The "It doesn't has to be so friggin' compressed" petion

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  • edited July 2009
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    Even if they increased it to a 700MB size game, you would all STILL be bitching!
    No I wouldn't
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    Because they would still need to employ some compression to keep the game at even THAT file size. And lets face it, no compression is truly "loss-less" so you all would still be here.
    Maybe 1% of the complainers would be but the other 99% (including me) would be happy with the quality.
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    Not to mention covering their increased bandwidth and equipment costs... that would undoubtedly raise the prices of their games... then you would all be here bitching about how the episodes are too short to be paying 60$ for a season...
    This has been said 100x times allready but if they if it really comes down to bandwidth costs, just release it as a torrent, I would be more than happy to seed it for other people absolutely free
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    Get my point?
    Yeah I got the point, you seem to exaggerate alot and dont know alot about audio compression
  • edited July 2009
    Laffer wrote: »
    No I wouldn't


    This has been said 100x times allready but if they if it really comes down to bandwidth costs, just release it as a torrent, I would be more than happy to seed it for other people absolutely free


    Yeah I got the point, you seem to exaggerate alot and dont know alot about audio compression



    #1 read my post above yours... yep, I know so little about sound compression that I even told telltale what their games would need to sound good.

    #2 torrents? for a corporation? are you serious? ... I don't say this much, but srsly, GTFO
  • edited July 2009
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    The verdict? I have never ONCE heard ANY sort of artifacting, scratching, etc. (Some bad echoing and changing room tone in the past, but none of it was in MI). And trust me, if any system would pick up any sort of problems in the audio files themselves, this system would.

    So I say, rather than beat a dead horse, why not solve the ACTUAL problem... which is YOUR speaker system.
    So first you say the sound is fine and its our sound systems that need a fix

    Dangerzone wrote: »
    Bottom line, that is still kinda big... yes, I do hear the compression at times when I play with headphones ... but no, it does not bother me any other time.
    And now you can hear them suddenly? :D
  • edited July 2009
    Indeed... now that threads like this cause me to pay attention to them... but they are easily concealed by a few tweaks.

    Although on my surround sound or pc speakers, I never hear anything... only on my headphones.

    I think its cause my other speakers have a wider range that makes almost anything sound good
  • edited July 2009
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    #2 torrents? for a corporation? are you serious? ... I don't say this much, but srsly, GTFO

    Ever heard of company like Blizzard Entertainment, they don't have a problem using a torrent system and there are plenty of other bigger companies that are larger and use the system so I don't see a reason why telltalecouldn't use it, afterall it isn't just for downloading illegal stuff. So I hardly see a point in your "gtfo" comment.
  • edited July 2009
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    I think its cause my other speakers have a wider range that makes almost anything sound good

    Actually the better speakers/headphones you use to listen to the sounds the problem becomes more clear.

    A) Your speakers aren't that good
    B) The compressed voices don't sound so bad when using speakers since there allways is some ambient (background) noise that can hide some artifacts, unless you live in a totally sound isolated room.
  • edited July 2009
    Yeah the quality does suck in certain situations, and I might notice it more if I ever blasted my speakers to reveal the artifacts on purpose, but I don't... And who cares anyway? These are episodic games... meant for a few hours of fun and then to be cast away.

    It's like television... T.V. series always have lower production costs then big movies... this is like monkey island the T.V. series after a bunch of movies back in the day.

    You just enjoy the story, puzzles, and spirit of the game for what it is and look past its flaws...
  • edited July 2009
    After saying all that, atleast TOMI sounds better than for example Strong Bad, so the direction is right (and hopefully improves in future episodes and other games). :)
  • edited July 2009
    They always do make little changes with each series... but never anything ground breaking.
  • edited July 2009
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    No, right now they use a 128 ogg vorbis compression,.

