guy's lists, though certainly not the only things on the list. Everybody likes to eat well and have sexual pleasure in a marriage. I'm sure you would also value a man who's willing to do chores around the house and is attentive to your needs in bed. But good, long lasting relationships aren't just built on sex and housework. They're built on companionship. You have to enjoy each other's company enough so that you want to make each other happy via meals, sex, etc. Then those thing would no longer be seen as "roles" or "duties" but as avenues to express love and care for one another.
Don't worry, I don't do anything like that. I just feel as if, if I give myself some slack, it'll catch up and I'll become too self absorbed… more, so I just try to keep myself grounded in trying to reiterate to myself I'm not all that great of a person. Again, any accomplishment I do make is immediately overshadowed by the fact that others remind me if could've been done sooner, it could've been done better, you could've been better. Even without others saying things like that, the things I accomplish alone I often feel as if I could've done or been better.
And as for the leap of logic, in my real life I don't know many guys. So when I have no basis for other men except for a horrible group who made me feel like a slave to male pleasure, I can only assume that if the only ones who have spoken to me feel that way, than a large group must also feel that way. I know it's generalization of the male gender, but I can't help but feel that all a woman… [view original content]
I don't really. I guess I hold myself to higher standards.
The context of that situation was with a online community. These people were not my friends and I would never want to know them in real life. When I was opposed to a certain way some guys were saying they wanted their women to be, I spoke out. They then turned around and told me what they did. It scared me. And I talked to a few other online guys about it, and I couldn't trust them on their views that they didn't feel that way about women. But I'm curious now, you'd say those things to test boundaries? What sort of boundaries? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying.
I understand what you mean there. Sex and food are basic human needs. I'm not faulting anyone (male or female) for wanting those. But when people make me feel like my value as a woman hinges on those two things I feel horrible, and I question 'love' and companionship.
Then those thing would no longer be seen as "roles" or "duties" but as avenues to express love and care for one another.
I guess that's what I'm trying to discern at the moment. Should each gender be expected to perform certain duties because of their gender? Again, my situation has left me confused on if my value as a woman can only be measured by those two things and how well I can perform them.
Even without others saying things like that, the things I accomplish alone I often feel as if I could've done or been better.
Do you… more hold others to such a high standard or just yourself? Things can of course always be better and it's fine to recognize that. But it shouldn't lead to you never feeling satisfied with your accomplishments.
I have no basis for other men except for a horrible group who made me feel like a slave to male pleasure
Not sure in what context and capacity you know these guys, but if they're friends of yours, it's possible they were just kidding around and saying things just to piss you off. Guys...do that. It's how we test boundaries.
And as for the leap of logic, in my real life I don't know many guys... I just want people to prove me wrong that not all men value a woman based on if she can make a sandwhich(or food in general) or suck a dick...
You mean value a woman as a significant o… [view original content]
The context of that situation was with a online community.
It's entirely possible that you were actually just talking to a bunch of 14-year-olds or something, then.
But I'm curious now, you'd say those things to test boundaries? What sort of boundaries?
Boundaries of what kinds of jokes people can put up with. It's good to know where your friends draw the line when it comes to humor because it lets you see how sensitive or relaxed you should be around them. So if you say some outrageous thing in jest and your friend reacts very negatively, then you know not to joke about those things in front of them again.
Should each gender be expected to perform certain duties because of their gender?
Well, I think there are general traits that one gender tends to exhibit more than the other and that does influence the kinds of "duties" associated with that gender. Men tend to be physically stronger, so we tend to be expected to perform physicals tasks. Women tend to be more nurturing, so we tend to expect them to perform care-taker roles. Expectations aren't commandments, though. If a guy is a 5-star chef, he's not forced into letting his wife do the cooking because that's her "role." He's clearly better at her at the task. He should be the one to do it. As for the sex thing, there's just a general expectation that you keep your partner satisfied. It's not really a gender-based "role" or "duty" kind of thing. If your partner has a certain equipment, it helps for you to be willing to, uh, "interact" with said equipment, regardless of whether you're male or female. And if you aren't then, you aren't. It's important that you negotiate with your partner about the kinds of acts you are and are not comfortable with in a relationship.