    Forgot to ask, where did this information come from, I find it hard to believe... actually impossible since the sound files are that small that they currently can't use 128kbs, more like 32-64kbs.
  • edited July 2009
    I have a .ttarch decompressor a friend made... I use it to help me play and identify lines of dialogue which I have not heard (it helps immeasurably in my "play it again" lists)

    Also, think I must have been confusing my numbers :o with something else I was working on

    I have not had the time to dig into tales yet... but all their previous games actually ran at 48Kbps over one channel

    my 3 channel @196 suggestion still holds as what the game SHOULD have if it were a big deal, but it really isn't.
  • edited July 2009
    Laffer wrote: »
    You don't have to open this thread if it bothers you, just ignore it like the sound problems.

    What fricking sound problems? I haven't heard anything that sounds even remotely wrong. And I have cheap speakers!
    Ash735 wrote: »
    DangerZone, you should actually learn how Audio Coding works before you lose your lid over the subject. The Voices in Episode 1 only take up 30.7MB of Space, even doubling the bitrate and giving the files more leanway means the maximum that file will be is 61.4MB and that's if every single line requires the double bitrate.

    And you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. As I remind and continue to remind fellow fans, we've been waiting almost a decade for more Monkey Island. After adventure games died, who here expected there to be another Monkey Island before 2015? Now that it's here and dreams are realized, what do we do? "It's not enough." "It could be better." "The game was way too easy." "It lacks this, this, and this." "You have ruined Monkey Island." "Sam&Max + Monkey Island is pretty much ruined for me." "I wouldn't play this game if it was for free!" "In most cases Guybrush doesn't say what I want him to say."you have taken one of my absolute favorite elements of the Monkey Island series and made it a cosmetic gimmick that serves no purpose." "We do NOT want 3d graphics and new and "fun" ways to handle a puzzlegame." And then there's people like this article here: http://continueonline.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/a-series-of-series-ahoy-matey-problems-ahead/#more-678

    As someone said in another complaint forum:

    "I just wish some of these people whining over extremely trivial things think about the people who can't play the game, for whatever reason.

    I've been looking forward to a new Monkey Island game for YEARS, I know I'm going to love it no matter what. If you're disappointed, your standards are too high. It's just a game. There are not many games I've played that I haven't liked, and I've played a good number. Just sit back and enjoy it.
    "

    Need I go on?
  • edited July 2009
    thatdude98 wrote: »
    And you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. As I remind and continue to remind fellow fans, we've been waiting almost a decade for more Monkey Island. After adventure games died, who here expected there to be another Monkey Island before 2015? Now that it's here and dreams are realized, what do we do? "It's not enough." "It could be better." "The game was way too easy." "It lacks this, this, and this." "You have ruined Monkey Island." "Sam&Max + Monkey Island is pretty much ruined for me." "I wouldn't play this game if it was for free!" "In most cases Guybrush doesn't say what I want him to say."you have taken one of my absolute favorite elements of the Monkey Island series and made it a cosmetic gimmick that serves no purpose." "We do NOT want 3d graphics and new and "fun" ways to handle a puzzlegame." And then there's people like this article here: http://continueonline.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/a-series-of-series-ahoy-matey-problems-ahead/#more-678

    As someone said in another complaint forum:

    "I just wish some of these people whining over extremely trivial things think about the people who can't play the game, for whatever reason.

    I've been looking forward to a new Monkey Island game for YEARS, I know I'm going to love it no matter what. If you're disappointed, your standards are too high. It's just a game. There are not many games I've played that I haven't liked, and I've played a good number. Just sit back and enjoy it.
    "

    Need I go on?

    Oh believe me I'm really happy for more Monkey Island and TellTale have done a great job with it, it's just the sound issues that throw me, people like Dangerzone are throwing this issue into complete overdrive when really it isn't a big thing to increase the quality, I at least hope the DVD version has better sound quality but from what I've heard, TellTale don't do that. Which disapoints me because they've got a great cast and score being damaged by slight compression when another game, Monkey Island SE goes all out and doesn't even use any compression for the voices and it's done them no harm (even though Lossless would of been nice). I like that Monkey Island is back, I really do but I'd love it if TellTale just increased the sound quality slightly.
  • edited July 2009
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    ..And who cares anyway? These are episodic games... meant for a few hours of fun and then to be cast away.