I don't really. I guess I hold myself to higher standards.
The context of that situation was with a online community. These people were n… moreot my friends and I would never want to know them in real life. When I was opposed to a certain way some guys were saying they wanted their women to be, I spoke out. They then turned around and told me what they did. It scared me. And I talked to a few other online guys about it, and I couldn't trust them on their views that they didn't feel that way about women. But I'm curious now, you'd say those things to test boundaries? What sort of boundaries? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying.
I understand what you mean there. Sex and food are basic human needs. I'm not faulting anyone (male or female) for wanting those. But when people make me feel like my value as a woman hinges on those two things I feel horrible, and I question 'love' and companionship.
Then those thing would no lo… [view original content]
Well, as you all know, I have many old school viewpoints on things. I know that they are not popular, nor are they politically correct. And to be perfectly honest, I'm fine with that! It doesn't matter to me whether people agree with me or not, I'm going to stand by my beliefs and my principles despite what others might think.
That's part of being an individual, which means you have your own way of looking at things, and part of the being a man is that you stand by your viewpoints and beliefs when you feel you are right.
Personally, I believe that the man is the head of the household, and if he is married, that he is the one to be responsible for making the ultimate decisions regarding the family, and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions. On the other hand I also believe that he should love and treat his wife with dignity and respect, after all she is the mother of his children.
And that she, as his wife, she should also respect her husband.
That being said, I feel that a man has the right to forbid his wife from doing certain things.
For example, if she say she wants to invest their money in a business venture.
But he is uncomfortable with her doing so, either because he doesn't like the the type of business it is, or because he feels it would to risky to invest money in.
In that case, being the head of the family, I feel that he has the right to forbid her to get involved in it, and that out of respect for him as her husband, she should comply.
Nevertheless, I feel that a man should always be kind and loving toward his wife.
I feel that a man should always take his wife's feelings into consideration, but that the final decision about a matter lies with him.
I also believe, that certain jobs should only be for men, like being policemen, firemen, construction workers, etc.
Not saying that women can't do those jobs, nor that they can't be good at them!
But out of respect for the man being the leader of the family, I think that those jobs should be strictly for Men.
Now I know that everything I said here goes against the feminist movement, and is therefore not considered politically correct. But these are my beliefs, and I have tried to state them in the most respectful way that I know how. I am trying to be respectful, yet truthful about how I feel and about my beliefs.
Your comment makes it very hard for me to follow the "civil" part of the title.
I really don't know why you see things in such black-and-white terms. My personal opinion is that the default assumption should be that a marriage is a partnership of equals. At the same time, I can admit that every marriage is different, and that sometimes it makes sense for someone to take charge. Sometimes the man should be in charge sometimes the woman. Beyond basic stuff like "don't be violent," I'm very uncomfortable with telling people how their relationships should function. What works for one couple won't for another.
Also, I can't believe that a Walking Dead fan believes this stuff. A big part of the series is the empowerment of women. You think that Clem would allow herself to be dominated by a man? Or that Christa and Omid's relationship functioned like that?
Well, as you all know, I have many old school viewpoints on things. I know that they are not popular, nor are they politically correct. And … moreto be perfectly honest, I'm fine with that! It doesn't matter to me whether people agree with me or not, I'm going to stand by my beliefs and my principles despite what others might think.
That's part of being an individual, which means you have your own way of looking at things, and part of the being a man is that you stand by your viewpoints and beliefs when you feel you are right.
Personally, I believe that the man is the head of the household, and if he is married, that he is the one to be responsible for making the ultimate decisions regarding the family, and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions. On the other hand I also believe that he should love and treat his wife with dignity and respect, after all she is the mother of his children.