    It's like television... T.V. series always have lower production costs then big movies... this is like monkey island the T.V. series after a bunch of movies back in the day.

    Wow.. I, for one, don't see it this way. ToMI for me, is the next official installment of the series, divided in chapters, JUST like the previous ones!
    Its no spin-off, no TV show based on the movie, and so on, it IS MI5..

    When I created this thread, I was under the presumption that critical fan based opinions, good and bad, were allowed in this forum.. There are certain users in this thread who obviously thinks otherwise.
    Now, is it wrong to have an opinion, as a fan, stating that it deserves a better sound quality? I mean, come on!! Let's try to discuss this rationally, and don't behave as if I've shot a nun's chiuwawa.

    On a sidenote;
    As a fellow LOST fan, I certainly expected higher views on the quality of television productions, Dangerzone. ;)
  • edited July 2009
    Laffer wrote: »
    Ever heard of company like Blizzard Entertainment
    Yes. I even use their torrents and they are shit.
    It takes forever to download files with the Blizzard-Torrents. It's really horrible.

    I don't want to wait longer for my game just because the file is bigger and noone is sharing. Who would share the Bone-games today? It's not about now it's also about the future.
  • edited July 2009
    thatdude98 wrote: »
    What fricking sound problems? I haven't heard anything that sounds even remotely wrong. And I have cheap speakers!

    --
    As someone said in another complaint forum:

    "I just wish some of these people whining over extremely trivial things think about the people who can't play the game, for whatever reason.

    I've been looking forward to a new Monkey Island game for YEARS, I know I'm going to love it no matter what. If you're disappointed, your standards are too high. It's just a game. There are not many games I've played that I haven't liked, and I've played a good number. Just sit back and enjoy it.
    "

    Need I go on?

    Heh that was me *high fives*

    Meh I've been lurking in this topic for a while, I'm trying to understand the point of it.

    On one side we've got people who don't care that fellow fans wouldn't be able to download this game just for the sake of better sound. Secret killed my download cap, now I'm stuck with extra slow internet until early August (ah just in time for Tales part 2, *rolls eyes*), Tales I was playing within 15 minutes after starting download, Secret took me 7 HOURS. It's all well and good that you guys have extra fast download, don't ruin it for those who don't. We're all fans here, don't screw the less fortunate ones around.

    And DON'T SAY "oh well you can just wait for the dvd or do without". You are the ones complaining, not us. Why should we have to wait cos you're not happy with the sound quality.

    On the other we've got the people who WEREN'T complaining and were perfectly happy with the game and it's download size. Everyone (except poor 56kers, *groan* it wasn't long ago since I was one of them) could play the latest games from their favourite gaming series, but then see a topic about people with 10mb speeds and no download cap whinging that their huge surround sound speakers hear a slight crackle. They demand something like a 2gb download, which is just going to narrow down the potential buyers. Not everyone can download that much. Selfish is what it is.

    The only fair way to do it is the following.
    1) Keep it the way it is. The complainers can be the ones to wait for the dvd if it bothers them this much. Fair's fair.

    2) Have two download options. One for the utterly pointless uncompressed game, and the regular -200mb one.

    Yes?

    We all have the right to leave some criticism, have our own opinions. Thing is, this topic is getting ridiculous. It's about one selfish side trying to take away a game for the less fortunate side, just for a small tiny issue like this. I'm sorry, I've read this topic many times and that's all I can say. You guys are selfish. I've been a fan of Monkey Island since I was about 6 years old (91), why should I and fellow fans miss out cos you're not happy with something so trivial. Think about what you're demanding, and the consequences.
  • edited July 2009
    der_ketzer wrote: »
    Yes. I even use their torrents and they are shit.
    It takes forever to download files with the Blizzard-Torrents. It's really horrible.

    1. No actually the torrent system is fine, Blizzards background downloader seems to be the "problem", if you manually open that torrent file with your own client software instead of using blizzards own you can download the file extremely fast. Actually I think that the software throttles back the speed before the patch is released so they don't jam the lines completely. When the patch day arrives, I've had no issues with their own downloader either.

    Heck I'll rather wait 8 hours for a download to finish if I get that better quality version. If i've waited for years for a new Monkey game, I sure can wait for few more hours to get a better experience out from it.


    2. And unless a member from telltale says that they have bandwidth issues, I just won't believe that argument. They seem to have no problem that I can download their games 10x times from their site, I mean if they where really worried about bandwidth costs, would TTG allow me to download their games over and over again withouth restrictions?

    So I can download 180mb Episode1 5 times if I like but they can't add 30mb of audio data because the bandwidth costs are so bad? :D
  • edited July 2009
    Well, I happen to have 1MB per second Cable being right near our local office, so i can download GB's in a matter of minutes... And it's a stable connection, so I am pretty blessed.

    But when you consider that pretty much anyone outside the US has net download caps per month... and that many in Europe are still are using unreliable DSL and 56K connections... (some places don't even have internet during certain hours of the day to save energy)

    Then the world of people who cannot "afford" larger downloads becomes quite large... why punish them with hours/days more download time just cause you cant stand some scratching and popping?

    Simple solution... simple to do, and would shut everyone up... Email telltale and suggest that they should have an option in the installer for higher resolution audio... selecting this option downloads an alternate file from the telltale server, otherwise the game just installs the default smaller version which would be downloaded with the game itself.

    Simple enough? sure... will telltale do it? probably not...
  • edited July 2009
    Laffer wrote: »
    Forgot to ask, where did this information come from, I find it hard to believe... actually impossible since the sound files are that small that they currently can't use 128kbs, more like 32-64kbs.

    The 'Portions copyright Jean-Marc Valin' credit suggests that the Speex codec is used. Ogg is the container format, Vorbis is the music codec.

    I'm not going to comment further on the encoder's settings as I don't know what the bitrate actually is, but note that Speex is documented to go from 2.15 to 44 kbps. If anything is reporting 128 kbps, it's probably some field of the Ogg format filled in erroneously, or defaulted in the player, but that doesn't actually affect the decoding.

    2 hours at 44kbps would be 40MB. The voice.ttarch file is 30MB, but I'm not sure there's 2 hours of audio in the game.
  • edited July 2009
    I like how we're being looked down upon by certain members for wanting something in better quality. Look, the downloads can remain at this quality for all I care as long as we get a confirmation that the DVD's will be using Higher Bitrate Archives, that's all I want, I'm happy to play the games bit by bit now but when I have it on Disc, I want better quality Audio so I can play all 5 Chapters in a row too. Having the downloads with better audio quality would be a nice option but it seems if the download goes over 200MB then a lot of people will bitch about the size. So can we at least get higher quality on the DVD's?
  • edited July 2009
    Someone else may have brought this up before but I'll say it anyway.

    Higher quality would be nice, but 200MBs is plenty to have to download, I'm coming from a point of view where even if all the episodes remain 200MBs, it's still going to cost me a third of the game price in ISP costs to download them. If the episodes were twice the size or more I would be crying.

    But, I think sticking higher quality games on the DVDs would be O.K!
  • edited August 2009
    bump

    *evil laughter* :D
  • edited August 2009
    You guys in the UK and US are very very lucky - you don't have internet caps - yet. In my country we are severely capped - and I simply won't be able to afford to download a 1Gb file - I would be forced to buy a packaged version of the game, if Telltale ever release as such.
  • edited August 2009
    For a 200Mb file I think Telltale has done a great job with the graphics.
  • edited August 2009
    manicm wrote: »
    and I simply won't be able to afford to download a 1Gb file - I would be forced to buy a packaged version of the game, if Telltale ever release as such.