And that she, as his wife, she should also… [view original content]
Although I disagree with your opinion I respect it and I like the fact that you shared it in a respectful manner. But there is one thing you said that makes me curious:
I also believe, that certain jobs should only be for men, like being policemen, firemen, construction workers, etc.
Does that mean that if you had a daughter and she aspired to work in the police for example you wouldn't let her ? Even is it was what she wanted to do the most and was one of her biggest dreams ? Would you explain to her that because she was born a woman instead of a man there are certain things that she shouldn't be doing ?
Well, as you all know, I have many old school viewpoints on things. I know that they are not popular, nor are they politically correct. And … moreto be perfectly honest, I'm fine with that! It doesn't matter to me whether people agree with me or not, I'm going to stand by my beliefs and my principles despite what others might think.
That's part of being an individual, which means you have your own way of looking at things, and part of the being a man is that you stand by your viewpoints and beliefs when you feel you are right.
Personally, I believe that the man is the head of the household, and if he is married, that he is the one to be responsible for making the ultimate decisions regarding the family, and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions. On the other hand I also believe that he should love and treat his wife with dignity and respect, after all she is the mother of his children.
And that she, as his wife, she should also… [view original content]
Well, as you all know, I have many old school viewpoints on things. I know that they are not popular, nor are they politically correct. And … moreto be perfectly honest, I'm fine with that! It doesn't matter to me whether people agree with me or not, I'm going to stand by my beliefs and my principles despite what others might think.
That's part of being an individual, which means you have your own way of looking at things, and part of the being a man is that you stand by your viewpoints and beliefs when you feel you are right.
Personally, I believe that the man is the head of the household, and if he is married, that he is the one to be responsible for making the ultimate decisions regarding the family, and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions. On the other hand I also believe that he should love and treat his wife with dignity and respect, after all she is the mother of his children.
And that she, as his wife, she should also… [view original content]
Are you basically saying that women should be submissive to men? And that gender equality is a bad thing?
I feel that a man has the right to forbid his wife from doing certain things.
I feel that he has the right to forbid her to get involved in it, and that out of respect for him as her husband, she should comply
and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions
When men make a decision, their wives have to support them. But when women make a decision, their husbands have the right to ''forbid'' them. Do you even understand what you're saying here?
I'm sorry Kenny/Lee, I do respect your opinion, but you shouldn't hide yourself behind religion and 'traditional values' in order to justify sexism. Women fought for gender equality. Women in 3rd world countries are still fighthing for equality and then you come up with this regressive thinking. I couldn't disagree more with you.
Well, as you all know, I have many old school viewpoints on things. I know that they are not popular, nor are they politically correct. And … moreto be perfectly honest, I'm fine with that! It doesn't matter to me whether people agree with me or not, I'm going to stand by my beliefs and my principles despite what others might think.
That's part of being an individual, which means you have your own way of looking at things, and part of the being a man is that you stand by your viewpoints and beliefs when you feel you are right.
Personally, I believe that the man is the head of the household, and if he is married, that he is the one to be responsible for making the ultimate decisions regarding the family, and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions. On the other hand I also believe that he should love and treat his wife with dignity and respect, after all she is the mother of his children.
And that she, as his wife, she should also… [view original content]
I think leadership roles should be filled by whoever is most capable. After all, with any king of structure or set of rules, you'd want the best results. So it makes sense to put whoever can most effectively lead in a leadership role. Same with jobs. When it comes to emergency services like police and firefighters, services which can and have saved countless lives, then we need to put the most capable people in those roles.
I'll finish with this: I have NO problem with women in leadership roles or in traditionally 'manly' jobs. But if women want equal rights and opportunities, then they should be held up to the same standards. If men can't hit women, then women shouldn't be allowed to hit men. If male rapists go to jail, then so should female rapists. If a woman wants the same pay as a man, then she should have to do the same amount of work as a man. If women want equality, then they have to take all of it, not just the stuff that appeals to them.
Well, as you all know, I have many old school viewpoints on things. I know that they are not popular, nor are they politically correct. And … moreto be perfectly honest, I'm fine with that! It doesn't matter to me whether people agree with me or not, I'm going to stand by my beliefs and my principles despite what others might think.
That's part of being an individual, which means you have your own way of looking at things, and part of the being a man is that you stand by your viewpoints and beliefs when you feel you are right.
Personally, I believe that the man is the head of the household, and if he is married, that he is the one to be responsible for making the ultimate decisions regarding the family, and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions. On the other hand I also believe that he should love and treat his wife with dignity and respect, after all she is the mother of his children.
And that she, as his wife, she should also… [view original content]
Comments
Becausr it wasn't directed at you personally, so why take it personal? I'm white, and if someone told me that white people commit more mass murders I wouldn't take it personally. I would accept it as fact and move on. Just like the fact that women are generally less funny than men. It's not a big deal.
I can not agree with you on your statement that in all first world countries social equality between the sexes exists because it simply doesn't. On both the male and female side of equality their exist outliers that favor one over the other. You just said the sort of social equality I hope for will never be obtained unless we resorted to brain washing (which brainwashing is bad any way you look at it.) but how about the social prejudices that still exist? Are they simple truths about the gender or the race, or are those prejudices also taught for us to believe, akin to brainwashing?
And while you're sentiment that people can change their own situations is true, some of us are simply a lost cause and nothing can be done to lift us out of our self imposed self hate and discontent.
You argument embodies the very concept of idealism to change things. But can our idealism to see true equality one day happen trump the facts of human nature and nature in general? I'm beginning to think our idealism to see equality is a hopeless venture.
Your post makes me feel much better about everything I've been feeling down on.
Women have always been turned into sexualized objects by many people in history and society. I can't help that I have boobs and a vjj. If that makes me more powerful then I'll accept it. But when people think that because I have these lady bits I'm less of a person then I get angry. I know all to well what you mean about female gamers, I have had many bad experiences myself.
Sadly these things are all to real and exist today. I hope one day we can be truly seen as equals, in every part of the world.
Apologies for butting in, but I wanted to chime in and say that I very much doubt this to be the case. If you truly, inherently, had no feelings self-worth, you wouldn’t be on here. The only reason you would go onto a forum and volunteer your thoughts about various subject matters to random strangers online is if you felt that you are someone who contributes something special and worth sharing. I think that deep down you do feel a sense of self worth. And the reason you constantly repeat to yourself and others that you don’t is because, on some level, you suspect that things that you say about yourself are wrong. That you are someone who is worthy and capable of achieving love and happiness in her life, if only you would try. Because trying is hard and painful and may end in failure, so maybe it would be easier to just look at the way things are and convince yourself that they’re the way they should be.
It’s like how you’re approaching the issue of the historical superiority of males over females. You phrase your topic title as “Fact vs Idealism” and ask “is it best for me to simply accept that, as a female, I am inferior?” seemingly resigned to the idea that males are in fact superior. But you don’t really believe that, do you? You just see the long, arduous task in trying to achieve equality and want to believe that it’s impossible and that this is the way things are supposed to be, because that gives you an excuse to stop. But I don't think you'd ever really be able to stop. There’ll always be that part of you that knows what you really hold to be true and it’ll always be nagging at you to stop pretending it isn’t there.
My advice is to stop telling yourself these lies. That you’re worthless. That you’re inferior as a woman. You know what the truth is.
I come to others to search for the answers, but sometimes only I can answer questions I have. But I feel so unsure of myself, that I can not accept that I might have a bit of good and worth in me. Sometimes I just want others to validate that, to tell me I am worthless. In some weird way, that makes me want to challenge that idea of someone thinking I'm worthless. I'm just a paradox, I know that.