    Would you be able to download 50mb bigger episode?
  • edited August 2009
    A HQ sound pack would be enough, and it's not going to confuse anyone. No-one is going to be confused by seeing a "Download optional high quality voice pack" link, and it would keep sizes down. A HQ texture pack would be nice (and probably quite possible, as one assumes they paint their textures at a higher res then shrink them, like every other company), but possibly harder to actually put in place. A voice pack should be extremely simple though.
  • edited August 2009
    A HQ sound pack would be enough, and it's not going to confuse anyone. No-one is going to be confused by seeing a "Download optional high quality voice pack" link, and it would keep sizes down. A HQ texture pack would be nice (and probably quite possible, as one assumes they paint their textures at a higher res then shrink them, like every other company), but possibly harder to actually put in place. A voice pack should be extremely simple though.
    I agree, HQ packs would be the best solution.
  • edited August 2009
    BlueToxic wrote: »
    I agree, HQ packs would be the best solution.

    Thirded. It seems that's a solution that should please everyone. And yes, I think we're all savvy enough to understand a "download high quality speech pack" link.
  • edited August 2009
    I'm also positive that a HQ voice pack wouldn't require any support. Alternatively, it could be made clear that the HQ pack is unsupported. We're smart enough on these forums to work it out for ourselves and help those who can't.
  • edited August 2009
    Well, if it IS the cause of the reusing of models, that's a crappy reason to have only 1 fat guy and 1 skinny guy playing multiple roles. Is that why there's hardly any facial expression with the characters too?

    The eyes always have a vacant look, the eyebrows hardly ever move - it's just a bunch of reused animations e.g. the slight head wiggle...

    I went back to MI4 today, and EVERY SINGLE piece of dialogue was accompanied by uniquely classic and over-the-top expressions which, to me, MADE that game. In Tales, I couldn't care less for the characters, because they have no...character. Please someone get Telltale on the blower and tell them to put a bit more effort in.
  • edited August 2009
    The solution is obvious: have two versions availiable. One could be for customers with bandwidth limits and one could be the uncompressed version. They do this alot on video websites with "HD" and "regular" versions. The sound quality on this ep is really terrible and it deserves better. I actually quit playing to search for a solution to the audio problem. Is that what you want your customers to do?
  • edited August 2009
    Signed. The option for less compressed audio has been an issue with telltale games ever since Sybil's screeching voice. You can make a 'check for directx' option in the installer, why not a 'download higher quality voice audio' option?

    And since the demos can be and are hosted elsewhere as well, bandwidth isn't an issue.
  • edited August 2009
    I can't believe this thread, having been dead for weeks, has resurfaced again.
  • edited August 2009
    the issue is just more noticeable in e2. I didn't mind the quality in e1 either, but some scenes in e2 where just ... irritating.
  • edited August 2009
    hope ttg is reeeeeeaaaaaaaaading

    WE WANT HQ PACKS!
  • edited August 2009
    I'd also like it, if there was such a possibility. Though, I can't guess how would this impact the developing complexity of each game.
  • edited August 2009
    I have to agree, it's tolerable, but it'd be nice to get a "high quality" version that had better voice compression, so if I want to ever do this series 'movie style' I can and enjoy the brilliant voice acting.
  • edited August 2009
    I've been playing the episodes with the sound through my KOSS UR-40s (which aren't top of the line... but are great stereo-phones for the low-budget listener) and I've only just now (With ToMI: SoSC) experienced the compression issues, it's pretty bad with Elaine epically.

    I'd love HQ versions on the DVD... it shouldn't be a space issue since DVDs can hold a lot. asuming just half of the space is given to the games that's still about 4 GB leaving 4-5 gigs for features...
  • edited August 2009
    I noticed the sound compression, too. EMI had the same problem, and this seems to be the only issue that I had with EMI that has carried over into TMI. I doubt they would release HQ sound packs, because that would be admitting that there is low-quality sound in the game, and they probably don't want to give that impression. Higher quality sound on the DVD is something they should do, however, along with bug fixes (some have been spotted) and maybe a graphical boost. From what I've read, the game has sold well enough for them that I think warrants them giving it this extra bit of attention.
  • edited August 2009
    the issue is just more noticeable in e2. I didn't mind the quality in e1 either, but some scenes in e2 where just ... irritating.

    same here! i second that!
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