And you are very right on your second paragraph. Maybe I have just accepted that I'm inferior because it's too daunting of a task to try trying to find equality. But knowing from others if that is in fact true or false can help encourage me either way, to feel like I women can be valued on the same plane as men, or that it's simply fact that I as a woman am inferior, and I can either quietly seethe or resign myself to an unchangeable truth.
But that nagging feeling you are talking about, where it should be me believing in making myself worthy to be equal, tells me that I am wrong and that I'm fighting against the fact that men are better than women. That my gender role makes me inferior. And at the same time you're right, another voice nags at me that it is wrong to think that way. But until I can stop going to others and hearing how they still believe that women are inferior, I don't know what to truly believe.
I wish I knew what the truth was, otherwise I wouldn't be asking others.
No, I get it. I have that sort of devil's advocate streak as well. It's good that you have that instinct. But maybe try taking a more...pre-emptive approach to declaring your worth.
Well, then I'm sorry to say that you just can't do that. "Others" are just as clueless as you or anyone else. The question you're asking isn't even really something that can be ascertained as true or false. Are women inferior to men? Are carpenters inferior to bakers? Are gymnasts inferior to boxers? There are no stable, objective values to men and women. Even if as a collective, all the subjective values of every person towards men and women ends up favoring one over the other, it still doesn't say diddly squat about what the truth is. Because there isn't one.
There are people who believe that Donald Trump would make a good president. Does that make you uncertain about Trump's ability to lead this country? Or does it just make you more certain that a large portion of humanity is made up of complete morons?
I'd rather have someone give me their completely honest opinion on my worth, rather than them say things in an attempt to make me feel better. Even if the truth hurts, it should be known.
That's a very good point though. Perhaps it's something beyond humanity completely understanding and dealing with.
That is an amazing point. I know for a fact the men who told me that my place in the world was only for making sandwiches and sucking dick (A group of men once told me that...) were misogynists and completely false. But it made me wonder, if a group of men would believe that, could it be that perhaps all of them believed that too? I hate labeling a group, but shit like that doesn't just pass you by without you being severely affected by such a frame of mind of a 'modern' group of society's own people.
I know this is late, but thank you very much for your opinion on this subject. It was very well written and I very much sympathize and appreciate your views and stance on such things.
Thank you very much for your detailed opinions and thoughts on the matter. They are great food for thought.
You brought up a lot I need to consider.
Again, there is no truth to be known. You aren't a piece of property whose value can be measured in dollars and cents. You're a human being. You get to determine your own worth. Other people can have their opinions, but no one no matter how important or no matter how many there are can tell you how much you're worth.
When you berate yourself like that, of course people are going to try to make you feel better. It doesn't mean they're also not telling the truth (double negative...ugh). From your behavior on here, you seem to be a perfectly decent person who for some reason or another has a tendency to say needlessly cruel things about yourself. Now who knows, maybe you murder kittens when you're not on here discussing video games. But based solely on the information available from your online presence, there isn't really any hurtful "truth" that can be said about you.
That's an odd leap of logic there. I assumed you've met men who haven't told you those things. Seems weird to extrapolate from just a group of jerks, who honestly probably don't even actually believe what they told you. Not all hurtful things are said with complete sincerity after all.
You need to learn to stop latching on to other people's opinions. That's not to say that you need to completely ignore them. But recognize them for what they are. Flawed, rough estimates of truths that may not even exist.
Don't worry, I don't do anything like that. I just feel as if, if I give myself some slack, it'll catch up and I'll become too self absorbed, so I just try to keep myself grounded in trying to reiterate to myself I'm not all that great of a person. Again, any accomplishment I do make is immediately overshadowed by the fact that others remind me if could've been done sooner, it could've been done better, you could've been better. Even without others saying things like that, the things I accomplish alone I often feel as if I could've done or been better.
And as for the leap of logic, in my real life I don't know many guys. So when I have no basis for other men except for a horrible group who made me feel like a slave to male pleasure, I can only assume that if the only ones who have spoken to me feel that way, than a large group must also feel that way. I know it's generalization of the male gender, but I can't help but feel that all a woman is seen as to some guys. I just want people to prove me wrong that not all men value a woman based on if she can make a sandwhich(or food in general) or suck a dick (and I have slowly learned that there are some guys out there who don't solely base a woman on her worth by those two factors)... And if this is true that that's all I'm worth, then I'm not sure I ever want to become someone's wife. Again, I don't think every man is this way, or at least I hope not every man is this way.
I don't trust people very well in case you haven't noticed... I do take everything I hear with a grain of salt. I ask others for their opinions because if something can be generalized in the statements of a population I can better understand the norms of society and feel more normal I guess.
Do you hold others to such a high standard or just yourself? Things can of course always be better and it's fine to recognize that. But it shouldn't lead to you never feeling satisfied with your accomplishments.
Not sure in what context and capacity you know these guys, but if they're friends of yours, it's possible they were just kidding around and saying things just to piss you off. Guys...do that. It's how we test boundaries.
You mean value a woman as a significant other? I get why those two things would be high on guy's lists, though certainly not the only things on the list. Everybody likes to eat well and have sexual pleasure in a marriage. I'm sure you would also value a man who's willing to do chores around the house and is attentive to your needs in bed. But good, long lasting relationships aren't just built on sex and housework. They're built on companionship. You have to enjoy each other's company enough so that you want to make each other happy via meals, sex, etc. Then those thing would no longer be seen as "roles" or "duties" but as avenues to express love and care for one another.
I don't really. I guess I hold myself to higher standards.
The context of that situation was with a online community. These people were not my friends and I would never want to know them in real life. When I was opposed to a certain way some guys were saying they wanted their women to be, I spoke out. They then turned around and told me what they did. It scared me. And I talked to a few other online guys about it, and I couldn't trust them on their views that they didn't feel that way about women. But I'm curious now, you'd say those things to test boundaries? What sort of boundaries? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying.
I understand what you mean there. Sex and food are basic human needs. I'm not faulting anyone (male or female) for wanting those. But when people make me feel like my value as a woman hinges on those two things I feel horrible, and I question 'love' and companionship.
I guess that's what I'm trying to discern at the moment. Should each gender be expected to perform certain duties because of their gender? Again, my situation has left me confused on if my value as a woman can only be measured by those two things and how well I can perform them.
It's entirely possible that you were actually just talking to a bunch of 14-year-olds or something, then.
Boundaries of what kinds of jokes people can put up with. It's good to know where your friends draw the line when it comes to humor because it lets you see how sensitive or relaxed you should be around them. So if you say some outrageous thing in jest and your friend reacts very negatively, then you know not to joke about those things in front of them again.
Well, I think there are general traits that one gender tends to exhibit more than the other and that does influence the kinds of "duties" associated with that gender. Men tend to be physically stronger, so we tend to be expected to perform physicals tasks. Women tend to be more nurturing, so we tend to expect them to perform care-taker roles. Expectations aren't commandments, though. If a guy is a 5-star chef, he's not forced into letting his wife do the cooking because that's her "role." He's clearly better at her at the task. He should be the one to do it. As for the sex thing, there's just a general expectation that you keep your partner satisfied. It's not really a gender-based "role" or "duty" kind of thing. If your partner has a certain equipment, it helps for you to be willing to, uh, "interact" with said equipment, regardless of whether you're male or female. And if you aren't then, you aren't. It's important that you negotiate with your partner about the kinds of acts you are and are not comfortable with in a relationship.
Well, as you all know, I have many old school viewpoints on things. I know that they are not popular, nor are they politically correct. And to be perfectly honest, I'm fine with that! It doesn't matter to me whether people agree with me or not, I'm going to stand by my beliefs and my principles despite what others might think.
That's part of being an individual, which means you have your own way of looking at things, and part of the being a man is that you stand by your viewpoints and beliefs when you feel you are right.
Personally, I believe that the man is the head of the household, and if he is married, that he is the one to be responsible for making the ultimate decisions regarding the family, and that his wife should be supportive of those decisions. On the other hand I also believe that he should love and treat his wife with dignity and respect, after all she is the mother of his children.
And that she, as his wife, she should also respect her husband.
That being said, I feel that a man has the right to forbid his wife from doing certain things.
For example, if she say she wants to invest their money in a business venture.
But he is uncomfortable with her doing so, either because he doesn't like the the type of business it is, or because he feels it would to risky to invest money in.
In that case, being the head of the family, I feel that he has the right to forbid her to get involved in it, and that out of respect for him as her husband, she should comply.
Nevertheless, I feel that a man should always be kind and loving toward his wife.
I feel that a man should always take his wife's feelings into consideration, but that the final decision about a matter lies with him.
I also believe, that certain jobs should only be for men, like being policemen, firemen, construction workers, etc.
Not saying that women can't do those jobs, nor that they can't be good at them!
But out of respect for the man being the leader of the family, I think that those jobs should be strictly for Men.
Now I know that everything I said here goes against the feminist movement, and is therefore not considered politically correct. But these are my beliefs, and I have tried to state them in the most respectful way that I know how. I am trying to be respectful, yet truthful about how I feel and about my beliefs.
Your comment makes it very hard for me to follow the "civil" part of the title.
I really don't know why you see things in such black-and-white terms. My personal opinion is that the default assumption should be that a marriage is a partnership of equals. At the same time, I can admit that every marriage is different, and that sometimes it makes sense for someone to take charge. Sometimes the man should be in charge sometimes the woman. Beyond basic stuff like "don't be violent," I'm very uncomfortable with telling people how their relationships should function. What works for one couple won't for another.
Also, I can't believe that a Walking Dead fan believes this stuff. A big part of the series is the empowerment of women. You think that Clem would allow herself to be dominated by a man? Or that Christa and Omid's relationship functioned like that?
Although I disagree with your opinion I respect it and I like the fact that you shared it in a respectful manner. But there is one thing you said that makes me curious:
Does that mean that if you had a daughter and she aspired to work in the police for example you wouldn't let her ? Even is it was what she wanted to do the most and was one of her biggest dreams ? Would you explain to her that because she was born a woman instead of a man there are certain things that she shouldn't be doing ?
Bleh.
I'll try to be as polite as possible.
Are you basically saying that women should be submissive to men? And that gender equality is a bad thing?
When men make a decision, their wives have to support them. But when women make a decision, their husbands have the right to ''forbid'' them. Do you even understand what you're saying here?
I'm sorry Kenny/Lee, I do respect your opinion, but you shouldn't hide yourself behind religion and 'traditional values' in order to justify sexism. Women fought for gender equality. Women in 3rd world countries are still fighthing for equality and then you come up with this regressive thinking. I couldn't disagree more with you.
I think leadership roles should be filled by whoever is most capable. After all, with any king of structure or set of rules, you'd want the best results. So it makes sense to put whoever can most effectively lead in a leadership role. Same with jobs. When it comes to emergency services like police and firefighters, services which can and have saved countless lives, then we need to put the most capable people in those roles.
I'll finish with this: I have NO problem with women in leadership roles or in traditionally 'manly' jobs. But if women want equal rights and opportunities, then they should be held up to the same standards. If men can't hit women, then women shouldn't be allowed to hit men. If male rapists go to jail, then so should female rapists. If a woman wants the same pay as a man, then she should have to do the same amount of work as a man. If women want equality, then they have to take all of it, not just the stuff that appeals to them.
Superiority has gotten the best of humans. If there ever was going to be full equality, it's far from now.